77-80 Degrees w/ 35% humidity. Possible heat problem?

[daihashi]

I have a few plants that are exhibiting some problems while others are doing just fine. These plants are only about 7 days old.

My soil has no nutes and PH is around 7.0PH. I water this with water PH'd to 5.9 and the runoff comes out to be between 6.3 and 6.6.

I only water twice a week, trying to get 3-4 days in between.

I germinated these seedlings in paper towels and then placed them in rapid rooters before placing them in their semi permanent homes.

Please take a look at my plants. I've been trying to get help in my grow log and I get alot of people viewing the thread but no updates so I decided I would try here as much as I hate posting my issue in two places.

Below are pictures of plants in question with some explanations and questions.

[daihashi]

This plant has actually torn itself. I know it was not me because the plant sits in the second row and I took it out to water with the rest of the plants and noticed a very tiny tear one day. At first I thought it was just the serrated part of the plant.

4 days later I take it out to water again and the tear is bigger.

I'm wondering if the light was a shock to the plant or if it's having heat issues even though the average temperature in my box is about 77-80 degrees with 35% humiidity.

[daihashi]

This plant I also believe to possibly be suffering from heat issues even though my temps are, in my opinion, very good.

Notices the leaves "praying" upward. This plant however has discoloring on the lower leaves, however I know there are no nutes in my soil and I'm only watering with ph'd water.

This plant (as well as two others) have been droopy since they hatched out of their seedlings. This is something else I can't figure out as all the plants receive the same amount of water and watering schedule.

If anyone has any ideas on the droopy leaves part too I'd appreciate it. Right now I'm not going to water it for 5 days from the last watering. I watered it last on Monday.

[daihashi]

Finally the last plant with problems looks fairly healthy with the exception of yellowing at the ends of the leaves. Which I would say is nute burn except for the fact that I know there aren't nutes in the soil.

It's been watered the same as the other plant with ph water 5.9, to make the soil run off between 6.3 and 6.6.

I want to say this is also heat issue because there is slight "praying" happening in the leaves.

[daihashi]

I've lowered the plants down by about half of their height. Previously they were very close to the lights. I'd say about 1-2" maybe. I've lowered them down to 4-5" below the lights now hoping to see a difference.

If anyone can give me any answers, insight, or advice on these plants and my 3 droopy plants I've mentioned then I would appreciate it.

[Weedhound]

I think your soil has ferts in it that are too hot or your seedlings. What kind of soil are you using? If it is something with "timed release" ferts or does it say it has nutes already added?

[Weedhound]

They DEFINITELY look overferted if your ph is ok (and it sounds as though it is)

Revised: The Complete Guide To Sick Plants,pH and Pest Troubles - PlanetGanja.com (http://www.planetganja.com/highsociety/showthread.php?t=8778)

Try this and see if you can get some good info.

Good luck.

[daihashi]

I think your soil has ferts in it that are too hot or your seedlings. What kind of soil are you using? If it is something with "timed release" ferts or does it say it has nutes already added?

There are no nutes in my soil. It's been tested.

I test the soil run off at every watering.

The soil is calloways enriched soil. I bought it from a local nursery and spoke to the owner. Told him I needed a soil with no nutrients and this is what he gave me. I've read the package and it does not have fertilizers, nutrients, time release or anything to indicate that there are ferts in the soil.

Testing the soil with a soil test kit indicates there are no nutrients in the soil.

I can get fox farms brand, but they all have nutrients in it too.

Any soil suggestions that I can go out and actually hunt for?

Keep in mind I have 14 plants and so far 3 are droopy.

Only 1 of the droopy plants has discoloration on the leaves.

2 more plants have leaf discoloration.

This means only 3 of my current 14 plants are effected.

ideas?

[daihashi]

They DEFINITELY look overferted if your ph is ok (and it sounds as though it is)

Revised: The Complete Guide To Sick Plants,pH and Pest Troubles - PlanetGanja.com (http://www.planetganja.com/highsociety/showthread.php?t=8778)

Try this and see if you can get some good info.

Good luck.

I've read that and my plants can fit a number of symptoms. Unfortunatley I don't have enough expierence to be able to tell which problem is the definite one.

I was thinking heat stress because of 2 of the plants having their leaves arch upwards. Was I way off on this?

[Weedhound]

Usually your plants will go AWAY from the heat source.....not toward it. What kind of light do you have going and how close is it? The temps themselves are not bad.......but if your light is too close it will increase the heat around the seedlings. And do you have a fan or some sort of ventilation going for them? They should definitely have that as well.

I'm no soil pro....hence the link to problems for soil growers....to me the issue seems to be either ph or too much nutes for seedlings. It just doesn't LOOK like a heat issue....but then seedlings can do funny things. Also....which three are we talking about.......the three closest to the light? If its heat you should see it in a clear pattern from the closest plants outward.

I'm afraid that is all I can offer you here so feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt.....as I said soil is NOT my strong point.....at all. ;)

[Weedhound]

Ps....I'm putting my (imaginary) money on nuteburn.

Good luck.

[daihashi]

Usually your plants will go AWAY from the heat source.....not toward it. What kind of light do you have going and how close is it? The temps themselves are not bad.......but if your light is too close it will increase the heat around the seedlings. And do you have a fan or some sort of ventilation going for them? They should definitely have that as well.

I'm no soil pro....hence the link to problems for soil growers....to me the issue seems to be either ph or too much nutes for seedlings. It just doesn't LOOK like a heat issue....but then seedlings can do funny things. Also....which three are we talking about.......the three closest to the light? If its heat you should see it in a clear pattern from the closet plants outward.

I'm afraid that is all I can offer you here so feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt.....as I said soil is NOT my strong point.....at all. ;)

No your help is well welcomed. You know a worldly amount more about this than I do so I appreciate your input. If nothing else it gives me something to bounce ideas off of. I have pictures of the setup in my grow log but I'll post some here as well.

Previously the pots were probably about 1" away from my CFL's. Here's a quick rundown of my setup.

1 cardboard box 23"x23"x30"
Lined with Mylar inside.
1 19" box fan for the exhaust, set on low.
1 3 speed oscillating fan set in a fixed position also set on low.
12 CFL's:
4 60watt Equivelant CFLs
8 100 watt Equivelant CFL's
Total Lumen output = approx 14k (inside of a 2'x2' area).
Light schedule is 18/6, was 24/0 before.

Thermometer/hygrometer reads usually about 77 degrees and 35-37% humidity.

For PH testing I use an actual digital meter.

For nutes (which I don't use yet) I have a soil kit but looking for something to give me a better/more accurate read out of NPK.

All plants were pretty much equally distanced from the light.

I've since lowered the plants 4" away from the light. I'm hoping this resolves my problem.

The one plant with the mega super ultra retarded curled leaf looks to be doing a little better after only a couple of hours. It's second set of leaves are slowly coming back down.

The picture is my grow box before I lowered the plants. For reference those lights are about 1", maybe a little over away from the plants. I would say no more than 1.5"

I've since gone ahead and moved the plants to 4" away from the lights.

[daihashi]

Oh. I forgot to add. Before I Started using this soil I flushed the pots with about 1 gallon of water each. Another reason I don't believe it to be a fert problem. (I let the soil dry out before I used it.)

[rhizome]

There are no nutes in my soil.

The soil is calloways enriched soil.


So then what's it enriched with?

All "soils", by definition, contain nutrients. Planting mixes which don't contain any macronutrients are called " potting mixes".

If you want a nute-free potting mix, I'd recommend ProMix.

[daihashi]

So then what's it enriched with?

All "soils", by definition, contain nutrients. Planting mixes which don't contain any macronutrients are called " potting mixes".

If you want a nute-free potting mix, I'd recommend ProMix.

Here's the entire read out of the bag:

Front of the bag:

"Calloway's

because life should be beautiful

Enriched
Potting Mixture

All Organic with Canadians Sphagnum Peat

Used for All container Plants including:

House Plants
Annuals
Perennials & Herbs

New and Improved: Now with Expanded Shale and Lava Sand."


Back of the bag:

Uses and Benefits of Calloways Enriched Potting Mixture:

To realize the greatest joy from your container plants, grow them in Calloways Enriched Potting Mixture, a blend of purified composted fines, expanded shale, lava sand and Brown Canadian Sphagnum Peat.

Compost Fines and Brown Canadian Sphagnum Peat provide immediatley available, finely textured, organic matter to nurture the delicate roots of your container plants.
Expanded shale creates space for the movement of air, water and nutrients.





It seems to me there are no nutes in this. The bag doesn't say it, the owner told me it didn't have it, my soil test kit comes back clean and just to be sure I flushed the soil with 1 gallon of ph'd water per pot (pots are 4" square pots... small pots.).

I suppose after it all there could be some nutes somewhere, but it doesn't seem likely but I'm open minded.

With all that said what do you think rhizome? Also does promix come in a giant black bag? I think I Saw some at a hydro shop but was told it was coconut? I could've seen something else that wasn't proMix.

Is there a chain store I could pick up this stuff at?

[rhizome]

Calloways Enriched Potting Mixture, a blend of purified composted fines, expanded shale, lava sand and Brown Canadian Sphagnum Peat.
[LIST]
Compost Fines

Ding! And we have a winner!

Compost is a fertilizer as much as ammonium nitrate is- and there may be a bit too much compost for some of your plants.

Also- all that peat and no lime? What's keeping pH in range?

Promix comes in a bunch of differant packaging, and differant varieties- I really like the BX, which comes in a grey/silver bag or bale.

Equivalents are Sunshine, Faffrd's ( actually how they spell it). Home Depot will usually have one of the three, varying by region. Agway as well, if ya got one.

Umm- if you're using a soil that's proud to contain compost, and yer NPK testing w/ 0ppm results, something's wrong... Why isn't the compost showing up?

[daihashi]

Ding! And we have a winner!

Compost is a fertilizer as much as ammonium nitrate is- and there may be a bit too much compost for some of your plants.

Also- all that peat and no lime? What's keeping pH in range?

Promix comes in a bunch of differant packaging, and differant varieties- I really like the BX, which comes in a grey/silver bag or bale.

Equivalents are Sunshine, Faffrd's ( actually how they spell it). Home Depot will usually have one of the three, varying by region. Agway as well, if ya got one.

Umm- if you're using a soil that's proud to contain compost, and yer NPK testing w/ 0ppm results, something's wrong... Why isn't the compost showing up?

I'm not sure but everything is coming out pretty clear in the test kit. It's a crappy color test kit, not a ppm digital meter.

As far as what's keeping the PH down. I use ph down in my water and use it at every watering. If I use ph 5.9 my soil run off tests between 6.3 and 6.6.

The soil itself is probably about 7. My tap is 7.7ph, and if I water with that my soil run off is 7.3-7.4.

luckily these were just put into these pots not too long ago. I'm going to see if I can pick up some of this stuff tomorrow and some more pertilite and transfer the rapid rooters into the new soil.

Thanks rhizome. As you can see I'm a complete moron when it comes to plants. :thumbsup:

edit: wouldn't me flushing the soil prior to using the potting mix have removed the nutes?I was pretty thorough I thought :(.

either way better to start off with something people knows works. Thanks again!

[Weedhound]

Hey Rhizome!! :)
Great to see you and thank GOD someone who understand the mystery that is soil. :eek:

Dai...this is why I don't play with soil.....I quite simply don't understand it. Luckily Rhiz know his shit!! :thumbsup:

Rhiz...stop by my log when you have a chance. GREAT to see you......have missed your input. :)

[daihashi]

Hey Rhizome!! :)
Great to see you and thank GOD someone who understand the mystery that is soil. :eek:

Dai...this is why I don't play with soil.....I quite simply don't understand it. Luckily Rhiz know his shit!! :thumbsup:

Rhiz...stop by my log when you have a chance. GREAT to see you......have missed your input. :)

yeah, I don't understand anything at all. ROFL, but I'm trying desperately to learn.

I'm finding that I'm starting to get more excited over figuring out my plants problems than I am at the potential thought of a harvest.

I'll probably update this thread in a week to post the results. I"m just glad that the plants are still small enough to probably just be transfered with the rapid rooters as opposed to having to transfer some of the soil with the plants.

[rhizome]

Keep a close eye on the pH of the Promix as it get's older- they mix lime w/ the peat to buffer the pH up- peat is naturally very acidic. Eventually the lime is consumed and pH starts to nose-dive. No big thing if ya watch for it.

The compost must act as buffer in the Calloways ( or maybe the shale- very broad term)- otherwise you'd be treating the water the other way. Prob a fair bit of compost, or at least a fair bit of surface area.

Go ahead and use the Calloway's- just cut it with a bunch of perlite. You'll have consistant chemistry, makes it much easier to manage. Multiple media is a headache that you can avoid. Perlite's inert, so chem remains the same, just dilutes it. will drain much quicker, which is usually a good thing.

Hmm- album title in that... " The Chem Remains The Same".

[daihashi]

I mix in 33% pertilite with my calloways. To be honest I'd prefer to start with good soil. And my roots aren't long enough to be entangled in all the soil.

I think it's good for me to take advantage now before it's too late.

I pulled the rapid rooter and the roots have grown outside of it but it's definitely not something that can't be managed. They're only about 1/4" - 1/2" long outside the rapid rooter. Still short and spunky and not entangled in the soil or with each other.

If I don't mind using another media, do you think this would be a better route than just using the calloways with even more pertilite.

I really want to do things "right". You know? More so I want to understand why things are "right". Which I am picking up, albeit slowly :(.

[rhizome]

If only 3 of 14 are affected, I'd probably ride it out- if it is an overfert, they'll likely adapt as they grow. ( assuming they do grow).

My observations were more along the lines of " How does the math here work" than anything else.

Yer gonna stress all the plants if you transplant- it's inherent. Maybe add a week onto yer cycle. The same week of extra veg time will more than make up for any loss in yield from losing three of them- and you may lose more transplanting.

You can't finish up 14 plants in that cab anyway- you're way short on room.


So, at no real cost, you get a great learning experience, and some valuable lessons.

Some don't make it.

Start extras.

Don't kill the room to save one plant.

Once you wrap yer head around that, the whole thing becomes less stressful.

[daihashi]

If only 3 of 14 are affected, I'd probably ride it out- if it is an overfert, they'll likely adapt as they grow. ( assuming they do grow).

My observations were more along the lines of " How does the math here work" than anything else.

Yer gonna stress all the plants if you transplant- it's inherent. Maybe add a week onto yer cycle. The same week of extra veg time will more than make up for any loss in yield from losing three of them- and you may lose more transplanting.

You can't finish up 14 plants in that cab anyway- you're way short on room.


So, at no real cost, you get a great learning experience, and some valuable lessons.

Some don't make it.

Start extras.

Don't kill the room to save one plant.

Once you wrap yer head around that, the whole thing becomes less stressful.

Oh I know. The reason for so many plants was because I was confident in my ability to kill living things basically. ROFL. That and I was estimating 50-60% males.

If I happened to end up with more than 5-6 plants I Was going to give them to friends or just toss the weaker ones in the trash.

My mindset going into this was "I know I'm going to mess up along the way and there will be casualties. I want to have enough plants to be able to have 1 plant make it through a full grow cycle so I can learn.".

I'm really weary of nuted soil because my last soil was nuted and it destroyed my plants. They didn't grow and overall looked really sad.

Thanks for the input. I may just go ahead and start germing 3 seeds and put them in the new soil you suggested. Just for as a comparison measurement.

If I see the plants starting to get bad though I'll probably go ahead and transplant them.

Thanks again for the input!!

[daihashi]

I went to about 5 home depots, 3 lowes and a walmart before I finally found some promix today. I couldn't find sunshine or faffrds either.

I have to say, this stuff feels like friggin sex in my hand compared to the other soild I was using. It's so light and fluffy and sexy. I love it.