Sad...

[TryptamineScape]

So my mom is 60 years old. she is on 11 medications for diabetes, blood pressure, cholesterol, and various other needless things. The one that really scares me the most is the anti-depressant. She's been on anti-depressants since my dad died 14 years ago. They have changed the medication so many times I can't keep up, because she keeps building tolerances. Everytime they get a new "wonder" drug she's on it, because after 14 years I guess it's hard to find one that works. Without the pill her mood is erratic and crazy. With the drug she has mood swings. Either way she's not quite herself. She's high strung and always on edge. Everynight her nose bleeds from her medications. She has side effects but the doctor's only cure is more pills. More pills, more side-effects, repeat. She's always down about her medical state and the doctors are all like, "I have no idea what to do". Her anti-depressant is starting to not work again, and her doctor told her, "I can't think of any other drug safe for you." ...

I CAN...

How does one go about explaining to a 60 year old Baptist woman that is afraid of police that there is something that will change her life for the good?

[tenajtimmad]

tell her youve seen documentaries on it and tell ask her if she has ever come across it as a youngster.. either way see if she would consider it and that you thought of this as a good solvent

[snowblind]

just make her some brownies. say the chocolate will lift her mood.

[TryptamineScape]

you know, I actually thought of that...but then I'd feel like hell if she had a heart attack or something freaking out trying to figure out what was wrong with her...cause even though I get high everyday, if I suddenly got high and had no idea why or where it came from, I'd probably freak out.

[beachguy in thongs]

In states where it's illegal, a doctor won't even consider herb (as a medicine). If someone takes pills for years, their heart may be trained to handling that.

I'd be careful that she doesn't pass out, while holding it in.

But, remember, make sure that she's clean from the other drugs, first. Psychoactively, it's not a good thing to mix Weed with pills, and/or beer.

[snowblind]

yeah that is a good point but internally would probably be the best way as it would be longer. just dosage is really hard to gage. the trouble is you don't know how she will react because all the psycoactive drugs she is takin will be affecting her neur transmitters.

i really feel for your situation because it sounds like your mum has gotten onto the chemical treadmill. i am no pscologist of pharmacologist but it sounds like your mum really needs to get off the drugs shes on. it is likely that she will be irractic when she doesnt take them because her body is either not producing or producing way too much chemicals to compensate for the drugs. so when she is off them she would be all out of whack.

there are alot of things that can be done for depression, but it sounds like her inital reasons for the depression have long since subsided but it is the drugs and her situation that is causing her to get worse.

does she exercise much? eat healthy foods? nuts, fish, vegetables, coldpressed olive, sunflower and hemp oils all can help produce the nessecary basis for producing the right chemicals in the brain.

it might be time to seriously sit down with your mum and talk to her about viable sustainable alternatives to her concoctions of drugs. but if it is something she doenst think she can do then you can't carry the burden of her on you.

hope this helps

[TryptamineScape]

thank you...all I can do is talk to her...just wish me luck

[beachguy in thongs]

If I were her, I'd give it 1-3 days clean, then start slowly.

I don't think she'd want to handle too many hours un-medicated.

[TryptamineScape]

by now, I'd be afraid the withdrawals would be more dangerous in and of themselves...

[beachguy in thongs]

That's where the cannabis comes in, I'd think.

Cannabis is widely used for the withdrawal symptoms of other drugs.

[TryptamineScape]

I'd have to do alot more research on that area first

[beachguy in thongs]

I'd have to do alot more research on that area first

Go here. PubMed Home (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=pubmed)

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

More pills, MORE PILLS, MORE PILLS!!! I know how that is, it's the only treatment doctors offer me too. Sadly medical science has put almost all it's focus for so many ailments on medications and little more.

I wish there was more research put into alternative treatments, figuring out how they work, and how to isolate their effective mechanism and apply it effectively. I'm not necessarily advocating "altnerative medicine" as so much of it is junk, but there are many non-pharmaceutical approaches that should be looked at. For instance acupuncture, which I 100% disbelieved for many years, is turning out to be a more effective pain treatment than chiropractic, physio, or massage.


Has your mom looked at any alternative treatments or lifestyle changes TryptamineScape? I wouldn't be surprised it StormCrow had a few ideas on this. For instance, I've found that 3-4 administrations of salvia divinorum leaves (not extract) per week is an amazingly effective anti-depressant; a lot of people have discovered this actually.
Likewise, ever since starting a regiment of 5-7 grams vitamin C with 400IU Vitamin E per day one year ago, I have never been anywhere near sick, and I used to get sick all the time.
I recently took up tai chi and particularily qigong practices, and it's done wonders for my energy and mood. Maybe you mom could try that.
Meditation might be a good idea too.

I'd say it's time to start looking at all the options, because pharmaceuticals obviously aren't alleviating your mother's suffering.

[birdgirl73]

TryptamineScape, please don't feed--or administer in any other fashion--cannabis to your mom without her knowledge. If we're ever going to get anywhere with cannabis as a respected choice for medical help, adults need to make up their own minds to use it. We don't advocate stealth cannabis administration, just like we don't advocate people smoking out their pets, either. You don't know how it will act on her with any certainty, and it's not an ideal medicine for everyone, particularly not for someone with advanced diabetes, heart disease or hypertension. She sounds like she very likely has some serious circulatory challenges with which to contend, and cannabis probably isn't well indicated for someone like that. It's not a wonder drug for everyone, you know. I wish more people would be wise enough to realize this.

You say she's being given medicine for "needless things," which is an alarming conclusion for you to draw unless you're her physician. Sounds like she has some serious health issues if she's taking medicine to keep her blood sugar and her blood pressure down. I'm guessing if she has nosebleeds, she may also be on some form of anticoagulant to help her avoid an embolic stroke, but some anti-hypertensives can cause nosebleeds, too. Please don't encourage her to go off those medicines just because you think she's on too many. Without what she's taking, she would likely be in much worse shape or possibly even disabled or dead. Encourage her to talk to her doctor(s) about simplifying her regimen of pills, and if there are any she can spare, then she needs to taper off the medicines according to their directions. There's a lot of prejudice, misinformation and suspicion about antidepressants going around these boards, which I think is unfair to those millions of folks for whom they work well.

Gandalf, there you go again. You can't possibly know what is helping his mother and what isn't because you're not her doctor and you're not the patient in this case. I'm all for alternative therapies when they work--particularly exercise and meditation for depression--but Tryptamine's mother and someone with concrete medical training need to make up their minds about that, not strangers on a cannabis board.

[silkyblue]

Im sure your very worried about your moms health "the pills "dont cure, and the body, only wants 'one drug'. No other drug will replace the crave for what the body wants, some of her meds she probably needs to take.
The heart meds mainly HBP isnt ,to mess wif does she talk to you about herby?
Roll her up a j, set it beside her, with a bic, and a tray, tell her to try it" she might "enjoy it "just one puff would blow her away, show her how to smoke it, its a nack!

good luck

[silkyblue]

tell her "it" belongs to a friend and you got one for her

:jointsmile:

[TryptamineScape]

see, I know better than to get her to stop taking her medications. I just know that there are much better alternatives...what I meant by needless ones are the anti-depressant...by now she's just dependant on it...it's working backwards...she stay more depressed than she was when she first got on it...that's what i mean by needless...

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Gandalf, there you go again. You can't possibly know what is helping his mother and what isn't because you're not her doctor and you're not the patient in this case. I'm all for alternative therapies when they work--particularly exercise and meditation for depression--but Tryptamine's mother and someone with concrete medical training need to make up their minds about that, not strangers on a cannabis board.

*sigh* yes indeed, "there I go again
:rolleyes:. Seems you're so fixated on this image of me you see it when it's not even present. Don't even try telling me I'm dolling out medical advice. Citing a couple things I specifically said worked for me isn't a medical advisory, it's word of mouth. This standard you're using to constantly get on my case is getting rediculous; "this worked for me" is basic communication between any kind of people of any education.
And yes, I stand by it, look at alternatives. If I describe how to carry out an alternative therapy rather than a professional in the field, you'll have something to complain about. In the meantime, I'd appreciate not constantly catching shit from you for basic information exchanges that normally come up in a casual conversation.

[birdgirl73]

Gandalf, I stand by what I said. You might want to review what you wrote in the thread, which I'll link below. You weren't doling out pharmacological information this time, but you were venturing into telling Tryptamine that his mom was being over-"pilled" and making sweeping generalizations about modern medicine that have no basis in fact except in your own perception. You also suggested alternative treatments. Like I said, I stand firmly by the "There you go again." You border on compulsivity in this area, and if you want me and/or FBR to stop hassling you about this stuff, you will likely need to find another specialty than medicine. You can expect to, as you so charmingly put it, catch lots more shit about this sort of thing if you keep this up.

http://boards.cannabis.com/medicinal-cannabis-health/138033-sad.html#post1690899

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

So if I've got this right...


you were venturing into telling Tryptamine that his mom was being over-"pilled"

I said that more pills is often the only treatment conventional medical science currently offers. I make and made no allusions to his mom's need for the pills, only that it's sad that doctors often don't have other options (which I attribute to failures in conventional medical doctrine, not doctors). See what I mean? You draw conclusions from what I say that aren't there. My being unhappy about the limit in available options has nothing to do with whether or not she actually needs the meds.



and making sweeping generalizations about modern medicine that have no basis in fact except in your own perception.

Meds are often the only option doctors have available, am I wrong? Do I have to be a politician to complain about politics? A lawyer to complain about laws?


You also suggested alternative treatments.

Yeah, I pointed that out my self. I said look into alternatives. Are you seriously going to tell me people shouldn't even look into anything? Acupuncture, chiropractic, meditation, yoga.... Oh no! Don't you dare look into them!

And as I said, citing something that worked for me personally isn't medical advice, it's word of mouth, the kind that normal people have in normal conversation. The restricitons on speech in this forum have become so mod-nazi'd there's no sense even calling it "medicinal cannabis and health" any more seeing as nobody's actually allowed to discuss health in any way, shape, or form.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

btw check this out, you'll blow a casket!:D

Health Forums Medical Questions Information Encyclopedia (http://ehealthforum.com/health/health_forums.html)

[birdgirl73]

Gandalf, you have a PM waiting for you, and if you want to push this issue, you go for it and I'll be happy to increase your point count and put you outta here for a while. I'm not in a mood to argue with you tonight, and the way I'll save myself that grief is by sending you to Club Gitmo for a brief stay.

I considered handling this privately, but I'm going to do it publicly to serve as a warning to others. While under ordinary circumstances, some of what Gandalf says might be taken with some degree of credibility or assumed to be part of a normal word-of-mouth conversation as he so desperately wants to make a case for here, in his case, it cannot. Gandalf has had some ongoing chronic problems with health-related and medication-related advice here on these forums and has some ongoing personal and potential mental health issues that may not always allow him to see medical situations through a clear perception filter. We caution people very seriously about relying on his posts for reliable medical or pharmaceutical advice and will continue to review his contributions closely after his colorful history here.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

So now it's on-going? I got myself together a while ago, stopped complaining about the pain, stopped having nervous breakdowns for a good two months now at least. But I guess I still deserve scorn even when I do change my ways.

I suppose a ban is in order now. You won't even logically answer my assertions, merely deny them as fallacious without explanation. Questioning does after all deserve punishment.


All my other fellow members, it was good talking with you. I'll miss our discussions in politics, spirituality, and the lounge. Actually I even enjoyed my conversations with you Birdgirl. Too bad things between us aren't working out, submissiveness just isn't my forte.

Goodnight and good toking everybody. Don't let the place fall apart without me ;)

[FakeBoobsRule]

Gandalf, I couldn't help noticing this. What I am confused on is several times you complain that your doctor doesn't give you enough meds to handle your pain but then you blast the doctor of the OP's mother as wanting to give more and more pills. Which is it, complain about not giving enough pills or wanting more and more pills? I'm very confused. I understand that the cases are different, depression versus chronic pain but what gives?

What I would like to know is if the OP's mother receives psychotherapy or not.

Defense mechanisms are a true barrier to recovery.

[Dave Byrd]

Birdgirl's in the other room, Gandalf. Perhaps FBR can serve as referee now.

You're not deserving of scorn and you didn't receive scorn above except through your own perception. She was fairly factual, from what I've seen. Frankly, with your history here and your own medical/personal/emotional history, you DO merit close monitoring. I don't trust you to hand out basic medical, chemical or scientific information because I've seen you get it wrong too frequently. I can easily understand why they follow you more closely than most. Even consider just sticking to politics and the Lounge?

I will laugh for the next five days about the idea of your getting yourself together in a period of two months. You still strongly need evaluation by a mental health professional. You may have been quiet about your somatic complaints for a period of weeks, but that's not the same thing as a cure and I can tell from your reaction above that you've still got a lot of "getting it together" to do. If you had it together, you wouldn't be playing the persecuted martyr role here for everything it's worth.

[TryptamineScape]

-blink- -facepalms-

and no, she doesn't receive psychotherapy, her general physician gives her the anti-depressants. He advertises for a few of the anti-depressant companies. As far as I know he's never even tried to lower doses or see if she could go without them by now. For 14 years he's just been giving her more and more mg of more and more different kinds of anti-depressants. Only one at a time, but it keeps changing when she's on the top mg of a certain one, then they just start over. It feels more like she's an experiement. Thank you all for the replies. I will pretty much take everything into consideration even Gandalf. I appreciate them all. Not sure what happened here, but it was pretty stupid. IMO

[blaze_it]

my grandmother passed away when i was 14 and i started smokin buddah but she had to take like 30 pills a day and doctors only idea to cure problems from other pills are more pills. basically try to get her to ween off some of the pills that shes on. there are also natural herbs that can be smoked to make people calm. i dont think i would give her weed cause its psychoactive and could make things worse. my opinion weed isnt for everybody.

~blaze upon this flamin blunt~:jointsmile:

[TryptamineScape]

-sigh- I just wanna fix everything...I'm too into saving the world and whatnot I guess...