Third Grow

[dejayou30]

I am at Day 19 of flower in my third grow with 9 Master Kush. My bins drain completely this time around and my roots are super huge which I think I owe to the drainage. I am having some yellowing for some reason, but I just changed the res and upped the PPM to 1100 last night so hopefully they will turn around. The plants really took off in veg which I was not expecting, so I had to tie a few of the plants down to keep them away from the 1KW HPS bulb.

The first pic is my whole grow area, except a couple on the right got cut off. My room is too small to get far enough back to fit everything in. Second pic is the 4 plants on the right side and they are looking pretty good. One of the plants on this side is showing some yellowing in the main fan leaves but nothing major *yet*. The third pic is the left side, which is kinda the shaky side. Lots of yellowing on multiple plants. The last two pics are of my roots on each side. They got really big this time around! :jointsmile: They look sloppy in the last pic but the bin was still draining from the first feeding of the day.

Hopefully I will be able to update this log with photos of positive growth! :jointsmile::thumbsup:

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Dejayue,

Very impresive grow so far.
Sorry I am a soil grower so I have no pointers for your current issues.

[Weedhound]

Deja....I think you may have the opposite problem now....too MANY roots.....you have MILLIONS. I think you may need to put them in a bigger container. Deja.....something to think about.....can you switch them to a DWC grow with some airstones or something. My problem is from too many roots.....I think yours may be as well.

[Weedhound]

Jesus dude.....nice roots. :thumbsup:

[dejayou30]

I really don't have any vertical space to spare with a bigger bin and I don't really know how to go about setting up a DWC. The plants are also completely bound together because of the root growth so if I did get bigger bins, they would have to use the same lid and I don't know how feasible that is. I'm hoping I can yield enough so that I can take a break from growing and maybe try a new technique. I haven't had as much luck as I thought I would with my current set up so something has to change.

[Weedhound]

Can you grab a photo of your room pretty quick when you have a chance. What you would need for a DWC is a large rubbermaid tub tub with lid....(how about the tub you are using as a res??) and hang them in the large tub...they can all be intermixed no problem....then a few airstones (many as you can) and an air pump to drive them and your nute solution. (check out my thread on how I built mine) How long dimensions of the lids the are in?

I'd agree with going to a different technique...i seriously think this time your problem is that that your plants are too big for your system and are rootbound. They need more room and they are sqeezing each other out for oxygen and nutrition.

They look great but you CAN see them starting to have issues. Good luck.

[dejayou30]

Here's my room. The only thing is, how would I get the tangled roots out of the lids they are into get them into a new bin? And how does the pumping and res and all that work in DWC? If I used a huge bin, wouldn't I need an even huger res? :wtf:

The lid dimensions is probably 18"x32". They are the ~7 gallon Rubbermaid bins from Wal Mart that cost me $3 each.

[Weedhound]

You have enough room......you won't have to add any height. No central res; each rubbermaid tub IS your res....one for each set of plants. You move those little tables, buy a couple rubbermaids that are big enough (but not too big) to fit the lids of your plants...same dimensions or slightly smaller. (Tip: You might even get take a bigger rubbermaid like the rubbermaid you have and cut the top of it to fit your smaller lid....you may need some extra support for the lid however....) You will need to be able to drill (or punch) 2 holes near the top of the rubbermaid to put add 2 1/4 inch airlines and two airpumps that will power at least a 30-60 gallon fishtank and four 10 inch airstones ((2 in each rez) I'll dig up a link to the kind I use to try and get some photos.

Fill tubs 1/2 way with your nute solution....add 2 10 inch airstones per bucket (hot gluing them to bottom helps) Usually 30-60 gal air pumps have two outlets in each pump and will power 2 airstones. Hang plants accross top letting bottom of roots dangle in the water. You should have the lower 1/2 of your roots in the water. (consider this when buying your rubbermaid....and that the roots WILL grow more.)

Now wait....I KNOW what you are thinking but its not the same as your deal. This is pretty much my setup and my plants generally work out ok right? Trust me here. The two airstones will circulate your mix and add plenty of O2 to the roots and help circulate both to those millions of roots. Your plants will draw up the water and the nutes as needed from the roots in the water. Thats called a deep water culture setup.

You'd be adding nutes and water directly from the top. Check and add water or nutes/adjust ph etc as often as necessary. No more ebb and flow.....plants stay this way 24/7. The key is enough airstones/oxygen, room for the roots, and keeping careful track of the plants' intake.

[Weedhound]

HA HA they look like huge christmas trees stuck in a little teeny pot. Those babies need more room!!

I know you aren't....but I'm pretty excited here. I honestly do not feel you have the same problem as your previous grows and I think a DWC will solve a lot of problems for you....very simple upkeep compared to what you are doing now. The plants look excellent generally despite their issues and the roots fucking rock!!

[dejayou30]

I am going to check out my options as far as bin sizes tonight after work. DWC seems like its just too simple. Just put the roots in water with some O2 and they grow? Sounds too good to be true!

I am hoping I can find some bins that will match my current lid size, but next time I flower I will probably alter the original lid so I can just switch the net pots over to flower when the time is right. Would it be acceptable to keep using the 4" pots? I was thinking I could use E&F for veg since the roots don't get too massive in veg, and then just move the net pots over to flower in the DWC bins. Would this work or are the 4" net pots choking the roots also?

I'm really hoping that since its before the half way mark, I can get these plants into a bigger container so I can finally get the kind of yiled I should be getting from my 1KW HPS bulb in order to properly celebrate April 20th!

Thanks for yor help as always Weedhound. Unfortunately I have to spread the rep around before giving you any more!

[dejayou30]

I picked up a 50 gallon res and two of those bubble curtain things. I like the amount of bubbles they produce compared to the stones. The stones seem to get clogged faster too. The only thing is keeping them suctioned to the bottom, but I am going to use glue to hold them down. So I will have a total of three bubble curtains in there because I have an extra one in my grow room after I switched back to the stone because it was too late to glue it down and the suctions didn't work. I'm just going to lay the two lids with my plants in them across the top of the 50 gallon bin for the next 4.5 weeks and cover the open area not covered by the lids with a trash bag and some mylar. Pretty ghetto, but hopefully it will do the trick. The fungus gnats are also back... :(

[Weedhound]

Deja....check out the last page of my C crowd thread.....link in my sig......what X-Crispi says about root suffocation.

I'd use something other than plastic to cover your dark spots.....even a towel or something would be better just because there is some air exchange with a towel or paper vs plastic.

I too have turned ghetto for the last few weeks of my grow. We seem to be battling the same issue.

I hope that works for you.....you deserve a good grow.

[xcrispi]

Ghetto or not you've given the roots tons more space :thumbsup:,

And DWC is that easy Deja . I wouldn't worry about the roots soufocating quite yet , you'll notice ph drop once they are really rotting good . Weedhound just cant get air to penetrate the giant mass / cube of roots in the upper halves of her containers . Your root system while huge , looks to be still penetrable by the air bubbles . I love the air curtains too BTW . less clog , no disenegration , washable -n- reuseable .

I think they'll come back strong and show you some love in return .
Peace bro.
Crispi :jointsmile:

Is your avvy a young Dave Mustaine ?

[Weedhound]

That boy has some roots THIS TIME doesn't he?? :D

[rhizome]

WH- have you looked @ the Ario aerators? Whole sh^tload of aeration compared to airstones, now that yer getting into straight DWC. Better distribution through the res, too.

[Weedhound]

Deja....sorry to bust your thread but rhiz could you check my log and let me know what you think about these damn roots? I don't want to nurse that damn thing along if cracking it open isn't really going to help. I'd LOVE your thoughts.

[dejayou30]

Ok, conversion was completed in ~90 minutes. The old system is cleaned and on backup in case this one fails for some reason *knock knock*. The roots are starting to gradually sag into the water from the brick shape it was from being cramped into those bins. How much of the root mass should be in the water vs out of the water?

The only problem we ran into is that the sides of the res bow when filled half way with water, but the good thing is that duct tape holds them where they should be! :thumbsup:

Weedhound: Since you wouldn't use plastic to cover the open area because of air flow, would it be OK to just leave it open? The foliage is THICK over the area, so not much light can get through. The only real danger would be leaves falling in there and getting in the water/roots and maybe doing harm? I dunno, I'm new to this whole DWC thing obviously.:jointsmile: Here are some pics!

[Weedhound]

As long as you have your airstones going you can let alot dangle....at least 1/2 but more is ok. Its good to have a few inches between your net pots and your water level.
Check your ppms every day....going up or down?

PS....more airstones....more air happier plants....never hurts to add extras....;)

[dejayou30]

I think I might pick up a couple more curtains and another dual pump so I can put some on the ends. My only question is how in the hell I am going to clean this thing! What do you guys/gals do for maintainance and how often?

[dejayou30]

Well, a minor setback. The walls of the bin I selected are way too thin and one side collapsed, almost causing my plants to fall into my res! :mad: I used a big board and some bungee straps and wrapped the bungee around and put the board on the side that was bowing out to hold it firm. It is working pretty well for now. *knock knock*

I still think cleaning this new res is going to be quite a task because of how bushy my plants are and how small my room is. I have no where to put them in the mean time of cleaning the res. Can anyone reading this give me some insight on what you do to maintain your DWC res? Do you take the plant(s) out and scrub the res down or do you just pump the old water out and fill it up with new water?

[Weedhound]

Hey Deja....do the plants like it? My biggest rez is 20 gal and has a stop valve at the bottom so you can let the water out and then I fill from the top. Do you have room for a third tub (same size or something.....) that you can put the plants on. I use an extra square tub that I keep around and lift the plants out of one and put them on the other while I work. You wouldln't have to leave this tub in the growroom....bring it in on res change day.

[Weedhound]

Another thought....you can buy a few tubs and put one inside the other to support that weak side.

[dejayou30]

I think the wood will work for the next four weeks, at which time I will find a sturdier tub. The res is like 3.5' long and my room is only about 5' wide. I really don't have ANYWHERE in the room to put the plants because they got so big! I also can't get them through the door of the room very easily. I literally only have enough space for my plants, systems, a set of shelves, and one person in my grow room. :(

Do you scrub your res out every time you change or do you just drain and refill?

[Weedhound]

No I just drain and refill normally. At the very end of the grow I disinfect everything with bleach water, but not during the grow.

[carinia]

Man i cant wait to do a dwc. Thats what im going to do next winter instead of this soil grow junk I got goin on. Soils work well in the smmer when im out in the garden everyday.. but lugging all this soil and pots and junk around my yard in the winter doesnt make me feel safe. :) And it just seem such a simple (cheap) way to get into hydro grows. :)

[Weedhound]

It reallly is simple and cheap and you can get pretty much what you need between home depot and your local pet store.....or of course your local hydro store if you have one around.

PS....lugging water gets to feel just about as heavy as lugging soil.......plan for easy filling and emptying. ;)

[dejayou30]

To WH or anyone else that reads this and happens to grow or has tasted Master Kush:

What does your MK taste like? I don't think mine tastes as good as it should. It doesn't smell much, tastes sort of sweet, but the taste is sort of a little green and is on the harsh side of smooth if you know what I mean.

I currently have Headband ([OGK X MK] X Sour Diesel) and Lime Daddy (Lime X Grand Daddy Purp) from Northern Cali that I traded a friend some of my homegrown for, and it tastes so incredible and yet very different and I really want to develop the taste of my bud to the best it can be.

I dried at Jorge's recommended temps and humidity and it took about 4-5 days depending on the size of the bud. By the time they are dry, they don't have much smell either. I then cure them, opening twice a day for 15 minutes at a time and storing in a dark, cool place.

I just don't know where my problem lies in getting the outstanding taste and smell I should be getting. Any ideas?

[Weedhound]

Well.....I must say all mine taste the same.....to me at least.....they all taste like an off version of cigerettes so I'm afraid I'm no help there.

The SMELL however.....pretty strong from the MK and sort of piney smelling. That's a strain I've always enjoyed the scent of.....somewhat unique but very enjoyable.

I'm wondering if your plants being stressed in the last grow has something to do with the lack of smell and taste.

Ps...When I dont' flush enough my weed takes on a nasty sort-of "metallic" taste to it that I hate. The weed also seems more dry, almost over dry and crumbles easily.

[dejayou30]

Day 27 today. I got a double air pump and two more air stones that I put right up underneath the roots to provide more air. There is a lot of brown sludgy looking stuff on all the roots under the water. Is that normal?

Some of the leaves on my biggest plant are curling downward at the tips for some reason. There is also some yellowing that seems to be starting. I am going to swap some water out for some fresh stuff tomorrow, at which time I will post some pics.

[sublime27]

I unfortunately cant offer any advice on the dwc system as I have no experience with it but I am thinking that it will be a cheap way to get experience in a hydro system and the results look amazing, so I definately am looking into it for next round and this looks like a great thread to get valuable information, so thank you and Good luck with everything. :thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

Deja...are you using a zyme product? If so stop if you would and when you whip up your next res batch can you add some H202? If you are using the 35% I would add 2 mls per gallon.

[Weedhound]

Also..what are your numbers.....check all your roots and make sure they have enough room in the tub.

I don't like the sound of brown sludge. How does the water smell? I think you need some H202 in there......

[dejayou30]

The water itself smells fine. Smells kinda like the Sweet I'm using. My pH has been around 5.5, my PPM is around 1250, and my temps are at around 67. I am not currently using a zyme, but I picked up some Hygrozyme today and was planning on using it tomorrow. The stuff on the roots is not so much a sludge as it is like a weird brown underwater fuzziness. I know thats a pretty poor description, but I tried taking a picture and I can't seem to get a good shot of it. Maybe I can try again tomorrow when there isn't as much water in there.

I used H2O2 yesterday, probably about a tbsp worth. It was the last of the bottle but I picked up some more of that today too. Should I dilute the H2O2 before applying it to the root zone? I was reading that Ask Lucas thread crispi gave me and it said you should never add nutes to the root zone without diluting them, so would H2O2 be the same way?

[Weedhound]

That is not a bad idea at all.....I generally use the 3% so I don't worry about dilution but yes, a good idea to mix up the 35% in some water and then add to your res. I like the idea of H202 better than a zyme at this point.....I want some extra O2 to your roots as well. ;)

[dejayou30]

Well, things aren't going exactly as planned. The wall of the res opposite the piece of wood is caving inward now. I changed out 10 gallons the other night and refreshed with new nutes, currently sitting right at 1300 PPM. I really don't know what to do about this bin I am using as my res. I already glued three bubble curtains to the bottom and they are $5 a pop so I don't want to have to go buy new ones. I was thinking about putting a tiny hole in the bin and anchoring it to the wall with some hemp. All I really need is to hold the wall of the res up because its too weak. Its currently low enough to where its sitting right at the water level. Its really strange how its ended up caving in so bad.

All in all though my plants look pretty healthy. There is some slight yellowing but I think that might have been due to my 10 day old res before I topped it off. Hopefully I will get some pics tomorrow after I decide what to do with my res.

[Weedhound]

Deja....can you go buy another two of them....exact same thing and stack one inside the other.....it will double the strength of your sides.

[dejayou30]

I think I am going to pick up another bin tonight. Do you think I should put the old one inside the new one or just do away with the old one because its caved in on one side? Also, do you think just one more will be fine or should I get two more? I am only wondering because they are $20 a piece and I'd rather only have to spend $20 on one more if I don't need three.

[Weedhound]

Put the old one inside the new one.....that will double the strength of the sides. We use the big plastic trashcans for our horses and they bump and bend them.....2 or 3 big trashcans one inside the other solves the problem. If it's good for horses.....it's good for your plants....:D

edit....I'd hope two would be plenty.......

[dejayou30]

Well, I picked up two just in case. I only fill it about half full, maybe a little more, so hopefully two should do the trick and I can just take the other one back. I'm trying out with a new band tonight so I'll update with the results and photos later on.

[Weedhound]

Good luck in tryouts....what do you play?

sounds good about the tub....wouldn't hurt to keep a third around if one springs a leak. ;)

[dejayou30]

I play bass, but the tryout was a bust. I went to the practice space which is a storage facility and the dude wouldn't answer his phone, and then it was just turned off. It was just some metal band I was going to check out because the singer of my last band sings for them now. I just wanted to jam because my other band only practices weekly.

Anyways, since there was no tryout, you get pictures of my nasty looking roots sooner! The ones on the right of the bin are the sad black looking ones, but the ones on the left are only black and nasty on the very inner edge of the root mass. My only guess, aside from root rot, is that it could be from when I apply the pH down. If so, whats the best way to go about this? How much should I dilute it before putting it in the res? Or maybe its just root rot and it doesn't matter.

It ended up taking THREE bins to hold the water straight. The 50 gallon Rubbermaid Duratotes from your local department store are VERY weak sided and thin. All in all though, I'd say my situation is pretty good though. I have half the plants looking very healthy, and while the other half have black roots and yellowing leaves, they don't look all that bad. They are at least better than the worst plants during my last grow so it technically IS an improvement, however still a sad one.

I added 3 tbsp of H202 and I am sitting at 5.6 pH and 1000 PPM at 67 degrees. Here are the pics, get ready to vomit! The first one is the right side, inward from the top. The second is also the left side from a level view inside the bin. Third one is the left side, which is the healthy looking side. Fourth is the bottom of the left side (see how only the edge closest to the inside is black?:wtf:) And the fifth one is my ladies.

Now I need some advice! Go for it.:jointsmile:

[Weedhound]

What
The
Fuck? :eek:

Holy SHIT! What happened there?!!! You had the most gorgeous roots EVER!

Thats some sort of rot for sure....that's not ph down. Can't remember if you know this already but but 1 teaspoon equals 5ml....in case you can't measure mls directly. so you added 15 mls....you have about 30 gals of water?

I'd like you to do that without fail every OTHER day or anytime you change and/or add water.
You REALLY need to hit that hard and fast Deja. There are some folks here who use a larger amount of H202 than the dose I gave you (which I got from my hydro man) so that may be something you want to think about . I'm telling you so that you have all the options I can think of to work with.

there was another post.....brb....

[dejayou30]

Yeah, I'm not sure what happened. the only thing I can think of is that I didn't add the two airstones on the end until 4 days after I put them in the new res, so maybe it was just too long? The picture makes it look worse than it is I think. I should have taken an underside shot of the right side because its probably about 60% white roots and black on the inside. Do you think I need even more air stones? I have three bubble curtains and two 10" stones in there right now.

I will start adding the H2O2 regularly. Is 2.5 gallons enough water to dilute it?

[rhizome]

Nasty, but it's not recent damage. I'm not even gonna hazard a guess at what the original trauma was.

If ya look for em, you can see some healthy root growth moving into the damage zone, and no much that's dieing- plenty that's dead. I'm thinking that they'll heal better/quicker if you can get the rotting stuff and slime out

Ya sure do got some bio-slime going there, tho. Yer gonna want to put a screen over your return, disconnect it from the res, put a jumper over to your waste drain/bucket. Now block the return so the table can't drain, flood it, and massage those roots by hand to comb out the really loose, rotting crap, and knock off a little bit of the slime. Dump the now nasty table full of nute, fill the res w/ plain ph'd water, and rinse everything. If yer water isn't municipally chlorinated, ya might wanna add maybe a drop of bleach per 5 gallons. Easy, though...

Dump and clean out the res before ya call it done- really not likely to be much of a problem area, but it's really easy to service.

Ya might wanna think about a bacterial innoculant, if only to compete w/ whatever the hell that is.



Does this table stay wet / get anaerobic? Shit can't sit in still water- goes sour.

[Weedhound]

Oh thank god.....for two reasons.

1. Rhizome knows a HELL of a lot better than I do what to do here.

2. I'm not the only one who doesn't know what that is.......

Rhiz this has happened in all three of his grows. He uses Botanicare. WTF is that?

[Weedhound]

I googled "bio-slime"......all I got was a movie title.....:(

[rhizome]

It's probabley not the nutes, unless they've gone bad. Kinda hard to miss. Botanicare stuff does have a lot of sucrose in it, so it can go pretty bad- but it's usually tough to miss.

It's a bacterial infection- otherwise known as rot. The slime on the outside is just whatever psuedos happen to have got hold first- not great, as they block gas exchange and inhibit water movement, but not usually world ending.

I associate that particular grey-green-black w/ anaerobic infections, but that's really just a gut.

Didn't realize Deja had gone DWC- How much mass is he trying to support on how many air pumps?

[rhizome]

I googled "bio-slime"......all I got was a movie title.....:(

Try " bioslime" , no hyphen.

[Weedhound]

Tried to rep you....must have recently.....Thanks Rhizome...and thanks for clone info.
I will google bioslime....;)

[Weedhound]

The Growing Edge Magazine - Bioslime Can Wreak Havoc (http://www.growingedge.com/magazine/back_issues/view_article.php3?AID=180426)

[dejayou30]

Thanks for lending your expertise rhizome.

I'm currently running one single fish tank air pumps and two double pump, both from Wal Mart, Aqua Culture brand. I don't know what they are rated at. They are connected to two 10" Air stones and three bubble curtains. Each end has a 10" stone and the curtains are on the middle of the bin spaced across the bottom. I have 5 plants per side.

So what you are saying is I should just get my hand in there and get the muck out and then use some kind of antibacterial something? Would that be like Hygrozyme? I had been using H2O2 probably every 3-4 days but I am starting to do every other day as of today.

Thanks for the help all! :jointsmile:

[dejayou30]

Well I got in and did my best to get the slimy stuff off the roots and then fished out the floating stuff with my skimmer. I think the damage might have been caused from them sitting in too stagnant of water without those two airstones for 4 days because it looks like there are already new roots growing through most of the nasty shit. I also did a lot of Googling before bed last night and found a lot of different threads about root rot that said Hygrozyme was beneficial in fighting against it and promoted vigorous root growth so I added 150 mL of that in last night. The bottle suggested 10 mL/gal and I only added 5 mL/gal because 300 mL seemed like a ton, and that stuff is like $45 a bottle. Hopefully things will turn around from here.

Do you (WH or rhizome) think I need more pumps/stones in there? I've only got 3.5 weeks to go so I don't need them dying now! :thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

Seems like you have several if new roots are growing through the old stuff. Make sure your hygrozyme is compatible with the peroxide....I can't remember which zyme products are ok with H202.

I'd also watch your roots carefully....if they start to go down again then I'd add more airpumps and airstones. (Ps....I suggested two oriiginally because for some reason I thought you would use 2 big res's instead of one huge one but you went with the big boy!! :D)

Keep us updated Deja......still want you to come through with 100%....(or close to anyway......;))

[rhizome]

Air pumps and stones are cheap. Run a shitload.

[Weedhound]

:thumbsup:
Air pumps and stones are cheap. Run a shitload.

Out of the best minds come the best answers.....
:jointsmile:

[dejayou30]

Well, I seem to have my roots back in working order for the last 2.5 weeks of my grow. There is still goo and crap that I am cleaning out every day but its getting much better. The left side is growing thick dense furry roots and the right side is growing long ladders. Also the flowers on my biggest plants just keep getting bigger and bigger and its awesome. They are really getting a chance to fill out with the ability to have a larger root structure. Moving to DWC was a great move! :thumbsup::jointsmile:

[Weedhound]

Oh thank GOD! Good work Deja. I thought you were going to come and say... well never mind.

How about a photo? Master Kush has that lovely "piney" scent imo.

[Weedhound]

Are we going to make 100% here?

[dejayou30]

Its looking like it. There is one that is questionable and I'm not really sure why. The leaves are starting to get dry and crispy around the tops. I'm at day 38 right now, so not too far out now. Hopefully it will make it although three will be barely crawling across the finish line. I have three out of 9 that are pretty sickly, but the other 6 are looking pretty nice. My lady was the last to use my camera so I'm not sure where its at, but I'll get some pics here soon.

I am hoping next time will be much more successful because I think the roots got too tangled and the huge plants choked out the smaller ones. Then I got the root rot and it all kinda went downhill. Over all though, I think I should have a heavier yield than I did last time. Small improvements! :thumbsup:

I also need to rethink my aeration. The curtains don't stick to the bins on their own so I tried to glue them and two of three came up and the last one is only holding on by a suction cup. What do you other DWCers use for aeration?

[Weedhound]

I personally like airstones but I'm fairly new at DWC myself. The "big gun" boys generally recommend those "flexible air diffusers" but I've never tried them myself.

Well understandable that we were somewhat behind the eight ball here.....last grow your roots were about an inch long. When you came on here and put out your new root photo for THIS grow I just about FAINTED they were so huge, lol.

Love to see a photo when you can. :)

[dejayou30]

My only qualm with airstones is that when I stir the res, they move around, and if I glue them down, I can't take them out to clean them. I have looked at the flexible tubes, but do they sink? It looks like they would float from the pics...? :wtf:

I think I also need some small time odor control. The living room sits directly above my garden and with less than 2 weeks to go things are getting pretty stinky. Is there an effective air freshener I can put in the room to help with the odor? I have my exhaust fan running into my chimney as of now but apparently that isn't enough to combat the smell.

[Weedhound]

Sorry Deja all I know about odor control is that generally people use "carbon scrubbers" and that is the end of my knowledge on that one....:(

[dejayou30]

I started flushing last night at day 42. I'm just using regular water and sucanat. I will post some pics of my ladies tonight!

[Weedhound]

Great! I'm DYING to see some photos of them. ;)

[Shovelhandle]

Me too!
I'm fasinated with these hydro grows, especially from the people who are just beginning to get it together.

Shov

[dejayou30]

Great! I'm DYING to see some photos of them. ;)

Obviously, I forgot to post photos, but don't get too excited. Only one or two of them looks very good. The rest suffered big from the root bound issues and then root rot. :( I'll post some tonight so you can see what I mean.

[Weedhound]

You know Deja that may be but I'm still feeling pretty good.....I think we have crossed the final hurdle here. Next time you'll notice problem signs quicker and be able to avoid the bigger issues and get you one solid good grow.

[dejayou30]

Yeah I'm pretty sure I just had not enough air stones which led to the root rot. Next grow, I am going to do fewer plants and see what happens. I'm also going to cover the entire bottom of the res with stones. I'm hoping I can have 5 big healthy bushes instead of 3 big plants and 5-7 scraggly half dead ones as I have had. I'm gonna take some new clones tonight and move my mother into a DWC bucket by herself and then I'll post some pics. :thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

That sounds like a great idea.....I went to lesser but larger plants as well and I prefer it too.

[dejayou30]

Well, here they are. Before I took the pics I skimmed out about 10 lbs of slime out of the res!:wtf: Its this weird semi translucent gel like crap mixed with dead roots. I really don't know what it is, but luckily I only have 9 days until I start harvesting. I have been cleaning a fair amount of it out every day and it just never stops.

I also took a pic of my mother and my new clones for your viewing pleasure. :thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

Lol...yeah you just have too much "plant" there Deja..........looks like the blob climbing up out that bin its such a big mass of plant. I agree with your plan of less plants/bigger for next time.

Your clones and mom look great! Hope I can learn to do clones as well and healthy looking as yours are.

[dejayou30]

I'm pretty sure my roots are rotting big time. I have been scooping insane amounts of slime out of the res, and when I do, the pH goes up. The air stones are also getting completely clogged with slime, which I am sure furthers the root rot. I am glad I am only a week away from harvest so I can have some time to rethink this DWC set up and get some air stones in there that will stay put and provide enough air for my roots.

[Weedhound]

Yeah..you're a real bum for overgrowing these plants....:D

Seriously I think you are right here and just need to get things to "fit".

[dejayou30]

Tonight I am going to refresh the res and clean all the airstones and scoop out as much crap as I can. If the roots are so rotted to where they aren't taking in nutrients, does this cause the plant to consume itself? If so, will this affect the finished product in any way, i.e. slow maturation of the trichromes? Should I be overly worried about root rot with only 6 days left until harvest? :wtf:

[Weedhound]

Quite honestly I am not sure........RHIZOME......??

[rhizome]

If you've only got a week, I'd just limp em through- you're going to lose weight, but it shouldn't slow down maturity.

Seriously, have a look @ the ario aerators- they seem pricey until something like this happens.

Bleach the living sh*t out of everything ( water pumps, airstones,tubing, etc) between runs. Rinse a couple of times and let air dry.

Run a little subculture/voodoo juice/ other innoculant when you fire back up- yer system is clearly good at raising bacteria, so try to make sure that yer raising friendlies.

Don't kick yourself, guy- yer learning about the problems of being overly sucessful. Lotta folks would like to have your problems. Ya just overshot a little.

Get me stoned sometime and I'll show you how to build an aeration tower;)

[Weedhound]

Party at Deja's for Rhizome!! :D

[dejayou30]

Hahaha I only wish I could be lucky enough to smoke what you pros are growing! :jointsmile:

Well I took out 10 gallons of water, cleaned all my stones and bubble curtains, and scooped out as much slime and muck as I could. There was a ton of it stuck to the sides and it came off in big sheets. I filled up like 3" of a 5 gallon bucket with the stuff. Pretty nasty. I then tied all the air stones and curtains to 2 large rock and placed them directly under each set of roots. I had a lot of trouble with everything moving around in there so the roots probably weren't getting the best aeration but it should at least be better than it was for the last 4 weeks. Limping across the finish line for sure, but hopefully I can FINALLY nail it next time since I am going to 1) start with DWC from the beginning, 2) do fewer plants and 3) have better aeration.

I looked at the Ario aerators just now. My only concern is that they diffuser is foam which seems like it wouldn't stand up to being cleaned very well. The site I read said no maintenance required? Is that true? If not, how often do you clean it and how long does one typically last?

My other option was to use these pretty massive grey stones my hyro store has. I bought one for my mother's bucket and it is producing tons of air and the roots are looking way healthier than they did in E&F. I also would rather go this route since I have three air pumps which would become obsolete if I got the Ario.

I was going to buy 8 of these at $5 each and get one more double pump for $12, so thats $52. If I went the Ario route, I would probably get 4 Ario 2s, which would cost me at little more than my other plan by about $20. I think that would be plenty for 5 plants in a 50 gallon res... right? Anyways, cost isn't so much of a factor as efficiency and life expectancy, so what do you guys think is my best bet?

Also, as always, thanks for the help! :jointsmile::thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

Having never tried EITHER I'm bouncing that one right back to Rhizome. ;)

[dejayou30]

What do you use for aeration Weedhound?

[Weedhound]

Well I'm a super noobie at the DWC so right now I'm using ten inch airstones from the pet store (also available at Walmart pet section)
but I may change depending on how these do. I've used airstones in my fishtanks for YEARS so have some experience with the fish ones but have never tried any of the airstones or diffusers made for hydro applications.....AS YET anyway. I plan to be using a partial DWC setup for flowering for all my plants in the future as well so if I find something I like better I'll let you know.

[rhizome]

Honestly, I really like the arios... and while I wouldn't say they're zero maintenance, it's pretty much just rinsing the diffuser.

Diaphram air pumps lose flow pretty quickly as the pores in the airstone get slimed/clogged- the arios seem to maintain full flow a lot longer.

Disclaimer- I have zero personal experiance w/ the little Arios- I've personally only used the four. However, I can state that the fours are awesome.

It really doesn't matter how you get the air in there, only that you do. Go with your judgement on what's going to get the most air in there w/in budget.

[Weedhound]

Well I'll look into them for sure because DWC is definitely going to be a part of my hydro future from now on.

[dejayou30]

Since my plants are turning yellow, does that mean the taste will be improved? I have read that nitrogen is what makes the taste harsher and letting your plants yellow out before you harvest will improve the taste, so since my roots are rotten and my plants are turning yellow, will my buds taste better? :wtf:

[dejayou30]

Also, how big are these Arios and how many would I need for a 50 gallon res that's like 3'x2'?

[dejayou30]

Anyone have any insight?

[Weedhound]

Deja Im the wrong one to ask here on both those......my plants don't really yellow out as a rule and to me everything tastes quite similar......maybe because I smoked cigerettes for about 30 years and my taste buds are dead.....or both.

Those airos.....I'm going to look into them for my 10 gal tubs but know 0 about them right now.

[dejayou30]

Bummer.

Well, my plants are getting too yellow now and the leaves are starting to get crispy so I shut out the lights until tomorrow. I'm going to try to harvest them all tomorrow at day 50. The last two times they have all finished between 49-54 days and all the internet sources I have read say MK finishes in 7-7.5 weeks so hopefully they are done.

[Weedhound]

Deja any chance you could get a good photo of the yellowing leaves for me before you chop? Strictly my curiosity here......no real insight to offer......

[dejayou30]

Yeah I will take one tomorrow before I chop them, but basically just imagine my plants as pictured earlier in this thread only now completely yellow. Hopefully they taste alright, thats all I'm really worried about. I think my yield will probably be about the same as last time by the looks of things.

[dejayou30]

I harvested all 9 plants today on day 50 to save them from the down slide they were on and to save the leaves from becoming too crispy to use for hash. Took me and my partner 8.5 hours to trim. I checked the trichs from each plant and all were cloudy, most were around 10% amber or so. Here are some pics.

First we have the crusty ladies, second is the top row of my drying room, third is the lower row, and fourth is my bin of clippings for hash/tincture.

[dejayou30]

The fresh buds are sitting in 50% humidity and 69 degrees. I'm hoping they dry a little slower this time so they aren't as harsh and greenish tasting. Not that it was bad, it just wasn't what it should have been. How long does it usually take for you guys to dry? Do you take smaller buds out of the drying process before bigger buds or do they generally take the same time? I really want to nail this part of the process because I don't think I have it quite yet. Last time I dried around 69 degrees with 30-40% humidity and they dried in 4 days. Do you think that is what made them crispy and more on the harsh side?:wtf:

[Mr. Clandestine]

Great looking haul! :thumbsup: I'm about 7 weeks away from harvest, and fresh out of smoke, so needless to say, I'm feeling the need to comment on just about every successful harvest I see. Impatience is growing...

My buds generally take a few days longer to dry at about 70F and with a lower humidity (in the 20s), but I also wait until the buds are dry to do all my trimming... with the exception of the large fan leaves. Then they go in jars. If you notice that a single bud or group of buds has dried out too quickly, you can always start curing them before the rest and reintroduce some moisture that way. If you have any live fan leaves that can be borrowed indefinitely, they can be tossed inside the jars for added moisture and they won't affect the final smell/taste of the buds.

[dejayou30]

Thanks Mr C. I tried putting a fan leaf in a jar with some overly dried buds last time and it mostined things up but also made the jar and buds smell like fresh cut grass. It mostly went away a few days after I took it out but a little bit of the smell remained so I am nervous about putting any leaves in there. I really just want to dry them right so I don't need any leaves. I guess I will just have to keep a close eye on them.

I was also wondering about fast drying my clippings. I have a fan on the top of the bin in the picture sucking air out for the past two days and the clippings were near dry this morning. Will drying them fast affect the quality of my hash? My reasoning is that since I'm just using the trichs and not the crystals it shouldn't matter, but I don't know if that's true or not. Anyone?

[Mr. Clandestine]

My reasoning is that since I'm just using the trichs and not the crystals it shouldn't matter, but I don't know if that's true or not.

Yep, quick drying often leaves a "green" taste of chlorophyll in the buds and leaves, but since you're not using the green matter, it won't matter. Trichs should be unaffected.

And I've only added fan leaves to the jar a couple of times in the past, when the buds dried so fast that they crumbled to dust when broken up. Adding the leaves helped get some moisture back in the buds, but they were still pretty crispy. I imagine that on buds that aren't quite as dry it would have a more noticeable effect. I don't remember any of those buds smelling like grass WHEN they got smoked, but I'm sure they did while the leaves were in there. I wouldn't keep a leaf in the jar for more than a few days anyway. Eventually they'll begin to attract mold.

Hopefully there'll be no need of that for you this time around, and they'll dry evenly and slowly. Enjoy them when that time comes! :jointsmile:

[Weedhound]

Go Mr C! :thumbsup:

[sublime27]

congrats deja on a fine looking harvest!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[dejayou30]

I have to spread some rep around before repping any of you guys/gal again, so consider this a + rep until I can again. :jointsmile:

I finished mixing my bucket about an hour ago, so only three more hours to wait for the settling. I was thinking that seems long, but I will willingly wait unless someone says otherwise. I think I'm going to get a lot higher yield this time. Last time, I only got 2.4 g out of approximately 3 oz of trim. Like an idiot, I forgot to squeeze out the net after I strained the the leaves out, so I'm sure I lost some yield. This time I made sure to get every last drop of that golden water. :thumbsup: I also strained it through cheese cloth and a fish tank net twice and got a lot of small green leaf pieces, so hopefully it will be more pure.

I am also struggling with keeping my drying room above 40% humidity and the temp around 70. It dropped to 63 last night which seems way low. I tried putting a space heater inside and it was up to 77 in like 45 seconds, so I put it outside the door all day and it was 68 when I got off work, which is what the heat was set on in the house. Not sure what else to do, but I want to make sure and dry them nice and slow this time.

[dejayou30]

Sad, only 2.4 g which is exactly what I got last time! :wtf: It is much more pure this time although still not 100% since I just used the gumby method and no bags. Just kind of sad about the yield. I also saved 10 g of my clippings to use for tincture that I am going to make this weekend! :jointsmile:

I put a cup of water in my drying closet and it bumped the RH to 50% and I turned the heat up to 70 so everything is great in that department.

Now I am going to bed, it is much too late for me to be up!

Peace.

[Weedhound]

I know NOTHING about hash. Whats the gumby method?

[dejayou30]

The gumby method is where you put the trimmings in a bucket of water with a bunch of ice and mix it with a mixer for 30-45 minutes while making sure it stays really cold. Then you skim the trimmings and everything out and then pour it through a filter of some kind to get all the leaves out. This leaves you with the bucket of water with hash in it. Then you let that bucket sit for 3-4 hrs so the trichs fall to the bottom and then siphon out the water until you can see the hash in the bottom. I use a piece of old hose to get the majority of the waterout and then switch to aquarium tubing when I get closer to the hash so there's not so much water to deal with. Then you pour the rest of the water/hash mixture through coffee filters (I set mine in a small colander sitting inside a big colander) to collect the hash.

Its basically the bubble bag method without the bubble bags, so its not quite as pure but its still plenty good! If you search gumby hash on here you should find a detailed video. Its pretty easy and only takes a couple hours aside from the waiting time.

What do you do with your trimmings usually, Weedhound?

[Weedhound]

Well wish me luck.........we are going to try this Deja; thanks for the idea. I usually use the stuff to make cookies with but wanted to try some simple hash making and this sounds easy enough that even I could do it.

[dejayou30]

Well, the totals are in. 4.75 oz (up .5 oz from last time), 2 grams of hash, and 6 oz of tincture from 9 plants. Overall I am pretty pleased but I am definitely looking forward to fewer but larger plants so they can get really beastly! :thumbsup:

My clones just started showing roots a couple days ago so I planted them in my system. Unfortunately, the bin smells like bleach which makes me think I didn't rinse everything well enough. I used a 10:1 dilution to clean everything and then ran it under hot hot hot water for about 5 minutes so hopefully its just really clean and smells like bleach and there's not actually bleach in my system. My plants have been in it for 2 days now and they look alright so hopefully they don't die. If they do, my mother is getting HUGE in her bucket so I have plenty of clippings if I need them.

[Weedhound]

You'd have seen something by now if you were going to. You can always buy some fish "dechlorinator" and put that in when you rinse......that'll GUARANTEE to get rid of any chlorine bleach that might be left behind.

Deja check out my thread.....I bought some flexible air diffusers like Rhizome recommended and THEY ROCK! Get yourself a good pump and they will KICK ASS!

Just bought a hand mixer yesterday.....wish me luck with the gumby hash. :D