rockwool or other?

[pudder]

I havnt seen anything else about this or maybe I wasn't looking in the right places.

is there anything else that can be used instead of rockwool. I have to order rockwool and have other stuff availible in my area. I have everything else set up and ready to go but need either rockwool or another medium. anything else that I can use with ok results?

thanks Pudder

[Illusion]

i have the same issue right now... rockwool is currently being shipped...
if you cant purchase rockwool locally-- im taking it you probably wont be able to purchase anything else... like rapid rooters or oasis cubes..

I have read things about PH problems with rockwool and it might be a better idea to use the rapid rooters/oasis cubes... But i've already ordered my rockwool so... thats what im using and hopefully you can feel comfortable in using it too :-D

we should keep eachother updated on questions, it sounds like we are pretty tied as far as our grow set up and knowledge obtained...

hope that slightly helps! :thumbsup:

[pudder]

yeah souns like we are on the same page and problem. I already have 10 plants n soil and made room in another room for 6 plants hrew hydroponics. just need rockwool or something else. let me know how things turn out.

for anyone else reading this. what else can be used. even something makeshift like other things besides group cubes or the stuff that was previously mentioned.

[Illusion]

I heard styrofoam can be used... Thats pretty easily obtainable.. I dont know what PH problems would come along with it though... Im planning on doing about 6 plants hydroponically...

Pudder, what kind of light are you using? HPS? whats the wattage? Just curious...

[pudder]

yeah that may work. never though of that hold water and is pourous depending on mak and brand. get the large ball foam which has holds and shit all threw it for the roots to grow.

any other ideas? trying to get as many as possible so I know what the options are ya know.

[Illusion]

Okay so ive read about styrofoam

You basically cut out room for your transplants, and the styrofoam will float..
So you want to cut out a circular disk that will fit the 5 gallon bucket...

When the water level drops, the styrofoam will drop too, and when it rises the plant will rise...

I think that's a pretty flawed system though.. And personally if I were you, I would seriously just wait however long it takes to get your rockwool and hydroton (expanded clay pebbles).... I'm absolutely positive it will be worth the wait in the end...

[xcrispi]

To start / germ beans in like starter cubes ? Or as an actual medium to fill the entire system with ?

What type of system are we talking about ?

Rockwool stays way too wet in my opinion if used exclusively / by itself as a medium , not to mention crazy p/h issues w/ it even when it's pre soaked prior to use . I like hydroton = kiln fired clay balls = coo-coo puffs . You can wash and reuse them over -n- over too.

We need more info.
Peace
Crispi :stoned:

[pudder]

oh and about the light I bought 1 400 watt hps with lamp setup and ballast got it for 40 bucks off a friend. needs new bulb though which I am getting tonight after work. my other setup I just have 3 cfls total of around 50 watts.

[Illusion]

Yeah I only have a 1x250 watt HPS.... Im broke and have to make it work with 6 plants (I know that about impossible) CFL Supplement lighting for me, eh?

xcrispi- Do you exclusively grow in hydroton- What to you start the seedlings in/germ them in?

more info, like crispi said

[pudder]

well. I was thinking of bubbler system with the baskets and such. I have seen the coo-coo puffs before but I have seen people place the rockwool in the center after the roots have shown threw. this is what I planned on doing. new to growing so getting as much info and trying others setups this is pretty much what I am doing.

[stinkyattic]

If you were just going to use the RW as plugs, you can try rapidrooters instead. Those work better to start clones and even seeds IMHO.

[hbbusa28]

Got to be honest guys. I've been through 3-4 grows with rockwool and I'm starting my 5th. Not an expert by any means, but I have not had many problems. It is true that the Rockwool PH moves around a bit. Espeally the later you get in the grow. But it is not hard to control. Just messsure your run off, and make sure it is balanced with your res. Doesn't take long. I think I need to adjust my PH once every other day in the early delvelopment but more like twice a day in later stages. Could be a pain, but Rockwool has been good to me.

Just keep your eye on it.

[Illusion]

hbbusa, the PH of the rockwool shifts around... does this change the reservoir PH? or what do you mean... How can you test the PH of the rockwool itself.. forgive my newbie question :D

what do you mean measure the run-off?

[xcrispi]

Yeah I only have a 1x250 watt HPS.... Im broke and have to make it work with 6 plants (I know that about impossible) CFL Supplement lighting for me, eh?

xcrispi- Do you exclusively grow in hydroton- What to you start the seedlings in/germ them in?

more info, like crispi said

Hey Ill.
I start beans in 2 in. rockwool starter cubes - the ones w/o a wrapper around them . Or I recently tried rapid rooters but didn't have as much luck w/ them. <- = my fault for keepin em too wet - they hold shitloads of water . :D

Once theres enought roots popin outa the cube to make me happy they go in hydroton . I can run drippers 24/7 and not overwater w/ hydroton .
Peace
Crispi :stoned:

[hbbusa28]

Well I just realized that you weren't growing fully in Rockwool like I do. But to answer your question, I start my seeds in 1" rockwool cubes. Once roots start to fully come out of the bottom, I switch them to 6" rockwool cubes and add my drippers.

I have a 8 gallon bucket that I use as my main res that feeds my 6" cubes. WHen I check the PH of my res I will also take a sample of the water that is exiting 6" cubes. It's easy for the way my set up is. The 6" cubes sit on top of a 6" x 36" tray. The drippers feed the rockwool. The execess water comes out of the bottom of the rockwool and runs down the tray to exit pipes that lead back to the res.

So I take a sample of this exit run off water. Depending on the lifestage and what I'm feeding the run off can be off as much as .2 for every feeding. This seems like a lot and it is. But I run my drippers 15min for every 3 hours. So after 3 feedings or so I will adjust the PH of the Res (by this time it has also dropped) back to 5.8-5.9. The 15min that the drippers run easily bring the run off of the Rockwool back up to the correct PH.

In a nut shell, the PH of my rockwool starts at 5.8-5.9 and throughout the day drops to 5.2-5.3. Then I reset by uping the PH of the res and it starts over. I have not had any PH related problems as of yet. I know a lot of people do not like Rockwool saying it gets too wet and promotes root rot. I have never noticed this. Rockwool holds a lot of O2. Yes it stays moist, but this hasn't been a problem for me.

[pudder]

what I think my original question was what can be used like rockwool? like something I know that the hardwar store or a local nusrymay have. ya know something like these conersial products that would be able o start seeds and sustain seedlings? this is what my original question was. like someone saying styrofoam. can seeds be started in porous foam. this is what the acual question was. because I am ready and waiting but have no grow medium besides soil and I don't think soil works in a soilless gow. ow bout something like perlite and burlap or something like that. I have but loads of perlite and vermiculie and about 10 untreated burlap bags. just trying o find things that I may already have around or may work like something else to save on shipping. like I said in a previous post I am allset p and ready to go just need something for a medium.

pudder

[stinkyattic]

Perlite or vermiculite are commonly used in commercial hydroponic veggie production. They clog pumps and drip lines more easily than RW or Hydroton, but are perfectly usable with proper filtration, or in a drip-to-waste.

[Max Blast]

I have used Perlite and Vermiculite and had success with them. Seeds start well in Vermiculite.

Probably best as a mix of about 1/2 and 1/2 each. Readily available in large quantities from your local Nursery supply and does not attract attention. (used for flower beds by regular gardeners)

regards,
Max Blast

[pudder]

I have good amounts of both of these from when I was growing shrooms so I will try this and see what happens I have much more perlite then vermiculite. so do you think perlite would work on its own or no.

[Illusion]

part of enjoying the fruits of your labor is the time thats invested into it....

Honestly I think if you were to order rockwool/hydroton -- It would arrive MAX five days (assuming you live in the continental U.S.)... Delaying your grow for 5 days will be worth it in the end...

I am literally in the same boat you are... I have everything besides my Rockwool and Hydroton, which should arrive in the mail tomorrow.. been waiting 3 or 4 days

I had read things about other mediums used in hydroponic setups... but the problems that come along with it were not worth the 5 day head start...

hope this helps :stoned:

[pudder]

Well see the main problem is this......I don't have a credit card or debit card to order with. Nor have I found a place to purchase prepaid cards in my area. I live in a really small town in the middle of no where do it makes finding things of that nature pretty hard. If ya know what I mean. So this is why I am searching for alternatives to doing things. So when I do need something I know what I can use. All the garden shops in my area are closed as of now because the season is over for gardening. Don't know why they close you would think they shoudl stay open a little longer but for some reason they do not. So with all this, this is why things are hard to find and I have a hard time ordering things. I could try asking a friend but would rather not but can do. If I could use there card if I paid them for it. I dunno.

[pudder]

Got some rockwool. Went and got a credit card. Now I purchase what I need. and its all on its way....... :)

[Opie Yutts]

NEVER, EVER USE ROCKWOOL.

Ever!

[SecondNut]

Well, since Opie popped in I guess I will too. Perlite is great for germinating and sprouting seeds. As Opie says, I don't recommend rockwool either (although a lot of people use it) for two reasons: it's natural ph is too high and too hard to control properly, and it retains too much moisture.

Get a couple of 12 or 16-oz styrofoam cups, poke a couple of small holes in the bottom, fill with perlite, set them in about 1/2-inch of water, deposit your seeds slightly below the surface, cover with plastic wrap to increase humidity, and your seeds will sprout in 3-5 days on average. I have about a 90% germination rate with perlite alone. You can even keep them in the cups for another week or longer, until you see roots starting to come out of the bottom holes, which allows them to have a root system and some growth under their belts before transplanting to a bubbler or pot. A teaspoon of vermiculite mixed in around the seeds will speed up germination slightly, with the sprouts showing about 1 day ahead of those without the vermiculite, but other than that it doesn't really increase success rate.

[Opie Yutts]

...WHen I check the PH of my res I will also take a sample of the water that is exiting 6" cubes...

...So I take a sample of this exit run off water. Depending on the lifestage and what I'm feeding the run off can be off as much as .2 for every feeding. This seems like a lot and it is...

...after 3 feedings or so I will adjust the PH of the Res (by this time it has also dropped) back to 5.8-5.9...

...I reset by uping the PH of the res and it starts over...



My condolences. I would chuck that shit immediately upon harvest clean-up. If you insist on starting seeds in 1" RW cubes, OK. But why don't you transplant them into clay pellets, or coco fiber, or an old T-shirt, or anything other than RW. Don't you think it would be worth it just to try once, and not have to always be wondering if your PH is alright?

[GodBud]

Rockwool sucks use hydroton in a net pot with a small cylinder of some sorts placed center in pot filled with vermiculite for the seed. Works everytime.

Peace

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

i personaly like rockwool, but no one else does

[Opie Yutts]

OLDJIMMY, do not despair. You are not alone. There are many people who use rockwool. I personally don't get it, but many people such as yourself do. You gotta stick with what works for you. On the other hand, you shouldn't be afraid to try different things as well, especially if a bunch of people recommend those things.

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

opie, what you think is the best? i alawys use rock wool surrounded in hydron rocks and prity much swear by it, its allawys good to me

[GodBud]

Yo Bones

Hey if it works dont try to fix it. IMHO I just think that rockwool is harder to judge regarding water scheduling. When using hydroton it takes out the over watering factor due to its high drainage factor thus allowing you to water accordingly without fear of over watering and gives you more control administering the nutes. Here is a photo roughly 3 weeks. Seed started in vermiculite placed in center. Roots are already bursting through the net pot. Plant looks very healthy!

Peace

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

vermiculite? this what you talking about in the pic? + plant 4 weeks

[GodBud]

Yeah thats it. I pack a little vermic in a small hole through some very stratigically engineered hydroton placement hehe 1/4 " deep seed plant. Just enough to getter rollin then them roots just take over! I am very pleased with these 2 mediums! Effortless! Automatic timer for lights/water. Meter for Ph and ppm the rest is history. Got some Jack Herer goin. Hope it turns out awe ite............

Peace

[Max Blast]

For anyone to say "Never Ever use Rockwool" is absolutely laughable.

Many of the biggest production growers out there use nothing but Rockwool in one form or another with astonishing results. I have used dirt, perlite, perlite/vermiculite mixes and Rockwool all with great success.

I am just a small grower but I have personally witnessed some very large poduction grows and it realy comes down to observation and learning regarding the use of any medium.

It is really too bad that many on these forums spout out mis-information based upon hearsay and not real growing experience. Even those with experience are really just giving their own personal preferences.

Rockwool is fine, Perlite is fine and even dirt is fine if you just spend a little time to learn how to use them.

regards,
Max Blast

[GodBud]

Max your right. I think that most of us that have commented on not liking RW is just our opinion. Although I dont have a ton of experience all I can say is that I have tried RW and Hydroton/vermic mix and I just had better results with the hydrot/vermic but thats just me. Everyone should just stick with what works for them.

Peace

[stinkyattic]

Rockwool cube or slab is fine if you already know what you are doing, know the plant, know def symptoms, are familiar with nute solutions, etc. It's not something I would ever recommend to a beginner, or someone who plans to give plants an extended veg period.
The simple way to use rockwool is plug in rooted clones, flower immediately in SOG, run drip-to waste.
Personally, I prefer hydroton, because it's re-usable and getting rid of spent rockwool slab is gross and icky and can lead to security issues. :D

[Opie Yutts]

Many of the biggest production growers out there use nothing but Rockwool in one form or another...

It is really too bad that many on these forums spout out mis-information based upon hearsay and not real growing experience.


We are not production growers on this forum, and many of us are beginners.

I must assume that though my input is based on experience, you are referring to me with regards to misinformation. Could you please point out where I was wrong, so that I can learn from my mistakes?

[Max Blast]

Opie, I believe it was the "NEVER USE ROCKWOOL ... EVER" part that got my attention.

Also I think you might be surprised by how many production growers are here from time to time.

BTW ... I really liked your stadium grom pics. I am a scrog grower and love the increased production it gives. Does away with all the light pnetration issues. Also great for when limited vertical growing space is available.

Stinky brings up a good point regarding the disposal of the rockwool at the end of the grow. That is one reason I prefer Pearlite/Vermiculite combos when possible. Also the Rockwool cubes (4" or 6") are not for very long vegg periods as mentioned.

I have found it is almost immpossible to over-water when using Rockwool unless you have the cube sitting directly in water. Excess water will drain right out the bottom. I water once a day.

regards,
Max Blast

[Opie Yutts]

Max, obviously that was just my opinion, but I am very adamant about it. Like stinky says, rockwool is fine if you've got everything dialed in properly, and you use it properly, but it's definitely not for beginners. A person is much less likely to get screwed over when they make certain mistakes if they are using something other than rockwool. I realize that many people use it and like it, and you gotta use what works for you. Actually, I think I said that somewhere already.

Darn tootin about the scrog/space issue. Thanks for the compliment. Us scroggers need to stick together.

[Opie Yutts]

NEVER DRIVE A FORD, EVER.

Oh boy, this could get good.

[OLDJIMMYBONES]

NEVER DRIVE A FORD, EVER.

Oh boy, this could get good.


Opie, I believe it was the "NEVER DRIVE A FORD, EVER." part that got my attention.

a lot of people drive fords and i think you saying that is ridiculous and unacceptable, j/k im bored