Oakland Airport Outrage

[Torog]

Oakland Airport Outrage

Monday , October 01, 2007

By John Gibson


John Edwards always talks about "two Americas," but I don't think he's talking about these two Americas.

On a flight from Phoenix to San Antonio, a flight attendant came back to coach and quietly informed a young soldier returning from Iraq that a woman in first class wanted to switch seats with him. He went to the front â?? to the big seats and the hot lunch â?? and the first class lady came back to his bag-of-peanuts coach seat.

Passengers around her applauded and a few were moved to tears. Acknowledging the applause the first class lady said simply: "I did it because he deserves it."

Cut to the San Francisco Bay Area where soldiers and Marines returning to their home base in Hawaii stopped for a layover, but found they were not welcome in the passenger terminal.

This comes from noted neocon Michael Ledeen in the National Review, who reports receiving an e-mail from a Marine chaplain returning with troops from Iraq. The chaplain said when troops got to Oakland International Airport in Oakland, California â?? not far from San Francisco â?? the welcome mat was not out:

"On September 27, 204 Marines and soldiers who were returning from Iraq were not allowed into the passenger terminal at Oakland International Airport. Instead they had to deplane about 400 yards away from the terminal where the extra baggage trailers were located."

This was not a security measure. After going through super-tight security, checking for contraband, ammunition and explosives in Kuwait, the soldiers and Marines had been allowed in the terminal building in Germany and at JFK in New York. But on the far-left coast they were quarantined from civilians.

This smacks of the bad old days in the Bay Area when returning Vietnam vets were spat upon. Some high-ranking military person should make sure it never happens again. Our Iraq vets should be welcome anywhere and everywhere.

That's My Word.

[medicinal]

Yes, we should welcome them home. It's not their fault they were thrust into a hell like environment and brainwashed to believe the brown skined man was the enemy. Not their fault the idiot Neo-cons started an un-winnable war with the "Islamofascists". Not their fault they have to wear the uniform of world hate. Inside those uniforms are young men and women that have been to hell and back. Please forgive them and recieve them home. Peace.

[Torog]

Yes, we should welcome them home. It's not their fault they were thrust into a hell like environment and brainwashed to believe the brown skined man was the enemy. Not their fault the idiot Neo-cons started an un-winnable war with the "Islamofascists". Not their fault they have to wear the uniform of world hate. Inside those uniforms are young men and women that have been to hell and back. Please forgive them and recieve them home. Peace.

Howdy medicinal,

Well..ya sorta got the idea..but not really,huh ?

I think that it's pretty sad though,that the only enemies to freedom that you see in the world,are Americans..maybe you should pick up a history book and find out who the real enemies to freedom are and have been and continue to be.

You can believe what you want,but the fact is that America has liberated more people from tryanny,than all other countries combined,in the history of mankind.

Have a good one ...

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Think of it this way Torog. Medicinal (who happens to mirror my views in this case) agrees with you 100% that the troops deserve the support and respect of the American people. You two may disagree with the war in Iraq, but it is not because he loves terrorists or because you hate brown-skinned people. It's because you both have different beliefs on whether this war is good for the world or the American people. Ya both still support the troops, and that's some common ground I think we can all be friendly to each other for.

Have a good one. :thumbsup:

[Torog]

Howdy Gandalf,

Well I suppose that ya could be right as far as support for the troops goes,but clearly-not the mission.

As you know,I fully support the mission,not just the troops.

This whole mess has been brewing since the '79 hostage crisis in Iran,if not since the inception of Islam.

Those who don't support the mission,are willfully turning a blind eye to the fact that muslim-jihadists are committing some of the most horrific acts of brutality ever witnessed in modern history..because the koran orders all muslims to aid in the dissolving of all non-muslim goverments and the death and subjugation of all non-muslims.

Have a good one ...

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Howdy Gandalf,

Well I suppose that ya could be right as far as support for the troops goes,but clearly-not the mission.

As you know,I fully support the mission,not just the troops.

This whole mess has been brewing since the '79 hostage crisis in Iran,if not since the inception of Islam.

Those who don't support the mission,are willfully turning a blind eye to the fact that muslim-jihadists are committing some of the most horrific acts of brutality ever witnessed in modern history..because the koran orders all muslims to aid in the dissolving of all non-muslim goverments and the death and subjugation of all non-muslims.

Have a good one ...


I'm not turning a blind eye to anything. I don't support the mission specifically because of jihadists. Iraq was a secularist state that kept sharia law at bay, that's why they were so unpopular with fanatical sharia nations. I've said it again and agian but nobody ever addresses this fact; the Iraqi invasion has increased resentment toward the US, massively increased terrorist recruitment, because otherwise peaceful young men are seeing their friends and family blown up and starting to believe that we are genuinly launching a crusade against Islam.

[Psycho4Bud]

Come on now dude.....friends and family? Of who? Some person brought in from Yemen? I really doubt it. This is just pulling out the assclowns. Iraq and Afghanistan is the battle ground and their taking HUGE losses due to our efforts. These "recruits" would be doing the same in another arena if not in Iraq.

We're also breaking up different organizations like Al-Sadrs....seems that the central control isn't there anymore with this group. I would imagine that is just one of many.

Have a good one!:s4:

[andruejaysin]

Military aircraft do not have doors which match airport terminals, obviously due to a vast left wing conspiracy.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Come on now dude.....friends and family? Of who? Some person brought in from Yemen? I really doubt it. :

Do you honestly believe Iraqi people don't have friends and family P4B? The majority of casualities aren't soldiers, insurgents, partisons, or terrorists. The majority of casualities are civilians being bombed because of the precarious security situation brought on by the invasion, and the American bombs that target enemies and kill many civilians in the process. The civilian death toll from this war is at least in the hundreds of thousands. This is common-sense stuff, if somebody charges into your country and kills friends and family (because everybody killed had friends and family), you're not going to feel too friendly towards them.

The media paints the "insurgents" like they're all just insane terrorists. There are plenty of fanatical nutjobs of course, but a lot are just patriots fighting an occupying force after seeing mom, sister, or best buddy killed. Believe it or not, those savages over there think a lot like us and have people in their lives just as important to them.

[geonagual]

Military aircraft do not have doors which match airport terminals, obviously due to a vast left wing conspiracy.


I bet they were flying commercial..otherwise they would of landed on a military base.

[Torog]

Howdy Gandalf,

Saddam kept Iraq secular,so that he could make all the decisions and he did so,with a brutal and savage,secret police force..are you saying that such is a desirable thing for any given country ? That we should have left such in place,that we should not have rocked the boat,because islamofascists may resent us ?

At any rate-this here thread is about what happened to our soldiers in Oakland,and there's gonna be an investigation and preliminary intel is that this has happened before. :mad:

Here in Texas,we give every returning soldier, a hero's welcome..there are so many folks wanting to go to the airport to welcome them home,that they can't git everyone a chance,they have to rotate the welcoming committee's.

I think that both Oakland and San Francisco,should be boycotted and early reactions of anger,are pointing in that direction. I think that tax-payer money should be withheld from both cities,if this is gonna be their policy towards our soldiers.

Have a good one ...

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Howdy Gandalf,

Saddam kept Iraq secular,so that he could make all the decisions and he did so,with a brutal and savage,secret police force..are you saying that such is a desirable thing for any given country ? That we should have left such in place,that we should not have rocked the boat,because islamofascists may resent us ?



You may be surprised Torog but I agree with you on this. Saddam was a terrible SOB indeed. But I'm looking at the overal results of this invasion. Sure anybody can say it's good to depose a dictator, but world conflicts are a very strategically complicated matter. Much as I don't like saddam, the Iraqi's aren't better off having hundreds of thousands of them slaughtered, gangsters running their cities, and god knows how many of them maimed with concussions and lost limbs.

As is, the top sellers in Baghdad right now are viagra and valium, because the men are too stressed from constant violence to even have a sex drive or be able to sleep/relax.

I've already stated the many reasons why the Iraqi invasion is a strategic blunder in relation to Iran.

And lets face it, if this war were about deposing a brutal dictator, there are much worse dictators with much worse treatment over their people than Saddam. Why aren't we deposing them instead? I'll bet there wouldn't be an insurgency problem if America deposed the government in North Korea, the people under their rule are MUCH worse off than those under Saddam. You can bet that's one nation that actually would greet them as liberators, one that needs to be set free more than any other. And North Korea is undoubtedly a real threat.



I disagree with you possition Torog, but I can respect it because your heart's in the right place. Looking at the bigger picture, from many angles, I'm sorry to say I can't agree with you though.

[andruejaysin]

But there isn't a drop of oil anywhere in korea. And I gotta say valium and viagra sell pretty well worldwide, not sure you can really blame the war for that.

[mfqr]

Howdy Gandalf,

Well I suppose that ya could be right as far as support for the troops goes,but clearly-not the mission.

As you know,I fully support the mission,not just the troops.

This whole mess has been brewing since the '79 hostage crisis in Iran,if not since the inception of Islam.

Those who don't support the mission,are willfully turning a blind eye to the fact that muslim-jihadists are committing some of the most horrific acts of brutality ever witnessed in modern history..because the koran orders all muslims to aid in the dissolving of all non-muslim goverments and the death and subjugation of all non-muslims.

Have a good one ...

Eh, man, no disrespect, but I see propaganda in lots of your posts... the pictures, I mean. In every pro-war post you make, or at least the ones I've seen, you have propaganda pictures posted at the bottom of your posts. Why, though?

"I learned everything I need to Know about Islam on 9/11" - yep, so hate Islam as a whole because of 9/11 - even though there is no proof of an actual Al-Qaeda, or that Islamist extremists did it. And not to mention that there is no proof of a vast global terrorist network who hate freedom and want to kill us and terrorize us. No, not at all. The Islamist Extremists are not working in cells across the globe, to do terror attacks. They're extremists who want to restore the "real" Islam, and yes, they do it by killing those who claim to be muslim, but are not "real" muslims. This is purely a muslim thing, and is isolated to the middle-east and Egypt. they do not like the US, of course, but that is not part of their cause. They only want to get rid of the westernized society in THEIR Islamic countries. And, by the way, they are not highly organized. And the argument you have for the Koran, I believe, is exaggerated. It's more of the idea of getting rid of all fake muslims; those who claim to be muslim, but are not... corrupt muslims, in otherwords. That is who they believe they can kill with justice in the name of Islam. Al-Qaeda and the "vast terrorist network that is even in America!" is for the most part a lie. Not to say that there isn't terrorism in the world - but it's not any different nowadays than it was in the 60s. it hasn't changed!

I see your cause, Torog, but I seriously despise propaganda. Really, I do. But I mean no disrespect to you by saying this.

Take care

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

But there isn't a drop of oil anywhere in korea. And I gotta say valium and viagra sell pretty well worldwide, not sure you can really blame the war for that.

I was watching this CNN undercover report on it, the "pharmacies" handing them out are selling them like hotcakes (if the analogy actually held relevance). Damn, I wish I could remember the numbers but there's an extremely high and disproportionate amount of them using. Plus I saw several interviews with Iraqi men who said their nerves are just shot.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

They're extremists who want to restore the "real" Islam, and yes, they do it by killing those who claim to be muslim, but are not "real" muslims. This is purely a muslim thing, and is isolated to the middle-east and Egypt. they do not like the US, of course, but that is not part of their cause. They only want to get rid of the westernized society in THEIR Islamic countries. And, by the way, they are not highly organized. And the argument you have for the Koran, I believe, is exaggerated. It's more of the idea of getting rid of all fake muslims; those who claim to be muslim, but are not... corrupt muslims, in otherwords. That is who they believe they can kill with justice in the name of Islam.


I just thought I'd mention that if these extremists believe they are justified by the Koran in these actions, they are quite wrong. I read a passage from the Koran that explicitly stated (by Muhammad himself) "You must never kill a muslim. To kill another muslim is to kill us all". Now I'm sure these assholes justify it by declaring muslims "not real muslims", but in reality they can't justify their bullshit.

Friggin' hell it's frustrating how no matter what rules you lay down, somebody can rationalize breaking them completely.

[medicinal]

Torog, I see your patriotism and a wee bit of patriotism is all-right. It is when it is blinded by brainwash that it becomes a hindrance. Because someone does not support the "mission", or the president or the regime of cowardly individuals that are setting our foriegn policy, does not make them traitors. In fact the founding fathers had to break with British rule because it was also tainted. To say you are a patriot then blindly believe in the illegal war and all that it entails pretty much says your patriotism is skewed. Yeah I served during Viet Nam, never had to kill anyone (Thank God) but I immediately became aware of what a clusterfuck it was and was definently against it all the way. You can be a patriot and disagree with the people running things, especially when they are wrong. they were wrong in Nam and they are wrong here in Iraq. So please don't label me as a traitor. If the enemy (Whomever that may be) were marching down my streets, I would immediately join the insurgency, just as the Iraqi people have. That would make me a patriot.

[Psycho4Bud]

Now I'm sure these assholes justify it by declaring muslims "not real muslims", but in reality they can't justify their bullshit.

The term "Muslim" is way to vague when discussing this. Justification relates to the factions of the religion. Not to mention the others that are considered to side with the "infidels". LOL
What Is the Difference Between Sunni and Shiite Muslims--and Why Does It Matter? (http://hnn.us/articles/934.html)

Have a good one!:s4:

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

Hahaha usually I don't agree with most of the pics and stuff Torog posts but that saving Europe's ass one is fucking great! :thumbsup:

[Psycho4Bud]

If the enemy (Whomever that may be) were marching down my streets, I would immediately join the insurgency, just as the Iraqi people have. That would make me a patriot.

The enemy marched on our soil and gave a kick in the nuts on 9-11.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Markass]

Like they say...instead of sending them the best armor so they can go out and get killed with the best armor, bring them home, out of harms way ALIVE and to their families.

[psychocat]

Hahaha usually I don't agree with most of the pics and stuff Torog posts but that saving Europe's ass one is fucking great! :thumbsup:


Got some real bad news for you.
America joined the war in Europe when it was almost over.
Hitler lost the war because of his stupidity, he made the same mistake as Napoleon , he attacked the Russians in winter.
The Battle of Britain was an important turning point during WW II because it stopped invasion plans that would have seen the last safe European haven (Britain) fall into German hands.
How many Americans took part in the Battle of Britain ??? ONE !
When they did eventualy turn up the Americans managed to make a complete farce out of thier part in what was the largest allied attempt to get a foothold in Europe. Research the debacle that was Omaha beach.

The Loan Lease agreement was Americas blackmail of Europe which was the only reason the Americans got involved in the first place.

[andruejaysin]

Plus I saw several interviews with Iraqi men who said their nerves are just shot.It's 130 degrees, there's no weed, the women don't fuck, and everything explodes. So yeah, nerves are probably shot to shit.

[yokinazu]

back to the marines. when i came back from iraq we had one lay over and wernt even allowed off the plane. why? well the reason was simple the airport did not clear a terminal for a couple hundred armed soldiers to be in. when an aircraft would land at an airport with soldiers on board they have to submit the proper paper work to allow them to disembark into the airport. yes they had no explosives or ammunition but they were still armed. in my case i had an m-16 and an m-1911 (.45 cal pistol for the uninformed). the airport did not do this for politcal reasons but because some desk jockey failed to submit the proper paper work. the airport did what was right in their eyes to protect the civilians in the airport. you have to isolate the soldiers at an airport. not doing so gives the oppurtunity for military weopns to fall into the wrong hands. would it be better to inconvience a couple hundered soldiers or have a couple hundred civilias killed in a highjacking because some asshole decided to steal a pistol and highjack a plane? if this were more than an isolated incident i would say yes this was a liberal politial moved but it sounds more like the lazyness of some wanna be remf (rear esciallon mother f*cker).

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

yokinazu I don't understnad, why would you guys be carrying M-16's, even empty ones, while flying back home?

[MajesticWhelk]

The enemy marched on our soil and gave a kick in the nuts on 9-11.

Have a good one!:s4:

The enemies that marched on our soil are now dead.

Those responsible for the actions of those enemies are an organization known as Al Qaeda and NOT the Iraqi government or its peoples. A good portion of Al Qaeda is either in hiding or dead at this point, and they were mostly being supported by the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, which we took care of pretty quickly and efficiently. There is absolutely NO conclusive evidence that Iraq had ANYTHING to do with 9-11. Sure, they might be harboring certain members of terrorist organizations, but at this point, what country in the middle east is not? Just because a country has potential terrorists within its borders does not make that country a threat to America (especially a threat great enough to go and sacrifice AMERICAN lives). If we wanted to look at it that way, we should invade every country in the middle east, most countries Europe (Britain, Spain, etc.) and even our own! Just because the government of certain middle eastern countries aren't waging an all out war on potential terrorists to the point where they sacrifice basic human rights protected by their constitution (Patriot Act, anyone?) doesn't mean that they themselves are terrorists.

Also, as you can probably see, radical Muslims deal harsh blows to those that they believe are traitors. If you were a leader of a Muslim country which is already an extremely dangerous place on the fence of anarchy, would you wage a war on your own people and their beliefs? NO! The repercussions would be incredibly severe and would probably result in your own death. This is not a wise move for a Middle Eastern dictator.

I am not saying Saddam Hussein or his regime was a good one. I know he was a vicious leader and his track record is by no means spotless, but if we had never invaded Iraq, life in the USA would be THE SAME OR BETTER. Maybe if we hadn't been so quick to wage a war on ANYONE with an opinion other than our own, then there would be a global feeling of sympathy towards the US instead of global (Muslim and non-Muslim) feeling of disapproval and resentment. We are doing the same thing that radical Muslims are doing (smothering those who do not align with our beliefs) but we are doing it with nice shiny armor and old men in suits telling us that its acceptable given our circumstances (and Muslims have the same argument).

I am not going to be quick to the draw and say that this war was about oil, or about Dubyah avenging his father's loss in Iraq, but I am going to say this: this war is unnecessary and is causing more harm (globally, not just in the USA) than good.

My best friend went to Iraq over this. He never came back. I had known him for 17 years. HE DID NOT NEED TO DIE FOR THIS! MOTHERS DO NOT NEED TO LOSE THEIR CHILDREN OVER THE IGNORANCE OF OUR LEADERSHIP! I DID NOT NEED TO LOSE MY FRIEND OVER THE "LIBERATION" OF A COUNTRY THAT DID NOT WANT TO BE LIBERATED! IT IS NOT OUR BUSINESS AND WILL NOT BE OUR BUSINESS UNTIL IRAQI'S MARCH THROUGH OUR STREETS!

Do not call me unpatriotic. I LOVE the concept of the United States, and I am proud to call myself an American, but there is a bold line between our values and our actions. Our current government is not representative of the principles on which this country was founded. Nowhere in the constitution does it say "Americans must be heroes and consider the business of all others their own."

I have much more to say but I feel this is sufficient. That's my two cents.

[psychocat]

Extremely well put man ! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Forwhat420]

Soldiers carry weapons back on the plane because this is who the weapon is issued to. Therefore no one is responsible for there weapon but that individual soldier. So until that weapon is turned back in, it goes anywhere that soldier goes. How do I know? Because i carried mine back in 2003!!!! Somebody asked this i dont remeber who.

[Forwhat420]

^ that

[psychocat]

Soldiers carry weapons back on the plane because this is who the weapon is issued to. Therefore no one is responsible for there weapon but that individual soldier. So until that weapon is turned back in, it goes anywhere that soldier goes. How do I know? Because i carried mine back in 2003!!!! Somebody asked this i dont remeber who.

LOL You eat with it ,sleep with it and treat it well, dropping or not keeping said weapon clean is always going to be punished severely. I know the drill :)

[Forwhat420]

thats right ^

[yokinazu]

you have to sign out your weopon or weopons from the armoury. you are responsible for keeping and returning said weopon. i actually at one time had 5 i was resposible for, m-16 , .45 pstol , m-240 machine gun (7.62 mm) and an m-2 .50 cal machne gun , plus my bayonet. not to mention things like night sights ,binos etc. all of wich i was responsible to maintain. some things were put on the tank and signed over to some one else wich became their responsiblity but not personal weopons i.e. m-16 and .45. i had to buy the army a new bayonet because i broke mine

[Torog]

you have to sign out your weopon or weopons from the armoury. you are responsible for keeping and returning said weopon. i actually at one time had 5 i was resposible for, m-16 , .45 pstol , m-240 machine gun (7.62 mm) and an m-2 .50 cal machne gun , plus my bayonet. not to mention things like night sights ,binos etc. all of wich i was responsible to maintain. some things were put on the tank and signed over to some one else wich became their responsiblity but not personal weopons i.e. m-16 and .45. i had to buy the army a new bayonet because i broke mine

Howdy yokinazu,

Thanx for yer service :)

Now then..I reckon that yer right about the idiot behind the desk,but this has happened more than once at Oakland and that there desk jockey needs to be fired and maybe his manager too.

Another bone that I would like to pick,is that it is highly unlikely,that anyone-even a muslim jihadist,would be able to take a weapon from a Marine or anyone else trained in combat and not only that-but have a supply of correct ammo to use in any given weapon..and not only that-but be wandering around near a group of soldiers carrying empty weapons..especially if they are in the security area.

This is a crazy,bass-ackwards,pc policy and if we can't trust our soldiers to retain their weapons..then who can we trust ?

It dang sure ain't the liberals who are scared of guns !

I wish that you could have come back to the States through Dallas/Ft.Worth airport..not only would y'all have been properly disembarked,but treated like the heroes that y'all are.

Have a good one ! :jointsmile:

[Psycho4Bud]

MajesticWhelk, MUCH respect to your friend and his/her family! Fact is though, we all know that there is Al-Quada in Iraq and untill they are able to kick ass on their own we need to be there for the assist.

Have a good one!:s4:

[yokinazu]

it is highly unlikly that some one would take a soldiers weopon but the possibility is there.just a single moment of in-attention is all it takes. and ammo well if someone is holdig a pistol to the pilots head i dont think he will notice that it has no bullets. i think in all actuallity he will assume that the weopon is loaded.

i am a liberal and i do not agree with many of the things gon on. so please remember that just because some of us are wack jobs they dont speak for all. just like there are wacko conservatives and i know they donot speak for all conservatives.

this may be a screwed up situation in iraq, i may not agree with bush and his policies, but the soldiers need and should be given respect.

no one prays for peace more than the soldier.

[psychocat]

There is no way in hell you are taking a weapon from a trained soldier without him noticing IMO , I have never lost a weapon and I've carried enough of them. Returning to a civilian base you are required to empty your weapon and hand in the mags and rounds.

[yokinazu]

like i said it is highly unlikely to get asoldiers weopon but the possibility exists.

i never lost custody of a weopon either but i have run into some dumbasses in my time

also like i said if you hold a pistol to the back of a persons head they are goin to assume it is loaded

notice im not saying it will happen im just saying it is possible

airport rules are no weopons among civilians to eliminate that possibility

we thought it would be highly unlikly that a group of terrorist could highjack 4 planes destroy the world trade center and damage the pentagon all in the same day. but it was possible at it beame reality

[Forwhat420]

why do all us vets smoke??????LOL... I just built a home made vap and it was cool.... just to get on a better subject. Like someone said on here before LET THE OLD MEN WHO CREATE THE WARS FIGHT THE WARS. WE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE ENEMYS. But what happens when are forces are streched so thin that we dont have protection in our own country because all major bases are ownly operating at only about 30% full force right now?

[yokinazu]

a little somethig i forgot
thank you for the appreciation

[Torog]

a little somethig i forgot
thank you for the appreciation

Howdy yokinazu,

I understand where yer comin from,but I still think that our troops should be treated with the utmost respect and it pisses me off when liberals act like they can't trust our own soldiers. :mad:

I'm a Navy vet myself and I reckon that it's hard for me to understand how liberals see us as the enemy and look the other way,when jihadists committ terrible atrocities against our troops and civilians,every day.

Have a good one ! :jointsmile:

[yokinazu]

i am liberal. it pisses me off all the bad press we get. not all liberals hate soldiers just the ones we consider wack jobs. when i say we i mean other liberals. for instance i dont believein some animal testing but i also dont want me or my daughter to become the guinea pig. just like i know you dont beleive in abortion but i dont think you are goin to go fire bomb a planned parent hood clinic. it may be the lesser of 2 eils to kill the abortion doctor but choosing the lesser of 2 evils is still choosing evil. i believe in racial profiling. it is a fact that the terrorist we have to worry about are mostly from the middle east so why not look at these guys a little closer than billy joe from kentucky. just keep in mind that most of what you see in the news represents the liberals that would put spikes in a tree to stop logging. most of us bleive in peaceful protest not violent action. im also not goin to try and turn people into liberals, its the conservatives that keep the far left in check

when i came home from iraq i was given a very warm welcome and i live in one of the most liberal vilages in the US. a place where protesters threw red paint on a building because they were goin to cut down a tree.

it also pisses me off hat some people will condem a soldier for trying to protect them. but it also pisses me off that our goverment will put these fine young men and women in harms way to promote an idea that not everyone in the world beleives in. i will take my anger out on the goverment not the soldier. every soldier sailer marine and airman is my bother in arms and it hurts when anyone of them is injured or killed. i pray every day for their safe and speedy return. but i also know that,contrary to what many liberals say, we can not just up and leave iraq. that could absolutly be the worst thing we could ever do or have done.

and thank you for your service

one more thing:
q:why do the navy guys keep reenlisting?
a: they dont want to leave their buddies behind.

that was a joe and i hope you can take it in the light hearted manner it was meant and not as a slur

[MajesticWhelk]

MajesticWhelk, MUCH respect to your friend and his/her family! Fact is though, we all know that there is Al-Quada in Iraq and untill they are able to kick ass on their own we need to be there for the assist.

Have a good one!:s4:

I understand that there is Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Al-Qaeda was not lashing out against Iraqi people until we got involved, so we actually made things worse for them.

Also, if you really want to think about it that way, there is Al-Qaeda in Britain, Spain, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Israel, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, South America, Central America, Asia, etc etc etc. We are not and should not be invading these countries just because they have members of these groups within their borders. There is actually a pretty good chance that members of Al-Qaeda are in the United States as we speak!

The thing about Al-Qaeda is that it is not an enemy that we can really fight with an army. They act, dress, and blend in perfectly with their surroundings, and until they explode and kill a crowd of innocent people, they look just like civilians! That is the reason that so many innocent Iraqi's are being slaughtered by trigger-happy Americans. It is not because we're evil and like killing people, it is because you can't tell one from the other, and it is almost pointless to try and sift them out. They do not wear uniforms and they do not have public meetings. We should be focusing on the head of the organization, not its tails. Going after individual Al-Qaeda operatives is like going after kids who shoot up their schools; you can't tell who they are until its too late. Honestly, the violence would be almost guaranteed to dissipate if an American presence was not in Iraq. And if you really want to analyze it, our being there can only end up in a loss for us. Their system of beliefs makes those who die fighting us "martyrs" and it is an HONOR for them to die for the cause. In our case, we mourn and feel sorrow for every one of our friends/family that we lose out there. They are not only getting the satisfaction of killing our men, but they get to see us suffering because of it, and their losses are not only intentional, but in their belief system inevitable. It is a win-win situation for them and us being there is only strengthening their resolve.

Oh, and I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but if you think back to 2003 when this war started, this war was neither about 9-11 or the presence of Al-Qaeda. This war was about weapons of mass destruction, of which there never was and still isn't any evidence of whatsoever. Once we got there it shifted to being about replacing this terrible dictator's evil regime. Then, it turned into us fighting Al-Qaeda. Who knows what they'll think of next.

This war has a faulty foundation and we're running out of excuses. And as an additional note (this isn't directed towards you, Psycho), for all of you out there who are so quick to label those who value peace as "hippie liberal pussies," I could just as easily label you as "Bible-Hugging inbreeding hicks." So stop name calling and be more articulate in your description of those who have a different opinion than your own.

Thanks for hearing me out guys.

MW

[andruejaysin]

I understand that there is Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Al-Qaeda was not lashing out against Iraqi people until we got involved, so we actually made things worse for them.

Also, if you really want to think about it that way, there is Al-Qaeda in Britain, Spain, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Israel, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, South America, Central America, Asia, etc etc etc. We are not and should not be invading these countries just because they have members of these groups within their borders. There is actually a pretty good chance that members of Al-Qaeda are in the United States as we speak!

The thing about Al-Qaeda is that it is not an enemy that we can really fight with an army. They act, dress, and blend in perfectly with their surroundings, and until they explode and kill a crowd of innocent people, they look just like civilians! That is the reason that so many innocent Iraqi's are being slaughtered by trigger-happy Americans. It is not because we're evil and like killing people, it is because you can't tell one from the other, and it is almost pointless to try and sift them out. They do not wear uniforms and they do not have public meetings. We should be focusing on the head of the organization, not its tails. Going after individual Al-Qaeda operatives is like going after kids who shoot up their schools; you can't tell who they are until its too late. Honestly, the violence would be almost guaranteed to dissipate if an American presence was not in Iraq. And if you really want to analyze it, our being there can only end up in a loss for us. Their system of beliefs makes those who die fighting us "martyrs" and it is an HONOR for them to die for the cause. In our case, we mourn and feel sorrow for every one of our friends/family that we lose out there. They are not only getting the satisfaction of killing our men, but they get to see us suffering because of it, and their losses are not only intentional, but in their belief system inevitable. It is a win-win situation for them and us being there is only strengthening their resolve.

Oh, and I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but if you think back to 2003 when this war started, this war was neither about 9-11 or the presence of Al-Qaeda. This war was about weapons of mass destruction, of which there never was and still isn't any evidence of whatsoever. Once we got there it shifted to being about replacing this terrible dictator's evil regime. Then, it turned into us fighting Al-Qaeda. Who knows what they'll think of next.

This war has a faulty foundation and we're running out of excuses. And as an additional note (this isn't directed towards you, Psycho), for all of you out there who are so quick to label those who value peace as "hippie liberal pussies," I could just as easily label you as "Bible-Hugging inbreeding hicks." So stop name calling and be more articulate in your description of those who have a different opinion than your own.

Thanks for hearing me out guys.

MWRational arguements are wasted on bible-hugging inbreeding hicks.;)

[Anubis10012007]

Howdy Gandalf,

Well I suppose that ya could be right as far as support for the troops goes,but clearly-not the mission.

As you know,I fully support the mission,not just the troops.

This whole mess has been brewing since the '79 hostage crisis in Iran,if not since the inception of Islam.

Those who don't support the mission,are willfully turning a blind eye to the fact that muslim-jihadists are committing some of the most horrific acts of brutality ever witnessed in modern history..because the koran orders all muslims to aid in the dissolving of all non-muslim goverments and the death and subjugation of all non-muslims.

Have a good one ...War is tragic for both sides man. There really are no winners or losers in the long run.

This did not just start with the Iranian Revolution in 79'. This goes back really with the Crusades, and these young people in the Muslim world I think are believing that this is a repeat of that time period. They see the US as an imperial power. It is if America is the British Empire. The British had ships, but we have mastery of the skies now with our advanced jets.

Did you know that Iraq was one of the most developed societies in science and art in the world during the Middle Ages? Most Americans only think of Europe having been able to dominate and wield power. They are not the killers we now imagine them to be.
That is mainly based on propaganda from more conservative leaning newspapers and FOX.

[medicinal]

Soldiers carry weapons back on the plane because this is who the weapon is issued to. Therefore no one is responsible for there weapon but that individual soldier. So until that weapon is turned back in, it goes anywhere that soldier goes. How do I know? Because i carried mine back in 2003!!!! Somebody asked this i dont remeber who.

I second that: your weapon is issued at your home base and that weapon is yours unless you are assigned to another unit at which time you turn in your weapon and recieve another one at your new site. Even clerks are assigned a weapon because you are a fighting man first and an assigned worker second. Loss of a weapon usually means a courts martial. That weapon goes with you wherever you go untill you can safely store it in the armory at your home base. Even then, you usually have to clean it at least once a month.

[Torog]

Howdy yokinazu,

Lmao..that was a pretty funny joke ! :D

Well daggum,not only did ya have the spine to enlist,but ya have the guts to call yerself a liberal..I got even more respect for ya ! :thumbsup:

Those who want us to drop Iraq like a hot potato,don't have the common sense to realize that the front-lines will shift from Iraq,to here..and that several arab countrie actually oppose Iranian control of Iraq and the region and they are willing to go to war against Iran too..that would make things even worse than they are now.

I hope that ya realize,that when I castigate liberals,it ain't the ones like you,who answered the call of duty and served,it's the whack jobs that ya mentioned,who're the problem..and yer right that most Christians would never bomb a clinic or murder the abortionist..there are some whacky ones that would though,but they are the minority.

Thanx for yer kind words :)

Have a good one ! :jointsmile:

[yokinazu]

hiya trog
i also used to support the aclu but they really been pissin me off latly especially with the whole immagration issue, im also not a christian but i think its wrong to take the ten commandments down. always seemed some pretty wise words to me. dont get me wrong i do beleive in god i just dont beleive in the church.

a little snippet for you, almost 50% of school age children think we fought ww2 against russia and we were allied with germany.

im not a racist but when my daughter wasin the third grade i pointed at a picture of george washington and asked who he was, her response was thats the guy on the 1 dollar bill. when i did the same with abe lincoln same response. but when i showed her a pic of martin luther king jr. she knew exactly who he was. we realy need to get back to basics. i have nothing but respect for mlk jr he was a man who had the guts to stand up for his and his peoples rights and we could benifit with more folks like him. but theres somthin wrong in our system when a school cant even hang pics of the founding fathers or say the pledge of allegiance. our children are learnig in a politicaly correct school system.

any way this is all for a different thread and completly off the issue here so ill quit rantin