Tox salt buildup affect flavor of product? (split)

[jim55555]

if those plants have toxic biuldup like nuts will the stuff burn properly and still taste sweet or will it tastes like soap? ? ?

[PharmaCan]

if those plants have toxic biuldup like nuts will the stuff burn properly and still taste sweet or will it tastes like soap? ? ?


http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/66177-does-curing-affect-potency-find-out-here.html

PC :smokin:

[jim55555]

i wanted know about flavor NOT potency.i have read here about the toxic build up of plant food that burns the plant thus i was wonderin about if its more of a burnier flavor.
i will checkout the potency/curing writings anyhow.

[jim55555]

i read the material.the flavor seems to die off over time BUT the potency increases.that makes sense,what about the plants that got plantfood burn,when the leaves tips are yellow i think brown and the foliage darkens.theres alot of pics here of different stages of the affliction,my intrest is only about the flavors affects of excess salts and salt biuld up in plants .i wonder if the flavors will be more saltier,it would seem to take alot of toxic salts to unbalance the salt/sugar content enough to give it a not so sweet taste with included a slight burning sensation.

also while im here,ive already read alot of material here however i cannot find information about root rot and the affects on flavor if there is any.i would imagine theres not any affects on flavor associated with root rot.

let me know your thoughts.

[Weedhound]

They taste like metal, can give you a headache and the buds dry very crispy and very fragile. Just flush your plants. ;)

[jim55555]

will plants with dead salts still have a odor while they are alive or will there be no odor whats so ever.:thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

I'm sorry.....i'm not sure what you mean. Odor of ? Just that lovely blooming ganja smell? Yes if you are talking about the scent of the flowers.

But if you are asking about some sort of odor or smell due to the salt build up itself...then no.

[jim55555]

ok i just got some more info.i figured if you knew a little about the setup you might be able to help him.he has a dwc setup with 2
2x3 trays.on benches about 20" off the ground.they have a fill/drain connecter at the end of each tray ,they are connected with general hydro blue tubing via T fitting then one line goes into the rez to the output on a pump which is on the bottom of the rez.he is using 6" mesh pots w a rw cube with hydroton filling the rest of the pot.

he uses a 400 and a 150hps

he has already had success with this exact setup,i figured it might be important to know that too.
when the system runs a cycle it starts to fill the 2 trays,it takes about 6-8 minutes and then another 8-9 to drain back into the rez.ph is perfect 5.5 nutes are never mixed past half strength.
he is using dynagrow grow for veg. then dynagrow bloom these are very easy salts to work with from what he told me.o n he was using the dyna brand protect silica at 2 tablespoon for 25 gallons a very small amount.bloom was mixed at 1.5 teaspoon per gallon respectivly.there is a fan,he had spidermites n got some ooths to control them naturally because he dont never use poisons.
so when the water pumps into these trays it can fills the tray to the top of the mesh pots then they soak a few mn then drain.
it seems like a very simple setup to me, one time he said to me that if he sat on front of them and watched them for 6hrs he could see them growing.whats the proper way to flush the salts he said he used regular tap water to flush then for 24hrs then went back to 1 teaspoon bloom.
as for the odor he said he smells almost nothing in the room he said the rez has more odor then the plants.

let me know what you think,he mentioned clearex he said he seen in the internet.

[Weedhound]

http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-faqs/103225-here-simple-proper-way-flush-your-plants-hydroponics-system.html

I flush my plants the same way it's explained here.....at least the last several days of the grow and more if possible. I use Flora Kleen but Clearex is along the same line and I'm sure would be fine.

[jim55555]

what about the absence odor from the plants? that seems like a much more serious problem.he has flushed them with regular water and i mean lots of regular water.O THE PLANTS do not have extreme salt biuldup,the leaves are not curling under only some of the tips are yellowish some brownish.

i got some more info,some of the stems have reddish streaks on them,many of the leaf stems have reddish to purple leaf stm color.
im not a expert at growing plants myself ,but i know from raising other plants that those colors are deficeincies.

he seems to be fixated on the absence of odor,like you said the sweet flowering smell is non-existant ,i beleive its driving him mad,the mystery at least to him.

[stinkyattic]

Tell your 'friend' that some strains simply don't give off much smell in flower.
You can have salt tox problems without showing leaf curl. Tipburn is another symptom. You should understand that in presence of excessive salts or out of range pH, nutrients present in the soil become unavailable to the plant. Therefore, you see deficiency symptoms when in face you may have plenty of fertilizer.

[Weedhound]

You also need to give better info......the question you asked me was about toxic salt build up affecting taste......nothing was said about lack of smell in the plants being a problem. If you make yourself clear i'll try to as well but i'm not a psychic.

[jim55555]

this is a diffifult situation as you figured out by now,there is about 3 issues the main one being the lack of odor and the horrible taste of his product,sickening to be to the point.he's not 100%sure about the toxic salt biuldup because the plants ARE NOT CURLING,
he just assumed that was the issue because it tastes evil,very bad flavor, i mean its soooooooooo bad .

i gave i info on his nute cylces and what kind of nutes hes using,
he never used them more then half stregnth and the ph is always in range.there was i incident about 4 weeks ago ,he was refiiling the rez with cold water,its winter here and the next day he ran a cycle through and the water cold,very cold too cold he said.then over the next week or so plants with nice roots changed from white to a light brownish color,other plants that had not had as much roots seemed "stunted".last night i talked to him again and he said"the smell has not come back yet,see hes been using this same strain and it smelled before and since this incident ,nothing.

last night he said he switched to the grow food at 1 teaspoon per gallon and been running it for last week.he said they starting to look better ,it still tastes like shit he said.

i dont smoke much im a recreational user,but i gotta tell ya this is the worse of the worse i ever smoked ,the buzz is not like a thc buzz, its like a draining buzz like the beasters,but its 100x more draining.
any info you need just let me know because i wou;ld like to help him if i can.

he flushed them with regular water because he dont have the$$ to buy the clearex yet. can you link to the homemade flush mix i was reading its suger and water.i did mention the no odor problem later because i didnt want to confuse anyone with 3-4 things at one time.
i will get more info ,matter a fact i will get lots of info.

[stinkyattic]

You know you're supposed to let the plant mature and ripen before harvesting?
Am I reading between the lines correctly that you are simply nabbing nuggets from the growing plant? Are you smoking buds, or leaves?
What you are describing- 'like the beasters' is the unpleasant high of an unripe plant, one that has not been given its full flower time to finish. Most strains require 8 weeks or more to complete their flower cycle, and if they are harvested early, as Beasters are for reasons more to do with PROFIT than product quality, you get an 'unfinished' sort of high.

The plant must finish ripening, then you harvest and trim, then dry, then cure. After cutting down the plant, you still can't consider it ready to smoke for at LEAST 3 weeks.

[jim55555]

he cut 3 and they were ripe ,they are the ones that are for the most part unsmokable,it burns sure but the taste is ass.and then theres your headache too.hes trying to save the rest i told him its prolly toaste.i tried to smoke some that was like 2 weeks old ,been dried and in a bag for 2 weeks ,i took a puff and tasted it in my mouth and spit it out it was so bad.it does have somewhat a smell in a bag,the smoke did not smell like mj.

[Weedhound]

That DOES sound like unflushed hydro weed...spoken from someone who has made that mistake .....and you can taste an almost a metallic type taste in the weed...coppery or something ......does this sound like what he's getting off his plants? The headache is the other clue.....that sure sounds like unflushed weed to me. :(

But if you are just a recreational smoker I'm a little surprised that you find the taste so bad....usually it's the "upper crust" I hear from who don't (or do) worry about the taste. The HIGH however.......:eek: THAT dont sound good.....:wtf:

Stinky....is Beasters an actual strain? Or just a "type" of sloppy growing and harvesting?

[stinkyattic]

Beasters is a class of indoor Canadian commercial product; by many accounts the strain is M39, which is said to be very good when grown properly and allowed 9 weeks to finish rather than the 6-7 that the growers (said to be predominantly Vietnamese gangs... I'm not there though, don't know for sure, lol) allow it to finish. It is also known to be kiefed off before sale so that there's a side-product of hash, and the buds are left with little to no crystally appearance on their outer surfaces.

Jim, how do you determine when it is time to harvest? Can you show pics of a plant that you believe is ready to chop by your previous standards?

HArshness comes from excess chlorophyll in the plant. The pigment will burn your throat when smoked. It's harsh. You MUST withhold Nitrogen during flower, ESPECIALLY after the first week or 2. A ripe plant will be going through its Nitrogen stores and unable to produce much fresh chlorophyll.

[jim55555]

That DOES sound like unflushed hydro weed...spoken from someone who has made that mistake .....and you can taste an almost a metallic type taste in the weed...coppery or something ......does this sound like what he's getting off his plants? The headache is the other clue.....that sure sounds like unflushed weed to me. :(

But if you are just a recreational smoker I'm a little surprised that you find the taste so bad....usually it's the "upper crust" I hear from who don't (or do) worry about the taste. The HIGH however.......:eek: THAT dont sound good.....:wtf:

Stinky....is Beasters an actual strain? Or just a "type" of sloppy growing and harvesting?

his flushing consist of empty the rez with nutes at the end of the day,after he emties it totally he refills it with regular water and let it sit overnight then the next day he plugs the pump back into the timer and let it run about 5 cycles on that "flushing" day,he beleives thats enough to flush the salts out.

i am the upper crust. and even the lower crust would not want to smoke this.i am gonna get a blow by blow timeline of "all" the events leading up to this mystery.so far the praying mantises are still alive n eating ,he was worried about the toxins and your health,because i would imagine your health could be affected in some way.
right now there are 2 groups in the setup 1 group is at least 4-5 weeks into flower n they look pathetic but looking alittle better.
the 2nd group are younger 1-3 week into flower.

at least we got one thing out of the way,the no odor phenomenon is NOT caused by the nutes.

[Weedhound]

he can use plain water up until the last two weeks of harvest if there is no clearex.....Make sure the ph STAYS in range...it will jump around ALOT with no ph buffers. A week on plain water should do fine......run the system as always....just use ph;d water instead of nutes.

[jim55555]

hes running he dynagrow grow right now for the next 4-5 days then hes gonna try flushing them for a few days.
do you adjust the ph after you run the water through or after?
what should the ph of the water be for flushing ?

another fact,he never adjust the ph,he has general hydro up/down kit with a ph tester. he says at 1.5 teaspoon per gallon the ph is perfect.
the plants had mites but not so bad that it affected yeild.
now when this situation started the plants slowed down and the mites began to concure the garden,the mites got a suprise though 1 of the ooths hatched about 4-5 days ago and of course they are eating alot of mites,you can see the mantis stomach full of black stuff is mites.they hang out on the tops ,i was at his apartment the other day watching them,

he told me they are doing better but the leaf to bud ratio is way off.he said its like 30/70 favoring leaves when before it was 70/30 favoring bud.i told him to keep a eye on the ph,i read that on another thread.i also told him that if they got fert burn it should still have a sweet flowering odor.i am basicly relaying info to him.
i might be possible that when he stops over to my house he get get on here and you can converse directly with him would be even better i was thinking.
i been reading alot of threads here and i beleive he is still using stone age growing techniqes even though he got a nice hydro setup hes NOT using some of the other additives others here are like for example many peiople are using "sweet" and molasas,and a few other things i cannot remember off the top of my head.
i mention this to him and he said they are crazy.LOL see he dont have a pc but hes cool plus he lives out in the woods so hes sorta outta touch with the newer ways.i beleive,i know his setup got a lot of potential he just gotta get up to date on more modern techniqes.months back when he got the dyna products i tried to tell him to get the general hydro 3 bottle system but he insisted on the dyna.thanks for all the info so far,you might not kno it but hes a decent person,ive known him for about 11 yrs. ive helped him out before with other situations,i like helping him,hes not like some of the other people ive met or kno.i kno he appreciates the help.

[Weedhound]

If he has pests of some kind.....that will certainly affect that nice scent you are talking about. Pests will stress his plants out TO THE MAX so that would be answer right there. There are tough sprays etc that will work for him but he has to be willing to use them (you said he was old school...). A pest infestation can really put him through the ringer....not only with this grow but in future ones as well.

Most of us do things the modern day way here.....no offense to your friend but its probably the only way I know how to grow.....chemicals and numbers and checking ph etc......so not much help in old fashioned way of doing things I'm afraid.

love the "i am the upper crust" statement. :D :thumbsup: He should check and adjust his ph before and several times a day while flushing his plants. Anytime it gets out of a good range (5.6-6.2) he wastes times while the plants have to recover.....even if it's not something he is seeing happening.

If the ph is good...the nutes are not too much (1/2 strength you said) and he's using good water without a bunch of crud in it (where is he gettng the water?) then my guess would be that the pests are doing more of a number on his grow than he thinks.

[jim55555]

i did not get the time line of events,i spoke to him today and he said it now has some odor ,matter of fact he siad it had the lovely blooming ganja smell .i am beginning to think he dont get enough fresh air for his self and the odor is there but he dont smell it.
the good news is that he is smelling something.
he said"they look much better,the roots are finally growing at their normal rates and foliage is beginiing to grow again.
i beleive him.hes supposed to stop by this weekend with something so i guess i'll see.

does anyone use mantis ooths to control pests?they would seem to be the ideal predator.:S1:

[stinkyattic]

he told me they are doing better but the leaf to bud ratio is way off.he said its like 30/70 favoring leaves when before it was 70/30 favoring bud.
This is typical of a plant that has been fed too much nitrogen too late into the flowering stage. Leaf-to-calyx ratio skyrockets.

[jim55555]

This is typical of a plant that has been fed too much nitrogen too late into the flowering stage. Leaf-to-calyx ratio skyrockets.

do you kno of anyone that had success using the praying mantis (hatching ones ) very tiny to control pest or have you never heard of such a stupid idea?

[stinkyattic]

I've heard of many more growers using ladybugs indoors because they are cheaper and easier to get, and you can keep quite a good number of them around. I've used them myself in the past, not in my grow, but at a commercial greenhouse where I used to work, and they were very effective. I get an infestation of ladybugs in mhy grow twice a year, don't know where they come from, but I consider it good fortune and they really knock down the pest population!

[jim55555]

I've heard of many more growers using ladybugs indoors because they are cheaper and easier to get, and you can keep quite a good number of them around. I've used them myself in the past, not in my grow, but at a commercial greenhouse where I used to work, and they were very effective. I get an infestation of ladybugs in mhy grow twice a year, don't know where they come from, but I consider it good fortune and they really knock down the pest population!

what about praying mantis nymphs i quess you might call them,he is putting a ooth in the garden 1 a month so its a continous hatching of mantis about 200-300 per oth hatch,they can survive in a hydro envirment,once they been feeding 10-15 days they seem to be able to float really good and use your plants to climb up onto the tops,when they first hatch they float like canoes ,he told me some drown but not many.also when you are running your water cycle to turn the fan off,he got regular light with no air cooling so he dont kno how it would work with aircooled lights.
i was over at his place today.he just got a heater for his rez.
i TOLD him to buy the titanium heater but he dont listen to everything i say and he got the glass one thats like 15$ cheaper.
n he got it and aint no way its gonna work cause its for a fishtank.
the good news is hes realizing more and more everyday about hydroponics itself,i gave him some info i got so he can get his stuff going the right way.
like with the heater i sat down n told him the titanium will be able to take MORE ABUSE then the glass one,it can get dry n not bust,he got the glass one n i dont beleive hes happy with it either so u quess hes sending it back for the other titanium.

before i leave i have talked him into getting a pc so he can be more in the circle then he is now.
thanks for the info ,if you have any info on the mantis let me kno he cannot use the ladybugs for some reason he didnt explian to me.