CFL Light Intensity Question...

[thex420]

Does anyone know the optimum positioning of a CFL. What I mean is, does a CFL's light intensity radiate parallel to the bulb (inline with the coil) or perpendicular to the coil. I don't know exactly how to explain my question, but I do not know if I should align my bulbs so that they point at my plants, downward vertically, or if they should be aligned so that they point outward, horizontally.

Does anyone know ?

[Opie Yutts]

I'm not sure with those coiled ones, but I would certainly get one of those cheap reflectors with clip thingees. That would solve the problem and use the light more efficiently.

My guess would be pointing down.

[CannabisCarl2134]

Cut some beer bottles in half and use them for reflectors. is that way your saying? Im so high...hope it helped haha

[growbe]

Cut some beer bottles in half and use them for reflectors. is that way your saying? Im so high...hope it helped haha
I hope you mean cans?:D

[420tea]

HAHAHAHAHA he said bottles. quick get the glass cutting diamond blade McGuyver!

[thex420]

lol yea, im hoping you meant cans too, im going to try placing them horizontal in plastic tubs. ill get pics up when i have it done.

[Opie Yutts]

aluminum cans will most likely bounce the light back and forth in the can, and any that can get out will shine straight down, and not out at a cone shape that is desired. Just look at how reflectors are designed, and make something like that out of thin sheet metal or mylar covered plywood or something. Just 1/4" plywood painted flat white would do a good job.

Show me the plastic tubs you speak of.

[EXP13]

I don't know exactly how to explain my question,

Does anyone know ?

lol, I know exactly how to answer your question though. :smokin:


Here's the deal.

Fluorescent lights are all the same. They are a tube filled with pressurized gas that gets excited easily. The light generated from this shines out in absolute infinite direction. Meaning if the tube is round, it's shining out in all 360* of the tube, all the way down it. This is why the WHOLE tube glows...

The CFLs are EXACTLY the same. The only difference is they are smaller tubes which are coiled to achieve a better space to light ratio.

With almost any light, the only way to effectively "direct" the light is to have a non-spongey reflective surface OPPOSITE the side you want the light to affect and EVERYWHERE you want the light NOT to go...

I suggest MYLAR and some creativity.

[Opie Yutts]

Fluorescent lights are all the same...

With almost any light, the only way to effectively "direct" the light is to have a non-spongey reflective surface OPPOSITE the side you want the light to affect and EVERYWHERE you want the light NOT to go...

Of course fluoros are not all the same, but yes they in general use the same technology. There are hundreds of types of fluoros, and many of them are mostly useless for growing.

What a cool way of describing how a reflector should be designed. I never heard it put quite like that, and what a surprise, it makes perfect sense. Have a little rep.

[EXP13]

Of course fluoros are not all the same, but yes they in general use the same technology. There are hundreds of types of fluoros, and many of them are mostly useless for growing.

What a cool way of describing how a reflector should be designed. I never heard it put quite like that, and what a surprise, it makes perfect sense. Have a little rep.

Heh, thanks. :jointsmile:

Well yes, of course, not all fluorescent lights are "the same" so to speak but they all operate exactly the same, at least to my knowledge. Even on different ballasts. (electronic or magnetic.)

Thanks for the clarification man..lol.

[Opie Yutts]

Well if by operate the same, you mean they use electricity to excite mercury vapor that's in an argon or neon gas, thus resulting in a plasma which produces an ultraviolet light, which causes any number of combinations of phosphors coatings to fluoresce, or light up, then yes, they all operate exactly the same.

Anyway I got curious and did a little search. Been thinking about switching to all fluoro in my veg chamber, and supplementing my HPS in the bud chamber with a couple-3 blue-geared fluoros. Thought I might share.

Fluorescent lamps:
- Blacklight
- Blacklight blue
- Sun
- Grow
- Germicidal
- Bug Zappers
- Electrodeless induction, which means there are no electrical connections inside the bulb. The energy is transferred from around and through the glass using electromagnetics.
- Cold-cathode fluorescent, used in scanners, LCD and TV displays
- Dimming
- Therapeutic
- High output
- Very high output
- Miniature
- Circline
- Outdoor

Compact Fluorescents (CFL):
- Spiral
- Triple Tube
- Standard
- Globe
- Flood
- Candelabra

Within those you have different:
- Phosphor combinations that use various blends of rare earth and metallic salts.
- Number of phosphor coatings.
- Gasses used to make the phosphor glow.
- Methods of creating a ballast: resistor, inductor, microwave, or capacitor for magnetic ballasts, transistor or semiconductor for electronic ballasts, or hybrids.
- Current; DC or AC
- Amount of flicker
- Amount of hum
- Start up methods: instant, preheated, rapid, cold, or programmed.
- Failure methods: emission mix, ballast electronics, phosphor efficiency drop off, or mercury absorption.
- Spectrums of color based on the Kelvin (K) scale.
- Watts.
- Lumens.
- Levels of mercury toxicity.
- Degrees of harmful ultraviolet light.
- Degrees of generated radio frequencies.
- Degrees of color faithfulness. Color relativity indexes (CRI).
- Fitting types
- Installation methods

I know I'm leaving a bunch of stuff out, but whatta ya want from a stoner. Feel free to add, comment, or rebut.

[EXP13]

Well, I think we covered just about everything from reflecting light to how and what fluoros use to operate...

:S2:

Good luck with your reflector! :jointsmile:

[Zcomp]

I can answer this one.
The light shines most intense from the sides.
If you look at your bulb you'll notice a thicker layer of phosphorous that must block some light.

[Opie Yutts]

Oh yeah, I forgot odor eliminating fluorescents too.

Wherever the light shines, you'll want a reflector aiming it toward the plants. They're like $2.

[qdavid]

Back to the question, I think you have to go by the number of lumens for an accurate comparison. I don't remember the numbers but I do know that an HPS has a much higher number of lumens per watt. That's the key. A little searching will answer your question. It's here. But look at lumens.

[qdavid]

Oops. My bad. Question was positioning. Somebody said side of bulb. Cool. No wonder the buds toward the back of the cab get bigger than right under the bulbs. Thanks.

[Opie Yutts]

Back to the question, I think you have to go by the number of lumens for an accurate comparison. I don't remember the numbers but I do know that an HPS has a much higher number of lumens per watt.

Huh? What does this have to do with his question? Like I said you cannot be sure unless you look at spec sheets or call the mfg or do a light meter test. That's why I was suggesting that you could just solve any issues about it by getting a $2 reflector. Just because someone says something one way or the other, without backing it up with something, that doesn't mean it's the correct answer.

[Opie Yutts]

When you do the light meter test, make sure you are not checking for lumens, since that's only what the human eye sees. You want to check for radiant flux instead of luminous flux, since that is the real amount of light.

[qdavid]

Huh? What does this have to do with his question? Like I said you cannot be sure unless you look at spec sheets or call the mfg or do a light meter test. That's why I was suggesting that you could just solve any issues about it by getting a $2 reflector. Just because someone says something one way or the other, without backing it up with something, that doesn't mean it's the correct answer.


Oops. My bad. Question was positioning. Somebody said side of bulb. Cool. No wonder the buds toward the back of the cab get bigger than right under the bulbs. Thanks.

Man. I said that. Geez. I'm so, so, sorry.PLEASE, PLEASE accept my humblest apology. Oh well. Whatever. I love know-it-alls.

[EXP13]

It's not about being a know-it-all. Besides, he probably didn't see that you posted your message before he did. Who knows, maybe he clicked quote, started typing then had to hit the shitter...The point is, don't be so sarcastically pesimistic...

And the know-it-alls here on cannabis.com are important to all those who seek guidance from experienced cultivators. It's about having the correct information for the appropriate topic. Depending on where you live, growing cannabis is a big risk. You better do it right.

The "know-it-alls" can help with that. Or not...Your choice really.

Just sayin..:wtf:

[privatepile]

If it wasnt for "Know it alls" i would still be buying over priced low quality weed.

Now i am able to grow thanks to the "Know it alls".

Especially Opie Yutts he has helped me so much and i am so gratefull.

[thex420]

Preach! I think I am going to place them horizontally so that the sides of the bulbs are pointing towards the plants and not just the tips. Without any data that seems like the most reasonably anyway because that is where the larger amount of surface area is. There is no single person who is a "know it all" Proven data is the only "know it all"

Making the reflectors tonight, will post pics...

While there is a bunch of people in this thread, What is a good easy basic beginner nutrient system. Im needing a three part (veg, boost, bloom) and then a superthrive sort and a bloom booster.

Thanks !

[Opie Yutts]

Man. I said that. Geez. I'm so, so, sorry.PLEASE, PLEASE accept my humblest apology. Oh well. Whatever. I love know-it-alls.

Sorry man, I didn't understand what you meant by your next post. I was a little (or more than a little) stoney at that time. Didn't mean to come down on you. I just didn't get it.

[Opie Yutts]

It's not about being a know-it-all.
...The point is, don't be so sarcastically pesimistic...

I hope you are not saying that I think that I'm a know it all. I have said in many of my posts that I have so much to learn yet. Even the know it alls have stuff to learn. And I was not trying to be sarcastic or pessimistic. I was just laying it down the way I saw it, even if I saw it incorrectly, which I've apologized for.

[Opie Yutts]

If it wasnt for "Know it alls" i would still be buying over priced low quality weed.

Now i am able to grow thanks to the "Know it alls".

Especially Opie Yutts he has helped me so much and i am so gratefull.

Thanks for that. I mean really. But agian, I'm far from a know it all. I'm just glad to pass on what knowledge I have in the weed farming category. People helped me once and I am trying to help back.

[Opie Yutts]

Making the reflectors tonight, will post pics...

While there is a bunch of people in this thread, What is a good easy basic beginner nutrient system. Im needing a three part (veg, boost, bloom) and then a superthrive sort and a bloom booster.

Thanks !

Looking forward to the reflector pics.

I use Fox Farm hydroponic stuff, for both dirt and hydro, and am very satisfied. For the superthrive sort I would buy SuperThrive. You only need a couple drops per gallon so buy the little one. Not for use during flowering.

[EXP13]

I hope you are not saying that I think that I'm a know it all. I have said in many of my posts that I have so much to learn yet. Even the know it alls have stuff to learn. And I was not trying to be sarcastic or pessimistic. I was just laying it down the way I saw it, even if I saw it incorrectly, which I've apologized for.

:S2:

No man, I was basically defending the know-it-alls. (You, me, us!) lol.

It's all good. :jointsmile:


Even the know it alls have stuff to learn.

Absolutely.


I was just laying it down the way I saw it, even if I saw it incorrectly, which I've apologized for.

And I was appraising your judgment..:D

[thex420]

I use Fox Farm hydroponic stuff, for both dirt and hydro, and am very satisfied. For the superthrive sort I would buy SuperThrive. You only need a couple drops per gallon so buy the little one. Not for use during flowering.

I noticed that the Fox Farm Bloom nutrients are an organic nutrient. Is this the case for most 3 part systems ? Have you had any problems with organic nutrients clogging in 1/4" drippers or sprayers ?

[Opie Yutts]

Unless you have unusually fine holes in the sprayers there should be no problem. I use Fox Farm's Grow Big and Tiger Bloom in my sprayers and haven't had a problem yet.

[spongebobsmokepants]

I'm ready...i'm ready.....i'm ready eddy eddy. (whistling) bahahahahahahaha

[Opie Yutts]

Unless you have unusually fine holes in the sprayers there should be no problem. I use Fox Farm's Grow Big and Tiger Bloom in my sprayers and haven't had a problem yet.

I guess I should say that I have inline filters though. I'm sure that makes a difference, but they don't even need cleaning much.

[thex420]

Got all my reflectors done finally. Let me know what you think.

[Zcomp]

That looks good.
are those 42W CFL's?
That would mean about 5200 Lumens per hood.
You may want to go bigger.
are these hoods for veg only?

[EXP13]

Very good idea.

Now if you could get your hands on some MYLAR and line the insides of those with it you would be good to go.

Only problem now is the inevitable fact that those plastic-tubs will conduct a bit of excess heat. But considering you're using CFLs, even a small to moderatly sized fan can easily circulate the heat out of the area.

[kdspecial]

yeah i might try and fit a small computer style fan on those hoods. just cuz they are made of plastic.

good luck

kd

[thex420]

That looks good.
are those 42W CFL's?
That would mean about 5200 Lumens per hood.
You may want to go bigger.
are these hoods for veg only?

No, Those are 27s 5500k. They are what I will be using for veg. For flowering, the largest 2700k bulb I could find that would fit two in a hood was 30w 2k lumens. So I only have space in the hoods for 4k ea hood, 12k lumen total. I was hoping by placing mylar on the entire cab I could use every bit of the 12k. I will also be trying to squeeze in a few more bulbs wherever I can.
Light has been one of my biggest worries. With the space I have, I couldn't really fit in a HID, plus cool it. I looked at 40w bulbs, but I couldn't fit two in a tub, so I would have the same total wattage for a higher price.

If I keep these hoods as close as I can, and vent them very well, should 12k-16k Lumens suffice in a 2X1 scrog environment.

[Zcomp]

Don't count yourself out on HID. During Veg I would use the CFL's. But my research shows that 150W HPS will produce less heat than your 180W of CFL's.
Just think... If HPS produces more lumens per watt then the assumption can be made that it burns cooler. Since more electricity is transformed into light, then less electricity is left to produce heat.
I could be wrong on this. But none have corrected me on it.

[Opie Yutts]

You should be fine. You will get weed. Very inventive, good job. Of course it would be better if you could do some HPS during bloom. You'll of course get more weed that way. Mylar is way over rated compared to flat white, but it looks like those tubs are kind of glossy. I would get a can of flat white paint or mylar the insides.

[thex420]

Thanks Opie. I really wanted to go HPS, but just didn't want to bite off more than I could chew with the first grow. If it goes well, and I can keep temps down with CFLs I'll try beefing up my fan and going HPS.

The tubs were originally clear. So I painted the outsides of the hood, which left the thin clear plastic on the inside with the white behind it. Is the clear plastic going to interfere with reflectivity. I know the light is going to refract while traveling through the plastic before it hits the white, but I just don't know how that is going to effect the hood.

Also because it is painted, when I turn the hood on, you can see light glowing through the white. Would it be smart to put a black layer over the white so that it doesn't glow ?
The inside of the hood would still remain white, but the outside would be black.

[Zcomp]

The clear plastic tubs are probably absorbing allot of light rather than reflecting it. That probably accounts for why it glows so well LOL.
Paint the inside and you'll probably reflect more.

[thex420]

Don't count yourself out on HID. During Veg I would use the CFL's. But my research shows that 150W HPS will produce less heat than your 180W of CFL's.
Just think... If HPS produces more lumens per watt then the assumption can be made that it burns cooler. Since more electricity is transformed into light, then less electricity is left to produce heat.
I could be wrong on this. But none have corrected me on it.

I think I have heard that somewhere and it makes total sense. This would also mean I would have to have an external ballast located outside of the cab. Its something I definately want to do in the future, but I think I am going to stick to CFLs unless I can get a HPS for around 60 bones. I know there are some security lights at HomeDepot, but I'm not so sure on trying to make a reflector and mounting for one of these.

Im about 250 deep in the cabinet now, the costs add up a lot faster than I was expecting. All I have left to buy is nutrients and seeds.

[Zcomp]

I feel you brother. The cost adds up very quickly.
But when you taste your first couple of dried/cured O's, You'll be singin a different tune LOL.
Then once you add up what you save in herb cost, You'll know in your heart.
Just think...2 O's of "the good" cost around $600-$800.
Till then, Good luck getting there.

[Opie Yutts]

For your first one, it's the thrill of the grow, to have fun, to learn things, and maybe you'll even get a little weed out of it.

I would definitely paint the insides with flat white, or put some mylar in there with a non-explosive spray glue. I don't know how much light is absorbed in the tub before reflecting back, but any absorption there should not be. Glossy concentrates light in certain spots instead of diffusing it as flat does.

2 cans of paint - $8
Increase in 1st yield as opposed to now - $16 worth of weed. Exactly.

[thex420]

For your first one, it's the thrill of the grow, to have fun, to learn things, and maybe you'll even get a little weed out of it.

I would definitely paint the insides with flat white, or put some mylar in there with a non-explosive spray glue. I don't know how much light is absorbed in the tub before reflecting back, but any absorption there should not be. Glossy concentrates light in certain spots instead of diffusing it as flat does.

2 cans of paint - $8
Increase in 1st yield as opposed to now - $16 worth of weed. Exactly.

Its been a thrill so far, and I don't even have my seeds yet.


I feel you brother. The cost adds up very quickly.
But when you taste your first couple of dried/cured O's, You'll be singin a different tune LOL.
Then once you add up what you save in herb cost, You'll know in your heart.
Just think...2 O's of "the good" cost around $600-$800.
Till then, Good luck getting there.

If I can get two ounces of dense buds out of this first time grow I'll definately be singin.... lol Hopefully the taste will inspire a HPS for the next go around !

[Zcomp]

Actually bro, its gonna be density that inspires HPS. :(
Unfortunately for us CFL users, The intensity isn't enough to produce the most dense buds. My indica came out pretty dense but the sativa was very airy. I think cause of the light requirements for sativa are higher. I noticed that the indica wouldn't survive in direct sunlight while the sativa seemed to soak it up and love it.
Keep that in mind when you decide on strain. :thumbsup:

[Opie Yutts]

My understanding is that in general sativas are more fluffy and airy, so that makes perfect sense. But what do you mean that indicas don't survive in sunlight? They grow in sunlight all the time, so I'm confused.

[PHATTY LUMPKINS]

I have a question. If i were to put 12,100. Lumens of CFL Light's in a 22 Gal. Rubbermaid. Will that be enough Light to Flower two plant's?

[Zcomp]

ahh sorry about that, I meant didn't survive well. And I should mention that the sun here(SouthUSA) is intense and hot(95F-115F).
Both had to go outside one day while my power was out. And to that effect the indica looked horrible when I brought it back in while the sativa was standing straight and just generally looking healthy.
At first I thought it was all from heat stress. So acting as a true scientist, I set forth to prove myself wrong. I put both of them in a window that receives great light and found that the indica still looked pretty stressed after one day.
I imagine that after a week or so they would have adjusted to the light.

And I had no clue that sativa's were supposed to be more airy. But now that you say it...
I was under the impression that the only limiting factor in density was light(not penetrating enough).

[Opie Yutts]

Wow, 115? My condolences. I can imagine that any plant might not survive in those temps. I can see now what you mean, since I kinda thought most MJ plants won't survive anything over 105.

I've never heard that before about indicas, and I thought I knew everything. (kidding) Does that have something to do with what part of the world they came from? Always lernnin.

[Zcomp]

actually yes it does.
Sativa's have more "accessory pigments"(thats why there a bolder green). That pigment allows them to easily adjust to intense light, Indica's are short on that pigment, thus they need more time and more gradual shift to greater intensity.
And yeah I was surprised too(115F) but, in mexico it must be hotter, and they've got tons growing. from what I understand, they grow mostly sativa's for the brickweed "you" get.
I would imagine that both would have at least been stunted by 115F. But my thought is that I don't have a 100% Sativa strain. and they do.

[thex420]

damn this turned in to a pretty good thread. thanks for the info zcomp. c99 is a heavy sativa right ??? I was really liking the look of it, with the low odor and all. but with cfls and a scrog setup, what seems to be the best indica dominant strain ?

[Zcomp]

I have no power to grant any strain the title "Best". But if I were to name a couple that I like.... White Widow or White Rhino.
What ever you pick remember, Your first grow is probably gonna be stunted in some way, Don't judge a strain until you've worked with it enough to bring out its full potency. That could take 2 or 3 grows of the same strain. I've noticed that each harvest of a strain gets better and better as you learn what your strain likes.

[thex420]

I have heard c99 requires a lighter amount of nutrients. Would this mean I could cut all strengths in half. Meaning, instead of 1/4 strength nutrient for young clones it would take 1/8 strength. Full strength for flowering would then be 1/2 strength....

Is this something I could go by ?

[Opie Yutts]

I have a question. If i were to put 12,100. Lumens of CFL Light's in a 22 Gal. Rubbermaid. Will that be enough Light to Flower two plant's?

Any light is enough to flower with. But do you want any weed for your efforts? I would want more light than that.

[Opie Yutts]

but with cfls and a scrog setup, what seems to be the best indica dominant strain ?

This is the wrong section for that question, but... what do you mean best? What's the best car? What's the best pizza or ice cream flavor? What's the best sexual position?

These questions and the one you asked are subjective. That basically means it's a matter of opinion, and they could change at any time.

This might help:
http://boards.cannabis.com/strains-seeds/138958-most-potent-marijuana-most-prefered.html

[Zcomp]

opie's right. Dodge Viper VR4 Twin Turbo, Sals pizza, cherry garcia and doggystyle are just my opinions. They might change later tonight.

[thex420]

True, but I was suggesting more of a strategical approach. Eg. Using a indica strain because of their lower light requirements, (as zcomp suggested) Also, using a branchy strain that is easy to train. All strains have their ups and downs, and I would like to find a strain that its ups matched the needs of a CFL hydro scrog. I didnt really ask for the best general strain, I set constraints. If I asked for the best 4 wheeling vehicle, surely you wouldn't tell me a dodge viper. Contraints are important. Potency is not one of my constraints, my constraints are: Low light requirements, branchy, etc. C99 seems to be my winner, but zcomp mentioned that sativa dom strains do not do as well with cfl lighting.

If this thread needs to be moved it would be fine in my log thread, as it pertains to most questions I have had about setting up my grow.

[Opie Yutts]

opie's right. Dodge Viper VR4 Twin Turbo, Sals pizza, cherry garcia and doggystyle are just my opinions. They might change later tonight.

You've got good taste. I don't know Sals, but Yes! to the others. I've lusted after the Viper since it first came out. Always choosing the Viper in video games.

[Opie Yutts]

thex420, in that case, you're defiantly going to want an indica. Did you click that link about the best? Take your choice. Most any you can prune, LST, FIM, top, or whatever, to make it do what you want, screen or otherwise. Some don't like it, but most will tolerate it if you try to be gentle. One of the best way to find out what individual varieties do is to look at what seed sellers have to say. One place I often look is Marijuana Seeds (cannabis, pot) shipped worldwide (http://www.kindseed.com).

[Zcomp]

You've got good taste. I don't know Sals, but Yes! to the others. I've lusted after the Viper since it first came out. Always choosing the Viper in video games.

Yeah dude, I fell in love during GT3 When I hooked up over 1000 Horse. Then my friend working at a dodge dealership took me for an orgasm inspiring ride. I'll never stop reminiscing of that day, The day I became a part of the seat going 0-60 faster than I imagined a car could.

Thex420, Opie's right on again. Pick an easy cloning indica. If you want it a little leggy, look for an 80/20 I/S or 60/40 I/S. Light amounts are subjective, the more light the more bud. on any plant. After your first harvest, decide on how much more you may need.
I can tell you with confidence, My indica bagseed produced huge buds under CFL only, and in dirt. Its possible to do anything.

[thex420]

Thex420, Opie's right on again. Pick an easy cloning indica. If you want it a little leggy, look for an 80/20 I/S or 60/40 I/S. Light amounts are subjective, the more light the more bud. on any plant. After your first harvest, decide on how much more you may need.
I can tell you with confidence, My indica bagseed produced huge buds under CFL only, and in dirt. Its possible to do anything.
Perfect answer, thanks man, just what I needed. Might just drop the whole c99 thing, and just clone this nice looking indica my buddy has growing right now. Short and bushy, Just ask for a clone and start there. Goes good, then buy the sweet cindy. I am still going to grow that bitch sometime in my life time :)

Might try aero bubbling the clone, looks like a pretty sure fire way from what I have heard on some bubbler threads.

air stones, pump and tub on the walmart list tommorrow..

Is there someway I can get this posted my grow thread, its pretty much my log so far.

This got too long, BAKED.

:stoned:Im out !:stoned:

[Opie Yutts]

Is there someway I can get this posted my grow thread, its pretty much my log so far.

You could copy and paste what you think is important, or provide a link to this thread in your log.

[Zcomp]

Yeah I use the aero cloner myself. Just tap water(declorinated) & SuperThrive and 100% success thus far(12 clones in). Takes about a week and I use low intensity CFL's with a humidity dome. Once roots appear I replant in soil.

[Opie Yutts]

IMO, that is the best way to get a high success rate, and big beautiful gobs of roots.