PH KEEPS RISING! PLEASE HELP!!!

[rapt44]

Hello, I am running a recirculating top feed drip system in six of the 5 gallon buckets with pure hydroton and a 10 gallon reservoir with ice to keep it cool. Feeding goes on all day with 2 minutes every 10 to help it drain. I am using the three part advanced nutrients with silica, that fulsomething acid, nectarsweet, calmag, wet betty, and supervit. I have a CO2 system. Change the water out regularly. I am using RO water.

Here's the problem. A week ago my ph began to rise, I figured it was because the plants were getting root bound, so I transplanted them into their own 5 gallon buckets with a little bit of nutriboost. They seemed to do ok, but the ph kept fluctuating. Must be root rot right? So I used some of the Zone from dutchmaster (like peroxide). Still no change. I had a clog, fixed that (don't know why but I thought that could have been affecting ph, and then maybe the metal strainers I put in to prevent the clogs are affecting it?) Anyways, simplest answer is easiest. Calibrated my ph meter, it was off. Changed out all the water. Remixed everything. Seemed to have it fixed. The ph was staying at 5.6 or 5.7 where I put it! So I discontinued the Zone applications and as I am about to go into flowering, thought Id help bulk up the roots from the transplant with some tarantuala and iguana (the fungi stuff u use with it) as well as some hygrozyme.

Yet now my ph is back to rising to 6.1/6.2 in the course of a few hours!!! I even bought a second ph meter, calibrated them both and they both confirm that the ph is now rising.

My suspicions:
1) The hygrozyme is dissolving some of the dead root mass which is raising the ph.
2) The cultures are raising the ph as they get started.
3) I am running my 6 at around 700 ppm. Adding around 10 tsp of micro, 10 of bloom, 10 of grow, 30 total (as recommended by advanced's website for light feeding a 10 gallon reservoir), to my 10 gallon reservoir, then all the additives and excellerant junk to bring it up where it needs to be. Am I not adding enough of the basic 3 part solution, the big guys are going through that in a day or two, and that is rising the ph? But by as much as 5.5 to 6.2 in a half a day? And the ppm's don't seem to be changing much.

Sorry for the long e-mail but I am stuck!!!!!! ALL HELP IS APPRECIATED AND WILL RECEIVE GOOD KARMA!

[Weedhound]

Do a search for hydroton....ph issues or high ph.....you'll have more information on your problems then you'll know what to do with.

If your hydroton isn't the issue then most likely you are burning them.

Good luck.

[Weedhound]

Also would be good idea to do a full system flush

[rapt44]

Yeah, when I did the full system flush it stablized til i added the tarantula and the iguana and the hygrozyme. I've been reading about the hydroton and high ph. So you believe I didn't pretreat the hydroton correctly? I rinsed it. I thought it was ph neutral (oh shoot does that mean at 7?)

[Weedhound]

Ok....more thorough read through. What day are you at? I personally use cannazym and have found the opposite is true...cannazym helps stabilize ph, not raise it so i'm not sure that is your problem.

When did you add this metal you are talking about? That would make me wonder if perhaps something is leaching into your water. I don't know enough about it to say but I do wonder....

How are your plants growing? Happily or do they have issues? As they get later on into flowering its normal for the ph to rise daily due to high nutrient needs. Mine generally will rise about 1 point a day (from 5.6 to 6.5 in 24 hours) so that becomes something you have to deal with if that is indeed the reason.

I personally hate hydroton with a passion (it's a personal thing :wtf:) but if you are more than 4 weeks in your hydroton should be stabilized even if you didn't pre-treat it correctly. And if it was normal before but NOW is a problem.....that doesn't really fit with "new hydroton syndrome."

[rapt44]

HMMMMM. Well I am in the transition week to flowering, although 3 are older, just over a month, and 2 are only a week or two, and another is somewhere in between. 730 ppm levels, I gave the 10-12 gallon res an extra tablespoon of micro due to what looked like some manganese deficiency in some leaves. I am highly interested that you said your levels change from 5.6 to 6.5 IN 24 HOURS!!! Holy crap is that normal? How many plants, how big a res? I have 6 in a 12 gallon res. It sounds like that could totally be it. I am Adding around 10 tsp of micro, 10 of bloom, 10 of grow, 30 total (as recommended by advanced's website for light feeding a 10 gallon reservoir), to my 10 gallon reservoir for six plants. Does that sound low to you? I think it may be. Could low nute levels cause it to change ph that much in just a few hours? Keep in mind my ppm levels don't fluctuate all that much, no signs of deficiency other than the above.

[Weedhound]

Ok I have personal issues with hydroton myself.....I think it leads to fert build up issues. I used it for about 6 months and finally changed but lots of people seem to have no problem with it so sometimes I wonder if it's just me.

I have pretty large plants in waterfarms (about 2 gals apiece) and my ph doesn't start rising like that until about week 4 of flowering and on and I used to have to adjust it constantly. Now I recirculate the nutes and that helps keep the ph down but it is considered normal pretty much at that point.

However....you aren't at that point and so yours should not be rising like that unless they are suddenly taking a huge grow jump or something. So it's pretty much up to you to watch and see if the nute level is too much which can also definitely cause ph to rise. If you want to find out for sure....drop back your ppms and see if your ph stabilizes. If so....stay on the lower side. If not....I am still wondering about the metal in your system and did you use a flushing agent when flushing the system?
Those would be my other two thoughts.

[rapt44]

Hey, thanks again for all of your help. So, I'm sure it's not too much nutes, they may even be a little low, as for hydroton, I give this a good flushing every week along with some floaclean as a salt leaching agent. And as for the metal peices, they are just those mesh screens you see in hoses, 3 for a $1.50 at the store. As they were made for water usage I don't believe they are leaking into the water and the problem started before they were put in.

I am at a new lead and would love your input. So the first time it was off, I think it was the ph meter uncalibrated. Now I have 2 that are calibrated and got problems when adding Tarantula, Pirahna, and Hygrozyme. I just remembered that I had some TEA COMPOST and FLORALICIOUS, both organics, in my reservoir. Could the Hygrozyme be reacting to the organics and causing the ph to rise by breaking them down?

[xcrispi]

I doubt root rot is / was causing your ph to rise .
Rot more often than not causes drop , not rise . I use hydroton too , I soak it in ph corrected water for 2-3 days before even introducing it into my system , and I rinse as much of the powdery crap out of it beforehand . Depending on what stage of life the plants in I get as much as .5 or more ph fluxuation per day .
I try to keep my res. somewhere between 5.5 - 6.2 . Hydro is much more maintence than soil .
Peace
Crispi :jointsmile:

[rhizome]

Mix up a couple gallons of your nute in a seperate container, drop in an airstone, and let it sit for a day or two.

If pH doesn't change, then the issue is in your system.

If pH does change, it's an interaction between chemistry and your water supply.

Get the metals out of the system- pretty much anything but stainless is asking for trouble.

Is there any precipitate at the bottom of your res?

[rapt44]

UPDATE: I woke up this morning before my pump turned on to check the ph and it was 7!!!! This means that it increased all by itself in the rezzy overnight. Also, and this is a head scratcher, the ppm's increased by almost 100 to around 820 ppm. Raising ppm and ph?! Is this hygrozyme breaking stuff down into the water, or is the bacteria/fungi growing, maybe eating some of the organics like molasses that are in there?

I've put the ph down to 5.5, and will let it drift up throughout the day. You think with it increasing as it is that if I let it drift from 5.5 to 6.5 and then put it back down once, maybe twice a day, I will be good?
Thanks again for all your help! Keep it Coming!

And Rhizome, I am currently doing a test with RO water, my organics, and the hygrozome and bacteria/fungi, to see if there is an interaction, but nothing yet.

As for the metal, these are just those little screens/aerators that you put in hoses, made to be used with water, not rusty nails or something.

As for precipitate, some, I remember in the past seeing some brown cloudiness, but most noticeably its been the wash off from the hydroton. I've cleaned my pumps filter and it doesn't seem to be getting much more in it, but yes there is stuff in there.

[rapt44]

Can root growth be causing the ph to rise?

[rapt44]

Anyone?

[Weedhound]

I don't think so.......

[rapt44]

I recently flushed and changed out the water to straight up micro grow and bloom with calmag. Only had it on for 20 min before nighttime but THE PH SEEMED TO STABILIZE. It was no longer a steady stream of .1 over out of the drainage.

What could I have been adding that caused it to do that? The hygrozyme? That or maybe the cultures.

I tested the hygrozyme in conjunction with my floralicious and compost tea alone. It did seem to raise their ph a little after first dropping it.

Also, my roots are like black, not brown(only a little of that, not like when I once had full on root rot). This dark color is normal right? Result of the floralicous which turned my res water dark?

[Weedhound]

black? got a photo? And if your ph IS still rising....Id wonder again about your metal.....something made for "water" isn't necessarily made for correct hydro ph levels.

[rapt44]

i think it has stabilized. Imagine spaghetti w watery, not chunky black sauce and the sauce poured off for the roots. I am 90% sure thats normal w organics. Have u used organicslike flloralicious before?

[Weedhound]

No i haven't. If the black stuff rinses off then I don't think you have a root problem.

[rapt44]

Well it seems to have stablilized! I changed the water and just used micro, grow, bloom, calmag, superthrive that good acid to help it digest, wet betty, and . . . hygrozyme (the last of which should clear up any dead material on the roots, like peroxide, but will allow the bacteria and fungi to stay alive).

What I have not added: floralicious, tea compost, supervit, nectarsweet (basically my organics), and dm ZONE - potassium silicate.

HOWEVER, I did tests in kitchen glasses with all the not added ones on the bottom (except zone) mixed with the hygrozyme then later cultures of bacteria and fungi. The ph first dropped, then climed about half a point. It was NOT as vigorous a ph change as what I saw in my rezzy.

SO WHAT IS HAVING THE INTERACTION? The hygrozyme and silica? The only two I haven't tested? This is weird!!!!

[Weedhound]

did you remove the metal or is that still there and still no problem?

[rapt44]

still there, not a problem

[rapt44]

if I called them washer guards would it make you feel better?

[Weedhound]

No but if they aren't causing a problem then I don't care what you call them. :)

A rising ph is often a (first!) sign of nuteburn.....I'm not saying that's your problem because I don't know but it IS something to think about. ;)

[Pepper]

It's the tarantula that is causing the pH to rise. When growing in hydro the amount recommended is way too much and causes the pH to rise like crazy. You can mix up a batch and hand water the pots once a week and it will affect the pH less. Also, you can stick with constant feeding but you probably only need 3 or 4 waterings a day for 15 min.

[rapt44]

Yo Hound, March 1st post, I already got it stabilized. It's not nuteburn. Thanks though. Oh and pepper, I have been waiting for days on about 5 boards for someone that was familiar with the products to tell me what is going on. I agree, I thought I was putting way too much in of the tarantula (the reccommended amonut). I also read that those bacteria can make ph rise for a day or two. I think you are right. Thank you, being one of the first ones to actually answer the question that was asked. What amounts do you go for of the tarantula, let's say per 5 gal? 1 tsp? 2 tsp?

[Weedhound]

How funny..... you don't consider too much Tarantula nuteburning eh? I do.

Good luck with your grow.

[rapt44]

It's not nuteburn because Tarantula is not nutes. It's bacteria. No signs of nuteburn were exhibited.

Thanks.

[Pepper]

What I do is mix up a one gallon batch w/ 1/2 tsp. and hand water into the pots instead of adding it to the reservoir. This works for me in a 25 gal ebb and flow. I also run my pH low and let it rise.

[happinessvacuum]

hey, I didn't want to read through all the posts here but I do know a few things that I wanted to share.. Hopefully this hasn't already been covered. I don't know about in flower, but I know that in veg a good way to stabilize your ph when you are using hygrozyme (which I use) is to use a humic acid. Hygrozyme is a very hy ph substance. You can even use it as a ph up. The same goes with humic acid, only the other way. You don't have to necessarily use as high as the reccomended dose, but just use it as a method to bring down your ph and the ph will generally stay lower. The best humic acid to use is going to be madfarmer's "Nutz"


I don't reccomend using nutz in flower, though, because the humic acid helps to stretch your plant, and if you use it in the first week or two it is okay but if you use it in late flower it will cause your buds to be more elongated and less dense.

The reason I ended up here, though, is because I don't know how to keep my ph stable while I am in flower, it sky rockets every day up to 7 by the time the next light cycle. I bring it back down to 5.5 and then it goes way up again. I don't know what to do.

[crazywill]

I'll put my two penny in.You are using alot of nutr,To many for me.
The organics do not mix well with alot of nutr,and dosent work well at all with cal-mag,Then using hygroze,peroxide,bateria,silica and some of the others too are fighting with each other and causing your PH to go up.You have a small res 10Gals,so it is a little harder to keep the PH stable as it is with lager 20-25 gal res.I did the same thing and that's what I found to cause my PH to go up.Now days I keep it simple GH 3-part & cal-mag to start,when flowering no more cal-mag or lower the ml's that you use.Flowering I use koolbloom or carbo load for carbs and to put weight on the buds.You are using AN nutr not all of there nutr are up to what they say.But there 3-part is good.If you dont have any problems with root rot or other root problems dont use peroxide or hygrozme,it kills bacteria and other stuff you dont want dead.Start of flowering I flush the system for 4-7 days and then start the flower nutr.This helps to drop the nitogen in the plant and will help it not to stretch as much.Do you have HARD WATER,if so use hard water mirco,it helps too.I stop using all the alot of additives and keep it simple and dont have any problems any more with PH.Somebody said it in a post,Draw your water put a air stone it it for 24 hours,then add your nutr and let them sit for 12 hours,Check the PH and adjust it to where you want it and let it sit for 12 hours check it and change the nutr out.I found this works for me and I stop having all those PH problems.Here's some pixs of the buds I get doing it this way. Hope that Helps. PEACE

[elskeetro]

Crazywill...are you effin' serious!?!?!?! That pic looks like a furry ass pineapple!!! what strain is that? incredible.

skeet

[chiefgreenleaf]

Ok I have personal issues with hydroton myself.....I think it leads to fert build up issues. I used it for about 6 months and finally changed but lots of people seem to have no problem with it so sometimes I wonder if it's just me.

I have pretty large plants in waterfarms (about 2 gals apiece) and my ph doesn't start rising like that until about week 4 of flowering and on and I used to have to adjust it constantly. Now I recirculate the nutes and that helps keep the ph down but it is considered normal pretty much at that point.

However....you aren't at that point and so yours should not be rising like that unless they are suddenly taking a huge grow jump or something. So it's pretty much up to you to watch and see if the nute level is too much which can also definitely cause ph to rise. If you want to find out for sure....drop back your ppms and see if your ph stabilizes. If so....stay on the lower side. If not....I am still wondering about the metal in your system and did you use a flushing agent when flushing the system?
Those would be my other two thoughts.

Whats up Weedhound I know this thread is bout as old as the hills but hopefully you might see it! Im having pretty much the same problem but unfortunately my PH hasnt stablized yet! I was reading over this thread while lookin for answers and noticed the underlined statement you made about using a flushing agent when doing weekly/biweekly flushes. I actually did use Clearex when I flushed during my res change from week 4 to 5, can you tell me how this might be affecting my PH?
My initial problem was that my PPMs were rising and this had me stumped until I realized that PH down does influence your PPMs. I wouldve realized this earlier but like usual there's alot of bad info on some of these forums
and alot of posts claiming that PH adjusters dont influence PPMs and Ive been a long time dirt farmer and this is my first time coming over to the wet side so obviously Im a little new to hydro! At first me and a buddy that owns a hydro shop thought the PPM rise might be due to the Clearex I flushed with causing the medium to reject the uptake of nutes, thus causing my plants to only uptake water, leaving the nutes behind to raise the PPMs.
ANYWAY I realized the PPMs were rising because of the PH down I was adding which led me to realize that my PH rising too quickly and having to adjust is whats causing such a drastic increase in PPM! So whats causing this drastic increase in PH?
Im using a 2x4 E&F table w/conditioned RW cubes.
27 gal res w/20 gal of water, w/a small pump to circulate water and an airstone w/sponge around it to give the bene's a place to colonize. The res does have a lid so no evaporation.
Im using the entire Advanced Connoiseur Line plus Rhino Skin and Bud Factor X and following the light feeding schedule fairly close. I stopped adding beneficials after wk 2.
My PH after adding nutes is always right at 5.9 but within a day or so it usually goes up by a point or more.
Im in week 4 of flowering, week 5 starts on Tuesday. My PPMs are peaking over these 2 weeks at about 1300 but w/the addition of PH down to keep the PH in range Im up to 1900 PPMs! Since dif nutes are absorbed at dif PH levels I let my PH fluctuate between 5.5 and 7, sometimes 7.5 if Ive already added alot of PH down that week.
Im hopin you come across this, and would really appreciate any help you could give. If there's any additional info needed to help with diagnosis just lemme know.
PS Sorry for "thread jacking" but I dont see any way to PM on this site and since its been inactive for so long hopefully nobody will mind!

[caregiver99]

CHIEF

I think I had the same thing you are talking about... found it was a cyanobacteria posing as an algae. raised the ph in hours!! tried peroxide, dm zone, aquashield, daily change outs... etc. only thing I found that worked were beneficials. that bacteria doesn't need light and loves oxygen. physan 20 kills it, and was the only thing I could clean with once I got the slime. bleach did nothing. if you do have this bacteria, then I found that sterilizing with physan 20 kills it off, and beneficials (earth worm compost tea, Great White, etc) will keep it from coming back. the slime can't compete with the beneficials once they are established. Hygrozyme, carbs, molasses, etc will all feed the slime so don't use them. The trick to keep the slime away is to add the beneficials to the rez every three days... but not to feed them. if you provide an excess of food for the beneficials, then the slime bacteria will have enough food to prosper. make EWC tea and save it in the fridge for 7-10 days (after that it's unusable). Add the tea every three days to the rez to keep the slime at bay. you will see your ph stabilize. I currently use Great White because I can just add it without brewing the tea... but it's more expensive.

there was a shortage of cannabis in Europe in 2007 because of this bacteria. I now have a vendetta against this stuff, and would be happy to assist you in anyway if the problem reoccurs.

it is commonly misdiagnosed as root rot, but this is because it CAUSES root rot by asphixiating (sp?) roots.

after reading your post a second time... I think you should continue adding the beneficials on a regular schedule and don't feed them in the reservoir. I found that less-than-complete beneficials don't work against this stuff, and neither does cleaning with anything other than Physan 20. You can run 1-2 ml Physan in 30 gal rez for 24 hours to kill the bacteria. Watch the plants closely though once the Physan goes in because just a little too much kills them, and not enough doesn't kill the bacteria. Change out your water... don't add beneficials and run the Physan 20. I also removed the plants and soaked them in a solution while cleaning the rez with Physan, and that worked too. Make sure the physan is completely out of the system or the bene's will not live.

The bacteria will cause your ppms to rise btw.

Hope this is of some use... oh and UV light kills the bacteria too.

[LOC NAR on probation]

Whats up Weedhound I know this thread is bout as old as the hills but hopefully you might see it! Im having pretty much the same problem but unfortunately my PH hasnt stablized yet! I was reading over this thread while lookin for answers and noticed the underlined statement you made about using a flushing agent when doing weekly/biweekly flushes. I actually did use Clearex when I flushed during my res change from week 4 to 5, can you tell me how this might be affecting my PH?
My initial problem was that my PPMs were rising and this had me stumped until I realized that PH down does influence your PPMs. I wouldve realized this earlier but like usual there's alot of bad info on some of these forums
and alot of posts claiming that PH adjusters dont influence PPMs and Ive been a long time dirt farmer and this is my first time coming over to the wet side so obviously Im a little new to hydro! At first me and a buddy that owns a hydro shop thought the PPM rise might be due to the Clearex I flushed with causing the medium to reject the uptake of nutes, thus causing my plants to only uptake water, leaving the nutes behind to raise the PPMs.
ANYWAY I realized the PPMs were rising because of the PH down I was adding which led me to realize that my PH rising too quickly and having to adjust is whats causing such a drastic increase in PPM! So whats causing this drastic increase in PH?
Im using a 2x4 E&F table w/conditioned RW cubes.
27 gal res w/20 gal of water, w/a small pump to circulate water and an airstone w/sponge around it to give the bene's a place to colonize. The res does have a lid so no evaporation.
Im using the entire Advanced Connoiseur Line plus Rhino Skin and Bud Factor X and following the light feeding schedule fairly close. I stopped adding beneficials after wk 2.
My PH after adding nutes is always right at 5.9 but within a day or so it usually goes up by a point or more.
Im in week 4 of flowering, week 5 starts on Tuesday. My PPMs are peaking over these 2 weeks at about 1300 but w/the addition of PH down to keep the PH in range Im up to 1900 PPMs! Since dif nutes are absorbed at dif PH levels I let my PH fluctuate between 5.5 and 7, sometimes 7.5 if Ive already added alot of PH down that week.
Im hopin you come across this, and would really appreciate any help you could give. If there's any additional info needed to help with diagnosis just lemme know.
PS Sorry for "thread jacking" but I dont see any way to PM on this site and since its been inactive for so long hopefully nobody will mind!

Sorry Weedhound has past away on the 13 of jan. She will be sorely missed.
http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/179813-please-quick-prayer-weedhound.html?highlight=weedHound

caregiver99 has some excelent info. I think I have been battling this slime. It has twisted my mind trying to figure it out. Everything looks pretty good till a few weeks into flower and then the slime. They don't die they just don't do very well in the finish. I even went to all new containers and it came back.
None of this happened untill I got clones from a unclean source. I mean the guy gave me thrips and redspotted spidermites from hell and now the slime from hell. Time to look for the physan and stop using the hygrozyme and get some bene's.

[Curthawlee]

I have a inteliDose Computerize system my Ph can be Controlled to .0 as I have nutrient controll as well. When I Change nutrients (weekly) 25 gallon res with 8-2 gallons hydroton over 2 gallon deep wells. So total of 40 gallons nuts. Recirulating $$$$$

I pump nuts from res to drip over hydroton on 15 minutes off 15 minutes..... Good Temp contrroll have 2 chillers on res ... PH is adjusted on day one PH is stable thru day 2 (very little auto dosing (ph rises ) by day 3 system is dosing every 15 minutes 1.5 oz GH ph down mixed 20 to 1. By day 5 system is autodosing PH the other way (seldom) than day 6-7 pretty stable again....

OH yea! use RO water
Doses like this weather the plants are seedings or honkers (So must be chemistry ,, Right ? ) My plants are so healthy!
Now I have grown a lot I know a few thing let your PH float up to 6.0 than bring It back to 5.5 what ever you think works for you I have grown with exact PH controll and the float PH way Plant really dosn't care AS LONG AS YOU KEEP IT BETWEEN SAFE LEVELS !! IF you don't your paying for nutrients that are not going to uptake...If you let it float you will use less GH PH up down over all

@5.6 to 5.8 almost all nuts are NOT LOCkED OUT HYDRO ... 6.1PH I guess if you use mud .. <:((><

[Saggitaur]

It is the Hygrozyme!!! I just recently started using this product and found my pH going down real bad. Took me a couple water changes to figure it out but I tested my pH everytime I added my nutes together, one test for each nute I added until I found the culprit, Hygrozyme! I don't use it anymore.

[chuangxin]

Hygrozyme? didn't hear of them before. any other humic acid (http://www.humicacidcorp.com/) organic fertilizer brand recommend? guys