Help, plants are getting sick (pics)

[Magoo2003]

I have 2 White widows in soil. I used some cheap soil with nothing special in it. 80% soil, 20% perlite. the pots are approx 2 gallons. PLastic pots, good drainage, so good i must always dump out extra drainage.

-2 tablespoons of fox farm "american" red bag are in the soil too
-Im useing botanicareGro and superthrive- 15mlGro/gallon and .75 ml ST/gallon-6.7-6.8PH when watering-I diluted this 2 days ago when i began noticing the problem to half 7.5mlGro/.35mlST
-I use distilled water gallons
-I water when i feel the top of the soil of no longer damp. (not wet but damp) should i wait longer?
-Ambient temp in there is 75-76F
-They are under 400w HPS about 3-3.5 feet away from it
-They are approx 7in tall
-18/6 light scheudle
-CO2- 10 times a day for 15 min does not start untill 2 hours after light is on, and not in the last hour of light on. I release at .7CFH
-They are in a small cabnit i built. Approx demensions are 6 feet tall, than like 3.2-2.2ish its a rectangular shape. not much space but good for 2 plants.
-2 ventalation fans- one is 6 inch pulls out all the heat right by the 400W, and the other is small- really small but is in ceiling to help.


I got these 2 as clones from my friend because my others i had hydroponically were not working out. Anyway ive included some pics of them. Some of the leaves are droopy but others are not. A few leaves have discoloring that you can see. The new growth doesnt really look too bad yet but as they get bigger the leaves start showing these colorings. Thanks for any help in advance, and let me know if i can provide more information. Did i underwater, overwater? overnute? all of the above lol? They are still growing raapidly though. New leaves every 24 hours from mini to almost full size.

[Mr. Clandestine]

Is there any reason you can't use your home tap water? You generally won't need to supplement Calcium or Magnesium when you're able to use water from the faucet. But if you're going to continue to use distilled water over tap water, you'll need to add CalMag Plus. Your plants aren't getting either of these elements from the distilled water, and those are two elements that are vital for healthy growth.

You should also test the pH of the runoff, so you'll know the pH of your soil. If the pH gets too out of whack, it can lockout vital nutrients. Though, I'm almost positive your problem is the lack of Ca and Mg.

Take care. :jointsmile:

[phatsesh101]

Diagnosing and Managing Plant Problems (http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/mastergd/slides/chapter4/TMG4_cvr.htm)

[stinkyattic]

Not sure about the 'red bag' but you added concentrated fert to the soil? Potentially problematic
If you use distilled water, you MUST add calmag plus.
Built-in drip trays can lead to soggy, anaerobic conditions in the lower part of the pot. Best to remove those.
Check pH of runoff. Without minerals from tap water, there's much less buffering and you can see pH drop off fast.

[Magoo2003]

Thanks for the help. I use distilled water because i didnt know any better, now i will use tap water :). I thought that distilled or some sort of filtration was needed for water to be used. So i gave them some tap water today with no nuts in it. That should start to help right?

I will start useing tap water from now on. So its completly safe right? anything to worry about with tap water?

I will change the drip trays to bigger plastic ones.

What is the correct PH for the runoff? same as PH i put into it like 6.2-6.8? I will check that tonight. Thanks again for all the help, this is my first time to try soil.

[Magoo2003]

I just tryed to "ph" the soil. i did the following

I used tap water-PH-12.2 (i think this part i did wrong, should i use lower ph water?)

emptied the drip trays first than watered, let drip for a few seconds than measured PH with digital hanna. it came out to 11.3 for both.

How badly did i mess this up? thanks :stoned:

[daihashi]

your ph was 12.2?

Are you sure?

I accidentally ph up'd some water today to 10.5 and it smelled like chlorine.

I would think tap water with that high of a ph would smell and taste very bad.

Is there an odor or VERY bad taste to your water?

and yes, you want to lower the ph of your tap water to 6.8 or so, but more so if your ph is so high I wonder what your ppm is.

I would say keep using distilled or RO water and just add calmag. Something is up there.

[Magoo2003]

my tap water smells a little like chlorine, but i dont really see anything in it and the smell is very lite. I have a PPM meter so i got some new tap water and tested it. tasted it( i dont usually drink it) doesnt tast great to me, but my gf says it just tastes like tap water.

PPM= 610
PH=12.3 this time only .1 up

so i should get some tap water PH it to 6.8 than pour into pots and PH the runoff? that is the correct way? and what PH is a target PH for that 6.2-6.8?

thanks for all the help guys

[Mr. Clandestine]

Did you calibrate the pH pen you used? I don't have a digital pen, but I know that many of them have to be calibrated using a solution with a neutral pH of 7. If it hadn't been calibrated, that's probably the reason you got such a high reading on both. If you're unable to get the calibration fluid right away, maybe think about picking up an aquarium liquid test kit, and using that on your tap water. If you're still getting a reading in the 12s, you'll definitely want to stick with the distilled water/CalMag. 12.2 is really high, so double check to make sure it's not your pH pen that's off the mark.

Edit: 6.6-6.8 is pretty ideal pH conditions for soil based mediums.

[daihashi]

Did you calibrate the pH pen you used? I don't have a digital pen, but I know that many of them have to be calibrated using a solution with a neutral pH of 7.

Is that right? My oakton came pre-calibrated from the factory. My hydro shop guy told me not to bother. Just incase I bought the calibration solution and tested it out. Came out at 7.0 exactly.

Do you know if this is just something that manufacturers do if they feel like and some manufacturers dont?

[stinkyattic]

Lots of pH meters need calibration. In fact, most do. You'll want to follow the manufacturer's instructions with fresh pH buffer solutions (typically a 4.01 and a 7.0), plus a check solution if you have one available.
12.1 sounds very unlikely; if it IS 12.1, you need to call the city sewer&water utility and let them know that they SUCK at their jobs, lol. More likely is that your pH meter is off. It's not a Hanna perchance... ?

[Magoo2003]

it is a hanna(is that bad?)- i calaberated it useing a freinds. but it has been a while so i will double check it. I do live in the middle of no where so maybe we have dirtier water?

It seems to work well. I add PH down and the PH goes down so it works but maybe its off ill look into that i guess.

What about Fiji water just wondering.(at least untill i can get calmag next week or permanantly?)..i happened to drink some today and the specs on the back say

typical analysis in mg/liter
Silica- 85
calcium- 17
Magnesium- 13
PH-7.5
Bicarbonattes-140
Total dissolced solids- 210

[Rusty Trichome]

I have calibration liquid, but still do a side-by-side comparison with my old stand-by...the (liquid) aquarium water ph test kit. ($6.00) I test the water with my ph pen, then test same sample of water with the test kit. Gives a good idea how close your pen really is. :thumbsup:

I just checked...drain opener has a ph of 12.
Household bleach is a 12.5
Baking soda, 8.4

The MSDS HyperGlossary: pH (http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/ph.html)

A ph of 12 just doesn't seem likely, tho. Even a high-range ph test kit for saltwater aquariums only goes up-to 9.5 or 10.
If your city water is 12, call a lawyer. If you have your own well, and it's at 12...you'll want to look elsewhere for your water.

[stinkyattic]

Hannas aren't known for reliability. One of these days that company is gonna sue my ass, lol...
Liquid testers are accurate and reliable. They don't read to like 2 decimal places, but this isn't an exact science! As long as you can tell it's in range you're fine.
Bottled drinking water is not good for plants. I bet your tap water isn't NEARLY as bad as you think it is. Grab a $10 liquid test kit from the aquarium supply shop and see what the real numbers are.