The Church and Sexual Repression.

[JaggedEdge]

Why are most religions so insistent on repressing natural, sexual urges? All throughout my Catholic Schooling I was taught masturbation was wrong. Worse than wrong, it's a mortal sin which will only be forgiven after confessing my sin to a priest. I was told, like many children, masturbation could lead to blindness and several other dreadful results, including eternal damnation. My Catholic Mother and Grandparents, also felt the need to discuss the "dangers" of masturbation. I have to say, I feel a bit betrayed by them.

As a teenager, like most teenage boys, I inevitably touched myself once a night until I climaxed, and as always, immediately regretted it. I would apologize to that man in the sky, and would lay there wondering if I would ever make it into heaven. It was a serious concern of mine, I committed a mortal sin nearly every night, and although I would confess it regularly, I had other skeletons in my closet. I had inevitably thought of some of my female schoolmates while doing it, which is a sin in and of itself.

Obviously, I shouldn't have felt any shame in what I was doing, there is nothing unnatural about it. But I did. It had been instilled in me for so long, I thought what I was doing was truly wrong. I constantly had this burden on my shoulders due to something I couldn't control, all because I was taught it was a horrible thing, and I would be punished for it.

Aside from the teachings above, Christians, Jews, and several other religions believe in circumcision. By cutting the foreskin, it is decreasing sexual sensation for the rest of the child's life. Again, I feel betrayed. By no will of my own, I will be unable to experience the full pleasure of sex. Granted, I am not incapable of enjoying it, in fact I love it very much. None-the-less, had I not been snipped, before I were old enough to make the decision for myself, their would be far more pleasure nerves in that area than currently exist.

The argument, "it's for health reasons," holds little weight.

On top of the above, the Catholic Church requires it's priests remain celibate and have determined the use of any contraceptive (aside from planned parent hood) as a tool for murder.

Clearly, teaching children these things is not good for their mental health. It makes them feel like horrible people, simply for submitting to a natural urge.

Why does the church feel the need to torture young children with impossible laws? What good can possibly come from this sexual repression?

Nothing in my opinion, and it is simply one of the reason's I despise organized religion.

I apologize for any typos, The Office is on and I really want to watch it.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

i just couldn't help myself. is that a sin too?
damn it. i tried, but i'm quite inept tonight.:o

[birdgirl73]

Thanks for this topic, Jagged. I think it's a good one--and an important discussion to have.

I did a couple of papers on this very topic when I was studying humanities in graduate school. I've always found the religious opposition to carnal pleasure troubling and fascinating. From what I recall, it has its earliest roots--at least the ones we get our heritage from--from a few early Greek thinkers who believed self-denial was important and a sign of discipline. The earliest Christians, of course, got their philosophic start in the Greco-Roman empire, and so they had incorporated many of those same attitudes. The Old Testament is full of opposition to what it termed whoredom and fornication. And our earliest religious scholars and popes essentially believed sex and sin were the same thing. Paul, for instance, was a big proponent of celibacy for Christians. Makes no sense, does it, when you think about how early Christians had to fight to increase "market share" back when the world was against them. To do right by their religion, they had to deny themselves pleasure and have celibacy as their goal. Yet they also needed to produce offspring to have the forces of good triumph over evil.

I find it interesting that the three main Western religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, all share the sexual repression tradition. Yet neo-Pagan religions tend to be more positive about sexuality and consider it very matter-of-factly. Makes no sense to me, really.

A couple of my first boyfriends were raised in staunchly Catholic homes. They both had the same experience you did, Jagged. I'd have considered getting serious about one of them, but he had such conflicted and hung-up feelings about sexuality that it really got in his way. He even felt guilty about making out/petting. I had to go find myself a comfortably lusty man. I think some of the non-fundamentalist modern Christian sects are trying to do a better job of embracing sexuality these days, at least in some forms, but most of them have a long, long way to go. I'm glad I was raised a free-thinking Unitarian! (Thanks, Mom and Dad!)

[andruejaysin]

Everyone likes sex, therefore everyone is a sinner who needs the church to save them from eternal damnation. Great marketing ploy.

[snicklefritz1825]

It is all who raised you. I was raised in a christian family not catholic but christian. And nobody told me it was sin, we just didn't talk about it. The only thing my mom told me was respect your body. Both my brother and I masterbated and felt it was natural.

[JaggedEdge]

I was reading a passage in the book I mentioned in the other thread and it really got me thinking about my own child hood. The circumcision aspect really got me thinking. Luckily for me, at around 16-17 a began realizing things just didn't add up. The guilt subsided and I was able to freely explore sex without the threat of fire and brimstone. So luckily, it really didn't play an aspect in my relationships the way it did with some of the guys you knew BG. My fear of women did it. haha.

It's almost like it's a game, to see how taboo they can make normal sex acts. I was always taught priests are expected to remain celibate because loving a woman intimately would detract from their loving relationship with god. Moving pedo priests around so they don't get caught is o.k., but screwing a hooker is strictly forbidden. The hypocrisy of it all.

I also learned in "god is not Great," that there were several babies in NY that contracted the herpes virus from a moil (can't find the correct spelling) how followed an ancient Jewish tradition where the sucks on the circumcision wound.

That isn't really in relation to this post, but I just remembered that and thought it was interesting.

My mind feels like scrambled eggs right now...

[JaggedEdge]

It is all who raised you. I was raised in a christian family not catholic but christian. And nobody told me it was sin, we just didn't talk about it. The only thing my mom told me was respect your body. Both my brother and I masterbated and felt it was natural.

Yes, but it is being taught in schools. Catholic Schools are very prevalent in my area, from kindergarten to 12th grade. Private education is really the only solid education around here. There are Baptist, Catholic, Non-Denominational Christian, etc. All with private schools that provide a good education, and religion class every day. Even in areas were the public school system is decent, there are still Catholic Schools, or Baptist.

My point is, more children are being taught the same things I were, and in some cases, more extreme views.

I'm glad your parent's weren't over zealousness Christians, but there are plenty out there that are. My dad was much more mellow, he told me there was nothing wrong with it, but I only saw him a few times a year so it didn't have as much influence as my schools and other family.

[birdgirl73]

Moving pedo priests around so they don't get caught is o.k., but screwing a hooker is strictly forbidden. The hypocrisy of it all.

I also learned in "god is not Great," that there were several babies in NY that contracted the herpes virus from a moil (can't find the correct spelling) how followed an ancient Jewish tradition where the sucks on the circumcision wound.

Yep, the hypocrisy of that is incredible, isn't it?

That'd be a môhel, sweetie.

Glad to hear you managed to overcome the repression on your own after realizing it didn't add up. I hope we didn't come off as repressive to our son. Now that I think about it, we've been far more likely to repress organized religion in this home, despite the fact that we have had memberships in both a Unitarian fellowship and a very liberal Presbyterian church in this area. Our sonwasn't forced to go with us unless he wanted to, which he usually did, but it was very important to us not to be supporting denominations that would be giving him exposure to the idea that homosexuality or any other type of consensual adult sexuality was wrong or sinful. I have to confess that I tried to impart the idea that promiscuity isn't a great thing, but my feelings on that have a lot more to do with self-esteem reasons and disease and pregnancy prevention than with religious morality. I don't kid myself about his chastity, either alone or with young ladies. He's a healthy 21-year-old. I just don't want to be a grandmother before my time. . . .

[couch-potato]

From Genesis:

30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave.
31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth.
32 Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father."
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father."
35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
36 So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father.
37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab ; he is the father of the Moabites of today.
38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi ; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.

[THClord]

I am so glad my family is atheist. Way less bullshit to deal with.

[beachguy in thongs]

I'm Roman Catholic and my sexual life is so suppressed that my mother once hooked me up with a sixteen year-old, while I was in my twenties, who I slept with on the second date.

[HighTillIDie]

...watch the video in my sig



and the easy answer is if people found out the true nature of human sexuality, it would directly conflict with most things taught by religous institutions...

they have to distance of from nature, to further control us

sad thing is... i'm not a paranoid person :weird:

[action.420]

Just one of the many reasons I find organized religion to be complete and utter bullshit. There's no need for it.

[jdmarcus59]

as a well read christian, do I think you will go to hell for um...spanking the monkey?
NO, no you wont.

[Mohksha]

It is certainly an interesting topic, sexuality and religion. I grew up Southern Baptist so I know exactly what you went through. Luckily, at 16 I had an epiphany and one day I saw every contradiction and lie ever told me. This all happened within an hour long think session. I felt betrayed and decided that if I ever have kids, they will never have to deal with that crap unless they want to. On a side note, it's also bullshit that they teach these Christian values in public school. Keep wanking everyone!

[JaggedEdge]

It is certainly an interesting topic, sexuality and religion. I grew up Southern Baptist so I know exactly what you went through. Luckily, at 16 I had an epiphany and one day I saw every contradiction and lie ever told me. This all happened within an hour long think session. I felt betrayed and decided that if I ever have kids, they will never have to deal with that crap unless they want to. On a side note, it's also bullshit that they teach these Christian values in public school. Keep wanking everyone!

Mine was a slower process, but I also felt very betrayed. I personally don't want children, but if the unfortunate happened, I wouldn't mention anything about religion until they started asking questions.


beachguy
I'm Roman Catholic and my sexual life is so suppressed that my mother once hooked me up with a sixteen year-old, while I was in my twenties, who I slept with on the second date.

Thats not being open to human sexuality, it's statutory rape.

[THClord]

epiphany? me too.
But it wasn't about religous bullshit but all sorts of other bullshit I believed.

It was like the 3rd time I got high when I had this epiphany.

[beachguy in thongs]

Mine was a slower process, but I also felt very betrayed. I personally don't want children, but if the unfortunate happened, I wouldn't mention anything about religion until they started asking questions.



Thats not being open to human sexuality, it's statutory rape.

Technically, yes.

Tall, hot blond, half-Cherokee Indian, half-German, working waitress, dark brown eyes, and, I never said when the second date was.

[JaggedEdge]

Technically, yes.

Tall, hot blond, half-Cherokee Indian, half-German, working waitress, dark brown eyes, and, I never said when the second date was.

Lol, I wasn't judging, I was trying my hand at dry humor.

[krazy chino]

when i started havin sex i was like 14-15 i did it only with what we call "hoes" never a girlfriend...now i'm 18 and making love to my girlfriend a lot....i don't feel any guilt like the way i did when i did those random girls at parties.....by the way i was raised in a christian home...i've been told that premaritial sex (idk how to spell that means sex before marriage) was a sin and i'll go to hell.....but i don't think its bad at all makin love with the one U truly love i mean God made it.....sex is good for the body also so were doin no harm to anyone....

[beachguy in thongs]

Lol, I wasn't judging, I was trying my hand at dry humor.

I really meant, "Hysterically, yes." Not technically.

[napolitana869]

This is an interesting topic to me because I want to do research on human sexuality after I'm done with school. Coincidentally, I'm reading about child sexual development right now, and how a repressive upbringing can cause serious issues for an adults sexual development and relationships. It can result in serious trust issues and even make the child more vulnerable to abuse. This continues into adulthood, with the individual seeking out abusive relationships because they see that as the norm.
As for myself, I was raised in a very religious family who held very firm and unrealistic beliefs about what was appropriate and inappropriate sexual activity. I was taught that anything aside from kissing was wrong before marriage. Because of this I was left very uninformed when I was trying to figure things out during my adolescence. I didnt have anyone to turn to or ask questions of because I knew that I would be judged harshly as an immoral sinner. As a result I was in an abusive relationship and was easily taken advantage of. I still have serious trust and body image issues, which have a very detrimental effect on my current relationship.

[angry nomad]

I was reading a passage in the book I mentioned in the other thread and it really got me thinking about my own child hood. The circumcision aspect really got me thinking. Luckily for me, at around 16-17 a began realizing things just didn't add up. The guilt subsided and I was able to freely explore sex without the threat of fire and brimstone. So luckily, it really didn't play an aspect in my relationships the way it did with some of the guys you knew BG. My fear of women did it. haha.

It's almost like it's a game, to see how taboo they can make normal sex acts. I was always taught priests are expected to remain celibate because loving a woman intimately would detract from their loving relationship with god. Moving pedo priests around so they don't get caught is o.k., but screwing a hooker is strictly forbidden. The hypocrisy of it all.

I also learned in "god is not Great," that there were several babies in NY that contracted the herpes virus from a moil (can't find the correct spelling) how followed an ancient Jewish tradition where the sucks on the circumcision wound.

That isn't really in relation to this post, but I just remembered that and thought it was interesting.

My mind feels like scrambled eggs right now...

Please explain the part in bold. I guess your brain was on drugs on that moment due to the poor grammar.

[angry nomad]

as a well read christian, do I think you will go to hell for um...spanking the monkey?
NO, no you wont.

Well, that is what is taught irregardless of the fact the Bible does not mention masturbation.

Here is my story of Christian extremism.

YouTube - Re: Jesus Camp Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ6-9UpeAQM)

[Nailhead]

Why are most religions so insistent on repressing natural, sexual urges?

has nothing to do with religion at all, but with human nature. Humans naturally want to control and dominate over other humans. Religions are just the most popular forms of control humans use on one another.

Take Christianity for example, it doesn't clearly say in the bible sex is evil, so why do so many Christians think so? Because their parents taught them so, and it just follows down the line. Really has nothing to do at all with religion, but more about parents afraid of talking to their kids about sex, that's really what it's about. They don't trust them enough so they use the fear of hell to scare them into doing what they want them to do, which is, not have sex until they are married.

[beachguy in thongs]

Maybe, you are supposed to look for love and pleasure, not find it within.

You know the famous word of the Potheads: Share.

[angry nomad]

has nothing to do with religion at all, but with human nature. Humans naturally want to control and dominate over other humans. Religions are just the most popular forms of control humans use on one another.

Take Christianity for example, it doesn't clearly say in the bible sex is evil, so why do so many Christians think so? Because their parents taught them so, and it just follows down the line. Really has nothing to do at all with religion, but more about parents afraid of talking to their kids about sex, that's really what it's about. They don't trust them enough so they use the fear of hell to scare them into doing what they want them to do, which is, not have sex until they are married.

Kill Gays
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill adulterers
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Burn her to death
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

And the man she had sex with has to...Oh, it's not a sin for a man to fornicate only for women.

Kill women who are not virgins on their wedding night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

But if she broke her hymen through exercise or masturbation, I guess she is screwed. Wait, not screwed, stoned. The kind where they throw rocks at you until you die.

God punishes gays
26For this reason God gave them over and abandoned them to vile affections and degrading passions. For their women exchanged their natural function for an unnatural and abnormal one,
27And the men also turned from natural relations with women and were set ablaze (burning out, consumed) with lust for one another--men committing shameful acts with men and suffering in their own [a]bodies and personalities the inevitable consequences and penalty of their wrong-doing and going astray, which was [their] fitting retribution.
Romans 1:26-27 (AMP)

Horny for women? going to hell
27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery. 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Matthew 5:27-29 (NIV)

Gays go to hell
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9,10 (NKJV)

Penalty for rape: a fine
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

Death for not screaming while getting raped
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife.
(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

Hey, "God" said it, not me.

One more thing, with all the laws written in the Bible with some really obscure specific things (there is a law saying you cannot eat any insects except for katydids, locusts, grasshoppers), I have not found one against molesting children. I guess all priests go to Heaven.

[Nailhead]

^I haven't read as much of the old testament as I would have hoped...sorry, I just found part 2 a bit more interesting lol

I don't want to change the topic by suggesting Christianity has been manipulated to fit in with popular thinking, but even if Christianity didn't exist, there would be some other popular religion condemning natural human behavior, (sex).

[LuckyG]

I felt uncomfortable with my own sexuality until about a year or two ago. Going from being a kid and being told that sex and masturbation is evil and then suddenly having everyone tell you "Oh it's okay, everyone does it" can be one helluva mind job.