Problems in Soiless

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

My grow is:

Indoor,soilless,Sunshine mix #4 and #2.

Nutes I have and use consist of:

Super thrive 1-1-1
Earth juice grow
Silica blast
tiger bloom 2-8-4
Ego grow part 1 5-0-3
organa guano 0-2-0
Thrive alive red
BC bloom 1-4-7

And recently got:

Mineral Matrix:

soluble potash (k20) 1.0%
Maghnesuim (Mg) 0.5%
Sulfur (S) combined 3.0%
Boron (B) 0.02%
Copper (Cu) 0.05%
0.05% WAter soluble copper
Iron (Fe) 2.0%
Manganese (Mn) 2.0%
2.0% Water Soluble Manganese
Molybdenum (M0) 0.0005%
Zinc (Zn) #.0%
3.0% WAter Soluble Zinc

The soil PH seems to be around 5.8-5.9(run off indicates this) I water with PH of 6.3-6.1(Note this has not always been the case i had a faulty meter a few weeks back but now things are under control) The water source is a 19 Gallon bucket I leave sitting out overnite at a minimum, ussually a few days though. I PH up/down in a 2 gallon bucket.

These plants are just over 2 months old. I water wevery 2-3 days, or when pots are light. I feed them every other watering. Ussually i give 1 gallon doses of my nute lineup to 2 gallons so 1/2 doses i guess?

The plants are under 2 400 watt HID MH's. They are around a foot under them or so now the plants are about 4 feet or so....24/0 light Temps are around 75 give or take 2-3 degrees. RH is 55-50% The room is always open, It has one oscillating Fan.

My prob is lots of yellow leaves, With spotting upper growth seems to be fine but it is spreading somewhat (i think)

Anyway here are some pictures.

Plant #6


http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5776/p1310223xa5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4671/p1310224bj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1539/p1310225zi1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/803/p1310226oo3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6761/p1310227fy9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7400/p1310228zz8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2633/p1310229ws5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/597/p1310230ux4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/545/p1310231mh3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/6429/p1310232am3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Plant 4:

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4532/p1310233aw1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3612/p1310238qi1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2718/p1310239ee0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/7443/p1310241od6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/447/p1310244nk4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3632/p1310245mz8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5395/p1310246wy3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9613/p1310247sm8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6082/p1310251ti7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1707/p1310252yc1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2807/p1310254ya6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Dual Plant:


http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3500/p1310249se6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9210/p1310255tv5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7238/p1310256pu4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/733/p1310257fa8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9967/p1310258hu1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7863/p1310259ov5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Sorry for the links for some reason my proxy wont let the attachment thing come up

[stinkyattic]

Someone else posted pics of the exact same problem- chocolate-colored spots- and I couldn't quite place it either. My suspicion is fungus but that's not a diagnosis by any stretch.
What I DO see is a multi-nute deficiency starting with Magnesium and Nitrogen, plus enough tip scorch to make me think LOCKOUT.
You are likely due for a flush, and I'd suggest adding some Serenade (bacillus subtilis) to the final flush to guard against fungal infection in the root zone.
Your nute cocktail is pretty crazy- that's a lot of stuff going into your nute solution. One thing that sticks out is that you are using 2 different 'thrives' which you should never do. They are already so easy to OD on that doubling up is just begging for trouble. Never use more than one drop per gallon of the superthrive in your normal feeding schedule.
I'd cut way back- strip your nutes down to the bare minimum of a complete grow fertilizer with no thrive, and the silica blast ( I think you can apply this as a foliar, and I'd do that since your soil is already in need of a flush), but go real easy on it. Something is getting locked out and the plant's immune system appears to be suffering as a result.

Edit:
Dude. That can NOT be Ronald Reagan... but it appears to be... EEP!

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Heh....Indeed it is Ronald.

As far as the nute cocktail i dont give it all that stuff its just what ive got. This is my 1st time using liquid nutes so ive had probs.A fellow grower friend of mine says he uses thrive alive red every other watering, and like 10 different kinds of nutes every other watering wich i dont understand at ALL. He claims he ph's to 6.1 never flushes till 3 weeks before harvest and uses the exact same soiless mix i do WTF??? I think he uses alot of Canna stuff though wich i havent been able to find near me.

Hardly use the superthrive so no worries there a drop sometimes during cloning or something.

So far all the roots have looked healthy (when ive transplanted) But i will do a foliar spray with the silicia should i use a wetting agent as well?

And one last Q How do i stop the lockout? I just dont understand how someone does everything almost the same as me and has the densest dankest buds ever and looks so fucking lush and i cant even keep my shit a decent green...........

[stinkyattic]

If your buddy with the crazy cocktail is running canna that would not surprise me; it has seemed very forgiving to me- I've run their hydro nutes.
IF you have a wetting agent by all means use it, or add a drop of dish soap to the sprayer.
You're not running RO water by any chance?

Can you give a rundown of what the plants have had done to them (feeding, flushing, repotting, whatever) in the past month?

This is an odd one. Almost as odd as The Gipper bottle-feeding a chimp. But not quite.

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Well alot of what i logged is inacurate cause my PH meter was fuct but here u go: (also im only gonna post about these plants #6 #4 And the dual plant)

6th of Jan Foliar feed with 1 cap of Mineral Matrix. ( that was right around the first time i posted on the site)

Jan 16th Dual plant was droppy looked underwatered so gave it water with:

1/2 cap Mineral Matrix,Earth Juice Grow,Eco part A

Jan 16th #4, #6 got Thrive alive b-1 1/2 cap 3-4 drops of super thrive (mistake got away from me) into 2 gallons. New meter that day the PH was 6.0

Jan 18th calmag+ cap,Mineral Matrix cap,1 drop superthrive, and thrive alive b-1 1/4 cap.500ml of water. 6.0 PH

Jan 21st 400ml water @ 6.8 + 200ml @ 6.5 + all nutes 100% dose.

(Note: this i dont get i didnt write this its not my writing so it mite be wrong.)

Jan 24th 400ml water + silicia blast, Mineral Matrix,TA b-1, TA Red.

Jan 27th 600 ml 6.3 ph 1 cap of thrive alive red in 6 gallons worth of water.

Jan 28th Sprayed for Powdery mildew with Defender.
Note: also these plants have been sprayed with floramite within the last 2 weeks also. Didnt log it though.

And thats about all that has to do with those specific plants that i can find.

I guess I'm going to start flushing what PH though? 6.0? My friend says he never goes out of the 6.1-6.3 range.

Oh and thats a Negatory on the RO My tap comes out around 8.5 When it sits around it gets down to about 7.5

[stinkyattic]

Okay. You have very likely hard tap water for your numbers to be that high so barring pH lockout, Calcium def is highly unlikely.
However you have created conditions for Ca def by just CRANKING those plants full of thrives. I see in a couple instances use of both in one day. Plus OD with supa-thrive. There's a problem.
Mineral matrix, silica blast, and hard water seems pretty heavy on the minerals. Another possibility.
Last, the PM and mite treatments are another possibility- did you do a sensitivity test prior to use, or raise the lights after application?
I have to defer to rhizome on this one for a proper diagnosis but my hunch is that the combination of weakening your plants with the nitrogen OD from the thrives, and then hitting them with 2 different chemical treatments, would be enough to make them look like that.

Your friend is correct for a soilless flush. That's a good pH to flush that mix with from what I know about soillless (not a lot... lol). I also think you can lay off the silica blast and mineral matrix. Your tap water could stand a spoon on end, lol! Can you get a water sample over to the hydro shop for a quick EC test to confirm?

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Yes! I'll take them a sample today. I Didnt flush last nite but I did get a nice healthly run off 400ml or more....

Myself and my roomate were planing on feeding today since we ran out of water last nite and had to refill out 19 gallon tank that we let sit out.

I've got such a clusterfuck of nutes and this is my first time using liquid shit so should i just go with like a full canna line up? Or whats a good idea? I would lke to simplify this as much as possible till i get an understanding of these chems in liquid form.

I noticed in Maximum Yield this months there alot of adds for 3 part nute systems grow,micro, and bloom. I'm thinking about just going with something all from one company, and maybe organic so it wont be as easy to fuck up....

Like Ron when he mixed my formula wrong! Thats why i never became a space monkey! THX again Stinky I been so lost without Ron and my bottle.

[stinkyattic]

I'm a fan of the Canna. And yeah, if you are relatively new to playing with nutes and supplements, a lineup/nute system designed to work together, and with feeding schedules available, is nice. I'm actually about to set up a grow for a buddy in promix with the AN lineup, complete- the nutes cost $400 to start but are supposed to be FOR a soilless medium, specifically promix, and just mix and use.
I think the clusterfuck is a good description for the source of your problems. Something is locking out the calcium in your water. It SHOULD be available but isn't, and your pH sounds like it's correct! AAARGH!

[rhizome]

Mineral/metal contents look high- I think yer pushing the Fe and the S a little hard.

Don't foliar w/ the Matrix if you don't need to. I love the shit, but those dosages are more in line for a 1/4 acre than for a couple of plants.

Why are you only using one half of the Ecogrow? Yer gauranteed out of balance right there.

I'd choose a line of nutes and go from there- First ya get a sucessful run in, then you start tweaking one thing at a time.

Yer nute schedule reminds me of that Johnny Cash tune where he sneaks an entire Cadillac out in his lunchbox, one part at a time- over twenty years. When he goes to put it together, nothing matches up.

You can get this kind of thing to work, but it's rough to troubleshoot.

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

One day I devised myself a plan
That should be the envy of most any man
I'd sneak it out of there in a lunchbox in my hand
Now gettin' caught meant gettin' fired
But I figured I'd have it all by the time I retired
I'd have me a car worth at least a hundred grand.



Hahah Stinky, Rhizome...i luv ya both.


Couldnt check the EC toda, im depedant on other fucks cause the gov says im legally blind (BS) cause some arab threw a grenade at me in some far off sandbox. But i will get it checked.

Stinky, Rhizome: I just want simple want can i go buy to save myself self-guessing....I want a lineup nute system thatwill solve this...........I gotta alot of time but i dont wanna fuck up anymore i just wanna gow badass shit, for mysef and my uncle thats in more pain then me.

We are just two dumb vets that got nothing to do......




Thank u both though. Peace.

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Went to a different grow shop today......So i could get the Canna bought the whole fucking lineup! Ran me like $307 but from what i gathered from the old guy that was working there this is the SHIT. he also talked me into going to coco but couldnt get it cause they wouldnt take my card and couldnt get enough cash to buy it all soo ill go back tomorrow and get the 5 bags i was gonna get.


I gotta tell u this shop i went to was the shit. I felt like a kid in a candy store. Best day i've had in sooooooooooooo long. This guy broke it down barney style for me i luved it. Guess i cant fuck up now huh? Muahahahah. when i get the coco ill do a grow log. Well the suns about to come up in the basement so i guess i go feed my girls. CANNA W00t!

but.....spaced out and didnt get a water sample to ec test....Oops. ill do it as soon as i can,

[Rusty Trichome]

Curious...how often do you water? I just looked at a couple of the pix. (on a sloooow DSL conn.)
When I do a flush too close to the time I last watered, the soil stays too wet for too long, resulting in leaves that are yellow with brown spots. (like yours)

At least that's what I've thought had been causing it. Doesn't happen when I allow to dry-out a bit before the flush.

edit...how often do you flush?

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Rusty:

Like a true flush never im in classic 600's wich are like 2 gallon pots(almost) And ive only ever ran maybe like a gallon threw them.....But That though not much......maybe once every 2 weeks (maybe)........My buddy thats a master at growing says he never does it until like 3 weeks from harvest so i havent been a big fan of it really.....Should i do it? Now that ive got the Canna lineup i think i may never do it till 3 weeks out like my buddy does....But inside of 14 days i try to give them a good soaking at least once.