$9,000,000,000,000 [Archive] - Green Grass Forums

killerweed420

11-08-2007, 10:42 PM

9 trillion in debt to corrupt foreign nations.
The Associated Press: National Debt at Record $9 Trillion (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iysuMkhgYOGlcySlgMom_teZ6WcQD8SP46T00)
C/P
The national debt has hit $9 trillion for the first time.

The Treasury Department, which issues a daily accounting of the debt, said Wednesday that the debt subject to limit was at $9 trillion on Tuesday. It was $8.996 trillion on Monday.

Last month, Congress passed and President Bush signed into law an increase in the government's borrowing ceiling to $9.815 trillion. It was the fifth debt limit increase since Bush took office in January 2001. Those increases have totaled $3.865 trillion.

The administration contends the rising debt reflects such factors as slow economic growth during the 2001 recession, the Sept. 11 attacks and the cost of fighting terrorism.

This is why we need Ron Paul.

FlyGuyOU

11-08-2007, 11:00 PM

Fucking insane.

Innominate

11-08-2007, 11:38 PM

How can they do this to us?

Krogith

11-08-2007, 11:41 PM

WOOO HOOO the Share Holders are Smileing From Ear to Ear. Go Buy Weaponds and Tank Parts. War Spending is makeing some FAT pockets!

Foot Note: China has no debt.

aardvark

11-08-2007, 11:43 PM

In more positive news, the dollar value has fallen to 4 cents, so in reality the debt is really only $360 billion.

Don't you all feel better now? :jointsmile:

Krogith

11-08-2007, 11:44 PM

In more positive news, the dollar value has fallen to 4 cents, so in reality the debt is really only $360 billion.

Don't you all feel better now? :jointsmile:
ROFL!

TallCoolOne

11-08-2007, 11:45 PM

yet MORONS AND ONLY MORONS still support him

Psycho4Bud

11-08-2007, 11:46 PM

Gandalf_The_Grey

11-09-2007, 01:18 AM

I was just watching "The Hour" with George Strombolopoulas on CBS. He made a very good point: "While correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation, this is something to consider; In the 1980's the US's national debt was at $1 Trillion. That's over a hundred years, from George Washington to Ronald Raegan. Over only the past 25 years, their national debt has gone from $1 Trillion to $9 Trillion. 17 of those 25 years had a Bush in power".

From what I've seen Bush economic policies have failed again and again. The numbers are hard to argue with. (and no, Clinton didn't do anything to help the situation).

epxroot

11-09-2007, 01:29 AM

THIS is why we need Ron Paul? Under his "guidance" we'd no longer be selling arms across the world but I'll bet our imports wouldn't change proportionally. More people out of work.....less exports, same imports.......doesn't add up.

Have a good one!:s4:

This isn't about trade. This is about a money system that is only backed up by confidence. Our dollar will collapse if we do not get rid of the FED. We can not keep printing paper with no value and expect our dollar to remain strong. To make it really simple Monopoly money = American money there is no difference between the 2 they're both just paper. I am sure all of you have seen the pics of Germans burning money by the piles just to heat their homes, or pushing wheel barrels of money to buy a loaf of bread. This is fact, and I repeat fact! Every nation with printed money that is not backed by anything has fell.

thcbongman

11-09-2007, 01:35 AM

This isn't about trade. This is about a money system that is only backed up by confidence. Our dollar will collapse if we do not get rid of the FED. We can not keep printing paper with no value and expect our dollar to remain strong. To make it really simple Monopoly money = American money there is no difference between the 2 they're both just paper. I am sure all of you have seen the pics of Germans burning money by the piles just to heat their homes, or pushing wheel barrels of money to buy a loaf of bread. This is fact, and I repeat fact! Every nation with printed money that is not backed by anything has fell.

I'm all for getting rid of the federal reserve. An new monetary policy would have to developed.

But that's the one issue I don't agree with Ron Paul. We should not revert back to the archaic gold standard. It'll do more damage than good in the long run.

epxroot

11-09-2007, 01:43 AM

I'm all for getting rid of the federal reserve. An new monetary policy would have to developed.

But that's the one issue I don't agree with Ron Paul. We should not revert back to the archaic gold standard. It'll do more damage than good in the long run.

Care to give me your idea on having sound money backed by something of value?

thcbongman

11-09-2007, 02:02 AM

Care to give me your idea on having sound money backed by something of value?

Could you name me one country on the world that doesn't implement fiat currency as it's monetary policy?.

That's how it's been for quite sometime. A sudden revert to the gold standard would devalue the dollar so badly, the consequences would be far greater than the depression. The value of the dollar is tied to the speculation of government demand, and it's not a bad thing to be able to calculate demand based on trends. The government just has to stop spending so goddamn much, that's the problem.

killerweed420

11-09-2007, 02:27 AM

I believe in order to get this country back on strong fiscal ground its going to take some hard choices.Is it fair to leave this debt for the next generation just because our greed got away fom us?
Base the dollar on real assets not just paper.And get rid of the debt asap! My choice would be to renegotiate lending rates or threaten to just default. What are they going to do? Come reposess us?

thcbongman

11-09-2007, 02:34 AM

They couldn't repossess you, because there is nothing of value to take. They would have to write it off. Basically you'd end up with a government that would no longer function. That would no longer have the means to pay to perform services. That would send the country into anarchy.

Change would have to come in a subtle form of fiscal responsibility and restraint, not a revert back to the gold standard, which would destroy the country.

Psycho4Bud

11-09-2007, 03:07 AM

This is fact, and I repeat fact! Every nation with printed money that is not backed by anything has fell.

Guess the entire world is in for a suprise then because that system of backing currency is long gone.

Gold standard
Main article: Gold standard
The gold standard is a system in which the price of the national currency as measured in units of gold bars and is kept constant by the daily buying and selling of base currency to other countries and nationnals. (i.e. open market operations, cf. above). The selling of gold is very important for economic growth and stability.

The gold standard might be regarded as a special case of the "Fixed Exchange Rate" policy. And the gold price might be regarded as a special type of "Commodity Price Index".

Today this type of monetary policy is not used anywhere in the world, although a form of gold standard was used widely across the world prior to 1971. For details see the Bretton Woods system. Its major advantages were simplicity and transparency.
Monetary policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetary_policy)

Look up how currency is valued based on a peg, basket, float.....

This "business" we call our country is just like any other.......income, debits, credits, etc........

Have a good one!:s4:

epxroot

11-09-2007, 06:34 AM

Could you name me one country on the world that doesn't implement fiat currency as it's monetary policy?.

That's how it's been for quite sometime. A sudden revert to the gold standard would devalue the dollar so badly, the consequences would be far greater than the depression. The value of the dollar is tied to the speculation of government demand, and it's not a bad thing to be able to calculate demand based on trends. The government just has to stop spending so goddamn much, that's the problem.

There are none thats the problem. All of the worlds money is controlled by a banking system that controls the money in the world. Who do you think owns these banks, the people? Just so you know the dollar is already crashing and has been crashing. The euro is already worth more than the dollar, and there is talk of the euro becoming the new standard for world trade, and dumping the US dollar. China is already dumping it's investments in US currency along with other countries. A world based on a fiat system with nothing backing any of the money is up is heading towards a world collapse in the economy. That would mean we would need a one world economy, and who do you think would be in charge of this one world economy? The same people who were at fault for the collapse of it. Right now the US dollar is in trouble and in a bad way.

Our system is ran on Debts and Credits which is kinda weird since we have been taught all our lives that debt is bad. But yet we still think we can pay off this debt that we are in, but what a lot of people don't understand is that there is not even close to enough money in circulation to pay this debt off. We would be wise to go back to having something giving our money value. If gold is so bad why are all the rich of the world investing in it? I'll tell you why because precious metals and stones are the only things that hold value. Right now an ounce of gold is over $800 due to how bad our dollar is right now. I could go on typing more, but I am tired so more than likely this post may seem confusing. guess I should have just posted it tomorrow. Plus there is a lot to try and type in one post to explain.

epxroot

11-09-2007, 06:35 AM

Guess the entire world is in for a suprise then because that system of backing currency is long gone.

Exactly!

killerweed420

11-09-2007, 06:54 AM

We just need to back off this idea that debt is OK. Its not.You pay as you go. Ron Paul would be the only presidential candidate capable of doing this. All other candidates will just continue raising our national debt.
Just default on the loans. If we didn't have to pay the exorbitant interest rate we would be fine. So then whats the worse than can happen. Nobody will loan us money anymore. Good fuckem

Nailhead

11-09-2007, 10:00 AM

All other candidates will just continue raising our national debt.

Seriously, either you have the dems creating a crapload of new socialist programs or the neo-cons going to war with Iran, either way the country is heading towards bankruptcy. If Ron Paul looses the primary I'm not voting, nobody else is worth voting for.

killerweed420

11-09-2007, 05:53 PM

Thats why its rare for me to vote for any candidate. I usually just vote for the intiatives and referendums and don't even bother filling in any dots for candidates. I will be making an exception next year.

yokinazu

11-09-2007, 09:28 PM

who do we owe all this money to?
and heres a word about the germans and wheel barrels full of money. yes it did happen but has anyone here read "the rise and fall of the third reich"? if so it will explain the reason and it was pretty ingenios
basicaly after ww1 the germans were in so much debt that they would never be able to repay. when hitler took power one of the first things he did was to lower the value of the mark. by doing this no country in the world wanted to deal with that many marks so they forgave the war debt, hence ending the debt. so say that we are 9 trillion in debt and we devalue the dollar to where its only worth 1/100 of what it was that would now be 900 trillion debt. and nobody wants 900 trillion worthless dollars layin around.

Psycho4Bud

11-09-2007, 09:32 PM

In order to do a fair evaluation of the "national debt" you have to compare THAT to the GDP.

Have a good one!:s4:

thcbongman

11-09-2007, 11:33 PM

There are none thats the problem. All of the worlds money is controlled by a banking system that controls the money in the world. Who do you think owns these banks, the people? Just so you know the dollar is already crashing and has been crashing. The euro is already worth more than the dollar, and there is talk of the euro becoming the new standard for world trade, and dumping the US dollar. China is already dumping it's investments in US currency along with other countries. A world based on a fiat system with nothing backing any of the money is up is heading towards a world collapse in the economy. That would mean we would need a one world economy, and who do you think would be in charge of this one world economy? The same people who were at fault for the collapse of it. Right now the US dollar is in trouble and in a bad way.

Our system is ran on Debts and Credits which is kinda weird since we have been taught all our lives that debt is bad. But yet we still think we can pay off this debt that we are in, but what a lot of people don't understand is that there is not even close to enough money in circulation to pay this debt off. We would be wise to go back to having something giving our money value. If gold is so bad why are all the rich of the world investing in it? I'll tell you why because precious metals and stones are the only things that hold value. Right now an ounce of gold is over $800 due to how bad our dollar is right now. I could go on typing more, but I am tired so more than likely this post may seem confusing. guess I should have just posted it tomorrow. Plus there is a lot to try and type in one post to explain.

Not all debt is bad. It depends on credit worthiness. Otherwise you wouldn't have an entity that buy another's debt, because of the interest they get in return. It's a practice of restraint that financial institutions have no observed in the past decade or so, issuing loans that's bound to default. None the less, in terms of idealism, it should be backed by metals of value. One can argue that the US is a hybird of fiat and private currency, since the federal reserve is privately owned, by backed up by the U.S. Treasury.

I addressed some similar points you made in another post, of how we have to start strapping down debt before a group of investors pull another George Soros when America becomes economically vulnerable, which is slowly creeping into that territory.

But the solution is not to implement a gold standard. As you pointed out: we don't have close to enough money in circulation to pay it this debt off, is exactly the reason. It'd have to take decades of planning, and paying down debt to put ourselves in a position to make that kind of economical switch as you propose. To do it too soon will cause anarchy to reign.

I'm sorry, I don't want to live life, sitting on my rooftop, with a M-16.

killerweed420

11-10-2007, 12:01 AM

In order to do a fair evaluation of the "national debt" you have to compare THAT to the GDP.

Have a good one!:s4:
That charts not looking too good for the red team.I've got a friend who is heavily into investing.He told me when Bush was elected to move all my investments to foreign investments.I didn't think it made much sense but now I see it does.

Subjekt

11-10-2007, 01:29 AM

Well, just to make all your paragraphs short...

NWO , if your smart you know what i mean, if not look it up on youtube.

Peace :cool:

Innominate

11-10-2007, 03:57 AM

Well, just to make all your paragraphs short...

NWO , if your smart you know what i mean, if not look it up on youtube.

Peace :cool:
It is very important that everyone understands the ideology of the New World Order, Skull and Bones Secret Society, and any other evil imperialist power group the cowards embark. We might be fighting this very enemy one day.

yokinazu

11-12-2007, 04:47 AM

still lookin for the answer
who do we owe all that money to?
c'mon somebody should be ale to tell me

Subjekt

11-12-2007, 04:51 AM

It is very important that everyone understands the ideology of the New World Order, Skull and Bones Secret Society, and any other evil imperialist power group the cowards embark. We might be fighting this very enemy one day.

We kinda are fighting the IDIOTS..

Psycho4Bud

11-12-2007, 04:54 AM

still lookin for the answer
who do we owe all that money to?
c'mon somebody should be ale to tell me

We owe it to the people and entities that have bought or received U. S. debt instruments, such as Savings Bonds, Treasury Notes or Treasury Bills.
That includes:

Average folks like us
Large and small corporations
Banks
Pension funds
Insurance companies
Various U. S. government entities such as the Social Security Trust Fund
State and local government entities
Foreign investors
Foreign corporations
Foreign governments
National Debt FAQ (http://www.greatreality.com/DebtFAQ.htm#WhoOwe)

Hope this helps.....................

Have a good one!:s4:

Subjekt

11-12-2007, 05:00 AM

USA just about owe's the world some currency, notice the value of US money is dropping....

Psycho4Bud

11-12-2007, 05:14 AM

And yet the exchange rate to the Chinese Yuan is:
7.44 CNY:1 USD
Exchange Rates Graph (American Dollar, Chinese Yuan) (http://www.x-rates.com/d/CNY/USD/graph120.html)

Have a good one!:s4:

MistaGanja

11-12-2007, 05:29 AM

Are money should be backed by Chronic nugs!!!!!

shaggzx

11-12-2007, 05:34 AM

Are money should be backed by Chronic nugs!!!!!

That it should. Legalize it here and we could control the market, take Amsterdam off the map and do so with a smile. Shit, how about taxing churches, they're so insterested in public policy, let's tax the mother fuckers, as my boy George would say.

yokinazu

11-13-2007, 04:40 AM

thanks p4b that web page was very informative.

Gandalf_The_Grey

11-13-2007, 09:21 PM

That it should. Legalize it here and we could control the market, take Amsterdam off the map and do so with a smile. Shit, how about taxing churches, they're so insterested in public policy, let's tax the mother fuckers, as my boy George would say.

I agree churches shouldn't be meddling in political policy as they do, but there's no way I'd support setting a precedent to tax religion.

lildicedan

11-13-2007, 09:26 PM

WHOS IN DEBT FOR 9 TRILLION? AMERICA? DDAAAAMMMNNN HOW CAN ANYONE EVEN MAKE THAT MUCH MONEY, ITS HARD ENOUGH TO GET A BILLION FORGET ABOUT A TRILLION

Psycho4Bud

11-13-2007, 10:40 PM

WHOS IN DEBT FOR 9 TRILLION? AMERICA? DDAAAAMMMNNN HOW CAN ANYONE EVEN MAKE THAT MUCH MONEY, ITS HARD ENOUGH TO GET A BILLION FORGET ABOUT A TRILLION

Sounds like alot but our GNP is over $13 trillion. Some may still bitch but compared to the average Joe tax payer that has an income of $40,000 with a $120,000 home mortgage (which is on the low side).......it's not really that bad.

Have a good one!:s4:

Gandalf_The_Grey

11-14-2007, 12:28 AM

It's still an unacceptable amount P4B, there's no way you guys can pay it off within a generation or two. Our government, here in Canada, has been putting a lot into paying off our national debt. They've managed our finances so well that our debt has gone tens of billions down (out of a few hundred billion), managed to institude huge tax cuts that are actually proportionate unlike Bush's "Middle Class Tax Cuts", and still our economy is stronger than ever. I think the Bush administration could actually take a few lessons from us on financial management!:D :p

God knows this stupid Iraq war has cost hundreds upon hundreds of billions of dollars, plus ruined their international reputation, plus done AlQaeda a huge favor for their recruitment efforts, plus killed thousands of Americans, then wounded and brain-damaged tens of thousands more, on top of killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's.
That, right there, is shitty fiscal, security, and foreign policy management.

Even if the whole conflict is won tomorrow and Iraq stabilizes, how exactly will this war create a return big enough to cover even 1/10 of the expenses in money, lives, and repuation?

killerweed420

11-14-2007, 12:33 AM

As much as I haven't cared for the dems they had lowered our national debt during Clinton's reign.$9 trillion is an amazing amount of debt and when the dems get into power they will be taxing the shit out of people to get it lowered. Hopefully they will target big business and people making over $100,000 a year to pay the bulk of it.

Psycho4Bud

11-14-2007, 12:35 AM

Psycho4Bud

11-14-2007, 12:38 AM

As much as I haven't cared for the dems they had lowered our national debt during Clinton's reign.

Clinton and the hoard of Dems did what???

Have a good one!:s4:

Gandalf_The_Grey

11-14-2007, 02:19 AM

Must be nice to have Big Brother to the south taking care of the military spending. I have a GREAT idea........how about if Canada picks up the slack for once in 200 years and invests into defense?
As for Iraq.......as we discussed before, the Vultures really shouldn't complain about what the wolf killed.

Have a good one!:s4:

LOL, I wish America would be more honest and call "defence" what most of it really is; "offence". Just imagine if the government tried to convince the people to invest in more "offence spending":D

BTW, in WW2 Canada had one of the most powerful navies in the world, so "200 years" isn't really applicable. And right now Harper (our prime minister) is increasing our military size and equipment, keeping us in Afghanistan to help with the war America launched (which I agree with), and the current government is reviving the Canadian aerospace industry to produce fighter jets and other military aircraft.

Markass

11-14-2007, 03:40 AM

this stupid excuse for a motherfucking war is not worth the economic disparity that this country is going to be in for who knows how many years from now...I had been curious as to what the real figure of our national debt was...this is simply outrageous...

Maybe rather than this stupid fucking war we could spend $80 million dollars a day putting the lesser wealthy young men and women through college..they say the reason we can't have socialized medicine is due to a lack of doctors...why is there a lack of doctors? Because just as many that are able to afford medical school, if not more...have the same abilities, yet a lack of financial ability to go put themselves through school...

I come from a middle class family, we're not rich, nor are we poor. I'm in my third year at a vocational technology center for computer and networking classes. I'm relying on this free education to acquire skills I will use in the future in the workforce. Go to college and get a piece of paper that can get me a better job is a great idea, except the fact that I don't have $120 to transfer every credit hour to a college..It'd be nice if the government would care more about getting me through college than some foreigner in the desert through school...

I'm quite very intelligent when it comes to computers and networking, and this year I'm learning about network defense...I'd love to go to college, I could get such a higher paying job if I did so, but the government's too focused blowing money out of politicians asses than to maybe put me through college for free..

Markass

11-14-2007, 03:44 AM

Clinton and the hoard of Dems did what???

Have a good one!:s4:

wow, bush has pretty much outspiked his daddy from the national debt during his reign of terror(in the middle east)what happened there anyhow? I'm quite very unfamiliar with it..whatever we did then though, didn't make them like us any more..they definitely hate us quite a bit more I think...

Psycho4Bud

11-14-2007, 04:51 AM

LOL, I wish America would be more honest and call "defence" what most of it really is; "offence". Just imagine if the government tried to convince the people to invest in more "offence spending":D

BTW, in WW2 Canada had one of the most powerful navies in the world, so "200 years" isn't really applicable. And right now Harper (our prime minister) is increasing our military size and equipment, keeping us in Afghanistan to help with the war America launched (which I agree with), and the current government is reviving the Canadian aerospace industry to produce fighter jets and other military aircraft.

Number 15 UNDER such countries as Mexico, Indonesia.......Big Bro says your welcome.:thumbsup:
World Military Strength Ranking (http://www.globalfirepower.com/)

Have a good one!:s4:

Psycho4Bud

11-14-2007, 04:53 AM

wow, bush has pretty much outspiked his daddy from the national debt during his reign of terror(in the middle east)what happened there anyhow? I'm quite very unfamiliar with it..whatever we did then though, didn't make them like us any more..they definitely hate us quite a bit more I think...

That was ALL the United States kicking Iraqs butt out of Kuwait? LOL....seems if I recall, at that time it was the popular (world opinion) thing to do.

Have a good one!:s4:

Markass

11-15-2007, 02:45 AM

That was ALL the United States kicking Iraqs butt out of Kuwait? LOL....seems if I recall, at that time it was the popular (world opinion) thing to do.

Have a good one!:s4:

well it damn sure isn't popular now...especially amongst american citizens...

As I heard said...Usually it's the military's commander in chief who represents them, but betrayus did the last big shabang, because nobody believes a fucking word of the complete and utter bullshit that comes out of george bushes mouth..

Psycho4Bud

11-15-2007, 04:23 AM

well it damn sure isn't popular now...especially amongst american citizens...

As I heard said...Usually it's the military's commander in chief who represents them, but betrayus did the last big shabang, because nobody believes a fucking word of the complete and utter bullshit that comes out of george bushes mouth..

According to polls, Gen. Petraeus had a favorable rating of over 60%. Nice spin from Moveon.org though.

Likewise, seems that the dems aren't as anxious to retreat as they were in "06". Like I've stated, by the time elections get here the Democratic candidates will be saying that we can win with the right guidance. LOL

Have a good one!:s4:

Markass

11-15-2007, 01:17 PM

According to polls, Gen. Petraeus had a favorable rating of over 60%. Nice spin from Moveon.org though.

Likewise, seems that the dems aren't as anxious to retreat as they were in "06". Like I've stated, by the time elections get here the Democratic candidates will be saying that we can win with the right guidance. LOL

Have a good one!:s4:

but the majority of americans will be saying that if we were going to 'win' it would've happened within the past four years...

It's amazing how something as stupid as a war can bring down my level of respect for this country...My government cares more about Iraq than they do about me :( I bet the iraqi people have had more help with healthcare from the american government in the past four years than I have had my ENTIRE life...

Once this shit continues on, and a draft is inititated, myself as well as several of my friends/buddies are going to abandon this so called 'land of the free'

because in the 'land of the free' we shouldn't eventually be forced to fight in something we absolutely do not believe in..simply because our idiotic president has gotten too many of our soldiers killed

And I feel bad for the few individuals I know in the Oklahoma National Guard who were hoping to merely assist in this state when their help was needed, who now are being shipped to the desert..