New Grow. 1st Grow. Ebb and Flow

[piglet420]

I'm about to begin my first grow. Like any n00b I have questions and hopefully I can get these sorted out before I move out of germination stage.

This grow is dedicated to my Father-In-Law. The seeds were from him about 9 months ago in a plastic baggy. He passed in July from Lung Cancer but I know he really wanted me to give this a try. According to him this was some really good herb, something about being purple. If I can get anything to grow and it makes it to bud then I'll post the pics for identification.

Here we grow:

1) Germination began last night. I started with 24 seeds and placed them in grow plugs that were saturated with Liquid Karma solution. 1 tsp to gallon, removed all the air from the plugs and placed one seed per plug into a seed tray. I covered the tray with a humidity dome. Lighting is being produce by two 2 foot T5 high performance grow light relector kits. The lights are about 6 to 8 inches from the top of the dome.

Question: How long should I wait until I see something?

Question: At what point should I remove them from the tray (I assume they stay in the plug for the remainder of their lives) and place them in my ebb and flow? Is there a height or a certain number of leaves that would be best?


I will update this log daily, whether there is news or not, for the same reasons everyone else updates their logs. I will post images as soon as possible so we can all "oooo and awwwwww" at the progress. I like to conerse with people so any input is appreciated. I will answer all questions to the best of my ability.

Thanks folks!

[Shovelhandle]

Good luck, piglet. Sorry, but I've no advice for hydroponic growing but I know a little about lights and soil so who knows...

Read the Grow FAQs and keep posting.

Shovelhandle

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Piglet,

Welcome to the forum,

As for how long till you see something. I use the paper towel method for germination but this I do know, for the seed to crack is anywhere from 24 to 72 hours, then from there for the seed to pop out of the soil is another 48 to 72 hours, so it could be 3 to 7 days before you see anything. Make sure you keep them nice and warm around 80 to 85 degrees this helps speed things up. Also have a fan blowing on them before the sprouts emerge from the block. I never used a dome for germination or sprouts only for cloning. That is my way though, I have read about others using a dome though.

I am a soil grower so I do not know much about hydro, but I can help with lighting, electrical, and some growing questions.

Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

I just noticed something else you are germinating 24 seeds!!
Hope you have alot of space or are going to do a very short veg cycle. You will more than likely end up with around 12 females +/- 1 to 3. I started with 15 seeds and got 9 females in a 4'x4' space and that is barely enough room.

[piglet420]

The germination of 24 seeds was to guarantee me at least 4 females. These seeds are old, sealed in a plastic bag but still old. Additionally, I wanted to make sure that if anything did germinate that I'd have enough females to grow. I'll have questions about extra females later today or tomorrow but I have to go for now.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

How old are they? from what I read you got them 9 months ago. How long did your farther in law have them?

I have germinated seeds that were 5 or more years old before. They were kept in a drawer in a film vile and they germinated ok. Seeds if stored properly can last a very long time.

Oh well what's done is done and we will go from here, I would plan on alot more than 4 though.

[piglet420]

Well nothing has cracked out of those seeds as of yet. Hopefully they weren't too old or dried out.

As I said earlier I'm germinating 24 seeds. The reason for so many seeds is to guarantee (by odds) that I'll have at least 4 females to grow. The problem is that I don't have the capacity to keep all 24 in one system while waiting to sex them.

The system I am planning to use (i've already built it) is a DIY Ebb and Flow. I'm using an 18 gallon res and 14 gallon grow container. The grow container lid will be cut to accomodate 4 5" net pots to be suspended from the top so it can dangle in the solution when the container has been filled.

So there is the problem. Let's say I'm lucky enough to get 12 of those 24 seeds to pop. Lets say even more or a few less. What can I do to keep them alive while I am waiting for the first four to sex?

I really don't want to invest too much more. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

You can't keep them in hibernation. You are going to have to grow every seed that germinate's. You can't sex them till they are sexually mature , around 4 weeks old or when alternating nodes appear.
How much grow space you have? If you get lucky and all the seeds pop up you are going to have to do a soil grow for the extra plants, or get a bigger hydro system.

[Opie Yutts]

I copied and pasted this last night, and was able to save it as this forum crashed (at least on my computer). I don't know how much of this was already answered since then, but I'm not in the mood to go back and change things anyway. Sorry for the weird format, I was just lucky to save it before it was lost for good. So here you go:

1) Germination began last night. I started with 24 seeds and placed them in

grow plugs that were saturated with Liquid Karma solution. 1 tsp to gallon,

removed all the air from the plugs and placed one seed per plug into a seed

tray. I covered the tray with a humidity dome. Lighting is being produce by two

2 foot T5 high performance grow light relector kits. The lights are about 6 to

8 inches from the top of the dome.

Ouch. Bright lights too close. Move at least to one foot back for now. At least

until they have been hatched for a couple days. Then move closer gradually

every other day or so.

Question: How long should I wait until I see something?

From 2 days to 2 weeks. Keep em warm and moist, not warm and wet.

Question: At what point should I remove them from the tray (I assume they stay

in the plug for the remainder of their lives) and place them in my ebb and

flow? Is there a height or a certain number of leaves that would be best?

When there is enough roots so that they will get wet when the system is

flooded. Usually 2 or 3 weeks after the plant breaks through the surface.

Make sure you harden them before moving them out of a humidity

dome or they will melt. After you first see signs

of roots, take the dome off for as long as it takes to see signs of wilt (not

long at first). Keep doing it off and on, and see if you can slide a pencil

under the hood to prop it up. Once they can take it, prop it open even more.

Continue until you can leave the dome off. You can use an anti-wilt, but I've

never needed one.

Question: I looked at the lighting section and I am still confused. I can

purchase a 400HPS light setup with the built in ballast. I think that's all I

need but I'm sure someone will tel me differently. The question is, and I

believe it was answered as "yes", can I veg and bloom with 400HPS only?

Yes, but for about the same money you could get higher yields by getting a

ballast that can do both MH and HPS, then you could have the correct lighting

at all stages of growth. Digital ballasts are quieter and cooler and cheaper to

run, so they pay for themselves shortly. Digital ballasts run HPS and MH with a

conversion bulb. Cheaper are the regular ballasts, and you can get switchable

ones. I would not consider a ballast built onto the light. You want the ballast

outside the grow area if at all possible. Heat will be a huge issue. Plan on

spending as much money on venting as HID lighting. I also am a big fan of cool

tubes and enclosed hoods. These will keep the bulb much cooler and allow you to

get the light right close to the plants. If you must get only one, get HPS. But

I vegged for my first time with HPS recently and there is a huge difference. My

600W HPS is vegging slower and smaller all around than my 400W MH does.


Liquid Karma is/are nutrients. No nutes until the plant has been living above

ground for two weeks. Everything the plant needs are in those halves of seeds.

Anything more might kill it. Then gradually and slowly is the safe way to start

adding. A tiny bit of B1 such as SuperThrive mixed with PHd water is what you

want in the beginning. Nothing else.

[Opie Yutts]

so we can all "oooo and awwwwww" at the progress

Let's hope so.

[piglet420]

Hi Opie,

Thanks for chiming in!

I moved the light away by a few inches per your suggestion. I'm not holding much hope out for the seeds. They were in a small ziplock but they looked pretty dry and beat up prior to my handling them. We'll see.

In case they do make it, the LK was per the suggestion of the clerk at the hydro store. I only dipped the grow plugs the initial time and since then it has been reverse osmosis water from a lite spray.

Lighting - which will be my failure. I'll bite the bullet and do what you suggest. You're correct, it's just a few dollars more and I was already contemplating it but I only wanted to do this one time.....kind of as a tribute to my father in law. As a homeowner I AM AWARE of the implications that could arise. If it pans out and is a fun hobby then maybe I'll continue.

What are your suggestions for a DIY ebb and flow? I have an 18 gallon res and a 14 gallon grow tank. I can cut out 4 holes in top if the grow tank and place 4 4 to 5 inch net pots in the holes and they will dangle in the solution. My reading here suggests that the tank may be too small but I've seen smaller with good success. My goal is to keep the plants no taller than 3 foot in height and I have a feeling I will need to learn how to top them.

Lastly, and my biggest issue, let's say I can actually get about 12 plants to start. My goal is four females. I'm not going to be able to sex anything until I'm well into my veg stage ......correct? Can I take my 4 strongest looking plants and place them in the hydro garden and take the remaining 8 and place them in regular pots under those T5 lights just to keep them alive long enough to swap out any males?

Just a few random thoughts. Oh, nothing has popped as of today.

Thanks

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Piglet,
Maybe you were right about your seeds, starting to look like they were to dryed out, what has it been 3 days or 72 hours. I would give them 48 more hours in the mean time, I would start thinking of a backup plan for seeds.

Oppi is a great resource for you hydro questions, as I said I am a soil grower

[piglet420]

Hi Jerry,

Thanks for the reply. I dont really have a backup plan and wouldn't know what to do about seeds. I'm pretty hesitant about the places on the web to get seeds from. Kind of scared about ordering...not getting ripped off but getting caught.

I'll watch for a couple of more days and then tear into one of the grow plugs and go fom there.

Thanks!!

[piglet420]

All,

I found a link that demonstrates the ebb and flow system I want to build. Any comments?

Grow Marijuana FAQ, Cannabis cultivation - marijuana growing tips & photos (http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/1094.htm)

Thanks in advance.

[piglet420]

Oh and I'm confused. Should I use the square pots and lay them in the container or should I use a lid, cut out circular holes for net pots and let them dangle?

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

There are some very reputable seed banks, I got mine from one. you don't have to use the internet. I use an international money order, or you can also can use prepaid credit card,
you will see hemp depot and mandala seeds recomened a lot give one of them a try.

[piglet420]

I guess right now is as good time as anyto order some since the holiday season shoould keep the postal inspectors pretty busy. Any suggestions? Looking for a fun happy long high.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

I am currently growing white widow, can't tell you how good quality is yet cause it is not ready yet. I am also growing some mystery seeds that came with them as a bounus. the mystery seeds are going to be bigger yeilder.

If I were you I would start a thread in seeds and strains and ask this question.

[Opie Yutts]

What are your suggestions for a DIY ebb and flow? I have an 18 gallon res and a 14 gallon grow tank. I can cut out 4 holes in top if the grow tank and place 4 4 to 5 inch net pots in the holes and they will dangle in the solution. My reading here suggests that the tank may be too small but I've seen smaller with good success. My goal is to keep the plants no taller than 3 foot in height and I have a feeling I will need to learn how to top them.

Lastly, and my biggest issue, let's say I can actually get about 12 plants to start. My goal is four females. I'm not going to be able to sex anything until I'm well into my veg stage ......correct? Can I take my 4 strongest looking plants and place them in the hydro garden and take the remaining 8 and place them in regular pots under those T5 lights just to keep them alive long enough to swap out any males?


There are many examples of DIY construction on the net. Choose the one that looks best for your situation and modify or improvise as needed.

You can sex plants within 3 weeks from sprouting using the presexing technique. Search this if you are interested. You can put a paper bag over one branch, changing it daily to simulate flowering light schedules. Within a week or two you will be able to sex it. I never do that. I sex after going to bud. I toss the males and keep the best females for mothers.

Yes you can separate the plants like that. I don't see a reason why not. I would grow them all the same under some fluoros for three weeks, then go to bud just long enough to get rid of the males. Bud the rest or keep out a couple to revert to veg for mothers. You can also bud all the females and revert them to veg after harvest.

[Opie Yutts]

I'm pretty hesitant about the places on the web to get seeds from. Kind of scared about ordering...not getting ripped off but getting caught.

The very worst possible thing that would happen is you would get sent a notice saying that your package has been seized at customs, and that's it except you loose your $150. That is rare. Many people regularly buy seeds over the internet and have never had a problem. If you are worried, get a prepaid credit card in a fake name, or send a money order. I recommend Marijuana Seeds (cannabis, pot) shipped worldwide (http://www.kindseed.com).

[Opie Yutts]

Oh and I'm confused. Should I use the square pots and lay them in the container or should I use a lid, cut out circular holes for net pots and let them dangle?

Shape of pots is irrelevant, except square ones utilize space a little better. You need to have your roots dangling in water unless they are getting sprayed, dripped on or flooded regularly. It's best for power outages too.

[Opie Yutts]

I guess right now is as good time as anyto order some since the holiday season shoould keep the postal inspectors pretty busy. Any suggestions? Looking for a fun happy long high.

Great point!

I suggest seed sellers sites (say it fast) to get an idea of what kind of weed does what kind of smoke. You also influence the type of high (happy fun) by when you harvest. I really enjoy my AK-47. Kush is great, so is White Widow, Northern Lights.. on and on. They say in general, indicas grow shorter and bushier, and have a stronger high. Sativas grow taller and skinnier, and the buds are less dense.

[piglet420]

Thanks for all the input Jerry and Opie. These seeds are not doing anything so I'm going to abandon this thread and wait until I get everything in order until I begin a new crop.

Thanks.