Breeding for Seeds

[timmyD123]

I was told that inbreeding F1's is a bad idea. I have been looking at some Lowlife auto-flowering strains to fill in some gaps in my growroom but the seeds are kind of pricey. Could someone with some knowledge of genetics explain to me what would happen if I were to cross AutoAK-47 x AutoAK-47? Because I can't clone these auto flowering plants, I want to make seeds the first time around so I don't go broke.
Automatic AK47 (http://www.drchronic.com/products.asp?partno=Lowlife%20%20Auto%20Ak47)

[timmyD123]

are these even F1's? what is a fricking F1!

[Dutch Pimp]

I'm in a crash course on breeding for seeds too!...reading ...reading ...reading.

1. 2 female white widows, 1 male white widow...from F1 seeds.
Since WW's are a hybrid to start with; would seeds made have good qualities like the parents?....or would they not be any better than bag seeds?

2. In the second week of flowering, separated the male. What is the average week that males drop their pollen?

3. What week you use the pollen?...ASAP? dust one female with pixie dust? put one female in the same room?

[Rusty Trichome]

You'll end up with AutoAK 2209. (kidding) Should be fine, I believe, but I don't often work with auto flowering breeds on purpose.

Dutch: From what I understand:
1. Depends on the source/breeder. I believe the reputable breeders back-cross in an attempt to stabilize a hybrid strain so that the future offspring are consistent. For how many generations it remains consistent, I have no idea. I do know I finally had sucess breeding (virtually all of) the Early Wonder out of a Swazi (sativa skunk) x Early Wonder (auto-flower) cross I had. No more auto-flowering skunk.

2. With the lights I use, I usually get pollen sacks opening by the fourth or fifth week. Results will vary depending on strain.

3. Since I only let a male grow in emergencies, I apply pollen with a small horsehair artists brush, on lower branches (actually, the pistols) of my fems as soon as it's collected. Usually, tho...I stress a female, for her pollen.

HTH...Rusty

[Dutch Pimp]

Wow...it only been two weeks and 5 days into 12/12, and my male WW is dropping pollen. Or I accidently knocked some of the pods open trying to give the plant water. I got pollen all over me.

If I opened the pods prematurely, is it good to go?

[Rusty Trichome]

Yup. Should be good to go. But since there are fems in the room, you most likely have some fresh seeds brewing already.

[Dutch Pimp]

No...separate rooms and I took a shower and washed the clothes. Now, I got to go find a horsehair brush.......(and all the horses around here, hate me)....:D

[twoguysupnorth]

you would likely end up with a few varriences. some being like the parents some being like the parents of the parents.

[Rusty Trichome]

I usually try to pollinate (and tag as pollinated with a twist-tie) the lowest branches, in case the main cola's are ready before the seeds. Then, I can just snip the main stem above the 'seed-line' and keep the rest of the plant in flower till seeds are more than ready. I've harvested too early plenty of times, ending up with half-baked seeds. (yellow, immature, too small for viability...) So now I give them some extra 'quality time'.
Good luck with 'em.

[Rusty Trichome]

No...separate rooms and I took a shower and washed the clothes. Now, I got to go find a horsehair brush.......(and all the horses around here, hate me)....:D

A Q-tip with most of the fuzzies removed works well, too.

[Dutch Pimp]

Got it Rusty, thanks for the help...:thumbsup:

Got the horse hair brush....boy, did the horses hate that, being plucked....:stoned:

ps...will the seeds look dark at the correct harvest time, or does that happen later?

[twoguysupnorth]

the seeds should be dark when they come of the plant and just about falling off if they arent already.

[klondike_bar]

i personally just touched all the undropped, open sacks with my figer til it had a good coating of white and then petted the specified female buds with it. did so at about 3 weeks flowering.

the affected pistils then curled, oranged, and appeared to die. the calyxs look bigger now tho, so im guessing its a success. however, more new, unpollinated pistils are popping up in the same buds, so im gonna have to pick seeds from smokables...

despite what may be said about this method, it worked well, and upon exam of the other 3 plants, ther are maybe 3-4 different buds that have one or 2 sets of pistils dying, so im guessing i kept the spreading of pollin very minimal which is good.


when will the seeds be ready? do they and thier host bud finish same time as the rest of the unpollinated buds, or earlier because thier job is done? and will the seeds fall out or need picking out?

[Rusty Trichome]

i personally just touched all the undropped, open sacks with my figer til it had a good coating of white and then petted the specified female buds with it. did so at about 3 weeks flowering.

the affected pistils then curled, oranged, and appeared to die. the calyxs look bigger now tho, so im guessing its a success. however, more new, unpollinated pistils are popping up in the same buds, so im gonna have to pick seeds from smokables...

despite what may be said about this method, it worked well, and upon exam of the other 3 plants, ther are maybe 3-4 different buds that have one or 2 sets of pistils dying, so im guessing i kept the spreading of pollin very minimal which is good.


when will the seeds be ready? do they and thier host bud finish same time as the rest of the unpollinated buds, or earlier because thier job is done? and will the seeds fall out or need picking out?

Improper handling of the pollen can result in:
A) the pollen's death.
B) pollen getting all over the grow room and grower, thus resulting in seeds where you don't want 'em.

I always harvest that part of the plant I didn't pollinate, so I can let the seeds mature a bit more. If you harvest them too early, seeds may not be viable (won't germinate) and you can end-up with shitloads of tiny seeds that pop when they get smoked. I take a seed sample at the plants normal harvest time, then once a week thereafter. Yellow or tan seeds...give more time. Brown with dark spots or dark brown...perfect.

[Dutch Pimp]

Fixin' to do this today or tomorrow.

After I spread the pixie dust?...what's next? My 2 females are close together in the closet. Should I separate?. Turn all fans off for awhile?

Seems, I read once, you should mist with water, sometime afterwards, to lay the pollen down?

[Rusty Trichome]

Fixin' to do this today or tomorrow.

After I spread the pixie dust?...what's next? My 2 females are close together in the closet. Should I separate?. Turn all fans off for awhile?

Seems, I read once, you should mist with water, sometime afterwards, to lay the pollen down?

You'd really want to turn fans off before/during pollination, or pollinate in seperate room and use care to not spray water on the pollinated pistols for a day or two. (water kills pollen)
In a week or two you'll start to see the formation of the seed(s). 6-8 weeks are usually enough for seed development, depending on strain, lighting...
After 6 weeks I pull off (and unwrap) one of the seeds to check for maturity. I do this every week or so from there. Yellow or tan seeds are not quite viable. You'll want to see brown, brown with spots or dark brown seeds.

[Dutch Pimp]

Thanks...RT...:thumbsup:

[Dutch Pimp]

Well...I did this the only way I know how. It was the end of the daily 12/12 cycle; at 9am this morning. So I put the one very nice female in a separate dark room and "painted" the lower bud sites with a pencil brush, dosed with pollen.

Come 9pm tonight, she will need to go back into the lighted grow room close to the other female. If the pollen spreads; O...well..there nothing I can do about that. I only have the one light. I will leave the fans off for a few days and hope the pollen does not spread too much.

Film at eleven.....:pimp:

[Rusty Trichome]

Should be just fine. :jointsmile:

[the image reaper]

the EASY way to pollinate only a single branch, etc ... just drop an opened male flower into a small sandwich baggie, and stick it over the end of a branch ... shake it a little, leave it on overnite ... CAREFULLY remove the bag, and mist the rest of the plant (water destroys the pollen) if you are concerned your fans will spread the pollen too much ... :smokin:

[Dutch Pimp]

Should be just fine. :jointsmile:

...you gotter otter..:thumbsup:...everything worked fine....and even the seeded lower popcorn buds ....have a nice kick to them....:stoned:

200 white widow seeds ...and counting. How long before I try germinating? ...most are dark green/gray...good size.

[keeko]

good to hear everything worked out fine.....i have read somewhere to let the seeds "dry" for about two weeks before germing....not sure why but just some 2nd hand info.
Im sure they would even germ without letting them "dry"

[Dutch Pimp]

good to hear everything worked out fine.....i have read somewhere to let the seeds "dry" for about two weeks before germing....not sure why but just some 2nd hand info.
Im sure they would even germ without letting them "dry"
Thanks...keeko....that's the second time I've heard the same advice....:thumbsup:

I'm busy with papaya seedlings in-progress now...the WW will have to wait their turn...:jointsmile:

[middieman440]

hey guys im starting my grow of auto ak/blueberry f1 no clue what f1 means besides the moon on the key board lol.but yeah im doing 3 of them with cfl's and will be hopefully getting at least 1 male 2 females as long as i get one of each im happy..i will be letting the males grow out for at least 7 weeks to insure the ladies get pregnant..i want at least 50 seeds but want much more is this possible..how long should i let the male stay alive to get 50 seeds...any info would be cool thanks

[Dutch Pimp]

Leave the male alive long enough to drop it's pollen. That is about 3-4 weeks into the 12/12 flowering cycle.

The more pistils on the female plant...the more seeded buds, you get. even one bud can have "a lot" of seeds.

[Rusty Trichome]

How long before I try germinating?

Good job. I let them sit-out for a week in a pie pan, then I re-clean them, making sure to remove all of the vegetable matter. From there, into a spice jar, then into the freezer for a week. After thawing them in the pie pan, they're good to go.

I store mine in spice jars from those lazy-susan spice racks, in a dark corner of my closet. I use those plant marker stakes to mark strain and date, and keep it inside the spice jar with the seeds.

[Dutch Pimp]

I left the seeds; (mentioned in this thread), in the buds during the drying/curing cycle. I didn't take the seeds out of the buds, until I was ready to use the bud....:jointsmile:...so ....

...that means the seeds stayed in the buds, (in the jars) from March to October '08. I took them out as needed and placed them in a pill bottle, with a little dry rice.

I did a test germination in October '08; with 6 seeds, and all germinated. In Feb '09, 37 out of 38 were sucessfully germinated.

[Rusty Trichome]

Ahh. I dry-out the lower (seeded) brances in the open air, then remove seeds, rather than to cure them. Had one of my early attempts get a tad moldy, and have never felt the need to repeat that technique, lol. The shake from the seeded buds usually lasts us long enough for the remainder of the buds to get a decent cure.

[Dutch Pimp]

In Feb '09, 37 out of 38 were sucessfully germinated.

oopps...typo...:wtf:...that, should be 19 out of 20.

[Tendril.traY]

when she fer shure swellen up with seed must you keep the light on 11/13 or can z switch back to 17/7???

z in the process of this same crossroad

mendo bs1\\
mendo bs2--female--x,x,> x,y <cracker jack male>
mendo bs3//


z breeding for the outdoor strain

big seeds and big buds is what z working with

xcept the seed i started with were both little seed, and now the seed in the above mendo123 have nearly dobule
the parent seed, in size and their not done.

they fucked about three weeks ago lol:thumbsup: and they bust out the pods but they green like:wtf3::wtf3: peas on roids


like this little smily:D

rofl lol hahahahahaha pckkkkk cough cough cough LOLOLOL

}passing the joint to the top

soo can i turn the light cycle bak or what ??

are ferts good for seed production or keep with the plain water ???



p.s. :wtf: i murked kracker jack kid :rambohead:(the male met the fate of a widow)

[the image reaper]

OK, I give up ... waiting for that to be translated :wtf:

[oSecretGardeno]

I second that reaper lol.

[Rusty Trichome]

when she fer shure swellen up with seed must you keep the light on 11/13 or can z switch back to 17/7???
I've tried re-vegging a few pollinated ladies over the years, and the seeds have always rotted on the plant. Would stick with 12/12 till the seeds are mature. Also, switching while plant is seeded, is likely not good for the genetics of the strain. I have no proof of this, just a theory I have, that messing with the plant while she's developing the seeds, the seeds may suffer genetic damage from hormonal stress. When a plant switches from veg to flower (or the other way around) the genetics may be altered by the imbalances.


big seeds and big buds is what z working with
xcept the seed i started with were both little seed, and now the seed in the above mendo123 have nearly dobule
the parent seed, in size and their not done.
Big seeds do not mean big plants. My biggest plants (Swazi Skunk) have tiny seeds, but most of my indica doms have large seeds. Size isn't the key...seed maturity is, though.


passing the joint to the top Rusty takes toke... :jointsmile: <hack, cough, gasp> ...good shit...needs to cure for a week or so longer, though. :thumbsup:


are ferts good for seed production or keep with the plain water ??? I treat my seeded ladies the same as unseeded ones. Same nutes, same schedule.

[Dutch Pimp]

Homemade seeds are a trip...I love it...:thumbsup:

a pic of the grandbaby!...it was grown by a friend

[Joefarmer]

Great thread!

If I give my seeded plant some N to aid in seed development, will this interfere with the end product?, ie potency, finish time, etc? I'm gonna have a shit ton of BlueCityDiesel seeds. More than expected, but I'll take em'.

[Dutch Pimp]

the seeds should be dark when they come of the plant and just about falling off if they arent already.

I didn't have a single seed fall out. I didn't even know I had seeds?...until I broke the buds apart, months, later....:wtf:
....99% mature, dark seeds


you would likely end up with a few varriences. some being like the parents some being like the parents of the parents.

Yes. ...every word of this is true. I still have those seeds, to this day. Last batch produced 5 out of 6 females....:D


Below: a pic of Dear Old Mom & Aunt Busty(2007)....and pics of the grandkids!...2010

[GaGrown]

Heres a tip that will help get you some of your favorite seeds and keep the strains going or make a hybrid.

Grow a male and collect the pollen. Take a small water color paintbrush and dip into collected pollen. Brush the pistils of your female on 1 or 2 of the buds and those are the only buds that will produce seed. You need to do this early in flower,so the seeds will mature. Everthing else will be seedless.:thumbsup:

[canniwhatsis]

Heres a tip that will help get you some of your favorite seeds and keep the strains going or make a hybrid.

Grow a male and collect the pollen. Take a small water color paintbrush and dip into collected pollen. Brush the pistils of your female on 1 or 2 of the buds and those are the only buds that will produce seed. You need to do this early in flower,so the seeds will mature. Everthing else will be seedless.:thumbsup:

I did exactly this with my WW. Now I'm just fingers crossed that I didn't get too much pollen in the rest of the room.


P.S. I turned off ALL Circulation in my room before even bringing the vial of pollen into my bud room, then lightly misted the room with water to knock any stray pollen down before re-starting my fans.:hippy:

[GaGrown]

I should have mentioned to turn off ya fans. You could put a clear plastic bag over the bud and twist tie it,so you can turn ya fans back on!:thumbsup::jointsmile:

[GaGrown]

Homemade seeds are a trip...I love it...:thumbsup:

a pic of the grandbaby!...it was grown by a friend

Pimp,
Anythang homegrown is got to be better! That's where the trip come into play!:thumbsup: