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fishman3811
02-13-2008, 09:22 AM
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

"We support the troops!" That's the excuse the Democrats have given for continuing to fund Bush's aggression against Iraq and Afghanistan. But, of course, war funding doesn't support the troops. War funding supports an evil machine that chews up and spits out the lives and well being of the troops, along with that of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and Afghan, men, women, and children. War funding supports Bush's aggression in Iraq and Afghanistan and his continuing efforts to occupy both countries in order to turn them into puppet states.

Polls show that a majority of the troops and their families do not support Bush's aggression. The fact that Ron Paul's campaign for the Republican presidential nomination received the lion's share of contributions from military families also underlines the great divide between the troops and those who would "support" them by keeping them in Iraq and Afghanistan. What all those ribbon decals on the back of SUVs, which proclaim "support the troops," really mean is support Bush's wars of aggression against Muslims.

According to the Washington Post (Feb. 9, 2008), Bush's $3.1 trillion federal budget provides no funding for his proposal in his State of the Union address to permit military members to transfer their unused education benefits to family members. Bush got applause for his nationally televised words, but the troops and their families got no money in his budget.

Government analysts calculate the education benefits would cost in the range of $1-2 billion annually--the cost of funding the war for two days.

The only money that Bush and Congress want to give the troops is what is required to keep them at war. Everyone has read the horror stories of the lack of care for the physically and emotionally wounded troops who have made it back from Iraq.

In contrast, to fund Bush's war, Bush and Congress have already spent in out-of-pocket and future costs at least $1,000 billion. Every American can draw up lists of better uses of this immense fortune than blowing up a country's infrastructure and killing hundreds of thousands of its citizens.

Nothing good whatsoever has been accomplished by Bush's invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. It was obvious to anyone with a lick of sense in 2002, six months prior to Bush's invasion of Iraq on March 18, 2003, that an invasion would be a strategic blunder. William S. Lind, myself and others made that prediction in October, 2002. Three years later, Lt. Gen. William Odom, former director of the National Security Agency, vindicated us by declaring Bush's invasion of Iraq to be "the greatest strategic disaster in U.S. history." If the head of the NSA doesn't know a "strategic disaster" when he sees one, who does?

Gen. Odom's assessment is certainly correct. Bush, Cheney, the neocons, and the sycophant media were completely wrong. Look at the situation today. Unable to defeat the Sunni insurgency, the US "superpower" has had to resort to paying tens of millions of dollars to insurgency leaders to bribe them not to attack US troops. In addition, Bush is supplying the insurgents with weapons "to fight al Qaeda." The Sunni leaders gladly accept the money and weapons, but how long can they survive being collaborators with the American enemy that has destroyed their country and the Sunni place in the sun?

It was obvious to everyone but Bush and the neocons that overthrowing Saddam Hussein in the name of democracy would put the majority Shi'ites, who are allied with Iran, in place as the new rulers of Iraq. So far the Iraqi Shi'ites have bided their time and have not joined in earnest the insurgency against the US occupation. Instead, they, like the Sunnis, have directed most of their attention to cleansing neighborhoods of one another. The reasons that violence--although still higher than Americans could live with--is down are that most of the neighborhoods are now segregated, al Sadr has ordered his militia to stand down, and the Sunni insurgents are being paid not to attack US troops.

Bush started a war, and now to avoid losing it Bush pays Iraqis not to attack US troops!

The Sunnis and Shi'ites are stronger than ever, while the US troops are worn down and demoralized from multiple lengthy combat tours that violate traditional US military policy.

It was also obvious that Bush's invasions would destabilize nuclear-armed Pakistan. On February 8, seasoned foreign correspondent Warren Strobel reported for the McClatchy newspapers that "Pakistan is now the central front in America's war on terror." On February 9, the Washington Post reported: "Pakistan faces a growing threat from a new generation of radicalized, battle-hardened militants who embrace jihad and have become allied with local and international terrorists intent on toppling the pro-Western government [shorthand for paid US puppet], a senior U.S. intelligence official told reporters yesterday."

US officials have been pressing Pakistan, to no effect, to allow US troops to join the Pakistani army's fight against Pakistani tribes allied with the Taliban. US officials, "speaking on condition of anonymity," are trying to muster support for an expanded US military role in Pakistan by alleging that Osama bin Laden and Taliban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar are in Pakistan with their top commanders. Bush wants to bomb Pakistan in order to win the war in Afghanistan.

With all available US troops tied down in Iraq, the US is using NATO soldiers as mercenaries to try to counter a resurgent Taliban. Europeans are tiring of their role as an European proxy for America's legions, and the NATO commander speaks of a NATO defeat in Afghanistan.

NATO was an alliance created to resist a Soviet invasion of Europe. The US has kept an unnecessary NATO alive for 18 years as a source of troops for its foreign adventures. Europeans dislike being mercenaries for American Empire, especially one that slaughters civilians.

Desperate for troops, US Defense Secretary Robert Gates is trying to scare Europeans with the threat of "international terrorism," but Europeans know that the best way to bring terrorism to Europe is to send troops to fight Muslims for the Americans. Whether Gates will get the German and French soldiers that he so desperately needs depends on whether the US can give the German and French leaders, Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy, enough billions of dollars to divide among their parties to embolden them to override public opinion and send their soldiers to die for US and Israeli hegemony in the Middle East.

Gates told Europe that NATO's survival is at stake: "We must not--we cannot--become a two-tiered alliance of those willing to fight and those who are not." In a rare bit of honesty for an American government official, Gates admitted at the NATO conference in Munich last week that Europeans' anger at the US over Iraq is the reason Europe won't send enough troops to fight the Taliban in Afghanistan, thus putting what Gates disingenuously called "the international mission in Afghanistan" at risk of failure.

The Afghanistan "mission," like the Iraq "mission," was a mission for US and Israel hegemony. The official reason for invading Afghanistan was 9/11 and the alleged refusal of the Taliban to hand over Osama bin Laden. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Europe, NATO, or any "international mission." The official reason for invading Iraq was alleged, but nonexistent, weapons of mass destruction that allegedly threatened America--another, but more deadly, 9/11 in the making according to the Bush regime.

If the US now needs foreign troops to save its bacon in these two lost wars, it should demand them from Israel. Israel is why the US is at war in the Middle East. Let Israel supply the troops. The neocons who dominated the Bush regime and took America to illegal wars are allied with the extreme right-wing government of Israel. The goal of neoconservatism is to remove all obstacles to Israeli territorial expansion. The Zionist aim is to grab the entirely of the West Bank and southern Lebanon, with more to follow later.

Remember "mission accomplished"? Remember all the strutting neocons with their promises of a "cakewalk war"? Remember all the ignorant bragging about having "defeated the Taliban"? All of these lies were designed to tie American down in interminable wars in the Middle East for Israel's benefit. There is no other reason for Bush's invasions. We know for certain that Bush and his entire administration lied through their teeth about the Taliban and about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

What a total crock of ignorance and deception the Bush regime represents. Bush, defeated in Iraq, defeated in Afghanistan, with Pakistan crumbling in front of his eyes, is now reduced to begging the French, whom it was such grand sport for his neocon officials to denigrate, to send soldiers to save his ass in Afghanistan.

What a laughing stock Bush has made of America. What ruination this utter idiot and his supporters have brought to America. What total traitors the neoconservatives are. Every last one of them should be immediately arrested for high treason. Neonconservatives are America's greatest enemies, and they control our government! All Americans have to show for six years of Bush's "war on terror" is an incipient police state.

Now standing in the wings is mad John "hundred year war" McCain. Will the American electorate wipe out the Republican Party before this insane party wipes out America?

Psycho4Bud
02-13-2008, 11:31 AM
"The US has kept an unnecessary NATO alive for 18 years as a source of troops for its foreign adventures. Europeans dislike being mercenaries for American Empire, especially one that slaughters civilians."

Sure thing.......another b.s. source has been discovered.

Have a good one!:s4:

8182KSKUSH
02-13-2008, 12:00 PM
It would be intresting if you heard this from anyone other than Ron Paul and this turd!
This is the turd that made the insinuation that the World Trade Centers couldn't have possible come down the way the did right? Fire doesn't melt steal right? Yeah he is a genius. Then the liberal media ran with it, then to add even more credit to what this turd is spewing, Rosie became his spokesturd. This turd just washes his hands of everything claiming to be impartial, and backtracks on what he says about it after someone points out, (fire melts steal, that's how they make things out of steel, oh yeah!) Yeah this guy is a fucking genius! I can't find much that he has done in the last 5 years that wasn't exclusively bashing Bush or making fanatical claims that never came true. He is a fanatic, I don't care what he did, and what's on his resume.
You can use your own judgement every once in a while.
Heres another shiny turd this guy dropped last year in July!

Impeach Now Or Face the End of Constitutional Democracy

Paul Craig Roberts
Counterpunch (http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts07162007.html)
Tuesday July 17, 2007

Unless Congress immediately impeaches Bush and Cheney, a year from now the US could be a dictatorial police state at war with Iran.
.................................................. .............................
I won't post the article, as it is a waste of movement and breathing to do so since it is garbage. Point is, we obviously did not impeach Bush. It will be almost a year later here pretty quick. Let me know when all this is supposed to happen. I can't wait for Bush to leave office, so I can look around at all the Turds and ask them, what happened? We are all still here? Did superman come down and save earth from Bush?Sounds like this guy is just a schill that's taken prison style for RU Paul. JMO. :thumbsup:

McLeodGanja
02-13-2008, 12:06 PM
I thought "democracy", as it is widely misconstrued by the "democractic" world anyway, was pretty much shattered 7 years ago when Bush came (usurped himself in)to power.

CultureCherryPopper
02-13-2008, 12:40 PM
I love how foreigners have to chime in with their two cents bashing our country.... Democracy still stood when Bush took office the second term, and it'll still stand after he steps aside for the next awful president. In today's society it will take a nationwide natural or medical disaster of biblical proportions for democracy to be threatened when FEMA assumes emergency control over the government. Anyone who watches X-Files knows that....

Sarcasm aside, what you don't realize because you didn't follow the election closely (or at all), was that the past election was truly a crapshoot; the turdsandwich/douchebag analogy was quite true. Only difference was, at least Bush had a sense of direction for this country, and has acted to fulfill the goals of his Republican constituents as best he could. Kerry on the other hand probably couldn't decide on which tie to wear each day, let alone where to stand on the war. That indecisiveness would surely have hurt the country more than Bush's continued support. And before you go spouting off numbers about support for Bush, you have to remember no president has been popular in a non-global confrontation, ever.

Why is it so bad that this war could be about oil? It would mean that it's mutually self-serving for both the US and Iraq; we get oil in exchange for removing a genocidal dictator from power. Is that so wrong? I don't think it is, it's just simple service and payment. But then again, where's all this magical oil at?

So there were no WMDs, I'll concede that. But think, instead of just assuming they lied, why not consider that there was bad intel? The CIA and NSA don't get it right every time ya know, they sift through mountain ranges of data daily. And if they lied, then they did so in order to save a country slowly dying in the hands of Saddam. But no, you Bush-haters are so quick to cast your pessimistic eye onto him with your witty sayings and propaganda in ignorance at what you don't comprehend. International politics is an increasingly complex dynamic with many hidden secrets. Things happen usually for a reason beyond our scope of knowledge as mere tiny citizens. But go ahead, slap that bumper sticker on your car so you can be cool.

McLeodGanja
02-13-2008, 01:01 PM
I love how foreigners have to chime in with their two cents bashing our country....

What, no-one from a foreign land is allowed to criticise the "democratic" process in America?

That's a bit of a double standard, seeing as the Bush regime are pretty good at criticising the rest of the world, and poking their nose into every other countries affairs.

CultureCherryPopper
02-13-2008, 01:04 PM
I'm just stating that your idea that democracy is broken now because one man is in the Oval Office is just absurd, so why say it at all? It's one thing to be hyperbolic, but it's gotten old. Like seven years old. You all are damn broken record that will just find another tune to crow when the new president is elected.

McLeodGanja
02-13-2008, 01:07 PM
I'm just stating that your idea that democracy is broken now because one man is in the Oval Office is just absurd, so why say it at all? It's one thing to be hyperbolic, but it's gotten old. Like seven years old. You all are damn broken record that will just find another tune to crow when the new president is elected.

No doubt the next one will be just as bad. Hopefully when the republicans lose this time they will just accept it and stand down.

Psycho4Bud
02-13-2008, 01:08 PM
I love it when Canadians post about OUR war for oil.........

Kurds in refinery talks with Canadian oil firms
BAGHDAD: Iraq's self-governing northern Kurdish region is negotiating with two Canadian firms on a joint venture to construct an oil refinery and continue work on a second one to boost its fledgling oil industry, its spokesman said yesterday.

But Kurdish officials are facing opposition from the central government in Baghdad, and a group of about 145 Sunni and Shi'ite legislators in parliament expressed their deep concerns against "any individual act" in Iraq's natural resources.

The Kurdish spokesman, Jamal Abdullah, said the contracts are legal and that no one has the authority to annul them.

"We are going forward to develop this sector to serve our people, and anyone who has any complaint should file it to the federal court," he said.

Iraq, the holder of the world's third-largest crude oil reserves with an estimated 115 billion barrels, aims to boost production to three million barrels per day by the end of the year. Parliament is currently considering an oil law to divvy up the country's oil and gas among Shi'ites, Sunnis and Kurds - one of the benchmarks sought by the US to achieve national reconciliation.

Abdullah said the two 20,000-barrel-per-day refineries will be located in Sulaimaniyah, one of three provinces that make up the Kurdistan regional government and about 260km northeast of Baghdad.

The first refinery, in the Bazian area, is scheduled to be completed by 2010 in a joint venture with Canada's Heritage Oil. The second refinery, to be located at the Taq Taq oilfield, would be constructed by Genel and Canada's Addax Petroleum and completed by early next year.
</title> </head> <body topmargin="0" leftmargin="0" rightmargin="0" bottommargin="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0"> <div align="left"> <table border="0" width="1000" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" id="table1"> <tr> <td valign=top> <div align="lef (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=205716&Sn=Busi&IssueID=30300)

Have a good one!:s4:

CultureCherryPopper
02-13-2008, 01:21 PM
I agree. The future don't look too bright any way you scan it. Our government needs a shake up and an overhaul in my opinion. We place so much faith (and blame) on one man, but really it's the entire system that is failing. One man can't change the world politically anymore yet we look to these candidates searching for a savior to right this ship. The way I see it, the world needs to be united under one government. Only then can we come together as a race and begin to solve the world's problems and heal this planet's wounds. Cultures won't be lost as many would claim will happen; hell, look at the South and you'll see that heritage runs deep and is resistant to change from unification. The problem of creating a world government is certainly daunting, not to mention an electoral system (popular vote and we'll have a Chinese president til the world ends), but it needs to be done fast before we fall apart as a race.

McLeodGanja
02-14-2008, 01:04 AM
I'm just stating that your idea that democracy is broken now because one man is in the Oval Office is just absurd, so why say it at all? It's one thing to be hyperbolic, but it's gotten old. Like seven years old. You all are damn broken record that will just find another tune to crow when the new president is elected.

Your scum bag of a president is a broken record.

Bush stole the presidency from Al Gore, and because of his actions hundreds upon thousands of people lost their lives. You might think that it should all be swept under the carpet and forgotten about but I personally think that for the good of American democracy and the world Bush should be impeached and made to stand trial in an international war crimes tribunal.

It's not going to happen, but it should not be forgotten what the republicans did last (last) election.

Al Gore stood down for the good of maintaining peace and stability, and in hindsight I think he should have stood his ground and tried to defeat the republicans. I think it would have been better in the long run.

With respect.

ldg420
02-14-2008, 02:42 AM
^^^are you kidding me stole the presidency????? who is the broken record??:buzz_saw: let it go man that was in 2000 eight long years ago, and givin the events that would eventually unfold on 9/11/01 I dont think anyone can honestly say Al Gore could have handled an emergency of that magnitude, I'm not saying Bush is the smartest guy all i'm saying is that over time history will prove that he was clearly the best option at the time... If you would like America to change why don't you immigrate Leagally from Scotland, become a citizen and cast your vote for whoever you feel is the better choice....utill then stop with the same old bullshit non fact based ranting......:stoned:

McLeodGanja
02-14-2008, 02:52 AM
Maybe the emergency wouldn't have happened.

I am not conspiracising here, I'm suggesting that Bushes actions had an overall effect on the collective world, in a bad way. It was probably going to happen anyway, if Bush hadn't done it would have been any other dictator bastard the world has to offer these days.

Go and tell a mother who now longer has her son because of the war on terror to let it go.

No election will ever be able to be taken seriously by anyone ever again, unless Bush is impeached.

Even then it's still the same bullshit.

8182KSKUSH
02-14-2008, 02:59 AM
Maybe the emergency wouldn't have happened.

I am not conspiracising here, I'm suggesting that Bushes actions had an overall effect on the collective world, in a bad way. It was probably going to happen anyway, if Bush hadn't done it would have been any other dictator bastard the world has to offer these days.

Go and tell to a mother who now longer has her son because of the war on terror to let it go.

No election will ever be able to be taken seriously by anyone ever again, unless Bush is impeached.

Even then it's still the same bullshit.

Sweet jesus, I didn't know Code Pink had a world HQ over there!


:spam3::wtf4::wtf3::spam2:
:flaming1::flaming1::flaming1::spam4::S4::S4:
:abduct::abduct::abduct::buzz_saw::spamsign::BLUE SMILIE SPAM::spamsign::spamsign::S2::S2:

McLeodGanja
02-14-2008, 03:24 AM
Thanks KUSH I thoroughly enjoy skimming over your threads too. Good night.

ldg420
02-14-2008, 03:45 AM
if you want to point the finger for 9/11 at a president try Clinton, it fits a little better, and yes i would love to tell a mother whos lost thier child in Iraq to let it go IF SHE WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT THE 2000 ELECTION like you are, stop being an idiot!!! I take back my offer for you to come be citizen, WE DON'T NEED ANYMORE IDIOTS!!:stoned:

McLeodGanja
02-14-2008, 03:54 AM
Unless you live in Los Angeles I'm not even interested anyway, NO NOT THE ONE IN LOS ANGELES?

__________________________________________________
I blame television way back in 1970 for destroying the art in conversion.

8182KSKUSH
02-14-2008, 03:57 AM
:S2::S2:[quote=ldg420]if you want to point the finger for 9/11 at a president try Clinton, it fits a little better, and yes i would love to tell a mother whos lost thier child in Iraq to let it go IF SHE WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT THE 2000 ELECTION like you are [quote]

Slap her in the mouth too. Then tell her to go make me a fucking sandwich damn I am hungry!:jointsmile::blueknife:

fishman3811
02-14-2008, 04:25 AM
skush if you knew anything about steel you would know steel melts at temps higher than what airplane fuel burns at....So if the fuel from the plane didnt melt the steel beams then what did?Please dont call me a conspiracy nut because science is science.But then again science has no reasoning in your thoughts.

Psycho4Bud
02-14-2008, 04:29 AM
We have a Conspiracy forum. Lets keep the 9-11 speculation over there please.

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

8182KSKUSH
02-14-2008, 04:31 AM
:thumbsup:
skush if you knew anything about steel you would know steel melts at temps higher than what airplane fuel burns at....So if the fuel from the plane didnt melt the steel beams then what did?Please dont call me a conspiracy nut because science is science.But then again science has no reasoning in your thoughts.

Just an ignorant observation,
I thought there was a whole hell of a lot more than just airplane fuel burning, I thought that it was on fire and burning for how long? Just burninn airplane fuel that whole time huh? I know, very un-scientific observation, just ignore it since it discredits what you are saying, if you ignore it, it's like it was never there!

thcbongman
02-14-2008, 04:38 AM
skush if you knew anything about steel you would know steel melts at temps higher than what airplane fuel burns at....So if the fuel from the plane didnt melt the steel beams then what did?Please dont call me a conspiracy nut because science is science.But then again science has no reasoning in your thoughts.

This shit has been debunked along ago. I'll admit I actually once believed this shit. It's simply taking a fact of science and misapplying the concept.

Simple explanation. How WTC was structurally designed as the strongest beams surrounding the sides, leaving the center without strong support, it's the weakest point of the building. Regardless of whether the steel beams melted or not, there are a load of petroleum and a fire. Things burn, there is bound to be a degree of structural collapse, which changes the weight distribution. Like a funnel, all the weight of the debris becomes concentrated in the center. Eventually all those beams can't support all the weight in the center, causing the floors to buckle. It's not an instantaneous process like it seemed on TV. It took some time, but once you have all that weight distributed to the center, it becomes a domino effect. Each floor had to buckle, and once there is enough energy, each floor collapsed faster under the pressure of the weight because it's unable to absorb the energy the excessive weight caused. The law of gravity is applied here, and it's science bro ;)

fishman3811
02-14-2008, 04:42 AM
well i know what your saying kush but most of the fire was already out and was managable by firefighters who were there at the time.The building didnt burn very long before they came down....

fishman3811
02-14-2008, 04:49 AM
thc well ok the law of gravity the buildings fell at free fall speed with no resistance from other floors which is not how buildings fall.You bought that popular science theory hook line and sinker but in their theory the buildings had a domino effect but the main center beams stayed standing unlike the trade centers main support beams.

Psycho4Bud
02-14-2008, 04:52 AM
I asked nicely once.....should I move this thread to the conspiracy forum?

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

fishman3811
02-14-2008, 05:13 AM
Hey P4B your right brother wrong forum here.....things kinda got out of hand...Anyway Go Obama

Psycho4Bud
02-14-2008, 12:08 PM
No problem Fish......with that damn squirrel banging on your brain I figured you were a bit distracted.

Obama huh, and I took you for a McCain man. :lol5:

Have a good one!:s4:

fishman3811
02-15-2008, 03:01 AM
McCain lmao P4B i may be dumb but i aint that dumb.McCain would be the worst thing to happen to your country since Bush well maybe the second worst thing.

boaz
02-15-2008, 12:50 PM
I asked nicely once.....:jointsmile:
. . insert Italian music here . .

Don ModFather Sir:

First of alls, let me tell yous thank you, for allowing me to remain with the organization after my unfortunate comments to one of our brothers. It saddens me that my first letter from the Don is a warning letter, but please let me assures yous that I will honor the code of the organization from now on and will not break the peace.

. . and oh by the way, you are doing a great job, this is a great forum. :rasta:

Thank you,
Don boaz

Psycho4Bud
02-15-2008, 01:02 PM
Don boaz::D

"But, that aside, let me say that I swear, on the souls of my grandchildren, that I will not be the one to break the peace we've made here today."..........

No problem my friend.....enjoy the forums and happy debating.

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

boaz
02-15-2008, 01:09 PM
that was the quote I was trying to think of :D

Psycho4Bud
02-15-2008, 01:13 PM
I keep this listing in my favorites for special occasions in here:
THE GODFATHER (1972) - QUOTES (http://www.thegodfathertrilogy.com/gf1/gf1quots.html)

I think this one is my favorite........

"I have a sentimental weakness for my children and I spoil them, as you can see. They talk when they should be listening."

Have a good one!:s4:

medicinal
02-17-2008, 01:25 AM
WTF????? BTW, P4, are you ready to retire on your dinars yet,~LOL~. I'm going to get the glue, nice wallpaper, rather expensive though, I figure a million in 5,000 notes might cover one wall in my small bathroom, the one behind the shitter,~LOL~.

Mississippi Steve
02-17-2008, 03:21 AM
I love how foreigners have to chime in with their two cents bashing our country.... Democracy still stood when Bush took office the second term, and it'll still stand after he steps aside for the next awful president. In today's society it will take a nationwide natural or medical disaster of biblical proportions for democracy to be threatened when FEMA assumes emergency control over the government. Anyone who watches X-Files knows that....

Sarcasm aside, what you don't realize because you didn't follow the election closely (or at all), was that the past election was truly a crapshoot; the turdsandwich/douchebag analogy was quite true. Only difference was, at least Bush had a sense of direction for this country, and has acted to fulfill the goals of his Republican constituents as best he could. Kerry on the other hand probably couldn't decide on which tie to wear each day, let alone where to stand on the war. That indecisiveness would surely have hurt the country more than Bush's continued support. And before you go spouting off numbers about support for Bush, you have to remember no president has been popular in a non-global confrontation, ever.

Why is it so bad that this war could be about oil? It would mean that it's mutually self-serving for both the US and Iraq; we get oil in exchange for removing a genocidal dictator from power. Is that so wrong? I don't think it is, it's just simple service and payment. But then again, where's all this magical oil at?

So there were no WMDs, I'll concede that. But think, instead of just assuming they lied, why not consider that there was bad intel? The CIA and NSA don't get it right every time ya know, they sift through mountain ranges of data daily. And if they lied, then they did so in order to save a country slowly dying in the hands of Saddam. But no, you Bush-haters are so quick to cast your pessimistic eye onto him with your witty sayings and propaganda in ignorance at what you don't comprehend. International politics is an increasingly complex dynamic with many hidden secrets. Things happen usually for a reason beyond our scope of knowledge as mere tiny citizens. But go ahead, slap that bumper sticker on your car so you can be cool.


Gotta love it when foreigners are dissing the US, and its military. For the rest on here that actually *believe* the liberal media and their sensationalized reporting, I think you really need to get a grip.

For those who do live in the US, I want to know how many years have *YOU* served in the military?? How long have *YOU* owned you own home?? How many people does *YOUR* company employ?? What have *YOU* done to make this a better place?? What other countries have you been to?? If you haven't been there and done that, then you really don't have a leg to stand on.

The best you can hope for is that the US doesn't end up in a DEPRESSION the likes of which hasn't been seen since the 1930s, and the only way that you can *DO* anything about it is to write your congress person(s), and vote to make a difference.

At this point, IMHO, none of the presidential candidates are worth knockin in the head. They *ALL* scare the hell out of me. I already am paying 32% in federal taxes....I have no desire to have to pay more. Its bad enough that I have to pay for social security, medicare, food stamps and free housing for 13+ million ILLEGAL ALIENS. This batch of presidential candidates all have these pie-in-the sky programs they want to instate, at a cost of BILLIONS of dollars.... this will have to come from MORE taxes.

Will I vote?? of course, but it will probably be a write in. I sure as hell will not be voting for any incumbents.

8182KSKUSH
02-17-2008, 04:21 AM
Gotta love it when foreigners are dissing the US, and its military. For the rest on here that actually *believe* the liberal media and their sensationalized reporting, I think you really need to get a grip.

I already am paying 32% in federal taxes....I have no desire to have to pay more. Its bad enough that I have to pay for social security, medicare, food stamps and free housing for 13+ million ILLEGAL ALIENS. This batch of presidential candidates all have these pie-in-the sky programs they want to instate, at a cost of BILLIONS of dollars.... this will have to come from MORE taxes.

Will I vote?? of course, but it will probably be a write in. I sure as hell will not be voting for any incumbents.

You said it. :jointsmile:
It may seem selfish, but it may be the most important issue to me, how much MORE will I have to pay!!! That's why I can't justify NOT voting for McCain! Really it is probably the issue that has the most DIRECT impact on my family, and friends. I guess it is kind of pragmatic, but any other vote would be HELPING the alternative that WILL ABSOLUTELY take more of my money! At least with McCain I have a shot at keeping what I already am ALLOWED to keep, money isn't everything, but you ever try to pay the bills with shiny rocks!:D

Psycho4Bud
02-17-2008, 06:21 PM
WTF????? BTW, P4, are you ready to retire on your dinars yet,~LOL~. I'm going to get the glue, nice wallpaper, rather expensive though, I figure a million in 5,000 notes might cover one wall in my small bathroom, the one behind the shitter,~LOL~.

The exchange rate is getting better........nice to see you got yours too. I wouldn't do the glue thing quite yet.....you might be crying every time ya take a piss. LOL

Have a good one!:s4: