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View Full Version : The Biggest Lie Told To The American People: Ahmadinejad's Alleged Remarks On Israel



epxroot
11-26-2007, 11:49 PM
Sam Sedaei

As the Bush Administration beats the drums for another war of choice with another country that had nothing to do with 9/11, they are using another series of fabricated facts to indoctrinate the American people into thinking that Iran poses a serious threat to our security. At the core of these fabrications is the claim that on October 25, 2005, during a speech at the Ministry of Interior conference hall, the then newly-elected President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad remarked that "Israel must be wiped off the map." As someone who was born in Tehran, lived there for seventeen years and is a native Farsi speaker, I have read the original transcripts of the speech in Farsi and want to inform you that Ahmadinejad never said "Israel must be wiped off the map," but rather, his statement was grossly mistranslated and taken out of context, perhaps to help make a case for military action against Iran.

Let's analyze what Ahmadinejad said. His exact words in Farsi were as follows: "Emam goft een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzegar mahv shavad."

The correct translation of the statement is as follows: "Imam said this occupying regime in Jerusalem must vanish from the page of times."

And the word-to-word translation of the statement is as follows: Emam: Imam (Khomeini, leader of the 1979 revolution); Goft: said; Een: this; Rezhim-e eshghalgar: occupying regime; Qods: Jorusalem; Bayad: must; Az: from; Safheye: page of; Ruzegar: times; Mahv shaved: vanish.

There are several important points to understand about this quote:

1) The original transcript does not contain the words "Israel," "wipe off" or "map."

2) Ahmadinejad in fact misquoted Imam Khomeini who really said "sahneyeh roozegar," or "stage of times," not "safheyeh roozegar."

3) "Occupying regime in Jerusalem " does not refer to the state of Israel because the word "regime" does not mean "state" or "country." Merriam-Webster defines the term "regime" as a "mode of rule or management" or "a government in power." Furthermore, the terms "stage of times" or "page of times" both are highly abstract and metaphorical terms and cannot possibly be translated to "map," which is a real object illustrating countries with defined political borders. To translate "page of times" to "map" shows a conscious effort to give people the idea that Ahmadinejad's statement was not a metaphorical expression of discontent but a real foreign policy declaration. This effort becomes even clearer when one learns that Ahmadinejad used the verb "vanish" - not "wiped off" - to describe what he wished would happen to the regime in Israel. Vanish is a transitive verb, meaning "to disappear." By definition, disappearance is something that an object does to itself or naturally happens to it without an outside party's intervention. "Wipe off," on the other hand, has a strong emphasis on the party that does the wiping off. In other words, as opposed to vanishing, things can't wipe themselves off; they require some external force to do the wiping off. By translating "mahv shavad" to "wiped off" instead of the correct translation "vanish," the translators consciously framed Ahmadinejad as implying that an outside party - i.e. Iran, by implication - should have a role in wiping off the regime in Israel while he was merely wishing an outcome on a regime he did not agree with. He could have said "wiped off" or "Iran will (or shall) wipe Israel (or the regime in Israel) off the map," but he did not. The U.S.'s official translation of his statement misrepresents what Ahmadinejad said or meant.

4) The fact that Ahmadinejad specifically mentioned the occupation of Jerusalem indicates the main reason for his discontent. It is certainly legitimate for one to wish the fall or disappearance of a regime - "a government in power" - based on the policies that that government has pursued. American presidents, public officials and various activists - including this blogger - have openly expressed hope that the regime in Iran would vanish, although for different reasons. The United States ' official policy throughout the entire Cold War was to actively pursue policies that would lead to communist regimes vanishing, and some may argue, that policy continues today. And groups like "The World Can't Wait" openly hope for the end of what they call the "Bush Regime." And it only takes basic research to find out that the Israeli "regime" has been illegally occupying the West Bank and Gaza Strip, built settlements, built roads, expropriated land, deported, tortured and killed Palestinians, restricted freedom of movement, harmed the economy and made them impoverished for four decades, all in direct violation of international law and the Fourth Geneva Convention. And they have done all of this with U.S.'s aid and 47 vetoes of UN Security Council resolutions against Israel since the beginning of Reagan administration alone (Chomsky). Israeli regime has also militarily supported the military regime of Burma, which recently used Israeli weapons to kill pro-democracy civilians (British Jane's Intelligence Review). That is state sponsorship of terrorism. America is also a partner in this enterprise as it continues to give Israel 3 Billion Dollars of military aid every year. In fact, between one-third to one-fifth of the entire U.S.'s foreign aid goes to Israel each year.

Within that context, it is certainly a legitimate position to wish an outlaw regime that has defied the will and moral standards of the international community vanished and perhaps see it replaced with one that opposes apartheid. But to say that wishing a ruling regime, system of government of or ideology in a country vanished equates wishing that country vanished or the people in it harmed is an egregious departure from the truth.

Iranian regime's position on Israel is that there should be a referendum with both Jews and Arabs participating based on their right of self-determination to decide whether they want a single- or double-state solution. While Iran believes in a single-state solution, the country's official policy is to support the referendum. Besides, Iran has been issuing empty rhetoric against America and Israel since the 1979 revolution. Yet that is what they have been; empty rhetoric for domestic consumption, not a foreign policy doctrine. In fact, as opposed to the United States or Israel, Iran has not attacked a foreign country without provocation for over a hundred years.

I am fundamentally against the theocratic regime in Iran for its human rights violations and know that the reformist students' movement in Tehran can gain momentum again and lead to a nonviolent democratic change if given the time and opportunity. But as I speak with some of these students everyday, I sense how much anti-Ahmadinejad rhetoric from America is hurting their movement - especially when the rhetoric is based on lies - because those lies make it easier for the outlaw Iranian regime to call America out on those lies, undercut the West's legitimacy, rally the people around itself and cut the legs from under the pro-western reformers. One of these pro-democracy activists wrote to me the following in English on Sunday: "One should try to mainstream discussion of Israel in the US media. Israel is paranoid and paranoia in a place like the mid east is extremely dangerous. I dislike and despise A[h]madinejad, but I disagree with the way he's been portrayed and treated in the US. His reception at Colombia, for example, was every bit as despicable as he himself is! I think the greatest threa[t] to American hegemony is America's double standards. That's far more dangerous than Al Qaida."

Whether it is because of the fact that 60% of all the donations to the Republican Party or candidates come from Jewish sources (Washington Post) or that four out of five largest media conglomerates in America are Jewish (Jewish Times of Los Angeles), Israel and "The Lobby" - i.e. AIPAC - have been dominating American foreign policies, especially those toward countries in the Middle East. And it is as part of their desperate effort to make a false case for attacking Iran that the Bush administration has employed the most deceptive and manipulative practices - such as grossly mistranslating Ahmadinejad's statements and lying about the idea that Ahmadinejad wants Israel off the map - to manufacture a false image of world affairs and create a false context within which he could sell another disastrous war of choice to the American people.

Psycho4Bud
11-27-2007, 12:30 AM
Blair said Ahmadinejad's comment was "completely and totally unacceptable."

In a joint statement, the E.U. leaders "condemned in the strongest terms" the Iranian president's call, saying it "will cause concern about Iran's role in the region and its future intentions." President Jacques Chirac of France told reporters that Ahmadinejad risked Iran "being left on the outside of other nations."

Russia's foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, in Israel, called the Iranian president's statement "unacceptable."

The statement was widely reported in the Arab world; leaders there reacted for the most part with silence. Most Arab countries have no diplomatic relations with Israel. But the Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erekat, said, according to the Associated Press: "We have recognized the state of Israel and we are pursuing a peace process with Israel, and . . . we do not accept the statements of the president of Iran. This is unacceptable."
World Leaders Condemn Iranian's Call to Wipe Israel 'Off the Map' (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102702221.html)

Nobody in the Western world, Russia, or the Middle East knows how to translate the Iranian language?

Have a good one!:s4:

Ozarks
11-27-2007, 02:14 AM
Sam Sedaei

As the Bush Administration beats the drums for another war of choice with another country that had nothing to do with 9/11, they are using another series of fabricated facts to indoctrinate the American people into thinking that Iran poses a serious threat to our security. At the core of these fabrications is the claim that on October 25, 2005, during a speech at the Ministry of Interior conference hall, the then newly-elected President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad remarked that "Israel must be wiped off the map." As someone who was born in Tehran, lived there for seventeen years and is a native Farsi speaker, I have read the original transcripts of the speech in Farsi and want to inform you that Ahmadinejad never said "Israel must be wiped off the map," but rather, his statement was grossly mistranslated and taken out of context, perhaps to help make a case for military action against Iran.

Let's analyze what Ahmadinejad said. His exact words in Farsi were as follows: "Emam goft een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzegar mahv shavad."

The correct translation of the statement is as follows: "Imam said this occupying regime in Jerusalem must vanish from the page of times."

And the word-to-word translation of the statement is as follows: Emam: Imam (Khomeini, leader of the 1979 revolution); Goft: said; Een: this; Rezhim-e eshghalgar: occupying regime; Qods: Jorusalem; Bayad: must; Az: from; Safheye: page of; Ruzegar: times; Mahv shaved: vanish.

There are several important points to understand about this quote:

1) The original transcript does not contain the words "Israel," "wipe off" or "map."

2) Ahmadinejad in fact misquoted Imam Khomeini who really said "sahneyeh roozegar," or "stage of times," not "safheyeh roozegar."

3) "Occupying regime in Jerusalem " does not refer to the state of Israel because the word "regime" does not mean "state" or "country." Merriam-Webster defines the term "regime" as a "mode of rule or management" or "a government in power." Furthermore, the terms "stage of times" or "page of times" both are highly abstract and metaphorical terms and cannot possibly be translated to "map," which is a real object illustrating countries with defined political borders. To translate "page of times" to "map" shows a conscious effort to give people the idea that Ahmadinejad's statement was not a metaphorical expression of discontent but a real foreign policy declaration. This effort becomes even clearer when one learns that Ahmadinejad used the verb "vanish" - not "wiped off" - to describe what he wished would happen to the regime in Israel. Vanish is a transitive verb, meaning "to disappear." By definition, disappearance is something that an object does to itself or naturally happens to it without an outside party's intervention. "Wipe off," on the other hand, has a strong emphasis on the party that does the wiping off. In other words, as opposed to vanishing, things can't wipe themselves off; they require some external force to do the wiping off. By translating "mahv shavad" to "wiped off" instead of the correct translation "vanish," the translators consciously framed Ahmadinejad as implying that an outside party - i.e. Iran, by implication - should have a role in wiping off the regime in Israel while he was merely wishing an outcome on a regime he did not agree with. He could have said "wiped off" or "Iran will (or shall) wipe Israel (or the regime in Israel) off the map," but he did not. The U.S.'s official translation of his statement misrepresents what Ahmadinejad said or meant.

4) The fact that Ahmadinejad specifically mentioned the occupation of Jerusalem indicates the main reason for his discontent. It is certainly legitimate for one to wish the fall or disappearance of a regime - "a government in power" - based on the policies that that government has pursued. American presidents, public officials and various activists - including this blogger - have openly expressed hope that the regime in Iran would vanish, although for different reasons. The United States ' official policy throughout the entire Cold War was to actively pursue policies that would lead to communist regimes vanishing, and some may argue, that policy continues today. And groups like "The World Can't Wait" openly hope for the end of what they call the "Bush Regime." And it only takes basic research to find out that the Israeli "regime" has been illegally occupying the West Bank and Gaza Strip, built settlements, built roads, expropriated land, deported, tortured and killed Palestinians, restricted freedom of movement, harmed the economy and made them impoverished for four decades, all in direct violation of international law and the Fourth Geneva Convention. And they have done all of this with U.S.'s aid and 47 vetoes of UN Security Council resolutions against Israel since the beginning of Reagan administration alone (Chomsky). Israeli regime has also militarily supported the military regime of Burma, which recently used Israeli weapons to kill pro-democracy civilians (British Jane's Intelligence Review). That is state sponsorship of terrorism. America is also a partner in this enterprise as it continues to give Israel 3 Billion Dollars of military aid every year. In fact, between one-third to one-fifth of the entire U.S.'s foreign aid goes to Israel each year.

Within that context, it is certainly a legitimate position to wish an outlaw regime that has defied the will and moral standards of the international community vanished and perhaps see it replaced with one that opposes apartheid. But to say that wishing a ruling regime, system of government of or ideology in a country vanished equates wishing that country vanished or the people in it harmed is an egregious departure from the truth.

Iranian regime's position on Israel is that there should be a referendum with both Jews and Arabs participating based on their right of self-determination to decide whether they want a single- or double-state solution. While Iran believes in a single-state solution, the country's official policy is to support the referendum. Besides, Iran has been issuing empty rhetoric against America and Israel since the 1979 revolution. Yet that is what they have been; empty rhetoric for domestic consumption, not a foreign policy doctrine. In fact, as opposed to the United States or Israel, Iran has not attacked a foreign country without provocation for over a hundred years.

I am fundamentally against the theocratic regime in Iran for its human rights violations and know that the reformist students' movement in Tehran can gain momentum again and lead to a nonviolent democratic change if given the time and opportunity. But as I speak with some of these students everyday, I sense how much anti-Ahmadinejad rhetoric from America is hurting their movement - especially when the rhetoric is based on lies - because those lies make it easier for the outlaw Iranian regime to call America out on those lies, undercut the West's legitimacy, rally the people around itself and cut the legs from under the pro-western reformers. One of these pro-democracy activists wrote to me the following in English on Sunday: "One should try to mainstream discussion of Israel in the US media. Israel is paranoid and paranoia in a place like the mid east is extremely dangerous. I dislike and despise A[h]madinejad, but I disagree with the way he's been portrayed and treated in the US. His reception at Colombia, for example, was every bit as despicable as he himself is! I think the greatest threa[t] to American hegemony is America's double standards. That's far more dangerous than Al Qaida."

Whether it is because of the fact that 60% of all the donations to the Republican Party or candidates come from Jewish sources (Washington Post) or that four out of five largest media conglomerates in America are Jewish (Jewish Times of Los Angeles), Israel and "The Lobby" - i.e. AIPAC - have been dominating American foreign policies, especially those toward countries in the Middle East. And it is as part of their desperate effort to make a false case for attacking Iran that the Bush administration has employed the most deceptive and manipulative practices - such as grossly mistranslating Ahmadinejad's statements and lying about the idea that Ahmadinejad wants Israel off the map - to manufacture a false image of world affairs and create a false context within which he could sell another disastrous war of choice to the American people.



Racist,anti semantic propaganda :wtf:

Staurm
11-27-2007, 02:21 AM
There is no doubt about how the Arab world chooses to interpret our actions.

Gandalf_The_Grey
11-27-2007, 03:04 AM
Blair said Ahmadinejad's comment was "completely and totally unacceptable."

In a joint statement, the E.U. leaders "condemned in the strongest terms" the Iranian president's call, saying it "will cause concern about Iran's role in the region and its future intentions." President Jacques Chirac of France told reporters that Ahmadinejad risked Iran "being left on the outside of other nations."

Russia's foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, in Israel, called the Iranian president's statement "unacceptable."

The statement was widely reported in the Arab world; leaders there reacted for the most part with silence. Most Arab countries have no diplomatic relations with Israel. But the Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erekat, said, according to the Associated Press: "We have recognized the state of Israel and we are pursuing a peace process with Israel, and . . . we do not accept the statements of the president of Iran. This is unacceptable."
World Leaders Condemn Iranian's Call to Wipe Israel 'Off the Map' (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102702221.html)

Nobody in the Western world, Russia, or the Middle East knows how to translate the Iranian language?

Have a good one!:s4:

All I see here is that the statements are "unacceptable", and they would be considered as such when the very regime Ahmadinejad wants gone is an ally of these nations. The main point of the article here is that Ahmadinejad did not say he wanted to whipe Israel off the map. That this lie is constantly perpetuated is an exceptionally disgraceful form of propoganda.

Psycho4Bud
11-27-2007, 04:19 AM
All I see here is that the statements are "unacceptable", and they would be considered as such when the very regime Ahmadinejad wants gone is an ally of these nations. The main point of the article here is that Ahmadinejad did not say he wanted to whipe Israel off the map. That this lie is constantly perpetuated is an exceptionally disgraceful form of propoganda.

Click on the link and read the entire story. This is a disgusting twist on the facts. Trying to distort a statement translated the same in several countries is a bit over the edge.

By the way, do a bit of reading on Sam Sedaei.....his writings speak for themselves.

Have a good one!:s4:

epxroot
11-27-2007, 12:52 PM
Racist,anti semantic propaganda :wtf:

How did you ever come to this conclusion?

epxroot
11-27-2007, 12:57 PM
Click on the link and read the entire story. This is a disgusting twist on the facts. Trying to distort a statement translated the same in several countries is a bit over the edge.

By the way, do a bit of reading on Sam Sedaei.....his writings speak for themselves.

Have a good one!:s4:

How is a twist on the facts? Can you understand the Iranian language? Just because someone says something different does not make it true.

Ozarks
11-27-2007, 01:44 PM
How did you ever come to this conclusion?

It's 9 paragraphs of what the "definition of is,is." To justify some nutball who wants murder people "in the name of his God"

Of course the last paragraph is save to justify/blame it on the "the Jewish lobby" :rolleyes:

And of course the 1st sentence of the story is reserved to blame President Bush for it all.

Psycho4Bud
11-27-2007, 02:17 PM
How is a twist on the facts? Can you understand the Iranian language? Just because someone says something different does not make it true.

When the translators from the U.S., Russia, Palistine, and the European Union all come together on an issue why should I believe this individual? His writtings show where his mind set is at.........I agree with Ozarks, this guy is a racist. And people wonder why Israel should fear Iran.

Have a good one!:s4:

epxroot
11-27-2007, 09:28 PM
When the translators from the U.S., Russia, Palistine, and the European Union all come together on an issue why should I believe this individual? His writtings show where his mind set is at.........I agree with Ozarks, this guy is a racist. And people wonder why Israel should fear Iran.

Have a good one!:s4:

My my my. I ask the both of you to point out these so called racist/anti semantic propaganda that he is spewing out in this article. Maybe I am just blind to these things and can't see it in this article.

Psycho4Bud
11-27-2007, 11:03 PM
My my my. I ask the both of you to point out these so called racist/anti semantic propaganda that he is spewing out in this article. Maybe I am just blind to these things and can't see it in this article.

3/4 of the last paragraph not to mention I've read some of his other articles. It's pretty safe to conclude that this person is anti-Israel.

Have a good one!:s4:

psychocat
11-27-2007, 11:13 PM
I speak a couple of languages and the "lost in translation" aspect of language is something I have often struggled with.
Try translating any language and you will be confronted with the difficulty of context and multiple meanings. The English language is very versatile and is full of virtualy untranslateable sayings, I believe translators the world over are guilty of the "lost in translation" trap.
Just off the top of my head I think of the old theater saying "break a leg" , now imagine trying to explain to someone that you aren't wishing bad luck on them , in fact it means good luck but that just isn't said in the theater.

thcbongman
11-28-2007, 01:30 AM
Racist,anti semantic propaganda :wtf:

Is it really?

If you aren't jewish, and you are an Israeli citizen, you are treated in a 2nd class manner. It's terrible the discrimination they face when it comes to jobs, access to resources, and security. Why should anything mentioning any opposition to Israel be considered anti-semantic? I don't support the racism and prejudice by Israel. I don't support the violence by arabs, but violence doesn't come from anywhere. It's continued to be perpetuated by the policies of Israel with intent to create an all Jewish state, map their borders so they acquire all the water resources.

Ahmadinejad maybe extreme, but some of his points have some truth.

To this day, I don't understand why the USA is allied with them. Not only that, but we fund it, when we have more domestics priorities that are of more importance.

Ozarks
11-28-2007, 12:43 PM
My my my. I ask the both of you to point out these so called racist/anti semantic propaganda that he is spewing out in this article. Maybe I am just blind to these things and can't see it in this article.

I don't usually respond to this racist hate because its pathetic and sick but believing that you may sincere.




Ahmadinejad used the verb "vanish" - not "wiped off" - to describe what he wished would happen to the regime in Israel. Vanish is a transitive verb, meaning "to disappear."


What twisted word games, "vanish", "wipe off" gone is gone.




there should be a referendum with both Jews and Arabs participating based on their right of self-determination to decide whether they want a single- or double-state solution.


There are forty countries at conference in Maryland meeting as I type this, THE ONLY PRE-CONDITION is that they are ALL committed to a TWO state solution. The ONE country that DID NOT show up Iran.




While Iran believes in a single-state solution,


That's a euphemism for extermination,genocide, murder or what ever word is vogue now days. 60 years ago they called it "the final solution"



the country's official policy is to support the referendum



Nonsense, if that was truth they would be in Maryland, instead of calling the other attendees, including their Alli Syria names for "surrendering to the Zionists"




The fact that Ahmadinejad specifically mentioned the occupation of Jerusalem indicates the main reason for his discontent.


So, if Israel gives up Jerusalem, the mullahs in Tehran will be happy and join the rest of the world in supporting (peaceful coexistence) the two state solution. Do you really believe that ?




It is certainly legitimate for one to wish the fall or disappearance of a regime - "a government in power" - based on the policies that that government has pursued.


Remember this quote, it shows that the actions of America and its allies are legitimate and acceptable.




Is it really?


Yes, it is.





Ahmadinejad maybe extreme, but some of his points have some truth.


No, they don't