day one

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

High people,

OK to start off I have just placed my White Widow seeds in paper towels and moistend. This is my first grow using this box below and seeds from a bank, and I am looking foward to this experiance.

I have done my reserch and this is the set up. I have made a grow box out of white panel boards and 2x4s. size 4'x4' x 7 feet high total 16 sq ft. Inside of this I have a 600w digital ballast that will take mh and hps bulbs. I sealed all cracks with aluminum tape. I made 4 vent holes 2 on top 2 on bottom. Then atached aluminum dryer hose that I painted flat black inside. I then made 2- 90 deg bends in the tubing and nearly 0 light excapes from this box. I then mounted a box fan at a 45 deg angle from the ceiling after all said and done $550 total cost including seeds.

I am starting of with 10 white widow seeds and 5 mystery seeds that came with the ww seeds. I got them from amsterdamnseeds.com
Has any one bought seeds from them? I am wondering about the MYSTERY SEEDS anyone tried them before? and what did you get?

I started this thread to give progress reports and any advice.

[Earthy Dank]

Sounds good... What kinda of fan are you using for ventilation? You are gonna need a good inline fan to keep up with the heat from the HPS. Try to keep the temps down around 75-80. It sounds like you are off the a great start. I want one of those ballast... They are more efficent and can also use a Metal halide... They arent that expensive either.. Is there anyway you could get some pictures?

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

thought of that with the fan and did a dry run for 24 hours with a recordable t-stat and physics did its work, at plant level it never went above 80F. This was with mh only you might be right with the hps bulb though. If I do need an in line I can one easily put one in.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

to add to this I am thiking of doing the brewers yeast trick to suppliment co2 duing the vegitive growth cycle and an inline fan would defeat this trick.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Day 4

Ok off to a good start. I have 100% germination at this point. the mystery seeds only took 24 hours to germinate and the whitewidow seeds took 32 to 48 hours to germinate. I think heat had something to do with it, I put them in a cabinet to start but it was not warm enough so I placed them on top of my cable box and presto 12 hours later they all had little white fingers comming out.

I then placed them in miracal grow potting soil and this moning I have one spout up and waiting for the others to come along. They should all be up within 24 hours.

Also you were right about the exaust fan. I had a hell of a time trying to get the temp under control. Finally I had to put 4 inch axil fans on all 4 supply and exaust vents and got the temp down to a managable 85F, it was going up to 97F at one point. Glad I caught this befoe I did any damage. Thank god for remote thermometers. I highly recomend one of these so you can moniter your grow box at all times without opening the door.
thats it for now.

[Earthy Dank]

to add to this I am thiking of doing the brewers yeast trick to suppliment co2 duing the vegitive growth cycle and an inline fan would defeat this trick.

The plants won't really need any extra Co2 until they are flowering. But it won't hurt... And a good tip is to use alot of sugar... The more sugar you can use the longer/more the yeast will make little bubbles. Yeast and sugar water is a good alternative to expensive CO2 generators and it has the added benefit of making high proof alcohol. :cool:

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Really,

I will take your word on that co2 is for flowering, I was under the impression it was more for Vegitive stage. The reason I say that is I would think you want the explosive growth in the vegitive stage to get the plant as big and healthy as possiable before flowering. Correct me if I am wrong please.

You might say I am doing this sog style but my intention is to veg untill 2/3 of growspace is full then induce flowering, also I read somewhere where you can sex a plant during week 2 of veg switch to 18/6 for 2 to 3 days then carfully inspect each plant for sex and eliminate the males then go back to 24/7 the rest of the veg stage. Is this true and do you recomend this.

my ultimate goal here is to get max out of each plant and space, time is not a factor.

[pastetea]

Hey,

What's the Brewers Yeast Trick?

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

ok, I am going to do my best to explain this.

The brewers yeast trick is done by getting a gallon jug, make a water sugar solution using as much sugar as possiable that you can disolve in water and have it remain clear to slightly cloudy. leaving the jug 3/4 full, you then add brewers yeast to this mixture and place it in your grow room and leave it, within 24 hours you will see tiny bubbles forming and rising to the top, these bubbles are pure CO2 and is a byproduct of the yeast converting the sugar to alcohol. ( this is how rum is made) depending on sugar content this will continue for up to 30 days. Oh yeh do not put a lid on the jug or it will explode due to presure buildup.

If you place 1 to 4 of these in your grow room and it is fairly sealed it will feed CO2 to your plants 24/7 for up to 30 days or when you no longer see any bubbles, the peoblem is if your ventilation system has a high rate of CFM to pull out the heat in your grow room you are pulling the CO2 out before your plants can absorb it. This really works great in flowering when you go to dark and you can shutdown the exauhst fans due to you do not need them for climate control. You will need to keep your circulation fan running due to CO2 is a heavy gas and will accumulate on the floor of your grow room if no fan is running.

This is a very cheap and effective way to suppliment the CO2 to your plants.

[Earthy Dank]

Really,

I will take your word on that co2 is for flowering, I was under the impression it was more for Vegitive stage. The reason I say that is I would think you want the explosive growth in the vegitive stage to get the plant as big and healthy as possiable before flowering. Correct me if I am wrong please.

You might say I am doing this sog style but my intention is to veg untill 2/3 of growspace is full then induce flowering, also I read somewhere where you can sex a plant during week 2 of veg switch to 18/6 for 2 to 3 days then carfully inspect each plant for sex and eliminate the males then go back to 24/7 the rest of the veg stage. Is this true and do you recomend this.

my ultimate goal here is to get max out of each plant and space, time is not a factor.

You are actually right. The plant uses CO2 for both stages, veg and flowering. But they use alot more in the flowering phase when they start exploding with buds. Typically the ambient air flowing around your house has 200 -300ppm of co2. Which is plenty of vegetating plants. But if you grow in a cabinet or a smaller space.. that level would be much lower.

As for growing space... I don't think it would be a good idea to use 2/3 of you growing space. Plants stretch alot during the first 3 weeks of flowering. Some times (especially for SOG plants) they stretch three or even four times their height depending on their genetics. So I would suggest if you have 4 feet to work with... flower them when they are about 8" tall and you will have plenty of room. It sucks when you flower them and they are too big and the grow all the way up to the lights and get burned. As for sexing the plants ... don't worry about it... They will show sex when they are ready. They usually show sex for me right as i put them into flowering. If you do anything... I would just give it a mild dose of some bloom nitrients. The Extra P-K will help the little pre-flowers grow alittle bit so you can recognize it.

B.T.W Good job explaining the Sugar-water method. You know... After you have used up all the sugar in your jugs... All thats left is pure alcohol and water... All you have to do is distill it...:thumbsup:;):)

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Earthydank,

Thank you for that info, so in a nut shell you are saying wait till 4th or 5 set of nodes then Start flowering cycle.

[Earthy Dank]

actually... i just read.. this...

"Some growers add C02 to their grow rooms to increase growth rate. This has proved itself to be effective in many experiments. C02 supplementation also helps the plants withstand higher temperatures of up to 95 degrees without slowing down growth. There have been complaints however, that C02 supplementation during flowering reduces potency. Therefore, C02 should be stopped when the lights are turned to 12/12."

[Earthy Dank]

Earthydank,

Thank you for that info, so in a nut shell you are saying wait till 4th or 5 set of nodes then Start flowering cycle.

Yeah that sounds about right. It really kinda depends on how many plants you have and how much grow room you have to work with. A typical indoor plant thats flowered at around say... 6 inches can easily grow to be 1.5 to 2.5 feet tall. Keeping them small seems to make it easier to keep the canopy nice and even. Which is important in sea of green growing.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Day 14,

I just transplanted to final pots Wednesday and still have 15 very healthy plants, they are all currently sprouting there 5th set of leaves, they are all between 3" to 4" high by 4" to 5" wide, look like little bushes. I have them growing under 24/7 light. Used 12/30/12 nutes at transplant to help with shock and promote root growth ( never saw any indications of of stress after transplant).

Should I switch to High Nitrogen next watering? I did record 1" growth since Wednesday. Temps are running between 80F to 72F with humidity pretty much constant 35%.

Everything going very well.

[privatepile]

Any chance of a pic?

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Sorry, no digital camera yet, my money went into this settup.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

I do have one plant that is kind of weird. I think it is a genetic problem.
The way the leafs are coming out is one per node. Meaning one leaf on one side then the next comes out futher up on opposite side.
it is not a problem just strange. I have never seen this before. It is also the runt of the litter.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

finally got some pictures for you. taken with cell phone don't know how they will come out.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

wtf am I doing wrong no pics showed up.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

try again

[pccdrom]

very nice set up. will give your brewers yeast trick a go, sounds good.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Thank you,

I haven't started it yet. I decided to wait till the flowering cycle to do it.

[pccdrom]

im 2 weeks into flower, (cheese) 1 hps 600w, 2 plants. gonna wait till end of 3rd week (pay day) before giving brewers yeast a go. set up not as advanced as urs but similar

[blink_inc]

move the light closer...

Have you read up on molasses...

[erock0609]

Wonderful set up! :thumbsup:

e

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

its a 600w mh right now I read to keep min of 20" from plants it is at 23" won't go much lower is on spring lift and hold mounts.
Those pics are over a week older now and they look a lot more like hedge's in a bucket , I am doing LST.
I am getting 2 new nodes every day almost with them going to the light and the stem growing horizontal around the bucket

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Here are some recent pics.

I just completed the last LST before flowering, I plan on changing to flowering cycle this weekend.
Or should I wait and do more LST?

[blink_inc]

the more you tie the more tops you get.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

so you think I still have room?

[blink_inc]

Lots.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

How much longer? I do have to keep in mind an average of 50% loss to males. Friday will be the start of week for 4 these babies and the are growing like crazy right now.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Day 26.

Went to go check my babies today thinking it was just going to be a 5 minute visit. WRONG! They grew so damn much I had to do another 45 minute round of LST and pruning

I do think they will be ready to flower this weekend.

Any opinions?

[blink_inc]

sir, you have tons of height to work with from what it looks like in your pics. You can veg them for a lot longer. What is their height? Are those 5 gallon pails?how far above the top of the plant is the light?Temps?

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

To start with they are in 2.5 gallon buckets in a 4'x4' room, the canopy is currently 6".

Growing space left is 36" to 40" hight wise, temps are running at 70 to 75 degrees at 36" up in box, light is currently at 23" above the canopy for radiated heat reasons and even light distibution over canopy.

After writing this I am starting to see your point. I have a hell of a lot of room!
I am just worried because everything I read says 4 week veg. cycles.

[blink_inc]

You are 4 weeks from germination......not 4 weeks veg.
You could easily go for another 4 weeks of veg from what it looks like to me.

Hold your hand under the light. how close can you get before it is too hot when held there? If possible move your light almost that close to the plant to ensure tight internodes.

Wait five days and see where growth is before tying or bending again. Get an idea of the best direction to tie.

To give you an idea, I have had a plant (Mother) in veg for nearly 4 months and still continue to train the plants growth. It is only 16" tall but 12" round.

Keep the lights on a consistent cycle, water regularily and keep the temps manageable and you can veg as long as you want.

Hope that helps. BTW, you could take a clipping off each in 2 weeks and sex the plants that way rather than going 12/12 and reverting back which could take 2-3 weeks to get back to veg.

Anyway, have fun.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Blink,

So where I am going wrong is thinking that the veg cycle starts at germination, when actually it starts 1 to 2 weeks after germination or when first 5 finger leaves are grown. Correct?

Then I am also performing LST to often, you say let them grow 3 to 4 days between LST.

You are also saying to let them veg untill it is truely a Sea Of Green horizontaly, meaning I have no more horizontal space to grow in, then switch to flowering cycle and then just let them go vertically no LST. Oh yah, after I have determined the sex of each plant.

Looks like I have about 2 weeks of veg to go. One minor problem I have is I cannot afford to get the supplies needed to start cloning untill the end of next week. So can you still sex by taking a cutting and placing in water and say a very minimal dose of 12/30/12 nutes, then put them under a CFL set at 12/12. Reason is I want to get the males out ASAP.

One more question about prunning. I have been prunning any leaf that is preventing light from getting to the nodes below. This seems to be working very well due to, the very next day that node has grown and filled the space that the leaf was in. I do not remove any leaf that is not blocking anything except only if it is pushed down into the soil after LST. Is this the correct way? or is there a better way?

You are great help Blink TYVM

[blink_inc]

you are doing fine i'd say.
rather than pruning the leaves the can be bent and tied as well. move them out of the way. the leaves are important for photosynthesis to occur.

Wait the week before cloning. make sure you have more than 5 internodes. If they are alternating then it has reached maturity and will show sign of sex.

[spongebobsmokepants]

clones @18/6 or 24 they need to stay in veg state.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Great Info thanks,

As for prunning I am only removing the fan leafs that are over the center and have nowhere to go, It does not seem to be stressing them, like I said when I remove them, the next day the node has started to become a shoot producing 2 leaves in is place, I do not remove the leaves on the edges, most of the buckets are becomming full except for 3 that started out as being runts in the first place they are half full,

I did move the light down about 8" with the fan running and the light felt fine on the back of my hand.

Oh by the way I did get a 175W MH light from someone that did not need it anymore. I am going to put that to good use for my clone/mother box, but in the meantime it is going in the main grow room today.

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Looked good all growing well.

I did get a 175 watt MH from a friend yesterday and I installed it today
MORE LUMENS!!! Another 15,000 added for a total of 81,000 lumens of MH lighting. So far temps are good at 72 F.

Now I need some oppinons here.
I am thinking of leaving the 175 MH in the box during flowering for the blue light. and still build a clone box using T5's.

Or should I build the cloan box around the 175.

So what you think?

[Earthy Dank]

Looked good all growing well.

I did get a 175 watt MH from a friend yesterday and I installed it today
MORE LUMENS!!! Another 15,000 added for a total of 81,000 lumens of MH lighting. So far temps are good at 72 F.

Now I need some oppinons here.
I am thinking of leaving the 175 MH in the box during flowering for the blue light. and still build a clone box using T5's.

Or should I build the cloan box around the 175.

So what you think?

A clone box for rooting clones? or vegging them? I think it would be perfect for vegging like 4- 10 clones. Its alittle strong to just be rooting clones. YOu could prabably do both though.