deficiency or burn??????

[mike024]

Hello all Im looking for some feedback to help me identify a problem Im seeing in my girls for about 2 weeks after transplant into my table from the cloner...The pic below is about the clearest one I could get Im running 25 girls in a 4x4 table and almost all of them appear to have either N deficiency or burn...I say deficient and my "counterpart" says burn I know they tend to present themselves looking the same sometime but I need objective opinions to get some real help. I had them up to 400ppm in the cloner and theyre at 700 in week 1 of flower now...all other parts of the plant appear ok just one or two leaves on each plant are showing this look. Any help is totally appreciated!!!

[Weedhound]

http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/127058-troubleshooting-form-yay-you-know-you-wanted-one.html

Maybe someone else can help you without more info but I'm afraid I can't. If you take the time to fill this out I'll take the time to try and assist you. ;)

[dejayou30]

Is it just the one leaf? I had a couple big leaves do that because of the pH issues I had early in my grow. If the others are starting to turn colors or droop, I'd say nute burn. But if its just a few leaves, check your pH. Could be a lot of things, so definitely check out that FAQ that Weedhound posted. I have it bookmarked and have used it many a time.

[PharmaCan]

DJ - Leaves die, get over it.

I'm no problem whiz by any stretch of the imagination, but I do adjust my flower nutes by pumping them up until I see the first signs of nute burn, then backing off a little from there. DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME - OK. :D The first signs of nute burn that I look for are brown on the tips of the leaves. You don't have that.

That looks like an old fan leaf from the original cutting. If it is, it's been almost dead for a long time, it just hasn't had the decency to rot until now.

DO fill out the form Weedhound sent you to. Someone needs to keep an eye on you and your ppm's.

PC :smokin:

[herbie the love bud]

Burn happens from the tips inward. Deficiency spreads equally pretty much. Another alternative could be heat burn. You could also have nutrient lock. So it's hard to say for sure, but watch your ppm and see if it is going up or down daily. If up, then burn, if down then deficiency.

Luck.

[mike024]

-indoor or outdoor-indoor
-soil, soilless, or hydroponic-hydro
-specific medium-hydroton
-Soil type/brand-NA
-Hydro/aero/soilless system type-4'x4' ebb and flow fed 6x daily 5 during light period
-Anything you have added to the soil-NA
-Soil pH-NA
-Water source-tap
-Water pH-5.9..lately been creeping up to 6.4-6.8 daily
-Age of plant-week 1 flower..veg for only 8 days
-Type of fertilizer-Botanicare
-Rate of application-6x daily 396gpm pump runs for 3min
-Lighting source and distance from plant-2 1000wHPS w sunmaster hps deluxe air-cooled on a light rail 3.5
-Temperature (both day and night if you are running a dark period)-83 light cycle 74 dark cycle
-% Relative humidity-80%..
-Lighting schedule-12/12
-Type of ventilation your room has-carbon filtered 4inch canfan 170cfm passive intake


I feed with botanicare full line up..pure blend pro bloom, sweet, liquid karma, silica blast, hyrgrozyme and i flush w clearex every res chng (10 days)

I appreciate the quick posts guys... ill try to get some better angles. It is happening on each plant about 2-3 leafs each, I really think I burned them...I had them at 400 in the ezcloner and then put them to about 700 when i transplanted them right from the cloner, tonight i emptied half my rez and filled with new h2o dropping the ppm to 480 and put the ph down to 6.1 which is good for this setup. Let me know if any of this makes sense and again thanks for helpin me out everyone!!

ya know what... I may try to get some good pics up here and start a log myself, never done one but who knows maybe itll help someone else out...

[mike024]

ok...distance to plants is about 8 inches rt now..passes the palm test and the last question should read with passive intake

[stinkyattic]

You've got a pH problem from your hydroton. You need to prep it by soaking on pH adjusted water (5.8) for a few days before use. Check the soak water during that time and if it creeps up, drop it until it remains stable over a 24 hour period. An airstone in there will help mimic the conditions that the nute solution will be running.

Also, your nute lineup is pretty hefty. I'd start with just the bloom nute and silica blast (go easy on that stuff) until you get your pH stable. Check it every 12 hours at MOST and keep it in range by adding pH down until it is stabilized.

Finally, what is the ppm of your plain tap water? There is a possiblity that it is causing problems. Just check to put your mind at ease.

[Weedhound]

sounds like a very nice setup you have going....:thumbsup: Good for you to do it all the right way.

If your ph is rising and wasn't before.....I'd take a guess your ppms went too high and you burned them as Stinky says. I actually don't mind what you are using except that if I had all that stuff going on my ppms would be more like 1200.....and I dont use silica blast....not even sure what that is but again....like Stinky says....start small and move up. I would drop the Sweet from the program for now and cut your numbers down until ph stabilizes.

Watching your ph is your biggest friend here. If ph was stable and now climbs quickly....daily....AND is hard to drop back then I wonder about nute burn. That's one of the first signs I will see if my numbers get too high and is always a red flag to me.

If it was stable and suddenly starts to drop daily etc....makes me think the roots are dying off somewhere in the medium perhaps due to low oxygen or something along that line.

I love hydro. :)

[Weedhound]

Also....your 80% humidity? What's up there? You really want NO MORE than 50% and ideal would be in the 30's or you will be having mold and fungus problems for sure....especially if your plants have issues to begin with.

[Weedhound]

Also...just fyi....if you have been having ph issues the entire grow (rising daily and always has......you mentioned it had been jumping "lately" so I took that as a sign it had been stable before)....just want to clarify here then I agree with Stinky the problem is in the medium. But if the change is sudden.......it rings a bell in my head. ;)

[mike024]

wow...stinky you are the fn man...I consider you one of the gurus on here and I learned most of what i know from you about a year ago...needless to say I have advanced rapidly lol and yes i think the ph of the hydroton could def be playing a part in my issues...any suggestions on how i can adjust that while in the table? The feed that I put up there was more what I use during the entire span, I apologize it was late last night when i was writing..right now I am using bloom, some sweet, and a lil silica w a touch of hygrozyme...mainly bloom tho as its my base...my water comes out the tap at about 120ppm which isnt bad from what ive seen and its never given me a problem
Weedhound- thanks for helpin me out here too I think ur totally right about the ph jumping up too becuase usually w my feeding and water the ph hovers rt about 5.8 and stays stable..not this time...as soon as i can afford a dehumidifier im gon get that RH down...ill be back later tonight to check any new replies and ill give you guys some better pics!!!

[stinkyattic]

Oh shit I didn't even notice the 80%RH! Yikes, you need a burlier exhaust fo sho, son!

Just keep checking and adjusting your res pH until it stays stable. You essentially have to 'break in' the hydroton like a pair of hiking boots... use it during this process at your peril... you're gonna get blisters until the problem is fixed! :D

Hmm... everyone thinks I'm a dude this week too... gender check... hey! Boobs! Cool!

[PharmaCan]

Mike024 - I was pretty stoned last night when I wrote the above reply and somehow I got it twisted around in my mind that this was Dejayou's thread. If I tell DJ something like "Leaves die, get over it!", he knows that I'm just kidding him. You were probably thinking, "What an asshole." Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that my remark was meant in jest and wasn't even directed at you. As far as what I wrote about your problem, again I was thinking of DJ's plants that he was talking about on another thread and what I wrote probably has nothing to do with your plants. :D

DJ - you're probably wondering wtf I was talking about. The above explains it.

PC :smokin:

[mike024]

Stinky..Im real sorry about that slip of the tongue I gotta learn to pay more attention. But dude seriously... ur not a dude?????? lol;)
You are right about the 80% im just to a point where i can put a lil money back into the room again but cant decide whether to get a bigger fan or dehumidifer. The dehumidifier would fix the problem easily but uses bigtime electricity and adds heat...if i get a bigger fan i need to get a bigger carbon filter,thats like 400 bucks tho.

PC..no worries ur greeting confused the shit out of me at first I thought I was just an idiot lol thank you i feel better now tho. But the advise you left me was spot on. I checked a bunch of my leaves at the bottom and sure enough they were the original fan leaves from cloning.

Im gon head down and checkem now possibly put up a pic or 2 so u can see what im workin with:)

[mike024]

Good morning everyone!! I snapped a couple pics for you to give me some constructive critisism...and to show off a bit lol. Please be kind as everything you see is a result of my hard work and sweat over the past year.

I came to a sad realization last night while working on the room, the plants you see here are one week into flower. I have been working under the assumption that because I dont have much height (7ft total) I couldnt veg for more than 5-6 days or theyd get to big. After reading throuh all the threads on here I found Ive been going at this all wrong. Correct me if im wrong but since these are in flower already and only 14 inches high that grid wont do me too much good as i cant bend/lst these girls exactly where i want them and get 5-6 colas per plant. Also if you notice I have another empty 4x4 table next to this one, I have no way to veg one table while the other is in flower and now I want to veg for 2-3 weeks so i can use less plants and get more bud.

So heres my solution, I have 20 clones 4 days into cloning right now and I can cut another 20 today and put them in the same cloner so in about 14 days ill have a total of 40 plants (20 in each table). I can move the 20 you see here to another room to finish out flower too and this room needs short plants to as it is a aero60 and it grows big ugly lanky plants.

I think ive answered my own question here but I want your opinions, do you think ill do better using only 20 plants in each table which gives them a flat 1 square foot each and tieing them off on the grid during a 2-3 week veg? This way I can have both tables running an 18 hour cycle at the same time and just cant have a rotation like i wanted, but who cares if i can find a way to pump 5 pounds each from each table right???

Oh by the way I am growing White Widow off the same mom for a year now...Just ordered Satori and Speedqueen from Mandala seeds to try a new flavor and increase yeilds.

I know its a lot of questions and Babbling here but I hope to get some insight from you all and I hope you enjoy the pics i put up

PS the last pic is from my last harvest about 3weeks ago lemme know what ya think!!!!!

[PharmaCan]

Who is this masked man? ...comes on here disguised as a noob then puts up pics of his 10' tall colas. :D Ultra nice looking buds, Mike! :thumbsup:

I've been growing widows too. Right now I have a ScrOG going. (http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/140205-my-first-scrog-young-girls-bondage.html) Probably the best thing I can say about it is that I'm learning a lot from my mistakes.

You should consider lowering your screen and tying your plants as best you can, then install a second screen about 1' or so above the first screen. Keep tying your plants all the way thru the stretch. When the buds start growing, use the second screen to keep them vertical.

How many weeks did your Widows go? I'm planning for 10 on mine.

PC :smokin:

[MVP]

Damn Mike, nice pics. Excuse me while I wipe the drool off of the keyboard. I really like your lighting and fan set up too (of course second to the harvest pics).... it looks to me like you have them vented together in series, right? Also where do you have the ballasts? I'm thinking SCROG for my Black Dominas that are going into flower in a few more weeks, so I'll be reading, watching, and learning from you, Opie, and PC....

[mike024]

LOL PC ok you caught me Ive been kinda coming and going on this site for a year now and needless to say Ive learned at an accelerated rate but by all means I still consider myself a Noob. My last grow that you see here I logged pretty thoroughly and yes 10 weeks is almost exactly what they took. I tend to crop mine in 2 stages to create 2 diff highs too so half got cut right at 10 wks when trichs are 80% cloudy white (not amber yet) and then about 10 days later the rest when about 40% are amber, this give me half my crop w the "lift you up, go get some shit done" type high and then the other half is "couch-lock, the schnozberries taste like schnozberries" type high. People love being able to get a variety pack of the same kinds of bud.

So You really think I can train these girls after a week into flower and still come out ok? that still kinda leaves me w the problem of not bein able to veg my other table at all too....I talked to my other room manager and hes ready for 25 girls a week into flower (who isnt lol) I still may bring them to him and load up both tables with 20 each and veg 14 days proper-like. I love my grid design beacuse its versatile, I can just swap the vertical pipes holding the grid up for shorter pipes and voila!! I cut 3 diff size pipes already and now im working on the design for the 2nd grid cuz based on last time theyre gon need a 2nd grid for support. thanks for the compliment too and lemme know any other thoughts/suggestions I think im gon stick around here for this grow and do a log as I mentioned before, I just love all the feedback and opinions. Cheers!!

[Weedhound]

Mike.....let me offer you one small (but priceless) piece of advice. Invest in the dehumidifier. At 80% rh.....you could lose your entire crop to mold VERY VERY easily. Is that worth the price of the dehumidifier to you or not?

[mike024]

Weedhound..you couldnt be more right about the dehumidifier im going up to home depot on my way to work for it..its only 150 bucks and i think its well overdue for a room of this magnatude..

MVP...thanks for the drool it really is appreciated, does anyone have a paper towel?:D
Your right they are run in series with simple 4inch tube and aluminum Ts there is a booster fan hanging from the first trolly holding the wires tubing and the fan with a chain, I put my ballasts outside the room vertically on a fireproof board and the intake/exhaust of my lights is 2 cheap fans moving about 250cfm. It keeps a lot of the heat outside the room and actually runs the ballasts cooler too. I also took the time to wire a separate 20amp line from my fusebox dedicated for the lights to avoid any fire hazards/overloads.

[Weedhound]

Good Mike....it would be such a shame to lose them over something avoidable. Good job. They look GREAT!!! :thumbsup:

[mike024]

:jointsmile::rasta::thumbsup:

[PharmaCan]

Mike, when you're doing the ScrOG properly, you're supposed to veg the plants until your screen is 50%-75% full; the rest will fill up during the 12/12 stretch. The way these Widows grow, I'd stay closer to the 50%. But then again, I have four plants in 18 sq.ft. and you are putting 20 plants in what looks to be about 16 sq.ft. But hell, even if you got one extra cola per plant because of the training, with the size of your colas, that's a lot more mj!

Do start a log when you start the grow; I wanna learn how to grow colas like yours! :thumbsup:

...and you might wanna plan on three screens.

PC :smokin:

[dejayou30]

DJ - you're probably wondering wtf I was talking about. The above explains it.

PC :smokin:

Hahaha totally! I was reading through and I was thinking "Why is he telling me this? Its not even my thread for once!" :jointsmile:

[PharmaCan]

Mike, if you were to change your cloning practices in a couple small ways, I think you could get a lot more vibrant plants coming out of your cloner. In the cloner photo, you have a lot of large leaves on your clones. Some are stuck to the cloner, rotting, others are dragging the cutting over with their weight. With cuttings the size you are taking, 2-3 fan leaves is all you need and those should be trimmed back to 1/2-1/3 their original size. This will let your cuttings stand up straighter and no rot to contend with. Once the cutting has roots, all of the original trimmed leaves that are dead/yellowing should be trimmed off so that the clone puts its energy into new growth.

If you can, you should also get a humidity dome for your cloner. The cuttings will stay healthier under a dome.

PC :smokin:

[mike024]

I was actually going to explain the cloner situation before I left earlier but ran out of time im sorry I know I look like an abusive father but Im not I swear lol. When I cut these clones 5 days ago I left in a rush and forgot to plug in the cloner pump so when I checked them 12 hours later I found a cloner with 20 clones that were flat as paper and what I thought was dead...some superthrive foliar and turning on the machine slowly brought them back to life I never ever ever wouldve thought theyd live but they actually picked back up. I usually do trim the leaf tips to lighten the weight the clones support and with the superthrive foliar on my mom before cutting the stems keep them up like bamboo. I definately agree with you tho that having a healthier clone absolutely leads to a better grow/yeild and quality Ive done the table with big thick stems to start and they were the most vigorous Ive ever had...The smaller shitty clones definatly take longer and dont produce optimum results...I am actually cutting 20 more babies in about 10 minutes, after they recover from the beheading 2m ill put up a pic of what they "should" look like as you described.

[mike024]

Hello everybody got some new stuff to add to the thread, Im not sure if I should just keep this one goin or start a new one so feel free to tell me what u think...about anything.

Ok so its my first time growing with a screen...I know its been put off for way too long. So I think I came up with a decent design for my grid but im not too sure if its right and exactly what my next few steps should be.

I have 30 girls going right now (2 4x4 ebb and flow table seen in pics) adding another 10 in about 8 days...Im focusing on the one table with 20 in it already since that has the screen already and is a full table. They are at about 380ppm and 5.9ph and have just started to get moving pretty good about 5cm of new growth in past 2 days or so. good light green looking new growth. BUT, I have some questions for anyone with some good scrog knowledge.

Is my screen at a good height for my setup? about 6ft max clearance with the lights n mover. They are in a vegetative state right now on 18 hours and my main ide here is to fill the screen with as many bud sites as possible and fill the grid.

Should I train them and bend them back under the grid maybe even twist tie some? What is the best/fastest way to fill the entire grid? Im used to about 3 days veg max from my previous grows but I was seeing so much unused space between buds/plants. Ive put in a cpl pics for you to get a better idea of the setup. let me know any help/suggestions you have that might help me out I really do appreciate all critisism I can get. :)

Ps Just a small lesson id like to share..Yet once again my success was limited to the accuracy of the tools I use. I thought I had a humidity problem for the longest time earlier in this thread my RH gauge showed 80% on average. I was told to correct this so I went and bought the nicest dehumidifier I could find ($240) :mad:....Only to find the digital gauge on it showed 50% RH, I then went to buy a $10 digital temp/RH meter. sure as shit I was at about 30%.... lesson learned:mad: (dont use a hammer to kill a mosquito)