Wrap your mind around this one

[Acouwaila]

Ok..

There is a human. And this human has a brain. And this brain reads EVERYTHING...since every SENSE is processed through your brain....you dont touch with your hands, you dont smell with your nose, you dont look with your eyes, you dont taste with your toungue, and you dont hear with your ears....they are only the tool to communicate the sense to the brain...the brain then reads the sense and translates it to where you THINK. Thats where all your opinions, memories, and ideas come in. Now...let me get to the point

If your brain IS what is containing everything in the world. Then your mind CREATES the world. But understanding this means that somehow all consciousness within every human and every THING is connected somehow to be interactive. Our brain is not existant individual from the universe. It is the universe, IT is what puts IT here. One can not exist without the other. We create this environment BY EXISTING, and this environment created us. And somehow, every being is interactive in this web of consciousness. Its like a hole that if you enter you are timeless, you never go through the other side because you are running in place (timewise)

thats how you view whats happening RIGHT NOW...this very moment you are reading this, your brain is formulating all of its opinions and beliefs of what youve just read, or maybe its stimulating more thought....any way you have it, i am a part of your thought, your world....and you are a part of mine

[ghosty]

:wtf::thumbsup:

[DAY-DREAMER-MAN]

holy shit rely :wtf::stoned:

[THClord]

I get what you mean.

Your universe, your life is like a program running in your brain, and if you shut it down, there is simply nothing.

[Coelho]

Yeah man... thats one of the deepest truths any human can utter... and yet its so hard to accept or even to believe... and yet so true...

[denial102]

Ok..

There is a human. And this human has a brain. And this brain reads EVERYTHING...since every SENSE is processed through your brain....you dont touch with your hands, you dont smell with your nose, you dont look with your eyes, you dont taste with your toungue, and you dont hear with your ears....they are only the tool to communicate the sense to the brain...the brain then reads the sense and translates it to where you THINK. Thats where all your opinions, memories, and ideas come in. Now...let me get to the point

If your brain IS what is containing everything in the world. Then your mind CREATES the world. But understanding this means that somehow all consciousness within every human and every THING is connected somehow to be interactive. Our brain is not existant individual from the universe. It is the universe, IT is what puts IT here. One can not exist without the other. We create this environment BY EXISTING, and this environment created us. And somehow, every being is interactive in this web of consciousness. Its like a hole that if you enter you are timeless, you never go through the other side because you are running in place (timewise)

thats how you view whats happening RIGHT NOW...this very moment you are reading this, your brain is formulating all of its opinions and beliefs of what youve just read, or maybe its stimulating more thought....any way you have it, i am a part of your thought, your world....and you are a part of mine

At last someone who see's reality for what it is! :thumbsup:

Watch out, you will be persecuted and ridiculed for it ;)

[McLeodGanja]

Your first paragraph contains a little too much mechanical rhetoric, but essentially I think what you are touching upon the Santiago Theory of Cognition. It is important not to draw comparison between the brain and a computer that processes information, true understanding requires a holistic paradigm. These two articles by Fritjof Capra should steer you in the right direction. I recommend his book the Web of Life.

The Santiago Theory of Cognition - Fritjof Capra (http://www.combusem.com/CAPRA4.HTM)
The Web of Life (http://www.combusem.com/CAPRA2.HTM)

[Wobster]

Have you read a book called 'The holographic universe'. If not, get it! You'll love it.

[McLeodGanja]

Have you read a book called 'The holographic universe'. If not, get it! You'll love it.

Never heard of that one. I googled it and saw that the author makes reference to David Bohm. I once started reading his book Wholeness and the Implicate Order and I got half way through the 3rd chapter before i had to put it down. It's SERIOUSY heavy and basically you have to become a devoted monk for several weeks to get your head round it i think, I've yet to make a second attempt. I've only ever managed to comprehend textual references to Bohm, the man is from another planet. He has some written dialogues he recorded with J Krishnamurti that I also want to check out sometime.

[affasd]

cool post..i agree with what your saying

[maxsuperdanks]

Yeah dude, all we are is energy vibrating slightly, that's all anything is. How do we know to stand up and walk like we do? The collective conciousness. I honestly feel when we die we go into a lifestream of sorts where infinate knowlege exists, we can then chose to expell ourselves from the life stream and re-organize our energy we're made of into another being.

[beachguy in thongs]

Ok..

There is a human. And this human has a brain. And this brain reads EVERYTHING...since every SENSE is processed through your brain....you dont touch with your hands, you dont smell with your nose, you dont look with your eyes, you dont taste with your toungue, and you dont hear with your ears....they are only the tool to communicate the sense to the brain...the brain then reads the sense and translates it to where you THINK. Thats where all your opinions, memories, and ideas come in. Now...let me get to the point

If your brain IS what is containing everything in the world. Then your mind CREATES the world. But understanding this means that somehow all consciousness within every human and every THING is connected somehow to be interactive. Our brain is not existant individual from the universe. It is the universe, IT is what puts IT here. One can not exist without the other. We create this environment BY EXISTING, and this environment created us. And somehow, every being is interactive in this web of consciousness. Its like a hole that if you enter you are timeless, you never go through the other side because you are running in place (timewise)

thats how you view whats happening RIGHT NOW...this very moment you are reading this, your brain is formulating all of its opinions and beliefs of what youve just read, or maybe its stimulating more thought....any way you have it, i am a part of your thought, your world....and you are a part of mine

And, we shared these thoughts with my girlfriend, who's talking about doing laundry!

One question. Did you create my interaction with you?

Thanks, Acouwaila. You created Our "new" universe. I entered it. And, made it Ours. Before that, it was Yours. We were forced to share it with my girlfriend talking about the laundry.

[Acouwaila]

thanks Mcleodganja. Im gonna check those out when I get back from classes today, ill let you know what i think

These ideas now are coming from my small studies ive had in zen so far. Even though I dont know the history behind zen, i think intelectually i can somewhat comprehend what it is about. Seeing things for how they are at this moment in time.

[Acouwaila]

I didnt create any of it...we all created it...it was yours in the first place you just weren aware beach guy....because remember...I am always existing....and it doesnt matter whether im around you all the time or not. I exist in your head, in your universe, and in your universe...my thoughts also exist...therefore....I didnt create this world for you at all...the world did....you did...everything did

I guess ignorance isnt the end of matter, because thought is only part of this collective consciousness

[Metaphor]

The Universe as a Hologram (http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~sai/hologram.html)

[Acouwaila]

i got class in 50 ill check it all out later

peace

[beachguy in thongs]

i got class in 50 ill check it all out later

peace

I remember you existing for a while now. Since September 25, 2006.

I live my life by the moment. I have no reason not to. I can only laugh at the past. I can only laugh at my reactions to the past. If you exist, and say that you exist, you've now walked onto my "planet" of conscious thought, which shares the same mind as the subconscious thought. Therefore, we share the same mind.

In real life, my girlfriend gets out of the shower and "ramble, ramble, ramble".

[Purple Banana]

This is some deep stuff, man. Good stuff.

[XthreeXstrikesX]

..the Matrix..:eek:

[scagster]

I don't believe any theories about creation or the universe or our own reality. I haven't seen proof to anything supernatural or that can't be explained by normal science, but on the other hand I'm not going to say i disbelieve anything. I've been researching astral projection, perhaps once I master that, I'll travel to the supposed end of the universe, and let you all know if Walmart is there too.

[CheeseOnToast]

May i be the first to say... what a load of shit.

[dragonrider]

If your brain IS what is containing everything in the world. Then your mind CREATES the world. But understanding this means that somehow all consciousness within every human and every THING is connected somehow to be interactive. Our brain is not existant individual from the universe. It is the universe, IT is what puts IT here. One can not exist without the other. We create this environment BY EXISTING, and this environment created us. And somehow, every being is interactive in this web of consciousness. Its like a hole that if you enter you are timeless, you never go through the other side because you are running in place (timewise)

I don't think your brain creates the world --- your brain creates your world. I think the external world exists objectively, whether your brain perceives it or not. And then you have your own internal subjective world, which is the one you are talking about, and it is an imperfect internal model of the external objective world, constructed in your mind from the input from your senses.

This idea is related to the question, "If a tree falls in the woods, and there is no one there to hear it, does it make a sound?" I think the tree and the forest and the noise are all physical phenomena that exist even if there is no one there to percieve them.

If we are connected, it is through the external physical objective world. It's only when we communicate that we are connected in our internal subjective worlds. You exist and I exist separately in the objective world, even if we know nothing about eachother. But when you communicate with me, then you exist in my internal world too. And now I exist in your internal world.

[dragonrider]

May i be the first to say... what a load of shit.

Dude, I need you to get out of my internal subjective world RIGHT NOW!

[Acouwaila]

its hard to describe zen through language. Because language itself is a part of it. Everything is a part of it...nothing is seperate...this is happening...that dude that says its all a lload of bullshit is just some mind who created his BELIEF. Your opinion dont mean shit and my opinion dont mean shit. I am not speaking from experience, im not speaking from opinion. Im stating what is. We are what we are and we are where we are.

if i had read this shit when i was 16 i would have called it bullshit too...but you cant deny whats happening. at 16 i was still living for the next thrill....i still am...its a hard habbit to break...but im working at appreciating every moment and every thing that is here, now.

[melodious fellow]

I hope Stinky comments on this.... hahaha

Actually I would like to hear all the mods... um... opinions...;) on this thread :hippy:

[r0k]

I don't believe any theories about creation or the universe or our own reality. I haven't seen proof to anything supernatural or that can't be explained by normal science, but on the other hand I'm not going to say i disbelieve anything. I've been researching astral projection, perhaps once I master that, I'll travel to the supposed end of the universe, and let you all know if Walmart is there too.

Actually, it's a restaurant :thumbsup:

[McLeodGanja]

thanks Mcleodganja. Im gonna check those out when I get back from classes today, ill let you know what i think

These ideas now are coming from my small studies ive had in zen so far. Even though I dont know the history behind zen, i think intelectually i can somewhat comprehend what it is about. Seeing things for how they are at this moment in time.

YW Acouwalia, I hope you find those texts as much a fountain of light that I did. FYI The Web of Life is basically an extension of the chapter on holistic health that was part of the also fantastic book The Turning Point. If you got the time read The Tao of Physics first and then those those two, I'm sure you'll find them interesting. I discovered them at a time when I was just starting to open my mind to spiritual ideas and values. Sadly my 4 years as a physics undergraduate failed to inspire me as much as The Tao of Physics did 7 years after I graduated and had spent 7 mediocre years in R&D.

p.s I also found that Chaos by James Gleick helped when I was reading The Web of Life.

I hope you find the answer you are looking for. Peace and love:hippy:

[McLeodGanja]

its hard to describe zen through language. Because language itself is a part of it.

That is what the chapter I gave up on in Bohm's book was talking about, before getting into the heavy shit about how quantum mechanics shows that the entire universe is a hologram that is enfolded into a single conscious singularity-the subjective nature of language. And while I can understand this concept, I found it difficult to follow his train of logic. I suspect that maybe he was attempting to talk in "zen koans", I'm partly guilty of that myself from time to time.

I gave up on Douglas Hofstaders Godel, Escher, Bach for similar reasons.

Capra on the other hand, he is isn't the most eloquent or poetic writer, but he does a good job of explaining himself to the layman.

Sometimes it is just better to try and find your own answers. I often find that other peoples knowledges can become a barrier to my own.

[The Gnome]

Taking Einstein's General Theory of Relativity into account, there can exist any number of "truths" in the universe that contradict each other in seemingly impossible ways. It just depends on the viewer, the viewer's position, his velocity, his bias, what he had for lunch, and everything else.


This theory has been proven by simple experimentation and is also easily grasped by anyone with a comprehension level equal to that needed for a high school education.

[40oz]

Taking Einstein's General Theory of Relativity into account, there can exist any number of "truths" in the universe that contradict each other in seemingly impossible ways. It just depends on the viewer, the viewer's position, his velocity, his bias, what he had for lunch, and everything else.


This theory has been proven by simple experimentation and is also easily grasped by anyone with a comprehension level equal to that needed for a high school education.


This is true. Since what you perceieve as reality is everything that your brain has been imprinted and conditioned to do, all that makes sense and is real is simply what your brain decides is correct. When Einstien published his Special Relativity theory, a majority of physicists rejected it. Einstien himself refused to accept anything in quantum theory.

This is because what you perceive to be reality is actually just your brain receiving signals from external stimuli (which is the objective world) and rearranging the signals (like filling in the colors on a paint by numbers) so that it makes sense to you and fits how your mind is imprinted to view this world.

Think of the brain as a computer. The actual brain is the hardware. That is the actual physical part of the computer, the cpu, hard drives, floppy drives, etc.. Your mind, which is the intangible essence of you (the I, your ID) is software. Software are programs that run on a computer. Hardware can be destroyed, because it is a physical (i.e. you can smash your computer and it will be broken and thrown away) but software can't be destroyed. (i.e. programs you added to the computer you smashed are not broken, they still exist somewhere out their, either on a CD, written in a book, or in someone else's head) The point is that the computer hardware itself does nothing, but when you add the software, the computer can run those programs, and that is what appears on the screen.

Think of the external world as software, every book, every piece of art, every person, every society, every event, everything, they are all programs. These programs are imprinted, conditioned, and learned into your brain like how computer programs are installed on a computer. Your personal reality depends on the programs your brain is running on. Nobody's brain is imprinted (or programed) the same so that makes every individual unique.

At the moment there is no way to prove any kind of an objective truth so until then all reality and truth is only what is real and truthful to you.

[40oz]

i wanted to add this to my previous post but too much time passes:


For example; if you truly believe a certain god exists and he loves you, your mind will eventually prove to you that this god does exist and he does care for you. Nobody will be able to convince you otherwise (think of any religious person). If you believe that Jews are corrupt money hoarding bankers that are hurting your country, your brain will then prove this to you because that is how you are programed to think (maybe due to clever brainwashing campaigns or your own loathing of the jews) . Then it will make much more sense why a whole country of people can sit around and let genocide occur right under their noses.

[denial102]

May i be the first to say... what a load of shit.

may I be one of many to say, how do you know? :)

[yokinazu]

For example; if you truly believe a certain god exists and he loves you, your mind will eventually prove to you that this god does exist and he does care for you. Nobody will be able to convince you otherwise (think of any religious person). If you believe that Jews are corrupt money hoarding bankers that are hurting your country, your brain will then prove this to you because that is how you are programed to think (maybe due to clever brainwashing campaigns or your own loathing of the jews) . Then it will make much more sense why a whole country of people can sit around and let genocide occur right under their noses.


man i been trryin to convince people of that for along time. i wrote a paper in school about how man is god and we are the creator. basicaly it said for a god o exist there must be beleif and if noone believes then we have efectivaly killed god. i like to argue with he jehovas witness that come to my door that i am more powerful than god.

[smokerofweed420]

Yeah the idea of the holographic universe is pretty cool in my opinion. And IMO it basically explains the existance of a seperate "mental" dimension. We cannot locate the exact points in our brains where specific memories are stored. Basically with holographic theory it explains that our "minds" really aren't here in the physical sense. They exist somewhere we cannot locate but we are connected to.

Its hard to wrap your mind around it and I know I don't explain it well, but once you wrap your mind around it you feel like you know everything?

[jimmy8778]

this thread falls somewhere between the realities of sense, and nonsense, and it definitely exists, unless i dont exist, in which case, do you exist if i talk to you then, tell me, so i will exist no matter what then, because you cant reply to nothing, so if you do, then im not nothing, but you could be.

[The Gnome]

I can only answer by repeating words scrawled over a wash basin in Midland City, Ohio:

"To be is to do"--Socrates.

"To do is to be"--Jean-Paul Sarte.

"Do be do be do"--Frank Sinatra.

[dragonrider]

this thread falls somewhere between the realities of sense, and nonsense, and it definitely exists, unless i dont exist, in which case, do you exist if i talk to you then, tell me, so i will exist no matter what then, because you cant reply to nothing, so if you do, then im not nothing, but you could be.

This thread exist only in my mind --- I am either, bored, stoned, or crazy. Maybe all three.

[jimmy8778]

"Do be do be do"--Frank Sinatra.

frank sinatra told us to smoke weed, he said do be do be do be do, and if you smash it it says, doobie doobie doobie, he wants us to smoke joints, bowls, whatever we can.

and if you can belive this, i wasnt high before, but now i am.

[The Gnome]

Jimmy you are so right:thumbsup:
So is Frank:rastasmoke:

[dragonrider]

It's "Doobie Doobie do?" I always thought it was "Boobie Boobie Boob." I'm OK either way, actually. In fact, I'll take one of each, please!



I think we've effectively derailed this philosophical discussion now...

[McLeodGanja]

Einstien himself refused to accept anything in quantum theory.


Interesting to note also that Einstein developed the wave-particle duality theory, and was awarded the Nobel prize for discovering the photoelectric effect.



Think of the brain as a computer.


This model can't be farther from the reality of what the mind is, it is an outdated paradigm.

[BagFullofKush]

True.I can understand what your saying.

[40oz]

This model can't be farther from the reality of what the mind is, it is an outdated paradigm.

Well can you enlighten me with a better comparison?

[beachguy in thongs]

I find no comparison to the human brain. This guy was shot in the face, at close range, blowing out half of his brain, and, he's still alive.

[40oz]

I find no comparison to the human brain. This guy was shot in the face, at close range, blowing out half of his brain, and, he's still alive.

Well remeber that your brain and your mind are different things. Your brain is physical and can be blown to pieces, your mind can't be touched. Your mind is you, its what makes you human.

This is why I want to hear McLeodGanja's comparison because he said my comparison of the brain being like a computer is wrong because the mind is nothing like that.

[denial102]

frank sinatra told us to smoke weed, he said do be do be do be do, and if you smash it it says, doobie doobie doobie, he wants us to smoke joints, bowls, whatever we can.

and if you can belive this, i wasnt high before, but now i am.

actually it says doobie doobie doobie DO. :D Yeah I know i'm nit picking bah! :D

Frank Sinatra Rocks

[lagstronaut]

Hoooolllllyyy shiiittt! Wow, okay I'm duped. I'm offically a believer

[McLeodGanja]

This is why I want to hear McLeodGanja's comparison because he said my comparison of the brain being like a computer is wrong because the mind is nothing like that.

Here I dug this up for you, it might help explain what I mean.

Cornell News: New mind model (http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/June05/new.mind.model.ssl.html)

""For decades, the cognitive and neural sciences have treated mental processes as though they involved passing discrete packets of information in a strictly feed-forward fashion from one cognitive module to the next or in a string of individuated binary symbols -- like a digital computer," said Spivey. "More recently, however, a growing number of studies, such as ours, support dynamical-systems approaches to the mind. In this model, perception and cognition are mathematically described as a continuous trajectory through a high-dimensional mental space; the neural activation patterns flow back and forth to produce nonlinear, self-organized, emergent properties -- like a biological organism.""

Contemporary theories of consciousness and life, such as this, begin from a holistic approach, as opposed to fragmentary ones which have consistently given rise to inadequate models for explaining biological organisms.

Hope this helps.

[McLeodGanja]

I wikipedia'd "holistic science" and found this rather comprehensive description. Hope this helps.

Holism in science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holism_in_science)

"Holism in science, or Holistic science, is an approach to research that emphasizes the study of complex systems. This practice is in contrast to a purely analytic tradition (sometimes called reductionism) which purports to understand systems by dividing them into their smallest possible or discernible elements and understanding their elemental properties alone. The holism/reductionism dichotomy is often evident in conflicting interpretations of experimental findings and in setting priorities for future research."

"Cognitive science
The field of cognitive science, or the study of mind and intelligence has some examples for holistic approaches. These include Unified Theory of Cognition (Allen Newell, e.g. Soar, ACT-R as models) and many others, many of which rely on the concept of emergence, i.e. the interplay of many entities make up a functioning whole. Another example is psychological nativism, the study of the innate structure of the mind. Non-holistic functionalist approaches within cognitive science include e.g. the modularity of mind paradigm.
Cognitive science need not concern only human cognition. Biologist Marc Bekoff has done holistic, interdisciplinary scientific research in animal cognition and has published a book about it (see below)."