Some Recirculating DWC Action

[Racerx]

Figured Id post a couple recent pics here. More can be seen at http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/139195-racerx-back-again-recirc-dwc.html#post1773356 . 6 plant Recirculating DWC. Grapefruit strain. Beginning the 5th week of flowering. 1300ppm. Little burn. Dropping temps to mid 50s at night. 75-79 in the day. No CO2.

1 vertical 600, 1 vertical 750, 4 T5HO bulbs, and an aircooled 750 overhead. The overhead 750 was added a couple weeks ago to supplement.

[turtle420]

Wow nice... aproximately, what's the square feet of the 6 buckets?

[herbie the love bud]

Those are beautifully tight plants! What do you attribute it too? Nutes? Light?

[Racerx]

Not sure on the square footage. Ive been using recirculating DWC buckets for over a year now and this is my 5th grow with the system. I started originally with 18 plants, then 12, now down to 6. So far having only 6 plants and the vertical lighting has been fantastic. Its very little work (except tying up branches) and keeps everything nice and warm. The buds at the very bottom of the plants are just as big and juicy as the ones up top, so while there are half as many plants as last time, its like we are getting the same amount of canopy space. The advantage of less plants is more air flow, better equalized temps, no hot spots of humidity, less chance for pests, less chance for mildew.

Weve had absolutely no problems as far as pests or mold are concerned. I actually abandoned the Dehumidifier and I am very happy without it. The added heat created by the dehumidifier seemed to promote mildew rather then getting rid of it. I have found it more beneficial to have low night times with high humidity and high day temps with low humidity. This consistently has been giving me less problems with mildew or anything of that nature. Its also cheaper.

The plants are low and tight because there were never any large lights above them. The vertical lighting sat about equal with the middle of the plants, so growth was out rather then up. Later on we added the 750 digital HPS over the canopy to help stretch things out and to encourage growth beyond the ability of the vertically hung lights.

We expect to yield nearly as much as last time, but with half the buckets and 1000 less watts. The fact that its winter has helped since our water chiller isnt even use for half the day.

For nutrients I use only 3 part, varying levels and ratios. Were at 1300ppm right now, sort of an accident it got that high, not really changing it. I also use a little Big Bud and Hygrozhyme, although its really for peace of mind.

[MVP]

Quite a nice looking setup. What type of yield have you been able to achieve?

[smokenss]

how long do u veg 4? they look fuckn gr8 :thumbsup:



:smokin:

[Racerx]

about 6 weeks veg. its all personal, I am in no hurry so I dont mind losing a harvest in the year. I personally find the bud from a more mature and larger plant more potent, but thats personal opinion. I expect 3+ pounds of prime. They were grown under T5 HO for 3+ of those weeks so they could have been bigger but I saved a lot of money on the electricity bill. This is not my only grow. They are into the 6th week of budding. out of the 6 plants, 4 are just out of this freakin world and one of them will definitely yield a nice half ounce bud. More pics in the next few days.

[lmdesade]

Looks nice and clean.

[bbc]

Can you give us some info on the setup of your buckets ?
Res size pump size
line in and out size and Just some info on how you constructed (parts) you setup and why ? ? ?
Is the buckets on your floor ?
(same level as the res) ? ? ?
Do you have a drip on the top of your buckets ?
Thank`s

[Racerx]

Can you give us some info on the setup of your buckets ?
Res size pump size
line in and out size and Just some info on how you constructed (parts) you setup and why ? ? ?
Is the buckets on your floor ?
(same level as the res) ? ? ?
Do you have a drip on the top of your buckets ?
Thank`s

Sure thing. The buckets are 5 gallons. The reservoir is 40 gallons, but its only about 2/3 full. We use a gravity reservoir to constantly fill up the control reservoir. That is a 32 gallon trash can that sits above the reservoir. Depending on the number of plants you are doing, you can go through over 150 gallons of water a week of you have lots of trees. Can u believe that?!?!

The line in is 1/2" hose from a 350gph submerged pump in the reservoir, and each bucket has a 1/4" line going into the bucket an inch or 2 from the top. The water squirts in pretty hard, hitting the 6" net pot filled with hydroton. This splashes, makes mist, keeps the rootball wet, and recirculates the water. In each bucket there is an air stone. For 6 buckets, I use a 35 watt HD air pump, it pumps them like nuts! More bubbles the better! Airstone is optional, I find it much quieter then an open air line. The water returns from the bucket via 3/4" line, and there is a root filter on the inside of each bucket.

For this system, because it only uses 1 pump, gravity is the return pump and therefore the water level in the reservoir determines the water level in each bucket. I like this system a lot because it requires little input and work, and due to the amount of water and constant recirculating, pH stays very steady.

I never replace my water. I ALSO DO NOT USE RO WATER!!!! Its a complete waste and harmful to the environment. Obviously some people must use it if they have 400ppm and 8ph out the tap, but I am blessed with good water that comes out at 7ph and 220ppm. Id rather not spend money on Calmag either, as my tap water has plenty. I only replace my water to flush, which I do for the last week with straight water, low 6's pH.

Normally I use CO2, this grow I did not. I have found that depending on the location and temperatures you have, CO2 can create more problems then it is worth. This is yet another grow that proves to me that you dont need CO2 for big fat super heavy buds...but it can help sometimes for sure. The only problem I have run into with this system is that if you veg the plants too long, the roots get so massive that they eventually make their way into the return lines. Once I had a nice flood with 2" of water on the floor. I since had flood alarms, and they caught a flooded bucket a couple weeks ago and turned off the pump. The airpump stays on so there really is no negative effects long as it is addressed relatively quickly.

I have considered a larger return line, however roots grow whether it is small or large, it just takes awhile longer if its bigger. What needs to happen is constant checking to make sure the roots are not growing into the lines.

Here are the latest pictures. 7 weeks is up, were on the 8th final week. Flushing started today.

[gainesvillegreen]

Very, very nice. You're gettin' some respect from me right now :)

[Racerx]

Some more pics from yesterday. Check out the banana on the purple bud. At 7 weeks, a few bananas around are a good sign for me. It means the bud is pretty much done. I am going to try to get a picture of the trichromes. About 15% clear, 70% cloudy, and and 15% amber. I like this. Just waiting for flush to finish.

PS. Sometimes I use Flora Kleen or a similar flusher, but honestly Ive only noticed a difference when growing in soil. In hydro, I cant tell what is cleaned with water and whats cleaned with a solution. Solution costs money. Therefore, no need for solution. 1 week flush in hydro is good. Most of my leaves are still green. Otherwise I might only flush for 3-4 days.

[herbie the love bud]

Lookin fantastic, and I couldn't agree more about the number of plants. Its about the number of watts, not the number of plants. I have two plants right now that are finishing and they are going to yield me close to 1lbs.

[khaderama]

Could you do a write up of everything you needed for your build. It looks like exactly what I could do with the size room I have.

[BigWeed]

Awesome grow man just awesome. Peace and stay high.:rasta::rastasmoke::pimp:

[Racerx]

It is quite simple and inexpensive to build the buckets and recirculation. Its everything else that starts to cost money. The lights, the IGS environment controller computer, the 10,000 BTU air conditioner, the many osscilating fans, the air pumps, the 5 gallon things of nutrients, the water chiller, etc etc etc... Thats what costs money, so this system can be taken to whatever level you want.

I have done this system as small as 4 plants in a 5x5 closet with wonderful results. The # of buckets is completely up to you, and this will detirmine your size of reservoir and the type of water pump you use.

The parts necessary for recirculation are 1/2" hose, 3/4" hose, 1/4" hose, 1/4" 90 degree barbs, 1/4" straight barbs, 1/4" air hose (I use clear as it differentiates between water and air), 3/4" Ebb and Flow (Flood and Drain) bulkhead fittings (for the buckets and reservoir, 1/2" E & F bulkhead fittings, as many 3/4" and 1/2" 90 degree elbows, on/off valves, and T fittings as you need. Finally you need your water pump and your reservoir(s). For a much more detailed list of construction and parts, search my past threads in the Search function. The E & F fittings work great on the buckets and have never leaked. You just have to be careful when you drill the holes, keep the drill very straight.

For 4 plants, I used a 350gallon per hour pump, which is excessive but I had it laying around. For only 4 buckets, youd be fine with a 200gph but its nice to get a bigger one incase you expand in the future (since magnetic drive pumps dont wear out any faster even if they arent putting out their maximum output). Its also nice because it fully recirculates the water in a matter of minutes which is great for pHing and setting nutrients. Fast moving water also has even less chance to form pathogens, but more on that in a second.

I would use a 20 gallon reservoir for 4 plants or less (a Rubbermaid tote works great, I double them up because otherwise they can sag out from the weight of the water). The size fits easily between or amongst the 4 buckets or somewhere completely different. If the pump is strong enough you can have your reservoir in a completely different room or closet. The pump sits in the reservoir, pumping the water into the top of the buckets via the 1/2" main line that has1/4" line going into the buckets. The water sprays against the 6" Netpot, keeps the medium and rootball wet, creates water droplets, and adds water. The 3/4" return line recirculates the water back to the reservoir via gravity (the weight of added water in the bucket forces it to go somewhere, and your just giving it a place to go back too). You must have your reservoir the same height as the buckets because the level of water in the reservoir determines the level of water in the buckets. This takes a few tries to get right.


The absolutely most important part In My Opinion about DWC and Recirculating DWC is your water temperature. You can have everything else absolutely perfect but if your water temp is not controlled, its a good chance you will have problems or not experience the explosive growth you should be. DWC provides some of the best combinations of nutrients, Dissolved Oxygen, etc for some of the craziest growth you have seen. That is why 68 degrees F is your golden number. This is the best combination of available dissolved oxygen in the water that will keep any pathogens from forming and keep everything very clean. Anything cooler and you will stunt growth, anything hotter and you will most likely run into root rot. For this reason, I use a 1/4 horsepower water chiller for my big room. This can lower 150 gallons of water by about 15 degrees easily, meaning it can lower 75 gallons over 30 degrees. It works absolutely amazing and is the single best purchase I have made. Keeps it at a solid 68 all the time.

That being said, I have completed more then one recirculating DWC grow without a chiller and with great awesome white roots and good yields. However, I kept the temperatures very very low in the closets (usually between 60-70 degrees F), I used an 8" fan to exhaust (thats a lot of CFM for a small closet), and I put ice in the reservoir anytime it got warmer then 68 degrees. Sure, the water got as high as 75 degrees sometimes but if you keep things clean, use a supplemental cleaner like Hygrozhyme, you should be fine.

I also wanted to mention another thing about CO2 and room temperature and dehumidifiers. I have actually STOPPED using dehumidifiers as I found they created more problems then helping. I have tried a variety of methods of using them, including building an exhaust system for the hot air or isolating it or whatever. The problem is that when I need a dehumidifier the most is running a Sealed Room with CO2, but running a Dehumid exhaust the CO2 out the room. So if you have it exhaust the air back into the room to not lose the CO2, the room will get to hot.

The daytime has never been a problem for me. If I keep the plants separated enough i never get above 50% RH in the daytime. At night is the problem. However, I now am back to running an Exhaust fan about 5 times a night and programmed the Air Conditioner (a dehumidifier itself) to go on if the inline fan was not enough. This has allowed me to control humidity at night very easily. If I keep the plants spaced enough, 65-70% humidity at night is perfectly fine and is similar to the outdoors because colder temperatures inherently hold more moisture which translates to more RH. With 40-50% in the day and up to 70% at night, I get no mold, mildew, or any type of rot. RH is good too because it makes sure your plants to not transpire to fast. Obviously your strain might call for a different situation.

Do not run your fans constantly all night. The plants need some still air. I used to run my oscillating fans and sometimes exhaust fans 24/7. I have found I get better results with less occurances of mildew, etc when I run the fans on a schedule at night. For my oscillating fans, I run them for about 70% of the night. The breaks are about 45 minutes. The exhaust fan only goes on for a few minutes, since it is a 600CFM and the room is not that large.

I also wanted to mention that I drop my temps to about 55 degrees F at night. That is the main reason for the purple color. Granted Grapefruit is a purple strain, its not known for going purple. Almost any strain can be made purple by dropping temps at night AND using a very PK strong ratio of nutrients combined with powerful HPS lights. Lots of fans moving the cold air works well too.

For seriously detailed recipe for the system, visit ICMAG.com when it is back online. There is a full documented recipe there that I got my instruction from. Obviuosly I have made many of my own changes/improvements because of my situation. The original recipe calls for a LOT of buckets. DO NOT OVERGROW!

Here are some random pictures giving you an idea of what the system is like and how it is built. Ive done as many as 18 plants, as little as 4.

[PdoubleOTY]

dude that last pic is ridiculous....that is such a fucking amazing set up, and the lights are everywhere! i want a set up like that when i have a house...what has been your total $$ investment in all of this? im sure the profit from teh grows has already paid for everything

[Racerx]

dude that last pic is ridiculous....that is such a fucking amazing set up, and the lights are everywhere! i want a set up like that when i have a house...what has been your total $$ investment in all of this? im sure the profit from teh grows has already paid for everything

a lot =)

I dont grow for profit actually. I just really enjoy growing pot. Myself and my roommate are both heavy medical users. Its a really fun and addicting hobby. A single room like that costs over $5000 to setup correctly. Doesnt seem possible but when you break everything down it easily gets that high... A/C = $400, oscilating fans = $200, inline fan = $200, water chiller = $400, lights = $1200, nutrients = $400, plastic = $100, etc etc etc etc. It compounds faster then anything else. Plus you need wood, screws, etc etc.

For shits and giggles sake, in California a room like that costs about $600 a month in electricity (including normal use of the house). Add a few more lights in another room and your up to $1000. Most energy is for profit, they will always take your money, just dont be a day late when paying your bill.

Its very easy to grow super super dank pot without spending $5000 on equipment for a single room. You dont need a water chiller, you dont need $400 in nutrients, you dont need an A/C. But it sure does make it easier and since this is a hobby of mine, it is supposed to be as fun as possible. All I want to do is pH, nutrient, pull off dead leaves, clip the buds, and smoke em.

[PdoubleOTY]

yea my goal is to grow complete personal stash, and stash to hook up my buddies with super dank for super cheap cough free cough.. i just love weed and i LOVE LOVE LOVE good weed...so hopefully ill be able to achieve that one day..if i could harvest like 10 or 11 oz every 6-9 weeks, id be straaaaiiiiggghhhtt!

[khaderama]

That's crazy I wasn't expecting $5000. I want to grow with 2 1000 W HPS lights. How many DWC buckets do you think I could do with that? The room is already air conditioned. I don't want to do as many plants as possible. I want it like yours when you went from a lot of plants to just 6 and got the same yield. I'd be happy with half a pound a month. What do you think I could set up for $1500?

[Racerx]

That's crazy I wasn't expecting $5000. I want to grow with 2 1000 W HPS lights. How many DWC buckets do you think I could do with that? The room is already air conditioned. I don't want to do as many plants as possible. I want it like yours when you went from a lot of plants to just 6 and got the same yield. I'd be happy with half a pound a month. What do you think I could set up for $1500?

It really depends on the size of the room, what you want to do, are you doing vertical lighting or overhead air cooled, etc etc? With 2 vertical 1000 watts, you could do 6 plants like I did. The overhead lighting is not necessary it just can help. With the vertical lighting, stretch is far more controlled as well since the light isnt above. If the lights are overhead and aircooled, I would do 8 plants but I would suggest topping them because to maximize your overhead light you need to spread the canopy out. With vertical lights, its better to have a taller plant that can take more of the light.

[herbie the love bud]

That's crazy I wasn't expecting $5000. I want to grow with 2 1000 W HPS lights. How many DWC buckets do you think I could do with that? The room is already air conditioned. I don't want to do as many plants as possible. I want it like yours when you went from a lot of plants to just 6 and got the same yield. I'd be happy with half a pound a month. What do you think I could set up for $1500?


You can do A LOT with $1500. Per 1000 watts i would go with 5 plants in 5 gal buckets. Spread to like 25 square feet (5' x 5'). Topped 2x.

You only need like a 400W MH to veg them out enough to take advantage of that 1000W.

[khaderama]

I have a room rougly 6x8 that will be used for the sole purpose of growing. No need to build a closet or anything. I want to spend 1500 or less and be able to grow about 2 or so pounds a harvest.So far I think recirculating DWC is the best method. How would 2 vertical 600W HPS and an overhead 400 do with 6 plants? Where should I put the vertical lights?

[khaderama]

Nevermind I dicscovered how great icmag.com is. Way more information over there.

[BigWeed]

Hey racerx those buds on those plants look great man I give you much props. I plan on setting up a room like that now that I have the room and space to grow bigger plants. I plan only to breed and grow for personal use only and Im looking to set up something like your room. Ill keep this one bookmarked.:rastasmoke::rasta::pimp:

[bbc]

khaderama you may be ebel to set some tinge up for $1500$ if you use light mover`s and your room is completed (you do not have to construct your grow room) but 2000 or 3000$ will be closer to the final cost
cost :
2x light mover 200 + $
2 x 1000W 600-700 + $
the hydro setup will cost you abut 30-50$ pr plant (4 plant 4x50=200$)
1100$ that is just the basic setup tho ! ! !