LSTTT: Low Stress Twisty Tie Training

[Opie Yutts]

Here's a temporary DWC set up I've got going while I'm trying to get a little grow room remodeling done. I'm going to LST these and see if I can't get a bunch of bud sites to put in my stadium screen. I put them in the system 13 days ago. I can't figure out if I like topping and FIMing better than LST. These plants are from some severely abused and ignored clones. I can't believe they turned out as good as they did.

I thought some people might be interested in seeing a couple before and after tie-down pictures. I keep seeing people tying string around things to keep branches down, but I think this twisty-tie method is easier and faster. I've tried string, and tried taping it to things, but often the tape comes loose. Whenever I get a twisty tie I throw it in a drawer. They are very handy for all kinds of things, especially LST. I also bought a big roll of the stuff for $2, but can't find the damn thing now. Oh well the individual ones work just fine. If you need a piece longer than you have, you just twist two together.

You just make a little U-shape at the bottom and top of the twisty, and hook it on a branch and the lip of a pot or whatever is handy. When you want to make the branch go lower, just make the bend(s) for the U-shape a little closer to the center of the twisty. If you have to pull fairly hard on a branch, the U won't do, so you make a loop around the branch.

[Opie Yutts]

I'll let these recover for a couple days then pull them down a little more.

And the after pictures:

[Hennessy1414]

can you LST a clone right away or should you let the roots set up? kinda random but they looks like clones :rastasmoke:

[Storm Crow]

I use twist ties and bamboo skewers from the Dollar store. Cheap and easy! My plants are only 6 to 12 inches high but they fill the 18 x 24 tubs. - Granny:hippy:

[Opie Yutts]

can you LST a clone right away or should you let the roots set up? kinda random but they looks like clones :rastasmoke:

Any time you need to stress a plant, you should try and do it in stages. Too much at one time may just make the plant decide to give up. So taking a clone out of the cloner is one stress, and LST is another, so they should be done at different times. Also it would be pretty hard to pull the branches every which way when the plants don't have a hold of some medium with their roots. If you start with bigger than normal clones I suppose you could put them in your system, and pull the branches around at the same time, but I would not recommend it. It's even a good idea to LST in stages instead of all at once. Once they recover from being pulled apart a little, then I LST again, pulling them down farther where they will stay. From there it's pretty much training every day.

[Opie Yutts]

I use twist ties and bamboo skewers from the Dollar store. Cheap and easy! My plants are only 6 to 12 inches high but they fill the 18 x 24 tubs. - Granny:hippy:

Wow. Seems like a lot of foliage.

[Hennessy1414]

Any time you need to stress a plant, you should try and do it in stages. Too much at one time may just make the plant decide to give up. So taking a clone out of the cloner is one stress, and LST is another, so they should be done at different times. Also it would be pretty hard to pull the branches every which way when the plants don't have a hold of some medium with their roots. If you start with bigger than normal clones I suppose you could put them in your system, and pull the branches around at the same time, but I would not recommend it. It's even a good idea to LST in stages instead of all at once. Once they recover from being pulled apart a little, then I LST again, pulling them down farther where they will stay. From there it's pretty much training every day.

when do you take clone cuttings fro ma mother plant? 2 weeks before harvest or what? :rastasmoke:

[Opie Yutts]

That's about right. However, my plants in the flower section are done in 2 months, while they only need 5 or 6 weeks in the veg section. To keep the SOG system going, I don't have to put rooted clones into veg as soon as I take the grown ones out. So sometimes I take cuttings a couple weeks before harvest, but sometimes I wait until after harvest by a few days. I'm allowing 2 weeks for clones to get rooted, but sometimes they are ready before that. Depends on several things, especially what part of the mother I took the cuttings from.

[Gundari]

I just burnt holes int he sides of the bucket the plant lives in and use some soft string to tie her up, and i must say i LOVE the lst method. I cant wait for my second grow im gonna take a shot at F.I.M.ing early on and lst after the F.I.M. takes hold. Heres a the most recent picture of my girl...she really likes being tied up ^^.


edit: hmmm website or my internet doesn't seem happy about pictures right now so perhaps ill try again later.

[Opie Yutts]

Gundari, does the picture fit into the specifications for uploading? If you click "go advanced" then "manage attachments" a window will open where you upload your pictures, and it will tell you the limitations for uploading stuff. The picture isn't like 3 Meg or something?

[Gundari]

aye it fits, ive put the pictures up on or two other threads. I think its my internets...they've been bitchy today.

[Gundari]

here they are ^^

[Zcomp]

Opie,
As if Hydro didn't produce enough all alone, Your gonna supersize it with LSTing. :jointsmile:
Thats gonna be pretty wild. I can't wait to see more.

[klondike_bar]

this will be an interesting grow to keep an eye on...

[Gundari]

Opies? yea he always has kick ass grows and makes me jealous!

[klondike_bar]

well....mine are 29 inches tall cuz i have insufficient lighting!!!! taller=better=i win!!! nananabooboo :p :p

[Gundari]

makes me wonder what the collective height of mine would be by now if i hadnt lst'd it.

edit: either way...still so jealous of opie :-p

[Opie Yutts]

Gundari, you've got some nice looking weed there too. No need to be jealous of me. I'm just like most people. I just kinda make it up as I go along, and try to gain a little knowledge from the experiences.

Strom Crow, any chance I could get a picture showing how you use those skewers? Do you just stick em in soil and twisty branches to them?

Everyone, thanks so much for the compliments. Since there seems to be an interest, I'll try to posts some photos as the grow progresses.

[Gundari]

aye she's not bad for a first grow, but I love looking over your grow threads. They are so cool ^^.

[Opie Yutts]

The "before" 2nd tie down photos first, the second two are of the same plant, which is the biggest of the bunch. The one in the upper right has already been tied down for the second time.

[Opie Yutts]

And the "after" 2nd tie down photos. The 3rd one is a close up of the biggest plant, which is the same plant as in the "before" close ups. A bunch of bud sites a coming. The last photo is a jerry-rigged light, of which I put one set on each side of the grow to supplement the 600W HPS. I thought it needed some blue. They are 23 W each and 5500K daylight bulbs, for a total of 400W equivalent additional. Should help. I know tinfoil sucks, but it's better than letting the bulbs stick out past the reflector, and I wasn't going to spend any more money on this grow.

[Opie Yutts]

As you can see I experimented with taping down branches with foil duct tape, but I have my doubts as to how well the tape will stick once it heats up in there tomorrow morning.

And does anybody know what in the world those cloud-like ghosty things are in some of my photos? I see them in some other peoples' photos too.

[Gundari]

Well in my opinoin the anwser is obvious. Your plants are haunted, as are theirs.

[iriebowl]

i use "sturdy-twists" its the same as twist ties but comes in a 50 meter roll and only costs a couple bucks. its great for LST since you can make the ties any length and are easy to put on and remove. check my grow log to see what i mean.

those ghostly orbs are most likely dust refracting light during the camera flash or cfls, guess i been watching to much ghost hunters to know that lol.

[Zcomp]

Aww. you ruined my theory of past plants spirits protecting new plants.
Thats great lookin opie. Is that a bunch of seedlings on the side?
Also opie, Your gonna use a stadium scrog? I used that my first real grow. This time I tried flat and I can say, I see a huge difference(for the better).

[Opie Yutts]

Aww. you ruined my theory of past plants spirits protecting new plants.
Thats great lookin opie. Is that a bunch of seedlings on the side?
Also opie, Your gonna use a stadium scrog? I used that my first real grow. This time I tried flat and I can say, I see a huge difference(for the better).

Yeah, I was hoping they were some friendly ghosts too. Yeah, going to use a stadium, since the shape of the HPS light intensity is in a ball. I've found that with a flat screen and HID lighting, the ones in the middle grow much faster, and I end up with a Christmas tree shaped grow, with the tip of the tree pointing at the light. Also with a stadium screen you get a little more surface area. (?15% more?) Why do you like a flat one better? What is the huge difference? Oh wait, if I remember correctly you are using a homemade reflector with several CFLs. I'm not sure, but I'm betting a flat screen might be better for this.

[klondike_bar]

id naturally assume that past plant spirits would be upset at not having experienced pollination and having been axe-murdered by you....

[Zcomp]

Your right on that one opie. I have that huge CFL setup(though I just added some HPS). ahh thats right, the reason I stopped stadium was because the middle buds(being at the lowest elevation) would not grow large even though they were the closest to the light. Now I've done a sorta flat LST job(no screen at all). I found it too hard to keep repositioning the screen(all that bud shaking).
And I've noticed marked improvement(exact #'s coming soon) in over all bud size variation. I noticed that even though some buds were farther from the source, they grew larger in-spite of closer-but-lower buds.

[Gundari]

All this talk of Scrog makes me want to do a Scrog on my next grow.

[Opie Yutts]

I'm telling you Gundari, SCROG is the way to go. Everybody should at least experiment with it once or twice to see if they can adapt it to their growing methods, and dare I say, maybe even consider rearrange their growing style to accommodate a couple screens.

Well I think I'm really digging this LST thing. I've done LST mixed with topping before, but this is my first LST only grow. Now don't hold me to this. I'm not saying that I absolutely will not do a little chopping at some point. I am not completely sure at this point, but I'm thinking that LST gets results a little faster and better than topping. It seems like as long as I keep the top of the main stem down below the others, big healthy nodes keep popping up all over the place. I recently counted at least 32 nice usable nodes on the biggest plant, and a bunch of others that will probably end up getting pinched off in the near future. Every day I have been bending fan leaves out of the way and tyeing stuff down as needed. This takes more time by far than topping, but I think it might be worth it. Still forming opinions.

I would be very appreciative of any ideas or suggestions people may have. I have never grown quite like this before. Last night while laying in bed, it struck me that I may have screwed up already. I am laying everything flat from the beginning, and getting nodes randomly popping up all over the place. The way things are going, it's going to be a jungle of stems in there. The fan leaves and branches will be trimmed off of the first 8 inches or so, but I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to get my hands all the way to the back of the grow. I'm thinking that perhaps I should have let the plants grow vertically about 8 inches before tyeing the branches down, then I would have 9 stems to deal with instead of 100. I think I will continue to grow like this until everything is filled in nicely, then train the plants to grow up in rows of stems. Maybe I'll have 4 or 5 slots that allow me to reach all the way to the back.

Anyone? Buhler? Did I already screw myself over? Should I start the plants going vertically immediately? Should I toss that one in the lower left that isn't growing very well? And why are those sheep up in the trees?

Huh what? Oh wait a minute I just had a thought. I'm slowly seeing 2 screens merging into my grow somehow. Who brought that up? Image Reaper? Pharmacan? Sorry if props aint proper, little stoney in here at the moment. Can somebody please draw me a picture of how this can work?

[Opie Yutts]

Damn, this is a far cry from what I initially set out to do with this grow. I was planning on flowering almost immediately and see what would happen. I've always vegged 1 or 2 months.

[Gundari]

Yea I've been thinking my next grow that I was going to try and mix a little bit of FIMing in with LST, and if that goes well initially (and im not able to see how it wouldn't. Just FIM them when they are about 6 nodes tall and from there start training however many top shoots i get to lay flat.) i may figure out how to fabricate some kinda screen that the pots sit in and scrog it out. My biggest hurdle to get over is that I'm growing in a rubber made setup so that could interfere with the care of the plant (since it will be difficult to move).

[Zcomp]

Look opie, The only downside to LSTing is the unlimited possibility's. I too spent many nights awake contemplating the best move! In the end, You'll be making adjustments and even pruning unnecessary nodes all the way till day 45 of flower(at which point your stems become too brittle). Don't over think this. The beautiful thing about LST is the unlimited possibility's. Stop vegging when you want to. With LSTing you could infinitely improve your arrangement. If your dead set on perfection you'll be LST'ing forever. One plant could literally be trained to your entire grow area.
Then don't forget that your girls will be multiplying in size and nodes(thanks to LSTing) through flowering.

[Opie Yutts]

My biggest hurdle to get over is that I'm growing in a rubber made setup so that could interfere with the care of the plant (since it will be difficult to move).

Why do you move it? Once my grow starts, my plants don't move, except when I'm doing scrog, from the veg chamber to the bud chamber.

[Opie Yutts]

Look opie, The only downside to LSTing is the unlimited possibility's. I too spent many nights awake contemplating the best move! In the end, You'll be making adjustments and even pruning unnecessary nodes all the way till day 45 of flower(at which point your stems become too brittle). Don't over think this. The beautiful thing about LST is the unlimited possibility's. Stop vegging when you want to. With LSTing you could infinitely improve your arrangement. If your dead set on perfection you'll be LST'ing forever. One plant could literally be trained to your entire grow area.
Then don't forget that your girls will be multiplying in size and nodes(thanks to LSTing) through flowering.

Thanks, that helps calm me down a bit.

[Opie Yutts]

Well there I was getting ready to put nutrients into my reservoir. I set the 6.8 PH nutrients for soil down near the 5.5 PH nutrients for hydro. I took a PH reading of the hydro stuff just to make sure it hadn't drifted much since two days ago, then I poured myself a half gallon of it into my watering pitcher and put it in the res. Do you see where I'm going here? Then I took a bong rip. Then I poured myself a half gallon of soil nutrients and poured it in the hydro res. Then I realized what I did. In my defense, the two kitty litter buckets are almost identical, but I know, I'm such a dork.

I think everything will be OK. Just wanted to update you on the grow. It's just about finished flushing now with 3 gallons of PHd water. A full reservoir is 2 gallons for this set up. I might see a little stress because I know from experience that plants don't like PH fluctuations, even if they are within the tolerable ranges. I think 6.8 is outside of those ranges. We'll see. Please say a little prayer for my plants tonight.

[Gundari]

Well to get a good look at the plant and train it further its worlds easier to just pull the bucket its growing it out of the bottom tub and set it up on a table. Allows me to get a good look at the plant and makes training easier.

[Opie Yutts]

Well to get a good look at the plant and train it further its worlds easier to just pull the bucket its growing it out of the bottom tub and set it up on a table. Allows me to get a good look at the plant and makes training easier.

Well having ruptured disks and all, I designed my grow so that my plants end up about chest high, so I don't have to bend over to train them. This temporary one isn't working out quite like that since it's in the wrong position, but oh well, ruptured disks need exercise too I guess. I don't like taking my plants out and setting them on anything. I guess mostly because I'm afraid of crushing roots or getting nutrient solution all over. Different tokes for different folks.

[Opie Yutts]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot to divulge the findings on the foil duct tape experiment: As expected it was a waste of time. Once the heat got ahold of the adhesive, and my superstrong plants got to pushing on the tape, they popped right up. Lesson learned. For this particular brand and model of foil duct tape, it doesn't work real well to hold branches down if 600 watts of HPS is near by. Sorry, not digging it out at this time to tell you what kind it is, but I know there is foil duct tape that is about twice as expensive, and it's rated for hot situations. I'll bet this might work, and why didn't I buy a bunch of that instead of the cheap stuff?

[Opie Yutts]

Well, the last 4 out of 5 posts were started with "well", inclusive.

Who cares, you dipstick?

Huh, who said that?

[Zcomp]

I totally understand. Scratch what I said about soft stems. I don't do hydro, But I thought that your stems stayed soft(relatively).
Anyway, I hope you don't spend too much time worried about this one, when you could be smoking and thinking on the next go round. I was very glad that I decided to flower despite growing concerns of "better" ways. On this go round, I have done a much more well planed LST job. But not as good LSTing as I will do next! Get it?

[PharmaCan]

Nice looking grow Opie!:thumbsup:

I'm keeping an eye on this thread to see how it all turns out.

PC :smokin:

[Opie Yutts]

Well I thought I might as well toss in a couple photos of this set-up when I was just getting it going.

These clones were ignored for almost 2 weeks. During that time the dome kept most of the moisture in, which was too much. Of course you are supposed to let them breath at least twice per day. When I took off the dome I couldnâ??t hardly believe that they were in such good condition, except for the massive amount of mold and rot, which was picked out before the pictures. I checked the PH and it was 6.25. Just barely squeaking in at a level that might sustain the life of a weed plant (I like 5.5).

These clones were scarified, but this is not a good example of what scarification can do. You can kinda see the results on some of them, but nothing like if I had taken these cuttings from the proper places on the mother and had taken care of them during rooting. Notice the droop on some of them once in the system, due to not hardening them properly. I put baggies over all of them overnight just to be safe, and the perked right up the next day.

If you want to see the massive bubbles my new air pump was making before I put the lids on and the plants in, or just check out what's under the hood, or for some of you, the bonnet, go here: http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/141583-i-ve-got-proper-bubbles-once.html (http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/141583-i-ve-got-proper-bubbles-once.html)

[Opie Yutts]

It was because of Weedhound that I had to go buy a laser thermometer, and no I didnâ??t get a good deal on it. It all started with me lowering the light. I have always thought that if the plant doesnâ??t show signs of heat stress, then itâ??s not too hot. Well I have always been wrong according to Weedhound. Hereâ??s what she has to say on the subject:

â?¦the REAL key is this.....(shhhhh) when the leaf surface temps go over 80 degrees (usually at about 85 degrees room temp or so depending on ventilation, how close your light is etc..) the plants growth will slow down tremendously. Photosynthesis drops a HUGE amount (in fact almost to 0 if I remember correctly) when leaf surface temp exceeds 80

I lowered my light to about 16â?� from the plants after lights out one night. I kept watching the plants the next day to see if it looked like they were getting heat stressed, but I didnâ??t notice signs of any stress. The day after that I was looking at my plants and I realized that I hadnâ??t really noticed much growth over the past two days. Usually I can notice growth in half of a day, and I was expecting faster growth with the light closer, not slower growth. Not too much later I was reading that post of Weedhounds, and it suddenly dawned on me that I may have the very problem that she is talking about. Iâ??ve never heard of it before, but I learn new things all the time that are so basic and simple, that I should have known them a long time ago.

Now Weedhound, I love and respect you, and I deeply want to steal your dogs, but I usually donâ??t take anyoneâ??s word at face value. Itâ??s not that I donâ??t trust you, far from it. Itâ??s just that I have noticed that even people that I have greatly respected have sometimes been mistaken. I spent a little time trying to find something to corroborate your hypothesis, but I didnâ??t have any luck. (Weedhound if youâ??re reading this, any chance of a link or something?) Iâ??ll probably look more in the future, but the important thing is that I believe in what you are preaching, so much that I got to thinking about my dilemma concerning my plantsâ?? apparent lack of proper growth. I got to wondering how I could find out what the real temperature is of individual leaves is, and the only plausible thing I could come up with is to get a laser thermometer. I wanted one now and decided not to try to get the best deal possible. I found out that they are very hard to come by in these parts, but fortunately an auto parts shop in a nearby hick town had one. Turns out that even though the air temp around the plants was supposedly 85, the leaves were showing anywhere from 80 to 91 when using the laser thermometer. Just as many, if not more of the readings were above 85 than were below. I thought that this is not good according to Weedhound, even though I have heard of growing in temperatures over 100. It definitely would explain my apparent lack of growth for a couple days immediately following the lowering of the light. So I kept raising my light until all my leaf readings were under 80. Itâ??s now almost 3 feet above the plants.

Tomorrow I am going to put a variable speed switch on one of my inline fans and run it through that louvered opening you can see in the 2nd picture, and another one you canâ??t see about a foot above it. Perhaps then I will be able to lower my light.

Summary: Assuming Weedhound is correct, and she probably is, then the only real way to find out what distance your light needs to be from your plants, is to use a laser thermometer and measure the leaf temperature. Keep raising your light until all leaves read less than 80.

[Opie Yutts]

OK here we go, 3rd major tie down, 20 days after introduced to the system, 4 days after 2nd major tie down. Nutrients increased from 1000 PPM to 1313. Why 1313? Because I was aiming for 1300 and came darn close. A delicate bouquet of well water, Fox Farms Grow Big, Liquid Karma, SuperThrive, PH down, and GHs SubCulture. Yum!

Snapped one nice node off today. Oh well I guess that's not too bad for 3 tiedowns.

The first one is before this tie down, the next two are after, and the last two are of the biggest plant, before and after.

[Opie Yutts]

I forgot to mention that I think I solved the mystery of the ghosties. I think it was dust or dirt as someone mentioned, but not in the air. I just happened to notice that my camera lens was filthy today and so I cleaned it. No more ghosties that I've noticed so far. I clean my camera lenses as regularly are clockwork, once every five years.

[Opie Yutts]

I think it was Zcomp that asked about those seedlings, and I kept forgetting to respond. Sorry, but here you go: The footprint of the grow is being taken over pretty well with foliage, so I had to move the seedlings into my mother section for further development. Right now the lighting is all the wrong wavelength (2700K is for budding), so I got myself a deal on a bunch of â??daylightâ?� bulbs which are good for vegging (5500K) and plan to replace them all tomorrow, and get them closer to the plants. But for today, hereâ??s the pictures of my Blueberry X Northern Lights babies. I told the doctor that I didnâ??t want to know their sex yet, but I am secretly hoping most of them are girls. I know from experience that the girls of this strain make a particularly nice smoke, filled with THC and other goodness.

Now for crying outloud, no more posting for a bit. I have to get up in a few minutes, so I'd better be heading off to bed.

[turtle420]

I haven't said much here, but, THUMBS UP for this thread OpieY! :)
It's FAQ material, IMO.
Very nicely written, lots of pics, and explanations.

I'm enjoying it much!
Thanks man!

Best,

-turtle420 :cool:
.

[MVP]

Hey Opie, nice thread you got going here. You mention cloning about 2 weeks before harvest and I am talking to Weedhound about how she might wanna try this. Problem is that I have never waited that long to take cuts before....

Any chance you can stop by this thread and give your input so she can clones her MKs and learn from your experiences? --- http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/137345-flowering-2-master-kush-2.html#post1728877

P.S. Like the approach, I might have to give this a whirl in the near future

MVP :jointsmile:

[Earthy Dank]

If you got a few Decent HID you'd be in business... You are obviously quite knowledgable... It seems like lighting and possibly genetics are slowing you down. What kind of genetics are those? bagseed? and what kind of lights i saw the one picture of the y-socket cfl Is that all you're using? Hydroponics is best if the lighting can keep up.

[Hydroponic Cabbage]

nice looking grow Opie; I'll be keeping an eye on this one hopefully to get some ideas for my next grow. :thumbsup:

[Opie Yutts]

Everyone:
Thanks for stopping by, and thanks so much for the compliments.

Earthy Dank:
I understand not wanting to read all the posts on a thread, so here you go.

"The last photo is a jerry-rigged light, of which I put one set on each side of the grow to supplement the 600W HPS. I thought it needed some blue. They are 23 W each and 5500K daylight bulbs, for a total of 400W equivalent additional. Should help."

The genetics are pure-bred AK-47 from a clone, so I don't think that or the lighting is any problem, since there is 1000W equivalent in there, some nice red HPS and some nice blue CFL.

So you think something is slowing me down? Not sure what you mean, except perhaps for the fact that I started with seriously fucked up clones as noted previously. There is one plant that is not growing as I would like (lower left in the photos), and I am thinking of yanking it. Not even counting the fact that most plants have two main stems, they would be about 14" tall if not tied down. That's not real bad for 3 weeks into the system is it? I mean considering that they are getting LSTd and making tons more nodes than normal?

I'm by no means an expert, so please keep the suggestions coming, but I'm not seeing the lights or genetics as a problem. Please clarify if you disagree.

[Earthy Dank]

Everyone:
Thanks for stopping by, and thanks so much for the compliments.

Earthy Dank:
I understand not wanting to read all the posts on a thread, so here you go.

"The last photo is a jerry-rigged light, of which I put one set on each side of the grow to supplement the 600W HPS. I thought it needed some blue. They are 23 W each and 5500K daylight bulbs, for a total of 400W equivalent additional. Should help."

The genetics are pure-bred AK-47 from a clone, so I don't think that or the lighting is any problem, since there is 1000W equivalent in there, some nice red HPS and some nice blue CFL.

So you think something is slowing me down? Not sure what you mean, except perhaps for the fact that I started with seriously fucked up clones as noted previously. There is one plant that is not growing as I would like (lower left in the photos), and I am thinking of yanking it. Not even counting the fact that most plants have two main stems, they would be about 14" tall if not tied down. That's not real bad for 3 weeks into the system is it? I mean considering that they are getting LSTd and making tons more nodes than normal?

I'm by no means an expert, so please keep the suggestions coming, but I'm not seeing the lights or genetics as a problem. Please clarify if you disagree.

Yeah... i didnt see that post i just saw those last couple ones with the little seedlings all stretched out. It looked like just cfls at first... How far away are you keeping the hood from the plants? What kind of ventialation do you have? Can you get pictures of your whole set up?

[Opie Yutts]

Earthy, I'll try and get some more photos up for you, and some more info later this evening. Not sure though.

Thanks for the interest in helping.

[Opie Yutts]

Obviously I didn't get any photos up that evening, and I still don't have any of my whole set up, but I got a couple more.

Well it's 4 weeks now since I put them in the system. I can certainly see how I went about this wrong. Mainly I should have not started to LST until they had grown about 6 or 8 inches. Then it would have been easier to get my hands to the back. This way all I could think of was to make isles, or rows to the back.

In a few days they should be getting big enough to start pulling them to the screens that make up the walls of the rows. I already did a little, but more will come soon. I can get my hand to the back, even in the row that has the fan, and I intend to keep it that way. I'm going to start taking off the smaller shoots soon, in order to let at least a few of the ones from the weaker plants a chance to get to the top.

This kind of 2 1/2 level, 5 isle, stadium screen looks more complex than it is. It was way easier to put together than the previous one I made which was from chicken wire, and it had openings smaller than 1x2". These openings are 2x3", which I'm finding out is a huge advantage when it's time to tie things to it.

So here it is, as it's going together.

[Opie Yutts]

Since the plants showed no nute stress since last weeks bump to 1313, I upped it again to 1410.

The fan in the middle is blowing straight up at the light. It should allow me to get the light much closer than the 3 feet it needed to be before. I'll check tomorrow on the leaf temps, and see if I can't get it even closer. There's a 6" inline fan connected to vent on the wall and one above it, but it makes a darn hurricane in there. I bought a 4 position fan switch I was going to wire on it, but then I read the package better and it said it was for 10 W ceiling fans, not 75 W inlines. Can anyone recommend a speed control for that fan? So, that's going to have to wait a little longer. I might get those CFLs back in there soon too.

I want buds now! Oh well, gotta stick this out I guess.

[Hennessy1414]

Since the plants showed no nute stress since last weeks bump to 1313, I upped it again to 1410.

The fan in the middle is blowing straight up at the light. It should allow me to get the light much closer than the 3 feet it needed to be before. I'll check tomorrow on the leaf temps, and see if I can't get it even closer. There's a 6" inline fan connected to vent on the wall and one above it, but it makes a darn hurricane in there. I bought a 4 position fan switch I was going to wire on it, but then I read the package better and it said it was for 10 W ceiling fans, not 75 W inlines. Can anyone recommend a speed control for that fan? So, that's going to have to wait a little longer. I might get those CFLs back in there soon too.

I want buds now! Oh well, gotta stick this out I guess.
arnt thew crops in the middle not getting much light caus of the fan? :rastasmoke:

[MVP]

I bought a 4 position fan switch I was going to wire on it, but then I read the package better and it said it was for 10 W ceiling fans, not 75 W inlines. Can anyone recommend a speed control for that fan?

I use a rheostat that I built from HD parts:

- dimmer switch rated for 600W total lighting $5.00
- dual gang metal electrical box $2.50
- 1 foot of 14/3 copper wire $0.50
- 3 prong grounded outlet $2.00
- 25 ft. outdoor extension cord $6.00
- misc wiring connectors left over from remodel $0.00

Being able to control fans to any speed desired....Priceless :cool:

Oh yeah, I am running a 6 inch Vortex rated at 449 CFM and approx 80 W at full throttle....

[Opie Yutts]

arnt thew crops in the middle not getting much light caus of the fan? :rastasmoke:

I've done this before (kinda) with that light. It's pretty small but cools the light real well. I only need a 3" hole all the way up through any foliage or buds.

I took some temp readings of the leaves after moving the light to about 28 inches from the canopy, and they averaged about 73. Just moved the light down to 22 inches above the canopy. I'll check again in awhile. I'm just trying to keep the top leaves below 80 (due to what Weedhound says), and get the 600 watter as close as possible.

[Opie Yutts]

I use a rheostat that I built from HD parts:

- dimmer switch rated for 600W total lighting $5.00

Really cool idea. I didn't know you could get a dimmer rated that high for such a low price. I'm off to Lowes probably soon for a different chain saw, and I'll see if I can pick one up there. Don't buy a Poulan saw. Did some research and you need a Stihl or Husqvarna.

I imagine all I need is box and the dimmer, since I don't need an outlet. I just want to wire it straight to the fan. Thanks for the great idea.

[MVP]

Really cool idea. I didn't know you could get a dimmer rated that high for such a low price. I'm off to Lowes probably soon for a different chain saw, and I'll see if I can pick one up there. Don't buy a Poulan saw. Did some research and you need a Stihl or Husqvarna.

I imagine all I need is box and the dimmer, since I don't need an outlet. I just want to wire it straight to the fan. Thanks for the great idea.

This is the one:
Rotary 600W Dual Knob (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=211632-539-D-600PH-DK&lpage=none)

[Opie Yutts]

Man MVP, I just can't rep you no matter how many other people I've been repping. Anyway, thank you very much. I'll take the info with me and perhaps save some time. Next to my family and my health, time is the most valuable thing I have.

[MVP]

Man MVP, I just can't rep you no matter how many other people I've been repping. Anyway, thank you very much. I'll take the info with me and perhaps save some time. Next to my family and my health, time is the most valuable thing I have.

Well amigo, when I need chainsaw advice I'll be sure to hit ya up for some. I think you'll like the dimmer solution once you get it all put together. Enjoy! :thumbsup:

[Opie Yutts]

I ended up not getting my saw at Lowe's, but I did go there for an extra 20" chain. They had the exact thing you have I think. I hope I can get it wired tomorrow, but I'm finding with these fucked up winter temperatures, and my little fan wired on my screen, I may not need it. I got the light nice and close and the leaves are still about 74 degrees, but that's with our house at 72. Once I start the fireplace going, our house can shoot up to 86 in a couple rooms. My flowering section exhaust is set up to kick in at 76 degrees, and it seems to be running about half the time lately.

Thanks again. I feel like I really scored.

[Opie Yutts]

Iâ??m a little disappointed. Not knowing what I was doing I tied them down right from the beginning. I wasted 3 or 4 weeks this way. I should have let them grow awhile, then started LST on the bottom screen. Lesson learned.

I should be spending about 2 hours each day tucking stuff under the screen, exposing new nodes, cutting off popcorn buds and keeping my isles to the back clear. I'm not.

The first two pictures are from about a week and a half ago, when I started drastically cutting. I tried to leave as many fan leaves as possible intact, but I cut off all the little would-be popcorn buds, as well as whatever was needed for me to get my hand to the back of each row. I also cut a whole bunch out of the plants that showed a poor attitude, hoping that just a few strong stems is better than 12 or 15 weak ones. Some showed improvement, but I think one or two are going to get the ax completely soon.

Iâ??ve started tucking a bunch that keep wanting to come through the screen. Starting with suckie clones has sure bit me in the ass. Iâ??m afraid Iâ??m going to flower without a properly filled in screen. I may have to forego an awesome yield in order to not have to run out of something to smoke. Well weâ??ll see, Iâ??ll keep vegging for a while still. I would love to get the whole screen filled in, but it may take too long to fill in the areas that the bad plants arenâ??t taking care of as hoped for. You suck! You bad plants, you. I should have known better.

Like my funnel and hose, so I can water the back ones easily? Oh yeah, the three in the back nearly bought the big one. I ran them bone dry for about 2 hours, I think. They were extremely unhappy, especially the healthy one. Note to self: get a clue.

[Opie Yutts]

Well here's where we are now.

I took a big chance and tried changing several variables at once. That can be dangerous, because if one causes a problem, you can't be sure which one is the problem causer. I bought a new PH meter and PPM/EC meter. Both are the truncheon models from Bluelab. I absolutely love these meters for more reasons than I wish to go into at this time. The point is I used both new meters, and a new nutrient at half strength, in place of half of my old nutrient. I thought they were looking a little on the light green side and exhibiting signs of a Nitrogen deficiency.

That was 3 days ago, and they certainly don't seem to be minding the change at all. In fact, they are looking quite a bit better, except for some slight nute burn. I'll back it off from 1400 to 1350 next time.

I sure am getting tired of the long veg time my inexperience has caused me. I think my new years resolution will be to go to take some cuttings for another grow, wait a couple weeks and then go to flower.

The last picture is after tucking nodes under the screen a little.

[Opie Yutts]

Big thanks to MVP for the heads up on the cheap dimmer switch. I have a fan wired up to it now, blowing out two vents like the one in the top of the top middle photo above. Should help quite a bit to get the light closer. I basically did what MVP did except my dimmer is mounted separate from the electric outlet.

Oh by the way I've added some vegging bulbs. 10 total 23W CFL, for an additional 1000W equivalent to go with the 600W HPS.

[HateHeaven]

Very nice Opie :jointsmile: I cant wait to see what the final outcome looks like.

[MVP]

Opie, great work I must say... BTW, do you have more pics of the CFLs you are using for veg? Did you have to rig up something custom? Or did you find a couple of fixtures to tweak like a vanity panel? I have a feeling that I will be vegging forever in my "Quasi-SCROG" (log link in sig) that I am trying so I am thinking about doing the same thing. Also the local elec. co. is subsidizing 23W CFLs right now and they are a dollar each....

I AM interested in knowing more about your new meters when you have time to elaborate a bit: what do you like, where does one get them, how pricey are they? You know, the basics.

Happy Holidays!
:areindeer::noel::areindeer:
MVP

[Opie Yutts]

Nothing big on the CFL's. Just some $2 power strips wired to the screen, and a bunch of $2 plug in thingees to screw the bulbs into. I'm going to have to move them soon I'm afraid.

[Treetops]

the more I read about this,the more I'm thinking about doing the same...

Thanks for the great pics as well..

Peace,
Treetops :thumbsup:

[MVP]

Ahhhh, the old plug in socket thingees... so do tell: Why are you gonna have to move the lights? I wanna know before I run out and build something similar...

[Opie Yutts]

If I want to fill in the whole screen I am going to need to move the lights, since they are sitting on the screen. Haven't decided yet. Getting antsy to flower, and I may just leave them.

[HateHeaven]

Is it possible to do a scrog with small plants? Or do you need to veg for a good month or two?

[Opie Yutts]

I suppose it would be possible, but in general you have to veg a little longer so that you can fill in the screen. You could have several plants and get the screen filled faster, or just one and take 3 or 4 months to get it filled in. I usually veg for 2 mo. with 6 or 8 plants, then put them in the flower section under the screen, tuck and tie nodes under the screen for a couple weeks, then flower.

[MVP]

Opie, SCROG question:
My Dominas are getting so damn thick in their main shoots that I cannot tie them down without serious, serious effort. Their fan leaves are gigantic and stuffing them back down thru the 2 in x 2 in screen is causing a few of their fans to break (not the whole leaf, just a finger or two here and there). I was planning to wait until approx 1/8 or so to flip them into flower but I can't tell how I will be able to keep an even canopy if I do.

Maybe you can help me with some ideas. As for the Hijack... Here are some pics to make up for that. Can I borrow your winch?

Happy New Year!

MVP
:i feel stupid: :icon401: :pimp: :lol5:

[Opie Yutts]

I can't tell how to keep an even canopy either. I am getting a little better each time I think, but it is very difficult to judge when to do a lot of things in a scrog. It's an art that can only be learned through experience. Then just when you think you got it down, you try another variety and everything's all different again.

All I can tell you is what I go for on average. When the screen is about 2/3 full of bud sites, I go to flower. I keep tucking and occasionally tying. Not only do I consider how much space is left on the screen, but also of the space that is already taken up with growth, how much of that is not yet filled in. (Awkward wording, sorry) Part of the 2/3 mark is in that space as well. I try to get an even field of buds, with the main colas more toward the outside and the small ones in the center. I have 2 x 3â?� openings, and Iâ??m hoping I can get 2 or 3, but at least one bud coming up through each hole. For your 2â?� openings I would probably want 2 colas coming up through each. After 2 or 3 weeks of flowering, (man flowering is one word you can really type fast) or when some good flowers start showing up, I let the buds come up through the screen. Ultimately you want a perfect, tightly spaced carpet, or forest of little Christmas trees. Please let me know when you get a perfect one, and then you should probably right a book about how to do it. I would buy it or download it for free. Did I say that out loud?

I've discovered that scrogging is a lot like sailing. When I'm on my sail board zipping between anchored boats, I don't always end up going around the exact boat that I was originally planning to. You must compromise and do what the wind wants you to. If you work with it instead of trying to do exactly what you want, you will reach your destination much quicker. Destination in our case is of course high yield. Any kind of order I try to achieve usually ends up being a free-for-all anyway. I usually change my mind several times about where plants are going to go, or when I plan to flower, orâ?¦

Well I got some tucking and tying to do, then perhaps Iâ??ll send yesterdays pictures.

What was the question again? Oh, Yes you may borrow my winch. When do you want it?


2008??? What the hell?

[Opie Yutts]

Oh yeah.

And, weird. I just got done looking at very similar pictures of your grow, and then boom. There's some more. Thanks.

[MVP]

That winch will come in handy tying down the main shoots, which are as thick as a pencil, and damn near as tough!

[Opie Yutts]

And I say unto thee brethren, there was much rejoicing from the highest mountain tops to the valley floors in the land of Canaan. Yesterday was the ladies first full day of budding. The day before they got up at the normal time, but went to bed early. The first two pictures are yesterday and the second two are of a screen that's half tucked and tied, today. I could spend at least twice the time I do, tucking fan leaves down, exposing bud sites, getting rid of would be popcorn buds under the canopy, and arranging each stem more betterish. I've already decided not to try and get rid of everything that should go, and just end up with some popcorn buds. I hope it doesn't take to much energy away from the real buds. Oh well, I'm pretty sure I'll get at least a couple hits out of the grow.

I fear that I may have too many bud sites in a small area, especially at the front of the screen. At the back, the one in the middle took over that area, and I don't even know if any of the outside back two have any bud sites exposed. I was going to toss them since they looked like they were hibernating, but I didn't want to deal with the mess of roots, and untangling plants from the screen. I've been removing more fan leaves than I like to. It seems like every fan leave is shading a bud. I started tucking leaves today and decided that wasn't working, and ended up removing a bunch of em.

[Opie Yutts]

And here they are, all tied down in their feminine glory. The last one is a shot with the HPS off. Some of the littlest buds I will now let start coming up through, and in a few days most of them. I'll keep putting the main colas under the screen for a few days after that, and then just let em come. Bring it.

[MVP]

Couple of questions: what strain are you growing there? I wanna say AK-47 but I don't recall. Also, about how many bud sites would you guess you have there in that 3x3 area? No need to count (unless you want to, or have done so already), but how about an estimate....

[Opie Yutts]

Well if they turn hermie on me it's your fault. I went and peeked in. You got my curiosity going since I've not counted since sometime near the beginning, if memory serves. I did not count them all. Way too late at night and too much tiredness has set in for this old bloke, but this estimate should be fairly close I think.

I wasn't even sure exactly how big of an area I have in there, so I measured it and it's 28 deep and 34â?� wide = 6.61 sq. feet. I was going for 6.66. Thatâ??s the screen size, the actual area is a little bigger. I counted one row of openings in the wire netting, from the front to the middle just beside the fan, and there were 29 bud sites that I can see. The row is 3 x 15â?�. Since it has been about 30 hours since my last tucking, I'm going to have to estimate that there are another 6 I couldnâ??t see in that area because they are covered by leaves, for a total of 35 per 3 x 15â?�. Thatâ??s the first Iâ??ve seen them today, and really the leaves should be tucked and plucked daily or more.

OK, great. Math. I think Iâ??m going to need a bong rip for this.

Wooohyes. Better.

First off, screw that fact that 95% of the surface are is on an incline. Iâ??m not going to figure that in tonight. Well OK, since itâ??s MVP asking, I am guessing that the 4-sided stadium effect gives me 12% additional surface area. That would make it 7.4 sq. ft. instead of 6.6. The 3 x 15â?� sample row is 0.31 sq. ft., so thereâ??s about 23.87 of those rows in the grow, or 835 bud sites if it is completely filled in. That absolutely sucks and is way too many. Iâ??m thinking something like 75 to 150 is much more appropriate for that space. Man Iâ??m going to have a bunch of small-ass buds. Well hopefully it will weigh out nicely, and Iâ??ll get a whole bunch of finger hash from all the damn manicuring Iâ??ll be doing. I donâ??t have 835 right now, since the screen is about 88% filled in, plus deduct a little due to me not figuring that little fan in the middle is taking up space.

I tell you what. Iâ??ve sure got a lot yet to learn about scrog, and Iâ??m darn sure going to do some things different next time. Oh all the time I wasted this grow. Thank you very much MVP for your interest in my grow. You completely got me thinking about what to change for next harvest. A lot less veg time, I should think. Much less LST as well.

[Opie Yutts]

Oh, and deduct some more since the back row of plants is really only one plant filling in that space, and there are quite a bit less buds per area there. Doesn't help the front much though.

Got a bunch of different nutrients and additives today, and some supplies. More on this later (?tomorrow?). As you may have or have not read, I'm switching to all evil dark side. Nothing organic. So there.

[Opie Yutts]

Sorry, AK-47 for this and next grow, then BB x NL for a couple grows, then ???

I really, really wish I could have saved my WW x Lambsbreath mother. Darn that makes me mad. Maybe some day I can be a real grower.

[Rock.Steady]

'subscribe button':D

[MVP]

As you may have or have not read, I'm switching to all evil dark side. Nothing organic. So there.

Synthetic? :eek: Blasphemy!! What triggered such thoughts? Sounds like the poor girls are gonna turn into GH hoes....

[Weedhound]

'subscribe button':D

Ditto.....IMPRESSIVE!!!! 19 THUMBS UP.:thumbsup: I'll go back and read from the start at some point. What KICK ASS WORK!!

[Opie Yutts]

Synthetic? :eek: Blasphemy!! What triggered such thoughts? Sounds like the poor girls are gonna turn into GH hoes....

Well I want to get some real fogging nozzles in my setup. Not just the fogging nozzles in the drip section at Home Depot, because they don't so much fog as spray. Finer drops should mean more oxygen to the roots. The plants do OK spraying, so I don't know what's wrong with me. The nozzles I have now must be tossed every 3rd grow or so, and the ones I want have an even smaller orifice, so I imagine they would get clogged even more. A way to avoid this is to buy 2 new bigger pumps with triple filtration for both. Another way would be to make sure there are absolutely no chunks in my nutrients, so that would leave out organic stuff. I figure if I flush well at the end, you would never be able to tell that it was an all synthetic grow. I am talking about my real set up, not the one depicted in this grow.

Thank you everyone for the compliments.

[rhizome]

Synthetic? :eek: Blasphemy!! What triggered such thoughts? Sounds like the poor girls are gonna turn into GH hoes....

Heh- if anybodies pimpin', it's Advanced...

:wtf:"...When Success Is Measured By Weight...":wtf:

Hard to argue w/ the results, tho...

[rhizome]

Oh hey, Opie- should point out that getting away from the organics would also allow you to set up a peroxide drip- might be an easier way to boost 02 than sourcing and swapping nozzles.

[Opie Yutts]

That is a good point and one I hadn't thought of. It just never occurred to me that I could ever be using peroxide. And yet another thing you've given me to research. Thank you.

[Opie Yutts]

By the way, yesterday I gave my ladies a foliar feeding of Spray n Grow. I haven't seen them today yet, but I know they need some tucking and tying badly.

[Earthy Dank]

Sorry, AK-47 for this and next grow, then BB x NL for a couple grows, then ???

I really, really wish I could have saved my WW x Lambsbreath mother. Darn that makes me mad. Maybe some day I can be a real grower.

Are you kidding... You may no be a pro but you are definately a grower... don't be modest... Most people people can't even make a chia pet grow...

[Weedhound]

Well I have to agree with Opie......I think he should stop immediately and give me everythinng he's got growing there. I shall test it and make my determination. :D

[Rusty Trichome]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot to divulge the findings on the foil duct tape experiment: As expected it was a waste of time. Once the heat got ahold of the adhesive, and my superstrong plants got to pushing on the tape, they popped right up. Lesson learned. For this particular brand and model of foil duct tape, it doesn't work real well to hold branches down if 600 watts of HPS is near by. Sorry, not digging it out at this time to tell you what kind it is, but I know there is foil duct tape that is about twice as expensive, and it's rated for hot situations. I'll bet this might work, and why didn't I buy a bunch of that instead of the cheap stuff?
Sorry to contribute this so late in the post, but when situation arises, and I need to push a branch one way or the other, I've been using these for years...keep in mind I don't do a LST, but sometimes the plant just doesn't want to co-operate on it's own.
They are my "nudgers" made out of solid copper wire. (600v, oil resistant) The twisted one is for strength, and is about 6" long. The wire is thicker than the twist ties, so not as likely to cut into a branch, don't rust, stronger, last forever, no need to 'skewer' the roots repeatedly with bamboo stakes, no need to drill holes, which weaken the rim of the pot...
I figured these out when I accidentally tied one plant to another, and broke both when re-arranging my plants. (DOH)

[Opie Yutts]

Thanks for chiming in Rusty. That looks like a good idea with the copper wire. It's good for a lot of things, and that's what I used to make the frame for my first stadium screen. I'm not sure that I would want to have to use tools to tie down my branches. I know you don't do many, but when you're doing 5-10 ties every day, or something like 25 at the beginning, it's real nice to just be able to grab a twistie tie and bend it with your fingers. Your's definitely look more heavy duty, and maybe it's just the kind of thing a person needs for tying down those big MJ tree trunks. Looks like you have special ones for holding a stem away, or up, and special ones for holding a stem down.

[Rock.Steady]

Excellent wire-thingy idea!!!
2 thumbs up!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[GrowMe]

More pics, more pics!!!!! :jointsmile:

[Treetops]

it worked pretty well for me...Just an added idea..I had wrapped a copper wire, with these ring things to hold and move on the wire where needed...

Keep on growin,
Treetops
:thumbsup:

[GrowMe]

Thats crazy treetops..!! Are you growing in a plastic folgers container? :smokin:

[Opie Yutts]

Yes he is and he does quite well at it. treetops, there is yet another good idea. The ol' pipe cleaner and copper wire ring technique. I imagine you can't get much better as far as the tie downs being gentle to the stems. Thanks for sharing.

[Opie Yutts]

Last night was the second foliar application of iron, in the form of Spray n Grow, and I notice a difference in color already. To be fair, I started using about double my ordinary amount of CalMag at about the same time, so maybe it's the combination. The new growth is less yellowish, or lime green. I'll try to get some new pictures up later today.

[MVP]

Thats crazy treetops..!! Are you growing in a plastic folgers container? :smokin:

Every time I walk by the coffee aisle in the store I think of these DWC contraptions.... :jointsmile:

[Weedhound]

Opie how much CalMag were you using before?

[haole007]

yarn... gentle, yet strong.

excellent when combined with twisty thingees.

[Rock.Steady]

yarn... gentle, yet strong.

excellent when combined with twisty thingees.

yarn, like outta mom's basket, like this?

soft and strong, agreed.:thumbsup:

[Opie Yutts]

Weedhound, I was using about 1 1/2 tsp per gallon, and the last couple feedings have been about 3 tsp. per gallon.

Rock.Steady, thanks for the yarn tutorial.

Today was the 8th day of flowering. Yesterday they showed some flowers for the first time. Iâ??m pretty much done tucking stuff under the screen. Where they are now is pretty much where they are gong to start their cola climb. Iâ??m sure Iâ??ll position a little more here and there, but not much. Man Iâ??m going to have a lot of small buds. Next time Iâ??ll want about half the amount.

Tomorrow I need to spend some serious time removing the last of the fan leaves that are shading any buds, and having a half time talk with them to make sure we are all on the same page. Iâ??ve been adding some Open Sesame, and next feeding Iâ??ll start with the Beastie Blooms. According to Fox Farmâ??s feeding schedule, you only use Beastie Blooms for one week, then you go to Cha Ching through harvest.

The lower parts of the plants (the ones more in the middle of the screen) are yellowing a little more than I like (actually a lot more than I like). Any suggestions on this would be appreciated. Is it just the Fe chlorosis?

The first two pictures are before the last real tie down. The last two are without the HPS and after the tie n tuck.

[Rock.Steady]

oh, im definately not in a class to tutor u on anything here my friend:thumbsup:
wow, i musta missed it, whats the dims on that screen?

personally, i dont really get the screen idea. i thought thats why u do LST.
but im still learnin.

[Opie Yutts]

Thought Iâ??d throw in a couple photos of my mother area. The ones on top are 7 BBXNL prospective mothers. The 3rd photo is the best looking one of those. The 4th one is of an AK-47 bonsai mom. Iâ??m hoping to do like in the thread simply called â??mumsâ?�. The last photo is of some insane mom I revegged. It just sat there eating itself and making a few buds for about 3 months before it started to show some signs of coming around. Even under 24 hour light. About 2 days after I wrote it off for dead it started showing some veg growth.

If you want to learn a little about my lighting experience in my mother room go here: http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-lighting/146850-some-fluorescent-info.html

[Weedhound]

Damn Opie you got some pretty serious set ups going on over there. I like your bonsai in pic 4. :)

[Opie Yutts]

Well I am pissed. I don't understand this constant critical maintenance. The kind that keeps the site down for three days, and the kind that deletes pages of posts that you put a lot of work into. The kind that deletes pictures from posts, and the kind that makes the site worse instead of better overall, IMO.

Where did my posts go, damn it?

[Rock.Steady]

wow, ur rite dude, :wtf:

save yourself, i did read that huge post to my question,,,,b4 it disappeared.


conspiracy theories???:wtf:

[Opie Yutts]

After spending a little more time on other threads, I realize that I am extremely lucky. Most of the other threads have had their pictures deleted during this last bit of site improvement. I'm just happy to get to keep mine, I guess.

Also I'm lucky that one of the things that disappeared I composed in MS Word, so I have a copy of it. I should say a copy of part of it, since after pasting it into the reply box I wrote a bunch of other stuff too. I aint going to go back and read everything and try to remember what I added, but here's a lot of it:

OK, why a stadium screen? Why any screen?

Itâ??s all about light dispersal patterns of various bulbs, and using all available light as efficiently as possible. Several of us are only allowed to grow so many plants, so we want to utilize everything possible to get the highest yield we can from a small number of plants. Even those of us who arenâ??t concerned about number of plants could greatly benefit from the use of a screen. It is more work to employ the use of a screen, there is no doubt. However, other than getting the basics correct, it is probably the single biggest thing a person could do to improve yield.

Imagine pointing a flashlight in a dark room. There is a circular or oval shape that the light is dispersed within, but other parts of the room are receiving light as well. Imagine growing with a flashlight. It wouldnâ??t make any sense to put plants outside the range of that circle of light, even though light is present there. Also, within that circle, there are brighter areas than others. For most bulbs the most intense light is in the center of the circle or oval, and thatâ??s what the plants would reach for.

If you are growing with fluorescent tubes in a reflector, the pattern of light dispersal is mostly straight down, anywhere under the reflector. There are still more intense places under the reflector, as is the nature of all lighting systems, some more than others. However, in general the light is coming down in a shape of a rectangle. If you put a flat screen under the rectangle, and make it in the same shape as the rectangle, you are able to more efficiently place buds so that more of them receive an equal and proper share of light. If you donâ??t train at all, the plants just grow cattywampus, but mostly in the direction of the most intense light. There will be many places under the reflector that are not occupied with buds. It would be much more efficient to not let the light hit empty spaces, and instead fill in those spaces with buds.

Now what do you do with HID lighting, since the light dispersal pattern is not flat like a fluorescent tube? Imagine a grow under an HPS without a screen of any kind. 3 or 4 of the plants will be taller than the rest, there will be many spaces of light that are not filled with buds, and in general, the grow as a whole will resemble the shape of a Christmas tree, with the top center of the tree being the closest to the most intense area of light. In this case it happens to be right in the middle of the bulb, directly under the reflector. The couple three buds closest to that area will be some nice big ears of corn, but that is not necessarily what will give you the overall greatest yield. Now letâ??s say you put a flat screen under the HID light. That would eliminate some of the problem of areas of light not being taken up with buds, but in general the grow will be in a shape of a Christmas tree again, not making efficient use of lighting. A person can compensate for this somewhat, by training the main colas to the outside and leaving the smallest colas toward the middle of the screen where the light is most intense. Since the light dispersal pattern of HID lighting under a reflector is in the shape of a ball, the ultimate use of space would be to have buds in a globe, or ball shape all around the edge of that light dispersal pattern. That way every bit of light coming from the bulb will be hitting buds, once they are properly placed. The next best thing would be to have a stadium style screen, which is a half-globe made out flat panels instead of concave ones, or one concave one. Another big advantage of a stadium screen is it will give you 10-15% more surface area than a flat screen. Kinda like the screen in this grow.

Now what is the light dispersal pattern of a CFL bulb? I donâ??t know and I wish someone would tell me. I am guessing it is mostly in a ball like with HID. Who knows though? Does it come mostly out the end of the bulb or out the sides, or is it a nice even ball shape? Also, what about those massive CFL conglomerates, that have like 8 CFLs all branching off Y adapters? Itâ??s probably like one bigger ball of light intensity, but I donâ??t know. Again, Iâ??m guessing. Only someone with a light meter will be able to tell.

I hope I havenâ??t served to confuse you more. Is it perhaps just a little more clear as to why I like a screen in my grow? And why I like a stadium screen in my HID grow? As usual, Iâ??m somewhat baked and donâ??t know for sure if Iâ??m making proper sense.

[GrowMe]

Wow, awesome info Opie.. I was wondering the same thing about "Maintenance"..

I had a few questions for ya, or anyone that wants to chime in actually.. I know its hard for you to tutor so many newbs so take your time..i'll just post em in my thread i guess...

Thanks

[Opie Yutts]

Well great, now all my photos are gone and they were here a few hours ago. Fuck this noise. No more posting for me until this shit gets figured out.

[MVP]

Well great, now all my photos are gone and they were here a few hours ago. Fuck this noise. No more posting for me until this shit gets figured out.

Amigo, I've been duplicating my recent stuff at gardens cure dot com and I welcome you to join me there until they figure it out..... my name is MMJ_Patient if you come over to visit. Kinda sad I gotta do both at once, but I like(d) CannCom. First fatty is on me...

[Opie Yutts]

Cool, the pictures area back. I didn't expect that.

[Opie Yutts]

INSpecta, thank you for stopping by and looking. I'll just let you browse, but please let me know if there's anything I can help you pick out.

Thanks for the compliments. I'll see if I can take a look at your grow tomorrow. I just got done cleaning up kind of a major disaster, or potential one, and it's getting late. Right now I just want to take a couple of hits, feed the dogs, have some pie, take a shower, make love to my wife, and have a nice deep long relaxing sleep, mostly in that order.

I made two of those automatic PH dosers in the faqs, and was trying them out today with my two little reservoirs. I should have started earlier, because at normal lights out time was too late to fire it up for the first time. I have to either dilute the PH down at least twice as much, or move the spout closer to the probe, or shut down the valve even more. I'm getting way too big of flow at once, and I'll give more detail later, but let's just say one res was sitting at 2.6 for about 10 minutes, and the other at 3.1. After flushing my ass off for 1 1/2 hr I finally got them back up to 6, where they will spend the night in pure water with a little flushing agent.

Lesson well learned. Does anyone want to take a stab at how screwed I am. Are my plants dead? By the time I was done I noticed the leaves of plants in the smaller res were starting to curl under a little. I expect it to get worse. I just hope I don't open up the cabinet after my long nites' sleep to discover a bunch of fried plants, just when they were coming along so good. I'd take a couple pictures, but they've had enough light stress for one night.

Gnight all.

[Opie Yutts]

Damn Opie you got some pretty serious set ups going on over there. I like your bonsai in pic 4. :)

Thanks, but it's about to get more serious:

1) I will get my dosers working properly for this grow. (It will be much easer in my 12 gallon reservoirs than in my 1 and 2 gal res.s)
2) And I will insist that my new tri-meter will get fixed soon, and hang that on the wall as well. Taking it back tomorrow. Holy cow, you should see the power strips. They seem to breed like rabbits in my grow. When is that breaker going to trip anyway?
3) And I will get my CO2 plugged in, if not before the end of this grow then before the next one goes to flower. It's there and waiting on me. Just staring at me, going, "Uh, how long you going to just leave me sit here?" I usually say something like, "As long as it takes me to get the other stuff done first, like sawing the door in two and sealing everything up nice and tight." He just doesn't seem to get it.

[Opie Yutts]

Hey if I'm missing people, like not giving props where due, I'm really sorry. I very much appreciate people chiming in, giving advice, compliments, uncomplimentary ments, whatever. If I've missed you, sorry... and thank you. I'll try to do better. I just, just.. OK, I love you guys, man. Sniff..

[MVP]

Man, you have a lot going on there amigo. If my CO2 bottle started talking to me I would probably lose it and lock him up in a closet until he learned not to pop off so much... :jointsmile:

[PdoubleOTY]

this grow is amaaaaazzzzzinnnggg.thats just one big solid set of bushes with some ridiculous lumens comin at em..gonna produce some ridiculous colas...so im a bit curious about that emily's hydro system you use..how do you change the water with the plants all tied to the screen? does it have a separate rez with a pump that you change?

[Opie Yutts]

No separate res, no pump except the air pump. The plants sit in the res which has 4 air stones making good bubblies. The reservoir has a drain at the bottom of it and a hole in the lid. I don't use that hole though since it's hard to get the cap out of it. I just pour the nutrient solution into one of the net pots. Couldn't be more simple. The drain has a grommet and fitting that holds a hose, which is clipped on to the side of the res. When I want to drain, I unclip and lower the hose.

The down side is that after a month or two, the roots all grow into each other, but I guess it's only a down side if you plan on taking the plants out before harvest, which I have no need to.

[Rock.Steady]

Opie,
I went back and read your lighting X screen shape explanantion again.
WH has been going on about u guys and ur scrog setups. she suggested i may benefit from it due to space constraints i have also.
all this re-reading has me thinkin,,,,,,,

first, u guys are hydro and move nothing.
i am soil and 2 separate chambers for veg or flwr

but, now, im thinin,
i do put em in the large final pots early.
what if i made a scrog attachment that could be set at say 1-1.5 ft above soil line? could be attached to the pot with heavy gauge copper wire legs,.,, up to a piece of fencing/screen.
training can be started on them as early as possible, then when they move to flower, the higher, final screen would be set to the HPS curvature.

make any sense?
im gonna mock one up tomorow.
i have some new sprouts to transfer in a week or so.

plus i think WH wants me to stop the hardcore bondage thing i started on Galina

[Opie Yutts]

Rock, I'm not quite picturing the attachment, but you can have a different screen in budding than you do in vegging. In my real grow I don't usually use a screen in the veg section. When I move them into the flower area I bend them around under the stadium screen as needed. Occasionally I'll snap one, but if you keep some masking tape handy, you can just tape it back together, even if it's clean in two. Let's see that mock up.

[Opie Yutts]

Here's the deal. I'm getting some nice flowers now, but I'm going to have a lot of little buds. Next time, I'll try for fewer and bigger colas. I should have picked out all the little buds that are trapped under and in the canopy, but I think at this point it would do more harm than good. I'll just leave em go. They add weight in the bag. After using Liquid Light the plants seem much more happy, and the stems are definitely stronger. After bending them down and out of the way of the buds, my hands are getting nice and sticky and smelly. Just a taste of things to come.

So here's how they're looking now. The ones with the HPS off are just after a bout of leaf tucking and a foliar feeding of Spray-N-Grow. The first pic is a few minutes before. I don't have to do much leaf tucking at this point. The stadium shape really makes it easier for the light to reach more buds, even when a bunch of leaves are sticking out everywhere. It's like it's coming in from the side more, instead of straight down from above. Love it.

[Rock.Steady]

now thats what i call a "Magic Carpet"!!!:thumbsup:

i gotta run around for some supplies.

ill mock up the P-Scrog (portable-scrog) when i get back.
the more i think about it, the more it seems to make sense.

this could be bad, ask WH about the last time i got to 'thinkin'.:wtf::D

the biggest question thats an unknown for me, is how high the intital screen should be in relation to the soil line?

MVP is at about 2 ft, he said is too much.

i'll see what looks like it might make sense on Galina.
she's been a good test subject these past few weeks, maybe she'll help with this experiment too.:D

[Weedhound]

Damn Opie....those photos make me swoon....:thumbsup::thumbsup: I just think this would be the right kind of thing for Rock....but I've never done scrog. Just seen some mind blowing results from you, MVP and even cm (who's new at it) has a real nice thing going. Hmm....watering them around the screen though......:confused:

[Opie Yutts]

Rock.Steady

Magic carpet is a good way of describing the way a screen is supposed to look. I only hope it will end up getting nice and filled in like a carpet, but better yet, like a forest.

Somewhere I saw a portable scrog. They had a frame on swivel wheels for each plant, and they just wheeled them into the flower section when they flipped em. Each plant had itâ??s own screen. If you did this and you were to use HID lighting, I would make about 3 different heights, and make sure the strongest healthiest plants are in the tallest ones. Those would be kept to the outer edges of the grow. The shortest ones would be in the middle, and the overall effect would be like a stadium screen. That would be cool. Maybe Iâ??ll try it when I start using different rooms for veg and bud. Maybe you could search and find it if you are interested. It was a decent write up with pictures.

About the thinkin, sometimes when people say, â??Hold on â?? let me thinkâ?�, I say, â??Oh, I wouldnâ??t do that,â?� or something.

The reason you need a space between the screen and the soil is only so you can get your hands to the back of the grow, and everywhere in between. I think the one I have now is about 6 inches, I like 8 or 10 or more. The higher the screen though, the longer you need to veg. And yes 2 feet is too much IMHO.

Weedhound

Go ahead, swoon away. I swoon at yours too. I think if you have a cramped space and you try scrog you would never go back. It is the greatest. Watering around the screen is not a problem, especially if all plants are in one reservoir. I have two, so I have a funnel and hose deal attached at the front, which waters, the res in the back. Also from that res is a drain hose to the front. For the res in the front, I pour the nutrients in one of the 3 front pots. I donâ??t ever have to â??water around the screenâ?�. You may think itâ??s hard to do some things with that screen in there, but if you do things right that aint so. You are supposed to leave room under the screen to get your hands anywhere and everywhere, for bud pluckin, leave tuckin, or whatever. For watering individual plants under a screen, I would have a funnel and hose deal, but the hose is loose and can be stuck through the screen to any plant.

[Rock.Steady]

ok, i been tinkerin more while they had the site down.

THIS IS VERSION 3 ALREADY:wtf:

for my mind, the purpose with this is for soil folks who wanna do scrog but still want portability with their pots.

the main ingredients are the same.

fencing (for screen/top)
wire hangers or tie wire (i used 14 ga.)

im using pots with a rollover lip, i also have some single wall, for those put hole in lip (like for LST) and attach verticle wire to it with a twisty.

the setup depends on your space.
my space is 33 in wide x 44in deep
i can fit 6, like a giant ganja 6pack.

basically, here's my setup
the top-
fence cut to have 16 inches across and a hangover lip. those openings are 4x4 and 4x1.25
this was some kinda rabit fencing and has 2 sizes of holes.
it was also cheapest.
cut, bend and twist fence and wiring to make the top.

the legs-
use wire hangers, or
i trippled my 14 ga tie wire.
set legs as shown


attach top and twist secure.

i also put a piece of duct tape on each leg on the pot to secure it better.

looks like itll survive a hurricane and roof is approx 15 inches above the soil.

i think ill put it on Galina tomorow.

what do you mad scientists think?

[Opie Yutts]

I think that is awesome. Great idea. I'm looking real forward to seeing that filled in. You are going to make a grow log aren't you?

I was wondering why you used the fencing with small holes. Oh just reread. It just came that way. If you make many of these you should try at least one without the smaller holes. Wait a minute, you are going to be doing just that with part of your screen. Duh, I'll shut up now and go to bed. It's just that I wanted you and others to know that I first used poultry netting which really sucked compared to what I'm using now. The holes were way too small, and hundreds of little pokie things kept poking and scratching me. I suppose I could have filed them all off, but it would be much easier to use the wire netting that has 2 x 2" or 1.5 x 3" or something.

Coming soon to Rocks PortaScrog Emporium: The portable stadium tree scrog, for plants over 10 feet tall.

[Rock.Steady]

Coming soon to Rocks PortaScrog Emporium: The portable stadium tree scrog, for plants over 10 feet tall.

Priceless!:D

we'll start with the smaller version and see what happens,LOL!

Galina gets a new playspace:D

[MVP]

Nice looking contraption there Rock. Next SCROG I do I'm putting the clearance between the plant and the lower screen at 12 inches. On the Dominas they are screened at 2 ft since they got that big waiting for the flower room to become available (damn nute def on ones before them).

For my Master Kush clones, they have the lower screen at 8 inches and the upper screen 12 inches above the lower one. After tinkering around I find that 12 inches gives me enough room to work/play but not so much to create problems.

BTW, my reasoning for an upper screen is to support the colas and give me something to tie them to when shaping the canopy.

[Opie Yutts]

Wow Rock. I am honored. It's like my name is up in lights or something, except it's not, it's in your signature. Thank you.

MVP, I'm trying a double screen and I'm still not sure I get it. One screen is usually enough for me to support my colas and give me something to tie to. I'm thinking that if you veg unusually long then 2 screens might be helpful. In fact for really tall plants, I guess that there really ought to be a screen about every 12 or 16". Like 3 foot and taller should have 3 screens and maybe more? Is this your thinking MVP? That you need "pre" screens to keep large plants from toppling over, and to kinda get them headed in the right direction before the final positioning? You gave me the reasoning for an upper screen, but I guess I want to know what your reasoning is for the pre screen, or bottom screen.

[MVP]

Here is the quick explanation:

Lower screen is used during Veg and first 2-3 weeks of Flower to tuck under and weave (and at times to tie shoots LST style when they are too big to tuck and/or weave).

Upper screen is to use when Flower stretch begins to support weight of colas and keep them upright.

Last time I grew Black Domina the tops were so heavy they fell over and KO'ed other branches. I don't have the ability (access/space) to tie tops up to ceiling, etc since I'm growing in a closet. Hence the upper screen for support. And to make me less paraniod of falling colas that cause premature harvesting.

Hopefully this makes sense. If not post back and I will answer again to confuse the issue further. :stoned:

[Opie Yutts]

That makes sense, thanks. I guess I wasn't seeing it since I've usually had way more bud sites than you, thus smaller ones as well that aren't likely to topple over. I'd like to imagine all 500 of my buds get big enough to topple over. Next time I plan on less and bigger buds, as I keep mentioning, so perhaps I'll see the advantage of two screens better at that time.

[MVP]

I'll certainly be posting a lot of pics as things move along to see if that darn screen is worthwhile and does much good. We'll have something to look at, compare/contrast sometime within the next 45-60 days or so.

[Opie Yutts]

Lil update for you. Looking good, smelling good, getting frosty. Somewhat disappointed at the small bud size, but what do I expect with 100 or so buds in that little space and 3 gallons of nutrients. What the hell was I thinking? After the remodel each plant will have about 1.5 gallons instead of 0.33 gal.

The last 2 shots are of the same bud.

[Opie Yutts]

Iâ??ve been trying to get my automatic dosers going, and after 2 tries Iâ??ve come to the conclusion that these dosers are not really for small reservoirs that donâ??t recirculate. The root masses form barriers and the acid cannot freely mix with the nutrients fast enough. The first time I turned them on, the PH shot down to like 3 before I could shut them off. I took them back out and adjusted the position of the probe in relation the opening of the hose for the acid (moved them closer). I also diluted 2.5 molar acid 10 to 1 instead of the 5 to 1 that the directions call for, which is what I tried on the first attempt. I shut the valves down as far as they would go without shutting the flow off completely and tried again. This time the same thing happened only not as bad. The PH shot down to 4 before I shut them off, and took twice as long to go down as the first try.

Iâ??m pretty sure it could be done in these small non-circulating reservoirs, but I would need to reduce down to 1/8â?� hose. I also thought about putting the pump on a cyclestat timer, so once the switch was switched, instead of the pump turning on and staying on, it would turn on for like 2 seconds, then be off for 3 minutes or so, then on and off again until PH is brought down where it needs to be. I have an extra cyclestat, but since there is only about 4 weeks left in this temporary grow I am going to forget it for now and set it up for my real grow.

More on this later. The first two photos are a before and after of the probe position. Oh yeah, I got a new tri-meter too. The first probe was no good so I took it back and got another probe. Now I donâ??t think its calibrated correctly (The hydro guy did it in a hurry.) Iâ??m also having troubles with both of my damn billion dollar truncheon meters. More on that later too.

[Opie Yutts]

Here's what it takes to run 2 automatic dosers.

[HateHeaven]

Looking incredible! Are you using all CFL's? :jointsmile:

[Opie Yutts]

Thank you, and no, I'm using:
- 1 each 600W HPS
- 12 each 23W CFL

[Opie Yutts]

Well I don't know where to post these so I'll put them here. I wanted to show a couple photos of my place since it snowed here today. It's somewhat of a big deal for us since it happens once every 3 or 4 years. I know some of you probably hate the snow, and some of you have never seen actual snow. Anyways, here's kinda what it looks like.

I'm just a little worried since I'm having some Salvia Divinorum plants and several species of live cacti shipped here. I hope they'll be alright in this cold. Some of the cacti are little green button-looking things, if you know what I mean. Have any of you every grown these plants? Hey what about growing cacti in hydro? I guess that might not make much sense. Looking forward to seeing what will happen to Salvia in hydro. I'd like to chat off forum if any one has experience with growing these. Salvia is already illegal in one United state and many countries. Coming soon to a state near you. Gettem before they're gone.

Anyway, on with the show:

[Weedhound]

I always like the snow....grew up in So Cal without snow so I always like seeing it.

Didn't know you bought an automatic doser Opie....I looked into those but waaaayyyy too expensive for me. I sure hope yours works out though because it DOES sound like heaven not having to constantly check and adjust the ph.

I think your stuff looks terrific for 26 days....they'll build up after you stop with all the big training and pruning won't it?

[MVP]

Love snow, grew up in Alaska where it is -20 F right now. Cacti aint gonna grow there for shit. That is why I am in So Cal now. Hope you survive the snow and would luv to visit whenever I get a new job. Keep truckin' bro....


MVP :jointsmile:

[Rock.Steady]

nice snow, nice area, and great looking labs, always luvd them, great dogs! Fun, social, prolly kill ya with luv!:thumbsup:
did some readin on ur new plants, never even heard of it.
my curiosity is Peaked.:wtf:
saw some utube clips, might wanna get some of those b4 they 'go away'
i wonder what the effects would be like to combine a mixed bowl with MJ?????:wtf:

[Balkey]

nice snow, nice area, and great looking labs, always luvd them, great dogs! Fun, social, prolly kill ya with luv!:thumbsup:
did some readin on ur new plants, never even heard of it.
my curiosity is Peaked.:wtf:
saw some utube clips, might wanna get some of those b4 they 'go away'
i wonder what the effects would be like to combine a mixed bowl with MJ?????:wtf:

No info for opie about growing but as far as mixing it with a bowl of mj, I would not. It is quite a different experience when compared to mj, some HATE it. I have plenty right now.....lol I hated it, now I just want to throw it away!!!:stoned::stoned:

Opie! Love the pics, snow and dog looks great. Keep the pics coming!

[wswwsw]

any final results ????

[Opie Yutts]

any final results ????

Well, I wish, but I haven't got my time machine finished yet. It's only been one day since I said they're about half through flowering. They should be ready in 3 or 4 weeks. Thanks for lookin, come back soon.

[Opie Yutts]

If anybody is interested in what happens when you smoke something other than weed, look at this for my trip report of trying something new: My 1st trip was 10 seconds. My 2nd trip was 10 minutes. (http://www.salviasource.org/forum/(v)-level-4/my-1st-trip-was-10-seconds-my-2nd-trip-was-10-minutes/msg4729/#msg4729)

I'll just say, holy crap, holy cow, oh my God, oh boy, good night, damn, mother of all mothers, etc.

[Opie Yutts]

I always like the snow....grew up in So Cal without snow so I always like seeing it.
The snow is pretty and all, but Lord how I hate the cold. Of course I don't have proper snow gear so I got wet that day and froze my ass off. First my hands and feet go numb, then they hurt like a mother cow. As long as I don't have anywhere to go and I can just sit by the fire and look out the window at it, I love the snow.


Didn't know you bought an automatic doser Opie....I looked into those but waaaayyyy too expensive for me.?
Yes they are very expensive, but imagine the splendor that is never having to adjust your PH. And I didn't buy the dosers, just the parts for building them. I made 2 for just under $100 each, and I used the guide in the faqs: http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-faqs/58098-build-ph-doser-controller-under-100-tutorial.html


I think your stuff looks terrific for 26 days....they'll build up after you stop with all the big training and pruning won't it?
Thank you, but they are not going to end up being huge colas. I stopped the training awhile back, and of course they will bulk up some more, but there are more than 100 buds so I'm not expecting them to get real big. Next time...

[Opie Yutts]

Love snow, grew up in Alaska where it is -20 F right now. Cacti aint gonna grow there for shit. That is why I am in So Cal now. Hope you survive the snow and would luv to visit whenever I get a new job. Keep truckin' bro....


MVP :jointsmile:

I spent 12 years next to Disneyland. Loved the sunshine. I miss it. As far as visiting, I'd like that too. Maybe we should have like a forum reunion or something. Wouldn't that be something to meet everyone face to face?

[Balkey]

Just a warning Opie if you have never been under the influence of Sal, watch out! It's some crazy shit.

My first trip on Sal was on 25x too and it was short and I am damn glad it was. I was alone in my bedroom and had just finished a bowl of it, put the bowl down calmly and jumped in the bed sitting straight up like I would be while watching TV. As I settle in, I literally start viewing myself in a 3rd person, yes 3rd person, I was looking down on myself from above. I sat there looking at myself from head to toe, confused and baffled. I finally after 3 minutes!!! came down, and was SOAKING wet, SOAKING to find myself with some of my clothes taken off and soaked. I felt like I had just finished playing a basketball game.

All I know is I'm not doing that shit again! Hopefully you have a better response to it.:(:stoned::stoned:

[Weedhound]

Yeah, i'm a bit too old for things like Salvia.....;)

So Cal is my hometown as well......used to live in horse country.....Norco....and my hubby used to live in Corona.....a GOOD 20 mins from Disneyland :D

[HateHeaven]

Ive done 100x salvia and I will never touch that stuff ever again. It has got to be one of the most uncomfortable psychedelics :mad:

[Opie Yutts]

nice snow, nice area, and great looking labs, always luvd them, great dogs! Fun, social, prolly kill ya with luv!
Yes, thank you Rock. I consider myself very fortunate to be able to live here, and I thank God nearly every day for it. Our family sacrificed a lot to be able to move here, and it was well worth every ounce of effort and finance. We moved from a city comprised of 63% Hispanic and 22% Russian people, where we were robbed twice in 1 1/2 years, and got to see drug deals in front of our house. A city where we occasionally got to hear shots fired in various buildings around the neighborhood, and got to watch the swat team raid the house next door. A city thatâ?¦ and so on. Furthermore, I did not want my children to go to a school that has the 2nd worst grades in the state, and 92% Hispanic classrooms. Why the Russian kids aint in school, I donâ??t know. PLEASE NOTE: Hmm, I was just ready to say that Iâ??m not prejudice, but I guess that might not be entirely true. I suppose itâ??s possible, just a tad, considering my surroundings for that time. And it is a proven fact that the amount of crime in any given area is directly proportional to the percentage of â??minorityâ?� inhabitants. However, (and this is really what I set out to say) I have absolutely nothing against any individual person, no matter what family they happened to be born into. When I lived in California my 2nd best friend was Hispanic, and Iâ??ve enjoyed many a smoke with Russian buddies of mine. I love you until you do something that makes me not.

OK, sorry about the rant, I guess I just got on a roll. Rock ya stirred up some bad memories with that â??nice areaâ?� talk.

And yes the Labs will lick you to death, and fetch anything up to the size of medium trees for hours on end. The Chesapeake Bay Retriever is the same except she will not rest. Ever. If I do not keep her busy fetching something or by petting her, she will spend every minute destroying anything lower than 6 feet.



did some readin on ur new plants, never even heard of it.
my curiosity is Peaked.
saw some utube clips, might wanna get some of those b4 they 'go away'
Iâ??m pretty sure they will go away with in a few years. Well not actually go away, but be illegal to manufacture usable parts of the plant or something, not to grow it. Kinda like the opium poppy. This and many other plants as well. The Man will continually discover new ways to keep us down, as we discover new things mother nature provides to keep us up.



i wonder what the effects would be like to combine a mixed bowl with MJ?????
Please do not mix Sally with anything the first few times she takes you for a ride. She is not to be disrespected or taken lightly. Words cannot describe, Holy Shit. Mother truckin Jesus Mary Joseph. Fuuuuuuuuuck!!! Dad gum it. Wow. What the hell was that? Fuck me with a spoon and slap me with a wet noodle. Neato. Interesting.

Get it?

Take a look at my trip report I linked back there somewhere, not too far. By the way I got them today.

[Opie Yutts]

Just a warning Opie if you have never been under the influence of Sal, watch out! It's some crazy shit.

My first trip on Sal was on 25x too and it was short and I am damn glad it was. I was alone in my bedroom and had just finished a bowl of it, put the bowl down calmly and jumped in the bed sitting straight up like I would be while watching TV. As I settle in, I literally start viewing myself in a 3rd person, yes 3rd person, I was looking down on myself from above. I sat there looking at myself from head to toe, confused and baffled. I finally after 3 minutes!!! came down, and was SOAKING wet, SOAKING to find myself with some of my clothes taken off and soaked. I felt like I had just finished playing a basketball game.

All I know is I'm not doing that shit again! Hopefully you have a better response to it.:(:stoned::stoned:

Thanks for the concern. Lil late, but thank you anyway. Been there done that. Level 4.9 for me 2nd try. Check our my report. I I thin that if an experience like yours was your first one with sally, then you be more likely to freak and not like it. Remember you did 25x the strength of normal. "Normal" being just chewing the leaves and getting some mild pleasant stuff going on.

[Opie Yutts]

Yeah, i'm a bit too old for things like Salvia.....;)

You make it sound like I'm going to have to visit you in the old folks' home soon. Did you not enjoy it as well? Did you over do like these guys?

[Opie Yutts]

Ive done 100x salvia and I will never touch that stuff ever again. It has got to be one of the most uncomfortable psychedelics :mad:

What the hell? 100x? I've never even seen that advertised. And yeah, but think about what you did. If you took a massively huge dose of anything psychedelic for your first time, don't you think you might be a tad uncomfortable then as well? It's recommended that, over a period of time, you start off by chewing the leaves as the great spirit helpers do. Not by concentrating that dose down to 100x and instantly putting it into your blood stream. That must have been a bit scary. What am I talking about? That was probably immensely terrifying. Did you have a sitter to help you along?

[hydrocannabis]

hey any new pix of em?

[Opie Yutts]

Coming soon h.c., nothing new right now.

[rhizome]

I'll stick some pics of mine up as well, when I get a chance.


Fun stuff.

[Mr. Clandestine]

Opie,

Insanely large amounts of kudos to you, my friend! That SCROG is really, REALLY impressive...and even more mind-boggling to me considering that this was all done without soil. A buddy of mine recently had his grow show forcibly shut down. (Because of a snitch, as is usually the case.) Naturally, they took his plants and lights, but he still has $100s worth of pumps, reservoirs, and other assorted gadgets and gizmo's that he doesn't want anymore. I'll soon acquire said gadgetry, and will be trying my hand at the hydro movement soon. Prepare to see a lot more of me in the Plant Problems section!

Forgive my rookie questions, but: Where did you get that digital thermometer...and where can I find those lamp fixtures that'll plug directly into a electrical outlet? Seeing that has got the old rusty wheels in my brain a-spinning!

[Opie Yutts]

I'll stick some pics of mine up as well, when I get a chance.


Fun stuff.

Looking forward to it.

[Opie Yutts]

Hey Mr. C. Thanks a lot for the kind words.

That really sucks about your buddy and the $#@*&! snitch. Why can't... Ah forget it. Worked out OK for you though.

It's great to hear you're going to get your hands wet. Best of luck to you. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at what can happen in hydro. Good one about the problem section, but I'm sure you'll do just fine. Especially with all these fine people here that are willing to help.

Which digital thermometer are you talking about? The one one my back wall was $9 in a Home Depot bargain bin. Talk about a score, it was exactly what I had in mind, and it's worked wonderfully so far. The one on my right wall is a Tri-meter by Nutradip (I think) and is available at fine hydro shops near you, and everywhere on the internet. They claimed I got a discount, then another 15% discount for pre ordering, so it was $174.

The fluorescent portion of my lighting are just, darn what are those thingees called. Lemme see if I have any laying around... OK I'm back. Ask for "outlet to socket" adapters. They also make socket to outlet adapters but that would just be wrong. They're just little prongs that plug into power strips (in my case) and have a spiral socket on the other end to screw a light bulb into. They're $2 each and I've got them at Lowes, Home Depot, Bi-Mart, and True Value Hardware. The smaller stores seem to stock 1 or 2 of these at a time, so I recommend calling first or going to Home Labyrinth if you want to fill up a power strip.

Good luck and glad to have you aboard.

[psteve]

The fluorescent portion of my lighting are just, darn what are those thingees called. Lemme see if I have any laying around... OK I'm back. Ask for "outlet to socket" adapters.I was just at Home DePot, and checked on these for someone else.

Inventory # R42-61-W
Leviton (brand)
'Outlet to socket' adapter.
$2.09 @. Home DePot.

Hope this helps!

[psteve]

I have one word about LST'ing...

VELCRO!
It works GREAT for this!
Just keep the fuzzy side in!

[Mr. Clandestine]

The one on my right wall is a Tri-meter by Nutradip (I think) and is available at fine hydro shops near you, and everywhere on the internet. They claimed I got a discount, then another 15% discount for pre ordering, so it was $174.

That was the one. I've never run into problems with humidity before, besides when I was growing in an overly damp crawl space. But now that I'm about to start dabbling with hydro setups, I know I'll be needing one soon. And thanks for the encouragement, I'll try not to plague the Problems section with questions that have already been addressed. Still though, I totally agree that it's nice to have knowledgeable folks like you around to yell at me when I goof something up!


They're $2 each and I've got them at Lowes, Home Depot, Bi-Mart, and True Value Hardware. The smaller stores seem to stock 1 or 2 of these at a time, so I recommend calling first or going to Home Labyrinth if you want to fill up a power strip.

Word. That's exactly what I'll do, then. I never even knew those things existed until I saw them in your photos. I'm getting all giddy just thinking about putting them to use! Cheers again for bringing that idea 'to light'.

Keep on doing what you're doing...you're doing it very well!

[Opie Yutts]

Leviton (brand)
'Outlet to socket' adapter.
$2.09 @. Home DePot.

What a rip off!

Most of mine were $1.99 at Lowes. That's like, what? X amount? I'm always looking out for great deals. I bought cardboard when it was 4 cents a ton. I made this special deal where I only have to keep 3 tons at my house. Now it's up to 6 cents, and I bought 5 tons, so that's... I don't know, you figure it out as you contemplate the genius of Steve Martin.

[Opie Yutts]

I have one word about LST'ing...

VELCRO!
It works GREAT for this!
Just keep the fuzzy side in!

So... what? You cut off a 1" strip and wrap it around the stem and some support thingee? Not sure I'm understanding this. Sounds a little spendy if you've got a lot of em, but I guess you could re-use them and it would only be a one time investment. Please elaborate. Sorry, I'm feeling a little dumb about this. Where are those brain pictures opie?

[Opie Yutts]

...it's nice to have knowledgeable folks like you around...What, me? Really? Well I spose a little maybe. Drop in the bucket though. Thanks again.


I never even knew those things existed until I saw them in your photos. I'm getting all giddy just thinking about putting them to use!I think that I know exactly what you mean. I absolutely hate shopping, but there are a couple exceptions. One is shopping for electronic gadgets, and another is for weed farming stuff. Not only do I like to browse hydro stores, but I like to just leisurely walk up and down nearly all the isles at a place like Home Labyrinth. In addition to finding stuff I didn't even knew existed, it's rare that I don't get at least a couple new ideas for hydro farming, and sometimes even for dirt farming. Of course it's best if you can do this while you're completely glazed over, but if you do, you might want to consider a little notepad or something, so you don't forget any brilliant inventions.


Keep on doing what you're doing...Weird. That sure brings back memories. The only other time someone's said that to me was while pitching for my old softball team. Those exact words in that exact order. Sniff...where is that California address book?

[psteve]

So... what? You cut off a 1" strip and wrap it around the stem and some support thingee? Not sure I'm understanding this. Sounds a little spendy if you've got a lot of em, but I guess you could re-use them and it would only be a one time investment. Please elaborate. Sorry, I'm feeling a little dumb about this. Where are those brain pictures opie?
I use two kinds of velcro.
One kind has strips of velcro with adhesive on the back, The other kind comes on a roll, and has hooks on one side, and loops on the other.
I put the sticky backed stuff on the pot edges, and on bamboo stakes. Then I use the stuff on the roll to hold the plants where I want them.

[Opie Yutts]

Ah, I see. Sounds like a great idea.

[MVP]

Most of mine were $1.99 at Lowes. That's like, what? X amount? I'm always looking out for great deals. I bought cardboard when it was 4 cents a ton. I made this special deal where I only have to keep 3 tons at my house. Now it's up to 6 cents, and I bought 5 tons, so that's... I don't know, you figure it out as you contemplate the genius of Steve Martin.

Try WallyMart @ $1.29 each. I bought every last one at the store. Too bad they only had eight of them....

[antman20]

yo i could use some advice on my new plants first time
check em out let me now what you think
youre plants look awsome

[Opie Yutts]

yo i could use some advice on my new plants first time
check em out let me now what you think
youre plants look awsome

Done, and thank you. Your's look good too.

[MVP]

Details, my good man, I need details on the grow! Oh no, it's Opie and he details the crap out of everything - in a good way... well...

Uh, I mean I need detailed Photos of the grow. Can you provide pictures of what is growing on with the lovely ladies?

MVP :jointsmile:

[Weedhound]

i'm up for some photos of the lovely green.....;)

[Mr. Clandestine]

Of course it's best if you can do this while you're completely glazed over, but if you do, you might want to consider a little notepad or something, so you don't forget any brilliant inventions.

Of course. I take grand strolls around the Home Labyrinth every once in a while, but I'm no longer allowed to go by myself. My wife insists that she supervises my visits ever since I "surprised" her a few years ago by bringing home a new John Deere riding lawnmower. But, in my defense, it was a great deal...and I got 0% financing for a year on lawn supplies. She's lucky I didn't bring home an in-ground sprinkler system, garden tiller, and more! (Actually, I'm lucky I didn't... she would have outright killed me. I was only mauled for buying the lawnmower.)

As for being glazed over, I find this necessary to endure the dull drudgery of just about ALL of our shopping activities. Spending 3 HOURS at a grocery or outlet store is downright maddening while stone sober...this is generally where I let her do her thing, and I find a nearby hardware or electronics store. My job requires that I do a lot of 1-on-1 interviews, so I've always got a digital voice recorder on hand for those fleeting strokes of genius that need to be remembered. Sadly, I'm constantly erasing them before I have a chance to check them again. Maybe I should carry around a notepad reminding me to check my voice-reminders before erasing them...

[Opie Yutts]

Details, my good man, I need details on the grow! Oh no, it's Opie and he details the crap out of everything - in a good way... well...

Uh, I mean I need detailed Photos of the grow. Can you provide pictures of what is growing on with the lovely ladies?

MVP :jointsmile:

I detail the crap out of everything. Isn't that a little like the pot calling the kettle black? Coming from someone who records every PPM and PH throughout the grow? Anyway, you said it's in a good way, so it's all good I spose.

You people ask and ye shall receive. I'll try to get some recent pictures up later today. You may be shocked though at how suckie my plants are looking. Well most look OK I guess, but one especially is turning completely yellow except for the bud. I'm thinking of harvesting early on that one.

[Opie Yutts]

I take grand strolls around the Home Labyrinth every once in a while, but I'm no longer allowed to go by myself:S2:


As for being glazed over, I find this necessary to endure the dull drudgery of just about ALL of our shopping activities.:S2:


...I've always got a digital voice recorder on hand for those fleeting strokes of genius that need to be remembered. Sadly, I'm constantly erasing them before I have a chance to check them again. Maybe I should carry around a notepad reminding me to check my voice-reminders before erasing them...:S2:Perhaps you also need a dry erase board on your refrigerator to remind you to check your note pad.

[Mr. Clandestine]

:S2:Perhaps you also need a dry erase board on your refrigerator to remind you to check your note pad.

That's brilliant! If I remember to write it down, I'll be sure to do that. :D

[socialistpete]

Thankz for this post I'm going to lst my babies that just went into veg. Never done it before so this will be very helpful!!!

[Opie Yutts]

socialistpete, I'm glad you're finding my thread helpful. It's kinda neat to be an inspiration to someone, but it's a little scary too. If you try my methods or advice, please use your best judgment and don't hold me accountable for anything undesirable that may arise. Of course I'll be happy to take all the credit on your first good harvest though.

Pictures were requested. Pictures it is then. Day 37 into flower, 7-10 more to go. In 3 or 4 days the flushing will begin. Where are my mason jars? I'm going to need about one jar I think. Damn little buds, good thing there's a bunch of em. I hope I need 3 or 4 jars, but I also hope my wife will bring a playboy centerfold model into our bedroom.

You can just make out the one unfortunate plant that decided to nearly up and die on me for some reason. (middle right) The buds are green but nearly all the rest is yellow. Should I pull it now and enjoy an early smoke? Or could it benefit from a few more days of punishment?

[Opie Yutts]

And some buds. Most of us like buds. They don't smell much unless you happen to brush against one, then wow. It's kinda wierd, the bud hairs right under the dayligt CFLs are about half purple. Thoughts?

[HateHeaven]

my buds don't smell much either. but just like yours, when touched smells amazing. I hope the final product smells and tastes like this :stoned:

[HateHeaven]

Also we seem to be flowering the same amount of days :jointsmile:

[Balkey]

How are those trichomes looking sir?

[MVP]

I hope I need 3 or 4 jars, but I also hope my wife will bring a playboy centerfold model into our bedroom.

Wouldn't it be cool if she brought a playmate with 4 full jars into your bedroom? Just a thought...

Thanks for the pics, they are worth 1000's of words. And I like the bud photos too. The purple hairs are interesting. I'm noticing on my Kush clones that the buds closest to the CFLs have much darker hairs than those growing up to the HPS. Hmmm....

[Weedhound]

Wouldn't it be cool if she brought a playmate with 4 full jars into your bedroom? Just a thought...

:S2:

[Weedhound]

Opie you've probably said this a thousand times but what nutes etc do you use?

[Earthy Dank]

And some buds. Most of us like buds. They don't smell much unless you happen to brush against one, then wow. It's kinda wierd, the bud hairs right under the dayligt CFLs are about half purple. Thoughts?

What strain is that? I had a "mystery" skunk plant that had purple and sometimes pink hairs. These were some from last fall. Nice training/lst/scrog. It looks like your gonna have a nice harvest.

[Opie Yutts]

Wouldn't it be cool if she brought a playmate with 4 full jars into your bedroom? Just a thought...

Mind racing... Got any pictures?

[Opie Yutts]

How are those trichomes looking sir?

I haven't examined them closely yet, since this is the strain I usually grow. (AK-47, very powerful, very medicinal) I've pretty much found out that they are done to my liking at 45 days or just over. I usually go for about 10% amber. This time it's a whole new ball game though, and your right I should start checking trichs. Lotsa bud enhancement that I don't usually do, and new foods to boot. I'll let you know soon.

[Opie Yutts]

Opie you've probably said this a thousand times but what nutes etc do you use?

I guess you could call this grow an experimental one. Lots things I've done different than usual. LST with millions of bud sites, and different nutrients are the main changes. My normal brand for nutrients is Fox Farm. I guess the reason I started experimenting is because I'm tired of the lower portion of my plants yellowing more than they should, and an overall light green color, especially in the newest growth. As best as I have been able to surmise so far, the problems are due to nitrogen deficiency, and possibly an iron deficiency causing a slight chlorosis. Oh yeah, not so many details perhaps...

This Grow Only (not my usual):

Cuttings:
- The 1st 4 days or until roots show on all plants, 2 or 3 drops of SuperThrive or ThriveAlive per gallon. Less than 250 PPM.
- The last 4-6 days, the same, plus just a skoshe of grow nutes, which was my usual Fox Farm's Grow Big. Less than 350 PPM.
Vegging, from memory only:
- Into the system, a few drops of ST or TA, a teaspoon of Liquid Karma, a couple teaspoons of grow nutes, per gallon. Less than 600 PPM.
- Up PPM slightly each feeding, same nutes as previous step, until full veg strength about 4 weeks into veg, about 1350 PPM.
- It was about this point that for once I decided to actually try and do something about the yellowing on the bottom half and chlorosis near the top. Decided (with the help of you fine people and some other research) that I needed more Nitrogen and probably more Iron. Asked two of my hydro guys for more N, and came home with Super Natural's Gro Aqua. Switched brands and (hmm, still too much info?) it seemed to help the yellowing a little too late. My typical grow recipe until bloom was 1 tsp. Gro Aqua, 1/4 tsp. Liquid Karma, 1/2 tsp. CalMag (for more Iron to hopefully help the chlorosis), and a few drops of ST per gallon. I cant remember if it was around this time I started using SubCulture, or if it was near the beginning. It's a delicate blend of microorganisms that have an affair with the root zone. 1/10 tsp. per gallon.(http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/subculture.html (http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/subculture.html))
Flowering:
- I ease into flowering nutes usually during the 1st feeding only. Like half veg and half bud.
- After the 1st budding week, it's about (per gallon) 1 tsp. SuperNatural's Bloom Aqua, 1/2 tsp. CalMag, 1/2 tsp. Fox Farm's 3-part bud enhancers, and SubCulture. This is the routine until final flushing, and pretty much doesn't change, except the PPM goes as high as possible around the middle of flowering (proportionally increasing everything), and the Fox Farm's bud enhancers change according to directions, roughly. The hottest these babies seem to want is about 1500 PPM. The schedule for enhancers is as such: Last week of vegging start with a little Open Sesame. Increase amount once budding has commenced. Continue Open Sesame until the middle 2 weeks of budding, which get Beastie Bloomz. After that it's Cha Ching until flushing starts.

I give up. I cannot watch Apocalipto or any other subtitle movie and post at the same time. Out it comes and in goes The Farmer Astronaut. (too much detail?)

Additionally, I give the reservoirs a complete flush about every 3rd feeding. Feedings happen about once every 3 or 4 days in these small reservoirs, every 4-6 with my main set up. Depends on how hungry they are. This goes on from day 1 until the final flush, which begins 5-7 days before harvest. Each flush I drain everything, fill with PHd water, let em sit for a couple hours, then drain again and fill with PH'd flushing agent per directions, which stays for 12-24 hours.

Oh yeah, the occasional foliar feeding with Liquid Light and SprayNGrow happened from the beginning of budding through 4 weeks into budding. I'd like to foliar feed longer, but am fearful of bud rot. Next grow it will be the norm from the beginning. Considering the amazing results from Liquid Light, I'm very tempted to switch to the complete Dutch Master schedule and nutes. Unfortunately this doesn't fit into my "No More Chunks" campaign. We'll see.

I know, too much detail. That's me and my desire to make sure I get your questions answered. Sorry.

[Opie Yutts]

And the secret garden has begun. Can we identify the plants? Wait, how did those pictures get in there?

[Opie Yutts]

What strain is that? I had a "mystery" skunk plant that had purple and sometimes pink hairs. These were some from last fall. Nice training/lst/scrog. It looks like your gonna have a nice harvest.

Thanks Earthy, and it's AK-47. Those are some darn purple-looking hairs you got there. That's what I was talking about on mine, but only half as purple or less.

[GrowMe]

Looks awesome opie...I noticed you keep talking about how small the nugs are goin to be..

About what size do you think most of them will end up being?

[Mr. Clandestine]

And the secret garden has begun. Can we identify the plants? Wait, how did those pictures get in there?

The leafy fella in pic#1 looks like Salvia, but I can't tell what those purple flowers are behind it. Nightshade? I won't bother guessing what the little buttons are, but I imagine they're probably quite a trip!

Just speaking from personal experience on legal toxins, if you ever decide to toy around with Datura, just admire them for their flowers. Nothing else. That plant is wicked toxic and can make otherwise sane people to completely insane things. But many of them are gorgeous when they're in bloom, and worth having around for purely aesthetic purposes.

[Opie Yutts]

Looks awesome opie...I noticed you keep talking about how small the nugs are goin to be..

About what size do you think most of them will end up being?

The 8 or 10 best are 2.5 to 3 inches tall right now. Average is maybe 1". A bunch are smaller. So if you mean end up as in harvested but not dried, then I'm guessing in a week I'll have 8 or 10 that are 2.75 to 3.5 inches tall, and an average of 1.25 inches tall. I wouldn't exactly classify them as growing fast. Too many in such a small space, 9 plants in 3 gallons of nutrients. I don't think they are root bound, but perhaps since there is a big layer of roots, when the water level drops the top ones dry out and possibly don't recover. If so, that can't be too good.

[Opie Yutts]

The leafy fella in pic#1 looks like Salvia, but I can't tell what those purple flowers are behind it. Nightshade? .
Correct on the Sal, incorrect on the second guess. The purple flowers are plain ol pansies and primrose (in back). My son and I put together a little indoor living arrangement for mom.


I won't bother guessing what the little buttons are, but I imagine they're probably quite a trip!.
I wouldn't know. If everything goes as planned, I'll be able to let you know in about 10 years. Slowest growing plant ever. Quite a unique, and sadly endangered specimen.


Just speaking from personal experience on legal toxins, if you ever decide to toy around with Datura, just admire them for their flowers. Nothing else. That plant is wicked toxic and can make otherwise sane people to completely insane things. But many of them are gorgeous when they're in bloom, and worth having around for purely aesthetic purposes.
Thanks for your wisdom and concern. That was one I left off the list of seeds. There are 5 other ethnobotanicals that I now have the seeds for and will soon be attempting to germinate. At this time I will not disclose their identity, since that might ruin the fun of any potential guessing games for fun and prizes. Mr. C., your prize for being 50% correct is the satisfaction of knowing that you were the first. You won man. You did it. You beat everyone else. Nice going.
Plus this smiley: :dance:

Coming soon, pictures of the entire cactus section, including 6 additional varieties for your guessing pleasure. For homework and much better odds on winning the guessing game, look here: Columnar Cacti (http://www.columnar-cacti.org/). For a hint, look under the genera of cacti that begins with the letter that the main Cannabinoidal begins with. Confusing enough? Bet you had no idea there were so many type of cacti.

[Mr. Clandestine]

Mr. C., your prize for being 50% correct is the satisfaction of knowing that you were the first. You won man. You did it. You beat everyone else. Nice going.
Plus this smiley: :dance:

Haha... you're too kind, Opie. I know how conservative you are with your smilies, so I'm honored by this prestigious award! :D

[Balkey]

If Opie starts getting a little crazy here in the near future, we'll know what he's doing, chewing on those Sal leaves!!!!! :stoned::stoned:

Harvest pics would satisfy my needs I think. I have needs!!!!!

[Opie Yutts]

Patience, my young Skywalker. A few more days. Starting flushing today.

[Balkey]

Patience, my young Skywalker. A few more days. Starting flushing today.

MUHAHHAHAHA

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :yippee::yippee:

I feel for you about your migraines though. I can't even imagine tying up all the plants to your screen while having a migraine!

[Opie Yutts]

That aint going to happen this grow. Maybe a few of the biggest ones.

[Opie Yutts]

I know I said that I was going to start flushing yesterday, but things don't always work out as planned.

The runt is definitely ready for the taking. She has about 15% amber trichomes. Iâ??m going to let her suck water and flushing agent for one day then cut her down. Iâ??ve basically got 3 degrees of health in this grow. Thereâ??s Sickhead, Samsonette and all the rest. (See photo.) The healthiest one has the longest still to go, and Iâ??m guessing one reason itâ??s more healthy is because it has a gallon to itself, as opposed to 1/3 gal like the others. Iâ??m guessing 5 more days for her and 3 for the others. Itâ??s only been 42 days, but overall it seem like Iâ??m about a day or 2 ahead of schedule. Could this be due to new bud enhancers, or the addition of 12 blueish CFLs?

[Opie Yutts]

I should have started flushing a little earlier. Today I drained the reservoirs (good thing too since the back one was empty), then overfilled them and flushed them twice, then filled them with PHâ??d water and flushing agent (Clearex) per directions.

[Opie Yutts]

I took a little bud from each of the three stages of health. By looking at the photo of the three, can you guess which is which? Samsonette has barely any amber trichs, and the others except for Sickhead have roughly 2% amber.

[MVP]

When do you plan to fire up a fatty or a bowl so we can get a smoke report?

[Opie Yutts]

Assuming you want a report on the healthiest one, 5 days until harvest, then 3 more until something is dry enough to smoke, so a week and a day, Feb 20, 2008. Meet me here at 8:00 PM. We'll hang, toke a little, or a lot, and talk about weed and the universe. Now if you want a report on anything cured, uh... middle of May?

[Opie Yutts]

Good Lord, I can't stop laughing at your avitar. Just got done watching Blades of Glory. Had a hard time copying that one.

[Rock.Steady]

damm Opie, just Damm:thumbsup:

[Opie Yutts]

Thanks Rock.

[MVP]

Dude, just beating all the newbs to the "When is the smoke report?" question.... But since you offered I gotta book the middle of May for a roadtrip ^^^^ ....

[Opie Yutts]

Sounds perfect, May flowers and all...

[Opie Yutts]

It was a dark and stormy night. The shapes on the opposite wall swirled and moved in time to the music, and eventually turned into snakes and demons and Indians and stuff. In the distance I heard the beat of a different drum. I felt 15 feet tall and as wide as an airport, yet I felt incredibly small in the vast emptiness that was my huge room. Colors everywhere and everpulsing. My insides... Oh wait, that was something else.

It was a regular and calm night. There were no shapes doing interesting things. I took a little pinch of Sickhead and one of the medium health ones, and I popped em in the microwave along with a small glass of water. I microwaved them on the defrost setting for about 4 minutes, turning every minute. Mmmmm nice and properly dried and cured, just the way I like it.

My first small bong hit was from Sickhead, and I realized that I hadn't quite dried them enough. I planned on putting the next hit on a small bed of dry shake to help it burn. I also planned on taking a full hit next time. I was pleasantly surprised how smooth the first hit was, as it rivaled the hits of most properly flushed and cured smokes I've had previously. The taste was that of some kind of berry, or perhaps a mix of strawberry and cherry. Very pleasant, again much to my surprise.

I started posting, but I don't remember where. I had a pretty pleasant buzz going and I remember that I had trouble concentrating when it came time to read or write. The downloaded (legally of course) White Stripes MP3 collection sounded particularly nice and full on my big stereo speakers that I had attached to my PC. I told myself that I ought to listen to those guys more often. Not exactly what I would call hugely talented, but kinda like AC/DC, Trio and Johny Cash; It doesn't matter so long as they can create cool songs that people will enjoy listening to.

After about an hour I suddenly realized that I had yet to take my 2nd hit. I loaded a full hit on a little bed of dry trim and sucked it all down, leaving a little space at the end to fill up with air. As I exhaled I became a little dizzy and my hands began to tingle. The dizziness and tingling soon subsided and I felt a warm relaxing feeling spread throughout my body, yet at the same time my mind began to race. I thought of a lot of cool stuff other than the things I was posting about, but I didn't write anything down and I can't remember most of it.

Then I came back to this thread and started laughing my ass off again at MVPs new avatar. I started my report and now it's at it's end. Dad gum it, I need to get up in a few minutes, so I'd better hit the sack. Nitol.

[Opie Yutts]

Oh yeah, somewhere in the midst of all that I made this:

[Rock.Steady]

why do so many stories start with the
it was a dark and stormy night,,,,,,:wtf:

it was a great read, couldnt put it down:D

[Balkey]

After about an hour I suddenly realized that I had yet to take my 2nd hit.

I do this almost every night. You'd think I'd learn. I enjoyed your lovely story and smoke report. I use the microwave as well, though I'm little more impatient and less concerned with taste for a quick dry and run the microwave on regular settings for about 20 seconds.

Everything is looking good!!!!!! So good!!

If your wrote a book, I'd read it. :stoned:

[hatch]

I know I said that I was going to start flushing yesterday, but things don't always work out as planned.

The runt is definitely ready for the taking. She has about 15% amber trichomes. Iâ??m going to let her suck water and flushing agent for one day then cut her down. Iâ??ve basically got 3 degrees of health in this grow. Thereâ??s Sickhead, Samsonette and all the rest. (See photo.) The healthiest one has the longest still to go, and Iâ??m guessing one reason itâ??s more healthy is because it has a gallon to itself, as opposed to 1/3 gal like the others. Iâ??m guessing 5 more days for her and 3 for the others. Itâ??s only been 42 days, but overall it seem like Iâ??m about a day or 2 ahead of schedule. Could this be due to new bud enhancers, or the addition of 12 blueish CFLs?

Opie Crop Look's Nice!!. Look's like It's Going to be a Great Day!

Liked'ed your Story, Must be over your Headache and in a good mood, That's A Good Thing!. Later

[Opie Yutts]

Balkey, hatch, Rock, mom & dad, everyone, thanks guys. And yes I'm headache free today, and I was nearly headache free yesterday. I love it when that happens. Kinda makes me feel like a real person.

[Opie Yutts]

Iâ??m a little excited because Iâ??m officially switching nutrients, at least on a trial basis. You gotta like the Dutch Master Gold (http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/products/products.php?product=7) series. Iâ??ll be using their nutrient calculator (http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/nutrient_calculator.html) to follow their suggested program as closely as possible. Holy Moely, if their other stuff is 1/10 as interesting as Liquid Light (http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/products/products.php?product=2) itâ??s going to be a fun ride. I went to the hydro store this evening and got all the stuff I needed, which is:

Gold Grow part A
Gold Grow part B
Gold Flower part A
Gold Flower part B
Max (http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/products/products.php?product=11) Veg
Max Flower
Silica (http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/products/products.php?product=14)
Zone (http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/products/products.php?product=13)

I bought all the smallest units they had which were liters. Grand total not counting the T-5 lights = $164.38. I had already purchased a gallon each of Liquid Light and Penetrator (http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/products/products.php?product=3), which is a highly recommended part of their feeding schedule. I forget the price but it was insane. When I got home and compared my receipt to online vendors I found the hydro store to be about the same or better in price. I got 2 lights to go in the mother/propagation/secret garden area, which are 6500K 4 footers with reflectors and surprisingly solid hanging hardware, for $44.06 each.

Look at these if you would like more info on using the Gold series with Liquid Light:
The 603KB version (http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/Downloads/Gold_LL_Infosheet_web.pdf) (pdf)
The 5.0MB version (http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/Downloads/Gold%20Training%20Sheet.pdf) (training paper) (pdf)

Now of course I couldnâ??t just get out of there without parting with more money than that. The knowledgeable guy and the very knowledgeable guy and I just let the phone ring twice while we talked about the fact that Dutch Master is emphatic about wanting absolutely no supplements, root colonizers, or boosters of any kind to be used with the Dutch Master schedule. They claim it will screw things up tremendously, since their system is already formulated to be some really powerful stuff. The more experienced one said he could never part with his Advanced Nutrients (http://www.advancednutrients.com/) bud boosting 3 part series, so he called Dutch Master to talk about it. They told him it might be OK, but it had never been tested as far as they knew, and to just try it on one plant, and to be sure and not go over the total recommended PPM. So he decided to try it on his whole grow, while staying within the correct PPM. He said he was amazed at the results and how well everything went. The other guy agreed, so of course now I have to switch from Fox Farms 3 part bud enhancement series to the Advanced Nutrients 3 parter, which is:

Bud Blood (https://www.advancednutrients.com/advancepedia/product.php?productID=11&catID=26) â?? used the first week of budding according to the hydro guy, or the first 2 weeks according to the web site.
Big Bud (https://www.advancednutrients.com/advancepedia/product.php?productID=5&catID=26) â?? for weeks 2-4
Overdrive (https://www.advancednutrients.com/advancepedia/product.php?productID=41&catID=26) â?? for weeks 5-7 roughly, flush last week.

I bought the smallest sizes of each, for a total of $69.50. I'd appreciate feedback from anyone who has experience using any of them.

There it is. I just hope you wonâ??t get mad at me for not supplying enough links.

[Weedhound]

WOW are you gearing up or what!!! I'll be watching to see how that Gold does for you.....had my eye on it myself since I started using the LL.

Your "sea" looks terrific. What kind of weight do you usually end up with on that kind of scrog?

[hydrocannabis]

So U downloaded (legally of course) White Stripes MP3 collection sounded particularly nice and full on my big stereo speakers that I had attached to my PC.

they R one of my favorit bands. I even saw them live in concert.

and UR plants/buds look beautiful.:thumbsup: :jointsmile:


and I dry my buds in my food dehydrator and it only takes like an hour.

[Opie Yutts]

Your "sea" looks terrific. What kind of weight do you usually end up with on that kind of scrog?

I'm not sure, I've never really done this type before. This was nearly all LST and nearly zero topping. I don't even remember what my last grow weighed in at, but for some reason 8 oz comes to mind. (I know, not real great.)

[Opie Yutts]

and I dry my buds in my food dehydrator and it only takes like an hour.

Wow, one hour? That's pretty cool. I've thought about building a dehydrator. They don't look real complicated.

[hydrocannabis]

1 other cool thing about drying ur buds in a dehydrator is that they don't over dry and they dry fully with out cooking the trich.

[MVP]

Don't they end up tasting a little more 'grassy' than normal?

[Rock.Steady]

I'm not sure, I've never really done this type before. This was nearly all LST and nearly zero topping. I don't even remember what my last grow weighed in at, but for some reason 8 oz comes to mind. (I know, not real great.)

sounds crazy great to me:thumbsup:

[Opie Yutts]

Don't they end up tasting a little more 'grassy' than normal?

Anyone? Should I bother building one? Buhler?

[Opie Yutts]

Last night I pulled out sickhead. It's almost like I should never have bothered, but at least the others will have a little more. Please try not to laugh at the small buds. Popcorn buds? I wish. Try pea buds, or pin head buds. I like that, shoot I should have named her Pinhead.

I'll let you know on the weight when I can. 1/4 oz?

Do you like my highly technical drying apparatus?

[Mr. Clandestine]

1/4 oz?

Gotta be more than that, and those buds look mighty tasty! If they're one-hit-wonder buds, you don't need much. :stoned:

What did you do differently in this SCROG that you wouldn't have normally done? Besides not topping/training... I remember reading that. If you already mentioned this earlier, I apologize. I got lost somewhere around post# 10,482...

[Opie Yutts]

Yes, normally they are nice n tasty, but what I've had off this particular plant so far could be a little better, since I dried it in the microwave. Yes it pretty much is a one hitter, but with my high tolerance I usually take 2 or 3 just to play it safe. Wouldn't want to just get partially stoned, you know.

What I did differently is it's a whole new screen, and I couldn't make up my mind what direction I was going with the grow in general. I ended up winding vines around wire way more than I should have, and I LST'd instead of my normal topping style. I wasn't planning on using a screen at all when I first started out, then I had to retrain a whole bunch of branches so I could get my hands to the back, under the screen. I'm pretty sure I'm going back to topping since you have more control over bud size and amount. I want much less buds next time, and I want em bigger, darn it. I suppose the biggest difference is the reservoir size. This grow each plant gets 1/3 gal., as opposed to the my normal 1.5 or something. I still wasn't asleep by 3:00 AM last night. I was laying there thinking about what to do different next time and LED lighting.

[Mr. Clandestine]

Wouldn't want to just get partially stoned, you know.

:detective1: Naturally. That would be a partially terrible waste of time.


I'm pretty sure I'm going back to topping since you have more control over bud size and amount.

Topping over training, got it. I'd like to give SCROG'ing a shot one day, this is good information to know. I should write that down... now, where is that damn refrigerator?


I still wasn't asleep by 3:00 AM last night. I was laying there thinking about what to do different next time and LED lighting.

Yeah, I've become nocturnal too. It's especially difficult to sleep when you stroll through a well-lit growroom in the middle of the night. You could go back into a pitch black bedroom and still see a blue or orange glare every time you close your eyes. That can't be good, maybe I should start wearing sunglasses when I go in there... :cool:

[Opie Yutts]

I should write that down... now, where is that damn refrigerator?
Ha Ha


Yeah, I've become nocturnal too. It's especially difficult to sleep when you stroll through a well-lit growroom in the middle of the night. You could go back into a pitch black bedroom and still see a blue or orange glare every time you close your eyes. That can't be good, maybe I should start wearing sunglasses when I go in there... :cool:

Tell me about it. Light show!

[stonerbob]

This is my first grow and im trying LST on my 3 week old. Is this too early? How often am I supposed to rotate the plant from screw to screw. Am I doing it halfway right? Any advice would be much appreciated.

[denial102]

This is my first grow and im trying LST on my 3 week old. Is this too early? How often am I supposed to rotate the plant from screw to screw. Am I doing it halfway right? Any advice would be much appreciated.

you should really wait until they have 4 or 5 sets of fully mature adult nodes!! I would, anyway.

Goodluck bro,

Peace,
Denial

[Rock.Steady]

opie, are u saying you normally top more? more than once?
what kinda schedule do you use when u top, or multi-top.

just me, but im starting to think 'top once with some lite LST'.

[stonerbob]

Thanks man. I'll wait on the LST

[Opie Yutts]

opie, are u saying you normally top more? more than once?
what kinda schedule do you use when u top, or multi-top.

just me, but im starting to think 'top once with some lite LST'.

Yes, I normally will top 2-4 times per grow. There is no schedule or pattern. Just when I think it looks like I need a certain plant to be more bushy or to stop growing so tall, I'll go ahead and top. My veg area has limited vertical space, plus I usually try to get a couple extra branches for my screen.

PS. It seems like topping does the opposite of stressing my AK-47. She goes crazy mad.

[Balkey]

Oh I love the drying machine you got there Opie. I would bet it might take 30 minutes for them to dry with that!!!!!:stoned::stoned:

Is that a trashcan under the screen to catch debris? I just love it!!!! hahaha. I'd say at least an O from that plant. Buds are looking tasty though. :hippy:

[Opie Yutts]

I'd say at least an O from that plant.

Oh, I would love that. I'm not quite sure I share your optimism. We shall see in a few days.

[Opie Yutts]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the mid health range plants this evening. They've got some good amber going, and an occasional clear still left. The yellowing is starting to eat into the parts of the leaves that are covered in trichomes, and that's a no-no for my style.

If anyone reading would be so kind as to help me with some sexing, please go here: http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-growing/150024-please-sex-me-up.html

Here are some new photos of the mother section right after a tie down session. The first one is my bonsai AK-47, and the other one is likely a temporary BBxNL mother that took like 4 months or something to decide to start revegging. They look a little trashed? Really? Well sometimes that happens when you don't look in on them for a week. They had grown into the light and got burned, at some point they ran out of water and nearly died, and somewhere in there the light stopped working. If anyone has any ideas as to why my fluorescent tubes keep doing this I would be grateful if you shared. If I unplug the light and plug it back in, the lights go on again and everything is fine for a day or 2.

[Mr. Clandestine]

If anyone has any ideas as to why my fluorescent tubes keep doing this I would be grateful if you shared. If I unplug the light and plug it back in, the lights go on again and everything is fine for a day or 2.

It kinda sounds more like an issue with the ballast or fixture itself, rather than the bulb. I had a fluorescent fixture in my kitchen that started doing something similar, and it turned out that the contact pins on the tube weren't always making full contact with the ballast and completing the circuit. Mine was probably about seven or eight years old, though.

There's a lot of cool information at this site, and some resources to help you troubleshoot: Lighting Resource (http://www.lightingresource.com/) Maybe that'll give you an idea what you're dealing with.

And those mothers look fine! Luckily for us, these hardy plants can also tolerate absentmindedness from their gardeners. May they give you abundant clonage! :jointsmile:

[MVP]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the mid health range plants this evening. They've got some good amber going, and an occasional clear still left. The yellowing is starting to eat into the parts of the leaves that are covered in trichomes, and that's a no-no for my style.

I agree, chop them fuckers down brotha before they smoke themselves!!


They look a little trashed? Really? Well sometimes that happens when you don't look in on them for a week. They had grown into the light and got burned, at some point they ran out of water and nearly died, and somewhere in there the light stopped working.

Well thank goodness they are a WEEEEEEEED, right? Just go ahead and try to kill them. They'll come back. Wanna bet?

[Opie Yutts]

This is my first grow and im trying LST on my 3 week old. Is this too early? How often am I supposed to rotate the plant from screw to screw. Am I doing it halfway right? Any advice would be much appreciated.

I would probably wait a little longer, but as long as she can handle it without stressing it's OK. I don't know what screw to screw means, but all you do is tie or wire down the main shoots, so that preferably they are lower than the other shoots that you want to become main shoots too.

[Weedhound]

opie, are u saying you normally top more? more than once?
what kinda schedule do you use when u top, or multi-top.

just me, but im starting to think 'top once with some lite LST'.


FREEZE MISTER! :wtf:

[Opie Yutts]

Mr. C. I agree that it's probably a ballast issue. We get a lot of power outages here, and spikes and drops. It can't be too good for electronics. That is my 3rd light. I don't know if they will tolerate another exchange. Actually I'd say it's time to get my money back and try a different brand. Just got some T-5's, we'll see how they hold up in there. Thanks for the link.