Opie, I Need A Little Help

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

i figured id ask you because your one of the few who give me good, accurate answers, but anyway its about my rainforest 66, i got my seeds today and began to germ then and i setup the system but its a little different than im use to and, it has CocoTek liners in the net basket then my hydrotron in the cocotek liners, and the spray does not penetrate the cocotek liners and my hydrotron are dry(very dry), now ive only had it powered on for about 12hours but it seems almost like the liners are water resisent:wtf:.

and its a little prob because my plants will be germed very soon, any ideas?

oh and sorry for the story just wanted to include the details

Thanks:)

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

took a couple pics, to better explain

[Opie Yutts]

I have not used them, but I know the roots are supposed to grow through the liner without a problem. It seems weird that water wouldn't penetrate them. Are you supposed to let them sit in water for a few hours before using them or something? Well your roots have got to get moisture, so until you can get some better help on this, I would be sure to poke several holes in each liner to make sure the water is going to soak the hydroton. I'd poke em especially where spray hits the liner most often.

Another thing you could do is lay your roots in some capillary matting, cut a slit in the bottom of the net pot and liner, and feed the matting through so that it gets wet. The water will seep up to the roots. Or, I don't suppose with that system you could flood the net pots occasionally? Until your roots penetrate the liner, you may just have to hand water twice daily or something. Once roots are through, no problems.

Sorry I can't help better. I'll think about it some more.

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

Well, I cant understand how it doesnt include instructions, but I tryed to fill the cocoa liners with water and it drips slowly out the bottom but the rocks slowly start to dry:wtf:. I was going to cut some holes but I was thinking... It probably has the liners, so no particals get into the revisor and clog the sprayer. So cutting holes would defeat the purpus of the liners (just a thought maby wrong).
capillary matting seem like a good possability as does temporally watering daily.

I can actually flood to a certin point, It has a flush valve on the side of the system to empty it, so i could just clog it with somthing and flood it.

I dont understand how they expect this to work, I realize once the roots break out of the net-pots it will hopfully work great but until then its an aggreviation (hopfully avoidable)

I very much appreciate all your input, Thanks :thumbsup:

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

oh, I had 1 other question, do these aeroponic systems have to run 24/7?

If i remember right i think eather you, stinky, or weedhound was talking about a friend of theirs who lost power for like 2 days and lost their whole crop, but i skimmed like the last 50 threads of me with you stinky and weed in it and cant find it.

So if any of you remember and can confirm that (think it might have been weedhound but not 100%). Thanks

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

now that im thinkin about it, it might have been stinky. but if i had anything close to a decent memory i wouldnt have to ask. BTW where is stinky? i know i havent been givin the board a lot of attention lately but i feel like i havent seen her post anything in a long time.

Well i gotta go to sleep, so i wake up when there still a little daylight

[scagster]

I've used coco liners and the nutrient solution goes through it, just takes a little bit. When it's saturated with moisture the liquids move through it easier. i guess if you don't like it, you can poke some holes with an awl or something. I find I have to drill the shit out of my pots I use hydroton in otherwise they somehow fill every hole and my pots overflow.

Never run an aero myself, but it seems like it would need to be on constantly to maintain the moisture and humidity levels on the roots? Just me theorizing.

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

yea i agree, just thinkin it would suck and the lights went out or somthing and screwed the crop (dont think that would ever happen, happen like once 6(maby 4/5/6/7 agian bad memory) years ago when the whole east coast went out but never know)

im going to try soaking them now since i cant sleep for shit

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

i summerged them in water for a little wile then filled them back with hydrotron and put them back in the system, (in the mean time i was watching true life i have ocd and this girl had to touch the top of every door she entered to please god so her mother would live longer:wtf: some weird shit) but i should give it some hours to let the spray try to absorb (but it didnt seem to absorb any water) but im staggering on and off topic and im gunna actually go to sleep now

[PharmaCan]

Jimmy - if you are using coco anything you need to figure out how to keep it wet. Coco dries fast and needs to be moistened regularly. Why do you even have the coco cups? It seems like they defeat the purpose of the bubbler. They are a barrier between the roots and bubbles. I looked at the rainforest 66 on-line and I didn't see coco-cups mentioned anywhere. You should maybe think of ditching the coco cups and just use hydrotron in a net pot. Isn't that the most common way?

PC :smokin:

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

Pham i think there to stop particals from getting into the sprayer look: (its the 3 one down) i thought it was kinda pointless too but i think they gotta give them to you for a reason

GENERAL HYDROPONICS (http://www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/rainforest.html)


also i let them get sprayed for the last 8 hours and no luck the rocks seem to be drying, i can only think when i have a hps on it will dry 1 a split second

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

This system includes:
â?¢ 17-Gallon Reservoir with Lid
â?¢ Six 6" Lid inserts
� Vortex® Sprayer
â?¢ 6â?� Plastic Cups
â?¢ CocoTek Liners
â?¢ CocoTek Caps
â?¢ 3-Part Flora Kit

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

this thing was kinda expensive to have problems like this

[Opie Yutts]

I'm really sorry you are having trouble like this, but regardless of what the seller told you, you're doing things weird and breaking new ground. I didn't see clay pellets in the list of what's included. Are you sure you are supposed to be using them with the liners? It just doesn't make sense to me, but then again I don't know a whole lot about the liners. That's why I asked the guy in the hydro store today about your situation. I was directed to him as the knowledgeable one in the store, and he said that those liners are not designed for spraying systems. You need to feed from above in some manner, probably by a drip system, or have a wick extending out the bottom of the pot, as I mentioned above. Yes, I'm quite proud of that since it was just off the top of my head. Either that or toss the liners. That would be my vote. Spraying is much better IMHO. The guy said you can do something similar to what you are trying, but you are supposed to use the cloth liners designed somewhat for your situation. They have good capillary action and water would get to the clay pellets. They're like $4 for a 6" net pot and not reusable. I'm pretty sure you don't need anything and should just consider spraying the hydroton.

Vortex® Sprayer lifts and oxygenates the nutrient solution, and then gently distributes it over cuttingâ??s bases or root systems.

I'm afraid it aint going to get to the root systems the way you are going about it.

You say it is to keep particles out of the solution. I'm pretty sure this is wrong. That's why they make filters. Or else the liners are for a soil situation and help keep soil particles in the pot. Seems like it would put Coco particles in the solution if anything. Or perhaps it is meant to hold coco fiber growing medium, maybe mixed with vermiculite or something. I'm fairly certain they were not meant to be used as filters, but perhaps you should run them through a couple search engines and see what you can learn. I have a feeling that what happened here is someone wanted to sell you a system that uses the "hot new thing", without really knowing how the thing is supposed to be used or what it was designed for.

Now having said all that. I very well could be wrong since I have not researched Coco liners, or even Coco very much. Hope we helped. Good luck.

[Opie Yutts]

You should maybe think of ditching the coco cups and just use hydrotron in a net pot. Isn't that the most common way?

PC :smokin:

Yes.

Word.

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

I'm really sorry you are having trouble like this, but regardless of what the seller told you, you're doing things weird and breaking new ground. I didn't see clay pellets in the list of what's included. Are you sure you are supposed to be using them with the liners? It just doesn't make sense to me, but then again I don't know a whole lot about the liners. That's why I asked the guy in the hydro store today about your situation. I was directed to him as the knowledgeable one in the store, and he said that those liners are not designed for spraying systems. You need to feed from above in some manner, probably by a drip system, or have a wick extending out the bottom of the pot, as I mentioned above. Yes, I'm quite proud of that since it was just off the top of my head. Either that or toss the liners. That would be my vote. Spraying is much better IMHO. The guy said you can do something similar to what you are trying, but you are supposed to use the cloth liners designed somewhat for your situation. They have good capillary action and water would get to the clay pellets. They're like $4 for a 6" net pot and not reusable. I'm pretty sure you don't need anything and should just consider spraying the hydroton.

Vortex® Sprayer lifts and oxygenates the nutrient solution, and then gently distributes it over cuttingâ??s bases or root systems.

I'm afraid it aint going to get to the root systems the way you are going about it.

You say it is to keep particles out of the solution. I'm pretty sure this is wrong. That's why they make filters. Or else the liners are for a soil situation and help keep soil particles in the pot. Seems like it would put Coco particles in the solution if anything. Or perhaps it is meant to hold coco fiber growing medium, maybe mixed with vermiculite or something. I'm fairly certain they were not meant to be used as filters, but perhaps you should run them through a couple search engines and see what you can learn. I have a feeling that what happened here is someone wanted to sell you a system that uses the "hot new thing", without really knowing how the thing is supposed to be used or what it was designed for.

Now having said all that. I very well could be wrong since I have not researched Coco liners, or even Coco very much. Hope we helped. Good luck.

i just typed everything and acclidently hit the back button and lost it so.......

it deff supposto use clay pellets and cocoa liners because it came wit a 10lb bag of hydrotron and with the cocoa tek, and its was sealed in a general hydroponices box sealed with GH tamper tape saying dont accept if seal broken, also the vortex sprayer has no filter at all, (am i suppost to buy one? no where to really put it)

hhaa ""Yes, I'm quite proud of that since it was just off the top of my head"" yes it was a good idea

oh did your hydro guy hear of this thing before? i called a bunch of hydro stores who have not the slightest clue what the hell it was..
im going to order some cloth liners today and hope that fixes my problem,

thanks very much for your time

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

I ACTUALY FOUND INSTRUCTIONS (FEEL PROUD AND SLIGHTLY STUPID FOR NOT LOOKING ON GH.COM FOR THEM EARLIER)

http://www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/instructions/RainForest66_318_236.pdf

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

well about these cocoa lines apparently there made with natural rubber to help contain moisture?

from what i can tell im doing everything correct, but im still ordering the cloth liners

[stinkyattic]

You don't need liners. Just use the plastic net pots.
The liners are one more thing to clog and host bacteria and fungus and algae.
As long as the hydroton doesn't fall out, and it shouldn't as they were designed to be used together, the liners are simply one mroe item that's GREAT for parting growers and their money.
The liners are necessary with a finer particle like perlite or coco coir, which WILL fall through and clog up your delivery systems.

[PharmaCan]

Jimmy - Try to start two seeds - one in a net pot with just hydrotron, the other with a coco cup and hydroton. I think you'll find that you are fine with just the hydrotron.

PC :smokin:

[stinkyattic]

You can't start seeds just in hydroton. Start them in a rapidrooter and then transplant to hydroton.

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

well, one thing i know (at least with my last system) hydrotron never fails to find it way out of the net, every time i would pop the lid on my last system there were hydrotron floating/sunk everywhere, but im afraid that im going to get rid of these liners, and just hope no hydrotron clogs the sprayer, if it does and burns it out or something, that all my eq is going on ebay and im saying bye (last grow even know i didnt get any bud was fairly therapeutic this is just causing 100X more aggravation) maby i just grab some of those cloth liners

[stinkyattic]

There should be a filter over the intake of your res pump. Pumps come with a sponge filter on the inside that needs to be removed and cleaned periodically, and you can place a pump bag over the entire thing to add a second line of defense. It's a cloth sack that the WHOLE pump slips right into.

[PharmaCan]

You can't start seeds just in hydroton. Start them in a rapidrooter and then transplant to hydroton.

LOL - Bad choice of words on my part perhaps, but I think the intent is clear. :D

PC :smokin:

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

hha i knew what you ment

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

stinky its a little different that wat your thinking(or at least the way i think your thinking) (it prity weird) (but ill show you pic)

there is no filter at all, it just takes in in thought the hole on the bottom wile the whole sheft spins and sprays the water out theres deff no filter..

yo stinky u the one saying about your friend who lost whole crop to the aeroponics? when lights went out?

+ THERE IS NO PUMP OR TUBES OR ANYTHING JUST THAT THING

[stinkyattic]

Yeah, that was my buddy who lost a crop to a power failure.
There has to be a pump in there somewhere, inside that thing you took the pic of. What's the power source? The only way I can think of to do a passive hydro/aero, no pump at all, is with a gravity feed.

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

no, it actualy VERY ODD, there is not pump (from what i can tell) it has a motor that spins the shaft which has like threads in it wich force the water through the sprayer? maby....

FROM WHAT IM TO UNDER STAND THROUGH READING IT CREATES A WATER TORNADO (VORTEX <- ITS CALLED THE VORTEX SPRAYER) INSIDE THE SHAFT........ dosent make sence to me


LOOK:

The Vortex Sprayer is a revolutionary device. The spinning shaft of the Vortex Sprayer creates a powerful vortex (a water twister) which stirs and lifts nutrients while oxygenating the reservoir.

It gently and evenly distributes oxygen rich nutrient solution to cuttings and root systems. This powerful system enables faster, more consistent propagation results, plus faster growth rates and higher crop yields.

The Vortex Sprayer provides plants with an oxygen super-charge!


BUT AS YOU CAN SEE THE MOTOR ONLY HAS A METAL SPINNING ROT ATTACHED TO THE SHAFT

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

thats weird right, thats why i think the cocoateks are some kind of filter

[PharmaCan]

Jimmy, I buy bags of small sock filters to fit over my paint sprayer intake at Lowe's. You can probably fit a sock filter over your intake if you really want a filter.

PC :smokin:

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

do they make them fine knit?

[Opie Yutts]

You do not need a liner of any kind. I have never had a piece of hydroton fall out of a net pot. You might try bigger clay pellets (they make several sizes), or net pots with smaller holes.

You can start seeds in hydroton. You lay them on a nylon stocking and put a layer of clay pellets over the top. I've not tried it, but some people do it that way.

I've heard this argument before: You must have a pump in your system somewhere! I'm telling you there is no pump! Whether there is or not, water is took in an intake somewhere. There probably should be some kind of filter at the intake.

People would be wise to consider power failures where they live. Do you live some place that has at least one outage per year? Do you want to take the chance on loosing an entire crop? I usually have 6 or 8 failures per year because I live on the end of the line. Lot's of opportunities down the line for a tree to fall on the lines or something. It made sense to me to design or use a system that has at least some of the roots in water at all times. So I made a hybrid spray/DWC thing, and I have a way of changing the level of the solution for individual plants as the root mass changes sizes. People who live with constant power failures are not really candidates to grow using styles like fog feed or aeroponics, unless they understand that they are taking chances of loosing entire crops.

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

ive only lost electric once in the last few years (when the whole ease coast blacked out)

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

YP OPIE, FIXED THE PROBLEM, I BOILED ALL THE COCOATEK CUPS FOR A FEW HOURS AND WHEN IT WAS FINISHED THERE WAS A BUNCH OF LITTLE CLOUDY BALLS FLOATING (WAS THE RUBBER) AND NOW THERE NOT AS STURDY BUT THEY STILL HOLD TOGETHER AND THEY TAKE THE WATER NICLY ALL MY ROCKS ARE A LITTLE WET SO FAR BUT ONLY HAD THE SPRATER ON LIKE 20MINS SINCED BOILED, JUST THOUGHT ILD TELL YOU, BUT ON MY NEXT GORW OM GOING TO GET THOSE CLOTH LINERS INSTEAD OF THESE (WOULD HAVE GOT THEM THIS TIME BUT IM VERY LOW ON FUNDS AT THE MOLMENT)

THANKS FOR EVERYONES HELP!

[Opie Yutts]

You're welcome. I'm very glad you figured out a solution.