Geert Wilders' Islamophobic documentary suffers a new set back

[McLeodGanja]

For apparently breaching guidelines on hate language.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Dutch Islam film website 'shut' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7310439.stm)

A website that a Dutch right-wing politician was planning to use to release a film expected to be fiercely critical of Islam has been suspended.

The US hosting service, Network Solutions, said it was investigating complaints that it may have breached guidelines on hate language.

Dutch politician Geert Wilders says the 15-minute film describes Islam as "the enemy of freedom".

The planned release has sparked angry protests in many Muslim countries.

The Dutch government has disassociated itself from Mr Wilders' views, but there are fears the film will spark protests similar to those that followed the publication in Denmark two years ago of cartoons seen as offensive to Muslims.

[BobBong]

Good.

I think this is one of the dumbest ideas so far this century...:wtf:

[zeitgeist]

Good they shut down this retard. The last thing we need is more people thinking this rediculous propoganda

[Breukelen advocaat]

If you hate freedom, Islam is right up your alley.

Islam is the Enemy of Freedom

Tuesday, 20 November 2007

A great irony of the age is that the seemingly most diehard proponents of freedomâ?? the useful idiots (http://www.amilimani.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=2%20%20%20)of our timeâ??are the most dangerous unwitting accomplices of libertyâ??s enemyâ??Islam. Keep in mind that the very name â??Islamâ?� is a derivation of â??taslim,â?� the Arabic word for â??surrender,â?� surrender to the will and dictates of Allah as revealed by Muhammad and recorded in the Quran.

This non-negotiable surrender to Islam requires the individual as well as the society to disenfranchise themselves of many of the fundamental and deeply cherished human rights.

Below is a brief presentation of what this surrender to Islam entails and why it is imperative that all freedom-loving people arise and defeat the menace of Islamofascism.

Amendment I of the Bill of Rights enshrines some of the most cherished ideals of freedom-loving people:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Islam considers itself the three branches of government. It enacts laws as it sees fit, adjudicates laws, and executes as it deems. Islam is anathema to the provisions of the First Amendment and much more.

* Islam proclaims itself as the only legitimate religion for the entire world, grudgingly granting minor recognition to Judaism and Christianity from whom it has liberally plagiarized many of its dogma. Jews and Christians are allowed to live under the rule of Islam as dhimmis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi) and must pay a special religious tax of jazyyeh. Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Bahaâ??is, members of other religions, agnostics, or atheists are not even allowed to live practicing their belief or disbelief.

* Islam actively suppresses and even prohibits the practice of other religions, including those of the â??people of the book,â?� Jews and Christians. There is not a single church or synagogue in the cradle of Islam, Saudi Arabia, while thousands of mosques dot the tolerating and welcoming non-Moslem lands. Islamic countries that allow for Jewish and Christian places of worship subject these â??people of the bookâ?� to numberless subtle and not-so-subtle forms of persecution. Moslems in non-Moslem lands proselytize relentlessly and convert others while any Moslem who leaves Islam is judged as apostate and automatically condemned to death.

* Freedom of speech is just about non-existent in Islam. The word is Allahâ??s, his chosen divines such as Ayatollahs and Imams are the only ones who are to make pronouncements squarely-based on Allahâ??s word, the Quran. Any expression in the least at deviance from the Quran, the Hadith and the edicts of Islamic high divines is heresy and severely punishable. Hence, stifling of free expression is the major mechanism by which the Islamic clergy retain power and prevent constructive change in Islamic societies.

* Freedom of the press is completely alien to Islam, since a free press tends to express matters as it sees it, rather than as it is stated in the Quran. To Islam, the Quran is the press and the only press. There is no need for critical reporting, no need to present ideas that may conflict with the Quran, and no place for criticism of anything Islamic. The stranglehold of Islam on the individual and society is complete.

* Peaceful assembly of the people is not allowed. The backward oppressive Islamic societies inflict great hardship on the citizenry and any assembly of the victims presents a threat to the suffocating rule. Islamic governments routinely prevent peaceful assemblies from taking place. Failing to do so, they unleash their hired thugs, the police and even the military against any assemblage no matter how peaceful and how legitimate is its grievance. The Islamic Republic of Iran which is vying with Saudi Arabia as the leader of true Islamic rule, routinely attacks any and all gatherings of its people, arrests them, imprisons them without due process, tortures them, and even executes them in secret dungeons. Journalists, academics, unionists, students, teachers, women rights groups who dare to petition the government for redress are labeled subversive and are severely punished.

* Maltreatment of religious minorities and the non-religious is criminal indeed. In the Islamic Republic of Iran, for instance, the government has launched a systematic program of genocide against its largest religious minorityâ??the Bahaâ??is. The government is gathering a comprehensive list of Bahaâ??is, their occupations, locations, properties and the likeâ??action reminiscent of the Nazis. The government is banning Bahaâ??i students from post high-school education unless they recant their religion, deprives them of engaging in numerous forms of occupations and trades, denies them from holding worship gatherings, razes their holy places and much more. The Islamic Republic of Iran is not satisfied with its cruel treatment of the living Bahaâ??is and has launched a war on their dead by bulldozing Bahaâ??i cemeteries in several cities. Thus is the rule of fundamental Islamism that is awaiting the complacent and snoozing world.

* Oppression of women in general is tragic indeed. Men are allowed to have as many as four wives simultaneously and as many concubines as they wish or can afford. Men can easily divorce their wives and automatically have the custody of the children, if they so decide. Women have subservient status to men in all areas of the law. Equality under the law has no meaning in Islam. Just one example of the dreadful way of treating women in Islam is a case of a Saudi woman who was gang-raped. The Islamic court convicted the woman to prison term and lashes for having committed the â??sinâ?� of riding in a car with a male who was not her relative. This is a standard form of Islamic Shariah justiceâ??a savage heritage of barbarism that ruled the Arabian Peninsula some centuries ago.

* Islam has a solution for every â??problem.â?� It deals with homosexuals, for instance, by hanging them en mass and gloating about it, even though homosexuality is just as prevalent in Islamic lands as anywhere else. Recently an Ayatollah made a ruling on homosexuals. He said that they should be tortured before they are hanged. In Islam the rulings of high-ranking clergy constitute the law and are binding.

* Not only Islam does not allow freedom of assembly and the press, it is intrusively restrictive in every aspects of a personâ??s life. The way women should dress, the haircut of men, the music people are allowed, movies to watch, television programs to view, and even parties in the privacy of their home are subject to the ridiculous monitoring of moral police. Islam is hell-bent on outward morality and puritanical conduct while it is rotten to the core just below the pretentious surface.

* Islam segregates by gender many public places and events such as beaches, sporting venues, public transportations, and even building elevators. Families are often prevented from attending a sporting event together or swimming together at a beach.

* Egypt, the crown of the Arab-Islam world, demands that citizens declare Islam or only one of the two other religions, Jewish and Christianity, as their religion in order to receive the government-issued identity cards. ID cards are required for jobs, healthcare, education, a marriage license and a host of other things. If you are an agnostic, an atheist, a Buddhist, a Hindu, a Bahaâ??i, you are forced to perjure yourself to receive the indispensable ID card. In a real sense, Islam the pretender of high moral ground compels people to lie in order to receive what is their birthright as citizens.

I have been sounding the alarm about Islamâ??s imminent deadly threat for a number of years. The Islamic treasury flush with oil extortion money together with the help of useful idiots is having the upper hand in this battle of survival for freedom. The slaveholder Islam has been transformed into a more virulent form of Islamofascism; it is an inveterate unrelenting enemy of freedom. We need to act now and stem the tide of this deadly threat. Tomorrow may be too late. Freedom is too precious to abandon through complacency, acts of political correctness, or outright cowardice.

Amil Imani - Islam is the Enemy of Freedom (http://www.amilimani.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=84&Itemid=2)

[BobBong]

If you hate freedom, Islam is right up your alley.

Islam is the Enemy of Freedom

Tuesday, 20 November 2007

A great irony of the age is that the seemingly most diehard proponents of freedomâ?? the useful idiots (http://www.amilimani.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=2%20%20%20)of our timeâ??are the most dangerous unwitting accomplices of libertyâ??s enemyâ??Islam. Keep in mind that the very name â??Islamâ?� is a derivation of â??taslim,â?� the Arabic word for â??surrender,â?� surrender to the will and dictates of Allah as revealed by Muhammad and recorded in the Quran.

This non-negotiable surrender to Islam requires the individual as well as the society to disenfranchise themselves of many of the fundamental and deeply cherished human rights.

Below is a brief presentation of what this surrender to Islam entails and why it is imperative that all freedom-loving people arise and defeat the menace of Islamofascism.

Amendment I of the Bill of Rights enshrines some of the most cherished ideals of freedom-loving people:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Islam considers itself the three branches of government. It enacts laws as it sees fit, adjudicates laws, and executes as it deems. Islam is anathema to the provisions of the First Amendment and much more.

* Islam proclaims itself as the only legitimate religion for the entire world, grudgingly granting minor recognition to Judaism and Christianity from whom it has liberally plagiarized many of its dogma. Jews and Christians are allowed to live under the rule of Islam as dhimmis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi) and must pay a special religious tax of jazyyeh. Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Bahaâ??is, members of other religions, agnostics, or atheists are not even allowed to live practicing their belief or disbelief.

* Islam actively suppresses and even prohibits the practice of other religions, including those of the â??people of the book,â?� Jews and Christians. There is not a single church or synagogue in the cradle of Islam, Saudi Arabia, while thousands of mosques dot the tolerating and welcoming non-Moslem lands. Islamic countries that allow for Jewish and Christian places of worship subject these â??people of the bookâ?� to numberless subtle and not-so-subtle forms of persecution. Moslems in non-Moslem lands proselytize relentlessly and convert others while any Moslem who leaves Islam is judged as apostate and automatically condemned to death.

* Freedom of speech is just about non-existent in Islam. The word is Allahâ??s, his chosen divines such as Ayatollahs and Imams are the only ones who are to make pronouncements squarely-based on Allahâ??s word, the Quran. Any expression in the least at deviance from the Quran, the Hadith and the edicts of Islamic high divines is heresy and severely punishable. Hence, stifling of free expression is the major mechanism by which the Islamic clergy retain power and prevent constructive change in Islamic societies.

* Freedom of the press is completely alien to Islam, since a free press tends to express matters as it sees it, rather than as it is stated in the Quran. To Islam, the Quran is the press and the only press. There is no need for critical reporting, no need to present ideas that may conflict with the Quran, and no place for criticism of anything Islamic. The stranglehold of Islam on the individual and society is complete.

* Peaceful assembly of the people is not allowed. The backward oppressive Islamic societies inflict great hardship on the citizenry and any assembly of the victims presents a threat to the suffocating rule. Islamic governments routinely prevent peaceful assemblies from taking place. Failing to do so, they unleash their hired thugs, the police and even the military against any assemblage no matter how peaceful and how legitimate is its grievance. The Islamic Republic of Iran which is vying with Saudi Arabia as the leader of true Islamic rule, routinely attacks any and all gatherings of its people, arrests them, imprisons them without due process, tortures them, and even executes them in secret dungeons. Journalists, academics, unionists, students, teachers, women rights groups who dare to petition the government for redress are labeled subversive and are severely punished.

* Maltreatment of religious minorities and the non-religious is criminal indeed. In the Islamic Republic of Iran, for instance, the government has launched a systematic program of genocide against its largest religious minorityâ??the Bahaâ??is. The government is gathering a comprehensive list of Bahaâ??is, their occupations, locations, properties and the likeâ??action reminiscent of the Nazis. The government is banning Bahaâ??i students from post high-school education unless they recant their religion, deprives them of engaging in numerous forms of occupations and trades, denies them from holding worship gatherings, razes their holy places and much more. The Islamic Republic of Iran is not satisfied with its cruel treatment of the living Bahaâ??is and has launched a war on their dead by bulldozing Bahaâ??i cemeteries in several cities. Thus is the rule of fundamental Islamism that is awaiting the complacent and snoozing world.

* Oppression of women in general is tragic indeed. Men are allowed to have as many as four wives simultaneously and as many concubines as they wish or can afford. Men can easily divorce their wives and automatically have the custody of the children, if they so decide. Women have subservient status to men in all areas of the law. Equality under the law has no meaning in Islam. Just one example of the dreadful way of treating women in Islam is a case of a Saudi woman who was gang-raped. The Islamic court convicted the woman to prison term and lashes for having committed the â??sinâ?� of riding in a car with a male who was not her relative. This is a standard form of Islamic Shariah justiceâ??a savage heritage of barbarism that ruled the Arabian Peninsula some centuries ago.

* Islam has a solution for every â??problem.â?� It deals with homosexuals, for instance, by hanging them en mass and gloating about it, even though homosexuality is just as prevalent in Islamic lands as anywhere else. Recently an Ayatollah made a ruling on homosexuals. He said that they should be tortured before they are hanged. In Islam the rulings of high-ranking clergy constitute the law and are binding.

* Not only Islam does not allow freedom of assembly and the press, it is intrusively restrictive in every aspects of a personâ??s life. The way women should dress, the haircut of men, the music people are allowed, movies to watch, television programs to view, and even parties in the privacy of their home are subject to the ridiculous monitoring of moral police. Islam is hell-bent on outward morality and puritanical conduct while it is rotten to the core just below the pretentious surface.

* Islam segregates by gender many public places and events such as beaches, sporting venues, public transportations, and even building elevators. Families are often prevented from attending a sporting event together or swimming together at a beach.

* Egypt, the crown of the Arab-Islam world, demands that citizens declare Islam or only one of the two other religions, Jewish and Christianity, as their religion in order to receive the government-issued identity cards. ID cards are required for jobs, healthcare, education, a marriage license and a host of other things. If you are an agnostic, an atheist, a Buddhist, a Hindu, a Bahaâ??i, you are forced to perjure yourself to receive the indispensable ID card. In a real sense, Islam the pretender of high moral ground compels people to lie in order to receive what is their birthright as citizens.

I have been sounding the alarm about Islamâ??s imminent deadly threat for a number of years. The Islamic treasury flush with oil extortion money together with the help of useful idiots is having the upper hand in this battle of survival for freedom. The slaveholder Islam has been transformed into a more virulent form of Islamofascism; it is an inveterate unrelenting enemy of freedom. We need to act now and stem the tide of this deadly threat. Tomorrow may be too late. Freedom is too precious to abandon through complacency, acts of political correctness, or outright cowardice.

Amil Imani - Islam is the Enemy of Freedom (http://www.amilimani.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=84&Itemid=2)

Opinions are one thing but people "preaching" opinions is like pooping in your hand and smearing it someone's face :wtf:

I really hope people rethink this "Islamofascism" crap.

[Breukelen advocaat]

My hope is that people will rethink the political correctness crap.

[Mr. Clandestine]

He'll just broadcast it on another network, or on someone else's server. I think something like 67% of the Dutch want to see the movie, and now they're going to be pissed about another encroachment on their freedom of speech. Does this mean that ALL sites who thoroughly question Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc., etc., etc., should all be banned? Someone somewhere isn't going to agree with the other peoples opinions, especially if they deem it 'hateful', but this has never stopped the haters before. Why now? Because Islam is such a distinctly taboo subject for the entire world? Unless the documentary is overtly hateful, which I really doubt, then I think he should be allowed to publish it. He's doing so at his own risk, anyway. The Netherlands are distancing themselves from Mr. Wilders and his documentary in justified fear of retribution from Islamic countries, fatwas from fanatical Muslims, all-out jihad, etc.

Like I've heard many an atheist say in the past: "If they're secure in their faith, they shouldn't feel threatened by another persons point of view."

[McLeodGanja]

I think what this kind of view point seems to, perhaps rather conveniently, gloss over is that asides from the fact that yes some extremist are using their "faith" as a rationale for violent ends, what is ALSO driving these terrorists to commits acts of atrocity against the west is that the west has pretty much done everything in its power to fuck with many of these Islamic states where they come from! Oh let me think, what could I quote as a recent example... hmmmm oh there's one THE IRAQ INVASION! And guess what Holland, the country which Geert fucking Wilders neo fascist administration currently preside over, were involved in this illegal war which amounts to cultural genocide!

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

FUCK Geert Wilders and his nazi bullshit, I will eat my dal and rice at the mosque in Edinburgh and judge these people on their generosity and kindness and NOT this kind of worthless islamophobic propaganda.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Nobody is forcing anybody to watch it.

It's coming out, one way or another.

Geert Wilders:
"If necessary, I'll go hand out DVDs personally on the Dam," he said, referring to Amsterdam's central square.

[Mr. Clandestine]

FUCK Geert Wilders and his nazi bullshit, I will eat my dal and rice at the mosque in Edinburgh and judge these people on their generosity and kindness and NOT this kind of worthless islamophobic propaganda.

Wilders wasn't going after Muslims themselves, or the heinous acts that many Muslims have justified their hate and rhetoric over, but instead was supposedly raising pertinent questions that he has about the Qu'ran, and Islam in general. Why does this make people so angry to the point of wanting to physically harm him?

I hear people insult my religion and God everyday, but I don't see anyone who shares my faith rushing out to MURDER the person who spoke badly about us. Muslims have stated that Wilders' movie is a direct attack on them as a people, and that these actions justifies them to use violence against him and anyone who backs his sentiments. Now, THAT'S fucked... but, again, this sort of idiocy is overlooked by sympathizers, usually making the claim that it's just a small minority of people who feel this way. Have you seen the protests in the Middle East? Thousands upon thousands of angry screaming Muslims congregated together burning flags, firing rifles into the air, chanting jihadist rhetoric, etc., and ALL just itching to kill someone they deem an 'infidel'.

If Islam really wants to be viewed as this 'religion of peace', then the non-violent Muslims really need to step up and denounce these sorts of actions more fervently. By not doing so, what kind of case are they making for the peaceful nature of their religion?

[McLeodGanja]

There are plenty of no violent muslims speaking out. After 911 happened, the mosque in Edinburgh opened it's doors to everyone to come and eat there, it was a gesture of peace from the musllim people who run this place to everyone else, presumably because they were appalled at the actions by their fellow so called muslims on that day. It has been a resounding success and now you can eat there everyday between 12pm and 7pm, for 3 quid a pop you get a choice of rice, dal, sag aloo, halal meat dishes, salad and nan. The food is also fucking gorgeous, I used to eat there everyday sometimes 2 times when I lived there.

I'm sure there was a cleric also in a highly regarded position who also vociferated his odium towards the extremists.

[Psycho4Bud]

Islam and Free Speech

The Netherlands is bracing for a new round of violence at home and against its embassies in the Middle East. The storm would be caused by "Fitna," a short film that is scheduled to be released this week. The film, which reportedly includes images of a Quran being burned, was produced by Geert Wilders, a member of the Dutch parliament and leader of the Freedom Party. Mr. Wilders has called for banning the Quran -- which he has compared to Hitler's "Mein Kampf" -- from the Netherlands.

After concern about the film led Mr. Wilders's Internet service provider to take down his Web site, Mr. Wilders issued a statement this week that he will personally distribute DVDs "On the Dam" if he has to. That may not be necessary, as the Czech National Party has reportedly agreed to host the video on its Web site.

Reasonable men in free societies regard Geert Wilders's anti-Muslim rhetoric, and films like "Fitna," as disrespectful of the religious sensitivities of members of the Islamic faith. But free societies also hold freedom of speech to be a fundamental human right. We don't silence, jail or kill people with whom we disagree just because their ideas are offensive or disturbing. We believe that when such ideas are openly debated, they sink of their own weight and attract few followers.

Our country allows fringe groups like the American Nazi Party to demonstrate, as long as they are peaceful. Americans are permitted to burn the national flag. In 1989, when so-called artist Andres Serrano displayed his work "Piss Christ" -- a photo of a crucifix immersed in a bottle of urine -- Americans protested peacefully and moved to cut off the federal funding that supported Mr. Serrano. There were no bombings of museums. No one was killed over this work that was deeply offensive to Christians.

Criticism of Islam, however, has led to violence and murder world-wide. Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa calling for Muslims to kill Salman Rushdie over his 1988 book, "The Satanic Verses." Although Mr. Rushdie has survived, two people associated with the book were stabbed, one fatally. The 2005 Danish editorial cartoons lampooning the prophet Muhammad led to numerous deaths. Dutch director Theodoor van Gogh was killed in 2004, several months after he made the film "Submission," which described violence against women in Islamic societies. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a former Dutch member of parliament who wrote the script for "Submission," received death threats over the film and fled the country for the United States.

The violence Dutch officials are anticipating now is part of a broad and determined effort by the radical jihadist movement to reject the basic values of modern civilization and replace them with an extreme form of Shariah. Shariah, the legal code of Islam, governed the Muslim world in medieval times and is used to varying degrees in many nations today, especially in Saudi Arabia.

Radical jihadists are prepared to use violence against individuals to stop them from exercising their free speech rights. In some countries, converting a Muslim to another faith is a crime punishable by death. While Muslim clerics are free to preach and proselytize in the West, some Muslim nations severely restrict or forbid other faiths to do so. In addition, moderate Muslims around the world have been deemed apostates and enemies by radical jihadists.

Radical jihadists believe representative government is un-Islamic, and urge Muslims who live in democracies not to exercise their right to vote. The reason is not hard to understand: When given a choice, most Muslims reject the extreme approach to Islam. This was recently demonstrated in Iraq's Anbar Province, which went from an al-Qaeda stronghold to an area supporting the U.S.-led coalition. This happened because the populace came to intensely dislike the fanatical ways of the radicals, which included cutting off fingers of anyone caught smoking a cigarette, 4 p.m. curfews, beatings and beheadings. There also were forced marriages between foreign-born al Qaeda fighters and local Sunni women.

There may be a direct relationship between the radical jihadists' opposition to democracy and their systematic abuse of women. Women have virtually no rights in this radical world: They must conceal themselves, cannot hold jobs, and have been subjected to honor killings. Would most women in Muslim countries vote for a candidate for public office who supported such oppressive rules?

Not all of these radicals are using violence to supplant democratic society with an extreme form of Shariah. Some in the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark are attempting to create parallel Islamic societies with separate courts for Muslims. According to recent press reports, British officials are investigating the cases of 30 British Muslim school-age girls who "disappeared" for probable forced marriages.

While efforts to create parallel Islamic societies have been mostly peaceful, they may actually be a jihadist "waiting game," based on the assumption that the Islamic populations of many European states will become the majority over the next 25-50 years due to higher Muslim birth rates and immigration.

What is particularly disturbing about these assaults against modern society is how the West has reacted with appeasement, willful ignorance, and a lack of journalistic criticism. Last year PBS tried to suppress "Islam vs. Islamists: Voices from the Muslim Center," a hard-hitting documentary that contained criticism of radical jihadists. Fortunately, Fox News agreed to air the film.

Even if the new Wilders film proves newsworthy, it is likely that few members of the Western media will air it, perhaps because they have been intimidated by radical jihadist threats. The only major U.S. newspaper to reprint any of the controversial 2005 Danish cartoons was Denver's Rocky Mountain News. You can be sure that if these cartoons had mocked Christianity or Judaism, major American newspapers would not have hesitated to print them.

European officials have been similarly cautious. A German court ruled last year that a German Muslim man had the right to beat his wife, as this was permitted under Shariah. Britain's Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, stated last month that the implementation of some measure of Shariah in Britain was "unavoidable" and British Muslims should have the choice to use Shariah in marital and financial matters.

I do not defend the right of Geert Wilders to air his film because I agree with it. I expect I will not. (I have not yet seen the film). I defend the right of Mr. Wilders and the media to air this film because free speech is a fundamental right that is the foundation of modern society. Western governments and media outlets cannot allow themselves to be bullied into giving up this precious right due to threats of violence. We must not fool ourselves into believing that we can appease the radical jihadist movement by allowing them to set up parallel societies and separate legal systems, or by granting them special protection from criticism.

A central premise of the American experiment are these words from the Declaration of Independence: "All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." There are similar statements in the U.S. Constitution, British Common Law, the Napoleonic Code and the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights. As a result, hundreds of millions in the U.S. and around the world enjoy freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion and many other rights.

These liberties have been won through centuries of debate, conflict and bloodshed. Radical jihadists want to sacrifice all we have learned by returning to a primitive and intolerant world. While modern society invites such radicals to peacefully exercise their faith, we cannot and will not sacrifice our fundamental freedoms.

Mr. Hoekstra, who was born in the Netherlands, is ranking Republican on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
Islam and Free Speech - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120649269618764219.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[McLeodGanja]

Interesting article.



A central premise of the American experiment are these words from the Declaration of Independence: "All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." There are similar statements in the U.S. Constitution, British Common Law, the Napoleonic Code and the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights. As a result, hundreds of millions in the U.S. and around the world enjoy freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion and many other rights.

Sadly though the freedom to pursue happiness and/or lead a spiritual life that includes the use of cannabis have been omitted from these immaculate western ideologies.

I'm trying to find out what Geert Wilders and his party for Freedom's position is on cannabis, and all I can come up with are articles on this bloody film.

Anyone know what Geert Wilders' view on cannabis is?


These liberties have been won through centuries of debate, conflict and bloodshed. Radical jihadists want to sacrifice all we have learned by returning to a primitive and intolerant world. While modern society invites such radicals to peacefully exercise their faith, we cannot and will not sacrifice our fundamental freedoms.

Isn't it just that they want the west to stop turning their homelands into a bloodbath from trying to impose western "democracy" on them through military force?

WIKIPEDIA="According to scholar John Esposito, Jihad requires Muslims to "struggle in the way of God" or "to struggle to improve one's self and/or society."[3][4] Jihad is directed against the devil's inducements, aspects of one's own self, or against a visible enemy.["

Obviously we are the enemy of Islam, according to the Jihadists, but what is it that makes us "visible" enemies?

I doubt very much that the film will reflect this observation which tends to go largely unmentioned when the Islamophobes start attacking Islam.

It's kind of like saying that all dogs are evil because they bite you, when in fact they usually only bite you if you kick them first.

[Mr. Clandestine]

Isn't it just that they want the west to stop turning their homelands into a bloodbath from trying to impose western "democracy" on them through military force?

For the radical sects of this religion, it's much more than that. Many of the clerics in the Middle East have stated that as long as there are Jews and Christians in their homelands, or Americans in general, that they will continue to wage their wars against us... seeking out the impure, and the "idolators" and trying to inflict harm or death upon them. These are the same clerics who have publicly stated that Islam can never actually consider itself a 'religion of peace' until they have wiped unbelievers from ALL predominantly Muslim nations, whether by conversion or by more lethal means. These are some of the highest regarded imams in the Middle East saying these horrible things, and they easily find justification for their hatred in the Qu'ran. Here are a few excerpts that illustrate my point:

ix.73: O Prophet Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.

xlvii.4-15: When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly ....

lx.4: We renounce you (i.e. the idolaters): enmity and hate shall reign between us until you believe in Allah only...

ii.193: Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme.

---

As with any religion, words can easily be misconstrued to reflect other (possibly unintended) meanings... but with words like these, it's easy to see why the most radical elements hate us so much. This is what Geert Wilders is so angry about. Perhaps he's simply misinterpreting what he's read from the Qu'ran, but if this is the case, it's easy to understand why.

P4B - Thanks for the article, I was curious what would become of the film and have been too busy to do much internet research on it. The author is right, you don't have to defend the views expressed in the film in order to advocate its release. Freedom of speech may not be very popular in many places throughout the Middle East, but in many other places throughout the world, it certainly is important... and for some people, even at the expense of putting their own lives in danger.

[McLeodGanja]

For the radical sects of this religion, it's much more than that. Many of the clerics in the Middle East have stated that as long as there are Jews and Christians in their homelands, or Americans in general, that they will continue to wage their wars against us... seeking out the impure, and the "idolators" and trying to inflict harm or death upon them. These are the same clerics who have publicly stated that Islam can never actually consider itself a 'religion of peace' until they have wiped unbelievers from ALL predominantly Muslim nations, whether by conversion or by more lethal means. These are some of the highest regarded imams in the Middle East saying these horrible things, and they easily find justification for their hatred in the Qu'ran. Here are a few excerpts that illustrate my point:

ix.73: O Prophet Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.

xlvii.4-15: When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly ....

lx.4: We renounce you (i.e. the idolaters): enmity and hate shall reign between us until you believe in Allah only...

ii.193: Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme.

---

As with any religion, words can easily be misconstrued to reflect other (possibly unintended) meanings... but with words like these, it's easy to see why the most radical elements hate us so much. This is what Geert Wilders is so angry about. Perhaps he's simply misinterpreting what he's read from the Qu'ran, but if this is the case, it's easy to understand why.

Yeah sure they are nut jobs some of these clerics, but surely without the western imperialists waging war in Arab homelands there wouldn't be so many disenfranchised young muslims around the world looking to them for guidance.


Freedom of speech may not be very popular in many places throughout the Middle East, but in many other places throughout the world, it certainly is important... and for some people, even at the expense of putting their own lives in danger.

No-one has the right to speak freely when there words put other people lives at risk. It's allright when you are a rich politician who can afford security, but for the rest of us who have to travel by train or bus in Holland now, we just have to hope to fuck that if the shit does hit the fan we're not one of the poor bastards standing next to it.

Geert Wilders is a coward, and a shit stirrer.

[Mr. Clandestine]

No-one has the right to speak freely when there words put other people lives at risk. It's allright when you are a rich politician who can afford security, but for the rest of us who have to travel by train or bus in Holland now, we just have to hope to fuck that if the shit does hit the fan we're not one of the poor bastards standing next to it.

That's understandable, and I hope for your sake (and the countless other innocents in your area) that if there is any retaliation, that it's directed towards Wilders himself, and not innocent civilians. These worthless piles of shit that walk into crowded areas and then detonate suicide vests laced with ball bearings and shrapnel are the real cowards.

I'd have to see the film before I could say Wilders is just stirring the pot, because I honestly know nothing about the man or the film, but I still am willing to defend his right to speak his mind... regardless of how it makes the fanatical Muslims feel about it. It's not right to be forced to cower in fear of retaliation over something you had nothing to do with, but it's also not right to deny someone their God given right to free speech just because some fanatical windbags can't handle criticism.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Isn't it just that they want the west to stop turning their homelands into a bloodbath from trying to impose western "democracy" on them through military force?

WIKIPEDIA="According to scholar John Esposito, Jihad requires Muslims to "struggle in the way of God" or "to struggle to improve one's self and/or society."[3][4] Jihad is directed against the devil's inducements, aspects of one's own self, or against a visible enemy.["

Obviously we are the enemy of Islam, according to the Jihadists, but what is it that makes us "visible" enemies?

I doubt very much that the film will reflect this observation which tends to go largely unmentioned when the Islamophobes start attacking Islam.

It's kind of like saying that all dogs are evil because they bite you, when in fact they usually only bite you if you kick them first.


We weren't bombing or attacking anything in the Middle East when Bin Laden and his monkeys attacked us on 9/11, or when the World Trade Center was bombed in 1993 by Islamic extremists. We were not trying to force democracy on them.

However, even the moderatly-toned Moslem newspapers used to be in favor of taking over the United States and establishing an Islamic theocracy - and I assume that they were representative of their readership. It had nothing to do with our involvement with the Middle East oil. I used to read their mainstream newspapers in the 1980's, courtesy of a Pakistani guy I worked with. Of course, since 9/11, they don't say things like that much anymore, but that's what many of them still want to do - and they aren't even close to being part of the lunatic fringe. A small but dangerous number of Islamic psychos want to destroy all human life on the planet Earth so that Allah can start over, and put Moslems in charge of everything. There's enough of these types out there to warrant major international investigations and manhunts.

There are just some people that it's not possible to negotiate with. Bin Laden, Al Quada, and others of their ilk just have to be stomped out. It would be much more effective if the Middle East did it themselves.

As for security, in the present, America probably has less to worry about than Europe. Our Moslem citizens are integrating into the society, and seem to realize that it's better to play ball by our rules than fight everything. They realize that they can live free and go much further, in terms of success, than most anywhere else - mostly due to the fact that class barriers are much less restrictive here. We have to watch out for attacks from outsiders.

New York City has many ethnic groups, well over 100, and they get along very well for the most part.

I've got no problem with most of the Moslems in America, as long as they understand that religion has no place in our government, and Islam is no exception.

[McLeodGanja]

Why does everything that happens now in the world have to revolve round the attacks on the world trade centre? It's like it is used to justify every atrocity and abuse of human rights by the US military these days. Kidnapping people from the other side of the world on the strength a confession extracted from a prisoner by means of torture and then subsequently incarcerating and torturing them in the idea that it might lead the us to track down the evil crusaders of Allah is not only completely unjustifiable, it is certifiable madness.


We weren't bombing or attacking anything in the Middle East when Bin Laden and his monkeys attacked us on 9/11, or when the World Trade Center was bombed in 1993 by Islamic extremists. We were not trying to force democracy on them.

Weren't the United Nation imposing sanctions on Iraq for years prior to 911, leading to the death of thousands of children?


A small but dangerous number of Islamic psychos want to destroy all human life on the planet Earth so that Allah can start over, and put Moslems in charge of everything. There's enough of these types out there to warrant major international investigations and manhunts.

Fine. Hunt the bastards down. But tell me this, why after all the bloodshed and abuse of human rights perpetrated by the western Allies, have only a handful of these lunatics been brought to justice?


There are just some people that it's not possible to negotiate with. Bin Laden, Al Quada, and others of their ilk just have to be stomped out. It would be much more effective if the Middle East did it themselves.

Are you sure about that? Has America even tried negotiating with Osama Bin Laden? The Bush family seem to get on well with the rest of his family. I remember that the ultimatum given to the west by Bin Laden was something along the lines of this. Get the fuck out off our land or expect more blood to be spilled. Is it not possible anymore for America to do that and perhaps spend more time and resources sorting out it's own problems back home?


As for security, in the present, America probably has less to worry about than Europe. Our Moslem citizens are integrating into the society, and seem to realize that it's better to play ball by our rules than fight everything. They realize that they can live free and go much further, in terms of success, than most anywhere else - mostly due to the fact that class barriers are much less restrictive here. We have to watch out for attacks from outsiders.

Outsiders? wasn't it several of your own citizens who bombed the twin towers in 2001? Anyway, our muslims are better than your muslims, nah joking aside I don't know what it is like over there, but here certainly there are few miscreants around getting up to no good.

...

[Reefer Rogue]

If you hate freedom, Islam is right up your alley.

Islam is the Enemy of Freedom

Tuesday, 20 November 2007

A great irony of the age is that the seemingly most diehard proponents of freedomâ?? the useful idiots (http://www.amilimani.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=2%20%20%20)of our timeâ??are the most dangerous unwitting accomplices of libertyâ??s enemyâ??Islam. Keep in mind that the very name â??Islamâ?� is a derivation of â??taslim,â?� the Arabic word for â??surrender,â?� surrender to the will and dictates of Allah as revealed by Muhammad and recorded in the Quran.

This non-negotiable surrender to Islam requires the individual as well as the society to disenfranchise themselves of many of the fundamental and deeply cherished human rights.

Below is a brief presentation of what this surrender to Islam entails and why it is imperative that all freedom-loving people arise and defeat the menace of Islamofascism.

Amendment I of the Bill of Rights enshrines some of the most cherished ideals of freedom-loving people:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Islam considers itself the three branches of government. It enacts laws as it sees fit, adjudicates laws, and executes as it deems. Islam is anathema to the provisions of the First Amendment and much more.

* Islam proclaims itself as the only legitimate religion for the entire world, grudgingly granting minor recognition to Judaism and Christianity from whom it has liberally plagiarized many of its dogma. Jews and Christians are allowed to live under the rule of Islam as dhimmis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi) and must pay a special religious tax of jazyyeh. Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Bahaâ??is, members of other religions, agnostics, or atheists are not even allowed to live practicing their belief or disbelief.

* Islam actively suppresses and even prohibits the practice of other religions, including those of the â??people of the book,â?� Jews and Christians. There is not a single church or synagogue in the cradle of Islam, Saudi Arabia, while thousands of mosques dot the tolerating and welcoming non-Moslem lands. Islamic countries that allow for Jewish and Christian places of worship subject these â??people of the bookâ?� to numberless subtle and not-so-subtle forms of persecution. Moslems in non-Moslem lands proselytize relentlessly and convert others while any Moslem who leaves Islam is judged as apostate and automatically condemned to death.

* Freedom of speech is just about non-existent in Islam. The word is Allahâ??s, his chosen divines such as Ayatollahs and Imams are the only ones who are to make pronouncements squarely-based on Allahâ??s word, the Quran. Any expression in the least at deviance from the Quran, the Hadith and the edicts of Islamic high divines is heresy and severely punishable. Hence, stifling of free expression is the major mechanism by which the Islamic clergy retain power and prevent constructive change in Islamic societies.

* Freedom of the press is completely alien to Islam, since a free press tends to express matters as it sees it, rather than as it is stated in the Quran. To Islam, the Quran is the press and the only press. There is no need for critical reporting, no need to present ideas that may conflict with the Quran, and no place for criticism of anything Islamic. The stranglehold of Islam on the individual and society is complete.

* Peaceful assembly of the people is not allowed. The backward oppressive Islamic societies inflict great hardship on the citizenry and any assembly of the victims presents a threat to the suffocating rule. Islamic governments routinely prevent peaceful assemblies from taking place. Failing to do so, they unleash their hired thugs, the police and even the military against any assemblage no matter how peaceful and how legitimate is its grievance. The Islamic Republic of Iran which is vying with Saudi Arabia as the leader of true Islamic rule, routinely attacks any and all gatherings of its people, arrests them, imprisons them without due process, tortures them, and even executes them in secret dungeons. Journalists, academics, unionists, students, teachers, women rights groups who dare to petition the government for redress are labeled subversive and are severely punished.

* Maltreatment of religious minorities and the non-religious is criminal indeed. In the Islamic Republic of Iran, for instance, the government has launched a systematic program of genocide against its largest religious minorityâ??the Bahaâ??is. The government is gathering a comprehensive list of Bahaâ??is, their occupations, locations, properties and the likeâ??action reminiscent of the Nazis. The government is banning Bahaâ??i students from post high-school education unless they recant their religion, deprives them of engaging in numerous forms of occupations and trades, denies them from holding worship gatherings, razes their holy places and much more. The Islamic Republic of Iran is not satisfied with its cruel treatment of the living Bahaâ??is and has launched a war on their dead by bulldozing Bahaâ??i cemeteries in several cities. Thus is the rule of fundamental Islamism that is awaiting the complacent and snoozing world.

* Oppression of women in general is tragic indeed. Men are allowed to have as many as four wives simultaneously and as many concubines as they wish or can afford. Men can easily divorce their wives and automatically have the custody of the children, if they so decide. Women have subservient status to men in all areas of the law. Equality under the law has no meaning in Islam. Just one example of the dreadful way of treating women in Islam is a case of a Saudi woman who was gang-raped. The Islamic court convicted the woman to prison term and lashes for having committed the â??sinâ?� of riding in a car with a male who was not her relative. This is a standard form of Islamic Shariah justiceâ??a savage heritage of barbarism that ruled the Arabian Peninsula some centuries ago.

* Islam has a solution for every â??problem.â?� It deals with homosexuals, for instance, by hanging them en mass and gloating about it, even though homosexuality is just as prevalent in Islamic lands as anywhere else. Recently an Ayatollah made a ruling on homosexuals. He said that they should be tortured before they are hanged. In Islam the rulings of high-ranking clergy constitute the law and are binding.

* Not only Islam does not allow freedom of assembly and the press, it is intrusively restrictive in every aspects of a personâ??s life. The way women should dress, the haircut of men, the music people are allowed, movies to watch, television programs to view, and even parties in the privacy of their home are subject to the ridiculous monitoring of moral police. Islam is hell-bent on outward morality and puritanical conduct while it is rotten to the core just below the pretentious surface.

* Islam segregates by gender many public places and events such as beaches, sporting venues, public transportations, and even building elevators. Families are often prevented from attending a sporting event together or swimming together at a beach.

* Egypt, the crown of the Arab-Islam world, demands that citizens declare Islam or only one of the two other religions, Jewish and Christianity, as their religion in order to receive the government-issued identity cards. ID cards are required for jobs, healthcare, education, a marriage license and a host of other things. If you are an agnostic, an atheist, a Buddhist, a Hindu, a Bahaâ??i, you are forced to perjure yourself to receive the indispensable ID card. In a real sense, Islam the pretender of high moral ground compels people to lie in order to receive what is their birthright as citizens.

I have been sounding the alarm about Islamâ??s imminent deadly threat for a number of years. The Islamic treasury flush with oil extortion money together with the help of useful idiots is having the upper hand in this battle of survival for freedom. The slaveholder Islam has been transformed into a more virulent form of Islamofascism; it is an inveterate unrelenting enemy of freedom. We need to act now and stem the tide of this deadly threat. Tomorrow may be too late. Freedom is too precious to abandon through complacency, acts of political correctness, or outright cowardice.

Amil Imani - Islam is the Enemy of Freedom (http://www.amilimani.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=84&Itemid=2)

Best post ever.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Why does everything that happens now in the world have to revolve round the attacks on the world trade centre? It's like it is used to justify every atrocity and abuse of human rights by the US military these days. Kidnapping people from the other side of the world on the strength a confession extracted from a prisoner by means of torture and then subsequently incarcerating and torturing them in the idea that it might lead the us to track down the evil crusaders of Allah is not only completely unjustifiable, it is certifiable madness.

The attacks on the World Trade Centers, the Pentagon, and the attempted attack on the White House were quite effective in rallying the world.


Weren't the United Nation imposing sanctions on Iraq for years prior to 911, leading to the death of thousands of children?

What the United Nations does or does not do is not up to the people of the United States, or those visiting the World Trade Center.



Fine. Hunt the bastards down. But tell me this, why after all the bloodshed and abuse of human rights perpetrated by the western Allies, have only a handful of these lunatics been brought to justice?

Because the Islamic world is not cooperating enough, and our government has not been effective enough in capturing or killing them.


Are you sure about that? Has America even tried negotiating with Osama Bin Laden? The Bush family seem to get on well with the rest of his family. I remember that the ultimatum given to the west by Bin Laden was something along the lines of this. Get the fuck out off our land or expect more blood to be spilled. Is it not possible anymore for America to do that and perhaps spend more time and resources sorting out it's own problems back home?

Bin Laden's huge "family" has disowned him. The man has stated that he is opposed to our whole way of life, and wants nothing to do with us, other than to kill us.

I am all for withdrawing from the Middle East, and never buying another drop of oil from them until these threats are dealt with.


Outsiders? wasn't it several of your own citizens who bombed the twin towers in 2001? Anyway, our muslims are better than your muslims, nah joking aside I don't know what it is like over there, but here certainly there are few miscreants around getting up to no good.

The 1993 bombing was financed by al Quida member Khaled Shaikh Mohammed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_Shaikh_Mohammed), and carried out by Ramzi Yousef, Mahmud Abouhalima, Mohammad Salameh, Nidal Ayyad, Abdul Rahman Yasin and Ahmad Ajaj. Doesn't sound like "our citizens" to me.
...

I would love to see the United States, and Western Europe, do exactly what bin laden wants, as far as boycotting the Middle East. They will then have choices such as:
A. Eliminate the threat of al Quiada, and similar organizations, or
B. Sell more oil to China.

If they choose plan B, and the terrorists try to take on China, the worst of what we've done will look like a walk in the park on a sunny day.

Our foreign policy leaves a lot to be desired, not unlike everybody else's. Let the Middle East have a taste of China's for a while. They'll probably come crawling back for our business with bin laden's head on a platter - and a much improved attitude.

[McLeodGanja]

Doing my best to edit my repsonse to Breukelen_advocaat....

"What the United Nations does or does not do is not up to the people of the United States, or those visiting the World Trade Center. "

I thought the US and the UK were a big part of the UN. Besides, the US and UK military also carried out an extensive bombing campaign in Iraq prior to 911.

"...the Islamic world is not cooperating enough, and our government has not been effective enough in capturing or killing them."

They have ben pretty effective in capturing and killing people thousands of innocent people though.

"The 1993 bombing was financed by al Quida member Khaled Shaikh Mohammed, and carried out by Ramzi Yousef, Mahmud Abouhalima, Mohammad Salameh, Nidal Ayyad, Abdul Rahman Yasin and Ahmad Ajaj. Doesn't sound like "our citizens" to me."

I was talking about the attacks in 2001. Wasn't it people who had lived and trained in the US that carried it out?

[Breukelen advocaat]

I was talking about the attacks in 2001. Wasn't it people who had lived and trained in the US that carried it out?
Yes, but they came here for the sole purpose of waging an attack. Obviously, to carry out the plan they had to be here.

How do you feel about doing what bin laden wants and completely withdrawing from the Middle East, and not buying any more oil? I think we should try it. Do you agree, or do you have a better solution?

If we give them enough rope, they'll surely hang themselves.

[McLeodGanja]

Yes, but they came here for the sole purpose of waging an attack. Obviously, to carry out the plan they had to be here.

How do you feel about doing what bin laden wants and completely withdrawing from the Middle East, and not buying any more oil? I think we should try it. Do you agree, or do you have a better solution?

If we give them enough rope, they'll surely hang themselves.

Completely withdrawing from the middle east sounds like a good plan to me, but is it going to work?

I think America should pull out of most countries it has set up air bases in as well, including the UK.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Completely withdrawing from the middle east sounds like a good plan to me, but is it going to work?

I think America should pull out of most countries it has set up air bases in as well, including the UK.
If we pulled out of the Middle East, I believe that the Sheiks would try to win our business back.

We shouldn't be using up the oil anyway. If we had alternatives sources of energy, what would the Middle East do? They have little else to offer the world, besides accumulated capital. They'd be financially de-fused and their people would have to either suffer, and turn into Third-World nations, or get a better system.


Yes, the United States should remove most of their military bases, especially from Europe. They were originally put there to protect them against the communists, specifically the USSR. There is no reason to waste our resources on that anymore.

[McLeodGanja]

If we pulled out of the Middle East, I believe that the Sheiks would try to win our business back.

We shouldn't be using up the oil anyway. If we had alternatives sources of energy, what would the Middle East do? They have little else to offer the world, besides accumulated capital. They'd be financially de-fused and their people would have to either suffer, and turn into Third-World nations, or get a better system.

What did these societies thrive on before oil? Do they really need "free trade" to keep their wheels turning?

Realistically, in todays world, probably...

[McLeodGanja]

The film has been posted on the internet.

BBC NEWS | UK | England | London | Dutch MP posts Islam film on web (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7317506.stm)

Doesn't say where though.

[McLeodGanja]

Nothing about where this film has been published though.

http://www.groepwilders.com/Viewdata.aspx?ID=52&CID=4

Never a dull moment in our glorious multicultural society! Today the Dutch conservative blog HetVrijeVolk.com published a furious email from the Rotterdam Labor Party councillor Bouchra Ismaili. I quote:

"Listen well, you crazy freak. We are here to stay! Hahahaha. Drop dead! I am a Dutch Muslim and I will stay that way until I die."

Ismaili contends: "You are the foreigners here!!! With Allah on my side I fear no one. Me and my fellow Muslims are alive! Your species is being consumed by hatred. Let me give you some advice: Convert to Islam and find peace at heart!"

Now what exactly made Ismaili go snap? A certain Jos Parbleu had sent her two quotes from the Turkish-Dutch Okay Pala, the local leader of the radically Islamist organization Hizb ut-Tahrir. During an interview with the newspaper De Telegraaf he had said:

"We reject freedom of speech, because we reject democracy," and "What you need is a heavy bomb attack".

Hizb ut-Tahrir is also known for activities such as handing out Islamist pamphlets in Dutch cities. In those pamphlets, Hizb ut-Tahrir calls for action against those who insult Islam, or against the infidels in general. According to the Dutch Secret Service, Hizb ut-Tahrir regards itself "not yet strong enough to use violence" in the struggle for Islamic world domination.

Fortunately, there are more than enough moderate Muslims in the Netherlands. You know, the ones that have embraced liberal democracy. Those brand new middle class Muslims that will protect us against the radicals. Succesful immigrant politicians like... Bouchra Ismaili.

But Bouchra Ismaili did not raise her voice against Okay Pala. She did not reassure the Dutch citizens who are genuinely worried about the growing power of radical Islam in the Netherlands. Instead, Ismaili vented her rage against... Jos Parbleu and what she calls 'his species' or 'the devil worshippers'.

I must admit that Ismaili is right about one thing: The ethnically Dutch are rapidly becoming foreigners in their own cities. Today, 36 pct of the Rotterdammers are of non-Western origin, i.e. Surinamese, Turkish or - like Ismaili - Moroccan. Under the age of 21, however, this percentage has risen to approximately 53 pct.

Now, the effects of this demographic shock wave are starting to set in. In October, the same Rotterdam city council made news when some members complained not to be able to understand their fellow councillors. Because they were speaking Turkish during the meetings and the breaks in between.

It seems that the multicultural radicals are finally going to have their way. The ethnically Dutch are becoming more and more marginalized in all the major cities. While sacrificing up to as much as half of their income to the multicultural welfare state, they are doomed to serve as a societal substrate, a kind of agar agar, as it were, on which 'rich cultures' are to multiply...

[McLeodGanja]

PoliGazette » Fitna Online (http://poligazette.com/2008/03/27/fitna-online/)

[Breukelen advocaat]

There is very little interest in this film in the United States. Even though we were attacked by Islamic terrorists, we do not feel animosity toward our Middle Eastern citizens. The situation in Europe is different, and I can understand the need some people feel to have this sort of statement publicized. I watched the film, and didn't see anything new.

I would have preferred to not have seen yet more images of the World Trade Center being attacked, but I guess Wilder felt it was necessary to include them, along with other acts of extreme violence. Had I known in advance what the film contained, I probably wound not have viewed it.

[McLeodGanja]

Yeah some of the scenes in it are pretty horrific, I agree.

No shots of Lebanese children with their legs blown off after stepping on an unexploded Isreali cluster bomb, I noticed, or white soldiers torturing Iraqi men, or genetically deformed babies in Vietnam, or of Sudanese militia running around with BAE Systems manufactured AK47's, or East Timoreans running for shelter whilst Hawk fighter planes, also manufactured by the evil west, fly over head.

Oh no, all of the bad people in the world are muslims that have been brain washed by the Quran...

[Breukelen advocaat]

Yeah some of the scenes in it are pretty horrific, I agree.

No shots of........white soldiers torturing Iraqi men........

What makes you so sure that "white" soldiers are the only ones guilty of alleged torture in Iraq? We have a very diverse military.

[McLeodGanja]

What makes you so sure that "white" soldiers are the only ones guilty of alleged torture in Iraq? We have a very diverse military.

Well the ones I saw on telly looked caucasian, but that is not to say there weren't others from a variety of ethnic backgrounds taking part in the Iraq Invasion.

[McLeodGanja]

Two 15 year old caucasian males just killed a 20 year old girl for being a goth, beat her to death while she tried to save her boyfriend who had also just taken a beating. So much for our western values, I guess our culture must be doing something wrong as well when this kind of thing happens.

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Lancashire | Boy convicted of Goth park murder (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/lancashire/7316601.stm)

[Breukelen advocaat]

Here's an interesting article about Saddam Hussein's torture methods. I don't really know if it was worth removing him from power - but information like this does not make much of a case for him. If things are worse over there today, than during Saddam's regeme, it's due more to Islamic extremist factions than the coalition soldiers' actions.

Saddam-era torture tools in mobile museum of horror

2 days ago

BAGHDAD (AFP) â?? Gruesome instruments of torture and the personal effects of victims killed by henchmen of dictator Saddam Hussein haunt Iraqis five years after the fall of his brutal regime.

The display, currently on show in Baghdad, is due to travel across the country in "tribute to the thousands of martyrs" murdered when Saddam was in power, former political prisoner Amed Naji al-Badawi said.

Badawi is on a committee of Iraqi former political prisoners who set up the exhibition in a makeshift museum of horrors on the banks of the Tigris River, in the Shiite neighbourhood of Kadhimiyah.

Nooses hang from the ceiling, and a wooden coffin-like box containing a mediaeval-looking torture rack on which prisoners were pinned and stretched takes centre stage.

Pictures of hangings and bodies are plastered all over the walls.

"These are the horrors of the Saddam regime," said Badawi, a stout man in his 50s who spent five years in the jails of Saddam's feared "mukhabarat" secret service because of his alleged support for the Shiite Dawa party.

He was arrested along with 13 members of his family -- and seven of his brothers were killed by Saddam's goons.

Over the past five years Badawi's committee has helped to locate 106 mass graves and the remains of 1,050 men, women and children killed by members of the ousted regime.

The display was set up to mark the 17th anniversary of the start of a Shiite uprising in southern Iraq on March 1, 1991, a day after Saddam's regime agreed to a truce with US-led coalition forces after its defeat in the first Gulf war.

His regime brutally suppressed the uprising, killing thousands of people.

The names of dozens of those victims are inscribed on black banners hung in the museum, next to a portrait of Shiite leader Mohammed Sadek al-Sadr who was killed in 1999.

The assassination of the Iraqi Shiite dignitary sparked major riots in Najaf, one of Iraq's holiest cities for Shiite Muslims.

In the middle of the room a single doll wrapped in a white shroud represents children killed during the iron-fisted rule of Saddam. It is surrounded with toys and cheap plastic flowers.

Mothers and widows who have visited the museum have broken down in tears at the sight of this display, Badawi said.

Also on show are cases containing the personal effects of some of Saddam's victims, whose remains or mutilated bodies have been found over the past five years in dozens of mass graves across Iraq.

The artefacts include combs, identity cards, a rosary, a sock caked in soil, a fragment of a pair of spectacles and bloodstained clothes. Arrest warrants signed by Saddam himself are also on view.

Among the most horrific objects retrieved by Badawi and his team from the notorious torture rooms of the mukhabarat, and now included in the museum, is a wooden table covered in a worn strip of leather and with a domestic iron placed at one end.

"This is an electrocution table," Badawi said.

"The naked prisoner was bound to the table with a steel bar strapped to his shoulder" to ensure maximum immobility as his torturers electrocuted him or used the iron to inflict burns, Badawi said.

Electric shocks were delivered via electrodes attached to a plastic syringe, the needle of which "was inserted into the urethra of the victim's sexual organ," Badawi added. "The pain was atrocious."

Videos of torture sessions are also screened in a basement room. Terrified prisoners can be seen being beaten, having their arms and legs broken and being thrown from rooftops or blown up with explosives.

AFP: Saddam-era torture tools in mobile museum of horror (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jBJtD5JAkDooCDnWFYHmjwdGyq3A)

[McLeodGanja]

Everyone stood in line in those days didn't they, there was none of this running around blowing yourself up or fighting the western allies. Everyone just kept their bombs to themselves, now that they have ben liberated they are free to do what the fuck they want, and that is obviously better. America knows how to deal with things.

[McLeodGanja]

Below is an excerpt from the comments published on the web site hosting Geert Wilders fascist documentary:

"61****religion
March 28, 2008 @ 12:27 pm CET
[admin] comment deleted because of the imposibility of removing all the obscenities and still having a coherent comment.

62****religion
March 28, 2008 @ 12:34 pm CET
[admin] comment edited. Third timeâ??s a charm, and you will be banned."

SO MUCH FOR FREEDOM OF SPEECH!

[McLeodGanja]

Two reviews just published on the host web site for FITNA, one of which i think is by the admin of the site.

PoliGazette » Two Reviews of “Fitna” (http://poligazette.com/2008/03/28/two-reviews-of-fitna/)

[zeitgeist]

Im getting sick and tired of everybody. I dont see why its so difficult to accept someone for their beliefs/disbeliefs and go on with life. I swear the human race is fucking stupid

[McLeodGanja]

BBC NEWS | Europe | UN chief condemns anti-Islam film (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7319188.stm)

Fucking hell this man Wilders is rapidly becoming less popular that Hitler, or even George W Bush!!!!

[Breukelen advocaat]

Churchill wrote the words below in the 19th century, and they're still true today.

Winston Churchill On Islam

A quote from an 1899 book by Winston Churchill, "The River War", in which he describes Muslims he apparently observed during Kitchener's campaign in the Sudan

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.


Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.

[McLeodGanja]

Churchill wrote the words below in the 19th century, and they're still true today.

Winston Churchill On Islam

A quote from an 1899 book by Winston Churchill, "The River War", in which he describes Muslims he apparently observed during Kitchener's campaign in the Sudan

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.


Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.

Good quote, but just because you can express your hatred towards a race of people using poetry doesn't give it any more credit. I'm still not convinced that muslims are all rabid dogs who rape their wives and don't know how to farm properly.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Geert wilders film: The important points it missed

by Larry Houle
29 Mar, 2008

http://www.islam-watch.org/Assets/Wilders-Islam-film.jpg

Geert wilders film, while good, failed to explain to the 'hear no evil, see no evil, do nothing about evil' naive infidels that all Muslims believe 'the Koran is the eternal divine word of God and and a copy of it is in heaven. Muslims must be obeyed without question. Most people think that the Koran is like the old testament. That Muslims can ignore the parts they don't like. But in truth, the Koran is the eternal laws of God. Its laws and commands are valid for all times and places forever. To question it is to question the very word of God, and hence blasphemous. A Muslim's duty is to believe and obey those divine commands without question. The Muslims will tell the infidels what they all desperately want to hear -- that the Koran is all peace and love and Osma bin laden is an aberration, not following the true Islam. But bin Laden is a true Muslim.



Wilders also did not include the 3 most important teachings of Islam:
9:5 â?? extermination of all non believers i.e. Infidels,
9:29 extermination of all Christians and Jews and
9:111 â?? those Muslims who kill and are killed performing 9:5 and 9:29 will ascend to paradise filled with full breasted, lustrous eyed virgins to sexually molest for all eternity.Therefore, the 9/11 is Koran's 9:111.


Wilders failed to point to the criminality of prophet Muhammad.

That Muhammad was the first Nazi SS man. He ordered 60 atrocious raids and expeditions, and personally commanded 27 atrocities. At the massacre of the Jews of Banu Quraiza, Muhammad personally assisted in the beheading of 600 to 900 Jewish men. In order to distinguish between young Jewish boys and young Jewish men Muhammad ordered his murderous Muslim jihadists to pull down their pants. Just the slightest traces of pubic hair and the young Jewish boy/man were beheaded. Their mothers and sisters were then enslaved, the young and pretty girls were reduced to sex-slaves or sold some of them into slavery.

Wilders needed to explain that in Islam, deceit, torture, murder, assassination, massacre, genocide, pillage, robbery, enslavement and rape are halal (legal) acts, deserving of paradise, as long as they were perpetrated on infidels. These unethical and criminal teachings became the eternal laws of Allah.

That Muslims can kill (behead) anyone for doing any of the following:


1) reviling Allah or his messenger;
2) being sarcastic about 'Allah's name, his command, his interdiction, his promise, or his threat';
3) denying any verse of the quran or 'anything which by scholarly consensus belongs to it, or to add a verse that does not belong to it';
4) holding that 'any of Allah's messengers or prophets are liars, or to deny their being sent';
5) reviling the religion of Islam;
6) being sarcastic about any ruling of the sacred law;
7) denying that Allah intended 'the prophet's message . . . To be the religion followed by the entire world.' If a Muslim challenges or questions the Koran, he is no longer a Muslim but an apostate of Islam and can be killed.
The cold, hard reality is that the Koran can never be changed, not even one word. When you are reading teachings of the Koran, you are reading the word of God himself and you must obey. There is no choice. There is no scope of ever exercising free will, employing logic, reason, rationality, morality.

This is the most important insanity that all Muslims believe. This is a disastrous belief that has the potential to destroy humanity and civilization as we know it.

Murdering infidels as an eternal law of God


9:5 when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters (unbelievers) wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer [become believers] and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.This is the notorious verse of the sword. 9:50 nullify all peace teachings, if any, from the Koran. God is commanding Muslims, as a holy duty, they must exterminate all infidels (particularly idolaters) from face of the earth.


9:29 fight those who believe not in God nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and his apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the book [Christians and Jews], until they pay the jizya [poll tax] with willing submission, feel themselves subdued.â?� This verse means exactly what it means. Convert to Islam, or pay a devastating submission tax or be murdered.



For those Muslims who slay and are slain in fulfilling above commands of the Koran, they are guaranteed accession to a sexual paradise filled with full breasted, lustrous eyed eyes virgins who re â?? generate as virgins after each sex act to sexually molest for all eternity (9:111):
9:111 â??lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the garden (paradise) will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slainâ?�
"as for the righteous (Muslims)...we (Allah) shall wed them to beautiful virgins with lustrous eyes" - Q 44:51-54The reason 3000 people were massacred on 9/11 was because God commanded the massacre. Those who butchered these people will ascend to paradise. By believing Koran is the book Allah's eternal laws, all Muslims believe this insanity.

Wilders added some more materials in his movie to explained these horrendous evils of Islam.

He should have made it clear that there are no moderate Muslims because in order to be a moderate Muslim you would have to renounce teachings of Q 9:5, 9;29 and 9:111. But if a Muslim renounces just one word of the Koran he is no longer a Muslim but an apostate of Islam and will be murdered.

Unfortunately, the film will not have the lasting impact it should have had, despite creating so much hypes.

Islam Watch - "Geert wilders (anti-Quran, Islam) film: The important points it missed" by Larry Houle (http://www.islam-watch.org/Larry/Wilders-Islam-Quran-film-points-missed.htm)

[zeitgeist]

I find it ironic that why the reasons Islam is against freedom and Churchill's essay are pretty much what Christians did.

And those extra points of Islam: That is not real Islam. These are ideoligies that have been twisted by those in power to use for their own advacements.
What Islam needs is a Renaissance so Muslims learn to think for themselves

[McLeodGanja]

"'hear no evil, see no evil, do nothing about evil' naive infidels"

I prefer to look at it like this. Don't look for evil, not gonna find any probably, but if you do... find evil.... try to find a way to get the fuck rid of it.

What "Hate" Wilders, as I being an Engelsmaan pronouces "it", is trying to say is this.

There is a serious threat posed to the world by fanatical Jihadists + Oh look at how many Muslims have settled in Europe in recent times = RACIST PROPAGANDA BULLSHIT.

I wonder, by warning the world about this impending disaster, does Geert Wilders expect the threat to go away when everyone wakes up and realises that Islam is the cause of the problem, or would he rather see us all fighting to the last bone until we are all dead so he can say- I told you so?

[McLeodGanja]

Breukelen_advocaat where do you get these articles from? I just read half way through it and it's such a crock of wank, sorry no offence, but it is.

Maybe Mohammed was a complete bastard crusador psycopath pedophile goat fucking satan's anus, but what you have to remember is that the holy word of others isn't worth shit compared to what you yourself thinks, and most religious followers in the world haven't realised that yet sadly.

I don't know if you read the article i posted about the film by one of the unofficial hosts, what it said was that Geert Wilders is using the same propagandist tactic as the Imams, cutting and pasting from the Quran and quoting it out of context, like the article you just posted did. The venom with which the writer expressed his views gave it away.

There is a lot more than bloodshed to the Quran, and even more to the Islamic culture.

[McLeodGanja]

PoliGazette » Fitna Could Have Been Made By Al Qaeda (http://poligazette.com/2008/03/29/fitna-could-have-been-made-by-al-qaeda/)

"Robert Spencer notes that formerly UK based Jihadist Omar Bakri said that â??Fitnaâ?� could have been produced by Muslim extremists. Robert comments: â??Preeeeeee-ciselyâ?¦ Yet in all the furor over the film, from the EU, the UN, the OIC, and everyone else, no one seems to have picked up on that point.â?� Although I agree that not many seem to have realized this, Iâ??ve got to say that â??no oneâ?� is a bit extreme. I know at least one person who said the exact same thing."

[Reefer Rogue]

I wanna see the movie but that one link didn't work, bloody censors =/

[McLeodGanja]

It was pulled less than a day after it was released due to the staff at one of the host sites receiving death threats. They pulled it and then started citing a mis-informed BBC news article as the reason for getting death threats - it was nothing to do with the content of the film.:wtf: That was Live Leak anyway, Poligazette had their entire site pulled down for a few hours for I assume hosting it without the permission of Geert Wilders. I wouldn't get too bothered about not seeing it, you really didn't miss much.

EDIT

CATCH IT WHILE YOU STILL CAN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCrCsTMokTU

[Reefer Rogue]

i saw it here CoreISP.nl Corporation Media Database :: For educational purposes only! :: Fitna the Movie (http://media.coreisp.nl/video/en/)

I enjoyed the viewing, i accept his views somewhat though i know that not every muslim wants to kill non believers. I know a lot of good people who are muslim. However, islamic extremism is no joke and is a serious threat to western values. Wildeers is a brave man, not scared to express his opinion. I congratulate him and i'm glad i saw his film. I feel it highlights the ludicrousy of a ridiculous ideology. Religion KILLS!

[Mr. Clandestine]

Here we go, let the death threats, boycotts, and protests begin...

"The Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party said in the note that the movie created unnecessary tensions and would "invite vengeance" from the Muslim community if it is not withdrawn."

----

"It is a great insult to all Muslims," Soleh Mahmud said. "The Dutch government must arrest him. Wilders must be killed because he has declared war on Muslims."

Malaysian party urges Dutch boycott (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/ASIA_QURAN_FILM?SITE=AZMES&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)


Isn't there a more 'peaceful' way to handle this matter that doesn't involve finding Wilders and lopping his head off at the neck? :wtf:

[Breukelen advocaat]

The Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party said in the note that the movie created unnecessary tensions and would "invite vengeance" from the Muslim community if it is not withdrawn.
"To signify our protest, we strongly urge Muslims all over the world to boycott all Dutch products," the party's youth leader, Salahuddin Ayub, said in a statement.
"We hope the protests by Muslims all around the world can be taken as our disapproval against any insult and attempts to deceive the world of the true picture of Islam," he said.
Over the weekend, former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad urged the world's 1.3 billion Muslims to unite and boycott Dutch products.
Malaysia's Foreign Ministry has also strongly condemned the 15-minute film, calling it disrespectful and insensitive. Sixty percent of Malaysia's 27 million people are Muslims.


The Non-Muslim world should boycott Malaysian products. In fact, we should boycott ALL Muslim-produced products, starting with oil, until these people learn their lesson. Cut their foreign aid and all of the other stuff we give them.

It pisses the fuck out of me. When somebody threatens you, you don't wait for them to do something - you take action ASAP and kick them into line. Not doing that is what caused so many problems in the first place. They are the type of people that have to learn the hard way. Let them sell their shit to China, and see what happens. If any terrorists threaten or attack that country, they'll hang them from meathooks and slaughter the whole village that they came from. China has no mercy or patience at all with religious extremeists, and they're exactly right.