Hermie solution - confirmed!

[Help_Needed]

I posted a few days ago about a product that another grower had tipped me off on called Reverse from Dutch Master. I thought I'd come back and let you know how it went.

Quite simply this stuff is amazing. I applied a liberal dose - 250ml plus 2.5ml of Dutch Master Penetrate - to my last plant. There were two male flowers that I'd left on there deliberately, just to see what would happen. I was NOT expecting results nearly as quickly as I got them but....

Within 24 hours the male flowers had stopped producing pollen and they fell off the plant when I touched them. I haven't seen a single additional male flower since. This stuff has, quite simply, saved my grow.

And, no, I don't work for them :D. In fact, I really wish I'd heard about this stuff a lot sooner since I chopped my biggest plant last week when it hermied badly. But I know a lot of growers lately have had hermie problems and this is the first time I'd heard of this product, so I thought I'd pass on a helpful tip.

[the image reaper]

thanks for the report :thumbsup: ... sounds like it saved a plant for 'smoking' OK ... true test will be to see if the 'cured' female passes any new traits onto its progeny, as I suspect the 'hermaphodite-tendency' trait would still be present, and no good for creating seeds ... :smokin:

[Help_Needed]

true test will be to see if the 'cured' female passes any new traits onto its progeny, as I suspect the 'hermaphodite-tendency' trait would still be present, and no good for creating seeds ... :smokin:

Oh, there's no doubt in my mind that the plant would pass on the hermie trait. I have no plans to continue growing with the offspring of this plant. Right now it's all about trying to get good quality, seedless bud and not loosing the entire grow because of the hermie problem.

This stuff isn't modifying the genetics as far as I know. I believe that this is the same type of hormone therapy that they use to force a female plant to hermie so they can get femmenized seeds - only in reverse.

[Weedhound]

Good for you to have found the stuff. I've been preaching it for years and it finally seems to have hit the mainstream.

[Infamous]

Does it reverse the plant back to its original sex or does it specifically remove the male traits? Lets say I had a male and stressed it so much it hermied..... would this stuff change it back to a male or remove the male sacs and make it a female? Sorry if this is confusing I think I just confused myself :D

[Help_Needed]

Good for you to have found the stuff. I've been preaching it for years and it finally seems to have hit the mainstream.

I wish it was more mainstream than it is, honestly. When my first plant hermied, I looked at several different message boards and websites to see if there was anything to be done. The plant hermied rather badly and picking off the nanners as they formed was pretty much out of the question. The only other advice that *I* found was to chop the plant.

If only that grower had chimed in with the recommendation earlier, I could have saved what probably would have been a few oz of bud. Oh well, live and learn.

You can be sure that I'm going to become an active disciple in your preaching campaign :D.

[Help_Needed]

Does it reverse the plant back to its original sex or does it specifically remove the male traits? Lets say I had a male and stressed it so much it hermied..... would this stuff change it back to a male or remove the male sacs and make it a female? Sorry if this is confusing I think I just confused myself :D

Scratching my head on this one lol.

I've never heard of anyone getting a MALE to hermie and produce female flowers, probably because most people just kill the males at first site lol. But I don't think this product would work like that.

To the best of my, admittedly limited, understanding, this product works through hormones. In breeding, when a grower wants to create femmenized seeds (that will produce ONLY female plants) they take healthy female plants and give them male hormones which forces them to hermie. This Reverse stuff does the opposite - it gives female hormones to the plant. This has the effect of suppressing the male traits and eliminating the male flowers. But I *think* the plant had to have been female originally - or at least a natural hermaphrodite.

I suspect...and this is only a guess...that if you applied Reverse to a male plant you'd get a hermie, but I don't think it would cause the plant to cross over and become completely female, because it wouldn't actually elminate the male genetics.

[PharmaCan]

Does it reverse the plant back to its original sex or does it specifically remove the male traits? Lets say I had a male and stressed it so much it hermied..... would this stuff change it back to a male or remove the male sacs and make it a female? Sorry if this is confusing I think I just confused myself :D

According to Dutch Masters, it is the same technology that is used to make seedless watermelons. It's like it neuters the plant.

You are actually supposed to use Reverse within the first ten days of flowering as a prophylactic measure. It works later on in flower, but then you have to get your buds all wet and that's never a good thing.

PC :smokin:

[Weedhound]

Very very true that you can preach until you are blue in the face but no one hears it until its something THEY need. If you run a search on hermies here....you will find no LESS than 10 (and probably a LOT more) references to using Reverse to stop the problem by ME ALONEand god knows HOW many from otherse who use the product. Yet only NOW am I seeing people actually stop, read, spend the bucks, and actually use the stuff. It's so HARD being so FAR ahead of the game.......:S2:

[Help_Needed]

You are actually supposed to use Reverse within the first ten days of flowering as a prophylactic measure. It works later on in flower, but then you have to get your buds all wet and that's never a good thing.

Yeah, but the stuff is so friggen expensive that I'd hesitate to use it as a preventative, unless I already knew that my plants had a high chance of turning hermie. I shelled out $45 for the two bottles I bought - the Reverse and Penetrator.

As for getting the buds wet, I'm not sure how big of a problem that is. When I sprayed my plants on Friday night the spray was completely absorbed within about 10 minutes. I suppose in areas with higher humidity, mold might be an issue, but it's pretty dry where I live, especially in winter.

[Weedhound]

PS....I believe Reverse only works with female hermies. It's also only gauranteed to work if you use it according to the instructions on the bottle....day 1 of bloom and then repeat on day 10. Otherwise it does NOT promise to stop male flowers ALTHOUGH I have heard of SEVERAL people using it in other ways with good results. ;)

[Help_Needed]

If you run a search on hermies here

Ah see, there's my problem. I didn't actually search. I looked at Stinky's stickies and scanned the first 2-3 pages of plant problems. And did pretty much the same thing on other sites - checked the FAQ and just scanned the forum.

Unfortunately I figured that the hermie question was one of those that gets asked over and over and over, and that it pretty much always got the same answer. As a result, I didn't see any of YOUR posts.

Guess that's what I get for being lazy :o

[Weedhound]

Ah...I don't know if that's lazy. It certainly never occured to ME that there might be some spray out there that would prevent hermies.....know what I mean? I found the stuff as much of a miracle as you did.....believe me. :D And yes....it was AFTER I discovered a problem myself. ;)

It is kind of funny because I have a very good friend who sends me seeds from his plants that hermie.....the seeds are all female because the plants themselves are. On another site someone mentioned that such seeds will also most likely hermie (of course) so he always got rid of them. I don't......I use Reverse, grow them, and smoke them. I doubt I'd use such seeds for breeding but for growing for myself of COURSE! :thumbsup:

[Help_Needed]

Yeah, I knew about the hermie thing. I had a batch of clones from my plant that I was gonna use to make a couple of mothers for future grows. When the plant hermied I chucked them, figuring I didn't want to keep the hermie genetics since very future grow would also hermie.

But now that I know about this stuff, I might take another handful of cuttings. It'll save me from having to order seeds for next time.

[HuntleyD827]

Does anyone know why Dutch Master Reverse has a disclaimer in tiny little letters stating "hydroponic use only"? I can't see how it would make much difference as it's a foliar spray. Thanks.

[Weedhound]

I wasn't aware of that......but I'm sure you can use it on soil plants. I've used it on plants grown in soil myself. Perhaps they are afraid people will snort it or inject it or something.......

[FlyGuyOU]

I wonder if it produces manboobs

[HuntleyD827]

I checked with the Dutch Master website in Australia. In their FAQ section they say the reason they put "for hydroponic use only" is for registration purposes. Apparently all of their foliar sprays can be used with any grow media. Cool. Spray away!

[HuntleyD827]

It's been about 3 days since spraying with Reverse. Other than some leaves starting to turn lighter, I really haven't noticed much. Does anyone know how long it takes before you notice results?

[Weedhound]

What sort of results are you looking for? The only result you should really see is no balls which is more of a what you DONT see thing I think.

[Weedhound]

Did what I say make any sense.....? :stoned:

[HuntleyD827]

I guess I'm waiting for all the bananas to magically disappear. :)

[wesley willis]

thanks for the info everyone.... i grew out another bag seed and just cut it down yesterday at week 12. it was a sativa for sure, and was starting to throw nanners but only a couple seeds. i guess thats the way it goes with bagseed, seeing as it was one of only a couple seeds i found on the pot.

i may try this product, but i dunno. i ordered nl#5, blue mountain jamaican and california orange from VSB as an early christmas present to myself. hopefully the genetics are good as i've never had a hermie before the aforementioned one.

[Weedhound]

Huntley,

It won't make them disappear.....only prevent new ones from growing....:(. You are actually supposed to use it on day 1 and day 10 of flower then your females WON'T hermie. Any nanners already on your plant are there to stay......sorry. :cool:

[Chronisseur]

Huntley,

It won't make them disappear.....only prevent new ones from growing....:(. You are actually supposed to use it on day 1 and day 10 of flower then your females WON'T hermie. Any nanners already on your plant are there to stay......sorry. :cool:

I hear they have this surgery out called Nannerplasty....I'm not sure but I think it involves removal of the 'manhood':wtf:
...lol

Sup Weedhound, how's tings?

[HuntleyD827]

Weedhound,

I never had this problem before I started buying seeds. White Widow seems to be the worst. Bought from a different place this time. Don't know why the other continues to go hermie, though. Conditions are optimal. Second batch of clones from the same WW look much healthier and were easier to root than the first so maybe things will improve. I'm also going to spray on day 1 and 10 with the Reverse. I ordered a product called "Le Femme Sex Change Hormone" from a place in Australia. Maybe you've heard of it.

[Weedhound]

Afraid that's a new one on me. The absolutely 100% most common reason I have found is light leaks. A good light leak will LAUGH at your Reverse and hermie your plant anyway. For me, most other kinds of stress do NOT seem to break through the Reverse and here is a (partial) list of things I have done to my plants during flower.....with NONE going hermie.

Undernute, overnute, broken branches, burned them with molassas, burned them with fungus spray, over pruned, abnormal ph (both ways), water too cold, left the pump off and anything up to about 2 screw ups with the lighting.....NO hermies.

I think you have a light leak. ;)

[HuntleyD827]

Weedhound,
Hermies abound so I think it's time to clean things up and start over. It won't be a total loss though. Oddly enough some plants weren't effected at all, some only slightly. A lot got tossed. I'm starting to wonder if I might be giving them too much light. This all started a few months ago when I went to 600s for 12/12 stage. I assumed it was a coincidence. They're vented well so it can't be heat. Perhaps instead of just starting over I should think about backing up. Maybe dust off those 400s I still have.

[Weedhound]

I can't believe going to a six hundred from a 400 will do that.....I'm thinking that there is light leaking in somewhere during your dark period. A good rule that I was taught was that if ANYWHERE in your grow section you can see your hand in front of your face its not dark enough. Do you have anything glowing like reset buttons on your surge protecter etc etc....? What seems very small to you could seem like a LOT of light to your plants.

[HuntleyD827]

I have 2 600s in a closet that's about 4'x6'. Hoods are up high and vented well but that's still a LOT of light for such a small space. As for leakage problem, I found a 4 pack of blackout curtains, about 40"x84", for $68 plus shipping. If nothing changes at least I'll have eliminated the main suspect.

[420freedme]

wondering if you followed the label then took clones from sterlized mom. say day 2O of flower you cut know hemie, that you reversed on day 1 and 1O and now on day 2O there are none, but its a plant you know from previous grow is hermied good by day 2O w/baby nanners.

so its a good mom now? i mean a clone is a exact copy, so the reverse clone siouldnt hermie? epigenetics would apply, but ?? ? im high.

weedhound, i used help_neededs hermie method before...rip and toss. I will try this if the need arises.

[Weedhound]

420...personally I wouldn't "trust" a plant that had a background that included any "relatives" that hermied. It's very true that if you use Reverse (and no continuous light leaks) your plant will not hermie but the genetics are still there. You're just changing their conditions for awhile. ;)

[HuntleyD827]

Weedhound - It's been about 3 weeks since I used Reverse and installed blackout curtains to eliminate even the possibility of light leaks. If these gals go hermie now I can't imagine what it could be. I'm right at 30 days into flowering cycle and so far no bananas. Do you think I'm safe or am I not out of the woods yet?

[Farmer Rich]

Hey All,

I'm curious, if you have some probability of hermi's wouldn't it be a good practice to use Reverse as a preventative measure regardless of spotting any nanners?

:jointsmile: Farmer Rich

[Weedhound]

Hi Huntley,

Sounds good so far. Light leaks (and I mean more than one....say three or four different occasions) are the worst thing so if you can avoid those you should be golden. ;)

Rich that actually is the recommended way to use it. I spray all my stuff as directed on the bottle as a preventative and it works great! :thumbsup: The only thing I've seen REALLY break through the Reverse is continual light leaks.

[Farmer Rich]

Hi Weedhound,

Thanks for reply and confirming what I thought.. Too bad I didn't figure this out a little earlier! I got a hermi in my first grow that managed to spread some pollen around my box. Oh well, the next one will be better!!

:jointsmile: Farmer Rich

[HuntleyD827]

It's possible I've had light leakage probs since day one and just didn't notice it until I got something more sensitive like White Widow. I mention this because I've noticed an overall improvement with everything else. Since we're discussing the benefits of Dutch Master's Reverse, does anyone know of something they make called Liquid Light? Seems to improve the plant's ability to use light more effeciently.

[Weedhound]

I heard about Liquid Light from Opie Yutts.....and have just started using it myself. My hydro guy says he has gotten rave reviews about it but I can't speak from personal experience....yet. ;)

[cmasfca]

What exactly does it do weedhound?

[Weedhound]

Dutch Master (http://dutchmaster.com.au/hv_faqs.php?product=4)

Let me find Opie's thread on it....

[Weedhound]

http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-growing/146275-how-do-you-guys-gals-foliar-feed-what-s-miracle-food.html

The last page especially talks specifically about Liquid Light and Rock Steady put some great info on it in there as well.

I've only used it once so far but will trying it again today. Could be my imagination but it DOES seem to be making a difference already

[Rock.Steady]

I will chime in on Dutchmaster, Reverese, Liquid Light and the Weedhound, a splendid one to behold, nice rep level hound;)

first, i will state i'm a dirty boy, soil only in my world:cool:

WH intro'd me to Reverse, by DM(thanks again WH, ur the best!):thumbsup:

during my 2nd grow, i made a modification to my setup that resulted in a lite leak which Hermied a cloned Female.
I ran out and got the Reverse, immediately.
the directions say use it 2 times in 10 days,
use once, wait 10 days, spray again, at any stage of growth, when you observe male traits (balls) appear. It states that it will STOP the male development. IT DOES.:thumbsup:
also, according to WH, it can be used at the beginning of the flower cycle, as a preventive measure. this would be assuming u have seeds of questionable origin(bagseed) or hermied origin.

I am currently working with some mystery red bagseed and sprayed when i moved to flower, so far so good.

Also, the Blue Russians I have running I treated with Reverse, as a simple preventive, just in case.
Results? Out of 3 beans sprouted, 1 showed Male early, goodbye. the 2nd was a Female and is thriving, the 3rd took weeks but finally showed weak male only genetics.
In my opinion, this is active proof that this product definately inhibits male genetics in plants. This is the only logical explanation for the 3rd plant taking so incredibly long to show any signs of sex at all, and when it finally did show sex, it was male, goodbye to him too.

now, about the Liquid Light.
My local retailer tried to push the LL when i picked up the Reverse during my Thai-hermie panic, but it wasnt in my budget. Opie's thread mentioned by WH, started me thinkin again about the product. I wont hyjack your thread with a lengthy write up on it, but i strongly believe this stuff works, read Opie's thread, its a worthy time investment,,,,well,,,,,if you want bigger, happier girls:thumbsup:

So, i'm impressed and fairly sold on the DM product line, from personal experience. I have no affiliation with DM, I paid money for it, just a happy customer.:D

as for the Weedhound,,,, This is a great person, and I like to say the first and best friend I have from this particular site. I value her info, honesty, friendship and great network of growheads she has.

i'm also not affiliated with WH, she's married;), but she's so cool, I had to give her props:thumbsup::D

[HuntleyD827]

33 days out and not a banana in sight. Is it too early to shout, Viva la Reverse!? I hope not.

[Rock.Steady]

hey Huntley, im 4 weeks in with Galina, and the last male that showed, was week 2 or 3,,,,,,your mileage may vary ;)

whats the strain?

[HuntleyD827]

Rock, my problems are almost specifically with a White Widow, which seeds came from Nirvana. The Reverse has definitely made a difference, but I'm sad to say upon close inspection this morning, nanners are starting to pop up again. They are still green and quite small, but they seem to be back. Now at 34 days out, I'm wondering how bad it's going to be in 22 days. Previously the nanners would have been all over, and easy to spot from a few feet away, but not this time. None of these have even turned yellow yet. At least now I know it's not a light leakage problem. Your thoughts?

[HuntleyD827]

Another characteristic of this WW is, at the end of every branch, at the tip of the last bud, is a tiny little tulip looking thing that is half light purple at the top, and half white at the bottom. Does this at all soundfamiliar to anyone? I'm getting so frustrated with this WW I'm on the verge of trashing every plant and starting over. None of the others give me this me trouble! I don't think anything is going to stop the hermies with this one.

[Weedhound]

My only thought is that oddly enough I saw some of what appears to be male flowers starting and I've been watching too. I picked a few off and studied them under a loupe but honestly could not be sure whats they were. I'm seeing it on one plant that.....interestingly I grew before, used Reverse on and there was not a single seed in the entire plant so I'm positive the Reverse works.

All I can say is...one...are you positive they are male flowers? Mine DO look suspiciously like.....but with magnification I honestly can't tell a thing so will continue to watch. I'm also going to spray an extra dose of Reverse myself tomorrow on said plant for some extra good juju and you may want to try this yourself. Are you using the penetrator? You should use that with it for sure. To be honest however I never did anymore than used it according to directions (two applications) and it worked just fine. In fact I SAW a male flower on one of my plants in my last grow and I totally blew it off....could't possibly be a nanner because I use Reverse so I completely ignored it.

I have a friend who's plants always hermie......he's finally tried the Reverse and says he's still having problems so whatever is going on there I can't say but I will say that up until my last grow.....when I discovered a light leak.....I never had a single plant hermie on me when I used Reverse EVER. And while I am looking at my OWN suspicious looking plants I'm going to withhold judgement until I see what develops. The stuff has always worked great for me and I have some serious faith in it.

[HuntleyD827]

Well, they sure look like male flowers, but I do have to use a magnifying glass to see them. No clusters of yellow flowers at this point.

I have three seedlings I grew from WW seeds from KindSeed. It will be interesting to see what happens with them. The fact there are so few nanners, and this late into flowering, I am a little encouraged. Also, only the WW seems to be affected this time, so more proof the Reverse does have some benefit. I still wish I knew what those little tulip looking things were.

[Rock.Steady]

Huntley, have you made it to the 2nd dosage, 10 days later yet?
i think/guess, that if its hermied and u give the Reverse a chance, according to directions, it 'may' bail u out.

its just a hunch, based on manufactures directions and my own logical deductions.
WH is really the expert on this product, but i would give it a chance to do its magic.

i will say that when i used it, the balls stopped and the ones that remained, easily were removed, without re-occurance.

[hybridlove420]

ive got possibly the worlds healthiest male indica right now (5th leafset is 9-bladed and already growing nads in 20h veg)

can i use reverse to make it a girl?

please?

[Weedhound]

i'm afraid not hybrid. As far as I know the only thing Reverse will do is halt the growth of male flowers on a female plant. It won't change anything on a male plant at all. Rock said he thought it slowed regular male flowers but I think he just had a slower growing plant to begin with......I never saw it slow down (or change) the males I used it on before I went to female seeds. But it cerainly stopped ALL hermies in their tracks right up until I developed a continual light leak. I've gotten THAT stopped this grow but only time will tell for sure. :)

[Rock.Steady]

the only way Reverse will help is if its Hermied.

i'm afraid, if its a male,,,,,,,,its a male.

[hybridlove420]

bugger....guess ill wait anothe week or two until the feminized sativas are flowerable.

get a couple dozen seeds with an early flowering maybe...much better than messing with clones

pS: i hate cloning, they either die, take forever to actually gain growth, or (in the case of my most successful) develop bad rusty-looking burns and grow really ugly extended 1-blade leaves out all over the place, making it look even stupider.

[HuntleyD827]

Rock, 2nd, 3rd and 4th!!

[Weedhound]

How do they look today Huntley?

[Rock.Steady]

dam dude, 4 x's already?

i agree with WH, how do they look today, progressing towards the weirdness, or stallin?

[HuntleyD827]

Everything looks fine from a distance, but when you get close you can definitely see them. Not in the same numbers I've seen before. Compared to the last time this is nothing. If it doesn't get much worse over the next 2 or 3 weeks, I might be ok.

[Rock.Steady]

any pix Huntley?

[HuntleyD827]

No pics at the moment. I need a camera with a lens better suited for close up work. This could be the nudge I need. As for the nanners, if I have to I'll harvest the WW early. Won't be the first time. The last time I did this it was much worse, but the smoke was excellent. Definitely worth keeping if you catch it early enough. Anything else I have will get a weekly spray of Reverse. Not sure increasing things will be much beter though. Hopefully the WW I grew from different seeds will be better.

[Weedhound]

Well that sucks and I'm sorry to hear it. I've been checking my stuff and everything has turned out to be either a calyx or a new leaf....none of what I saw before has turned out to be any nanners so far.

You are 100% sure that you don't have any even teeny equipment lights or anything that could be contributing to the issue......surge protectors or ANYTHING.

PS.. I have a white widow that I just started from seed.....she's less than a week old right now (a feminized seed) I will let you know how she does and whether or not she hermies in about four months. ;)

[HuntleyD827]

Weedhound, I have three WW seedlings, also from feminized seeds, and this time from a better company. They're only about 3 weeks old but I put one in the dark yesterday. I'm really anxious to see if there's a difference. We'll keep each other posted. None of the other varieties has been affected, at least not so far, and most are older than the WW. I'm going to keep a close eye on everything, though. When nanners start popping up, how long is it before they pose a threat to everything else? I would think Reverse would at least stop them in their tracks, at least that's the impression I've gotten.

[HuntleyD827]

I'm at the same stage I was at a few weeks ago with another WW, cloned from the same plant. It's just under 40 days, so if I harvest now I'll have the least amount of hermies and a pretty decent smoke. It will also help eliminate the chances of the others getting contaminated. And besides, I need the space. Damn, a problem even Reverse can't fix. On the bright side, though, not one hermie on any of the other plants.

[Weedhound]

Yes it's supposed to something like 99% effective unless you have some sort of continued stressor to the plant.

my ww is only about 2 weeks old so she's way too young to hermie.....yet. :D

[HuntleyD827]

I have two more WWs in 12/12, cloned from the same plant, that are about 3 1/5 weeks old, plus two more in veg. Although no nanners are visible yet, I am seeing the same tell-tale little tulip things again on the tips of each long bud. And since all the other signs are there, I can only conclude it's going to keep going hermie. Time to get out the clippers and make room for the new WW clones and seedlings, which are all from different sources. Right now everything new is just right to go to the flowering stage. If I let all of it get tall and leggy, waiting for nanners, when I know damn well they're going to pop up eventually , I'd feel pretty damn stupid. They might be goin' hermie but they sure look healthy. What a pity.

[Weedhound]

do you have any equipment in there with any lights? I'm sorry but all that reverse and hermies right left and sideways? There HAS to be something else going on. A very good friend of mine just used it on his grow and his stuff ALWAYS hermied......so far not a single seed from seven out of nine plants and hes quite happy with that.

You've got something else going on that's contributing somehow and I'd bet money on that. You must have some continous problem to keep coming up with hermies.....

[HuntleyD827]

WH, there is nothing at all with lights, and every other possible source is lined front and back with blackout curtains. I even nail the edges down with pushpins when I close everything up for the night. The fact I have not had this problem until now along with the fact only the WW seems to be affected, would lead me to believe it is in the plant

[Weedhound]

That is such a bummer.....I'll let you know how my WW does...whether she hermies or not.

I'm sorry it isn't working for you Huntley and I'm bummed to hear it as well because I just scored a big point with my other friend's grow and no seeds.

[HuntleyD827]

Someone told me I might be having problems with WW hermies because they're going from 400 watt lighting in the veg to 600 in the flowering. Is there any truth to this? On the brighter side, a friend gave me 6 WW cuttings a few days ago and six have sprouted. I guess we'll find out soon if it's genetics or environment.

[Weedhound]

I've never heard of lighting like that causing hermies.....my plants go from a 400wmh to a 1 kw HPS when I turn them to 12/12 and it's never caused an issue for me. And while I have heard of heat stress causing hermies it seems to more a temperature issue rather than a lighting thing.

[Opie Yutts]

...I've been preaching it for years and it finally seems to have hit the mainstream.

Oh you know Weedhound, always one step ahead of everyone else. A leader. A teacher. A revolutionary. And no I don't work for her.

[HuntleyD827]

I have to agree with you, WH. If it was a problem going from 400 to 600, then why does everything else get so fat! He he
To update the WW/hermie saga, I'm still seeing a few hermies but they look different this time - all shriveled up, maybe even dead. Maybe the curse is broken. I've started to use a little more Penetrator with the Reverse. I have WW from three different sources now. Something's gotta work!

[Weedhound]

they look shrivled up? Interesting.....I've heard that if you do get male flowers they are supposed to be sterile....please let me know if you get seeds in your grow.

[HuntleyD827]

WH, I know people that panic at the first sight of a nanner, but in reality, when do they actually start producing pollen that could infect the other plants? I'd like to push it as long as I can but I am a bit concerned. Thanks.

[Weedhound]

Thats an excellent question that I have no idea of the answer to. STINKY!! I will work on trying to find out but I think it may be a matter of days. Don't quote me until I've had a chance to look around though. :)

[dejayou30]

I also started using this product thanks to Weedhound. When do you guys apply it? The directions say to spray on flowering plants and repeat in 10 days, so would you just do Day 1 and Day 10? Then again, it also says something like use in weeks 1 and three of flower, and week three would be Day 15 at least. I tossed out the bottle so I don't have what it says verbatim, but I could have sworn it mentioned two different application methods.

Last time, I just used it three days in weeks 1 and 3, usually MWF. Is this wrong? One bottle has been enough to do it my way. I also don't use the Penetrator although this is contrary to directions.

It worked last time, so hopefully I will have the same success again.

[Weedhound]

Deja the only way I know how to use it is on Day 1 and Da 10 of flower. I have sprayed it an extra time or two when I've stressed my plants out in one way or another but those times are definitely extra. ;)

PS...When are you going to start flowering your latest plants Deja?

[HuntleyD827]

WH, after closer examination I discovered that the hermie problem this time was so slight I was tempted to just leave it alone. But there were a few, so rather than take a chance I went ahead and harvested one of the two. Unlike before, I was a tough call this time. The Reverse definitely helps, but it took 4 sprays this time. I might give the second one one more spray and let it go the full 56 days, which would be three more weeks. It's been a fun challenge but it's gotten tiresome. I'm moving on with the WW I have from two other sources. It's been a learning experience for sure.

[hanayama]

i just pick up the "reverse" and "penetrator" from my local hydro hook up
one question tho.
do i just spray the leaves? or do i need to directly spray the nugs/seeds(I am 5 weeks into flower...so they are kind big)

thanks for the help

[hanayama]

scratch that question...found my answer.

heres a new one tho,
i was look at dutch master website. they have some pretty cool stuff.
if i wanted to start a foliar feed, what would be better? using the max fx and the folitech together(recommended on their website) or use the liquid light(cannot be used with the other ones.)

and would using either of those be ok in conjunction with fox farm liquid ferts and solubles?

thanks

[Weedhound]

Use Liquid Light with the penetrator....trust me....it's all you'll need for a foliar spray. :thumbsup:

[hanayama]

i think i shall
thanks weedhound.

using that wont affect my using FF ferts, will it?

[HuntleyD827]

WH, I'm happy to report, after 45 days in 12/12, not one hermie on any of the new WW's! And they look gorgeous, Yum!

[Weedhound]

Huntley I'm SO glad to hear that!! Congrats!! Do you think you were able to pinpoint the problem or just use the Reverse and work with it?

[hanayama]

do i need to wait 10 days before re application of the reverse?

i ask because i sprayed her 5 days ago and she still has nuts!
i dont think i sprayed enough the first time.

any help? much appreciated

[Weedhound]

Yes....You have to use it as directed on the bottle....day 1 and day 10 of 12/12. There ARE those who say it works otherswise (just spraying on an already hermied plant) but I am not one of them. DutchMaster only promises good results if used as directed. :cool:

[hanayama]

yea, this is reactionary... already had nuts on her...so it might now work then?

[HuntleyD827]

WH, the problem as far as I can tell was bad seeds. Although the Reverse definitely reduced the number of hermies, which extended the flowering time, it was still a problem. Everything I have now that's 100% hermie free is from feminized seeds and clones I got from a friend. I took cuttings from the ones I grew from seed and all had huge root systems in only 6 days. I bought some Liquid Light but haven't used it yet. Is there anything special I should do before using it? The directions say to have the plants no less than 2 or 3 feet from light. I use 600s so I'm concerned about burning them.

[Weedhound]

Huntley, good qestion. I have found that the LL can DEFINITELY burn my plants if I leave the light on while they are drying (which the company says to do....DONT!) and even though they say it can be used every other day I've found that to be too often for my plants as well....twice a week at most. On seedlings I would only use it once a week despite the company stating to use it on ANY rooted plant over a week old. I burned a nice little nexxus plant following that advice. :(

I turn the lights off and put a fan on the plants until they are dry and THEN turn the lights back on.

Opie had been using the stuff at half strength and I think I will try this myself as well...This LL has a pretty good kick to it.

[HuntleyD827]

WH, that's weird. The instructions say to place it close to the light. Have you contacted to company about this? Makes me wonder if it's worth the risk. Maybe I'll try it on one plant first.

[Weedhound]

Yes I know...they talk about how it won't work if you turn off the light etc etc.....but I've DEFINITELY have had some issues.....especially with very young plants and even then the problems occurred despite the fact that I would always turn the light until they were dry.

Spraying water...or ANYTHING....on a plant with an HID light right there just goes WAY against my grain.

I'm definitely going go to half strength myself. I DO love what it does for the plants but want to avoid any issues.

[HuntleyD827]

Then I will certainly proceed with caution. I spray with Neem oil and peppermint soap fairly often for spider mites and have never had any burned leaves but I'm not taking any chances. These WWs are beautiful. 51 days, no hermies. Only 5 more days to harvest time!!! :)

[Weedhound]

Sounds great.....my girl is just heading in day 20 or something. How does the WW smoke.....how is the high?

[HuntleyD827]

All I have ever smoked was what I harvested early because of the hermies; 35 days. As good as that was, I can't even imagine how good it is after 56 days and no hermies. I'm at 51 days now and it's all big beautiful nuggos. I am so tempted to harvest early. As far as the high - very cerebral and very strong. It's been a big seller in Amsterdam for years.

[Weedhound]

My girl's going nuts! I've heard they were picky etc but mine's been a beast so far. Make sure you let me know how yours smokes for you

I heard WW was very popular, but have never tried it due to all the gossip I heard about how hard she is to grow.

[HuntleyD827]

All I can say is that I started about 6 months ago and only now do I have a full grown WW not plagued with hermies. I guess it's more difficult if you're working with bad stock or bad seeds, but I could have saved myself a lot of trouble if I had only bought feminized seeds to begin with. And from a good company, too, in this case being Kind Seed. BTW, just two more days till harvest! It is fat and dripping with resin. The temptation to harvest early is driving me crazy. :)

[HuntleyD827]

Do you put much stock in how the trichomes look? Every sign says this gal is ready, but the trichomes are clear as a bell. Odd.

[Weedhound]

I HATE it when they do that......the plant looks so delicious....day after day......She's just teasing you it sounds like.

Snip off a sample and dry it on the top of your fridge or something warm overnite and do a tester. That's pretty much how I do things....I DO watch the trichs for sure but since I've tried so many different kinds I pretty much go with how my "samples" do for me and between different strains it probably comes out anywhere from cloudy trichs w/perhaps 5% amber to 20-ish % amber depending on the strain.

[Weedhound]

Huntley if you get a chance check out my C-crowd grow log....I'll be posting a pic of my WW later today....she's grown into an absolute MONSTER! :D

[HuntleyD827]

BTW, how long are you leaving your WW in 12/12? Do you think 55 days is enough under two 600 watt lamps? About half the hairs are red and under the flos I can see just a few trichomes starting to turn a slight amber. Checked out your grow logs. Everything looks great. Didn't know you were hydro. I'm wondering if I'll ever break away from soil.

[Weedhound]

Samples! It's your girl Huntley.....whats that old saying? Have it YOUR way! :D

[HuntleyD827]

Samples it is. And away we goooooooo! :jointsmile:

[HuntleyD827]

Uhhh, I think it's ready. :stoned: Woo Hooo! My God, this is incredible. Definitely cerebral. And definitely unlike anything I have had so far. This is interesting. Think I'll deal with the harvest tomorrow, ya think?:D

[Weedhound]

Let me offer....smoke a couple samples to make sure its consistently what you want......then CHOP AWAY!!! :thumbsup:

[HuntleyD827]

Tomorrow will be 56 days which I'll set as a benchmark. I have three plants. I'll harvest the second two a little farther out. But right now it's spectacular, more than I anticipated. Probably better for people who've been around and can appreciate the nuances, like a fine wine I suppose. It really gets behind your eyes, this one.

[Weedhound]

Man I can't WAIT to try it myself....you've really got me excited about it now. :D

[Help_Needed]

Tomorrow will be 56 days which I'll set as a benchmark.

FWIW, a guy I know on another forum is a medical care provider and grows White Widow by the bushel. He cuts on day 60, like clockwork. Doesn't even bother with the trich or hairs.

I followed his advice and my crop was about perfect. The trichs and hairs never did change much on my plants *shrug*.

[Weedhound]

That's an interesting way.....he only grows the WW?

[Help_Needed]

That's an interesting way.....he only grows the WW?

Pretty much. And if I remember correctly, they're all clones that came from the same original plant. He's kept mothers and clones running off that initial plant for quite a while now. That may be why he gets away with the 60 day harvest, although I know a couple other growers who followed his schedule like I did, with good results.

He *is* experimenting with a small Master Kush grow this time around, but it's only a couple of plants.

[Weedhound]

MK will finish quicker than 60 days generally............

[HuntleyD827]

I finally picked up a good camera. Hopefully I'll be posting some good pics soon.

[HuntleyD827]

WH, how would you compare WW with MK? Also, what's the best bloom booster you've ever used? I've been using Hydroplex, mainly because it's made by Botanicare (I use all their other stuff) , but have thought about switching to Beastie Bloomz, at least for awhile on a few plants. Thanks.

[Weedhound]

You got me Huntley...Hydroplex is the only bloom booster I've ever used so can't say but I have heard some good things about "kool bloom" and it seems to be popular but can't speak from experience. Another one is Gravity by Humboldt but that one actually scares me.......I've seen people ruin some crops using it because it's pretty strong stuff.

I've also never tried the WW YET.....I actually enjoy GROWING the Master Kush more than smoking it. I've been on a search for more "up" high's and I don't really count MK among them but can't compare it for you until I've actually tried the WW....couple more weeks till then..........sigh.........:D

PS.......Here's a photo of my girl in week 4 of flower.

[HuntleyD827]

I've got a WW at 51 days and by all the signs she's ready. Could this be?

[HuntleyD827]

But she didn't pass the sample test so back in the dark she goes. What a great method, thanks.

[razzapiggy]

I am six weeks into flower, three weeks from finish and have noticed two hermies. One had a single male flower on it, the other had about four or five. I pulled them both immediately and am curious about this Reverse product I'm hearing about.

I see people saying to not use it deep into flower because you don't want to spray anything on your plants under an HID. I've sprayed with anti mildew sprays with no problems ever. I applied pretty liberally too.

I am not all together super concerned about spraying deep into flower as I've never had a problem before, but I'm curious if this Reverse shit is going to work?

Seems opinions are split down the middle, some say it works at any point in flower... some say it doesn't. I'm willing to give it a shot but I'm curious what the vets have to say about this product. I really don't want anymore of these fuckers to hermie but in all honesty I have a hard time believing this product can change the hormonal tendencies of a plant?

[Weedhound]

Razza....this grizzled old vet says to use on day and day 10 of flower......exactly the way the directions say. If anyone uses it outside those dates pretty much you are on your own and no guarantees it will work if used another way imo.

[razzapiggy]

Hmm, gotcha... seems other people have had good experience late in flower with it. Anyone else care to chime in?

[Opie Yutts]

what's the best bloom booster you've ever used? I've been using Hydroplex, mainly because it's made by Botanicare (I use all their other stuff) , but have thought about switching to Beastie Bloomz, at least for awhile on a few plants. Thanks.

I've had very good luck with the the Fox Farms bloom enhancement series, but I mostly followed the directions and used all three parts: Open Sesame, Beastie Bloomz, and Cha Ching in that order. I'm sure the process made my nuggets more dense and dripping than usual. I was pleasantly surprised. My next grow I will be comparing that to Advanced Nutrients 3 part bud enhancers, Bud Blood, Big Bloom and Overdrive (not sure of the order). They were highly recommended by grow store guys, and after reading about them I can see why.

See more here: http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/140716-lsttt-low-stress-twisty-tie-training-12.html#post1818159

[Opie Yutts]

... you don't want to spray anything on your plants under an HID. I've sprayed with anti mildew sprays with no problems ever. I applied pretty liberally too.

I am not all together super concerned about spraying deep into flower as I've never had a problem before, but I'm curious if this Reverse shit is going to work?

Of course it's going to work, everything made by Dutch Master works, and works well.

Spraying stuff on plants under HID is not a problem and I do it all the time, just keep a couple things in mind.
- HID bulbs and even hot glass covering bulbs can kinda explode if you get liquid on them.
- If you get liquid on your plants under HID, be sure to move your lights way back, maybe 4 feet, until the liquid has dried. Otherwise the liquid acts like a magnifying glass in the sun and fries the plants. If that happens it's not a big deal really, it might shock them for a day though and they'll look like dalmatians.

[stinkyattic]

You can avoid the magnifying glass effect by adding a surfactant like a drop of dish soap to the spray bottle.

[Opie Yutts]

And of course the best surfactant is made Dutch Master and is called Penetrator.

[razzapiggy]

So, is does or does not work later in flower?

I am curious if I should spray the ladies with Reverse... found a few hermies outta the bunch over the last few days. Ripped them hoes straight out but I wanna treat my ladies nicely. =)

[Chronic Chrissy]

This should definatly be sticky'ed.

[cannabiskrunch]

250ml of what and how much of who??? u done confused me

[Weedhound]

250ml of what and how much of who??? u done confused me

Huh??? :confused:

[HuntleyD827]

Hi Weedhound, how have you been? I assume by now you have been enjoying WW. Things are great here. No hermies or other problems to speak of. The only thing out of the ordinary is the fact I'm harvesting my WW in less than 45 days! Have you ever heard of this? It's crazy! I don't know where they get the 55 to 60 days til harvest. I wonder what's causing this accelerated growth. Any ideas?

[phillwag]

Thanks for all the info on hermaphrodite plants!! I started one crop from seed last year, ditched all the males and thought I had 4 lovely females, only to find that all of them hermied:( I'm guessing, from all the posts I've read, that I've got a light leak because my climate, nutrients and water temp have all been good. I've heard you can enter your room using a green light...true or not true? Anyway, with regards to the reverse...could this have prevented the hermies and created some reliable females? I'm thinking of trying again and am wondering if I should use the reverse as a preventative measure to hopefully produce strong females to clone from....any suggestions? Also, do you have to use the penetrate with it?

[Weedhound]

I believe it has to be an LED green light.....not just any old green lighting.

Huntley, missed that last question completely....sorry......I had some Master Kush that kicked out 4 oz by day 44......the second plant in the same setup went to something like 55 days and gave me 7 oz. Once in awhile you get a speed demon or two.

And phill.......yes, use the penetrator for the best results.

[Man1fesT]

I got a plant that started to Hermie about 4 days ago, I ordered Reverse and it just came today. I was about to spray it on my plant when I read to add the "penetrator", I've been reading and learnt it was to increase osmosis on the leaves... Well I didn't order and penetrator because I didn't even know about it, so I'm wondering if its absolutely needed? Or will I be okay with JUST the Reverse and no Penetrator?

[Farmer Rich]

I think you'll need Penetrator too.. With Penetrator, I believe the ratio is 1:4 with Reverse. Also, the way to apply Reverse (according to the directions.. ) is: when you first flip to 12/12, and a second application 10 days later. Not sure how successful you'll be but good luck!!

Peace,

Farmer Rich