Doctors are not botanists

[vej33]

my doctor told me today that my blood pressure was a bit higher than the last time i was there...

she asked if i smoked cigarettes, and i told her I didn't, but that i occasionally (lol yea right) smoked pot.

she said that what is in pot is worse than what is in cigarettes, but the quantity that is smoked of pot is less than cigarettes, almost making it less of a threat....

so there's a big debate whether or not marijuana can cause lung cancer, there are no proven deaths, etc...

but can smoking pot dangerously raise your blood pressure?

[Funkmaster H.O.H.N.]

Cannabis can raise your blood pressure, and if there were other factors raising it as well then it is possible that it would contribute to a dangerously high blood pressure, but unless you were highly allergic to cannabis then it shouldn't dangerously raise your blood pressure on it's own.

[vej33]

Well I don't mean can your blood pressure raise as the result of a smoking session... i mean long-term recreational use...

I have no family history of high blood pressure, I exercise every weekday, i eat 5 small meals a day consisting of the required food groups.

Smoking is really my only vice, aside from occasionally enjoying the junk-food of my choice...

I'd hate to live in this world where Cannabis is helping so many people, but causing me to have high blood pressure :wtf:

[thcbongman]

It's only dangerous because you are paranoid. :rasta:

It doesn't raise your blood pressure that much. When I was hospitalized when I first got cancer, I had my blood pressure tested a couple hours before smoking a joint in the parking lot. Not much after, they tested me again. My blood pressure is around 110/50, I measured 121/57 after the session. Only a slight increase. Not dangerous unless your blood pressure was really high to begin with.

[BobBong]

Did you know it can lower your blood pressure too?

Not to mention ocular pressure..

[vej33]

Did you know it can lower your blood pressure too?

Not to mention ocular pressure..

one of many the delicious paradox's of life i guess

[Storm Crow]

Show your doctor my medical studies post! She sounds rather uneducated! Here's a few for you to start her off on!

Lowering of Blood Pressure Through Use of Hashish
Lowering of Blood Pressure Through Use of Hashish: The Hempire - [cannabis, london] (http://www.thehempire.com/index.php/cannabis/news/lowering_of_blood_pressure_through_use_of_hashish)

Blood Pressure Lowered With Cannabis Component
Blood Pressure Lowered With Cannabis Component: The Hempire - [cannabis, hemp] (http://www.thehempire.com/index.php/cannabis/news/blood_pressure_lowered_with_cannabis_component)

Antineoplastic activity of cannabinoids
Antineoplastic activity of cannabinoids (http://www.ukcia.org/research/AntineoplasticActivityOfCannabinoids/default.html)

Delta(9)-Tetrahydrocannabinol inhibits epithelial growth factor-induced lung cancer cell migration
Unbound MEDLINE | Delta(9)-Tetrahydrocannabinol inhibits epithelial growth factor-induced lung cancer cell migration in vitro as well as its growth and metastasis in vivo. Journal article (http://www.unboundmedicine.com/medline/ebm/record/17621270/abstract/Delta_9__Tetrahydrocannabinol_inhibits_epithelial_ growth_factor_induced_lung_cancer_cell_migration_i n_vitro_as_well_as_its_growth_and_metastasis_in_vi vo)

Smoking Cannabis Does Not Cause Cancer Of Lung or Upper Airways
CCRMG (http://ccrmg.org/journal/05aut/nocancer.html)

No association between lung cancer and cannabis smoking in large study
IACM-Bulletin (http://www.cannabis-med.org/english/bulletin/ww_en_db_cannabis_artikel.php?id=219#2)

Premiere British Medical Journal Pronounces Marijuana Safer Than Alcohol, Tobacco
The Cannabis Link (http://cannabislink.ca/medical/safer.html)

Cannabis and tobacco smoke are not equally carcinogenic
Cannabis and tobacco smoke are not equally carcinogenic (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1277837)



Print them up (most are one pagers) and give her these URLs-

My birthday gift to you.... - TreatingYourself.COM Online Community (http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=23136)

My "Happy New Year" Medical post - TreatingYourself.COM Online Community (http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25554)

It's my "medical" posts on a nice, sensible, little site for medical cannabis. We have to educate our doctors- med school certainly doesn't! - Granny:hippy:

[vej33]

Show your doctor my medical studies post! She sounds rather uneducated! Here's a few for you to start her off on!

Lowering of Blood Pressure Through Use of Hashish
Lowering of Blood Pressure Through Use of Hashish: The Hempire - [cannabis, london] (http://www.thehempire.com/index.php/cannabis/news/lowering_of_blood_pressure_through_use_of_hashish)

Blood Pressure Lowered With Cannabis Component
Blood Pressure Lowered With Cannabis Component: The Hempire - [cannabis, hemp] (http://www.thehempire.com/index.php/cannabis/news/blood_pressure_lowered_with_cannabis_component)

Antineoplastic activity of cannabinoids
Antineoplastic activity of cannabinoids (http://www.ukcia.org/research/AntineoplasticActivityOfCannabinoids/default.html)

Delta(9)-Tetrahydrocannabinol inhibits epithelial growth factor-induced lung cancer cell migration
Unbound MEDLINE | Delta(9)-Tetrahydrocannabinol inhibits epithelial growth factor-induced lung cancer cell migration in vitro as well as its growth and metastasis in vivo. Journal article (http://www.unboundmedicine.com/medline/ebm/record/17621270/abstract/Delta_9__Tetrahydrocannabinol_inhibits_epithelial_ growth_factor_induced_lung_cancer_cell_migration_i n_vitro_as_well_as_its_growth_and_metastasis_in_vi vo)

Smoking Cannabis Does Not Cause Cancer Of Lung or Upper Airways
CCRMG (http://ccrmg.org/journal/05aut/nocancer.html)

No association between lung cancer and cannabis smoking in large study
IACM-Bulletin (http://www.cannabis-med.org/english/bulletin/ww_en_db_cannabis_artikel.php?id=219#2)

Premiere British Medical Journal Pronounces Marijuana Safer Than Alcohol, Tobacco
The Cannabis Link (http://cannabislink.ca/medical/safer.html)

Cannabis and tobacco smoke are not equally carcinogenic
Cannabis and tobacco smoke are not equally carcinogenic (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1277837)



Print them up (most are one pagers) and give her these URLs-

My birthday gift to you.... - TreatingYourself.COM Online Community (http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=23136)

My "Happy New Year" Medical post - TreatingYourself.COM Online Community (http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25554)

It's my "medical" posts on a nice, sensible, little site for medical cannabis. We have to educate our doctors- med school certainly doesn't! - Granny:hippy:

I just read through the first link you provided (thank you very much by the way, i've seen your medical links but simply have not come
across any about blood pressure), about the man who separated the psychotropic effects from the medicinal cannabinoids.

My question is, even with the psychotropic effects of regular cannabis (aka, the stuff i get from my dealer), does it still pack the benefits
like relaxing my blood vessels and lowering blood pressure? Or do those medicinal properties have to be separated and used separately to work?

[birdgirl73]

This is why it's really important that you read those links in proper context, VEJJ, and why no one should immediately assume that that doctor was uneducated by any means.

It's generally the smoking action itself, along with the competition it gives your oxygen supply and the irritating byproducts of combustion, that work in concert to raise BP in some folks, particularly those with a history of high blood pressure or those who lead sedentary lifestyles, eat a lot of salt, or carry extra weight. It also very much depends on the strain you're smoking. The THC and CBD in cannabis, at least some strains of it, can be very helpful with vaso-dilation (meaning it relaxes veins and arteries and helps lower BP) in some people, and we do indeed know that many types of cannabis are helpful in lowering ocular pressure, or glaucoma, but ocular pressure and BP aren't the same thing and aren't affected in identical ways from smoking.

As a rule, most folks who deal with vascular medicine and encounter lots of cannabis smokers find that they do see higher BPs in those patients. If my husband ever gets free of dealing with his vascular patients at the hospital, I'll ask him to officially confirm this. Vaping is a much safer way to use cannabis long-term and get the beneficial effects from the active ingredients while eliminating the oxygen deprivation/combustion irritants that may raise your BP.

You know the phase after smoking where some people feel anxious and jumpy and their heart rate increases? That's what I call the "adrenergic" phase, where it's rather like you've had a slight burst of adrenalin. It happens if you're smoking sativa-leaning strains more than indicas, and it happens anyway after any type of smoke inhalation because your body, veins, lungs and heart are having to work harder to transport oxygen because your normal oxygen intake is competing with smoke. It's during that adrenergic phase that your BP is most elevated. This again depends on how your own body reacts to smoking.

Please, please, please. Everyone remember that links claiming the wonders of cannabis must be read closely and interpreted correctly, ideally with full knowledge of the fact that they usually aren't even discussing whole smoked cannabis but instead isolated active ingredients. You show those to your doctor, who has access to more links to more full and credible studies and sources than you can shake a stick at, and inform her that she's uneducated, and she'll laugh you out of her office. Rightfully so.

[vej33]

Unfortunately there is just never any way for me to tell what kind of strain I'm smoking... up here, it's kind of like my dealer drives to get it from someone, who probably got it from someone, etc... so by the time he gets it here, it's lost all face-value and is just Weed.

But I had a question, Birdgirl you sound like you'd have a good answer to this...

I got my Blood Pressure taken exactly a week after I'd stopped smoking. Could a higher blood pressure be my body's reaction to it being cut off from cannabis? Im not talking about "addiction" or anything. But if Cannabis CAN reduce blood pressure, does that mean that weaning off of cannabis (i guess weaning is the wrong term since i stopped cold-turkey) does that mean that the lack of its use would bring it back up?

edit: oh and i did want to mention that i do vaporize a portion of what i smoke... not all of it, maybe half of it. my boyfriend got it a few months ago, and at first it was all we used. then we got back into bowls, and we'd been smoking as opposed to vaping a lot. but i'd say from the day he got it, we've smoked probably half of it through that.

[melodious fellow]

Did you know it can lower your blood pressure too?

Not to mention ocular pressure..

Good lookin' out bro. I was afraid I was going to have to be the first to post in this direction and then get eaten alive...

It's a funny picture in my head to try to think of doctors with file cabinets full of cannabis studies, or even really waste their precious time looking in to that, after all there was a thread on here the other day where some neuroscience guy said erb was a rather boring thing to study in the lab..

But I went to this really cool doctor when I got bad bronchitis this year, and he told me smoking weed was not any big deal... did not even tell me I needed to stop with bronchitis. He said, well it is a slight irritant, but no big deal or anything. You could make brownies if you are worried about it"

And after all, one should never question their doctor's education :D

But the kinda strange part (not to stereotype but...) he had bibles and christian stuff in the waiting room and on the walls... and this is the bible belt... so yeah.

And weed lowers my blood pressure. I am a vegetarian and I pump iron (he he, chicas?) so I have naturally low blood pressure. But after a nice joint, it drops down to about 100/50 and that is after walking around in wal mart for a half hour(I always check with their nifty robot cuff in the pharmacy section)

Sober it is around 110-115/60-65

But each individual's body is unique and there are oh so many other variables in this.

peace

[Coelho]

Well... i only vaporize hash oil, so i inhale almost no smoke, and ive noticed that weed indeed lowers my (already low) pressure... i was going to say that there was differences between the smoke effects and the THC effects, but Birdgirls post explains it far better than i ever would... so, listen to her.

[birdgirl73]

I got my Blood Pressure taken exactly a week after I'd stopped smoking. Could a higher blood pressure be my body's reaction to it being cut off from cannabis? Im not talking about "addiction" or anything. But if Cannabis CAN reduce blood pressure, does that mean that weaning off of cannabis (i guess weaning is the wrong term since i stopped cold-turkey) does that mean that the lack of its use would bring it back up?

I think that could very easily be something that would happen. If cannabis, particularly an Indica or Indica-dominant strain, were acting as a strong vasodilator for someone with hypertension, then certainly to stop that vasodilation "medication," particularly if someone had been using it regularly, could easily cause a spike in BP. I'm pretty sure that's been noted as a symptom, in fact, with the cessation of regular cannabis use, as has agitation, jumpiness, etc. A rebound spike in BP is very common after cessation of certain other cardiovascular meds, so it makes sense to me the same thing could happen upon cessation of cannabis.

Now whether or not that's the very case with you is hard to tell. If someone had been checking your BP before and after smoking, then after quitting, too, we'd have a much better idea.