Illusion's grow log #1

[Illusion]

I decided it would be a good idea to document this grow. That way, I can look back on it and see how much I have progressed, and also get help from the local experts along the way! :thumbsup:

This is my very first time with hydroponics.. after countless hours of research I'm still only 90% confident with what im going to be doing.

Two seeds have already sprouted out of the rockwool, 4 Left to emerge. The rockwool was soaked in water with a ph of 5.0-6.0 (I honestly don't know because the PH-Pen needed calibration.)

The two that have already sprouted were placed into the rockwool 3 days or so before the others were planted, and also didn't have light until yesterday. (thats why they are so stretchy).

Im using a single 250w HPS light. It is currently 2.5 feet away from the seedlings (too far? I dont want to kill them with too much light)

I have re-moistened the rockwool yesterday with water with a PH of 5.8, it seemed a bit dry to the touch


QUESTIONS:
1. Rockwool holds a ton of moisture... I don't understand how the roots wont rot when they are in the Ebb and Flow buckets...
Am I supposed to have the water level BELOW the rockwool? Or so it just touches the bottom of the rockwool? Otherwise it i would think it would dry out...

2. Will the nutrients I've chosen (pictures below) okay to use?

[Illusion]

The two sprouts that have emerged are starting to have their roots pop out of the rockwool cube...

I started soaking rockwool blocks in PH 5.5 water..

A few questions I really need to ask before I get started..
I have five gallon buckets, with net pots on the top (pictures below)

I'm not sure if im supposed to fill ONLY the net pots with hydroton, and leave the remainder of the buckets to be filled with nutrient solution (ebb and flow system by the way)

If the net pots were only to be filled with hydroton, then I would think it wouldn't be a wise idea to use the rockwool cubes, as they hold TONS of moisture, and will leave barely any room for hydroton.

But if I understand correctly, if I were to JUST fill the net pots with hydroton, the roots would grow below the netpot into the bucket-- But since this is not DWC, I would think the roots might dry out if there is no growing medium inside... Or would that mean that I would just need more frequent watering schedules? Again... lost with all this moisture the rockwool holds.

help :(

[Illusion]

So does anyone know if I should just fill the net pots with hydroton, or the whole buckets? AND net pots

should I use the rockwool block (3"x3"x4") even if I don't fill the entire bucket, or just stick with the rockwool cube (1.5"x1.5"x1.5")

[Illusion]

I just realized it's quite possible i've been combining DWC and Ebb & Flow..

In Ebb and flow is it possible to have roots suspended in just air?? This is how Ive been planning it...

If I am doing ebb and flow, does that mean that all my roots need to be contained in a growing medium?

The way Ive planned is to have only the net pots filled with clay pebbles... they will then grow down into the buckets- but this is not DWC so the bottom part of the buckets will not always have water in it...

Will the roots dry out if I don't fill the entire buckets with hydroton?

any help is super appreciated!

[Illusion]

I realized I don't have enough hydroton to just use the rockwool cubes alone, so I transplanted the 6 to slabs..

They have all started poking out :)

I am planning on leaving them in the slabs without hydroton until i start flowering them, That way Ill at the most have four females...
I only have enough hydroton to plant four plants...

Hopefully they will not become rootbound in the rockwool in the next 4 to 5 weeks..


Should I just continue to water the rockwool by hand when it appears dry?
No nutrients yet, right?

Should I just put four of the slabs into hydroton in a couple of weeks, and leave two out and hopefully the two that aren't in the hydroton are male and not female?

OR... should I just order more hydroton so that all six can be moved into buckets in a couple of weeks, even if the roots aren't poking out of the slabs?

[Opie Yutts]

You put hydroton in the net pots only. I would cut the rockwool cubes in half roughly. I actually just put my rooted cuttings directly in the hydroton. You want most of your pot to be clay pellets. That would give you rockwool for your other seedlings. You do not want the water to touch the pots, except when the pump is on, which should raise the level enough so that the bottom half of the net pot gets wet. Your roots will be dangling in air to get the maximum oxygen possible, but a few inches of the bottom of the roots should be in water in case your electricity goes out or something. You need to time the pump on times carefully, or make sure there is an overflow. In fact, just make sure there is an overflow. You want as little nutrients as possible to get to the roots believe it or not. In other words you want maximum pump off time. Look around and see what people are doing for ebb and flow, but maybe something like 2 minutes on and 1 hour off.

GH nutrients are good. I use Fox Farm stuff, but both are good. Correct, no nutrients for the first 2 or 3 weeks, depending on how hearty they look.

I would keep an air stone in each bucket, or a big circulation and aeration pump in the reservoir.

[Illusion]

thanks opie for the reply ;]
i will be adding an overflow on the tray, everything seems much easier that way..
And now I definately know i need to order more hydroton.

I'm suprised to find out that it will actually work to have the roots suspended in air.. And really happy too


In addition to the hydroton I will be ordering Super Thrive, Liquid Karma, and Hygrozyme.

It says 500ml of hygrozyme is $18... That seems really expensive..
How long will 500ml of hygrozyme for a 50gal reservoir last? The 1L is $30

[Illusion]

Ended up going with hydroguard instead of hygrozyme... because it was much cheaper. I'm sure it will do the same job.

After stopping at the hardware store, I picked up the rest of what I needed plus a few extra lights.. four 32w 48" fluorescent tubes. Total of 11200 extra lumens ;].

The bulbs are 5100k spectrum... Which is this again? Flowering or Vegetative?

I'm hoping that I'm not giving them too much light right now between those and the hps light (which is 24" away from the seedlings)- but they seemed like they have been stretching so probably not.


I really do think I should cut the rockwool cubes in half... But I'm afraid that the roots have already grown way down.

Am I definitely going to have problems with the rockwool if I use slabs that big?

I wouldn't have used rockwool if I had done just a wee bit more research prior to using it.. Ill end up learning the hard way I guess.

[Opie Yutts]

5100K is more bluish and a great choice for vegging, but it is best if you can have a little blue in while flowering too.

And I hate rockwool, though many people use it. It holds way too much moisture. Never had much luck with it.

[Illusion]

5100K is more bluish and a great choice for vegging, but it is best if you can have a little blue in while flowering too.

And I hate rockwool, though many people use it. It holds way too much moisture. Never had much luck with it.


I noticed how it holds so much moisture... I took the plastic wrapping off of it, and the next morning it was Completely dried out and the babies looked sad like they were thirsty.

I'm not really too concerned with the moisture problem, I figure that when I have the ebb and flow set up, Ill just make sure that the maximum level doesnt touch to rockwool, and always make sure I water it by hand... or just make sure that at least one of the cycles during the day touches the rockwool..

That shit does stay moist and I dont think it would be a wise idea to flood it entirely more than once over the course of 24 hours.



Considering that I only soaked the rockwool blocks for 24 hours (5.5 ph blah)... Do you think I will be able to correct any potential problems? I just want them to stay alive.


thanks for the reply

[Opie Yutts]

Soaking rw for 24 hr. is fine. That's what you're supposed to do. I think you've got the right idea about the rockwool. If you do soak it completely, make sure it is only once per day. You will not need to do it at all once the roots are in the solution.

[Illusion]

Well, I'm not too thrilled with the growth. Kind of discouraging. Really am figuring out that rockwool is very finicky, and not easy for beginners. I guess I've been keeping it too wet.

IT SMELLS LIKE MOLDY SOCKS / ROTTEN MILK ON THE BOTTOM

yuck... I don't know if this is normal? Luckily it only smells when i put my nose next to it.. (don't ask me why i sniffed it in the first place...)

One of the plants seems to be a goner... It got too dry from me taking the plastic liner off the slabs and leaving it overnight... I re-moistened the slabs and the rest of the plants perked back up, but this one didn't seem to make it.



I guess I'm basically just hoping the roots will eventually pop out of the rockwool? I am now thinking of the rockwool slabs as wet little coffins of death that they need break out of in order to survive.


Does the growth seem slow for the two, and should I kill the other ones that aren't growing as fast and germinate more seeds?


:(

[Opie Yutts]

I would not have individual coffins of death. If they are sealed up in one container I would tear open the bottom, and maybe once every other day add roughly 1/4" of water on the bottom of the tray. If they have been completely soaked for awhile, I would get out any water you can and get a fan on them to help dry things a little. The point is you should be keeping them moist, not wet. Rockwool doesn't make that easy. That one definitely looks like a goner, so you could yank it, divide the slab into 3 or so sections and try some more seeds. And no, I wouldn't kill anything that's not dead yet. There's still a chance.

Welcome to the wonderful fucked up world of using rockwool.

[dejayou30]

Your plants look like they are stretching a lot, so you should think about moving your light closer. Otherwise, they could stretch too far and topple and never recover. I had to keep my lights within 1-2 inches or they would stretch for the light like mad, so 24" is probably too far away. I used CFLs and not HPS though, so you probably won't be able to get the HID that close to the plant without getting them too hot.

Hydroguard and Hygrozyme are pretty different. Hydroguard is basically just bacteria that helps with fungus and algae. Hygrozyme is a supplement kind of thing that will help your plants, hence the higher price. I just started using the Hygrozyme since I started flowing a week ago, so I think its too early to say if its worth it. Just make sure you don't use any H2O2 with the Hydroguard or it will kill all the Hydroguard and really gunk things up fast.

As far as your methods, I'm not quite sure I understand what you're doing with the rockwool and keeping it out of your E&F system. I am on my first grow and I'm also using E&F, but I just put the cracked seeds directly into rockwool cubes that were in the system surrounded by hydroton and I watered every 6 hours and 7/9 of my seedlings sprouted and grew very nicely. The other two I suspect that I damaged the taproot because one I dropped into the hydroton and had to dig out and one slipped in upside down and I couldn't flip it around. So my success rate with my method was essentially 100%. I dunno about the smells; mine never smelled like that, but just make sure and watch for signs of mold or fungus if you are getting funky smells. Keeping your res temp low (around 70) helps protect from that too.

I would suggest filling the net pots with hydroton enough that the rockwool will sit down in the net pot and not go over the top, and then fill in hydroton around it. Water every 6 hours for 15 minutes. Also remember to take the plastic off the rockwool before putting them into the system, or at least I do.

That is what has worked for me so far, but the thing is finding a method that works for you and sticking to it. Your plants that are doing well look just fine for being one week old other than the stretching. Unfortunately, cannabis grows slower than paint dries, and growing a plant from start to finish will take a few months. Just make sure you don't get too impatient and overfeed or do other things trying to make the plant grow faster because you expect it to grow like a weed. :) Take your time, be patient, pay attention to small details and you will hopefully have an awesome end product. Good luck! :thumbsup:

[iniganja]

hey man im in the early stages of this same setup. keep us posted!

[Opie Yutts]

dejayou30 speaks with words of iron.

[Illusion]

Your plants look like they are stretching a lot, so you should think about moving your light closer. Otherwise, they could stretch too far and topple and never recover. I had to keep my lights within 1-2 inches or they would stretch for the light like mad, so 24" is probably too far away. I used CFLs and not HPS though, so you probably won't be able to get the HID that close to the plant without getting them too hot.

Hydroguard and Hygrozyme are pretty different. Hydroguard is basically just bacteria that helps with fungus and algae. Hygrozyme is a supplement kind of thing that will help your plants, hence the higher price. I just started using the Hygrozyme since I started flowing a week ago, so I think its too early to say if its worth it. Just make sure you don't use any H2O2 with the Hydroguard or it will kill all the Hydroguard and really gunk things up fast.

As far as your methods, I'm not quite sure I understand what you're doing with the rockwool and keeping it out of your E&F system. I am on my first grow and I'm also using E&F, but I just put the cracked seeds directly into rockwool cubes that were in the system surrounded by hydroton and I watered every 6 hours and 7/9 of my seedlings sprouted and grew very nicely. The other two I suspect that I damaged the taproot because one I dropped into the hydroton and had to dig out and one slipped in upside down and I couldn't flip it around. So my success rate with my method was essentially 100%. I dunno about the smells; mine never smelled like that, but just make sure and watch for signs of mold or fungus if you are getting funky smells. Keeping your res temp low (around 70) helps protect from that too.

I would suggest filling the net pots with hydroton enough that the rockwool will sit down in the net pot and not go over the top, and then fill in hydroton around it. Water every 6 hours for 15 minutes. Also remember to take the plastic off the rockwool before putting them into the system, or at least I do.

That is what has worked for me so far, but the thing is finding a method that works for you and sticking to it. Your plants that are doing well look just fine for being one week old other than the stretching. Unfortunately, cannabis grows slower than paint dries, and growing a plant from start to finish will take a few months. Just make sure you don't get too impatient and overfeed or do other things trying to make the plant grow faster because you expect it to grow like a weed. :) Take your time, be patient, pay attention to small details and you will hopefully have an awesome end product. Good luck! :thumbsup:


dejayou thank you !!!!

I didn't think that I needed to have my rockwool in the system until it needed nutrients. I dont get this rockwool stuff. If I'm supposed to have it moist, not too wet, not too dry...

If I water the rockwool every 6 hours, is the reason why its not too wet because I take the plastic off, and because its sorrounded by clay pebbles?

I've been watering them not that much at all, just once every couple days and they seem to stay completely *drenched*...

When you say water every six hours, did you mean run my pump to flood the buckets every six hours? and if so, should the flood rise level touch the rockwool, or only the hydroton?

And if you water by hand every six hours, it is safe to assume there is a good amount of run off, right? and would that mean the rockwool is 100% saturated every six hours?

Thanks for the reply, needed it :D





Welcome to the wonderful fucked up world of using rockwool.

hahahahahahhaha

[socialistpete]

I also had to learn the hard way about rockwool. But seeing it first hand rather than having someone tell you about it makes you a better grower. experiencing something is always better than reading about it. And think about it this way after a couple more grows you'll be on here answering questions you were asking.:)

[Illusion]

Well this certainly doesn't look good.

It looks like big bertha has a case of PH Lockout! (My guess.. not sure however)

Again, I presoaked both the cubes and the slab in water with a PH of 5.5 for over 24 hours..

I have been watering the slabs every couple of days when they dry out with water @ PH 5.8


The rockwool slabs are on their own, not in any system..

(still confused about watering every 6 hours)


Heres some pics of Big Bertha... Whats wrong with her!!!?!?!

[Opie Yutts]

Just so I don't have to read back over everything you wrote, are you giving them anything to eat? They should have no nutrients at this point. The only thing you should be giving them at this point is a little B1, preferably SuperThrive, to help with shock and root development. Those pictures are blurry, but it looks like a nutrient problem, probably some kind of burn. You get burns when you feed too much. Also perhaps it is heat stress. How close are your lights? Should be at least a foot back at this point with fluoros, and gradually move closer over about 2 or 3 weeks.

Watering every 6 hours is just a guess for your setup, and it refers to when everything is set up and going, not now. A few times per day you should flood your net pots about half way up, but don't flood the rockwool. It will stay plenty wet on it's own.

Keep PH of everything about 5.5.

[Illusion]

No nutrients, using bottled water, sometimes RO bottled water, no superthrive or cal-mag

I guess it could be heat stress, the floros are about 6" away.. but the other one that is the same size looks perfectly fine. Sorry about the blurry picture.

So i put the cubes in my system, flood the pots half way.. then eventually the roots will grow down to the part that will reach the water? that means there will be like 6" of space that will never have water (which means those roots will never have water in those 6") below the rockwool right? which would mean i should water the rockwool by hand every few days, even when its in the system?

or what do you mean by watering every six hours once its in my system? the rockwool? sorry for being so slow hah..

[Opie Yutts]

Do not water the rockwool. Just increase the level of water in the bucket until it soaks about half the net pot, not the rockwool. This is assuming that you put the girls in when the roots reach at least half way down the inside of the pot, so they will get wet during flooding. This needs to happen. Make it so. Once you see roots start to come out of the rockwool, or the girls are looking nice and healthy, that's the time to put them in hydroton and start feeding at 1/4 strength. The roots in air will get what they need through the few inches of water covering the bottom of them, and when you flood them. Roots need oxygen. As much as possible. Obviously if you plan on having the bottom of the roots in solution as I suggested, you will need to have some way of varying the solution level. If not, flood more frequently.

I don't know what to tell you about big bertha. If the light is 6" back it's probably not heat stress, but some chemical thing. I do know that when plants are chemically stressed, they can't take as much light. Perhaps you should check the problem charts I and others have posted. Sorry I can't be more help.

[Opie Yutts]

Oh yeah, the paper comes off at some point before putting the rockwool in hydroton.

[Illusion]

Actually that was extremely helpful

My only concern is the duration of time where the roots aren't long enough to reach the flood level, and are just in hydroton that is never flooded.

Incase you haven't noticed I like to be triple sure of things, apologies in advance but:

This means I do not put my rockwool slabs into the system until the roots are long enough to reach the solution... What do I do with the slabs while the roots are growing out of the bottom? Is it Okay in a glass tray?

If I feed them at 1/4 strength solution, But it doesn't touch the roots poking out of the rockwool, only half of my net pot, will the water Wick up through the bottom or something?

again apologies.. I'm annoying *myself* with the same questions over and over, so I could only imagine how you feel!

also how to I go about testing the PH of the rockwool itself? Collect the runoff I know, But how do I collect the runoff?

[Illusion]

i just realized that when i've been watering the rockwool, i've been pouring the water on the top...

I tried watering them by dipping the bottoms in water this time.. is this how i should have been doing it all along? :stoned:

[dejayou30]

I don't hand water anything. The point of hydroponics is that the water and all the nutrients that that the plant needs are brought directly to them, therefore eliminating the need to water by hand.

Before I started trying to grow anything, I got the room completely set up, lights on, water flowing, etc. and ran everything for a while to make sure there were no leaks, check temps, etc. Then, I conditioned the medium (hydroton and rockwool) by soaking them in separate buckets of 5.5 water for a day, changing the water every few hours and monitoring the pH. Then, I moved the conditioned medium into the system and ran the system with the media in it, but still didn't crack the seeds. I did that for about 12 hours and checked the pH every so often, and THEN I cracked the seeds. By doing this I was able to troubleshoot a lot of problems that could have arisen before the plants would have to deal with them and suffer, and I was also able to provide headaches to PharmaCan, Opie, and Weedhound. :D

Once I cracked the seeds, I just dropped them into the rockwool, tucked them in, set the pump timer, and let them grow. I flooded the entire bin (about 90-95% full) for 15 minutes every 6 hours. The rockwool got wet but not submerged and probably stayed wet, but it wasn't too wet and it has worked out for going on 7 weeks now.

I think you are just thinking about things too hard. Your posts seem pretty frantic like you are just kind of going for it, which is a bad idea when it comes to growing your own cannabis. I would suggest taking some time, get your room and materials set up 100%, and THEN go start the seeds, or start them when you are pretty close if you absolutely can't wait. Maybe I am just OCD, but it seems to have worked pretty well for me. Good luck!


PS> This is my first grow too, so I'm not an expert by any means, but most of what I have learned, I learned within the first couple weeks. The system just kind of goes on autopilot from then on, you only have to monitor regularly.

[Opie Yutts]

Hydrponics Techniques (http://www.aquamist.com/hydroponics/)

Take look at these illustrations to help you get an idea of how things are set up and what they do. Which one of these are you trying to do?

[Opie Yutts]

i just realized that when i've been watering the rockwool, i've been pouring the water on the top...

I tried watering them by dipping the bottoms in water this time.. is this how i should have been doing it all along? :stoned:

Well I thought I've been answering your questions. Remember when I wrote this?
I would not have individual coffins of death. If they are sealed up in one container I would tear open the bottom, and maybe once every other day add roughly 1/4" of water on the bottom of the tray.

Are you reading the stuff I write? What's with the dipping? What's with the watering on top? If you don't want to take my advice that's just fine and dandy with me. I completely understand. Just don't ask me the same thing again when your way doesn't work out.

Again, the rockwool cubes should be in a tray. In this tray you put about 1/8 to 1/4" of water that is PH'd to 5.5. In one or two days, or however long it is until the bottom of the tray is dry, then do it again. Repeat as necessary. Once roots are long enough that at least some of them will get wet when the system is flooded, then you put them into your system. Flood as necessary, but as little as possible to keep the plant from being under watered.

[Illusion]

Well I thought I've been answering your questions. Remember when I wrote this?
I would not have individual coffins of death. If they are sealed up in one container I would tear open the bottom, and maybe once every other day add roughly 1/4" of water on the bottom of the tray.

Are you reading the stuff I write? What's with the dipping? What's with the watering on top? If you don't want to take my advice that's just fine and dandy with me. I completely understand. Just don't ask me the same thing again when your way doesn't work out.

Again, the rockwool cubes should be in a tray. In this tray you put about 1/8 to 1/4" of water that is PH'd to 5.5. In one or two days, or however long it is until the bottom of the tray is dry, then do it again. Repeat as necessary. Once roots are long enough that at least some of them will get wet when the system is flooded, then you put them into your system. Flood as necessary, but as little as possible to keep the plant from being under watered.


Ive been doing so much reading over the past few days I guess it all got jumbled up in my head..
If i had remembered, I wouldn't have asked :( sorry about that

makes more sense to me now

thank you for all of your help :)

btw, im doing the EFT listed on the site, but not all the roots will be in hydroton.