LED Grow: 1st grow, 56W max, Northern Lights

[maspino1]

Ok, this is my first ever serious grow, meaning I actually know what I'm doing. As well, I have a green thumb so it isn't my first plant grown.
It will be under LED lights, going up to a maximum of 64W using "china panels" according to stealth (you'll see them in the pics).

For nutes, I'm using Botanicare's Bloom Pro, Liquid Karma and Gro Pro. Pre-mixed nutes:
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/pre_nutes.JPG
L>R:bloom, gro, and a tiny bottle for foliar spraying the seedling
all of them also have liquid karma mixed in the water

I started off with cactus soil, and I buried the seed (lol) Sunday, February 3rd. Came out of the ground on February 4th.

I'm gonna use 2 boxes, the one I used to germinate was this one:
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/light%20setup.JPG
and i transferred it to this box as soon as i saw the cotyledons turn green (height=2.333_ ft):
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/S7300366_020508.JPG

this is before the camera adjusted the lighting, it's not as magenta as the procyon though :S
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/S7300370_020508.JPG

this is after camer adjustment and ya, it just looks blue:
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/S7300371_020508.JPG

February 6th:
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/day%201.JPG

[maspino1]

56W meaning 4x13.somethingW panels rounded up to 14W. I'm using 3 right now but I will
be using all of them in later vegging. btw, i got these for a good price at ebay, 4 for like $131CAD.

ok, in reference to tuesday being day 1, now it's friday so it's day 3 and this is what it looks
like:
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/S7300380_020808.JPG

forgot to mention that i transferred the entire thing to a 14oz white
beer cup and it's in coir now, and i've been foliar feeding it with
the zinfandel bottle's contents (see first post)

[Backpacker420]

Cool, I'm definitely watching this thread.

Anyways, you might wanna install some type of ventilation to your cabinet, I don't think the stale air is good for your little babies...

[maspino1]

already got that on my checklist, i just need money to buy a fan and transformer
you're right though, i already have the soil well below the cup edge.
but i've been opening it up to check on the vin+bs mix (for co2 just in case)

[stinkyattic]

VERY cool but pre-mixing nutes is just begging for trouble. The blue LED light is crazygonuts, now I want them for my living room lol!

[maspino1]

no nooo, the blue lights give me a MASSIVE headache when i get them in my eyes for too long :(
it's so eerie though because when i get the leaking of the light on white objects it has a
similar glow to a black light's... it's really strange

oh, and why shouldn't i pre-mix nutes?

[stinkyattic]

I posted on the other thread that you put up pics of that vintage of nutes lol but the chemical components can interact in undesirable ways. Theya re intended to be mixed immediately prior to use.

[maspino1]

oh great. i'll have to keep a close watch when i get to using them and act accordingly :(

[maspino1]

OK, I have a problem now... My first set of leaves is fine but it seems to be drooping, not wilting, drooping.

I think it's either:

1) the baking soda and vinegar mix is setting off fumes that the plant doesn't like
2) the effect is common with LED lights
3) i may have over foliar fed

so far i've taken out the co2 mix but it's only been 15 minutes

[maspino1]

this is kind of what is happening
http://www.hg420.com/gallery/data/500/7189100_0069.JPG
that isn't my plant obviously but it's got the same thing my leaves are doing
sans discoloration on tips

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Maspino,

I think you are using nutes way to early in growth IMO. I don't start mine until they come out of the seedling stage or first set of 5 finger leaves. There are plenty of nutes in the soil for seedlings.

Do you have any more seeds? I would be ready for a back up plan because you are basicaly doing an experiment and you will want your seedlings as healthy as possiable. I don't think you have a light problem, just a nute and watering issue going on right now that may affect somthing down the road, just my opinion.

[maspino1]

thanks so much for helping :)
so far i've stopped the foliar feed and just misted water on it to wash out the shit
i have 1 more seed but it's cool if it turns out male, i need pollen for my peruvian house bees anyway

[smok3y]

Hey dude your grow box is preety cool man.. You could add a few pc fans in to ur box, it will help.. I think your feedin ur babies nutes a bit too early, you mite want to wait a week or 2..

Ill defo be watching this.. Good luck:thumbsup:

[maspino1]

thanks for the input smokey :)

ok, so i was really kidding about the house bees. here is the pic of my plant and what it's doing,
unfortunately my camera won't focus properly. i don't know why though.
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/S7300390.JPG
DAY 4

[maspino1]

so the droop is gone. i think it's grown bigger too, the leaves are a bit softer than they were,
like normal plant leaves.

http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/S7300400_021008.JPG
DAY 5

that's FlashCat right behind there

[New2Dro]

Hey dude your grow box is preety cool man.. You could add a few pc fans in to ur box, it will help.. I think your feedin ur babies nutes a bit too early, you mite want to wait a week or 2..

Ill defo be watching this.. Good luck:thumbsup:

Hey, I started watching your grow in Sns's thread, and your LED's are way better priced then his. I've been following the actions on ebay my self. (so i'll be tuned in for the long-hall +/-)


How do you power the PC fans on a grow bow setup, they all have that power supply hook up? :wtf:

[maspino1]

oh ya, for sure, he has the procyons lol, mine were like 1/6 the price of his [or if i'm not mistaken, theirs, right?]
but just type in "led grow" and then set listings to "ending soonest" and the red time markers
will be your indicator
and it's sold by ledwholesalers.com

well, since im gonna be using all 4 of my lights, im gonna take advantage of the hole on top
and im gonna get a square flap of white foamboard as well and stick a hole in the middle
so i can attack a pc fan wired to a 12v transformer
i'm gonna radio shack the whole thing

PS>ledwholesalers has amazing shipping, i had my lights within a week and a half

[SnSstealth]

yeah man, too early for nutes, and be careful with watering. since your using LEDs, the plants sweat WAY less, and the soil temp doesnt rise much. the drooping is prob just over watering. happened once with mine, but soon as you see how much water they like, they are fine. the plants will use prob half the water as they normally do.
and good luck with the china panels. told ya we got some before the procyon, and they were crappy. we got them off ebay, from the same people. just trying to help man.

whiskeytango

[maspino1]

thanks guys, i actually need all the help i can get because it's been a week so far and
my plant is hella small! i came home today expecting more but i guess my plant must be
rootbound. et voila:

http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/S7300415_021308.JPG
DAY 8

sorry about the shitty pics, my photoshop isn't working AT ALL and my camera is from air miles.

PS> to stealth: thanks for checking on my grow, im really excited
about your results and if you harvest some good buds im gonna buy
a procyon too

[SnSstealth]

oh ya, for sure, he has the procyons lol, mine were like 1/6 the price of his [or if i'm not mistaken, theirs, right?]

so hows that working for ya?....lol..live and learn, and you get what you pay for....

[maspino1]

grr now i have to spend more money lol
it's cool though, im just gonna see how far these panels will actually take me

[SnSstealth]

Please do finish what you can! One of the main reasons we started our thread was to show everyone (including us) what these products can do on their own. They're being sold as grow lights so it would be a good thing to know how they grow, without changing mid grow because of results or advise by others. thats how we will know.

Doughboy:smokin:

[maspino1]

sweet, it's great to hear encouragement like that
and yes, i am going to go all the way to the finish line and make use of what i paid for lol
but i think after led's, depending on results from yours and my log, im gonna switch to t5ho
because it just seems more for the money and t5 lights give off a wider spectrum based
on their spectra anyway
not to mention people keep asking what that purple light in my room is lol

PS>wider spectrum based on their spectra in my own scientific world lol
is like all frequencies varying in amounts based on bulb temperature

[SnSstealth]

and yes, there are 2 of us
whiskeytango and doughboy

[maspino1]

umm.. update?
my third set of leaves are growing in already but they've grown underneath my second
set of leaves
out of all the cannabis seedlings i've seen this hasn't happened, it's so fucked
i would take a pic if my camera wasn't so 2005

[denial102]

Please do finish what you can! One of the main reasons we started our thread was to show everyone (including us) what these products can do on their own. They're being sold as grow lights so it would be a good thing to know how they grow, without changing mid grow because of results or advise by others. thats how we will know.

Doughboy:smokin:

word!


umm.. update?
my third set of leaves are growing in already but they've grown underneath my second
set of leaves
out of all the cannabis seedlings i've seen this hasn't happened, it's so fucked
i would take a pic if my camera wasn't so 2005

thats fucked up dude, you have to take a picture :) sounds interesting, try and think what you might have done to get that to happen, you might be the FIM of the LED'ers :-)

teeeeeeheee,

Peace,
Denial

[maspino1]

wait, what's a FIM?

i'll take a pic as soon as the third set is big enough cuz my camera
is a piece of digested excrement

[SnSstealth]

we unfortunately ARE the test subjects for this matter maspino, you too now that your in it... so we gotta figure alot of this shit out...dont know if you saw our mutant, but i think it might be something with the LEDs...ours keeps putting out 3 leaves instead of 2 at each node....hope that means more bud production too:thumbsup:
if that plant is still living, i would keep it for now man...mutants can make DANK!!!!
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[maspino1]

yup, my plant is definitely growing 3 leaves :O lol
i can't show you though because, im sure everyone knows by now, my camera isn't that great :(

[Paht_Hed]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but, those "grow lights" aren't actually grow lights. I have seen those before when I first started doing my LED research and delved a little deeper into them. First of all the amount of lumens put out by a single light is next to nothing when talking about growing plants. Second, those LEDs aren't even close to te wavelengths needed for optimal growth. When I say aren't even close I mean someone just took some blue LEDs without looking at the wavelength and so red LEDs and wired them to a board. I don't have all the numbers at hand anymore, the Procyon 100 is about the best LED grow light you can buy. It comes as close to the spectrum needed for plant growth as you can get but even it is still off a bit. Growing properly with LEDs is going to ream you out the ass when it comes to cash. The proper LEDs needed are some of the MOST expensive on the market. I have seen the argument that LEDs are way more energy efficient than HPS/MH/T5. That efficiency drops dramatically if you don't have the correct spectrum and also drops dramatically once you achieve the correct spectrum. This is b/c the LEDs that are needed are no where near as efficient as the white high power 1-5 watt LEDs that put out 100 lm/watt. You would be lucky to achieve 70-90 lm/watt with the correct LEDs.
Simply put, LEDs are not where it is at right now. Give it a few years and it may be there. China recently manufactured a 2 inch x 2 inch 200 watt diode that boasts and INCREDIBLE 200,000 lumens. Unfortunatley EACH of these diodes cost over $1,000,000, thats right 1 MILLION US DOLLARS, now this includes the cost of research and development of these diodes. The cost to create them is negligible BUT you won't be able to purchase them cheap b/c of the amount of money that went into designing them. To top it off these diodes ran for only a short amount of time (no longer than 24 hours each) before they burnt out.
I am not discouraging experimentation with LEDs, just trying to educate those who really want to start growing with them. You cannot be cost efficient and still grow with LEDs as they are now.

Looking for a good alternative to LEDs that don't put out much heat and are still reasonably efficient, go with T5's. You can purchase a 432 watt system that emits 40k lumens for 200-300 US dollars. The great thing about T5's, you can put them 2-5 INCHES away from your plants and as we all know, lumens degrade at a distance square to your light right? Well put you light that close to your plants and you will be using nearly ALL 40k lumens which is more than enough for two plants. Also, T5's have the best spectrum for growing plants. 2700k and 6500k almost dead on hit the two peaks of cannabis plants which are roughly 425 nm and 660 nm (this is the combined photosynthesis of all the pigments). Also T5's unlike MH and HPS run cool. I ran a CFL setup for my last grow and they ran so cool I could put my cheek to them. Try that with an HPS/MH.

[maspino1]

ya i was really skeptical about the led's and from what i've seen so far they're really not that great
and stealth already told me these panels aren't any use at all but since i've jumped on the led
bandwagon i might as well finish it to the end
besides, it's great to look forward to after a 12 hour shift
and definitely going with t5 ho next time, i already found some on yahoo

[SnSstealth]

eh..........i will agree with you to an extent paht head...dont know if you have seen our plants...but they are growing pretty bad ass....the procyons were hella expensive, give ya that......but our whole room is getting almost 5k lumens at the soil level...and the Nm are almost dead on....while they do need some work...i have a feeling our 300w system will do close to avg for the 20 plants we have...IMHO
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[Paht_Hed]

Ok so pic one is your plant out how many weeks?
Pic two is my first plant from bagseed (turned out to be male) at 3 weeks (consider it to be 20 days) from when I put the seed in the paper towel. Using 260 watts of cfls.
Just as something to compare. I am not sure what week you are in so a lil feedback would be appreciated.

The procyon using 635nm and 470nm leds. As I stated you need 425nm and 660nm for optimal growth. You may be getting 5,000 lumens at the soil level but your plant can only use so much of those lumens. 635nm peaks at 68% where as 660nm peaks at 95%. 470nm at 78% 425nm at 100% usage. This means you get an average of 97.5% lumen usage with 425,660nm leds and a much lower 73% average lumen usage with the Procyon. These numbers will vary (in fact the average should decline) since the Procyon has a larger number of red leds than blue. Which brings me to another issue. A near equal number of leds would be the best for a single LED grow light. A larger number of red LED like the procyon has should be used for flowering and in that aspect I think you will see some benefits from your LED light. I predict average sized buds with high resin counts, partially due to the stress caused from an improper spectrum. You will most likely see a lot of stretching during veg though.

And again I applaud you two for taking the innitiative to propagate with LEDs.

Just my :twocents:

Now I must be getting back to my bowl covered in kief :jointsmile:

[SnSstealth]

ill agree with ya in that we are still off on ideal...we will be supplementing lights next grow depending on the outcome...since sales are not our primary goal...more potent @ less yeild is quite key for me...everything i have read, they all share the fact that resin output does increase with these and the UFO... adding some other colors to our grow next time, i think will be a serious deal...if we are this close to good now.........mmmm
and as for the comparison....they are pretty close in age....jack herer tends to be a slow starter, and for some reason, we got WAY more lateral growth than vert growth, so we raised the lights back up to 18in....this first run is ALL experiment....so next time we can truely see LEDs potential.....who knows, marsipno may help us in getting info on on these...thanks for your imput paht...feel free to stop in my thread sometime
marspino....dont give up on the LEDs man!!!! if making your own panels seems better for ya, talk to me, physicsnole and opie yutts...those 2 guys know ALOT of the scientific aspect of LEDs as well.......
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[maspino1]

wow, ya i have been noticed an increase in internode length, just recently, it's stretching
for no reason :S
thanks for all the encouragement stealth, don't worry i'll stick it out with you guys since
i'm all up for results as well
and i think after this grow if results are insatisfactory then im gonna go with t5 like paht hed
mentioned

[maspino1]

UPDATE
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/S7300432_021508.JPG
this is how the LEDs are set up inside the box now, at the full 56W and hopefully
the angled positions of the upper panels blends into both frequencies hitting the plants'
leaves and increasing growth sans stretch

plant pic updates on wednesday night

[SnSstealth]

much better....fingers crossed for ya!!!!
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

[maspino1]

i forgot to ask:
my box isn't a sealed off container. the seams of the walls are held together with nails
top, middle and bottom and is sealed with breathable fabric medical tape and the
panels create like a few mm of space on each side so would a fan still be necessary?
even as well with the yeast and sugar concoction, it seeps out of the box and gives me
headaches.
let me hear your tips and suggestions, thanks

[SnSstealth]

yeah man, regardless of temp, you need circulating air around the girls at all times...IMO
:somkebong:
whiskeytango

[maspino1]

ok, so a tiny update:

my cotyledons are dying now so that must mean the plant is on its way
it's either that or nute burn but the latter seems unlikely since my other leaves are doing
fine
i'll post a pic tonight if i can, my camera's being a prima cameradonna for no fucking reason

[maspino1]

UPDATE: Day 14 - End of Week 2
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/day%2014%20-%20end%20of%20week%202%20022008.jpg
increased saturation to enable more detail, btw, the plants look more nute burned than
they really are but of course my POS camera won't show that

[maspino1]

it's either the led's aren't giving enough energy for increased vertical growth or the fact
that i have a trifoliate makes it a runt from what i've read
but there's a promise of it being female if it makes it to flower
*sigh* i'm gonna have to grind out the weeks and weeks of waiting for this grow to finish :(

[SnSstealth]

well mas, sorry to say but those pictures are all i ever needed to know about the china panels. Thought i might fix the one i got and try clones (ala CFL) but not now, Hey maybe I could sell it on ebay as a grow light...lol sorry:D:D

2 weeks two sets of leaves about 1' 1/2 tall.:wtf: uhh...hope they hold on for ya.

Db:smokin:

[maspino1]

well, it's cool, im gonna deviate from delving deeper into the mysteries of led lights lol
im totally gonna buy the procyon next paycheck or wait for the cree kit

[SnSstealth]

im happy to hear your still going at it. remember even though you did not get what you wanted, we do have some documented evidence of those lights on pot plants. Thats very valuable to all of our research:thumbsup:

Db:smokin:

[maspino1]

i could also use it as proof towards the non-efficiency of growing actual plants if i ever want
my money back lol
but i think whatever lights i will be using in the future they'll still prove to be useful since they
run cool and do add more of part of the spectrum plants love nonetheless

[SnSstealth]

what soil are you using? it looks like mulch on top.

Db:smokin:

[maspino1]

lol im using coco
im either going to find a hydro store that has t5 lights in my city today or order online
god, it's like no one in my city stocks t5 lights, it's so annoying

[maspino1]

epic, i just found a hydro shop with great customer service
the guy was sooo nice lol

[maspino1]

in addition to the led's i have added 2 ho t5 bulbs
they're so amazing, they're so bright they go right through my box made of foam board
here's the pic of the inside
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/MDC%20con%20T5.JPG
notice how it actually makes the led's look like they're not really on?

[maspino1]

grr i just changed my setup again, this is getting complicated

[physicsnole]

I'm not saying 5mm LED's are great but I was planning on making a 5mm array with drivers and all. It was a 1400 LED panel. Each LED about 6000mcd so a lot of lumens (but not as much compared to high power though). My design would probably have worked pretty well, probably alot better than yours however (not shit talking but I don't think yours is the best 5mm LED panel). I designed the circuit board and everything with a computer program. Ill try to load pics. I can give you files if you want to explore that path. 5mm are VERY cheap so you could have a real kick-ass 5mm panel for about $40.

[maspino1]

oh please, be my guest and shit talk these panels all you want, they're just my "supplementary" lights now anyway
and yes, please do send me a copy of the files, i still am interested in led technology but
for now im just tryin to get some stash lol

[physicsnole]

How do you message on here? can you send attachments? an e-mail will work

[SnSstealth]

hey maspino....now we KNOW about those panels...someone had to test em..(we did to..lol) do your other grows and get a procyon;)...lol
:smokebong:
whiskeytango

keep up the experimentation!!!!

[maspino1]

ooh yes, definitely got the procyon in mind
and we totally proved these panels wrong so that's 2 testaments to their inefficiency
im so happy now tht my plant is actually going to get bigger

[SnSstealth]

well at least you have SEEn what the procyon can do so far...lol, i trimmed the plants up...flowering in a weel!!!! pics on thread....
:smokebong:
WT

[maspino1]

sweet! i can't wait to see how well it does

[maspino1]

OMG! HELP! i just took out the top cup with the plant in it and the roots are growing through
the drainage holes!! what should i do??
they're both white dixie cups so the light just shines through like
it's nothing, and i know roots aren't supposed to see light

[maspino1]

tonight i flushed my medium with distilled water and then foliar fed with a weak liquid karma and epsom salt solution
since i was getting burn on the edge of the older leaves

[maspino1]

is this nute burn or N deficiency?
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/470781/Grow/0224080101.jpg

[physicsnole]

Wish I could help you Maspino....but not too much knowledge on the subject

[maspino1]

thanks anyway physicsnole. it's cool now, i guess after i flushed the coco out the plant regained
its health

[physicsnole]

Good. Are you still using the 56W (or whatever they are) LED panels??? JW. Would like to see more on your LED experience.

[maspino1]

oh, there's nothing more to see about those retarded panels
i just use it as extra blue light along wtih my t5's now
so now it's really 61W worth of led and fluorescent together

[phatsesh101]

I think your plants look to be having great results a foot at 3 weeks is great i have mh, hps, t5ho, all at 400w. i use them all differently and ive noticed different strains perform differntly between them i use t5 generally for my cloens on to mh then finish hps thanks for experimenting ive been wanting to go led ive heard you run nutes of half ppm with led and i run just a lil more than that with my aero so aside from power you could save money on nutes even as a suppliment it looks great:smokin:

[Gilfaethwy]

SnSstealth,

I'm yet another of the newbie lurkers who joined to watch your thread :D

Sir, I must say, you are a Visionary, a Pioneer, a Scientist, and from reading your posts on the forum I believe a Gentleman as well.

This is absolutely astounding and revolutionary work you are doing, and I applaud you for both taking the plunge on this experiment, and for sharing the data on your results as well. I hope you continue and share data about your final yield.

Of course I didn't pipe in to merely to shower you with gratitude and accolades, I do have some thoughts to contribute to the discussion on LED grow theory.

One of the earlier posters in the thread said something about how you are the first to do an LED grow with "close to half enough lumens" or something like that, in a tongue in cheek sort of way, but I think he was on to something.

There's a lot of stuff out there now being sold as "LED grow lights" that is really just snake oil. Most of the products just don't put out nearly enough lumens. My rough calculations about the Procyon 100's indicate they should be putting out somewhere between 8,000-15,000 lumens each. Your measurement of light intensity of 4000-5000 lumens meshes well that estimate.

I don't mean to insult other posters, especially maspino1, but I think he got ripped off. There's way too many scammers selling junk that just isn't capable of getting the job done.

At the same time, the results you are getting with a light intensity as low as 10,000 lumens is absolutely astonishing. It's comparable to 50,000-100,000+ lumen Metal Halide and Sodium lamps. It's a remarkable vindication of the theory behind LED grow lighting. By which I mean the theory that by using LED's spectral selectivity to produce only those frequencies of light beneficial to plant growth, remarkable power and light efficiencies should be possible.

And you've done it. This is also another example of a tragic casualty of the war on drugs. Cannabis is not a low light crop by any means. What you've done is publication worthy research. Research that would propel high density agriculture ahead by 10 years at least! And It's going to go unacknowledged by prejudice and bigotry.

Again, I applaud and congratulate you on this important work and look forward to hearing more!

[SnSstealth]

WOW! thanks alot

kudos for reading the whole post:thumbsup:(...then posting it in maspino's...lol). j/k

i agree that most LED grow lights are bunk snake oil, stay away from ebay. the research ive seen on the prototype of these lights have shown they can grow tomatoes just fine(i know, i know).

Lumens however are a stumbling block in this endeavor. we believe that the lumen output is higher in the right spectrum due to how lm are measured and the losses of HID energy to heat.

and there are still people telling us we dont have enough blue for veg...lol

I'm pretty sure that some of the 50 or so theyve sold will go to legal researchers that will get the ball rolling.

thanks again,
Db:smokin:

[Gilfaethwy]

Oh dear!

maspino, I'm sorry for posting my previous post in your thread. I was trying to figure out where my post went and then posted again in SnSstealth's (which is where I meant to in the first place).:confused:

I had a bunch of windows open with threads I was following. I must have hit reply in the wrong one!

[maspino1]

it's cool, no heat bro
i gotta agree with you, i was totally ripped off
but it's all good, lesson learned
my plant, frank, is doing better with 2 t5's and 1 led panel now
im trying to find the thread for my other plant lucy, she's doing great
coco, t5 and nutes seem to be doing great for me, she's huge!

[SnSstealth]

im trying to find the thread for my other plant lucy, she's doing great
coco, t5 and nutes seem to be doing great for me, she's huge!

glad to hear that mas, hope she gets nice and big for ya:thumbsup:

Db:smokin:

[Artisin530x]

Hey maspino1, i read through your thread, its a bummer those LED's are giving you such a hassle, can't wait until a breakthrough in technology!

You posted earlier about your POS P&S ;]


unfortunately my camera won't focus properly. i don't know why though.
DAY 4

The camera works fine, its just not designed for macro shots. What you can do to increase clarity is just back up about six inches. The camera is incapable of focusing at that range, notice in almost every shot your plants are out of focus, but the keyboard, etc are in-focus.. this is your minimum focal depth. Unfortunately when you back up your plant will be farther away, but lucky for us there is always cropping ;] Hope this helps!

[SnSstealth]

can't wait until a breakthrough in technology!

hey artisin, please see the second link in my signature for what we believe may be the next breakthrough:thumbsup:

Db:smokin:

[Artisin530x]

hey artisin, please see the second link in my signature for what we believe may be the next breakthrough:thumbsup:

Db:smokin:

Checking it out now..