Mutant 9 Point leaves, and nute PH probs.

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Further down on the pics u will see 6, 7, 8, even 9 point mj leaves is this a mutation? i've never heard of this........

Hello All! Started this grow with a wide varity of seeds: AI (Aurora Indica) NLXS (northern lights x Shiva) (HXsk Hwn x skunk) Bubblegum and Sweet skunk. In addition I have sensi #5 clones and some purp.


Indoor, Soil, (Sunshine mix soil) #2 & #4. ive added nothing to the soil. Soil PH unknown. Tap water source wich comes out a around 9. Plants are 6 weeks old. Clones around 4.5 weeks.

The Ferts/nutes I have used consist of:

Super thrive 1-1-1
Earth juice grow
Silica blast
tiger bloom 2-8-4
Ego grow part 1 5-0-3
organa guano 0-2-0
Thrive alive red
BC bloom 1-4-7

I've feed the plants 3 or 4 times about 5 days apart....(I think)

All plants are under 2 400 watt hid MH about 2 feet away from canopy

temps 70-75 light is 24/0

Ventilation consists of 2 fans one oscillating a few feet from the plants and one stationary exausting out of the grow room.

Now up until recently I had a faulty ph meter. Bought a new Hanna digital and ive got the PH under control now. But tap water is coming out @ 9.+ So who knows what i've been doing the last 6 weeks. Now they get steady 6.4-6.7

I've recently flushed thats why the soil looks a little low. Yesterday i foliar feed 1/2 nutes using: Mineral matrix, Along with a wetting agent.

Mineral Matrix:

soluble potash (k20) 1.0%
Maghnesuim (Mg) 0.5%
Sulfur (S) combined 3.0%
Boron (B) 0.02%
Copper (Cu) 0.05%
0.05% WAter soluble copper
Iron (Fe) 2.0%
Manganese (Mn) 2.0%
2.0% Water Soluble Manganese
Molybdenum (M0) 0.0005%
Zinc (Zn) #.0%
3.0% WAter Soluble Zinc

So they were flushed and feed 1/2 nutes og EArth juice grow, Silica blast,Tiger bloom,Ego #1,bc bloom 3 days ago. Yesterday I foliar feed.

I gave them the mineral matrix cause i think they are missing some micro nutrient.

The seedlings pics are numbered by plant (right) the sensi 5 clones aren't (left)

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

This is plant #1

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Heres the Second one.

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Heres #3

[rhizome]

Do a soil run-off pH test- see what ya get.

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Heres #4 Thanks to anyone taking any intrest helping.

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

rhizome: If i water tonite i will do. Heres #5.

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

plant #6

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

plant 7 pics

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

number 8 plant

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

heres plant #9

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Number 10

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

plant #11

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

plant #12

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Well these 2 just ended up this way and i didnt have the heart to break them up.....

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Sensi #5 clones

[snooby]

Looks like a ph issue to me

[Dreadscale]

Hey :thumbsup:

I can't begin to say what your plant problem is but 9 points isn't unheard of. I have raised plants " outdoors, years ago "
that had 11 points per leaf. The points reduced as the plant matured. I don't believe it's a mutation. :hippy:

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

11 holy shit! damn. What is tripping me out is that 1 on each strain so far is doing this....What causes this?

[Weedhound]

I third the ph.

[sarah louise]

11 holy shit! damn. What is tripping me out is that 1 on each strain so far is doing this....What causes this?

Genetics, large fan leaves on the sativa I grow usually have 11 fingers. Sometimes only 9 fingers, but usually 11.

[Cpt. Zissou]

Mag def? due to ph perhaps? Nice pix btw gl!

[Chong Version 2.0]

Yeah, all my plants in my last grow had 11 fingers on their leaves. Otherwise your plants are looking totally salvageable and you should check your ph.

[stinkyattic]

Max# I've seen is 13 points.
Go check your pH. I'll bet it's significantly out of range. You've got micronutrient uptake problems. Plus a few of those plants will want new, larger homes soon.
I just gave someone instructions for that, and his soil pH situation is similar to what yours seems to be, but not as extreme:
http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/146668-fan-tips-drooping-yellow.html#post1781471

[Rusty Trichome]

Possible zinc-iorn defeciencies?
Possible Magnesium def?
Possible over-fert?
Just a few guesses.
Here's a link to common nute problems...
Marijuana Plant Abuse (http://www.greenmanspage.com/guides/plant_abuse.html)
HTH

[Dreadscale]

Rusty Trichome great link. :postgood:

I found the same guide posted on another forum in FAQs.
They didn't even mention the info was borrowed from Greenman.
Not just borrowed copied exactly, photos and all. Just changed background to call it theirs.

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Thx Stinky ok i flushed 1 plant last nite with tap water that came out around 9 and the run off came out 7.0. Today I flushed a plant with 7.0 water and the run off was around 6.8....When i started these plants they were in some crappy potting soil, But i recently changed to Sunshine mix wich has dolomite lime wich i think wont allow the ph to go over 7.0 is that correct? So If my ph drops a few points going through the soil should i just start watering and feeding with around a 6.7? So the run off will be around 6.5?

Thx for all the replys Rusty, Chong, Zissou, Weedhound, Sarah, Dread.

[Cpt. Zissou]

6.5 sounds about right

[stinkyattic]

Thx Stinky ok i flushed 1 plant last nite with tap water that came out around 9 and the run off came out 7.0. Today I flushed a plant with 7.0 water and the run off was around 6.8....When i started these plants they were in some crappy potting soil, But i recently changed to Sunshine mix wich has dolomite lime wich i think wont allow the ph to go over 7.0 is that correct? So If my ph drops a few points going through the soil should i just start watering and feeding with around a 6.7? So the run off will be around 6.5?.
Okay it sounds like you've brought your soil up to about 6.5. Now just keep on top of watering with fert solution that is 6.7-7 and monitoring the runoff to ensure it stays below 6.9.
The lime is actually a ph up type buffer; calcium carbonate neutralizes acid and is meant to keep pH from dropping too low.

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Ok didnt water for 3 days and tried a few things....

saturday @ 10pm i gave plant #4 around a liter of 6.7 water and got a run off of 7.1.........

did the same thing to plant #10 and got the same thing.


after conversing with friends etc...i decided to drop ph down more to around 6.0 for plant #8 7.2 run off!!! wtf???

plant # i gave 5.4 ph water to and still came out 7.2


Im using sunshine mix #2

Sun Gro Horticulture | Products | | Mix # 4 Aggregate / LA 4 (http://sungro.com/products_displayProProduct.php?product_id=8&brand_id=1)

"on the bag it says its ph balanced..."

sunshine mix i guess isnt actually soil so a soiless medium does this matter? WTF should i do? i have like four bags of black gold should i start using 25% bg and 75% sunshine mix?

or is the run off ok? I just cant understand how the runoff can be so high now matter how acidic I make it....

[Cpt. Zissou]

7.2 wow....I think ur ok as long as u stay under 7.0.

[Cpt. Zissou]

Actually just read someplace u can use coffe grounds to lower the ph of your soil...

[stinkyattic]

7.2 wow....I think ur ok as long as u stay under 7.0.

Actually just read someplace u can use coffe grounds to lower the ph of your soil...

That's all well and good but this information is shaky at best.
Coffee grounds are appropriate amendments for a compost heap but have little to no place in an indoor grow. Proper pH up/down is more predictable and won't interfere with your other nutrients.

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Thx for the replys.....


Stinky I am using PH down ive lowered it as low as 5.4 and it still comes out over 7....When ive transplanted recently with fresh sunshine mix that hasnt been flushed first run off will end up under 7 but any time after the run off is over 7. What can i do? What ph should i use to water then? Really low or what?

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

ok this is plant #8 wich i gave a 1.5 liters of ph 6.0 on saturday and the run off came out at 7.2 im guessing it didnt like that at all cause this is what it currently looks like:

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

some more of #8

[stinkyattic]

I'm pretty much stumped. All I can do is say I SUSPECT that some of whatever was causing your tap water to be up around 9 is still in your soil.
I would not take the nute solution much below 5.0 (I believe sunshine mix is technically soilless; if it were a soil I'd say 5.5) even if your soil IS showing high pH.
You need to lose that water source entirely. If it means going to distilled or RO with calmag, or getting jugs of tap water from a friend in another town; hell, even RAIN water that you've adjusted the pH on would probably be better, lol!!! (I'm kidding about the rain water... but only partially)
There's a product I've used to flush stubborn soils and save plants; it's called 'soil syrup' and is nothing but Humic acid from Leonardite. It buffers in the proper range for cannabis. I'd use a flush solution of purified water with the soil syrup added at 1/10-1/8 the strength recommended on the bottle.
This is a really unusual situation. You may notice reading around here that the vast majority of pH problems in soil and soilless grows are actually that the soil is too LOW.
I don't know what else to tell ya and I'm kind of flailing here, lol... good luck... :(

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

ok heres plant #3 I have no notes on it so it hasnt been flushed just watered.

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

plant #1

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

plant #2

note: was pruned recently. foliage is somwhat dry. But not Crisp almost waxy...


Well those are the Bad ones The rest seem alright. I have noticed the leaves on most are either horizontal or arched up at 90 degrees but im only watering when the pots are light or every other day or 3 days.

Could this be from fighting for light? they are more or less a mini SOG something like 16 plants under a 400 MH. they are packed tight.

But if this is still the ph micro nute lockout how do i fix this? ive watered with everything for ph 9.5 to 5.4 and the run off is over 7.0....

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

I'm pretty much stumped. All I can do is say I SUSPECT that some of whatever was causing your tap water to be up around 9 is still in your soil.
I would not take the nute solution much below 5.0 (I believe sunshine mix is technically soilless; if it were a soil I'd say 5.5) even if your soil IS showing high pH.
You need to lose that water source entirely. If it means going to distilled or RO with calmag, or getting jugs of tap water from a friend in another town; hell, even RAIN water that you've adjusted the pH on would probably be better, lol!!! (I'm kidding about the rain water... but only partially)
There's a product I've used to flush stubborn soils and save plants; it's called 'soil syrup' and is nothing but Humic acid from Leonardite. It buffers in the proper range for cannabis. I'd use a flush solution of purified water with the soil syrup added at 1/10-1/8 the strength recommended on the bottle.
This is a really unusual situation. You may notice reading around here that the vast majority of pH problems in soil and soilless grows are actually that the soil is too LOW.


Well it fucking Rains here 9 Months out of the year...LOL what about just like filtered water? like those brita things that use carbon? I would love to go RO but i need a carbon filter bad and i would hate to have to use the money for that to get a RO system.

I've thought about maybe getting a garbage can and filling it and letting it sit...Would that help? Could it be i maybe mite not be letting my water sit around long enough? Alot of times i pull it out of the tap and then adjust within 5 minutes.....BUT my roomate has mentioned that hes scene the PH actually go up after sitting around at times....

Faulty Meter? Fuck i just bought it and calibrated it...It's a Hanna and it wasnt cheap and when calibrating with solution i didnt even have to adjust it was already on point....

What to do what to do.....On the bright side though alot of the plants look fine im lost.

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

bleh ima n00b! My meter is fuct, broke, or just off. After recab i get a tap water @ 7.9 I'm taking it back today!

Water i had set out overnite was 7.6-7.5

PH down to 7.0 and flushed #8 run ofrf was 5.8.....Im guessing cause she got alotta acidic water when i was giving wrong ph to her...

4.5 hours later gave her tap @ 7.9 and got run off @ 6.0....


3.5 hours later run off was @ 6.3...

My guess is my hanna meter is broke or just the batteries are dieing...So I will take it back

In about 5 days my babies are about 2 months old since planting...safe to Clone off?

All are showing signs of being female except 1 wich i cant believe....16 out of 17 with one unknown...Truly cant see it but they are showing now.

[stinkyattic]

Hanna meters are CRAP. Pure unadulterated useless piece of shit type CRAP.

Wait to clone until they have had a stress free existence for a little while and have nice vigorous new growth.

[Bedtimeforbonzo]

Ok.Will do. Yeah im begining to agree with u about the hanna meters,...When I went to my grow shop it was this hanna 70 bucks or another kind wich was like 300...But when i started this a fellow grower said get the best equipement always, And I guess thats what i should have done.
Any suggestions on wich meter would be a good investment?

[stinkyattic]

You're in soil. The $7 bottle of liquid indicator is just fine for your purposes. The GH pH kit that includes a bottle of indicator plus pH up and pH down is a good bang for your buck.
Those fancy meters are great for a larger operation or a hydro one but you should not need to shell out for that at this point.