Existentialism and The absurd?

[jackforest]

I read the novel 'The Stranger' by Albert Camus, and it was a great introduction to the basics of existentialism. The idea of creating your own individualistic meaning to humanity is much more appealing to me than the suggested ordinary expectations of society on how the general public spends their limited time on earth.

Any views?

[psteve]

...

[serenity45]

I enjoyed that book too. One of my favorite endings to any book.

[Acouwaila]

Maybe at this point in the world, creating your own individualistic meaning to existance would be second best option. First is selflessness. But shit, Ill take the second....sorry for not having the balls to sacrafice everything I know for something I just started to understand. 20 years against 1 month is shitty man. I cant be a monk yet. But maybe someday ill make the leap.

[jackforest]

Maybe at this point in the world, creating your own individualistic meaning to existance would be second best option. First is selflessness. But shit, Ill take the second....sorry for not having the balls to sacrafice everything I know for something I just started to understand. 20 years against 1 month is shitty man. I cant be a monk yet. But maybe someday ill make the leap.

To achieve selflessness is just about as impossible as living in this world under your own terms. Society has us fucking hogtied to obey a certain code of social conduct. As for selfessness, imagine the last selfless deed you have done. I know I can't. I consider myself to be a pretty giving person but, even if its a good feeling derived from a good deed, your benifiting.

thanks for the reply, I wasn't sure if anyone would

[psteve]

words.
More words.
yet another set of words.
idea.
existence.

[jackforest]

words.
More words.
yet another set of words.
idea.
existence.

if only there were more psteve's in the world. thats a pretty good fundamental understanding. good show buddy

[psteve]

if only there were more psteve's in the world. thats a pretty good fundamental understanding. good show buddy
IdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaId eaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdea IdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaId eaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdea IdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaId eaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdea IdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaId eaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdea IdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaId eaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdea IdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaId eaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdea IdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaId eaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdea IdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaId eaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdea IdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaId eaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdea
Action.
Words.
Action.
More words
Action
Idea.
Evolution.

[Acouwaila]

To achieve selflessness is just about as impossible as living in this world under your own terms. Society has us fucking hogtied to obey a certain code of social conduct. As for selfessness, imagine the last selfless deed you have done. I know I can't. I consider myself to be a pretty giving person but, even if its a good feeling derived from a good deed, your benifiting.

thanks for the reply, I wasn't sure if anyone would

This is true. Living in the world on your own terms is still a kind of lie in itself, and really does no good for anything. And yes, selflessness is something reached after years and years of practice. It is hard not to feed the ego with all sorts of things that are appealing to you. You are right, it is practically impossible unless you want to make the sacrafice. I wasn't sure if you meant living in the world under your own terms in a sense of, doing what you want. Or just kind of creating a mindset that will get you through life with little confusion and mental pain.

After reading two books on busshism and zen, and also the teachings of budda, Its hard to turn away from. I now realize im kind of stuck in a world of illusion and the only way to break free would be to sacrafice everything I know, and have. and then continue a practice of zazen for 20 or 30 years

You may have benefited from the deed afterwards, but during it...the deed stood alone.

[stinkyattic]

Acouwaila, did you ever read The Fountainhead? There's an interesting commentary on selflessness that runs through the book- that one who is committed to acts of charity may not, in fact, be working primarily for the good of others at all, but in hopes of making themselves feel better, or be admired for their sacrifice, and that true selflessness comes only when one understands that he is simply a part of the greater community and helping others makes his own world a better place.
The character in particular whose story is of a misguided sense of charity is Toohey's niece Catherine, Keating's sometime girlfriend, who appears to be a minor character and doesn't show up in simplified analyses of the novel at all, but she is a very important figure IMHO, a tragic symbol of naivete and a poor understanding of her relationship with the world.

[psteve]

All my work helping MMJ patients is completely selfish.:)
It's just that I'm extremely stubborn, and I refuse to give up until we are completely legal. :mad::mad::mad:

[Acouwaila]

No, I've never read it. But that sounds about right. It is completely realizing that everything and everyone is just an extension of your self. Therefore, helping someone else is helping yourself....not for the sake of gratifying your ego, but for the sake of good. The point where it isnt about THINKING about doing good deeds, but being the deed for the sake of the universe and your own self. Like I said, its an all or nothing situation. If someone wants to be a help to the world, they first have to make the commitment to understand what they really are. They must first be awake. As long as one is sleeping, they will not help the world with true hands. Its all to do with fear and comfort. As long as we are seeking comfort, which is basically us running the furthest we can from fear. We are still working independently. When every individual on this earth is working in the direction that their own mind leads them to believe is the way, how can conflict be avoided?

We are of the same creation, and we were all born under the same circumstance. We were even all born at the same time! Since, time is just some weird measurement for the passing of moments. Even if time was a completely solid structure of nature, and there was a huge clock in the sky. Think about our time compared to the time of all of existence. Then how long ago was it that we were born. Every human that lived on this earth 130 years ago, is now dead, right? We're just a moment.

Shit, im just rambling now. Its all happening though.


When you think about it. Wont a deed go the same distance no matter who or what its for? Maybe no deed is good unless it serves the purpose of helping others help another. So on and so forth. If a deed is specifically for letting someone else feel comfort. All your doing is shifting your own self gratification to someone else. And then they might have the wrong idea. Maybe we need to understand what a deed is. What is a real deed?

[psteve]

"There's no such thing as Absurdism"....

[jackforest]

Acouwaila, did you ever read The Fountainhead? There's an interesting commentary on selflessness that runs through the book- that one who is committed to acts of charity may not, in fact, be working primarily for the good of others at all, but in hopes of making themselves feel better, or be admired for their sacrifice, and that true selflessness comes only when one understands that he is simply a part of the greater community and helping others makes his own world a better place.
The character in particular whose story is of a misguided sense of charity is Toohey's niece Catherine, Keating's sometime girlfriend, who appears to be a minor character and doesn't show up in simplified analyses of the novel at all, but she is a very important figure IMHO, a tragic symbol of naivete and a poor understanding of her relationship with the world.



I really must read fountainhead. My friend has been preaching to me about it for weeks now. It sounds great. Maybe once I finish, I'll open a thread for discussion.

[stinkyattic]

I recommend reading it twice. It's one of a few books that I think you really need to read a couple times to get different subtleties of the ideas presented. I've been told that Atlas Shrugged is better, but never read it.
Do I see the Canncom Book Club coming to order? lol!

[THClord]

Why can't people accept that some things just are and have no reason.

Ex: Why did I get a 2, Ace hand in poker? There must be some reason. Maybe I'm playing someone who needs the money more and if I lose with and Ace I will be doing humanity good.


Instead of going to all sorts of abstractions, just take a look at the animal kingdom. What is the purpose for bacteria? Is it to provide unhappiness to humans? NO. They have no purpose. They just reproduce and evolve because they can.

What about wolves? They are a very social species. They are very smart and very adaptive. The fight amongst each other for dominance, mating, and work together against other packs. There must be some reason for their existence. NO, there isn't. It just happens that all this social behavior helps their evolution by selecting the best genes.

What about humans? Entirely 100% same as wolves. We have no reason. Why is it so hard to accept this? Instead of following peoples' bullshit creations of things you have to do because there is a greater reason for our existence, just enjoy life. Look for whatever you want to try and do it.

What I've found is that a complete person is a person who is fearless. A complete person will perform every single task at 100% of his potential. But everything in society seem to hack away from your complete self and reduce you into a shell of yourself. Just think about all the fear that is put unnecessarily into our lives.
Fear of getting pulled over by cops. Fear of identity theft. Fear of terrorism. Fear of forgetting stuff. Fear of unhappiness. Fear of becoming a failure. Fear of fear. Fear of cancer. Fear of losing your job. And the list would go on forever.
Or if you're Christian: Fear of going to hell for like 90% of the things you want to do.
The more you live in fear, the unhappier you are.

[Acouwaila]

you got it. Fear controls our lives. All anyone wants is to be comfortable and happy.

You are saying, that to be happy, you must be fearless.

In spite of our fear all of our lives, while we walked a path towards an imagined dream destiny, we started assigning definition to things. All because of fear. We had to know what we were dealing with. Because to us, knowing, is comfort.

and because we came up with a name for everything, thats all it is anymore. Look over there, its a "tree!"

What if you didn't know what it was called, and you had never seen it before in your life. It would be this huge root coming from the ground that grows thin green flakes, good for a place to catch some shade, or get out of the rain when you're cold.

Mraz said it, "our name is our virtue"

The other morning, I woke up because it sounded like a train was about to hit my house. The thunder was so loud, and for the first time probably since I was born, I understood the roor of nature, I understood it had no name, it wasnt "thunder"...but it made a loud sound, and I understood it was no sound created by humans. It wasn't created under any condition, it wasn't for the better or worse of anything. It was great and wonderful.

Anywho, you are completely right. But under all of that fear, is a different person. A person who doesn't contemplate where to go, or what to do. Who knows what kind of ambition that person has? Who knows what good that person will do. You gotta also understand that selfish acts are also a part of fear. Do you fear that life has to have meaning, and maybe you want to do what ever YOU want so you can be happy. Look at this way. You want to be happy to not have fear. So, isnt attempting to be happy, the same as attempting to run from what ever else there is? And whats running from something? Fear.

Understanding that we've all been raised under very distorted circumstances, no one really has the right mind. Theres always a fear of something. Ultimately, its death.

[jackforest]

And its the government controlling us through fear. fear of terrorism. fear of global warming. fear of the avian flu. It's always something.

i say this with no where near convinction