Why are a lot of people who smoke marijuana/do psychedelics atheists?

[phx123]

This has always bothered me, as I consider my work with marijuana and psychedelics a very real personal, spiritual and intellectual transformative process. It has me much more lucid about the realms of perception, the nature of the universe and the creation behind it (God).
Why do people like myself feel the presence of the ultimate oneness which is God and some issue a blind eye to it and do not feel the same way? I am ever so certain that there is consciousness, energy and a life after our physical being dies and a divine 'being' greater than us, and marijuana/psychedelics help me realize this in a much more direct and profound way.

[biggmoneyme]

I smoke a lot of weed and also indulge in psychedelics and I'm Christian. I don't think that them doing marijuana or any other drug has a lot with them being atheist, well it could.

[meatw4d]

imo, christians as a whole might be considered more conservative and therefore might not be as likely to smoke pot.

[Purple Banana]

Simply because we don't believe in a theistic being doesn't mean we're unable to feel one with ourselves or nature. That's why psychedelic use in general is also very personal, because it's not only spiritual enlightenment, but intellectual enlightment and emotional discoveries. I don't need to believe in a deity in order to learn something from an insight or revelation, it simply occurs.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Drugs or no drugs, there have always been people, like myself, who were born with minds that cannot believe in deities or anything supernatural.

[Innominate]

I'm an Agnostic, and I've seen religion as a benefit and threat to society, however, it has brought human expansion so pleasantly far, but the atrocities have been boundless in the past and they will be in the future. But why should those who don't even believe in the spoken God, become the victims of religious hate through death, murder, rape, and secrecy? I'm a spiritualist and a man of life, enduring a difficult chapter of our planet, and seek to see truth in life. If I die at the hands of religion, all sides take the blame, but I consider this long threatening creation the great obstacle of my life to accept as natural.

I've been Agnostic since I can remember, only my thoughts on atheism vs. religion was much obscure before I started cannabis.

I've never been a junkie, God Forbid. :D

[Metaphor]

im an atheist but then again ive always been, way before weed or psychedelics [lsd and mushrooms just further confirmed my 'atheist creed']. If anything i think its the other way around. Possibly more atheists tend to gravitate toward weed because they dont have that central pillar of religion that their lifes revolve around. The idea of having a 'god' looking over and judging you might deter people from smoking weed. Im not sure though. I know plenty of people that are religous and smoke weed, I know the fiendiest of fiends that are devout catholic. I know atheists that smoke and trip.
I am pretty sure that your not going to get a clear answer though, thats just too vast of a generalization to make.

[phx123]

So psychedelic experiences only induce spiritual experiences depending on your mindset?
It's amazing the variation between experiences depending on different types of set and setting.

[Purple Banana]

I've never had anything 'spiritual' per say when it comes to psychedelic states, but that might be just me? The only thing close to spirituality is feeling one with the earth, or appreciating the complexity of nature from a scientific standpoint. It's interesting learning about physics, nature, biology, astronomy, ect when you're baked. Religious people might appreciate it for the fact it exists because they believe a god made it, but truly understanding the minute mechanisms of how nature works from a scientific standpoint is far more rewarding :)

[phx123]

I've never had anything 'spiritual' per say when it comes to psychedelic states, but that might be just me? The only thing close to spirituality is feeling one with the earth, or appreciating the complexity of nature from a scientific standpoint. It's interesting learning about physics, nature, biology, astronomy, ect when you're baked. Religious people might appreciate it for the fact it exists because they believe a god made it, but truly understanding the minute mechanisms of how nature works from a scientific standpoint is far more rewarding :)

You don't think that feeling of being one with the earth is spiritual? I do.

[Metaphor]

truly understanding the minute mechanisms of how nature works from a scientific standpoint is far more rewarding :)

amen!

[Innominate]

I've never had anything 'spiritual' per say when it comes to psychedelic states, but that might be just me? The only thing close to spirituality is feeling one with the earth, or appreciating the complexity of nature from a scientific standpoint. It's interesting learning about physics, nature, biology, astronomy, ect when you're baked. Religious people might appreciate it for the fact it exists because they believe a god made it, but truly understanding the minute mechanisms of how nature works from a scientific standpoint is far more rewarding :)
The greatest truth about what this website is all about, right here.

[phx123]

truly understanding the minute mechanisms of how nature works from a scientific standpoint is far more rewarding :)


amen!

Can't you have both? Understanding the minute mechanisms of how nature works and also realizing that an all-powerful god created it in all its perfection?

[Purple Banana]

No, because we can actively see and observe these natural processes. It's simply much more rewarding.

Why does it bother you that people have psychedelic experiences who do not believe in a deity? Should we not be allowed to experience it? Everyone experiences psychedelics in different states of mind, why should this deity issue be any different?

[phx123]

No, because we can actively see and observe these natural processes. It's simply much more rewarding.

Why does it bother you that people have psychedelic experiences who do not believe in a deity? Should we not be allowed to experience it? Everyone experiences psychedelics in different states of mind, why should this deity issue be any different?

Just because you can actively see and observe the natural processes means a god didn't create it? That doesn't make any sense.

I'm just curious... most, if not all, psychedelics come from different cultures/tribes who use it for spiritual purposes. It seems many have 'westernized' it though to mean nothing.
I never said you shouldn't be allowed to experience it. This experience is something built-in that every person can access.

The way spirituality is described is
"Having to do with deep feelings and beliefs, including a personâ??s sense of peace, purpose, connection to others and beliefs about the meaning of life."

That seems very similar to my experiences with cannabis. Deep feelings and beliefs (much deeper than normal thinking). A sense of inner peace (thoughts aligned, content), purpose (in your face reality -- everything is more purposeful), connection to others (as you said, feeling one with earth, connection to earth, plants, living things, nature, etc) and beliefs about the meaning of life (I OFTEN go into deep philosophical thinking about the meaning of life.. there is no way of knowing for sure, but you can have beliefs and theories)

I'm just wondering if people experience something similar to that spiritual experience above, or if experiences are so completely different with other people, or if we are simply misinterpreting the definition of spirituality.

I'm not talking about a deity.. I've never encountered one on any of my experiences (although I think it is certainly possible with certain plants.. especially DMT, on high enough dose, the right set and setting and mindset -- going in really deep throughout it all). And I'm not saying that the deity is God.. I think God is all around us, in nature, the universe and in our selves.

[Cannabis-Sativa]

They went into the experience much more close minded is what i would assume, when you enter the experience with an open mind you will get much more profound effects.

[Purple Banana]

You can be spiritual while being atheist though, I really don't see why it's an issue to believe in a god, otherwise you're not spiritual?

[phx123]

They went into the experience much more close minded is what i would assume, when you enter the experience with an open mind you will get much more profound effects.

That is what I was thinking. Certainly those who just smoke pot and watch TV or listen to rap music are not getting the full effects of cannabis. Cultural diversion from what is real, as Terence McKenna would put it.

But I'm still unsure.. does that suggest that those who are atheists/do not believe in anything simply have a close mind?

[phx123]

You can be spiritual while being atheist though, I really don't see why it's an issue to believe in a god, otherwise you're not spiritual?

I don't really see those being compatible. If you are spiritual you believe in a spirit other than the physical body. Atheism just means when you die, you're dead.. absolutely nothing, correct? These direct spiritual experiences while on cannabis or on psychedelics to my are almost evidence that there is a greater being than myself and that I am apart of a spiritual realm/dimension.

[1puff2puff3puff]

This discussing is also in another website (Rollitup), but it is posed "Do you believe in God? In poll form it was 29% yes, 19% higher power , not a Christian God, 29% no and 8 undecided. Its turned into a bunch of people trying to chane one another belief, with athiest giving links to big bang theories and such. I myself am a Christian, and i believe that growing has made me feel closer with God, and the earth I love it, its wonderful!!!

[Purple Banana]

I certainly don't have a closed mind; I used to be Christian, but after some serious soul searching, I turned away from it. I live my life by my own rules, I have very few regrets, I respect people enormously, I'm very spontaneous, and I love learning about everything and anything- History, science, philosophy, medicine, physics, english, everything.

It is because I rejected the life that Christianity asked from me- the Bible as a set of rules, ect. and I find I maintain the general peace-emitting figure that Jesus is supposed to be, I simply believe he was a good role model and nothing more.

There are far too many confusing passages in the Bible that contradict, and I think following the Bible and rejecting everything else seems close-minded if anything else. I'm not saying all Christians are this way- most aren't, but I still like to have full individual freedom from worrying if I'm 'sinning' or not.

I can simply connect directly with an object without the middleman, ad appreciate it for what it is, not who made it, if anyone. I can have these feelings.

[phx123]

This discussing is also in another website (Rollitup), but it is posed "Do you believe in God? In poll form it was 29% yes, 19% higher power , not a Christian God, 29% no and 8 undecided. Its turned into a bunch of people trying to chane one another belief, with athiest giving links to big bang theories and such. I myself am a Christian, and i believe that growing has made me feel closer with God, and the earth I love it, its wonderful!!!

Yeah... basically I'm wondering how those that presumably have the same/similiar spiritual experience that I have with cannabis/psychedelic can just shrug off any spiritual meaning from it whatsoever. And for me that direct spiritual experience is DIRECTLY related to a higher power/God. It doesn't seem one can be spiritual and not believe in a higher power.. it almost seems like like a contradiction of sorts.

[Purple Banana]

Spirituality for me is more about being in tune with myself, my body, and my surroundings. It's just always been that way, I've never really felt a divine presence, and I'm just as happy without that higher power presence. Hard to explain, really. I grew up in a very scientific exploratory household, and I simply could not fathom the idea of everything being created and managed by any god. It just seemed unreasonable to me.

[phx123]

I can simply connect directly with an object without the middleman, ad appreciate it for what it is, not who made it, if anyone. I can have these feelings.

Interesting. That almost to me, seems like you're leaving out a part of what it is. When I do that, I cannot differentiate myself with the two. When I think of what it is, I think it is a creation, and thus who made it.. I get that immediate connection. It (nature for example), is simply too beautiful, too complex, too perfect to just be something that is basically nothing, just something that is and sporadically popped up with no significance.

[1puff2puff3puff]

Like you said PHX..some people arent willing to fully open their minds, i for one cant wake up every morning seeing a beautiful sun, and everything around it and not know that there is more to our existance. Purple, the Bible reads one way, people INTREPRET how ever they please some for personal gain some for power, what you need to do is find a person you can trust and have them break down the true meaning of Gods Word.

[phx123]

Spirituality for me is more about being in tune with myself, my body, and my surroundings. It's just always been that way, I've never really felt a divine presence, and I'm just as happy without that higher power presence. Hard to explain, really. I grew up in a very scientific exploratory household, and I simply could not fathom the idea of everything being created and managed by any god. It just seemed unreasonable to me.

Hmm... well I would consider being in tune with my self, body and having those direct connections with my surroundings a divine presence in and of itself.

[Unknown American]

Most pot smokers I have known in the past believed in god. I am an agnostic leaning towards the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[phx123]

Like you said PHX..some people arent willing to fully open their minds, i for one cant wake up every morning seeing a beautiful sun, and everything around it and not know that there is more to our existance. Purple, the Bible reads one way, people INTREPRET how ever they please some for personal gain some for power, what you need to do is find a person you can trust and have them break down the true meaning of Gods Word.

Well, good point.
What do you think about this Purple Banana? Do you think if you cannot open your mind to something greater you are essentially closing your mind to this sort of thinking and having a closed mind about this?

[Purple Banana]

I simply don't associate those things with a god or higher power. That's just the way I am; people may argue my logic, but in the end, I'm still going to believe what I believe; and I wouldn't try to convince you towards my beliefs; if you feel the way you do, I'm all for it, but it seems like you said a more personal issue.

The point you're trying to get across it seems is that you're making the argument that I am close-minded when it comes to these types of issues; I am fully willing to hear others viewpoints on these sorts of things, and you could certaily be right, but after carefully reviewing each bit of information regarding religion, I have decided that my belief structure fits me best, and no other. It's not being close-minded, simply choosing the most personally reasonable idea.

[FUNKNUGGET]

Wow this is an excellent thread...


Anyways, I think the answer is quite simple: you see past the bullshit in life; god seems like an imaginary being (which he is, in my opinion)

I have always been an atheist... and many intense fungus trips confirmed that...

I havent tripped for a while, but I know I always have major epiphanies about my life whenever i indulge... I go into my own world, deep into my own mind where it is impossible to go without certain substances...

[phx123]

Most pot smokers I have known in the past believed in god. I am an agnostic leaning towards the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Yeah... a lot of people do believe in god as well.

I guess it makes sense what someone said earlier... it is more so what you believed before you've had these experiences. I suppose I just find that kind of strange because I consider these vision plants spiritual tools... Whether you are not opening yourselves up enough is a different, perhaps more difficult question.

[Purple Banana]

My cousin gets extreme intellectual insights when he smokes; he's an architecht. I don't think he's ever had anything BUT ideas come out of a psychedelic experience, I'll have to ask him.

[phx123]

Wow this is an excellent thread...


Anyways, I think the answer is quite simple: you see past the bullshit in life; god seems like an imaginary being (which he is, in my opinion)

Yeah, well, I guess that is maybe the thing... for me, god does not seem like an imaginary being... for me he is more REAL than ever!

I don't know if 'he' is the correct word, because I don't really know what God exactly is. Is there a name for me? I typically say I'm spiritual but do not affiliate myself with any religion...

And yea, this is a great thread.. I am learning a lot

[phx123]

I think many people talk about what they see, what they gather from these experiences... but I don't really see many people talk about what they feel during these experiences.. and I think that may be one of the more important things. Perhaps its just more harder to put into words.

[1puff2puff3puff]

No one trying to change your opinon, I am just stating mine. , I know God gave us Free Will, and that also goes with accepting Him or not cause He wants us to do that freely....

[EbelEyes]

Simply because we don't believe in a theistic being doesn't mean we're unable to feel one with ourselves or nature. That's why psychedelic use in general is also very personal, because it's not only spiritual enlightenment, but intellectual enlightment and emotional discoveries. I don't need to believe in a deity in order to learn something from an insight or revelation, it simply occurs.

You just explained what I was going to explain! :)

[phx123]

What if someone said God isn't a deity... God is you, God is Nature, God is the Universe... God is everything?
Then would you say you believed in God?

[Unknown American]

What if someone said God isn't a deity... God is you, God is Nature, God is the Universe... God is everything?
Then would you say you believed in God?

I would believe that.

[Purple Banana]

No, because that's not what I believe. I think nature is independent from any higher power.

[phx123]

No, because that's not what I believe. I think nature is independent from any higher power.

So what if I said the Universe is God? Obviously we know the universe is EXTREMELY powerful, and thus could be considered a higher power.

[Unknown American]

But just because I might believe nature and everything around including us might be the god force, does not mean we have eternal life.

We die and rot in the ground and become fertilizer.

Why do I want to break out and sing "Circle of Life" from the Lion King?

[Purple Banana]

Haha! I love that movie... Best metaphors for LIFE.

Asante sana squashed banana a wewe buida abada!
It means you are a baboon. And I'm not! Heheheheee...

Why do we have to label everything as 'god?' Why can't we just say 'The Universe is the Universe?'

[Unknown American]

For me the Universe is god. It has its own agenda and purpose. We seem to be a microcosm of it. That does not mean anything real important but if the force of all that is, is god, we are a part of it.

But I could be totally wrong. I am okay with being wrong.

[CultureCherryPopper]

By your own definition phx123, having spirituality does not entail the belief of a spirit at all. I feel close to nature and feel humans can truly have a strong connection/bond, but I have a hard time believing a singular being concocted the world, let alone any being depicted my mere men. I feel the more we learn, the more we really don't know, but the between ignorance and enlightenment is narrowing, if only gradually. I believe that religion or spirituality is man's insecurities and fear of the unknown grasping at straws in an infinite dispenser, and our answers may only be found after these mortal lives. By no means am I exempt from these thoughts, and they certainly become more active and vivid when smoking or using psychedelics, but they are merely what-ifs and musings from an agnostic. The closest I come to truly being spiritual is holding a young seedling in my hand.

[phx123]

We die and rot in the ground and become fertilizer.

Certainly all major religions and people who believe in an afterlife believe this. There is no doubt that the physical body rots in the ground. The question is of whether or not the non-physical aspects of your body/self (ie: soul, spirit, energy) live on.

[Unknown American]

Certainly all major religions and people who believe in an afterlife believe this. There is no doubt that the physical body rots in the ground. The question is of whether or not the non-physical aspects of your body/self (ie: soul, spirit, energy) live on.

Your memory lives on in other people. Other than that I assume "That's all folks!"

That gives me great peace.

[phx123]

Hmm.. well, you guys made a lot of good points to counter some of my arguments and I appreciate that. You all definitely got me thinking... I'll try to think some more about this and respond tomorrow.

[phx123]

This is also something to think about:

Is There Life After Death? An Emminent International Cardiologist Believes He Can PROVE IT! | ClickPress (http://www.clickpress.com/releases/Detailed/9278005cp.shtml)
I think we can learn a lot about death by looking at near death experiences

Also, what do you guys think of this argument?

"If everything in our world is made up of energy, matter, ideas, etc, then consciousness itself must be energy. While in the normal waking state, consciousness may be present on the physical plane, but in other states (dreaming, meditation, etc)consciousness exists there as well, proving it isn't just connected to physical everyday reality. So we when die, if consciousness continues to be energy, and therefore can never "disappear", then in death it is only freed from our bodies, moving onto another plane."

[slipknotpsycho]

sure it's been said but, simply becuase doing mind altering substances and not believing fall into the same catagorey..... open mindness...

[Nightcrewman]

I don't think atheism and smoking MJ can be linked anymore than bungee jumping or knitting can, if someone carried out a survey I think you might find that there is not a disproportionate number of atheists who smoke in relation to atheists who partake in any other recreation.
I hope this makes sense.

NCM

[sarah louise]

You know it might just be that not everyone believes in a creator or that dope is a path to enlightenment and so, don't necessarily equate the "yeah...wow man" aspect of marijuana intoxication as a 'touched by god experience'.

It's all about interpretation. You use god as a vehicle to interpret your experiences, I do not. John Berger and Peter Luckmann wrote a lovely book called 'The Social Construction of Reality', if you are interested why people don't interpret their experiences the way you do, this book is a good place to start.

Different people interpret the same experience through their own histories and beliefs eg ~

I have a good friend who joined an evangelical church...she loved it and truly believes that she has experienced the presence of the holy spirit during 'praise' nights.

I went to a praise night, there is a lot of music, singing, swaying and clapping. It feels good, but I can get the same feeling of elation crowd surfing in the moshe pit and no one insists I call it 'god'. :jointsmile:

[Reefer Rogue]

I am athiest, I smoke cannabis. It has opened my mind. Open your eyes, embrace existence while we can. We have free will, we are not predetermined with one function for humanity, no specific human nature. God does not give us morality, we create our own morality through the choices we make, through what we value. If you believe in 'God' then why not Allah, or Budha, or Zeus, or Odin? People believe their beliefs are correct without exploring any other possibilities. They cherry pick from the bible. Religion is not logical. We are rational beings. Humans created God, not vice versa.

[sarah louise]

I agree with your conclusions, but I didn't smoke dope to reach them. Maybe introspection comes more easily for some, whilst others need a catalyst like cannabis.

Who knows? Who cares? The mix bowl is empty, it must be time for bed. :hippy:

[FlyGuyOU]

I think the biggest issue concerning the topic of 'spirituality, higher power, God, yadda yadda' is that it's constricted by language. Putting words to abstract thoughts doesn't make them real. People make the mistake of putting a word to something, and then creating a defination of the word. Then they go and try and force said defination on other people. Arguments start up and nobody really gets anywhere.
I've been thinking about this honestly for several years, and while I believe I've made considerable progress on finding out about God, I don't think I can tell or explain my beliefs to anyone because I don't grasp the truth enough to box it in w/ words.

[Gundari]

The main flaw in your "argument" (it's not really an argument i just cant think of an appropriate word to described it) is that everyone has the same set of values and beliefs that you do.

Hindus, Buddhists, Christians all have every different meanings for what "god" is. Spirituality is pretty much unique to everyone. Think of it like traveling, say you fly from the east coast to the west coast and I drive, we're going to have different travel experiences but our final destination is still the same. Simply because someone does not experience it the same way you do doesn't mean that they are experiencing a diluted form of what you perceive to be enlightenment. Perception is a very relative thing.

Personally I am an atheist / agnostic. I don't believe in a god or an afterlife, but I have no way to disprove either and I have no way to prove how we got here on this planet. When I get high, which is a rare thing these days, I feel completely at peace, my brain stops racing around my head at 2 billion miles per-hour and grinds to a halt. I gain the ability to step back and examine my life and the simple things in it that I over look on a daily basis. I see incredible beauty in sunsets even though I know that it's only caused by our atmosphere bending and filtering out most of the different spectrums of light to only allow the red in. To me thats true enlightenment, being able to step out of yourself and see yourself for what you truly are and appreciate the simple things that nature put there for us to observe and enjoy.

One of the most spiritual experiences I've ever had was watching the Aurora Borealis dance through the night sky while I lit out of my brain. I know that it's simply caused by the way particles enter our atmosphere at certain areas with the influence of the earths magnetic field, but still it was the most beautiful and spiritual thing I've ever experienced.

(after reading over this again it may sound like I'm attempting to attack you, I have no intention of attacking you or defaming your ideas. Simply just wish to express my own as I feel that the free exchange of ideas is one of the best ways to encourage personal growth in ones self and others).

[palerider7777]

I know the fiendiest of fiends that are devout catholic...............lmao

[Purple Banana]

Studies show that a lot of so-called near death experiences is just a chain reaction of neurotransmitters combined with epinepherine and lack of oxygen that intterupts normal brain patterns, and your subconcious may provide images from memory.

Skeptic magazine showed that a lot of paranormal experiences can be almost exactly replicated (i.e. feeling of a presence, hearing noises, hallucinations, ect) can be caused by fluctuations in brain chemistry caused by magnetic fields.

[Hardcore Newbie]

"If everything in our world is made up of energy, matter, ideas, etc, then consciousness itself must be energy. While in the normal waking state, consciousness may be present on the physical plane, but in other states (dreaming, meditation, etc)consciousness exists there as well, proving it isn't just connected to physical everyday reality. So we when die, if consciousness continues to be energy, and therefore can never "disappear", then in death it is only freed from our bodies, moving onto another plane."I've seen similar arguments before, and to many people they're very convincing. But, we know that energy can not be created, nor destroyed, it can only change forms. If consciousness is indeed a form of energy, it is dissipated just like any other energy in our bodies, and we slowly become a cold dead corpse when energy is no longer introduced into our bodies.

But to the topical question at hand... I'm not sure that atheists are more apt to smoking weed, but if it's indeed the case, it might be due to the fact that there's no sky daddy above them becoming upset with their harmless actions.

[TheGreenBuddy]

Thats the way i feel man!

yeh i smoke weed everyday, and like to do hallucinagens too. Spirtual experiences.

Well, im agnostic too though. but who knows?

[Dream of the iris]

Using drugs and finding God are two different things. You cannot know God through drugs, as they are just an attachment as is the question "does God exist". To truly find God, you must detach yourself from all drugs and all forms of thought, including questions regarding God. Drugs can guide you on the path, but sooner or later they must be abandoned if you are to truly find Source.

[OnionsOfLove]

In response to the original poster..

People have the ultimate say as to how they use their drugs. Some people will use their drugs to help further their spiritual understanding while some people will use their drugs with their sex and rock'n'roll.

The problem comes into focus when people start telling other people what to do.

edit: I forget that this board doesnt allow edits after five minutes so I will say now that I agree for the most part with what everyone else has posted. Its a fairly easy issue.

[foodsy]

Simply because we don't believe in a theistic being doesn't mean we're unable to feel one with ourselves or nature. That's why psychedelic use in general is also very personal, because it's not only spiritual enlightenment, but intellectual enlightenment and emotional discoveries. I don't need to believe in a deity in order to learn something from an insight or revelation, it simply occurs.

Exactly. I don't get why people think everything is tied to some deity, that is scientifically impossible and logically implausible.

Spirituality is wholly separate from a god or higher power. They are two absolutely different things. Spirituality deals with an inner-self (Or your conscious and subconscious). A God or higher power is an unconnected deity. To reiterate, all a god or higher power is, is an unconnected, unrelated deity. Buddhist monks are technically atheists, but they have a STRONG sense of spirituality.