10 Hermaphrodites....HELP...please

[allrollsin21]

Hi all.

I am fairly new around these parts. Have shared this hobby for less than a year, and have just encountered serious problems. Can anyone help?
I have noticed from reading threads that is helps to explain things in detail, so here goes.

Week 3 into flower i have had 10 of 40 plants turn hermaphrodite. 4 different strains, a few of each. I am in week 5 now, and have pollinated at least half the garden. I Used dutch masters Reverse for a heavy foliar feed, as my hydro guy said Dutch Master claims it can prevent seeds from growing. I also started last night with a feed-drench of ice cold water as i was told that will abort any seeds.
The two questions i have are, is there anything else anyone recommends which may be able to abort the seed growth. The pistils have browned, but the seeds have not shown.
Second and most important, how can i prevent this from happening again? I have checked the obvious stresses and cannot find any. This is a huge bummer as i went out and got all new equipment and got my room dialed in.
I am using six 600W air cooled HPS's. Temps have remained in the range of 70-82. I cannot find any light leaks. I did a pretty heavy prune to enable air flow on through the bottoms of the stems. leaf removal down below.
Please if you have any ideas...share. Thanks.

[allrollsin21]

A few things i forgot to mention.
Been feeding all organic. Botanicare Bloom, then three-four days later just water, then 3-4 days later Age Old Bloom, then 3-4 days later only water. And that cycle all over again. Growth has been steady and the plants mostly look very healthy. I have an intake fan dropping fresh air into the room for 15 minutes every hour. It is dispersed about three feet from the plants and has been probably about 15 degrees cooler than the room temp. Humidity is at a steady 40-55% throughout. Hopefully these details may be able to spark someones mind into a solution of my pro\blem. Thanks again.

[Dutch Pimp]

are you using "fem" seeds?

[allrollsin21]

my bad, i forgot to mention i am using clones. My clone source was very surprised to hear of this.

[denial102]

the clone was obviously a hemaphradite!

I've not heard of sexes changing from clones, ever

Peace,
Denial

[allrollsin21]

I have always been under the impression that any female plant can turn Herm given certain stresses regardless whether the mother was a hermaphrodite or not....i think this is the case.
I appreciate the posts this thread has received as my growing confidence is bordering on forced retirement. Thanks again

[stinkyattic]

Stress required to force a hermaphrodite ranges all the way from no stress needed in the case of bad genetics, all the way to needing chemical intervention (gibberellin or colloidal silver).
Those clones obviously came off a mother whose stress threshold was lower than your grow area's stress level. Time to find a new mother, or to eliminate the source of stress (light leaks? heat problems?).

[allrollsin21]

I dis not think it could have to do with the clones because 5 different strains have turned herm. God Bud, Grapefruit, Purple Cream, Purple Gas, W. Widow. Seems peculiar that all 5 of the mamas those plants came from were with herm tendencies. Which leads me to believe it must be something in the room. Anyone know of a strain that is least likely to turn Herm? The only strain that did not turn, YET, are the Critical Mass. I am getting desperate.

[Weedhound]

If you are using Reverse....correctly.....and getting hermies anyway......you have a continual light leak.

[Weedhound]

http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/144751-hermie-solution-confirmed.html

Here's an older thread where we thrash the hell out of hermies and Reverse and light leaks.....good reading if I do say so myself. :D


good luck

[allrollsin21]

Thanks weedhound i have read that thread many times over the last few weeks. It is helpful for sure.

I have checked for light leaks in the past and not found any. I just decided to check again. ONe thing i did not do last time was to let my eyes adjust to the dark. I was in and out in a few minutes, sure it was dark. Well this time was different. I sat in there for a good fifteen minutes and surprise i saw two very very dim places of light. One is coming through a vent fan duct. This one is so far on the other side of the room from where the herms were present. And the plants closest to this SHINER have not turned. The other point is up on a sealing where some time has gotten loose and the top of a window seam is emitting the tiniest bit of light onto the ceiling. The ceiling is 10ft high. This is closer to the herms but still seems to be so dim and at least 8 ft from anything. Can a light that is so dim that the eye can hardly see it, turn a plant???????

[Weedhound]

Well the rule I was taught is...if you can see your hand right in front of your face.....it's not dark enough. I had an extremely small light leak and ended up with hermied plants (different strains) on two different grows. I didn't do anything about it because I honestly figured it wasn't enough light. I never stood on the inside and measured the light leak but I'm sure it wasn't enough for me to see my hand with so it couldn't be enough to cause hermies.

I was mistaken. It was plenty. ;)

[stinkyattic]

That's because Mr. Nice Seeds' 'Critical Mass' is a stabilized version of the truly outstanding Massachusetts Super Skunk which is known to be so resistant to herming under ANY crap conditions that it MUST be treated with chemicals to produce male pollen.

Go around with a staple gun and duct tape and get your light leaks fixed, and pay close attention to what your high temp reading AT THE CANOPY is.

[Rusty Trichome]

I also started last night with a feed-drench of ice cold water as i was told that will abort any seeds.
Please if you have any ideas...share. Thanks.

Altho it seems you may have located the problem, (light leaks?) you'll still want to verify cannabis grow info with folks on this site, where growing cannabis is a part of our daily lives. It could save you oodles of frustration with future grows.

Did you find this technique on this site? Drenching the rootball with ice water can either kill a plant, or send it deep into shock. (compounding your dilema) Did you ice-water all of your plants, or just the hermies?

[Weedhound]

So true Rusty. All, you may have done your plants in with that. Also consider LOGIC. How logically is that supposed to help prevent seeds?

[stinkyattic]

I see 3 sources of possible herm-inducing stress:
-Ice-water bath
-Overzealous pruning
-Light leaks

And a note about 'aborting' seeds... IMHO, a crop seeded by fat, ripe, brown seeds is far preferable to a crop seeded by immature little white pips that you can't find and remove before smoking. The ripe ones are easy to remove from your finished product. So just go with it, fix your problems, and better [more seedless] luck next time...

BTW, does that Critical Mass stink like two skunks fucking?

[allrollsin21]

Accidental Pollination - What to do. - Cannabis-World (http://cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=735)

This is the link to where i discovered the ice-water. I was desperate and two people agreed. Hopefully its not one malicious person acting as two people.
Thanks for your insights. At first i only iced down some of the plants, then the next day when the others looked OK, i did the rest.
I'll report back as to whether my whole garden is dead in a day or two.....or tonight.

Thanks again foir the common sense slap in the face

[Rusty Trichome]

Likely best to double-check his 'knowlege' in the future.

I would avoid using the ice water.

[Weedhound]

Stinskster or Rusty.....would you see problems immediately? That's what I would think but I really don't know....he said the plants he did it to looked ok the next day.

[allrollsin21]

I will for sure report back on any noticable damage from the ice down. As far as logic goes, i would not claim to know what would cause either a woman or a female plant to abort a seed. I would think it would need to be stress though. Considering that is what an ice water bath would be, stress, it may be feasible....but don't bet your garden on it....oh yeah, i already did!!

[allrollsin21]

Well so far there have been no obvious ill effects from the ice water drench. To be clear i sprayed heavily with icewater the first night, then for two consecutive nights i fed them a mixture of ICE and water. Whether this will prevent seed growth will be anyones guess. Time will tell.
The critical are fat and stinky and less pollinated than the others.

[daihashi]

Well so far there have been no obvious ill effects from the ice water drench. To be clear i sprayed heavily with icewater the first night, then for two consecutive nights i fed them a mixture of ICE and water. Whether this will prevent seed growth will be anyones guess. Time will tell.
The critical are fat and stinky and less pollinated than the others.

You have any pictures? Sorry I don't have anything to contribute but I just like seeing some nice fat buds :). :jointsmile:

[Rusty Trichome]

Keeping fingers crossed. :thumbsup:

[allrollsin21]

Well there are definitely seeds developing on most plants. I would say at least 4 out of 5. I am most likely going to pull them down a few weeks early. I am renting a house and if i act i will be able to get another grow in this year. So i think i need to pull them and accept the losses.
My main concern is how long does pollen stay active?
How do i be sure to clean a 10x10x10 ft room of all the tiny pollen particles? Is it possible some pollen could linger around and pollinate the veg plants i will be putting into the flower room?

As for the ice water bath i would not do it again. As stinkyattic said:
"And a note about 'aborting' seeds... IMHO, a crop seeded by fat, ripe, brown seeds is far preferable to a crop seeded by immature little white pips that you can't find and remove before smoking. The ripe ones are easy to remove from your finished product."

Also i am not sure it did anything other then further stress the plants. In particular the Purple Cream which have had all their leaves turn yellow and the plants look as good as dead...but still standing. Thanks for all the help, hopefully next time will be more successful.

[Weedhound]

Sorry to hear that.....start a grow log on your next grow and we'll all come over and critique your performance.....:D

Better luck on your next one. ;)

[Rusty Trichome]

So i think i need to pull them and accept the losses.
My main concern is how long does pollen stay active?
A couple of weeks or so. If concerned, a plain water spray kills the pollen. if really concerned, add a teaspoon of bleach to the spray. (spray and wipe all surfaces pollen could settle)


Also i am not sure it did anything other then further stress the plants. In particular the Purple Cream which have had all their leaves turn yellow and the plants look as good as dead...but still standing. Thanks for all the help, hopefully next time will be more successful.

When I first started, I made a log-book to help remember what I added to or did to which plant, and what the result was. I have a hard enough time remembering what I ate for dinner last nite, so remembering what I nuted and how much, was better written down than trusted to memory. Was easier for me in the long run to see what was working, what wasn't.

Would be great growroom experience to try and nurse them as long as possible, if it dosen't interfere with another grow.
Details (there's a troubleshooting form around here somewhere, isn't there?) and pix from the begining of the grow, would likely help us help you.

If these were stress-induced hermaphrodites, and not bad genetics, you risk making the same mistakes and getting the same results. (poor soils, inconsistent light schedules, nute strengths, ph issues, growroom temps, sketchy growing techniques...can all cause stress)
I'm wondering too, if you were thinking the female pre-flowers were male nanners...? Has happened to me before, but then again, so have hermaphrodites, lol.

[allrollsin21]

Thanks for the info and thoughts Rusty. I think i will go ahead and use the Bleach just to make sure. And Reverse the newer girls on the first and tenth day of flower. Maybe i will take your advice and start a grow log.

[Weedhound]

Thanks for the info and thoughts Rusty. I think i will go ahead and use the Bleach just to make sure. And Reverse the newer girls on the first and tenth day of flower. Maybe i will take your advice and start a grow log.

Reverse (use the penetrator as well!) is worth every penny. :thumbsup:

[grey1223]

Hmmm, this is a tough one. To me your light leaks don't seem bad enough to me. I know the phrase "If you can see your hand" has been around awhile and it's not a bad way to look at it; however, I keep thinking about how light it is during a full moon. It sounds to me that there may be something else at work here, but by the same token I can't think what it could be. I'm sorry I don't agree your problem is light, but there's much smarter and experienced people on this forum than me.

[allrollsin21]

Thats a question i would love to know the answer to. Can the full moon cause hermaphrodites in certain strain when grown outdoor???????

[Rusty Trichome]

No. Wrong color, lol. (kidding)

I don't know if it's right or wrong, but the way I had it explained to me was...And keep in mind this may be terribly wrong, but it kinda made sense to me.

In our bloom rooms, we give the ladies (doesn't matter, but lets say) 600w of 'daylight'. So if you have a 2 watt light leak that causes stress enough to hermie, that's a 600:2, or 300:1 ratio. (light watts : darkness watts)

Outdoors, the ladies get sunlight. The equivalent of a couple million watts of light. When the moon comes out, it's like a 50w bulb.
That's what, a 2,000,000:50 ratio. (40,000:1)

These numbers were made-up to illustrate the difference, but I was told it's the ratio between day light, and night light.

Would be interested in finding out if this is just an urban legend, or fact.

[Weedhound]

I don't know if its true or not but someone told me that you quite simply cannot compare moonlight to popping on your 100-200w bulb several times during the dark period and trying to convince the plant its the same thing......somehow the plant KNOWS it not.....:D

[moz2009]

hi i am new to this and having the same problem, got 8 herms all started from seed, think i mite have a light leak 2. all very big plants of differnt strains, will i get much smoke off these and are the seeds any good?