Ph is rising, can't seem to stabilize

[cmasfca]

For the past 36 hours now I have had my clones in my aeroponic system.

For the first 12-14 hours or so I did not have any meters yet and so the ph was around 8.6 and the ppm around 400.

I have been keeping the ph between 5.2-5.8 but in the past 6 hours it rose to 6.7!

I have been reading my eyes out of my skull it seems and I have found that my filter mounted on my tap might be contributing to a high ph due to the water softening process, so I have put a gallon of tap water plus 5ml / gal of liquid earth's vigor and grow.

The ppm right now is at 690 and the ph is at 5.6.

Is this highly volatile ph dangerous to my plants if I can keep it within 5.0-6.0?

I have been following MVP's thread about his grow and I am thinking if the ph does not stabilize as I flush using plain tap water I am going to switch to completely RO and 300 ppm of calmag. Does that sound about right?

It is hard to diagnose these issues by looking at the plants, because when I picked them up they already had some discoloration and wilting; but I have attached a couple pictures just in case someone might spot something I missed.

My girlfriend says I need to be patient with them, let them adapt to 400 hps and nutrients and whatnot but moving from flouros to hps shouldn't cause this constant rising in ph, should it?

Thanks for the comments :)

[stinkyattic]

With fresh RW and hydroton, an initial pH rise is normal. Keep checking and lowering- it should stabilize within a few days. Try for 5.8 as a goal. 5.0 is a little low; a working range in the upper 5s is safer.

[cmasfca]

Thanks for the quick reply stinky; I've been watching my meter for about an hour and a half now and the ph has stayed at 5.6. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come :)

Would a guess that the clones are about 3 weeks old sound accurate? There are roots coming out most sides of the rockwool, about 1-2 inches in some places.

Today I am going to be working on setting up a screen of chicken wire about 10 inches from the planting medium for a SCRoG when the ph has stabilized.

For now, I need to figure out how to flush my system. 15 gallons is a couple too many for me to be hauling the damn thing down the hall to the sink to drain. I was thinking using my level indicator as a siphon and adding a gallon as it drains out. Whadda ya think?

[PharmaCan]

You really need to do some more studying about pH, nutrients and mj growing in general.

To begin with, your pH target should be around 5.6-5.7, in that vicinity - 5.0 is way too acidic. Secondly, you have way too much light on those young plants. They need to adapt to the stronger light. I hope you have that hps a good distance away from your clones.

As far as your nutes go, right now you should be at about 1/4 strength, and I doubt that 690 ppm fits that criteria. I've never heard of using CalMag+ as a stand-alone nute. Why don't you make things simple and follow a tried and true regimen of nutrients instead of trying to reinvent the wheel on your first try?

Your clones are probably only about 10 days old judging from your description, and they need to adapt to life outside the cloner. If I had brought those clones home, I would have put them under flouros with r/o water and B1 + a tiny amount of Superthrive. After a couple days with the B1 I'd switch to 1/4 strength nutes for 3-4 days, then 1/2 strength for 4-5 days then up to full nutes, if the plants look strong enough to stand it. I'd give the plants at least one week under the flouros before switching to stronger light.

Your plants are going to be like young babies for a week or two and you need to treat them as such. Giving them a lot of light and a lot of nutrients at this point in time will do more to harm them than help them.

PC :smokin:

[cmasfca]

PharmaCan,

Thank you for your informative post. I will be sure to keep the ph around 5.6-5.7 from now on.

The HPS is right around 30 inches (76cm) from the planting medium and about 20-22 inches (53cm) from the top of the leaves. Does the light need to be raised? I can raise it another 6.5 inches (16.5cm) easily using the chain but I could get another 3-4 inches (9cm) if I needed to.

As far as nutes go, is 1/4 strength in reference to the recommended dosage on the bottles or is that referring to a total of about 1300, divided by 4?

My tap water has a base of around 420 ppm, so I have a total of around 270 ppm of nutes in it. According to Diagnosing Marijuana Cannabis Plant Abuse Problems Charts and Photos (http://www.onlinepot.org/grow/diagnosingplantgrowingproblems.htm)
water with over 200 ppm starting out is too hard (too much Ca) which can lead to a mg def. My starting water is 400+, so I need to lower it somehow. Referencing onlinepot.org again, it says that using 1/4 teaspoon of epsom salt per gallon of water will reduce the lockout. What do you think?

Again, I really appreciate the help :)

[Weedhound]

Your water is 400 ppm? Lose it and go with RO or distilled. PC is right.....you don't seem to have the idea very well of exactly what to do and so you are trying eveyrthing you can think of. Stop it.

You have regular tap water...plus CalMag.....WAY too much minerals etc in there if I am reading this correctly. Either way..(even if you don't) ..I'd dump EVERYTHING and start over. No wonder your plants look sickly.....I think you are burning them and that's why your ph won't stay down. As Stinky says...the issue could be your hydroton....but I have a feeling its much more your feeding "schedule" etc..


If you are interested I would try this.

RO water
CalMag....200
Grow nutes 200 (what kind are you using btw? A one part or three part)

and leave EVERYTHING else out of the equation. Everyone seems to think the answer is to add things....ANYTHING....instead of that perhaps they just have too MUCH junk in there already and it's causing toxicity problems. In THIS particular case I'm already POSITIVE there's junk in there.....what's the 400ppm of your water? Dirt? Sulpher? Who knows even what is IN your water so get rid of it.....and any problems it might be adding to your grow.

I'm guessing here....your info is sketchy and vague-ish....but that would certainly be my first guess in this situation.

Good Luck.

[Weedhound]

Revised: The Complete Guide To Sick Plants,pH and Pest Troubles - PlanetGanja.com (http://www.planetganja.com/highsociety/showthread.php?t=8778)

This is a very good troubleshooting forum as well.....definitely worth a look. ;)

[cmasfca]

Weedhound - Thanks for your reply :)

The water coming straight out of my tap measures in at 420 ppm. I do not have any calmag.

I will go to the hydro store today and pick up 15 gal of RO water and some CalMag. The nutes that came with my aeroponic's kit is Liquid Earth and it has three separate bottles; A vigor, bloom, and grow bottle.

I don't mean to be vague, let me know anything you don't understand and I will to my best to clear it up.

Thanks for tolerating my dumbass long enough to respond, the help is greatly appreciated. I am looking forward to becoming more adapt at growing in general, as this is my first ever grow. However, I am completely determined to see this crop out to finish, whether it takes twice as long with no smokeables in the end or not :)

[PharmaCan]

cmasfca - Listen to Weedhound. She knows a lot more about hydro than I do.

As far as the lights go, I'd get them up as high as you can. I've never taken fresh clones and put them under an hps, so I don't know for sure. Just don't cook them! Once you get your nute problems resolved, the plants ill start to grow, then they'll start to grow rapidly. When the new growth starts, You can lower the lights a little at a time - just watch how they react.

PC :smokin:

[Weedhound]

CM...I'm sorry if I came off rude.....I'm an old curmedgeon...didn't mean to be a crab. :)

I think that is definitely your best bet here. That 420ppm in your tap water....just plain scares me. That stuff could be ANYTHING in there.....we don't want it clogging up your grow and for all we know WHATEVER it is it could be locking out some of your needed minerals etc...

Stinky's point about hydroton is also something not to be taken lightly. I had issues with it as well and you have to watch your ph very carefully until it stabilizes. Interestingly though, only some people seem to have this problem with it.....I had horrible problems and gave the stuff to my friend (the rest of the bag..unused) which she turned around and used with absolutely NO ph issues at all.....EVER from the VERY same bag!!!

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the Earth Juice nutes so cannot really give you a starting point for them. I use Botanicare ProGrow (a one part grow nute) so you may want to ask your hydro guy what is a good number to start with. Some of these 3 parts nutes are measured out differently....which is why i hesitate to tell you to take a 3 part nute to "200ppms". I just don't know enough about them I'm afraid to give you precise directions on their use. Perhaps someone else here uses them......and will know.

PS....Good luck. You're not too far off.....but are making things more complicated than they have to be...hydro is pretty self sufficient if you have all the working parts together correctly. That's one of the reasons I like the one part nutes....anything that's easier and more convenient works for me. :D You'll get there.....don't worry. :)

[PharmaCan]

.

I will go to the hydro store today and pick up 15 gal of RO water and some CalMag. The nutes that came with my aeroponic's kit is Liquid Earth and it has three separate bottles; A vigor, bloom, and grow bottle.



You buy RO water at the grocery store. You fill your own bottles from one of those machines outside the store. It costs about $.25/gallon.

BTW - What light schedule are you on?

PC :smokin:

[cmasfca]

PharmaCan - I will take your advice and pay close heed to Weedhound's words, although I already have been ;)

I just got off the phone with my local Hydro shop and said that I need to get the chloramine(sp?) out of my water and the best way to do that is to flush my reservoir with R/O, just like you guys said! He suggested going 50/50 tap water and r/o, but when asked further he did say 100% RO with CalMag would be better, but more work.

I am going to the RO store today and getting 20 gal and flushing my entire reservoir with it. I then plan to follow the formula outlined at
The Cannabis Cultivation GrowFAQ - The Internet Hub for Marijuana Cultivation - MisterIto's chemical nutrient formula (http://www.growfaq.net/index.php?action=artikel&cat=12&id=78&artlang=en)
How does that look? I am unexperienced, but it looks like something I could follow using different brands for the same function.

Thanks for helping the new guy :):hippy:

[Weedhound]

HA ha sounds like your man is on the ball.....and is used to folks wanting the easiest way to do things....cm that's probably why we're all crabs around here.....we aren't used to people like you willing to go whole hog....good for you. :thumbsup: I would pick your hydro-man's brain while you are there.....my hydro guy literally LED me through my first grow....I'll never be able to repay all that he taught me (and still does teach me......)

I don't really understand that schedule you've got there...but seriously I don't have to in order for you to use it......if you understand how it works then GO FOR IT I say!!! :thumbsup:

[cmasfca]

PharmaCan - I was on a 24 hour cycle for the first 24 hours after I planted the clones. After the first 24 hour cycle I put it on 18/6.

Weedhound - I am going to pick up some of that Botonicare Progrow today. Do I also need to pick up CalMag? Or does the Progrow include those minerals?

My Planned Schedule If I Need To Add CalMag:
0 ppm RO water 15 gal
200 ppm CalMag
200 ppm Botonicare ProGrow

My Planned Schedule If I Do Not Need To Add CalMag:
0 ppm RO water 15 gal
400 ppm Botonicare Progrow

Do these schedules look alright until I am ready to flower?

Would it be better to run these schedules for a week, then increase the ppm more, and if so, how much should I raise the ppm to?

I am having a hard time finding something that will give me a good range of ppms during veg stage and flower stage and flush stage. Anyone have something like that bookmarked?

Weedhound - No, you didn't come off rude; I just realized I was being a dumbass and had to acknowledge it :D

My ph in the last 4 hours has only risen .1, so I am very happy about that. Maybe the hydroton was affecting the ph, at least a little bit.

All this talk about hydroponics being self sufficient; I was starting to feel like I was caring for a baby in intensive care. Now I realize I was giving them shit to eat, I mean even I don't drink my tap water. You just...don't around here!

/slaps self

Well, hopefully my girls will forgive me :(

Thanks guys

[Weedhound]

Actually when your plants are sick I think it IS like that in hydro....they can go very fast....crash and burn quicker than soil and its amazing how quick you SEE the changes in them.

I love my botanicare nutes.....and they are organic (mostly.....) If you buy some Pro Grow, RO water and CalMag you will be set......anything ele will be extra for your plants and we don't want that right now.

So...CalMAg....200ppm Pro Grow....200PPM.....watch ph like a HAWK....its not allowed to be out of 5.6-6.1 range. If you see improvement in the net 4-5 days then start upping things. I usually up things once a week by 200ppm (next week 300ppm CalMag and 300ppm Pro Grow...etc) but you could probably do smaller amounts faster if they look happy (add 100ppm every 3 days... instead of 200pm once a week.)

The biggest thing that was pounded into my head by my hydro guy is the CalMag and how important it is to use if you are using RO or distilled water. His schedule is 50% of your TOTAL ppms (using RO water) should be CalMag in veg.... R0 water.... 1/2 Cal Mag, 1/2 Grow nutes. Stick with this ratio.....don't raise your numbers too high too fast and keep your ph under control. I think if you do will have some happy plants growing before too long. ;)

[cmasfca]

Perfect Weedhound!

This answers all of my questions and I am impatiently waiting for my girlfriend to get back from class with my car so we can go get some r/o water, calmag, and progrow. We did get a hanna combo meter that has probes that are always in the res giving readings so that will be great for watching them the next couple of days. That may be the only reason my girls are still alive, is that I have watched the ph rise by 1.2 over 6 hours! So I added the ph down, I've used a ton of that already and I onlly got it yesterday!

Anyways, I'm definitely medicated to the point where I need to concentrate on something unimportant. Here I come xbox!

I will be watching for replies on my laptop, so don't be shy :)

If no one has any other comments I will respond after I have r/o, 200 ppm CalMag and 200 Botanicare ProGrow in my reservoir with my airstone, temp gauge, ph probe, and tds sensor; But NOTHING ELSE!!! :D

[Weedhound]

You GO CM!!!! :thumbsup: :stoned:

[cmasfca]

Update!

I just finished flushing the system with R/O water and after filling my res with 15 gal the total ppm was around 20, which is definitely within the range I want.

I then did the math to find out how much CalMag I needed for 15 gal to make 200 ppm and it came out to be .625 cups. After filling one half cup almost all the way and putting it in the res, my ppm jumped to 500! Fuck. So I added in 30 ppm of Botanicare ProGrow by doing little by little (which is what I should have done with the CalMag!!) I'm such a dumbass :( I then lowered the ph to 5.6 and am not letting it go above 5.9. I need much less ph down now to have an effect; I'm glad I did 3 drops at a time.

Did I just screw myself over AGAIN by putting too much CalMag into the reservoir? If needed I could go get another five gallons of R/O water from the store down the street and dilute the solution.

So, yell at my dipshit self, call me names, but please, what would you guys (and gals!) have me do?

THANKS

[Weedhound]

I hate to tell you this....but you should change it. 500 is way too much for seedlings....
What was the total number you ended up with?

[Weedhound]

Here's what I would do......

you have 500 CalMag.....Add 500 Pro grow....dilute entire thing down to 400 ppm....save the rest for a few days to add later.....it will stay good for a couple days....but not too long after that.

The ratios are very important here.

Ps...if it's easier to go to the nearest 7-11 and get distilled water that will work fine too.

[PharmaCan]

ROFLMAO - Look at the bright side. You now know much more about mixing nutes than you did earlier today.

...damn, you put almost 1/4 bottle of calmag in there. That's just too funny.

OK - enough laughing at your expense.

PC :smokin:

[cmasfca]

So I am about to go pick up 5 more gallons of R/O water and then drain 5 gallons from my res, then pour the straight R/O water in there and see how much it dilutes. From there I will balance the ph and then add a bit more nutes, like 50-100 ppm.

Sound good?

EDIT: God, I can't stop laughing at myself. My girlfriend is never going to let this down. I need some medicine, feel a migraine coming on.:stoned:

[Weedhound]

Sounds good to me as long as you end up with 50/50 mix of each....equalling about 400 (i wouldn't go above that for now..) Your plants will thank you for being so dedicated....no joke.....like PC said....here's one you won't do again.....:D

[Weedhound]

Ps....ALWAYS balance ph last.....last thing is ph....mix all your nutes first....then adjust ph right before you add it to your rez.
;)

[cmasfca]

Weedhound - Thanks for the replies, the local water store is closer than the local 711, so it's all good :) I am going to do as you said and add in 500 ppm of ProGrow, then dilute it down to 400 total. After that I will ph adjust. Finally, I am going to foilar feed with some Pure Blend Pro Grow at 7ml/gal.

How does this sound? I hope my girls will appreciate the work I've been putting into this, although it's all my fault for any yield sufferings :P

[Weedhound]

ha ha....I think once you start seeing some growth from those puppies you'll forget all about this day and be as proud as punch. :D

My main reason for loving hydro is that it is SO consistent that you can practically set your clock by it. Watch ph, watch nute numbers, etc....your plants will start growing like gangbusters...:thumbsup:

You have plenty of time to get things dialed in and I seriously doubt issues now ....if taken care of ....will have an effect on the plant's yield later.....but I honestly know very little about clones so I could be wrong there.

[cmasfca]

Good news!

ppm is down to 400, 200 ppm of calmag and 200 ppm of progrow!

ph was just lowered to 5.5 from 5.8.

I am super medicated and just had the police knock on my dooor about a noise complaint. He thought we were having a party; We were just playing Rockband on the Xbox! haha soo Anyways I am going to bed and i just switched the light starting the 6 hours of sleep.

G'night all!

[Weedhound]

Sounds good.....except the police part.....(hey....maybe they grow and would have some advice...:D)

update when you can so we can keep an eye on how they are doing. ;)

[cmasfca]

Good morning all, I woke up and immediately checked the my ph meter and it was at 6.1, so I lowered it down to 5.5. The ph is still 400 with canopy temps of 75 degrees and humidity at 45%. If you think the girls would be showing signs of improving already I will take a quick picture for you guys, otherwise I'll wait until at least tomorrow to compare. Patience is a virtue, right? haha

Would it be worth it to set an alarm every two or three hours during the night so I can keep the ph right around 5.5?

[Weedhound]

if you keep your ph between 5.6-6.2 (5.5 is ok) then no worries. Anything in that range is good for you plants. I would give them a good 24 hours with correct ph (so far...you have correct ph :thumbsup:) and then you should start to see some changes.. We loves pics so please.....slap them up here. :)

[PharmaCan]

Would it be worth it to set an alarm every two or three hours during the night so I can keep the ph right around 5.5?

Now that's dedication!! :D

PC :smokin:

[Weedhound]

Pc...you're a clone man. How much damage later will this kind of thing cause the clones?

[cmasfca]

Haha thanks for the comment PC; I just want my plants to have every opportunity to excel :)

I am going to install a screen today about 10 inches above the medium, I'll post a picture of it when I finish.

I am glad you guys enjoy pictures, I enjoy taking them :)

[Weedhound]

They seem somewhat less....wilted looking from the photo you posted yesterday. Opinions anyone?

[PharmaCan]

Pc...you're a clone man. How much damage later will this kind of thing cause the clones?

Once upon a time I nute burned a batch of clones. I wanted to see what they would tolerate so, instead of my usual 1/4 strength for the first feeding, I used 1/2 strength. It burned the clones pretty badly but, after a flush, the plants resumed normal growth. The burned foliage never did recover completely, but the new growth was fine and soon the old, damaged growth was incidental. It should be noted that I had no pH issues during this time, so I was only dealing with the nute problem.

If the plants take off and resume normal growth, they should be ok. But, if the roots or stem have been damaged, you're better off to start over. As the plant resumes growth, you can look at it and see if it is growing properly or not.

PC :smokin:

[Weedhound]

Since i am going to be trying cloning in the not too distant future....what kind of damage to the roots and stem are you talking about? Aside from physically breaking or crushing them of course....

[PharmaCan]

cmasfca - In the first pic - cut that dead leaf off. It looks ugly.

Pic 3 - That's physical damage to the leaf. Get over it. :D

Pic 4 - See all that new growth coming out of your stem? That is what you want to watch to know how well your plant will grow. That is your future plant - if it continues to flourish, your plants will be ok.

PC :smokin:

[PharmaCan]

Since i am going to be trying cloning in the not too distant future....what kind of damage to the roots and stem are you talking about? Aside from physically breaking or crushing them of course....

When you damage the leaves on a clone, they tend to be replaced rather than repaired. Although you need the existing leaves to support life, it is the new growth that should be the main focus of your attention. In his respect, you need the original leaves for a while, but, if they continue to die off, it's no big deal as long as they are being replaced with new growth. With that in mind, since we already know that our original leaves are essentially goners, it is the rest of the plant (the roots and stems) that must remain undamaged if the plant is to survive. If you can see your roots, an easy task for a dro, but somewhat problematic for a dirt farmer, they'll look shriveled and stringy. I have no idea what could happen to the stem, other than physical damage, but it seems logical that a total systems failure would also involve the stem in some form or fashion. BTW - being able to see the roots is a big plus. That's one reason I recommend using graduated sizes for pots. If you have to, it's pretty easy to give that baby a whack on the butt and pop it out of the pot so you can see the roots.

Dawg - When you get ready to clone, start a thread and we can all hold your hand and walk you thru it. :thumbsup:

PC :smokin:

[Weedhound]

Oh like you people will be able to escape.....You can see i'm great when there's a problem.:D

[cmasfca]

So my girls are doing great! Tomorrow morning I am going to take pictures for you guys of the new growth. I've only had to lower the ph twice today, and the ppms have risen by 10, now sitting at 410.

When do you think I should change the water? The ppms are pretty much stagnant, and the ph is all but stable.

So, what do I do now? Should I add some plain R/O water to dilute the ppms down to 400? Maybe all I need to do now is monitor the ph and in a couple days do a complete res flush. What do you guys and girls think?

To bed for me; My girlfriend cleaned our bong and hookah so I am checking out for the night:stoned:. BUT not before I lower the ph to 5.5 :D

EDIT: I just thought of another question, sorry! How should I add ph down and nutes to my res? I have been adding the nutes directly into the res and waiting a minute or two to see the change. Same thing with ph down as well. Is this bad? Good? Ugly? Thanks!

[Weedhound]

Ok...good to hear. :thumbsup: I would add RO water to dilute things down (stay under 450 for now....adjust ph after adding) and you can change the rez in 3-4 days and up things by a hundred (50/50 of each) etc etc...and simply watch them. If that's too fast just dilute things back for a bit.

Realize that even though the numbers seem "stagnant" to you we are no longer sure what those numbers are. The plants are drinking water and taking up what they need so all we are seeing here is what is left......and really.....that could be anything. (Remember your tap water at 400ppm? How much of our number would that crud be taking up? :eek:) We can only see the TOTAL number....not how much of what nute/mineral of each there is. This is where balance and ratios come in to play for me and frequent rez change are a good way to make sure those two things stay that way.....especially when you have young plants.

I would just add your nutes etc....then adjust ph very last. So many things will change your ph that you'd be readjusting it nine million times if you didn't.

PS....checking and adjusting ph twice a day is fairly standard practice in hydro so sounds like all is good there. ;) As the plants grow and you are using larger amounts of nutes your ph will remain more stable due to the buffers in the nute solutions. But when they are small.....everything has to be watched and checked more often.

[cmasfca]

Thanks for the reply Weedhound :)

I diluted the reservoir to 410 ppms and lowered the ph to 5.5. I am pretty sure I can see new growth forming on the top and sides of the plants so that has to be a good sign. I also peeked at the roots and they are now out the bottom of the net baskets by maybe a quarter of an inch :) When I first planted them in the net baskets I placed a layer of hydroton on the bottom, then the rockwool cubes; so the roots have grown over an inch downwards in the past day or so. Another good sign :)

I have attached a couple more pictures :)

[Weedhound]

Gotta love hydro! ;) They do look much better. Whats the plan for flowering those? How big are you going to let them get before you turn them? What kind of clones are they? I ask because I wonder if you will run into problems later with them crowding each other out...... BUT....i just don't know enough about clones to be able to tell you. If those were from seed I could see you having pretty big space problems about 1/2 way into flowering.

[cmasfca]

Weedhound,

I am going to start flowering as soon as possible. However, something bad happened yesterday :(

I got home around 9 pm to find my roommate fairly concerned. He is a very cool guy and knows that I have a recommendation for medical marijuana and such, but is still a bit cautious because of Federal law.

He said that the apartment manager called him and told him that the family below us had called the manager saying they had a leak in their small bedroom closet. Fuck!

What happened was my fill indicator tube that tells me how many gallons of water are in the reservoir had fallen over somehow and then the reservoir began to siphon itself out...onto my carpet...through the floor...down into the poor family's closet. All 15-16 gallons.

My roommate told the apartment manager that I had an aquarium in my closet (lol?) and that it had started to leak everywhere. Fortunately the manager wasn't mad but instead gave instructions on how best to dry out the carpet.

The manager is going to call sometime this morning to check up on things and I am going to say that everything is drying up real well (I've been trying to dry everything I can through most of the night.)

I am going to go and sincerely apologize to my neighbors tomorrow and tell them that I will pay for any damages that might have occurred. Maybe I should offer to wash their clothes that got wet.

My babies are in my tub right now and I have jerry rigged a 16 watt flouro and a 24 watt cloning flouro and set the time to the same as the HPS so hopefully their internal clocks aren't too fucked. The humidity outside the reservoir in my bathroom is at 70%, and I'm positive it's almost 100% humidity inside the reservoir.

I guess I did my res flush a couple days early, as soon as the water store down the street opens I'm going there and picking up another 15 gallons. I would have done this last night but I needed $5 in quarters for the 24 hour water machine but I didn't have more than a dollar or so.

I am hoping that my babies can survive for 13 hours without being sprayed with the nutrient solution. They are in RockWool that is still saturated as of now. Only about 4-5 more hours until my babies are fed again actively.

I can't believe what happened. Last night was definitely a rough night for both me and my girls. Hopefully it was harder on me than them, I feel so bad!

Fortunately my wonderful girlfriend has been extremely supportive about what happened and has said that if my girls die she will replace the crop with new clones, but I am not going to give up on them. If anything they are going to give up on me, I just hope they give me one more chance! (At least)

Remember how I said I have been working through most of the night? Well, last night when I got home I was super stoned, had 480mg of Dextromethorphan in my system (A dissociative), and had two shots of 80 proof hard alcohol (Last night was the first time I have ever had alcohol in my life, besides two glasses of wine at a birthday party a couple months back.)

I am curious to hear your reactions, impressions, SUGGESTIONS, and other comments because I definitely cannot go back to sleep until my babies are in a good situation again.

Thanks!

:stoned:

[Weedhound]

What a BUMMER!!!!!!! Wow, so sorry to hear about that. :(

I think your babies will be ok as long as you keep the roots damp with ph correct wter.....don't soak them or get the roots TOO wet...but as long as roots aren't damaged and you are have ph ok you should be good until you can get them back into their normal home.

As long as you have some sort of light on them....any light....you are good with that until you get them back under the hps so no real worries there.

Good luck....wow, I'm still bummed about your unhappy night.....

[Weedhound]

By soak them or roots too wet I mean SITTING in water (I had visions of them floating around in the tub. :D) but keeping the rockwool wet is ok until you get them back in their home. ;)

[cmasfca]

Weedhound,

Haha that would would be great to see someone use their tub as a cheap hydro setup where it automatically turned on the faucet and turned it off, then let it drain every so often. :D

I am feeling much better now that my plants are being fed. I have filled a spray bottle with RO water and then put 200 ppm of ProGrow and 200 ppm of calmag. It's funny; after the ppms hit 400 the ph moved down to 5.4 from 6.5 so I didn't even have to add any ph down! That's a first.

After carefully measuring out 5.4 ph 200 ppm calmag 200 ppm progrow I set the spray bottle to the finest mist possible and then sprayed the net pots until they dripped a little bit, mimicking a fogging system. Every 20 minutes I go back into my bathroom and feed my girls with about 2-4 sprays of water. I am also spraying the leaves, but from far away and fairly high up, getting as small droplets on the leaves as possible.

I have faith in my girls, I really believe they want to live as much as I want them to; It's just a matter of my dumbass not fucking things up every 4 days and I think I might have a homemade bud in a couple months.

I don't know about anyone else but I learn best by hands on experience. If this grow doesn't teach me the basics of growing there is no hope for me :D

Thanks for the help and encouraging words Weedhound! You da...woman! :):thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

Don't overdue.....they'll be fine until you can put them back. Missing a few meals won't hurt them....just dry or oversoaked roots.

I won't EVEN start on all the lovely stuff I have done to my plants....including overfert, underfert, abnormal ph, overspraying, (once I sprayed them with some sort of spray with a ph of 4...that was really good for them...:wtf:) practically fungus-sprayed them to death, overpruned, broken branches, rootbound, had to drill holes in the bucket and rootball etc etc etc.

I'm sure you get the idea....:D. But they always bounce back......especially in hydro.

Don't give up....:thumbsup:

[cmasfca]

Ya I figured watering every 20 minutes would be a bit much so I ended up spraying every 30-40 minutes 3 or 4 times and then I went to school. I just got back and sprayed them one last time before my "system" is up and running again.

I went to Home Depot to look for plastic trays to hold my res, because the local hydro shops are charging me $45 for a 2x3ft tray and I don't have money for that right now. I found a nice and big rubbermaid lid that they would only sell with the tub for $20. Well, they sure didn't sell me anything but I did get that lid :thumbsup:

I will post pics of my babies once they are back in their home. I also picked up a black shower curtain at another store and that should help out for the dark times (and helping me sleep :D)

Give up? Me? Hah, you should have seen the faces of the people who live below me as they watched me and my girlfriend haul up another 15 gallons of RO water into my apartment. lol.

[Weedhound]

Hey CM,

How are things going over there?

[cmasfca]

Well, my babies are back in their closet and I am fabricating my light proof setup so that I can be ready to start flowering them.

The ph is 5.7, up from 5.5 from last night so that is good. The ppms have stayed at 400 for about 18 hours now. The canopy temps are around 80-85. I am looking into getting some sort of ventilation system, whether it's a cooltube or something else I find at home depot / hydro store.

The leaves look a bit like nute burn and I am almost positive it was from when I was foliar feeding. I am not too concerned because I am no longer doing that, so a couple days should show great improvement. A couple pics, for you viewing pleasure :D

I am going to use twist ties to inhibit the vertical growth of the girls and start training them around the screen. Eventually, buds will grow through the holes and I will have a screen of green (hopefully).

[Weedhound]

They look none the worse for wear so that's good.;) Looks like you are ready for flowering there. :thumbsup: Pure Blend makes a Pro Bloom that you will want to use after a week or two into 12/12.....and of course your CalMag.

Foliar feeding scares me frankly....something about spraying all those fert salts into a leaf just doesn't seem right to me.......although I freely admit its very commonly done.

[cmasfca]

Yay! I am so glad that you agreed with me. I came to a conclusion regarding plants...and I was right for once! Haha, just for that I'm blazing before class. Oops, it starts in 8 minutes. Oh well :stoned:

I am going to Bed Bath and Beyond for some shower curtains and rods later today. It's going to be sweet lol.

[cmasfca]

I finished making my grow area light proof and am going to send it into 12/12 timing tomorrow. Should I up the ppms from 400 at all or should I wait until I start adding in the ProBloom to up the ppms?

I took the three best cuttings and dipped them in cloning gel and they are now in rapid rooter plugs inside of my humidity dome. The cuttings are kind of pathetic. I think that the lack of vertical growth during my grow can be attributed to all the shit they've been through, plus they're under a 400w hps so they don't have much need to grow tall. All the better for making my screen of green :D

I took a couple pics of the cuttings. I'm not really expecting anything to come from them except gaining some experience. Is it true Weedhound that I now have more experience in cloning than you do?! lol let me know if you have any questions ;)

[MVP]

I don't recommend foliar feeding... how often does that happen in nature? I suspect practically never. Reserve foliar for treating nute or pest problems, and pray you never have them!

[cmasfca]

Ya I won't ever foliar feed again. The leaves are a little burned from it. I was spraying the roots and that was enough, but I wanted to be sure while my girls weren't being constantly sprayed.

I am eager to start flowering my girls, I think I will start them at sunset tomorrow on the 12/12 cycle. Then in a week or so I will change my nutes over to the ProBloom and raise them to a total of 500 or so, 250 of calmag and 250 of probloom.

I am concerned about my temperatures during the day; they are a steady 85. I can open up the curtains and get the temps down to 80 if needed. Should I?

[Weedhound]

I DO have a list of cloning q's I will post for you...:D

I would raise your ppms every few days....or once a week. If every 3-4 days I'd raise things by 100ppm (50 of each) and if once a week I'd raise things by 200ppms (100 of each...CalMag....Pro Grow). For your kids I would keep them on the Grow formula for the first two weeks of flowering....raising things every few days or once week. In two weeks you should be at 800....then switch over the the bloom... Before I give you ppms for the bloom I'd like to see how they are doing at that point. :)

When raising your ppms you want to watch carefully for nute burn. The first thing you will see is a curling down of the serrated leaf edges and tips. If you do see this....dilute your solution down by adding ph'd RO water.....wait a few days and then try again. Very scientific I know but that's how its done...:D

If you can get your room temps down to 80 that is best and here's why. When the surface of the leaf gets to 80 degrees F (this is the leaf itself...the top of it) then photosynthesis slows down GREATLY....which obviously slows the growth of your plants down as well. If you really want to get into it you can buy a cheap little handheld temp
gun and measure your leaves to see how close to 80 they are. I did this when I bought some new lighting and wanted to see how close I could get the light without overheating the leaves.

You will find alot of folks who swear their plants grow GREAT in hotter environments. That's wonderful for them......but I do often wonder what would happen if they were able to actually have the IDEAL temperature in their room.....and I bet their plants would grow alot faster and have better yields as well. ;)

[MVP]

If you really want to get into it you can buy a cheap little handheld temp gun and measure your leaves to see how close to 80 they are. I did this when I bought some new lighting and wanted to see how close I could get the light without overheating the leaves.

WH, where did you get the little temp gun thingie? I wanna ask Santa to bring me one this season...

[Weedhound]

Amazon.com: PE1 INFRARED THERMOMETER TEMP GUN: Toys & Games (http://www.amazon.com/PE1-INFRARED-THERMOMETER-TEMP-GUN/dp/B0009O1G5K/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1196884496&sr=8-3)

I bought mine at my hydro store but you can get them pretty commonly these days MVP :)

[MVP]

Kinda funny they are in the Toys and Games section... So is that the same model you use? And is somewhere around $30-$40 is a fair price? All these gizmos are gonna drive me crazy!

[Weedhound]

Lol.....I KNEW you'd pick up on that MVP....I just picked out the cheapie one to draw you in...:D

Amazon.com: PE-2 Laser Temp Gun: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/PE-2-Laser-Temp-Gun/dp/B000U080A2/ref=pd_bbs_11?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1196901050&sr=8-11)

Here is the very same one I use....bought for about $48 at my hydro store. :)

[MVP]

I called the 2 best hydro stores in the area and one told me they stopped carrying them since they didn't sell well, and the other said it was ~ $70 for anyone worth a crap... $45 + shipping off Amazon doesn't seem too bad but I'm broke...

Santa - if you are out there - I have been very, very good this year... especially to the girls! :jointsmile:

[PharmaCan]

Your clones should be in a humidity dome.

PC :smokin:

[cmasfca]

I took the dome off to take pictures and I am spraying the dome 3 to 4 times a day. :)

[cmasfca]

So the girls had their first day of 12 hours and first night of 12 hours and call me crazy but I think they have already grown at least a half inch in the past 24 hours. I have increased the ppms to 500 and I think they love it :) I have attached a couple pics, what do you guys think?

:thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

Looks like they are starting to take off to me. :thumbsup: You may want to start thinking about some supplements for them like Liquid Karma and Sweet. These aren't necessarily but most likely WILL help your plants grow bigger. :D

[cmasfca]

Weedhound, I'm down for anything that will beef up my babies :D

If I get both Liquid Karma and Sweet, what ppms should they be at?

Thanks!

[MVP]

Start slow with them, only a couple of ml/gal. WH will give you the lowdown...

[Weedhound]

When you turn them to flower you can start the Liquid Karma and then Sweet (like MVP said....go slow ;)) I would do you regular nutes to your regular ppms....then add LK at about 2-3 mls per gallon. If they do well with that you can add two mls of Sweet per gallon....then start working them up. It takes me several weeks to work them up to my top number for the supplements which is 7ml/gallon through about week 5 to week 8-9.

It's harder to nuteburn your plants with supplements than with regular nutes but it certainly can happen so do watch your numbers carefully.

[cmasfca]

Weedhound, thanks for the advice! :thumbsup: I actually turned them yesterday and I don't want to get things too complicated on this grow so I will definitely follow that advice my next grow :D

The girls are doing great and the ppms have dropped by only 10 in almost a day and a half! Tomorrow I am going to add a gallon of RO water with 250 calmag 250 progrow and then if the ppms are not up to 500 again I will top off as needed. In about a week and a half I will change the res completely and switch from about 400 progrow to 400 probloom and 400 calmag totaling 800 ppms. How does that sound?

Thanks for all your help, I wouldn't be this far without you :)

[Weedhound]

That's fine and not a bad idea at all to take things slowly.....more grows....more fun later... ;)

If your numbers are dropping you can raise the ppms....they are eating the stuff down and could use more. I would go to 600ppms for next time......then 800 the week after that. And do watch that number....if it continues to go down you can keep raising things a bit at a time. :thumbsup:

[cmasfca]

Sounds good :thumbsup:

I will raise the ppms tomorrow by adding in 600 ppm gallon of ro water.

I just vaped for the first time in a couple months tonight...great medicine. Can't wait until I don't have to pay 15/gram!

[Weedhound]

I bet they'll take another jump if you do. ;)

I may have passed on some tips but your plants are doing well because you were and are willing to do the work involved in order to keep them happy and healthy. You do for them and down the line they will DEFINITELY do for you. :thumbsup: :jointsmile:

[MVP]

cmasfca, I have some unsolicited advice that will help if you are not doing it already...

It took me a little while but I have this little friend call Mr. Clipboard that I recommend beginner and intermediate growers keep handy at all times. I was growing for some time without him, but encountered issues and have learned the errors of my prior ways.

I track each nute change by PPM, PH, ml/gal of each nute solution component, etc. and it is a great tool to learn the art of growing. I also jot down the daily PPM and PH levels (well, almost every day ... I promise I'll get it to daily) so I can see trends and such. I have a little excel document that I put together and am refining so I record the same parameters each time.

Hmmm, now that I mentioned it I should finish the form and perhaps, oh maybe, post it up to CannCom for others to use?

[cmasfca]

MPV, good advice! I haven't actually started one yet but I was planning on it. I guess I should make one now seeing as I can still remember all of my readings and nutes but that probably won't last :stoned:

[MVP]

MPV, good advice! I haven't actually started one yet but I was planning on it. I guess I should make one now seeing as I can still remember all of my readings and nutes but that probably won't last :stoned:

I thought the same thing for a while, but after starting a veg room and cloning area the information just flat faded away and is now lost forever. It will be an invaluable help to you later when you THINK you remember something but cannot quite put a finger on it..... I'll post my form for you to look at sometime later today.

[MVP]

Just in case someone/anyone out there might find it helpful, here is one of the tracking forms I use to keep track of WTF I am doing at any given time in my grow area.... there is so much happening some times it is easy to forget.

I put the form together in excel but couldn't upload it so here is a PDF... if anyone wants a copy in excel try me thru My Homepage.

:pimp:

[MVP]

Here is the other one that I use for checking and logging daily PH and PPM.

[cmasfca]

Small update!

Yesterday I added three gallons of RO water, then upped the ppms to 610(Oops!). The ph was 5.4 so I upped it to 5.6 and today it is down to 5.5. The ppms have gone down to 600. I am planning on raising the ppms again by 100 on the 12th of December. I just got back from being out of town for 24 hours and I got home 10 minutes after the lights went out so I will snap some pictures tomorrow. I can tell you one thing though, my roommate has suggested it is time for scented candles...and I agree! I have 6 clones of Arctic Sun (F1 cross of white widow and skunk #1) and 2 clones of Atomic Haze (F1 cross of Atomic NL and Haze) and the girls are definitely starting to smell :) That has to be a good sign :D

[Weedhound]

Yeah, that's the BEST sign.....whenever something starts going funny with my plants the VERY FIRST thing they lose is their scent. It's always a clue to me. ;)

You can try scented candles but....depending on the strain.......may not be enough. I grew some catpiss once and the smell just BLEW AWAY the entire house with this horrible male cat pee smell. That stuff reeked when it grew, it reeked when it was drying, and it reeked when you smoked it. I'm not trying the strain called dogshit for that very reason......:D

[MVP]

IMO anything crossed with Skunk is gonna be smelly - exhaust fan is how I solved that problem. My Super Skunk is pretty stinky and smells up the whole house any time I cut the fan off completely. I would encourage you to look into a stronger odor suppressant such as Ona gel blocks...

[cmasfca]

I love the smell though :D I just don't want it to smell anywhere besides my room. Would I put the ona gel blocks next to the plants? I might get something like that if my roommate starts to complain too much...although he is going away for winter break so I have almost a month where I don't have to worry about it.

I have attached a couple pics of the ladies, they are looking mighty fine :D

[cmasfca]

That last pic is one of my pure sativa plants...gotta love the node spacing :D I'm guessing it's so tight in there because of my HPS during veg? No complaints here :stoned:

[Weedhound]

Those look REALLY good.! Good work. :thumbsup: Keep it up. :jointsmile:

[cmasfca]

The ppms have dropped down to 590 now, the girls must be really hungry! The ph is at 5.5 and so on the 12th I am going to drain 5 gallons and add 5 gallons of RO water adjusted to 700, then add in the difference; and of course I won't forget to keep the ph around 5.6-6.0. I really want some koolbloom; I think it will help my girls, but I literally have no spending money right now so I must wait until next grow. Oh well, at least I know next grow will be better; it will be hard to fuck up this much twice :D

[cmasfca]

Oh, I have a question! Do you think that it would be cost effective to purchase some hydro flouros and turn off the HPS during veg or would it be better to have both the flouros and hps during veg and flowering?

Or, would it be worth it to get a mh bulb that would work on my ballast?

Or, should I just keep what I have; if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[Weedhound]

The best thing to do.....in my personal opiinion only.....is to buy an mh conversion bulb for your hps ballast and use that during veg. Flouros WILL be cheaper but I personally have not been happy with them for vegging my plants. It will be more expensive to go with hps AND flouros but mh lighting is PERFECT for vegging and your plants will thank you by growing bigger and better for it with just one ballast. ;)

[SFGurrilla]

Use muratic acid. Like barely a drop not even a drop half a drop. Get distilled water from the store and keep a gallon of it. pH raises every 8 hours. If im wrong someone correct me?

[MVP]

Definitely get a MH conversion bulb. If you don't you will be sacrificing yield. IMHO.

[cmasfca]

Sweet, so a conversion MH bulb it is :D

I'm going to have to wait until I get some money but I should definitely have it by next grow. I'm happy to have another thing to help my yield next time around :)

SFGurrilla I'm not too sure what you were talking about. Could you explain what I would use muratic acid for? Thanks :)

Well, I'm going to go roll a joint out of shake. I hope I can get high off of stems and seeds LOL

Watch, tomorrow I'm going to be scraping all of my pieces and doing resin hits. God I can't wait until I don't have to do that; although I probably will because I'll just start smoking a lot more haha

cheers :) :stoned:

[Weedhound]

I think SF is referring to the title of the thread.....;)

[cmasfca]

LOL oh, my bad. So I woke up today and the ph was at 5.4 so with 5 drops of ph up my ph is now at 5.7. My ppms are at 590. The girls can't wait for the 5 gallon flush plus more nutes that they get tomorrow.

I have attached a couple pics I thought were kinda cool to look at.

I fell asleep last night before I finished rolling my J, so here I come :stoned:

[Weedhound]

Cm.....pick up some store bought 3% hydrogen peroxide at the market and add to your rez at 2 teaspoons a gallon. With your ph dropping that sounds to me like you are losing some roots there as a lower ph can signal roots dying off. The peroxide will help flush out any bacteria etc in your rez and give your plants an 02 boost as well. You can add it every 48 hours to rez to help with the roots, prevent mold and rot issues and add some oxygenation. ;)

Ps...do not use H202 if you are using a ZYME product. Unless you haven't mentioned something to me....you aren't.. :D

[Weedhound]

And you should start a grow log.....you've sort of outgrown this thread.. :thumbsup:

[MVP]

And you should start a grow log.....you've sort of outgrown this thread.. :thumbsup:

I agree, time to Graduate to a Grow Log! I'll look for you over there soon...

P.S. I'll be doing the same too, so as not to be a hypocrite!

[cmasfca]

Ok so I made my grow log but it was when the forums were down so it's not there yet...

Anyways, my girls have chewed the ppms from 710 to 660 in 48 hours! I am following the regiment of upping every 3-4 days so I will again tomorrow to 800. The next time after that I'm thinking of a complete flush and then replacing the progrow with probloom nutes. the probloom will be around 400 or 500 and then 400 or 500 ppm of calmag.

How does that sound?

I will update and post my grow log after work...gotta go though much love!

[Weedhound]

If they are eating things down....keep upping them. Once you shift to bloom I'd like them to be at 1000.....CalMag 500 and pro bloom 500. They MAY even eat that number down so watch them carefully.......I'm sure you have been already. :thumbsup:

[cmasfca]

Weedhound,

I followed your advice and added some hydrogen peroxide a couple days ago and am going to add more again today.

I plan on upping the nutes to 800 and flushing 5 gallons either today, tomorrow, or the next day. It is finals week so my studies are unfortunately first priority right now.

Fortunately I am a huge procrastinator so I will most likely give more than enough attention to my ladies if you know what I mean haha...

I have been carefully pruning fan leaves that are covering bud sites to keep following my SCRoG instructions. Unfortunately as I was cutting one fan leaf using a razor I accidentally cut 75% through a stem with two bud sites above it!!! I was so sad I wanted to use that razor and cut my wrists (not really, but I did feel bad.) So I ended up taking the two bud sites and trimming them and now I am going to smoke them along with some primo hydroponically grown medicine :stoned:

I would upload better pictures but my girlfriend took her camera back because I forgot to delete all the old pictures and she was showing her mom pictures on her camera and her mom almost saw one of the pictures lol :D

[Weedhound]

NEW PICS! NEW LOG! Don't TEASE me with shots like that.....:( :D

[cmasfca]

I took pictures and posted in my grow thread; I will continue to post in there from now on...here's one of the pictures posted in my grow thread below...

http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/144791-first-ever-grow-obviously.html

[Weedhound]

oops.....sorry.....will book over there asap.....:(

[cmasfca]

Sorry my post came out very wrong!

I didn't post the pictures in my thread until you asked for new ones here, as I had to wait for my roommate to come home. When he did, I took pictures, posted on my grow thread, then posted here for anyone who wants to continue reading about my problems so they won't run into them :D