Ebb and flow problem...why are my plants turning yellow? (merged)

[zoomatl]

Can any one answer this...it seems pretty simple but cant seem to get anything in plant problems to match ...i keep having a problem when i switch from one growth stage to the next ...i had ak47 and burmese kush plants in 4x4x4 rock wool cubes which i watered daily by hand with a basic flora nova grow and hygrozyme nutriernt mix the plants flourished ..i did this for almost 7 weeks and was able to sex out the true males...i then took my remaining females and put those into a 4'x4' ebb and flow table and set them up to get the same nutrient mix flooded in 3 times a day ...mind you there were no roots coming out of the bottom of the cubes they had been air pruned from growing out... . i had the water level set to just touch the bottoms of the rock wool cubes which were in white pots on top of about 4 inches of hydroton rocks...the cubes always stayed wet it seemed ..and 4 days later i noticed the growth tips begin to turn pale yellow...my ph is spot on 5.9-6.2 and my ppm is about 900...the same strength that they were getting when i was watering by hand....are the rockwool cubes just drowning the roots by holding too much water causing them to uptake not enough nutrients because they cant breath ...i have turned off the nutrient pump and just have a few air stones in the resevoir so that hopefully the rock wool cubes can dry out some.:(

[zoomatl]

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[BobBong]

Did you put them in the pots with hydroton from the start?

You went from once a day watering to 3 times a day?

Sounds like the hydroton is hydrating and when it starts to evaporate the rock wool takes the humidity.

If the water was touching the bottom of the cube 3 times a day then it'd remain alot more wet than it was when you were watering by hand once a day...

Hmmmm.... pH seems fine ..

Maybe some different input from other members will help you solve this problem.

best of luck,
Bob.

[daihashi]

well I don't know much about hydro but your issue looks like it could be an iron deficiency except the stems still look pretty green on the yellow leaves.

In some pictures I saw what I thought to be beginning symptoms of a Calcium deficiency.

Perhaps it's a Ca/Mag issue. I do see some minor curling going on along with the yellow.

I know Ca/Mag have to work together. Perhaps you're deficient on these and it's mimicking an iron deficiency since there aren't too many since of Ca being missing.

[zoomatl]

The rock wool stayed pretty dry when i was watering them by hand and they were just in a tray ...and now the cubes that are in the pots with the grow rocks were wet all the time ...could that have caused this i have heard that rock wool in hydroponic applications has a tendency to drown root and never dry out enough....and again this is the exact same nutrient solution they were getting b4 i transferred them to the flood table and put them in the pots..and they were super healthy b4 that...

[zoomatl]

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[daihashi]

I would say if your plants were doing fine a week ago then back track to that setup and slowly start making changes so you can see what happened.

They don't look droopy to indicate that they are drowning.

Still looks like a deficiency of some sort to me.

edit: again I'm not great at troubleshooting problems, but I never will be unless I try right? Hopefully some pro comes in here with an answer/explanation.

[zoomatl]

I have discontinued the use of the flood drain pump and when the cube dry out to where they need water i will go back to watering by hand like b4... ...

[gainesvillegreen]

I have discontinued the use of the flood drain pump and when the cube dry out to where they need water i will go back to watering by hand like b4... ...

I think that you'll find this will solve your problem. Rockwool can indeed be too wet and it's east to get to that point.

Once they dry out, put them back in your system and hand-water them only as frequently as they need it. This should allow the roots to grow into the hydroton while keeping your rockwool from becoming overly-wet.

When the roots have grown out of the cubes, try to set up your ebb and flow again. This time, keep the rockwool out of the nutrients and let only the roots flood.

[zoomatl]

The guy at my hydro store advised i have a pathogen or bug of some kind...i have scrapped everything and will change out everything that is expendable including the pump...all i will have left is the res and the flood tray ...all the fittings and hoses will be replaced too...any other suggestions of how to clean and sterilize so the problem doesn't come back ...?..it actually looked like it had started clearing up but ...i didn't wanna take any chances ...my first 2 grows were phenomenal...

[stinkyattic]

I see NO evidence of any pathogens in your system. In fact, that last pic shows very healthy plants!
I'd advise the following:
-Avoid allowing air-pruning to occur. Run Cannazyme if you see evidence of dead material in your root ball.
-Those wrapper things hold more moisture than you want and you might consider
'planting' the peeled cubes in a bed of hydroton next time.
-Drip-to-waste irrigation for rockwool is a good way to go. You can set the drip rate and timing to allow for drying between waterings.

Use a 'zyme product to clean your system. You don't have to replace the pump. If the hydro shop guy told you to do that, smack him! Lol! He's trying to get you to spend $$$$! Run the system with no plants, with a high dosage of peroxide. That's going to clear up bits of organic material that could rot.

You ever consider going to Hydroton in quart or even gallon pots in your flood n drain? It's MUCH more 'airy' than hydroton and you don't get that slow drying thing going on. Just a thought. The local hydro shop has a display of catnip, peppers, and some purple-leaved ornamental growing in just that arrangement. It's quite efficient, and for how dirty the whole thing is (dead leaves, muck, etc) all the plants are extremely healthy. Goes to show how resilient plants are when their roots get enough oxygen.

That deficiency appears to me to have been an iron def. Not bugs or viral.

[dejayou30]

My plants looked sorta like that in E&F because of both root rot and being root bound. I ended up switching to DWC. If your roots aren't sticking out of the cube, they should be. The roots have to be big to support a plant of that size. If not, they go to shit like you are experiencing. Took me three grows to figure out the problem, so don't feel bad.

[nimo_253]

You just need to get your timing right when feeding your plants. Like if you're running HIDs water 2-3 times a day. CFLs 2 times. 1 water in the morning and another watering 1 hour before lights go off. And if it gets really hot in the room you may need to water more often.

with straight rockwool you gonna run into a lot of problems like this, you could use pots filled with hydroton to give the roots some breathing room.

[zoomatl]

Hello all ...i had this same problem in my last grow...i have been doing everything by the book...as soon as i saw roots coming out the bottom on the 3x3 rock wool cube i put them in the pots added the rocks and set them up to flood and drain 3 times a day ...up until this point i was watering by hand2 times a day.... i put them in my ebb and flow ...this was Sunday evening ...by Monday night i could already see the new growth begin to turn yellow and some of the existing growth on the plants have also begun to yellow...its only Tuesday and they were perfect Sunday night ...i have scrubbed everything with bleach and disposed of everything that was replaceable...i thought i have kept them in the rockwool cubes too long last time (2 months) and they might have gotten root bound.... but they are just 3-4 inches tall and only 3 weeks old this time im so confused...what should i do ...??? :(

[Weedhound]

How about some photos and fill out the troubleshooting sticky at the top of the plant problems section?

And off the top....try watering twice a day like you did by hand and see if it makes a difference.

Ps....they're not in a hydrohut are they?

[zoomatl]

They are in a hydro hut ...why do you ask ...??[attachment=o187094]

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[zoomatl]

I have not allowed my plants to air prune and i put them in 3 gallon pots in my ebb and flow tray...and within 2 days they have started to turn yellow...they are 3 weeks old and 3-4 inches tall..[attachment=o187171]

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here is what they looked like Tuesday night ...they were only in the tent in the ebb and flow 24-30 hrs and they started to yellow...i switched from watering by hand 2 times a day in a tray to the ebb and flow Sunday at 6pm and they started turning yellow by Tuesday morning at 7am ...something just doesn't seem right ..if i had left them alone with no nutrients i don't believe they would have started to yellow so whats up ...?

[zoomatl]

i used to use the cheap grow rocks and my grows rocked.... i had 3 very successfully grows....since i have switched to the more expensive hydroton ( the little rounds balls) the problems started this is also the only thing that has changed...

[stinkyattic]

Did you pre-soak the hydroton in pH 6 water until the pH remained stable after 24 hours? It comes from the factory at a pH above the range that hydro pot likes. You need to adjust it before use. Looks like something is locking out iron.

[Weedhound]

Did your last plants do great until you put them in the hydrohut? And then no matter what they turned yellow and died? And are these plants doing the same things?

IF that is true you need to get in touch with the people who make them.....there was an issue with some hydrohuts putting off toxic gasses or something.....hang on, let me see if I can find the link.

[Weedhound]

http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/150659-all-went-wrong.html

Check this thread out.

[stinkyattic]

I just saw this second thread and merged them for simplicity's sake. Those are VERY VERY low in those buckets by the way.

[Weedhound]

Stinkster's such a babe! :thumbsup: :jointsmile:

[zoomatl]

I have been very worried ...i thought i had some sort of airborne pathogen that i would never be able to get rid of....When i went to that other thread and began to read i was thinking that this is exactly what happened to me ...it was almost exactly the same...then i saw the pictures and i was thinking this has got to be a joke because the plants looked exactly lime mine ...until i noticed that the pots were different ...
I called the guy at the hydro shop and he advised he had gotten 3 returns already ...he had changed brands of huts they were buying ...its gonna be a hassle to take the whole thing apart...but at least i will have a good harvest to look forward too ...im glad i caught it on the third day...I have wasted 300 dollars on seeds alone in the past 4 months since i got the new deluxe hut.
I turned my first hut into the veg hut and my plants would be very very healthy damn near perfect perfect.... i was really proud ...then literally 24 hours after transferring them to the new hydrohut deluxe they would be turning yellow...and the growth rate would slow to a crawl but the would not completely die but they would not thrive at all.. :smokin:

[zoomatl]

Thank You WEEDHOUND

[zoomatl]

Quality hydrohut to save plants killing in hydrohut growing. (http://www.hydrohuts.com/commitment.html)

[Weedhound]

:D. Hope that solves it for you.

Good luck. :)

[zoomatl]

I took down my hydrohut deluxe i got for x-mas with the 3 air cooled lights and 2 blowers ...took it back to the hydro store and they gave me a new one...i got it home put it all back together and put my plants back in it ...this was last Sunday ...its been a week and im still seeing some odd growth from some of the plants ...some are really starting to look good again ...but some still seem to be lagging and still a yellow in color ...my question is there any visible way to tell the bad huts from the good and the bad hut poles from the good hut poles...i sure as heck dont wanna have to take this down again...??...and how long before my plants will perk up ...could that 3 days in the bad hut have cause some irreversible damage to them ...?? :smokin:

[Weedhound]

Zoo can you take a photo?

That's a new one on me....I have no idea what kind of....if any....permanent damage there could be or how you would even know unless the plants start to keel over or something.

Can you ask the folks who traded your old one in what they think?

[Lazypotgrower]

First off why did you take your hut back was it defective?And why do you think your hut contributed to the yellow leaves and etc?Could it have been temps,nutes?Do you have pets or a outside garden?Alot of things could play into factor my 1st choice would not be the hut.:thumbsup:P.S. how long were they out of the enviroment after you took it back

[Lazypotgrower]

Please forgive if i spoke too soon like i said i'm still tryin to work the board.I seen and ran with it but i'll get the hang of it soon.I hope at least.No harm no foul, but now that i seen the pics i agree
that they look good/ just that yellow.:thumbsup:

[zoomatl]

But yeah.... just wanted to update this in case anyone else has to go through this...it turns out the more developed plants were not nearly as severely affected as the under developed plants ...i would say that the difference in height was about 2 inches ...the 6 inch plants began to yellow but i believe because they had much more green foliage that did not get a chance to turn yellow, that they were able to still fuel new growth and allow the plant to recover. where as the smaller plants turned almost completely yellow and have really struggled to recover...but im confident that i will be able to get them back on track it does seem that i have lost a good 3 weeks worth of growth just comparing to my other successful grows. i see very healthy new growth on 12 of my 18 plants and they seem as if they will do just fine...but 4-6 of the smaller plants that i had introduced to the poison hut are just starting to show signs that they will also pull through....i have also started 12 seedlings in that hut as a "from scratch " test to make sure this new hut is not off gassing like the one i traded it in for. :smokin:

[Puffzter]

I have a poison hut as well. :(
How did it go for you in the end?

[zoomatl]

I took back my hydrohut deluxe and the guy exchanged it for a new one...got every thing set back up and low and behold ....the second hut was poison too....didn't realize it until it was too late so there goes another crop down the drain ...took it back got a store credit and built 2 sealed rooms 1 for veg ...1 for flower....its all good now..!! :smokin:

[Puffzter]

Ye heard same story as yours over and over again.
Been collecting material all over the web the last 3 days and havent found a single grow from seed to harvest with these tents. Have about 100 threads found now about problem ones though. Some people have managed to go through 12/12 phase but with poor yield and even they are ery few.
One guy even made clones to try it out properly and put half in the hut and half in another tent with same nutes and same lights etc and got less than half the yield from the Hydro Hut ones.
Some plants seem to be able to take the tents better than others though. On ordinary growforums you find much less problems but on CB forums as I said after 20-30 hours of research I am yet to find a seed to harvest grow that went ok.
I changed my tent for a Secret Jardin Dark room and my dieing plants recovered in 30 hours.

Chinese poisonous crap canvases. :(

Puffzter