dilution sticky may be a little innaccurate

[primoD]

I took my test before the dilution sticky but just to let you know i stopped drinking water about 2 hours before my test. I think drinking 1 hour before will cause a diluted fail result! i'd say stop drinking water about 2 hours before and take baby sips in between until the time of your test!
:pimp:

[FakeBoobsRule]

I think drinking 1 hour before will cause a diluted fail result!
You think? Does that mean you don't have the results or you didn't test for validity or what? Also, you didn't follow the dilution sticky because like the second or third post, N2 suggests to use a sports drink to prevent dilution. So by drinking water you really aren't listening to the sticky. What other changes did you make in the method?

[primoD]

i also ate a salmon steak instead of red meat which is also another source of creatine. I started cleaning my system at 7:30am up until the test. i drank about half a gallon from 7:30 to 2:30 (test time). starting from 10:30 i drank only about 60-70 ounces of water

[KNOTME66]

Personally I don't think you are drinking enough within a short time frame in order to "load up" on the fluids to cause a dilute. I have found that if I was to drink 16oz of sports drink within the first 15 minutes of diluting and then EIGHT (8) oz every 15 minutes thereafter until I start voiding clear. Once I start voiding clear I then start drinking enough to cover the "loss" of my voids. If I think I voided 4 ozs, then I drink about 4 ozs...etc. I think the object is to PUSH fluids through your body in a short time frame in order to lower the THC count in your body.

[primoD]

SIMPLE WAY TO BEAT URINE TESTS -- JUST DRINK WATER

Report from American Academy of Forensic Sciences

Forensic Drug Abuse Advisor, Vol. 6, Issue 3, March 1994

Workplace drug testing programs can be foiled by adulterating the specimen, and the adulterants can be added inside or outside of the body. Last summer it became apparent that many peole were cheating by adding solutions of concentrated glutaraldehyde (Urinaid) to their voided sample. New data, presented in February at the annual meeting of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences (AAFS), suggests that there is a simpler way to foil urine screening tests: drink lots of water.

Dr. Edward Cone of the Addiction Research Center (ARC) in Baltimore, described the results of a study he had undertaken at the request of Donna Smith, Acting Director of the Department of Transportation's (DOT) Office of Drug Enforcement. Smith was concerned that advertising claims for some herbal teas and "internal cleansing" agents might actually be true. Cone was at first skeptical, but, as he reported at the AAFS meeting, the study was a "sleeper."

Cone set up a series of experiments designed to assess the effect of various measures on "in vivo adulteration." Two of the most popular "teas" were chosen for study; Naturally Klean Herbal Tea" and "Golden Seal" root capsules. Healthy drug-free volunteers with a history of recent drug use were recruited for the study. They were housed in a closed ward for six weeks. The participants were tested under a number of different protocols during that six week period.

At 9:00 AM on the morning of Day One the study subjects smoked a standardized marijuana cigarette (3.58% THC). On Day Three they snorted 40 mg of cocaine. Twenty three hours after each drug was given, they drank one of the following combinations: (1) "Naturally Klean Herbal Tea" in one gallon of water, (2) one gallon of water without any "cleansing agent" (3) one gallon of water with 50 mg of hydrochlorothiadize (a diuretic), (4) four "Golden Seal" capsules and one gallon of water, or (5) twelve ounces of water. Each participant was tested under each protocol and all of the urine was collected.

The urine specimens were then tested by EMIT II assay for cannabinoids at a 50 ng / ml cutoff, and cocaine at a 300 ng / ml cutoff. Specific gravity and creatinine content was measured for each sample, and the two indicators were found to co-vary almost identically. Just drinking 12 ounces of water was enough to cause a significant decrease in both specific gravity and creatinine, but not enough to cause a negative test response. For example, urine cannabinoids levels which were higher than 10,000 ng / ml dropped to the low 100's after drinking 12 ounces of water. After drinking a gallon of water, with or without one of the "cleansing agents" added, it only took an hour for the specific gravity to drop to less than 1.005.

When one gallon of water was drunk, not only did specific gravity fall to very low levels (creatinine<20, and specific gravity <1.003), but the marijuana assay turned negative and stayed that way, even after specific gravity levels had returned to normal! The cocaine tests turned negative for a few hours, but then turned positive again. The same results were observed whether or not tea was used, however, when diuretics were given, the test for both cannabinoids and cocaine turned negative and stayed that way.

Cone concluded that "drug test outcome is highly susceptible to water dilution; and the effects of dilution are reflected concurrently in creatinine and specific gravity measures."

COMMENT: This observation will cause some consternation in the drug testing community, and create more problems than glutaraldehyde and Urinaid adulteration did. It is not that difficult to develop detection strategies for chemicals like glutaraldehyde. That may explain why the practice is already starting to disappear, but setting standards for dilution will be much more difficult. Eventually, it may be necessary to measure drug / creatinine ratios to rule out dilution. Since tests may remain negative even after the specific gravity returns toward normal, it appears that low specific gravities cannot be relied upn to reveal "adulterated" specimens.

[tp82007]

Nice date on that article.. Only 13 years old.

I don't see how this necessarily proves your point other than a dr. saying "just drink water" on the title. Although very well written, I'll still trust some others on the sport drink solution.

[primoD]

how has drug testing changed in the past 13 years? they tested for SG and creatine levels back than as well. testing methods have not changed at all since the date of this article. fyi

[FakeBoobsRule]

That's a horrible study because it never gives the number of subjects. For a scientific test to be valid, they need to give the number of test subjects because you need to be able to do statistical analysis to see if there is any significant statistical deviation. However, it does show one good thing, drinking a gallon of water is not what the dilution sticky is about. Primo, I don't know what you are out to prove but I have found inconsitancies in your story and you aren't following the dilution sticky so why are you out to give bad advice to people. The dilution sticky doesn't recommend water, it doesn't recommend a gallon of fluid, and the study from 13 years ago is trying to get people to switch from ranges to ratios. The study also suggests that dilution is effective but detectable. So what is it you are out to try to tell people?


I took my test before the dilution sticky but just to let you know i stopped drinking water about 2 hours before my test. I think drinking 1 hour before will cause a diluted fail result! i'd say stop drinking water about 2 hours before and take baby sips in between until the time of your test!
:pimp:


i also ate a salmon steak instead of red meat which is also another source of creatine. I started cleaning my system at 7:30am up until the test. i drank about half a gallon from 7:30 to 2:30 (test time). starting from 10:30 i drank only about 60-70 ounces of water

Ok here is where your inconsitencies start. You say you drank about a half gallon of water between 7:30 to 2:30, you stopped drinking water 2 hours before the test, but you drank about 60-70 ounces of water after 10:30. 64 ounces is a half gallon. You started drinking at 7:30 but after 10:30 you drank a half gallon? So, if you stopped 2 hours before your test at 2:30, in between 10:30 and 12:30 you drank 60-70 ounces of water which 64 ounces is a half gallon. Do you see what I'm getting at? It doesn't sound like you kept an accurate account of your fluid intake. Also, the dilution sticky doesn't recommend the amount of fluid you are talking about and it recommends sports drinks to help with specific gravity.

Trust me, drug tests have changed in 13 years. Creatinine clearance wasn't a standard validity check for most tests until about 5 years ago. Immunoassay has changed. Cutoff levels have changed. Checks for adulterants have changed. So many things that I don't have time for it right now.

[primoD]

ok lets just forget about it. Me drinking water at 7:30 was way to early so i won't even include that in my report. Lets just say i drank about 60-70 ounces of water 2 hours before my test and took some detox pills about 2.5 hours before my test. I also ate aat salmon steak and red meat 2-3 days before my test. Drinking 3-4 hours before the test, as the dilution sticky states should be cut dwon to 1-2 hours before the test. drinking 3-4 horus before the test you run the risk of failing your UA with a positive!!!

that is all i'm trying to state. there are many others ways to pass your test without folliwn ghte dilutino sticky!

[Afrokilla]

More inconsistancies. Can I handle this one?


i also ate a salmon steak instead of red meat which is also another source of creatine. I started cleaning my system at 7:30am up until the test. i drank about half a gallon from 7:30 to 2:30 (test time). starting from 10:30 i drank only about 60-70 ounces of water


ok lets just forget about it. Me drinking water at 7:30 was way to early so i won't even include that in my report. Lets just say i drank about 60-70 ounces of water 2 hours before my test and took some detox pills about 2.5 hours before my test. I also ate aat salmon steak and red meat 2-3 days before my test. Drinking 3-4 hours before the test, as the dilution sticky states should be cut dwon to 1-2 hours before the test. drinking 3-4 horus before the test you run the risk of failing your UA with a positive!!!

that is all i'm trying to state. there are many others ways to pass your test without folliwn ghte dilutino sticky!


You ate Slamon instead of red meat, and then "lets just say" you ate Salmon and red meat. Nice report. And with the "lets just say" crap. Not buying it.

[killerweed420]

I think the dillution stickys are pretty well laid out. They will not work for eveybody depending on your thc intake and body type but if you follow them your risk for negetive dillute will be greatly reduced.
I am curious about the hydrochlorothiazide that was quoted as used in the testm as I take that for my high blood pressure and am curious if that is one of the reasons I always test clean about 3 days after smoking heavily 3 days in a row,