Taxi to the dark side

[fishman3811]

I just watched the movie Taxi to the dark side on google video.Its a documentary about tortue at Abu Graib and other prisons run by the nazi bush administration.Specificly the movie is about an Afghan taxi driver who was picked up in his taxi and taken to jail only to be tortured to death....One more reaon to charge bush with war crimes............

[rebgirl420]

Now don't get me wrong fishman, I think your a very intelligent guy. And I don't particularly like Bush either but comparing him to the Nazi's is very, extreme. To even begin to say that he has done anything remotely close to the Hallocaust is very far fetched.

The prisoners at Aby Graib are very bad men. Men that were involved in terroristic activities. You don't get sent to Abu Graib for nothing. The people at Abu Graib deserve to be punished and if we need to get things done by using "torture" (waterboarding for example) it seems reasonable to me. These people know the risks they are taking by trying to hurt our soldiers and us. If using "torture" in some circumstances is needed to save lives then so be it.

Everyone seems to be complaining that the Geneva convention is being trampled upon. But these people were fighting aren't and weren't using it to begin with. I believe it is only fair to fight on the same plane, at least to a degree (reminder, when I say this I of course don't mean hurting innocent people like suicide bombers do for example).

Okay, so thats my 2 cents.

[psteve]

Jail to the Chief.

[fishman3811]

rebgirl how you doing?Im not comparing what the nazis did to the jews im just saying that the nazis tortured P.O.W s just like the bush administration does to their prisoners.You seem to think that no innocent people get sent to Abu Graib wich is false lots of innocent people get sent their.I think they said only about 8-10% of the people their are terrorists the others are just ordinary people at the wrong place at the wrong time.Go watch the movie rebgirl besides torture is not a good way to get intelliegence and when u torture someone who is innocent and they die then what?Would u like to be that persons wife or mother i dont think so.

[rebgirl420]

I'm doing good. Just watching the news trying to see the primary results.

I'm not saying that there aren't innocent people in ANY justice system. And that certainly is a horrible thing. But I have faith in the men and women who serve us to get their information right. And I'm not for tourturing prisoners who are there for minor crimes. However sometimes it is needed for more adcvanced cases. If you could save human lives I don't see how tourturing a known terrorist could be that horrible. War is a horrible thing. It shouldn't be our number one option, it should be a last resort to go to but certain circumstances do call for it. Otherwise tourturing can get false information.

It has to be used with intelligence.

[fishman3811]

Ok i think Obama won Texas and Hillary won is it Ohio anyway your right war is horrible but tourture is wrong no matter how u look at it.We as a civilized culture should set an excample for the rest of the world.When U.S prisoners were being tortured by the Japs during WW2 Americans didnt do the same as far as i know.There was a big debate up here in Canada when it was learnt that enemy combatants that were being caught by Canadian soldiars in Afghanistan were being tortured by the Afghan officials.The Canadian government said that it was unacceptable and would no longer allow the Afghans to be tortured.But i can see where your coming from but i still think we should set an excample.............

[rebgirl420]

You are definately correct that we should be above this sort of thing by now but unfortunately We may be, but the enemy we are fighting isn't. These hardcore terrorists only know how to respond to extremes such as tourture.

It would be much, much different (and a hell more convienient) if the U.S was fighting a "civivlized" enemy like we did in WW2.

However I do see what you mean. And I don't like the idea of torture that much either but sometimes you get to a point where you hit a wall. And you end up having to go to these extremes. Overall this is just a horrible thing. It's really hard to set a example when no one else wants to play with the same rules. And of course that leads to more talking and less shooting but the terrorists odn't want to talk. They don't respond to it.

And I blame BOTH sides for all of this crap. This is all over religion if you look at it. On Bush's side he's fighting for the Christians and such and the other side is fighting for Allah. And of course this leaves normal people, like you and me, to have to catch the brunt of this.





And I call bullshit on that one. Because as an Atheist I continue to see the line of Seperation of Church and State being blurred more and more as the days go on.

[boaz]

... your right war is horrible but torture is wrong no matter how u look at it. We as a civilized culture should set an excample for the rest of the world. When U.S prisoners were being tortured by the Japs during WW2 Americans didnt do the same as far as i know.There was a big debate up here in Canada when it was learnt that enemy combatants that were being caught by Canadian soldiars in Afghanistan were being tortured by the Afghan officials.The Canadian government said that it was unacceptable and would no longer allow the Afghans to be tortured.But i can see where your coming from but i still think we should set an excample.............

i agree. i don't believe we, or our allies, have ever really tortured, at the level of say the Japanese during WWII or at the Hanoi Hilton, but it was the perception of torture that seems to have cost us so much in Iraq. i think the good news is, we are beyond that now. Maybe McCain should remind 43 of that today when he's out there visitin with the Pres. btw, i'm not disagreeing with rebgirl in anyway, just like what the fishman was laying down. peace brothers and sistas. :hippy:

[Psycho4Bud]

Im not comparing what the nazis did to the jews im just saying that the nazis tortured P.O.W s just like the bush administration does to their prisoners.

So that makes Bush a nazi? Well, since the Canadians have done the same in Afghanistan I guess you people don't really have much to bitch about.

At least "try" to keep it real beyond your own personal hate. So how are them Canadian oil contracts in Iraq doing?:rolleyes:

Have a good one!:s4:

[Dream of the iris]

Pyscho I think I'm liking you more and more each day. Yeah I mean Ok Bush and most of the politicians are in it for the fame and money but jesus dude we're not being ruled by a bunch of pyschopaths like Hitler who just want to end innocent lives.....Torture is a bad thing only when your dealing with people....these terrorists are not people. They're monsters. The Japanese soldiers were civilized people acting on behalf of their government. These terrorists are just plain crazy criminals and in my opinion do not deserve to be in the ranks of people.

[Psycho4Bud]

Pyscho I think I'm liking you more and more each day.

Come to the darkside Luke.....:vader1:

Hitler invaded countries, left them in ruins, and sent their people to concentration camps. We invade, rebuild, then leave them being an economic power....like Germany and Japan. There is NO comparison except for blind hate.

Have a good one!:s4:

[fishman3811]

P4B your kidding right you invade and rebuild lol im sure the Iraq people would not want your type of rebuilding,go ask the 2.5 million people who have fled the country....

[Psycho4Bud]

And with a magic wand the U.S. can restore an infrustructure that was left for ruin since "91". :rolleyes:

We have done just a lil' bit though:
In 2002 Baghdad had access to electricity on a near continuous basis while the rest of Iraq was limited to 3 to 6 hours daily. The U.S. government has made significant progress in improving electricity supply in Iraq and distributing it more equitably throughout the country. USAID recently completed its three-year, $2.3 billion Iraq Infrastructure Reconstruction Program. Through its overall program, USAID has added 1,292 megawatts of electric generating capacity to Iraq's power grid, serving over 7 million Iraqis.

Repaired thermal units, replaced/ added turbines, rehabilitated the transmission network, and installed and restored generators.
USAID has rehabilitated or added 1,292 MW of generation capacity, through new generation, maintenance and rehabilitation work, to the grid through 42 projects, supplying power to approx 8.5 million people.
Repaired the 400 KV Khor az Zubayr-Nasiriyah transmission line.
USAID and partners rehabilitated or constructed 25 distribution substations in Baghdad to improve the distribution and reliability of electricity for more than two million residents.
Over 240 Ministry of Electricity officials, plant managers, and engineers underwent USAID training to properly operate and maintain the power plants.
USAID: Assistance for Iraq - Accomplishments: Electricity (http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplishments/electricity.html)

WASHINGTON, June 4, 2007 â?? U.S. military engineers have completed nearly 300 major water and sewage projects in Baghdad and across Iraq in the past few years, U.S. military officers reported.

â??Weâ??re proud that weâ??re continuing to reach our target of providing over 1 million cubic meters of potable water per day,â?� said Air Force Col. Lonny Baker, water sector director for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineersâ?? Gulf Region Division in Iraq. Baker is nearing the end of a six-month tour in Iraq and spoke to the media during a Baghdad news conference June 2.

Key Iraqi water-treatment facilities are now up and running in Irbil, Nasiriyah and Sadr City, as well as in numerous rural-areas, Baker said. About 290 water-treatment projects in Iraq have been completed out of a planned 400-plus, he added.

The U.S. government has provided more than $2 billion toward refurbishment of Iraqâ??s water- and sewage-treatment infrastructure. Thereâ??re still 100 or so water projects left to complete, including well-drilling projects, pumping stations, pipelines and storage tanks, Baker said.

â??While our large projects are certainly important, I want to emphasis that our smaller projects are equally important,â?� he said. â??There are over 70 small rural water projects that are important to those outlying communities.â?�
DefenseLink News Article: U.S. Military Engineers Improve Iraqi Water, Sewer Services (http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=46279)

But of course the left would want us all to believe it's all gloom and doom. The daisy pushers from our own country that think Jihadists can be won over with tea and cookies to some citizens of other countries that are basically jealous of us.

Don't worry though...as we plow the road you can follow looking for economic opportunities....like oil contracts; I hear Canada is good for that. :D

Have a good one!:s4:

[yokinazu]

the big problem with torture, water boarding, or enhanced interigation techniques (pick your prefered description) is the media. if the media hadnt said anything about it and no one let them know it was happening and the american people were in the dark about it well there would be no problem with it.

now i know some one here will say we have a right to know what our gov't is doing. but trust me if you new all the crap that the gov't is up to you would sleep at all. there are some things that the public just dont need to know

[fishman3811]

The problem with keeping people in the dark is that u have a situation like what the Nazis did to the Jews.Now would u want your government to kill people and since u didnt know about it its ok with you?Thats insane just keep your head in the sand buddy

[ldg420]

Now would u want your government to kill people and since u didnt know about it its ok with you?Thats insane just keep your head in the sand buddy

torture and murder are not one in the same fishman. would I want my govt to murder someone of course not but if you were to ask me if I wanted my govt to do whatever it takes to gain knowledge/information that will help to secure the individual rights and/or freedoms of me and my fellow Americans than the answer would be an overwhelming YES.

by no means at all does that make anyone in the American govt official a NAZI, these claims or comparisons are unbelievably naive and ignorant......:stoned:

[Psycho4Bud]

The problem with keeping people in the dark is that u have a situation like what the Nazis did to the Jews.

This constant "Nazi/Jew" comparison to the U.S. is really old and knocks ANY sort of legitimacy to your posts. I recall another member that used to state this on a constant basis.......you don't have any ringing in your ear do ya?

Have a good one!:s4:

[fishman3811]

You guys torture people and sometimes that torture results in death and sometimes that death is an innocent person so if u can live with that fine.But i couldnt and i would demand my government to stop torture.