Interesting Videos Involving Proving Creationism

[reeferaddict69]

Hey guys, go check out this guy's videos. He does an excellent job of logically explaining Christianity and addressing skeptics and their questions.

YouTube - Satan Invented Evolution Part 1 Disproving the Big Bang (http://youtube.com/watch?v=CGrvp-8oDok&mode=user&search=)

:hippy:

[Hardcore Newbie]

I'll give it a watch soon enough, these things always interest me despite my scepticism.

[Hardcore Newbie]

I thought the presentation was going to be a little more intelligent.

in the beginning he asks four questions and he says according to evolution, we have no purpose. Even if that's true, does that disprove evolution, or does that just make evolution a little less self important? The whole beginning can be summed up as "Believe in God and you can believe you're important". We get our morals from empathy, not god.

He talks about lies, how repeating a lie over and over gets people to believe it and how people are more apt to believe a big lie than a small one. he somehow believes that the Bible isn't a part of this rule.

He talks about how science keeps changing how old the earth is, but he never explains why, and presumes that they pull these numbers out of thin air. These numbers are constantly refined, and in change in light of new evidence. The Bible, how ever, never changes, in spite of evidence, but that somehow makes the Bible better.

I was hoping it'd be a little more thought provoking, but it's the same old.

[DaBudhaStank]

true that, I watched it for about 3 minutes before I had to stop. It was mind numbing. It was basically the same old Christian dogma "We're right because the Bible says so, and if you disagree, you're wrong. We don't hate you, we just pity you because you're going to burn." I'm sorry, but this is just sad...

Also, I was raised Catholic, oh well.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

HAHAHAHAhahaahaa..... yep I'm with the posters before. This guy is a classic creationist retard. That's not to say creationists are retards, but in there are stupid people from every area of thought and this is the creationist brand of stupidity.


His whole argument, as I've heard so many times before, is that reality must be based on morality. Evolution didn't create life through moral means, creationism did, therefor creation is true. Plus evolution has you die and rot in the Earth, creation has you live for eternity in paradice. Since the later is much more pleassant, the latter must be true! lol, stupidity in the highest degree, just believing whatever is nicer. These fanatical creationists consistantly display substandard intelligence, making the most rediculous leaps in logic and pushing the most simple assertions as if they're mind-bendingly complex. It's bad enough that every argument against evolution comes from people who obviously don't understand more than the first 1% of the theory.

And don't you love the "everything is so complexly designed, so there must be an intelligent designer". Except that an intelligent designer would have to be the most complex design of all, but he doesn't need a designer at all!

[Fallen_Icarus]

We did not evolve from the animals we see today, they came from their own line of evolution just like we have, yet something has caused us to advance to such a level it would be silly not to even consider outside intervention.

Creationists do not like to ponder thoughts of us being planted and engineerd here like test tube genetically modified hybrid babies forcefully grown and evolved until we reach a stage in our 'process' in which we leave this pale blue dot we call earth and meet our 'Gods'.

I prefer to train these thoughts, for yet in hundreds of years of time one may think thoughts and words that have expanded these as simple truths and common knowledge just like if I was to go back in time and say to someone in the future I could bring down lightning from the sky and power cities and empires with it.

It can and has been done.

Never think that we are at the tip of the iceburg, im sure columbus thought he had discovered everything until someone told him to look up at the sky and train the idea of sailing that way lol.

[TPot]

We did not evolve from the animals we see today, they came from their own line of evolution just like we have, yet something has caused us to advance to such a level it would be silly not to even consider outside intervention.

Creationists do not like to ponder thoughts of us being planted and engineerd here like test tube genetically modified hybrid babies forcefully grown and evolved until we reach a stage in our 'process' in which we leave this pale blue dot we call earth and meet our 'Gods'.

I prefer to train these thoughts, for yet in hundreds of years of time one may think thoughts and words that have expanded these as simple truths and common knowledge just like if I was to go back in time and say to someone in the future I could bring down lightning from the sky and power cities and empires with it.

It can and has been done.

Never think that we are at the tip of the iceburg, im sure columbus thought he had discovered everything until someone told him to look up at the sky and train the idea of sailing that way lol.

Great ideas, man.

It's too bad that god doesn't exist. He would probably agree with you.

[Fallen_Icarus]

The solar system has always seemed like one big board game to me, and perhaps the idea of us now being able to genetically 'create' hybrid creatues and clone living organisms would further add fuel to the idea of us being engineerd to be and form into a certain type of organism.

The reason animals and creatures have formed the way they are formed is due to the environment which is surrounding them, differing types of conditions (call it nature) this environment (nature) has in essence, created them, you could say nature is their creator or 'God'.

Why have we larger brains than lions? Because nature prefers lions to reserve that much needed space for muscles (jaw muscles) etc call it, survival of the fittest.

But the Peculiarity of evolution resides in our own story, for, whom is our creator if we have experienced such a transition from nature?

Whom should rule as our God over nature if we are above nature?

Clearly nature has had no place in advancing us so quickly, biological engineering and genetic manipulation from an intelligent external force must have caused us to advance to such a level as we have ascertained today.

Nature alone would not have cared for us to build cities, travel outside into the black abyss we call the universe - nature cares only for survival on earth, for nature itself must be defied to exit the grip of it (defy gravity and fly).

So whom has evolved us beyond the realm of natures powers? Who cared for us to have the ability to power ourselves away from this earth with such an advancement in technologies in such a short space of time it is remarkable to think people dont even consider the idea that we are being guided by an external force!

[mfqr]

I've seen this guy on youtube before, on one of his other videos about how Satan Created Evolution.

Every single argument he uses is a straw-man argument which doesn't even begin to disprove evolution for the sake of creationism. I think this guy is pullin' everyone's leg (those who believe him). I bet he laughs at all the people who are praising his 'proof', etc. I seriously think he's an atheist. :)

He talks like those announcers on those 1950s propaganda videos.

Here's the one that I saw a few weeks ago:
YouTube - Proving Satan Invented Evolution (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xvyQRdlKiwI&mode=related&search=)

Such bullshit, haha. The only people praising him are the people who already believe in God.

[mfqr]

Like Fallen_Icarus said though, I do think it's possible that extraterrestials could have created us. In fact, it's possible that The Bible is a story based on such a thing. However, it wouldn't necessarily be an "omnipotent, all-powerful, all-knowing god." I think The Bible is just a series of stories based on what happened back then... basically like our written history, except expressed in the form of many anecdotes.

I found a video on google awhile ago, talking about the lost civilization of Atlantis. Basically, they were looking at the bible in a much different way. Totally metaphorical, and looked at the context very carefully. They came up with the possibility that the Bible is recorded history of the ancient civilization of Atlantis, who were extraterrestials. How "Eve" was actually talking about the Eve race, a race of women, who ran away from Earth. And the "Adamic" race (Adam), who were men. Then there was a big war, or something, and the extraterrestials lost most of their technology. That's the gist of it, it's much deeper than that. Although it may not be real, it is interesting. But I do think that the bible is simply a book based on the history of those times. And, it has been changed many times. Also, "God" is a reference to extraterrestials in the video. And it would make sense that people back then would think that extraterrestials would be "God."

[DSX 1]

Yeah I think there must have been some kind of intervention from some kind of race of beings

[couch-potato]

That guy is a disgrace to humanity.

[Hardcore Newbie]

I've seen this guy on youtube before, on one of his other videos about how Satan Created Evolution.
Every single argument he uses is a straw-man argument which doesn't even begin to disprove evolution for the sake of creationism. I think this guy is pullin' everyone's leg (those who believe him). I bet he laughs at all the people who are praising his 'proof', etc. I seriously think he's an atheist. :)Actually after watching it a second time, you seem to be on to something.

[Fallen_Icarus]

Evolution can be good at explaining how lower form animals can form into higher form animals, yet as I have said you cannot use evolution upon our own peculiar story and say "this is how we got here".

Evolution cannot be proved in this way, there are institutions offering millions to someone who can prove the THEORY of evolution.

But scientists love to hide behind the 4 billion years of time factor.

We cannot just say creationists are out right wrong until we ourselves (I address the atheists) prove that evolution is correct in terms of our arrival to the beings we have formed into today.

[Delta9 UK]

Evolution can be good at explaining how lower form animals can form into higher form animals, yet as I have said you cannot use evolution upon our own peculiar story and say "this is how we got here".


Why not? - If you accept we evolved (your above quote demonstrates that) then I'm not sure you know what you are actually talking about.



Evolution cannot be proved in this way, there are institutions offering millions to someone who can prove the THEORY of evolution.


Careful, theory is a funny word in science.

Show me such an institution.



But scientists love to hide behind the 4 billion years of time factor.

We cannot just say creationists are out right wrong until we ourselves (I address the atheists) prove that evolution is correct in terms of our arrival to the beings we have formed into today.[/B]

Scientists DONT hide behind anything - that's sort of the whole point.

Learn more biology - this is getting old.

[cadmiumblimp]

For all those who believed we could have been planted here by other beings or whatever -- who engineered the engineers?

[BenDover5151420]

Actually after watching it a second time, you seem to be on to something.

No i dont think he is on to shit. I can not even bring my self to finish it the first time, but this fool is stupid, he wants to feel more important than evrything ells. I think he and I are the same as animals. We are all here out of luck, from some cosomic burp or w.e that fool said.... I think religion is the biggst scam in history, however i understand the need to feel important, and i understand the need to keep people in line (thou shall not murder/steel) (thou shall not fuck thy naibor or somthing like that.. havnt read the bible in a long time.. but weak people who follow evry one ells need some rulles like those.

Not as many people are religious these days. Is it because times are pretty good? Thing are mostly fair for evryone. No one is beeing forced to build a pyramid all day. Religion is somthing made up to comfort you threw hard times and keep evryone under control.

I try my best to fallow the teachings of Buda, he was a man and a teacher. Nothing ells..

just my opinion

[Hardcore Newbie]

No i dont think he is on to shit. I can not even bring my self to finish it the first time, but this fool is stupid, he wants to feel more important than evrything ells. I think he and I are the same as animals. We are all here out of luck, from some cosomic burp or w.e that fool said.... I think religion is the biggst scam in history, however i understand the need to feel important, and i understand the need to keep people in line (thou shall not murder/steel) (thou shall not fuck thy naibor or somthing like that.. havnt read the bible in a long time.. but weak people who follow evry one ells need some rulles like those.

Not as many people are religious these days. Is it because times are pretty good? Thing are mostly fair for evryone. No one is beeing forced to build a pyramid all day. Religion is somthing made up to comfort you threw hard times and keep evryone under control.

I try my best to fallow the teachings of Buda, he was a man and a teacher. Nothing ells..

just my opinion
What I was saying was, that the guy in the video seems like he's making fun of Xians and religious people by mocking them.

[cadmiumblimp]

I don't know. Some bits of it seem like they HAVE to be satire (satan pentagram at Washington, D.C.?), but the guy can play a creationist just as well as...well, a creationist. I've lived around these people all my life and this guy has it SPOT ON.

[BenDover5151420]

Ic Ic.... well i kinda just saw my chance to thro my opinion out there so i took advantage.

and no i am not an atheist as u are implying.. I am very spiritual, and i practice my religion in evry aspect of my life... yes i do not belive any sort of god, but i dont think i fall in to the catogory of an atheist. what do u think? hardcore newbi

ps i know i cant spell my bad... i am primitive

[Ghengis Chron]

Interesting video. The guy seems rather condescending of those who are "humanists."

This is what I get from this guy....
"The bible is right, and nothing else is"

[Hardcore Newbie]

Ic Ic.... well i kinda just saw my chance to thro my opinion out there so i took advantage.

and no i am not an atheist as u are implying.. I am very spiritual, and i practice my religion in evry aspect of my life... yes i do not belive any sort of god, but i dont think i fall in to the catogory of an atheist. what do u think? hardcore newbi

ps i know i cant spell my bad... i am primitiveI'm just wondering what you practice if you don't believe in god.

[Reefer Rogue]

I enjoyed watching the video.

[Fallen_Icarus]

Why not? - If you accept we evolved (your above quote demonstrates that) then I'm not sure you know what you are actually talking about.

I think I was a bit too blunt with my statement, but how you percieved it is how you responded to it, so I dont blame you.

Let me elaborate, Evolution is called a theory because that is exactly what it is, it never called "evolution fact", because there are numerous question marks as to how we came about regarding evolution and how to prove evolution over such a long time scale.

HOWEVER, we can often see at small levels evolution taking place in the short term, such as animals adapting to their environment (this does not erase the question mark about our existence however) and evolving and improving into a higher formed animal which is more fit fore survival.

There have probably been many mutations in nature that simply were not fit for survival and do not exist today.

The question mark still remains on exactly how we got here, you cannot just see small animals evolving and adapting to their environment and apply that to your 4 billion year theory of evolution (a lot can happen in 4 billion years and there is a lot to prove such as how you turn a rock into a living organism) especially when you consider the fact that we have been on this planet for about 2% of its time of existence lol.


Scientists DONT hide behind anything - that's sort of the whole point.

Learn more biology - this is getting old.

Evolutionists do hide behind the time factor of 4 billion years.

How else do you explain how we turn from rocks into humans?

You say it took a very long time lol.

[wisco61]

I think I was a bit too blunt with my statement, but how you percieved it is how you responded to it, so I dont blame you.

Let me elaborate, Evolution is called a theory because that is exactly what it is, it never called "evolution fact", because there are numerous question marks as to how we came about regarding evolution and how to prove evolution over such a long time scale.

When you don't even understand the definition of a theory as it relates to science, you kind of lose all credibility. You are thinking of a hypothesis in relation to many questions being unanswered. In the sciences, a theory is a particular framework used to describe and understand the world around us. Such a framework is only recognized as a theory after a firm empirical basis for its body of knowledge has been established. This is done through such things as extensive and long-term experimentation and observation. Until you take two seconds to even understand one of the most basic terms in science, you may want to hold off on judging the merits of science.


HOWEVER, we can often see at small levels evolution taking place in the short term, such as animals adapting to their environment (this does not erase the question mark about our existence however) and evolving and improving into a higher formed animal which is more fit fore survival.

There have probably been many mutations in nature that simply were not fit for survival and do not exist today.

Not exactly sure what you are trying to say there but ok.


The question mark still remains on exactly how we got here, you cannot just see small animals evolving and adapting to their environment and apply that to your 4 billion year theory of evolution (a lot can happen in 4 billion years and there is a lot to prove such as how you turn a rock into a living organism) especially when you consider the fact that we have been on this planet for about 2% of its time of existence lol.

Yes because we think we evolved from rocks.... /facepalm


Evolutionists do hide behind the time factor of 4 billion years.

How else do you explain how we turn from rocks into humans?

You say it took a very long time lol.

Wow, do you actually believe what you are saying. You have no grasp of the science at all yet you are sure it is wrong. I've at least read the bible and a lot of people who believe in evolution were raised religious.

[Fallen_Icarus]

You are thinking of a hypothesis in relation to many questions being unanswered

But you fail to understand that if the hypothesis also has a great deal of unanswerable questions along with its opposing theory then the opposing theory is no more fruitless than the hypothesis.


In the sciences, a theory is a particular framework used to describe and understand the world around us.

A theory is also not fact, which makes creationism as much a valid hypothetical school of thought as evolution. Im not saying evolution is not correct, once it is established as a theory science is used to increase the probability of it being true through the use of discovery and whatever means you wish to use to prove that we evolved from rocks.

I doubt you can conduct an experimentation to prove we evolved from rocks, let alone observe it happening. But I dont know, have you got 4 billion years of time to spare?

A theory is a hypothesis and what is the definition of a hypothesis?

:


a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence

The meaning of the word opinion?

:

a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty;

And this does not by any means say that creationism is true or even that evolution is not true.

I rest my case:thumbsup:


This is done through such things as extensive and long-term experimentation and observation.

How do you go about using observation and experimentation as a means to prove that man evolved from rocks over a 4 billion year period?

Have you ever seen an ape evolve into a man?

Dont you think scientists would actualy laugh at your means as an attempt to "prove" without a shadow of a doubt that evolution is true?

Now you have lost credibility, nice try, I always enjoy seeing people joining in and learning from their mistakes

:thumbsup:


Until you take two seconds to even understand one of the most basic terms in science, you may want to hold off on judging the merits of science.

I by no means look down on science and discredit it, I doubt someone who actually studies the subject for a living would go about doing this lol.

Science is not about evolution, science is about learning, it is a skill to produce solutions which by no means should discredit the creationists theory OR the evolutionists theory.

I think you should understand that my message simply entails that due to the lack of evidence proving the evolution THEORY it makes it on parr with creationism which also is a theory based upon no fact or evidence.

Thats all im saying.

:thumbsup:


Not exactly sure what you are trying to say there but ok.

Well if you think about it, its simple, clearly we can look at evolution on a short term basis and show how animals can form into more adapted beings and conclude that their environment be the basis upon the characteristics they ascertain.

But try doing using this concept to prove that we evolved from rocks over 4 billion years.

And this brings me back to my original point, one may ask this question to an evolutionist and he/she may say:

"well it did take a long time" - hiding behind the time factor.


Yes because we think we evolved from rocks.... /facepalm

Who is "we"? Do you represent yourself and your own theories of coming to existence or are we talking about Darwinist evolution?

Because if we are talking of the latter then if you had any knowledge on the subject of evolution you would find that we did evolve from rocks and water according to the theory evolution.

But the former doesnâ??t bother me, you may think we were planted here by a race of hybrid horse monkeys.

Do some research, I have studied with evolutionists and I have asked many times; is this what you think? and they always reply "yes, this is the universal concept of evolution".

Now we just need to prove it.


Wow, do you actually believe what you are saying. You have no grasp of the science at all yet you are sure it is wrong. I've at least read the bible and a lot of people who believe in evolution were raised religious.

WOW slow down, I have not once said evolution is not true, how can I say this when there is no evidence to prove so?

You should think before you speak because I dont like people putting words in my mouth.

It is true evolutionists have to hide behind the 4 billion year period, that by no means makes evolution not true, it just emphasizes the fact that there is a huge flaw or gap (possibly waiting to be filled) in evolution, which CLEARLY puts evolutionists whom run down creationism as a stupid idea lacking evidence in a complete utter paradox.

And incase you dont understand the meaning of paradox here it is:


A paradox is an apparently true statement or group of statements that leads to a contradiction or a situation which defies intuition.

Its also an English Indie rock band.

[Charles U Farley]

Fallen_Icarus

Evolution cannot be proved in this way, there are institutions offering millions to someone who can prove the THEORY of evolution.

But scientists love to hide behind the 4 billion years of time factor.

Let me elaborate, Evolution is called a theory because that is exactly what it is, it never called "evolution fact", because there are numerous question marks as to how we came about regarding evolution and how to prove evolution over such a long time scale.

A theory is also not fact, which makes creationism as much a valid hypothetical school of thought as evolution. Im not saying evolution is not correct, once it is established as a theory science is used to increase the probability of it being true through the use of discovery and whatever means you wish to use to prove that we evolved from rocks.


Ok,I usually try to stay out of these debates because they seem pointless to me.No one is ever going to convince "creationist" to have an open mind and look at the evidence.FI, you are right,evolution is just a theory,a theory based on the fossil and geological records.As such Ill present my case with this evidence to support my theory and we can talk about derived v.primitive traits,natural selection,brain size and what are the evolutionary advantages to bi-pedalism. Ill present all of my evidence have you shoot it down and tell me why its wrong or wont work.That is fine,its healthy to be critical (I wish more people are when they are watching the network news)and to have a lively debate.But the problem is this debate is all one sided and has been since forever.I have one simple question after I presented my evidence of how we got here,how the Earth was formed and the processes involved...my simple is question is this,I have presented my evidence for my "theory",where is your evidence???Where is your scientific and empirical evidence for creationism???Dont treat me like a child or an idiot and say "look around you,there is my evidence".Unfortunately that is what it often boils down to in these debates.I would suggest that you take a Geology 101 course and couple of physical Anthropology courses.That will lay out the evidence for the "theory" of evolution.

Im not trying to be mean or rude,I think good healthy debate is great and I welcome it,but these arguments tend to be pretty circular in nature...dont you think?Have a great all and be safe.

[Delta9 UK]

^^Word

I think this guy is probably the last Creationist that was banned - re-registering again for more lolz.

Creationists like to waste your time - remember that.

This is a war as far as I'm concerned and Creationists are trying damn hard to convince people that what they spout is science and not bullshit.

Not enough people know enough biology (like Fallen Icarus) to argue and Creationists know this, if they struggle then back to circular logic.

Familiar posting style - commenting almost everything said with a rebuke.... reminds me of Nature Boy :wtf:

[Delta9 UK]

OK Let's play.

You say Creationism is on a par with Evolution and that they are competing theories.

If that's the case you should easily be able to define Creationism and how your theory works.

Let's start (ignoring how silly it is) by working out if you beleive in an old-world or a new-world 'theory' of creationism. Oh, and why. I would like evidence to support why your theory is the best one.

[Delta9 UK]

Besides you are talking about Abiogenesis - the truth or falsity of any theory of abiogenesis wouldn't affect evolution in the least, its apples and oranges and I think you are twisting the logic here - or just don't understand the science.

[TryptamineScape]

Being that no one from Earth has explored all that exists on Earth, much less space, I'd have to say that no one can be justified when they say Aliens don't exist. Nor can anyone be justified with saying they know how the Earth was created. Everyone from any side has their own ideas, beliefs and arguments. They all think they have proof. Real proof comes from tangible evidence. The fact of the matter is that evolution simply has much more tangible proof. God or no God, evolution wins in the proof area. Just my opinion.

[QUADRO]

I think this guy is a nut, This nut say people want to beleave that we came from monkies so we can act like monkies so we can shoot up schools do drugs and a bunch of other bullshit I must admit I did see a monky smoke before, but it was trained by man But I never seen a monky shooting up schools doing crack or other drugs for that matter Myself I came from my mother and other then that I donj't give a crap

[TryptamineScape]

How does that make sense? As far as I know humans are the only animals that will inflict pain on each other for no real purpose.

[Mr. Clandestine]

So many people here were quick to call this guy a nut, but didn't even bother watching the entire video. He actually debunks quite a bit of evolutionist conjecture, and does so with a cynical (not condescending) wit. The evolutionist fundamentalists here, who do nothing but make lame attempts to discredit him without any statements backing up their assertations, are only making themselves look foolish in the eyes of people who have actually had intelligent conversations about this subject matter before. What's the point of purposely trying to make a Christian feel guilty, embarrassed, or ashamed of their religion? Do you feel that way about your lack of beliefs? Very few Christians, with the exception of a handful of evangelistic loud-mouths, will purposely try to hurt the feelings of a non-believer for the stance they've chosen to take against God. Yet, there seem to be plenty of atheists
abound who, for the sake of trying to belittle a persons religions belief, arrogantly claim that all Christians/people of faith are complete morons for believing in intelligent design.

Spend a little more than fifteen seconds watching his video, and at least try to listen to the points being made about evolutionist theory. I'd recommend watching all of them, so that you'll have more 'ammunition', so to speak. Try your hardest to get past all of the "Christian rhetoric" first, and then try even harder to debunk the things he has to say about the various levels of evolution. (i.e. - chemical, cosmic, macro, organic, etc.) Once you can do that, you can rationally form an argument that will even be worth paying any attention to. Until then, you're only making yourselves appear like uneducated, bigoted, and highly prejudiced idiots. (Kind of like those pesky Christians you claim to abhor, eh?)

For those of you who backed up your statements with coherent arguments, this post was not intended for you...and please do pardon my little rant.

[TryptamineScape]

Until then, you're only making yourselves appear like uneducated, bigoted, and highly prejudiced idiots. (Kind of like those pesky Christians you claim to abhor, eh?)


There are those on both sides, and both sides will quickly point them out. It's human nature. I'm sure an atheist could easily take everything you just said and use it to their advantage, just like you can take anything an atheist says and use it to your advantage. It's a war that no one can win even with proof. If tomorrow science brought forth 100% undeniable proof that there was no such thing as intelligent design Christianity would still abound. It wouldn't phase them at all, at the most they would simply just change the religion a little bit more to fit the new evidence. Likewise, the same would apply for atheists. It's really just a useless argument. It doesn't matter if your statements are compeltely arrogant and unintelligent, or if they're completely sensible and backed up with mounds of proof. People will not stop believing in the convictions that make them who they are, regardless. Christians cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there even is a God. No matter what, it'll always be just speculation until God comes down and says, "Hey, I'm here, check it out." Atheists will use science for another hundred thousand years and still not be able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt God doesn't exist. When mankind is extinct, gone, or however you believe we will end, the debate will still be open. I used to argue till I was blue in the face that there is no God. I have countless books, documents and various other evidences that the Christian religion is a mirror of previous religions. It doesn't matter, because even with proof no one will change their ideals. I'm atheist, because I arrived at that conclusion through my own research. Other people are Christians because they likewise arrived at that conclusion. Wrong or right doesn't even matter anymore. People are arguing simply to argue.

I couldnt' watch the video or I would have, but you made a good point...

How can anyone debate that which they know nothing of?

Unless I'm provoked I try to stay away from these creation debates...I believe what I believe and that's all that matters, if you're cool with me, I don't care what you beleive, we're friends...

[TryptamineScape]

In the end we'll probably all find out we're all wrong...there will be no God, no intelligent design, and no big bang / evolution...then we'll all just sit around and get high together stunned that we wasted so much time arguing about it...which is what we should just do now...we're all still humans...how should it matter how we got here?

[Mr. Clandestine]

In the end we'll probably all find out we're all wrong...there will be no God, no intelligent design, and no big bang / evolution...then we'll all just sit around and get high together stunned that we wasted so much time arguing about it...which is what we should just do now...we're all still humans...how should it matter how we got here?

I don't believe this is how 'the end' will turn out, but you're absolutely right...our varying opinions on the matter will prevent us from ever reaching a common-ground on several of these pertinent issues. That's still okay, and I'm not here to dispute anything you have to say, or anyone else for that matter. I, like you, am dead-set in my own beliefs, and cannot be convinced otherwise. But, that doesn't mean we can't still be friends. I have plenty of non-religious friends, and I rarely discuss theological matters with them, unless a friendly conversation just so happens to spring up. Then we discuss our views like adults, and it's over with. I've never been one to attack another person with my viewpoints, because I see very little good that could come of it. I have had plenty of debates over my viewpoints, but only when they proved to be constructive and thought-provoking. Otherwise, I respectfully bowed out before name-calling and childish hostilities could ensue.


Again, I see no reason why we can't be friends. We have common interests, obviously, or we wouldn't be frequenting this website! Differences aside, we're all human...and we'll all meet the same fate after our demise. However you want to speculate the outcome may be. Until then, we should focus on being at peace with one another, as opposed to constantly gnashing teeth and trying to put the other person down. That's not a debate, it's just shameful.

Take care, brother.

[snowblind]

what a duche bag, he is a retard and doesnt even understand the theories. Creationsits mock evolution, yet when you mock their stupid beliefs they get all anal because the've been indoctrinated into a religon.

this just proved evolution doesn't nessecerily help everyone

[snowblind]

i was abit board so i pulled him up on every point he makes that is bogus. i hate small pricked douhes like this. so i sent him this

dear venom fang x

i watched you video about satan creating and noticed how much spin and fantasy you put into your little speach.
so i decided to address all of your 'facts' point by point and maybe help to enlighted you.
you strike me as someone who is intelligent just has been subjected to the same rhetoric that you can not see the woods for the trees.
so lets begin

1. A frog turning into a prince.
great starting line, but greatly misinterpretates the idea of evolution.
all animals we see on earth today are already on their evolutionary track.
so a frog turning into a human would be impossible as their evolutionary path, if ever diverged many millenia ago

2.Millions and billions of years (gay voice thing)
im gonna adress all the points you make about time here and your stupid assumptions about how the earth is getting older.
400 years ago the people believed the world was flat.
this was because we had never been to space and had only travelled the world by boat.
From this perspective it is impossible to observere the curviture of the world.
It is observable from the horizon, but the limited degree or curviture and magnitude that would be required to relate that to the planet is not something that would come easily.
So it is easy to see why the earth was thought as flat.
From this vain it is easy to see why the life of earth has been increased.
It is just a matter of scale applying this to reference ponts.
It has always been thought that the earth was old, just as with the earth being round perspective is a hard thing to grasp.
It is also worth noting that up until maybe the early 19th century christianinty in the western world was the law.
People lived very sheltered and repressed lifes and rocking the boat was often tantemount to treason.
It is all just a question of scale, but one that has become more accurate with greater scientific research and sociolical changes.

3.Creationist and Evolutionary views at war
They are not at war, its just people of your religous ilk have such a fragile belief system that when it comes under scrutiny you take it as a personal attack.
If your faith is so fragile you could laugh it off.

4.Who i am (what am i worth)
You equate being created from god to being special and being evolved as being dead.
You as with all religons that are from the same scriptures (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) completely negate spirituality in your beliefs.
Spitirtuality is something that we all posses and is perhaps our greates evolutionary product.
It is love, compassion, self worth and feeling connected to the human race.
It is not something mutually exclusive of being in a religous sect, but part of being human.
I do not believe in god, but know i am special and of xtreme value to myself, my family, my friends and my race.

5. Sheer accident.
Depends on how you look at it, i think that life on this planet and in the universe, is the most rare and wonderful thing.
Life is like diamonds and it nessesity to specific conditions, but beautiful all the same.
Saying life is a cosmic burp, is juvenile spin docterin.

6. No meaing to life.
The meaning of life is to make it meaning ful. to do things of worht value and substance.
Just because i don't believe in god doesn't mean that i want to murder rape and kill.
Humans where around long before the rehtoric of god and they got on just fine.
This is becuase we have evolved to interact with one another.
And through constant contact with the same groups, initailly family and neighbours, we get along as it is likely we will encounter the same humans.
Monkeys, apes, dolphins, meer cats, lions they don't believe in GOD but all have social structures and networks.
Saying god created morailty is extrodinarily ignorant.


7. Recycled into an earth worm of plant.
This may be true of the carbon composite body we live in.
But may not be nessecerily true of our souls, we don't know. no one knows.

8.Do what god wants.
Why would god created rules and boundires for us?
if he wanted to create eden why put in a test for us to fail.
As if we are all made in the image of god then we shouldn't mess it up.
The reason humans are written about falling from grace, is a story tale created to scare people into believing the rehtoric and a from of social control.
That has been exploited by many religous people over the mileniu to get power, wealth and sex.

9. The idea of evolution 'got' started by the devil saying eat from the forbidden tree.
NO, it didn't the idea of evolution was started, publised and researched by charles darwin.
It is a realatively new concept that only came about by technological and scientifc break throughs allowing us to observe and document wildlife away from teh ever watchful eye of religous heratics.

10.Sailing around the universe.
This is something that could happen, if we can control and stabalise cryogenic freezing, then we can prolong human life so that it can travel to deeper reaches of space.
Yet again your spinning comparing this to Star Trek.

11. Not much intelligent life on this planet.
Wow witty. that house your in, the foundations, that computer, your ipod, your car, your school, your church.
The electricty in your house, the process's to created that scooby do you love. ALL CREATED BY DUMB PEOPLE
According to you. But if you asked me the same question i would probably say the same thing about you.

12.Satan wants to be god.
Only because the bible says so.
this is no more prove of the bible as the flying spegetti monster or the invisible pink unicorn is.
Rhetoric pure and simple.

13.We are made in the image of god.
If we are made in the image of god, then god is gay, god is unhappy, god is depressed, god is an evolutionist, god is a murdered, god is all the human flaws we see today.

14. If you tell al like long enough
this is so true, no think about it really hard. Bible, god, 2000 years.
Have you worked it out yet ?

15.LOOK at that text book.
ITS from fucking 1989 its almost 20 years old.
Technology and scientfic discoveries have changed so much since then.
You are flawing yourself.

16.Do we know the earth is 4.5 billion years old.
No we don't but it is an estimate based on calculations, measurements and observations.
Its a damn sight better guess, that it being created in 7 days.
The reason that the people in the last centuary think this is beacuse we are at our most advanced.
400 years ago we where taught the earth is flat.
So what we should still teach that too.
No, its just in the last centuary the church has lost the majority of its power and presence in modern day society and people are hungry for the truth.
Not rehtoric from the King james revised edition of the bible published in 1611

17. Evolution
none of those are acutally definitions of evolution, just contextual connotations of the word.
Big Bang theory, whilst never observed, as we weren't there its effecs are visable.
Radiation from the bigbang is still floating around the universe. What do you think static on your radio is?
Also through the dobler effect, red shift and triangulating planets, it is possible to observe the outwards motion of planets and stars.
All from one origin.
Chemical evolution, i dont do chemistry so this is the only thing i can't contest.
See when you don't know or understand something you can let it go.
Stellar evolution, stars die. red giants, super dwarfs, implosion. and ending needs a start. self furfilling.
Organic evolutionhttp://news.cnet.co.uk/software/0,39029694,39193449,00.htm
showing that with enough time, heat rna and protiens where created, hence. dah da life.
Macro evoltuion. animals don't change from one kind of animal to another, you really don't understand evolution.
Still this has been simulated through richard dawkins work in selctive gene mutation.
That through a relatively short amount of genertaions 30 - 40, which is about 1000 year, evolution can have significant effects.
So when applied over many many many many milenia the effects would be amazing.
Micro evolution, proves evoltion within a species that has already evolved to its highest level.

18. House fly
A fly will never not be a fly as it is a fly. You really don't understand evolution.

19. clear as glass
Sand blasted glass isnt clear, nor are stained glass windows. they are opaque.

20.somebody made the world or the world made itself.
Neither, the world was created by particles that where attracted to each other after falling into orbit withing our galaxy.
as they got bigger so did their gravitational pull pulling more particles.
I have another choice.
The earth didnt consiously created itself. the laws of physics did.

21.where did go come from.
You hide from the answer by posing a question.
i know where my answers come from.
WHERE DOES YOUR GOD COME FROM ?

22.Why does something have to exist?
The laws of thermodynamics state nothing can come from nothing.
but these laws only apply to our universe.
what if there are more universes, more laws and more life?

23.Saying the universe always existed is religous.
NO it is not religous, it is scientific. It is based on logic, reasoning, research and the culmination of some of the greatest minds in the world.
Religon is based on rehtoric, scare tactics, fear and brainwashing.

24.BACKED UP BY FACTS
your fact is your logic, created by your upbringing by your parents who are christian.
Because you are white, american and middle class. your facts are the amalgimation of circumstance and chance.
If you had been born in Iraq you would be a muslim, china you would be dowist or buddist.
Your facts arn't facts they are circumstantial.

25. jibberish textbooks.
the reason your textbooks and knowledge is awful is becuase of the above fact.
that your country has alot of people like you who don't want to accept their beliefs could be wrong.
so rather than accept that you could be wrong you rip apart the second rate education you had.
The only reason you had this education was because of people like you ripping it to peices.
would you rather america negate the sciences and have bible studies.
Your children read these texts books because it makes it easy for you to brainwash them into religon.
all people like you go one about the children, when it is you who are hurting them.


I would love to here what you have to say as i welcome healthy deabte.
And its always fun chatting to american chritians

Peace and enlightenment.

Alistair

[Iambreathingin]

Embrace your concious nature of mind to feel important. Your fatei s in your own hands and the hands of mankind, not some infalible god who will do it for us. "God" Is not overruler but quite simply human spirit depicted as an vatar to make him simple to understand.

The bible taken literally is a way for the layman to practice a spiritually pure life without devoting the power of thought to it.

Do not attribute the beauty of the world we percive to the insulting simplciity of one divine creation. Evoloution is written into the fabric of life. There is evidence all around us.

A common musconception is that belief in scientific research is to neglect your spiritual self, but on the the contrary the two can co-exist.

Just look at the Dali Lama, a man of immense compassion and spiritual devotion, respct by buddhist and non buddhists world wide as a religious firguehead, and his knoledge of science and curiousty over it surpasses many of those whom believe soely in science on its own.

[Hardcore Newbie]

It's a war that no one can win even with proof. If tomorrow science brought forth 100% undeniable proof that there was no such thing as intelligent design Christianity would still abound. It wouldn't phase them at all, at the most they would simply just change the religion a little bit more to fit the new evidence. Likewise, the same would apply for atheists.
Wrong. The mind of most atheists (who tend to be sceptics) is that when there's proof of something, they'll believe it. If there were actual, verifiable evidence, then there would be very few atheists. To think that an atheist is a person whose non-belief is based upon superstition, is missing the whole point of non belief in the first place.


Atheists will use science for another hundred thousand years and still not be able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt God doesn't exist.
Which is a common logical fallacy. Anyone who falls back on this argument, isn't really even arguing at the point. If someone falls back on this for the basis of their belief, then they're belief is exactly on par with the Flying Spaghetti Monster.


How can anyone debate that which they know nothing of?
you debate any God the same way because all gods are made up. The Xian god is the same as Zeus or Thor.

[Iambreathingin]

Note: On the evoloution thing...just look at how animals adapt to their habitats. We HAVE witnessed this change. Insects who live the entire lives for generations underground lsoe their eyesight and develop greater senses that benefit their environment. There are even tribespeople in africa who have an extra bone in their spinal cord that they and they alone posses because their habitat demanded that their race geneticlly adapted inorder to survive.

Perhaps it's a waste of time seeing as the only answer I ever get is "Well actually you're wrong because any piece of evidence that might suggest a religion is wrong is clearly the work of Satan to misguide us, or God to test our faith."

*shrug*

[TryptamineScape]

Wrong. The mind of most atheists (who tend to be sceptics) is that when there's proof of something, they'll believe it. If there were actual, verifiable evidence, then there would be very few atheists. To think that an atheist is a person whose non-belief is based upon superstition, is missing the whole point of non belief in the first place.
I stand corrected, I'm sure if God came down and verified his existence to be true, I'd believe in him. You're right.




Which is a common logical fallacy. Anyone who falls back on this argument, isn't really even arguing at the point. If someone falls back on this for the basis of their belief, then they're belief is exactly on par with the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
I wasn't really arguing, I was making an example of why I choose not to argue. I've presented many a xtian with all the information I can muster and yet they still seem to think I'm going to hell for it.



you debate any God the same way because all gods are made up. The Xian god is the same as Zeus or Thor.
The followers of zeus and thor wouldn't have abandoned their posts quite so easy either. A xtian will use their Bible to defend themselves just as we would use science. I've never seen a debate where a xtian was presented with scientific proof who then backed down and decided to not be an xtian anymore. It's proved itself much more effective to me to first use the bible itself. The bible, on most occasions will deny itself. I probably know more about the Bible than I do about evolution, which is exactly why I can't believe in the Bible.

I wasn't attacking anyone in my thoughts, that was simply my opinion, not an opening statement in a debate. Had I been debating someone I would have definitely had much better structure and sound argument. I just never saw a difference in beliefs a cause for war (figuratively).

[Hardcore Newbie]

I wasn't really arguing, I was making an example of why I choose not to argue. I've presented many a xtian with all the information I can muster and yet they still seem to think I'm going to hell for it.
Sorry, I re-read my last post and I can see how it looks like I was being confrontational, which wasn't my intention.

But sometimes it's worth it, some people will realize that what they believe in doesn't make any sense. These are the people I'm looking to debate. Sure, I assume I'm right, but in all of my debates with believers, they've never given me any proof of the existence of God, and while I've never disproved it, I've shown a few people why it's futile to believe for belief's sake.



The followers of zeus and thor wouldn't have abandoned their posts quite so easy either. A xtian will use their Bible to defend themselves just as we would use science.
That's the thing, just because they aren't easily swayed, just because they are concrete in their beliefs, that doesn't mean they're right.

I used to think if I were a believer, and someone presented me with the argument "You're using the Bible to defend the Bible, circular logic" that I'd pipe back with "You're using science to defend science, same thing!"... but it doesn't work like that.

Science works by collecting data and observing, and being able to test, retest, and test again. Basically, it works on evidence. It's all available to the public. If someone doesn't believe the theory of gravity, any person can be taken step by step on the reasoning and correlating evidence behind the theory. Religion can't claim anything near this.


I've never seen a debate where a xtian was presented with scientific proof who then backed down and decided to not be an xtian anymore. It's proved itself much more effective to me to first use the bible itself. The bible, on most occasions will deny itself. I probably know more about the Bible than I do about evolution, which is exactly why I can't believe in the Bible.
But personally, I see this as a problem. The Bible itself tells you that if one part isn't true, disregard the whole thing. When a part of the Bible is proven untrue, they move the goalposts. "oh, that story is not literal, look at the meaning behind it". At that moment, anyone that uses this line of thinking is basically admitting that the whole Bible could be made up. They don't want to think that, of course, so they themselves will arbitrarily decide which parts of the Bible are true and which are "just stories".

The Bible itself makes no distinction on which stories are made up and which ones are real. I just keep asking question as to where they draw the distinction and why? Basically getting them to admit that they could be wrong about where they're drawing the line, showing them where I've drawn the line (all fake). While I don't get everyone to change, I've seen quite a few people go on by saying that while what they belief might not be rational, they still do. In this case, you are stuck in the debate, because who can debate irrationality? no one.

[TryptamineScape]

Sorry, I re-read my last post and I can see how it looks like I was being confrontational, which wasn't my intention.
It's fine, I didn't think you were being too confrontational anyway.


That's the thing, just because they aren't easily swayed, just because they are concrete in their beliefs, that doesn't mean they're right.
Exactly. I believe that I am right in my beliefs...but realize that I could be wrong at the same time.


The Bible itself makes no distinction on which stories are made up and which ones are real. I just keep asking question as to where they draw the distinction and why? Basically getting them to admit that they could be wrong about where they're drawing the line, showing them where I've drawn the line (all fake). While I don't get everyone to change, I've seen quite a few people go on by saying that while what they belief might not be rational, they still do. In this case, you are stuck in the debate, because who can debate irrationality? no one.
That was my original point. You can't debate irrationality. Also, I think different people will draw that line in completely different places. Xtians tend to debate xtians just as much if not more than they debate atheists. I simply draw the line at the beginning. I feel that if you have to make a distinction between which parts are real and which parts are fake based simply on what you decide, then the whole thing is probably worthless.

[Hardcore Newbie]

Exactly. I believe that I am right in my beliefs...but realize that I could be wrong at the same time.
The fact that you admit you could be wrong shows that you're open minded.


That was my original point. You can't debate irrationality. Also, I think different people will draw that line in completely different places. Xtians tend to debate xtians just as much if not more than they debate atheists. I simply draw the line at the beginning. I feel that if you have to make a distinction between which parts are real and which parts are fake based simply on what you decide, then the whole thing is probably worthless.I think the debate is won when you get someone to admit that they're being irrational. Whereas if you don't get this admission from them, you're basically on the same level as them, in respect to having valid arguments. Telling someone that they're being irrational is one thing, getting them to admit it is the part where you've shown them that you have every right to disregard their nonsense.

[TryptamineScape]

very true...very true...

[rocktheganj]

i don't really worry about religion or where we came from... its kinda like nobody'll ever know for sure, we should just be grateful for being here, and live it up. as for religion in general, it's never done the world any good.... so far it's just been an excuse for war and killing.


but i strongly disbelieve in christianity and the bible because they're so "elite" and if you don't agree with them then you go to hell. even if you're a really good person.

[snowblind]

hi, i just want to apologise for cominga cross agressive in my tone. but i just get anoid by the way that creationists mock evolution theories, but get very defensive when we mock their 'faith'

to anyone who is jewish, christian, muslim or any other religon. i have no problem with you. i know its the typical thing, such as with rascism when someone says your racist and they reply no i have black friends. but i have friends of all faith. i don't descriminate friendship on the basis of what someone believes.

everyone can believe what they like and im sure not everyone agrees with me. but i sent that email to that lad because his 'evidence' isn't evidence. he is, as with most evangalists simply a very good spin doctor.

anyway he replied to my email, with sound logic. if you believe that life is black or white. god or no god.

but his final evidence was a video from ken hovind

check this out if you dont know who he is

Kent Hovind - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind)

anyway her is his reply to my email, completely negating all of my points. i cant send my reply as i sent it and cant get it till he sends me another reply.

peace

WHERE DOES YOUR GOD COME FROM ? -you

Firstly, you have 2 choices; either everything came from nothing (which is impossible), or something always existed and created us. You have no other choice. Take a moment to think about that.

This thing that always existed would be considered Eternal, having transcended time, space, and matter, being everlasting, having always existed. If you argue this is impossible, I would argue the contrary; it is impossible for this Eternal 'thing' to not exist, because the alternative is that nothing existed, which could only produce nothing. So, something always existed, and is therefor Eternal.

Now, for something to be Eternal, it can not consist of time, because time must have had a beginning. We exist in a universe of causality, so an infinite regress is impossible; there could not have been an infinite amount of time before right now, because we never would have reached this moment in time. That means time had a beginning, and whatever created time exists without time, beyond time, in timelessness; Eternity.

So, this Eternal Creator, created time, and the universe. This Eternal Creator cleary is extremely powerful, because the energy of the trillions of stars in the known universe were created by this Creator. And obviously, the Creator is extremely intelligent, having created an intelligent being such as mankind and a world in which to populate with it.

FreeHovind - Watching Video: The Age of the Earth (http://freehovind.com/watch-id-4308235066145651150)


Watch the first video called the Age of the Earth

[snowblind]

then i sent this

wow, thankyou for sending me that video. ill admit i didn't watch it before i replied. but in the spirit of having an open mind i thought i would.

then to my surprise, to my horror, to my sheer sheer amusement it was a seminar by ken hovind.

i thankyou i really do.

this man embodies everything about why you believe the convictions you do.

have you looked up his wiki

heres the website

http://uk.youtube.com/my_messages?folder=inbox&filter=messages

if there ever was a person who discredits, disproves and stands to rock the foundations of your beliefs it is this man.

he has no accredited education

he is currently serving time on felonies regarding tax evasion

he basically used the bible to tap into peoples wallets for his own gain.

surely that is the sin of greed.

anymore 'evidence'

peace and progress