Log in

View Full Version : Al-Qaeda leaders admit: 'We are in crisis. There is panic and fear'



Psycho4Bud
02-11-2008, 01:34 PM
Al-Qaeda in Iraq faces an ??extraordinary crisis?. Last year's mass defection of ordinary Sunnis from al-Qaeda to the US military ??created panic, fear and the unwillingness to fight?. The terrorist group's security structure suffered ??total collapse?.

These are the words not of al-Qaeda's enemies but of one of its own leaders in Anbar province ?? once the group's stronghold. They were set down last summer in a 39-page letter seized during a US raid on an al-Qaeda base near Samarra in November.

The US military released extracts from that letter yesterday along with a second seized in another November raid that is almost as startling.

That second document is a bitter 16-page testament written last October by a local al-Qaeda leader near Balad, north of Baghdad. ??I am Abu-Tariq, emir of the al-Layin and al-Mashahdah sector,? the author begins. He goes on to describe how his force of 600 shrank to fewer than 20.

??We were mistreated, cheated and betrayed by some of our brothers,? he says. ??Those people were nothing but hypocrites, liars and traitors and were waiting for the right moment to switch sides with whoever pays them most.?

Assuming the two documents are authentic ?? and the US military insists that they are ?? they provide a rare insight into an organisation thrown into turmoil by the rise of the Awakening movement. More than 80,000 Sunnis have joined the tribal groups of ??concerned local citizens? [CLCs] that have helped to eject al-Qaeda from swaths of western and northern Iraq, including much of Baghdad.
Al-Qaeda leaders admit: 'We are in crisis. There is panic and fear' - Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article3346386.ece)

Looks like we got the bad guys on the run.....remember that when ya vote! Why let some asshat fly a white flag when we're on the way to victory?

Have a good one!:s4:

benvortec
02-11-2008, 03:42 PM
Looks like we got the bad guys on the run.....remember that when ya vote! Why let some asshat fly a white flag when we're on the way to victory?

:rambohead: POW! POW! Hell yea kill em all! :rambo: AHAHAHAHA... no but seriously that's bad ass the strongest world in the nation only took 5 years to get a bunch of guys "on the run" in a country that didn't even have any kind of army, navy, or air force! :wtf: If anything the fact that it has taken this long should just go to show you that even when we sacrifice billions and billions of dollars and thousands of lives that we still can't even beat a bunch of sand gangsters! :smokin: We'd be screwed if we were facing a real advicary.

Markass
02-11-2008, 04:15 PM
Al-Qaeda in Iraq faces an ??extraordinary crisis?. Last year's mass defection of ordinary Sunnis from al-Qaeda to the US military ??created panic, fear and the unwillingness to fight?. The terrorist group's security structure suffered ??total collapse?.

These are the words not of al-Qaeda's enemies but of one of its own leaders in Anbar province ?? once the group's stronghold. They were set down last summer in a 39-page letter seized during a US raid on an al-Qaeda base near Samarra in November.

The US military released extracts from that letter yesterday along with a second seized in another November raid that is almost as startling.

That second document is a bitter 16-page testament written last October by a local al-Qaeda leader near Balad, north of Baghdad. ??I am Abu-Tariq, emir of the al-Layin and al-Mashahdah sector,? the author begins. He goes on to describe how his force of 600 shrank to fewer than 20.

??We were mistreated, cheated and betrayed by some of our brothers,? he says. ??Those people were nothing but hypocrites, liars and traitors and were waiting for the right moment to switch sides with whoever pays them most.?

Assuming the two documents are authentic ?? and the US military insists that they are ?? they provide a rare insight into an organisation thrown into turmoil by the rise of the Awakening movement. More than 80,000 Sunnis have joined the tribal groups of ??concerned local citizens? [CLCs] that have helped to eject al-Qaeda from swaths of western and northern Iraq, including much of Baghdad.
Al-Qaeda leaders admit: 'We are in crisis. There is panic and fear' - Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article3346386.ece)

Looks like we got the bad guys on the run.....remember that when ya vote! Why let some asshat fly a white flag when we're on the way to victory?

Have a good one!:s4:

so what happens if those sunni's we armed and trained end up turning on us..? Another surge???

psteve
02-11-2008, 04:28 PM
CIA propaganda.

Psycho4Bud
02-11-2008, 04:35 PM
:rambohead: POW! POW! Hell yea kill em all! :rambo: AHAHAHAHA... no but seriously that's bad ass the strongest world in the nation only took 5 years to get a bunch of guys "on the run" in a country that didn't even have any kind of army, navy, or air force! :wtf: If anything the fact that it has taken this long should just go to show you that even when we sacrifice billions and billions of dollars and thousands of lives that we still can't even beat a bunch of sand gangsters!

Well, I'm sure that the Brits felt the same way during the Revolutionary war. Since we do have them on the run it's not the time to withdrawl troops.....keep on the offense and let the Iraqi's take over control of the Provinces as we clean them up.


so what happens if those sunni's we armed and trained end up turning on us..? Another surge???

IF they were to turn on anyone it would initially be the Shi-ite. I really think that they've had enough of the killing though. When they side with the so called infidels against Muslim brothers that should be a statement in itself.

Have a good one!:s4:

Fencewalker
02-11-2008, 05:06 PM
Assuming the two documents are authentic
And therein lies the rub....;)

Until some kind of independent (outside of the government) verification happens, I will file this under the other "truths" of this administration:
"Iraq has WMD's"
"Iraq was involved with 9-11"
"Mission Accomplished"
"You're doing a great job, Brownie"
"Our children is learning"

benvortec
02-11-2008, 05:08 PM
Well, I'm sure that the Brits felt the same way during the Revolutionary war. Since we do have them on the run it's not the time to withdrawl troops.....keep on the offense and let the Iraqi's take over control of the Provinces as we clean them up.

Clean them up? Sounds like we're working towards a genocide! :wtf:
What gave us the right to go over there and "clean them up"? Certainly not the constitution... only a few neo-conservatives and GOD wants us to be there :cool: lol I understand what you're saying but if this isn't an indicator that we're not as all powerful as we thought we are i don't know what is... its just pitiful. We've spent billions and billions of dollars to kill off one group of people and arm another... in another 20 years we'll proally have to go clean up some more people after they all corrupt and start using their guns (that we gave them) and power for bad.

Innominate
02-11-2008, 09:22 PM
And I'm supposed to assume the war is almost over...

...we'll start another war before finishing the last one. :mad:

Zcomp
02-11-2008, 10:27 PM
Once upon a time, democracy was a good thing. It was easy to see because Americans were living well.
But with so much discontent in our own system, How can we advocate it to others??
When we are doing great. I will advocate. Until then this is the pot calling the kettle black.
The whole world should live just like us LOL. We've got no place to decide what is "clean".
Country stolen from Native Americans and built on the backs of blacks. How do we still look into the mirror??

Rusty Trichome
02-11-2008, 10:52 PM
POW! POW! Hell yea kill em all! AHAHAHAHA... no but seriously that's bad ass the strongest world in the nation only took 5 years to get a bunch of guys "on the run" in a country that didn't even have any kind of army, navy, or air force! :wtf: If anything the fact that it has taken this long should just go to show you that even when we sacrifice billions and billions of dollars and thousands of lives that we still can't even beat a bunch of sand gangsters! :smokin: We'd be screwed if we were facing a real advicary.

Your statement kinda makes me miss the good ol' days. Back when we had the draft.
Would you prefer to have gone in and anhilate the entire population?
Or better yet...do nothing? Just let these extremists blow up people all over the world? Would you give them a hand converting all the world to their version of islamic law? You feel the Taliban is right and just in it's philosophy about women, jews, christians? You may want to brush-up on your sharia law. At least you'll know why they are executing you and your family.
Shariah Islamic Law - The Sharia (http://www.shariah.net/)

You have contributed nothing with these statements, except a sense that you have no clue.

McLeodGanja
02-12-2008, 12:38 AM
Ha! I bet they are all be hiding in those secret underground bunkers Donald Rumsfeld told us about.

r0k
02-12-2008, 01:33 AM
I was expecting this to be a Faux News article.

psteve
02-12-2008, 02:05 AM
I was expecting this to be a Faux News article.And so it was.

benvortec
02-12-2008, 04:08 AM
Your statement kinda makes me miss the good ol' days. Back when we had the draft.
Would you prefer to have gone in and anhilate the entire population?
Or better yet...do nothing? Just let these extremists blow up people all over the world? Would you give them a hand converting all the world to their version of islamic law? You feel the Taliban is right and just in it's philosophy about women, jews, christians? You may want to brush-up on your sharia law. At least you'll know why they are executing you and your family.
Shariah Islamic Law - The Sharia (http://www.shariah.net/)

You have contributed nothing with these statements, except a sense that you have no clue.

Of course i was being completely sarcastic, i thought that was obvious :cool:... and yes i would have much rather not ever got involved in the war... if it was done it should have been declared like as the constitution states it should be! in fact most americans (majority 70%) believe that we shouldn't be at war.
AND OF COURSE YOU'RE ASKING RIDICULOUS QUESTIONS that are far out of context of anything i said. AND THEN you go as far as to say what will happen to me and my family if the taliban takes over america and comes in my home and kills my family??!!!!! Perhaps you need to hit your meds :stoned:... Bless your heart. I feel sorry for you because you've let our government make you afraid of guys on the other side of the world with NO ARMY,NAVY, OR AIR FORCE!!! HAHAHA You must be delusional if you think that that they'd invade america. And by god i've got the second amendment and guns so if they come to my house they'll be dead before they get up the driveway! :s4: -PEACE

whereishelpicon
02-12-2008, 04:12 AM
Your statement kinda makes me miss the good ol' days. Back when we had the draft.
Would you prefer to have gone in and anhilate the entire population?
Or better yet...do nothing? Just let these extremists blow up people all over the world? Would you give them a hand converting all the world to their version of islamic law? You feel the Taliban is right and just in it's philosophy about women, jews, christians? You may want to brush-up on your sharia law. At least you'll know why they are executing you and your family.
Shariah Islamic Law - The Sharia (http://www.shariah.net/)

You have contributed nothing with these statements, except a sense that you have no clue.

The terrsts are comin te get ya! They wanna burn yur women and rape yur churches!

Shit if we wanted to be the moral police of the world we'd be on every continent in the globe fighting. Hell if you're so worried about terrorists why aren't we invading Saudi Arabia (the home of Wahabi Islam, most of the 9/11 hijackers were from here) and Pakistan (Bin Laden's probably location, Peshawar Tribal Region)? Then there is of course the fact that none of the hijackers were Iraqi and Saddam was opposed to Osama.

The Taliban has (and had) about as much of a chance of conquering the globe as I have of becoming President of Mexico.

If you wanna know why they hate us so much (and no its not our freedoms or culture) you need only to look at the past century and our involvement in the Middle East. We have a nasty habit of supporting rather disliked dictators there. Not to even mention most of those that turn to radical Islam are those that see it as a way of fighting our intrusions, whether cultural or physical.

It'd be nice if they would all just go take a hike and let us take all their oil but since that isn't going to happen we might as well solve things in a way that doesn't cost thousands of American lives, hundreds of thousands of civilian lives, and a butt load of money too.

dragonrider
02-12-2008, 06:07 AM
Regardless of what you think about how we got into this war (stupidly) or how we have conducted it to date (poorly), this development is our best hope of getting out and not leaving behind a complete and total disaster. The Iraqis standing up and deciding not to let a bunch of jihadi nutcases goad them into a civil war is what we have been hoping for for the last several years, and maybe it's finally happening.

Psycho4Bud
02-12-2008, 12:07 PM
Of course i was being completely sarcastic, i thought that was obvious :cool:... and yes i would have much rather not ever got involved in the war... if it was done it should have been declared like as the constitution states it should be!

PLEASE post a link as to where it states that! I can find the one stating that Congress gave the President authorization eazy enough.

Have a good one!:s4:

Rusty Trichome
02-12-2008, 02:34 PM
I feel sorry for you because you've let our government make you afraid of guys on the other side of the world with NO ARMY,NAVY, OR AIR FORCE!!! HAHAHA You must be delusional if you think that that they'd invade america.
Ft. Dix six ring a bell? How about the Twin Towers? The Pentagon, Shanksville...? Any recollection perhaps of Haroon Rashid Aswat and his attempts to organize a terrorist training camp in Oregon?
Your memory sounds quite clouded with denial. Perhaps this would help:
Memory Training and Memory Improvement Information (http://www.selfgrowth.com/memory.html)


And by god i've got the second amendment and guns so if they come to my house they'll be dead before they get up the driveway! PEACE
Yeah...I'm sure you scare the piss out of 'em. Perhaps enough to avoid you alltogether, and just hit your kid's school instead.

So, in your mind it's perfectly ok for you to have a plan to defend your borders, but not ok for the USA to do the same? Typical selective reasoning. Quite a naive and selfish statement.

yokinazu
02-12-2008, 03:43 PM
george bush blew up the towers and that was a missle that hit the pentagon, dont you know anything? read the conspiracy thread. oh george bush also blew up the levies in new orleans.

this is sarcasm by the way

Psycho4Bud
02-12-2008, 03:55 PM
george bush blew up the towers and that was a missle that hit the pentagon, dont you know anything? read the conspiracy thread. oh george bush also blew up the levies in new orleans.

this is sarcasm by the way

Don't forget about his trip to England when he blew up the subway.:rolleyes:

Have a good one!:s4:

benvortec
02-12-2008, 09:12 PM
Ft. Dix six ring a bell? How about the Twin Towers? The Pentagon, Shanksville...? Any recollection perhaps of Haroon Rashid Aswat and his attempts to organize a terrorist training camp in Oregon?
Your memory sounds quite clouded with denial. Perhaps this would help:
Memory Training and Memory Improvement Information (http://www.selfgrowth.com/memory.html)

Why would i be in denial? :wtf: This has nothing to do with me personally. YES 9-11 happened. I accept and understand that. However if you're assuming that because they hijacked a few jet planes that somehow because they were successful in that attempt that they will now be successful in invading our country as a whole...? Like i've said over and over again they don't have the means to do so. Without an air force or a navy how will they and all of their weapons get here? Do they plan on swimming across the atlantic? :cool: It's just impractical. It's like saying that Iran is a real threat!
Oh, and way to point out many ATTEMPTS... they are called attempts because they are not successful :thumbsup:

Yeah...I'm sure you scare the piss out of 'em. Perhaps enough to avoid you alltogether, and just hit your kid's school instead.
Unfortunately i don't have any kids! :D And if you're scared about your kids getting shot up at school the only way to do that would be to keep them at home. I'd be more afraid of crazy americans or other kids in the school that are a risk to kids than Osama sneaking in to shoot up a school.


So, in your mind it's perfectly ok for you to have a plan to defend your borders, but not ok for the USA to do the same? Typical selective reasoning. Quite a naive and selfish statement.
I don't even know what you're trying to say or prove. I never said America shouldn't secure its borders. My original post was somewhat of a sarcastic response to the original thread. I was trying to make a point that we have not been successful, and by this point we should be much more successful than we are currently.

Rusty Trichome
02-13-2008, 01:11 AM
somehow because they were successful in that attempt that they will now be successful in invading our country as a whole...?
Not what I said. Just because our government uncovered the plots against Ft. Nix, and the terrorist training camp you really believe that those that mean to do us harm are not paying attention? You think they will step-back and say "gee mohammad, Allah may not favor us killing innocent Americans?" Denial.
I am sure glad we have people in office that, thru a co-operative effort between the US and multiple international allies, are hunting down and dealing with those that mean to do us and our allies harm.


Like i've said over and over again they don't have the means to do so. Without an air force or a navy how will they and all of their weapons get here? Do they plan on swimming across the atlantic? :cool: It's just impractical. It's like saying that Iran is a real threat!
Swim? No, our southern border would do.
Impractical?
A guided missle is pretty cheap:

A few drums of diesel gas: $450.00 (at $3.00 gal)
A couple pallets of ammonium nitrate: free (stolen from local farms)
A rental truck: $29.99 a day. (could even use a legit credit card, gonna die anyways)
A fanatical murderer: 29 virgins.
A martyr video for friends and family: priceless.

Impractical?
You likely won't take my word for it. There's shit-loads of fatwas these jokers come up with, from being ok to lie to infidels, Dhimmi Watch: D.C. Watson: Qur??an in American courts? (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/009359.php) to killing us infidels altogether.
Summary/Review of Reports Concerning Threats by Osama Bin Laden to Conduct Terrorist Operations Against the United States and/or her Allies - 02 Feb 98 to 16 Jun 98 (includes original February "fatwa") (http://www.emergency.com/bladen98.htm)


I was trying to make a point that we have not been successful, and by this point we should be much more successful than we are currently.
Do I wish we hadn't had to go in? Sure. I'd have voted to invade N. Korea, first.
But how long do you think it takes to stabilize a country? To help them remove the cancer that is islamic extremism? To hunt down those that still plot, still murder, still openly threaten us? Considdering the circumstances the military has been thru, I believe some modicum of respect is definatelly deserved.
Also, had Saddam not convinced his neighbors (and the world) that he had nukes, most of this may have happened differently.
And those spouting crap that we fabricated the Saddam nuke story are factually impared, or suffer from optical rectitis.
Interrogator Shares Saddam's Confessions, Tells 60 Minutes Former Iraqi Dictator Didn't Expect U.S. Invasion - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/24/60minutes/main3749494_page4.shtml)

8182KSKUSH
02-13-2008, 03:12 AM
Yeah, all the way up to the last paragraph, that's the truth! Hubba hubba!:jointsmile:
What's spaghetti without the sauce? Noodles.

zeitgeist
02-13-2008, 06:25 AM
My good friend who is currently serves over there says that the only reason people are cooperating with us is because we are basically paying everyone(the different tribes and etc.) to behave.
He says nothing is really getting done and alot of these reports are bullshit.

8182KSKUSH
02-13-2008, 06:48 AM
Well hell, now that we all know the truth, I guess that pretty much wraps it up! Thanks for letting us all know that it's bullshit, according to your friend!:thumbsup:

Rusty Trichome
02-13-2008, 01:46 PM
My good friend who is currently serves over there says that the only reason people are cooperating with us is because we are basically paying everyone(the different tribes and etc.) to behave.
He says nothing is really getting done and alot of these reports are bullshit.
And you didn't get curious enough to check the web for additional info, but preferd to come here and grace us with his insight? Gee...thanks. A little gossip is good for the soul.

Paying everyone? With what...infrastructure? (Hospitals, schools, electricity, water treatment, security...)
https://www.rebuilding-iraq.net/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/PCO_CONTENT/HOME/METRICS_IMPACTS/SECTOR%20OVERVIEW_041607.PDF
Is this the bribery your "friend" refers to? Or was your "friend" refering to the practice of paying locals for valid info regarding weapons bunkers, criminals, murderers, thiefs and terrorists?
In the states, we call that a reward.

I live in a predominatelly military community, and we often see news stories of our local heros re-upping to go back to be a part of the re-building process. Might want to check the info coming from your "friend" next time, and form your own opinions.

job1.5
02-13-2008, 03:57 PM
[quote=Rusty Trichome]And you didn't get curious enough to check the web for additional info, but preferd to come here and grace us with his insight? Gee...thanks. A little gossip is good for the soul.

well if its on the net, it must be true right? unless you have been there yourself, you have no idea what is going on overthere. so why speculate. you just go ahead and believe everything your gov. tells you, be a good little sheep,baaa baaa. i dont know why people argue this stuff. the gov. is going to do what it wants and when it wants reguardless of what the people want.

benvortec
02-13-2008, 05:32 PM
Not what I said. Just because our government uncovered the plots against Ft. Nix, and the terrorist training camp you really believe that those that mean to do us harm are not paying attention? You think they will step-back and say "gee mohammad, Allah may not favor us killing innocent Americans?" Denial.
I am sure glad we have people in office that, thru a co-operative effort between the US and multiple international allies, are hunting down and dealing with those that mean to do us and our allies harm.

Swim? No, our southern border would do.
Impractical?
A guided missle is pretty cheap:

A few drums of diesel gas: $450.00 (at $3.00 gal)
A couple pallets of ammonium nitrate: free (stolen from local farms)
A rental truck: $29.99 a day. (could even use a legit credit card, gonna die anyways)
A fanatical murderer: 29 virgins.
A martyr video for friends and family: priceless.

Impractical?
You likely won't take my word for it. There's shit-loads of fatwas these jokers come up with, from being ok to lie to infidels, Dhimmi Watch: D.C. Watson: Qur??an in American courts? (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/009359.php) to killing us infidels altogether.
Summary/Review of Reports Concerning Threats by Osama Bin Laden to Conduct Terrorist Operations Against the United States and/or her Allies - 02 Feb 98 to 16 Jun 98 (includes original February "fatwa") (http://www.emergency.com/bladen98.htm)


Do I wish we hadn't had to go in? Sure. I'd have voted to invade N. Korea, first.
But how long do you think it takes to stabilize a country? To help them remove the cancer that is islamic extremism? To hunt down those that still plot, still murder, still openly threaten us? Considdering the circumstances the military has been thru, I believe some modicum of respect is definatelly deserved.
Also, had Saddam not convinced his neighbors (and the world) that he had nukes, most of this may have happened differently.
And those spouting crap that we fabricated the Saddam nuke story are factually impared, or suffer from optical rectitis.
Interrogator Shares Saddam's Confessions, Tells 60 Minutes Former Iraqi Dictator Didn't Expect U.S. Invasion - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/24/60minutes/main3749494_page4.shtml)

Do you realize that everything we do now will affect us in the future. You should study the blow-back affect. It's alot more complex than just going over there and "hunting down" the mean guys.
I think you've watched one too many movies my friend... oh wait I KNOW NOW! Maybe you're living in a movie... do you know any of these guys?
[attachment=o177786]

AMERICA FUCK YEAH!!!

Although you almost had me with the credit card analogy :cool: i still have a question for you. You say that they will take advantage of our souther border? Let me ask you where you think Iraq is. It's not in mexico or south america. They'd still have to swim to mexico with their AK's on their backs. Like i've said they'll either have to have planes or ships to get them here and they have neither. And if you're really concerned about americans safety then you should want the troops at home DEFENDING HOMES AND BORDERS! And what in the fuck gives us the right to go "stabilize" other peoples countries? Maybe you need to lay off the smoke... i think you're getting a little paranoid.

Rusty Trichome
02-13-2008, 08:13 PM
well if its on the net, it must be true right? unless you have been there yourself, you have no idea what is going on overthere. so why speculate. you just go ahead and believe everything your gov. tells you, be a good little sheep,baaa baaa. i dont know why people argue this stuff. the gov. is going to do what it wants and when it wants reguardless of what the people want.
So if one persons remarks fit in with your views or preconceptions, you are confident they must be right? End of story?
With daily reviews of quite a few publications, the preponderance of the evidence points away from this gossip.
Would love to see your any links to back up the statement "only reason people are cooperating with us is because we are basically paying everyone(the different tribes and etc.) to behave.
He says nothing is really getting done and alot of these reports are bullshit."
I'll be waiting with baited breath.

Ben:
Regarding the southern border, and extremists swimming to Mexico...? Yeah...that's exactly how they'll do it.
How about showing some forethought and reality? Global transportation allowed intercontinental enemies to avoid swimming 50 years ago.

zeitgeist
02-14-2008, 02:46 AM
And you didn't get curious enough to check the web for additional info, but preferd to come here and grace us with his insight? Gee...thanks. A little gossip is good for the soul.

Paying everyone? With what...infrastructure? (Hospitals, schools, electricity, water treatment, security...)
https://www.rebuilding-iraq.net/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/PCO_CONTENT/HOME/METRICS_IMPACTS/SECTOR%20OVERVIEW_041607.PDF
Is this the bribery your "friend" refers to? Or was your "friend" refering to the practice of paying locals for valid info regarding weapons bunkers, criminals, murderers, thiefs and terrorists?
In the states, we call that a reward.

I live in a predominatelly military community, and we often see news stories of our local heros re-upping to go back to be a part of the re-building process. Might want to check the info coming from your "friend" next time, and form your own opinions.

Its definatly not gossip. Ive asked plenty of random soldiers about this and they say its completly true.
Yeah and when I mean paying yes its to help rebuild but there is a shit load of bribery just to keep people from killing each other.
Perfect example he gave me: Someone from tribe A goes and kills someone from Tribe B. To prevent a big as battle that will destroy the city, the US army has to be the police. They convince Tribe B not to retaliate by getting Tribe A to give up the murder + Cash. Thats basically the way shit works over there. Everyone is money hungry

Im not saying its like this in every community but it is where there are still 2+ factions.

And why are you trying to act like my friends info is bullshit when infact you are getting your info the same way? Oh the irony

fishman3811
02-14-2008, 06:11 AM
Well ive seen lots of news reports about tribes being bribed with cash to stop killing each other so i think Zeitgeist has a point.Truces over there are held together with cash and lots of it.Alot of the bad guys who were killing Americans are now being paid not too.

Rusty Trichome
02-14-2008, 01:52 PM
Still nothing but gossip to back up your statements?

Guell I'll do your homework for ya.
The only references backing your side of the story I could find, were on opinion pages. No legit news sources could be found.
Military paying Iraqi citizens to be nonviolent - Opinion (http://media.www.newsrecord.org/media/storage/paper693/news/2008/01/14/Opinion/Military.Paying.Iraqi.Citizens.To.Be.Nonviolent-3150198.shtml)

Here's the more rational story: (USA Today News)
U.S. hails Iraq plan to unite security ranks - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2007-12-17-iraqsecurity_N.htm)

"...Iraq's government will probably be ready to assume control of the local security groups in the middle of next year, Smith said. Until the Iraqis can take over, the U.S. military will keep paying for the groups. Iraq's Finance Ministry has identified $150 million for the program in next year's budget, which must be approved by the National Assembly.

Nearly 60,000 Iraqis, all but 14,000 of whom are Sunnis, have joined the groups, some of which are organized around tribal or neighborhood leaders, according to the U.S. military. They're paid about $300 a month. About 12,000 others are serving without pay.

The Iraqi government eventually wants to disband the local security groups and take 12,000 to 20,000 people into the Iraqi security forces. The remainder would receive job training paid for by the U.S. and Iraqi governments."

zeitgeist
02-14-2008, 05:15 PM
How is it gossip if somone sees something personally?

Bribery is VERY big in Iraq, I dont care what you think you know.
Iraqi gov. be ready to take control next year?!?! HAHA! What a load of crap. They couldnt control a city themselves much less a whole country
The Iraqi gov. is a freaking joke that wont get anything done

Psycho4Bud
02-14-2008, 05:53 PM
Bribery is VERY big in Iraq

So they have an actual government then. Hell, bribery and politics go hand in hand. Our government calls that Pork Projects or Earmarks.

Have a good one!:s4:

dragonrider
02-14-2008, 06:20 PM
So they have an actual government then. Hell, bribery and politics go hand in hand. Our government calls that Pork Projects or Earmarks.

Have a good one!:s4:

In a primarily Muslim country, it is preferable to have "Halal Meat Projects."

fishman3811
02-15-2008, 07:34 AM
politicians are all crooks no matter what country they are from.

nonothinger
02-15-2008, 10:08 AM
Who is America to "clean them up"?

Does the idea that ,maybe,what you hear and what reality is are two different things?

America have already won there war because there goal was to get oil and that was accomplished.

Bush will often say that the reason America invaded Irak is because of them being a dictatorship and having weapons of mlass destruction.Well,the weapons of mass destruction were never found and even if they did have WMD why Are America permitted to have them and not Irak?

And if Georgy Bushy were to invade every country that's a dictatorship then he'd have a lot of war ahead of him:

China,north Korea,Sudan And many many more.

Why doesn't America invade them?
Because they have enough power to defend themselves!

When your kid is playing in the street outside(happily) ,with his friends, when a bomb falls and rips his body into shreads you might understand how the Irakien people feel!

Psycho4Bud
02-15-2008, 11:30 AM
America have already won there war because there goal was to get oil and that was accomplished.

PLEASE, post up some links on oil contracts or even permission for exploration by U.S. firms. Haliburton isn't valid either since their ONLY mission has been to repair pipelines NOT to either pump oil or explore for new resources.

Have a good one!:s4:

8182KSKUSH
02-15-2008, 11:45 AM
When your kid is playing in the street outside(happily) ,with his friends, when a bomb falls and rips his body into shreads you might understand how the Irakien people feel!

1. It's not very smart to play in the street, or if you have kids, it's not smart to send them out to play in the street, just not safe!:jointsmile:
2. If you do send your kids out to play in the street, then be sure to explain to them that when they here the loud high pitched whistle, they better run, or just bend on over and kiss their ass good bye because it's all over! :jointsmile:
3. Where the hell is this "Irak" and who the hell are "Irakien people?" Are we involved in a war on another planet or something?:jointsmile::D
4. The concern about how these Irakien Beings or whatever feel when their kids are playing in the street and get blown to pieces, I doubt they feel anything, if it's anything like the stuff they were dropping in Iraq, I doubt they feel anything!:D

melodious fellow
02-15-2008, 02:11 PM
PLEASE post a link as to where it states that! I can find the one stating that Congress gave the President authorization eazy enough.

Have a good one!:s4:

We are not in a time of war.

We are bankrupt because everyone wants to play soldier :rambohead::rambo::admin2::apachecopter::s4:

There is no war on drugs.
There is no war in Iraq.
There is no war on terror.

Congress, not congress giving Bushy Jr. permission, but Congress itself must declare war.

The correct term is "police actions"

America's economy is not a lil' slow 'cause were at war gettin' the bad guys.

America is bankrupt because they spend too much money playing soldier when there is no war.

Psycho4Bud
02-15-2008, 02:47 PM
Congress, not congress giving Bushy Jr. permission, but Congress itself must declare war.

The correct term is "police actions"

Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002
GovTrack: H. J. Res. 114 [107th]: Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Vote On Passage) (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2002-237)

If you want to consider this a Police Action....great.

Have a good one!:s4:

melodious fellow
02-15-2008, 03:27 PM
Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002
GovTrack: H. J. Res. 114 [107th]: Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Vote On Passage) (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2002-237)



Yes, the president has command over the armed forces and can deploy them to Iraq is he chooses. So yes, he has the authorization for use of military force against Iraq or anyone else he chooses.

That however, is not a declaration of war. That is all I was asserting. Ron Paul discussed this and put the term "police actions" one some of his brochures.

melodious fellow
02-15-2008, 03:55 PM
Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the United States Constitution, sometimes referred to as the War Powers Clause, vests in the Congress the exclusive power to declare war, in the following wording:

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

Five wars have been declared in American history: the War of 1812, the Mexican-American War, the Spanish-American War, World War I and World War II.


American presidents often have not sought formal declarations of war, instead maintaining that they have the constitutional authority, as commander in chief (Article Two, Section Two) to use the military for "police actions".:admin1::chainsaw::rambo::s4::gunfighter2::gunfig hter2:

In 1973, Congress passed the War Powers Resolution, which requires the president to obtain either a declaration of war or a resolution authorizing the use of force from Congress within 60 days of initiating hostilities. Its constitutionality has never settled, and presidents both Democratic and Republican have repeatedly either ignored or criticised it as an unconstitutional encroachment upon the President.

Since World War II, Congress has formally authorized all the major military engagements that the US has undertaken. (Vietnam, Lebanon, Panama, Persian Gulf War, Afghanistan, and Iraq.)

Some legal scholars maintain that all military action taken without a Congressional declaration of war (regardless of the War Powers Resolution) is unconstitutional; however, the Supreme Court has never ruled directly on the matter.

War Powers Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Clause)

Because checks and balances do not exist. The Supreme Court will not rule on the matter because they are appointed by the same idiots who engage in these police actions.

Psycho4Bud
02-15-2008, 05:09 PM
So Congress knew exactly what they were authorizing when they passed that bill. Ya have to remember, even before the Bush terms these same dems in congress were on record stating that Sadamm was a threat with intentions on getting WMD's.

Back to the thread.....it's good to hear that we have these assclowns on the path defeat.:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

88888888
02-15-2008, 05:51 PM
why put this stuff on cannabis.com lets talk about weed not war!

rascleattop
02-15-2008, 08:39 PM
psycho4bud as i read this entire thread you continuously took every word out of my mouth - i agree with everything you say! great find.

ijustloveweed
02-16-2008, 12:53 AM
this is why im going to go start a new civilization on another planet soon, i need some women so sign up

human8
02-16-2008, 08:28 AM
I was born in 'meriKa, land of cheesy GIF animation.

Rusty Trichome
02-16-2008, 02:24 PM
why put this stuff on cannabis.com lets talk about weed not war!
Why not discuss current issues here? Would definatelly be inappropriate to be discussing ranching or sports in this forum.
(unless it was to highlight R. Pauls amorous encounters with small farm animals, or Billary's new hobby: Whitewater rafting in a blue dress) :jointsmile:

Simply put...this is where the big girls and boys meet, to stress about semantics.

psteve
02-16-2008, 04:30 PM
Ya have to remember, even before the Bush terms these same dems in congress were on record stating that Sadamm was a threat with intentions on getting WMD's.
Yeah, based on good ol' Bush brand (tm) 'intelligence'.
Don't forget that the CIA was already in Bush's pocket BEFORE he was elected.

denial102
02-16-2008, 04:33 PM
Anybody seen any WMD's? I think saddamn lost his WMD's.

WMD's another ecclectic word to add to War on Terror, just less ridiculous!

Peace,
Denial

Rusty Trichome
02-16-2008, 04:38 PM
Yeah, based on good ol' Bush brand (tm) 'intelligence'.
Don't forget that the CIA was already in Bush's pocket BEFORE he was elected.
Oh well. Since there was no intelligence during the Clinton years, I guess we had to rely on the Bush intelligence.
As there is still no intelligence coming from the Clinton Machine, perhaps she could add Ron Paul to her ticket. (Dems seem to love his intelligence)


Anybody seen any WMD's? I think saddamn lost his WMD's.
WMD's another ecclectic word to add to War on Terror, just less ridiculous! Denial
Awww...did someone forget to do their homework?
Saddam Pursued Nukes - Newsmax.com (http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/terror_watch/2007/11/12/48741.html)

Psycho4Bud
02-16-2008, 05:50 PM
Yeah, based on good ol' Bush brand (tm) 'intelligence'.

The Dems were stating this during the Clinton years. What does it have to do with Bush? You can't blame G.W. for comments made BEFORE he even hit Washington.

Have a good one!:s4:

psteve
02-16-2008, 06:01 PM
The Dems were stating this during the Clinton years. What does it have to do with Bush? You can't blame G.W. for comments made BEFORE he even hit Washington.

Have a good one!:s4:Who says I'm talking about w?
Hw has controlled the cia since the Reagan days.

P.S.
Did I say Clinton was any better?

melodious fellow
02-16-2008, 06:33 PM
Awww...did someone forget to do their homework?
Saddam Pursued Nukes - Newsmax.com (http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/terror_watch/2007/11/12/48741.html)

Has anyone ever thought about the fact that we are the only country ever to nuke anyone?

Maybe Canada should invade us since we have Weapons of Mass Destruction.

medicinal
02-17-2008, 12:53 AM
And we should believe a few reports from the only generals left that Bush hasn't shitcanned for telling the truth, hell yeah, feed me, feed me. Lets see, a trillion bucks soon to be 2 trillion, 4,000+++ Americans dead, 30,000 seriously wounded, 12,000+++ minus body parts or with traumatic head injuries, a million Iraqis dead, A country poisoned by DU and cancer spreading like wildfire, Hell yes it was worth it, after all aren't the US oil companies about to lock up the Iraqi oil fields and charge us 3.00+++ a gallon for gasoline, Hooorahhh, Come get some.

Rusty Trichome
02-17-2008, 02:08 PM
And we should believe a few reports from the only generals left that Bush hasn't shitcanned for telling the truth, hell yeah, feed me, feed me. Lets see, a trillion bucks soon to be 2 trillion, 4,000+++ Americans dead, 30,000 seriously wounded, 12,000+++ minus body parts or with traumatic head injuries, a million Iraqis dead, A country poisoned by DU and cancer spreading like wildfire, Hell yes it was worth it, after all aren't the US oil companies about to lock up the Iraqi oil fields and charge us 3.00+++ a gallon for gasoline, Hooorahhh, Come get some.

Nice rant. Perfect balance of inuendo and gossip, seriously lacking in truth, and quite off-topic. Your (in my opinion...childish) rant adds nothing to the conversation, is not sourced, and shows the Optical Rectitis (http://www.smilc.com/board.htm) you likely suffer from. At least you folks are running-up your post counts. Perhaps someone else is impressed. I, am not.

Cancer rates are skyrocketing, and DU is to blame. Yeah, thanks Doc....
Depleted uranium: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium)
"At standard temperature and pressure it is a very dense metal solid. The primary civilian uses of DU are due to its very high density and include counterweights in aircraft, radiation shields in medical radiation therapy machines, containers for the transport of radioactive materials and shielding material in industrial radiography devices. The primary military uses of DU are also due to its very high density and include defensive armor plate and armour-piercing projectiles."

"Depleted uranium munitions are controversial because of numerous unanswered questions about the long-term health effects. DU is less toxic than other heavy metals such as arsenic and mercury, and is only very weakly radioactive because of its long half life."

One million Iraqi civilians killed...nice try.
Iraq Body Count (http://www.iraqbodycount.org/)
"Iraq Body Count is an ongoing human security project which maintains and updates the world??s largest public database of violent civilian deaths during and since the 2003 invasion. The count encompasses non-combatants killed by military or paramilitary action and the breakdown in civil security following the invasion."

"Data is drawn from cross-checked media reports, hospital, morgue, NGO and official figures to produce a credible record of known deaths and incidents."

Whatever. Members come here looking for spirited debate with those that think from a different viewpoint, (operative word being 'think') and all that comes, are White Punks on Dope. No education, no sound reasoning, no proof. Like the nags on The View, parroting their own gossip in the hopes someone out there likes them.:jointsmile:

melodious fellow
02-17-2008, 02:54 PM
Nice rant. Perfect balance of inuendo and gossip, seriously lacking in truth, and quite off-topic. Your (in my opinion...childish) rant adds nothing to the conversation, is not sourced, and shows the Optical Rectitis (http://www.smilc.com/board.htm) you likely suffer from. At least you folks are running-up your post counts. Perhaps someone else is impressed. I, am not.

Like the nags on The View, parroting their own gossip in the hopes someone out there likes them.:jointsmile:

I understand your frustration Rusty and it is warranted. However, I do not believe Medicinal's intentions were to jump into this discussion and make up facts to impress others or piss you off, and diagniosing him with Optical Rectitus seems a bit harsh.
He has probably heard those numbers cited elsewhere, in the news or on another website and was likely repeating what he heard.
The bottom line is that the truth is out there somewhere as to the body count, but we will likely never know this truth. Almost every reporting agency, newspaper etc has some type of agenda, whether that be making America look worse or making Bush look foolish or to merely prevent public panic, bending facts to sell more papers, or leaving out facts because someone in Washington said it is a threat to national security.
Regarding the depleted uranium, the long term health effects are unknown. A lack of study does not make something safe. In fact, it is one of the reasons they use to keep cannabis illegal. Possible long term health effects. They also use this to allow certain artificial sweeteners that have been proven carcinogenic in animals. No people have yet volunteered to be injected with the shit, so they say "tests have not confirmed carcinogenic in humans" because the tests have not been done. Perhaps if they studied all these more they would find that cannabis and depleted uranium are both safe and Splenda is not. Or maybe depleted uranium would be found to have long term health effects as well.

Did anyone by chance see my post below? lol

peace

Rusty Trichome
02-17-2008, 03:56 PM
Kinda strange...They use depleted uranium in the medical field for shielding from radiation. (replacing lead? I wonder which is more dangerous?) It's also used in dental porcelain, pigments and glazes. Hmmm.
Also strange, are these folks freaking-out about the military using the super-dense DU for penetrating warheads, and it's "excessive radiation". Perhaps folks would rather we defend our troops with water cannons? The point of those warheads is to penetrate solid steel, and kill. No justification, no apologies. They were designed to kill those that would otherwise kill our guys-n-gals. DU is also used to clad tanks and troop haulers, offering a greater level of protection from RPG and missle attacks.

Again, in regards to the safety of DU:
Depleted Uranium and the IAEA (http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/Features/DU/du_qaa.shtml#q8)

Since the advent of the nuclear age, there has been widespread use of uranium involving the mining of uranium ore, enrichment, and nuclear fuel fabrication. These industries have employed large numbers of people, and studies of the health of working populations have been carried out. The main risk to miners, and not just those involved in uranium mining, comes from exposures to radon (mainly Rn-222) gas and its decay products. A study of miners who worked in poorly ventilated mines at a time when the hazards of radon were not known and thus had been exposed to high levels of radon, demonstrated that this group had an excess of lung cancers and that the risk of cancer increased with increasing exposure to radon gas. Studies of workers exposed to uranium in the nuclear fuel cycle have also been carried out. There are some reported excesses of cancers but, unlike the miners, no correlation with exposure can be seen. The main finding of these studies has been that the health of workers is better than the average population. This "healthy worker effect" is thought to be due to the selection process inherent in employment and to the overall benefits of employment.

Regarding exposures to DU, there have been studies of the health of military personnel who saw action in the Gulf War (1990-1991) and during the Balkan conflicts (1994-99). A small number of Gulf war veterans have inoperable fragments of DU embedded in their bodies. They have been the subject of intense study and the results have been published. These veterans show elevated excretion levels of DU in urine but, so far, there have been no observable health effects due to DU in this group. There have also been epidemiological studies of the health of military personnel who saw action in conflicts where DU was used, comparing them with the health of personnel who were not in the war zones. The results of these studies have been published and the main conclusion is that the war veterans do show a small (i.e., not statistically significant) increase in mortality rates, but this excess is due to accidents rather than disease. This cannot be linked to any exposures to DU.

And yes, I do have little patience for those unwilling to search any deeper for the truth, than late-night comedians, editorial journalists, and peer pressure from jr. high dropouts looking to even the score with society for their own inadequacies, by pushing conspiracy theories and snide remarks that are unsubstantiated, untrue, and patently nonsensical. <takes deep breath>
Lack of intelligent reasoning or enlightenment, appears to be the new norm.

pisshead
02-18-2008, 05:25 AM
some more info on DU for those interested...

The DU Radioactive Destruction
Of Iraq - An Overview

(http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=AL-20060831&articleId=3116)New 'Stryker' Boasts
105mm DU Firing Cannon (http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/story/6102144p-5347604c.html)

NY Iraq War Vets Take
DU Exposure To Court (http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=13869&TagID=2)

DU Data... (http://rense.com/Datapages/dudata.htm)

http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/75284-depleted-uranium-situation-worsens-requiring-immediate-action.html

http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/71138-depleted-uranium-perfect-monster-kills-quietly.html (http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/141701-radioactive-ammunition-fired-middle-east-may-claim-more-lives.html?highlight=depleted+uranium)

http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/71138-depleted-uranium-perfect-monster-kills-quietly.html (http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/71138-depleted-uranium-perfect-monster-kills-quietly.html)

psteve
02-18-2008, 06:29 AM
You can't blame G.W. for comments made BEFORE he even hit Washington.

Have a good one!:s4:Who says I'm talking about w?
Hw has controlled the cia since the Reagan days.

P.S.
Did I say Clinton was any better?...

Psycho4Bud
02-18-2008, 12:00 PM
Who says I'm talking about w?
Hw has controlled the cia since the Reagan days.

P.S.
Did I say Clinton was any better?

No, but didn't Clinton appoint his own people to that position? I think that people give the Bush family way to much credit. Hell, the first Bush was a one term wonder.

Have a good one!:s4:

SantaClawz
02-18-2008, 12:04 PM
Terror!

Terror Threat!

Terroist!

Weapons of MASS destruction!

Believed to be linked to Al-Qaeda.........

:wtf:

Rusty Trichome
02-18-2008, 02:29 PM
some more info on DU for those interested...

The DU Radioactive Destruction
Of Iraq - An Overview

(http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=AL-20060831&articleId=3116)New 'Stryker' Boasts
105mm DU Firing Cannon (http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/story/6102144p-5347604c.html)
Did you look at the articles you post?

This came from your first link: (the complete article, a couple of pages down) Written by: Souad N. Al-Azzawi Author of this article, too:

"The American administration still claims that the biological and chemical agents of hydrocarbon smoke of oil field fires in southern Iraq are the main causes behind the (GWS) and not the exposure to the DU" [2][4].

"The previously published data of the types and amounts of the chemical fumes and hydrocarbons that were released to Iraq??s environment in each Iraqi city due to the 1991 air raids and bombing [5] [6] proves that the areas of Ta??meem, and Salahiddin were the most polluted cities due to the destruction of mines and huge material and armed forces industries. This resulted in the formation of SOx, NOx, and COx plumes and hydrocarbon smoke clouds. In addition to the pollution that resulted from the burning of thousands of rubber tires used to mislead Tomahawk missiles off their targets (Table 1)."
Written by: Souad N. Al-Azzawi Who authored this gem, too:

"Deterioration of women's rights in Iraq began during the US-UN comprehensive economical sanctions imposed on Iraqi during the nineties. In 2003, the invasion of Iraq by the USA and its allies resulted in the descent of the rights of women just like other elements in Iraqi society, infrastructure and the general quality of life."


Did you look-up what gulf war syndrome is?
Gulf War syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_syndrome)

The stryker article contained one reference to DU, but nothing in the article mentioned problems with the low-level radiation affecting troops:

"The MGS will carry four types of ammunition: a depleted-uranium armor-piercing round, a high-explosive anti-tank round, a high-explosive plastic round for blowing through walls and barricades, and a canister round filled with 2,300 tungsten ball bearings for firing on enemy fighters.

I didn't bother checking the rest of your links, as the first two were apparently dismal failures on your part. Doing half-assed job Googling a subject, will give you a half-assed understanding, and can make ya look rather foolish, too.