a light question

[sweetgreenbuds]

:smokin: ok so i just want some feed back on these enviro lites.
im thinkin of gettin 2 of the 200w as im really intregued by them after doin some readin.
I know they're cfls and most will say stick with mh/hps but apparently they have a higher lumen/watt output than other lites and the light it gives off is 100% par which is grat for plants, right??

and as they are cool running they can be placed right on top of the plants so the lumens arent lost over distance. so guess im just lookin for some feed back form people who've used them as im doin a small cabinate grow, and they sound perfect to get lots of light without the big heat build up.

as always thanks in advance for the great support
peace out:hippy:

[oldsanclem]

enviror light are just a flat CPf thats all and the net is the normal watts I think its 18 watts.
Watts is watts and thats it when it comes to cpf.
Now normal tube florsents the exposed bulb to the plant is greater do to disign.
A fulll service ballast (not wattsavor ) a full service bulb ( not wattsavor)
You would see a better responce to use full service system.
And the bottom line , if you know what your doing is
Grams/watts/ months or 1000 grams/1000 watt bulb months If you get .5 grams per watt month you doing real good. Note time is part of the division.
Hids provide a higher output per watt of usable spectrum. Noting that if someone says Blue or red spectrum which is only part of the spectrum put out by the bulb.
If you doing it to have fun go for it, but if your doing it for product , pot. its totaly your thing.
The busted for having fun is the same as growing good size plants.

[sweetgreenbuds]

ok so i was goin to go for the 2x200w but after a bit of thought i think i'll go for a 400w mh/hps but will that be to hot in my 2'x2'x8' grow cab????

[lmdesade]

If you've got 8' of height, a 400 hps is a better choice. I like farmtek cfl's for growing mums and small flowering areas. Yet, If you have that much height, there is no point in using a cfl unless you are going double decker. Don't!!!
At 100 watts of HID per square foot, you can do some amazing work.

[sweetgreenbuds]

cheers man just got a case of the noobs knees if ya know what i mean. so as it stands im buildin a 2'x2'x8' cab from mdf, mylar lined, with a 400w mh/hps. a decent vent system, änd running dwc in a large container with 4 airstones and a seperate res to help temp and ph control also fitted with a circ pump between res and main tank. im also gettin a ph meter, tds meter and a temp/humidity monitor.
was thinkin of installin a co2 system but i've spent this months hobby cash. plus i'd like to see the results without co2 first so i can see the difference if ya know what i mean.

this is only my first serious grow but i no longer things by half and am researching every item b4 purchace. i dont plan to grow for another 3 months and then only plan 2 raise 1 plant but am spending the time scouring this site and others to plan and prepare every thing so its perfect in every way then thats a fairly good place 2 start from. i know im bound to run into probs along the waybut have massive confidence thanks to this site.

so thank you all for this much so far and a masive thank you in advance for all the help ive gotten so far and the help i know i'll need and recieve in the future. any feed back or advice as always is gratefully recieved:hippy:

[Opie Yutts]

With 400 watt HID lighting you will most likely need to vent to the outdours. Also the big fans to move air will not be stealthy, if that's important to you. What about odor control?

And by the way, everything will NEVER be perfect.

[sweetgreenbuds]

cheers opie exactly the feedback i need.
stealth is of some importance but not 100% if ya know what i mean. im thinkin abouta 4" duct comin from the cab to an inline ducted fan (can i put this in a styrofoam box, 2 keep sound down?) and at you recommendation i think i'll be then routing it through a filter block and then out the window.

if my unit is completely sealed incl the air inlet and im using the carbon filter how effective could i expect my odour control to be? plus any recommendations on fan size given the size of my grow cab and allowing for maybe 6' of ducting, i saw a formula to work it out some where in here but cant remember where.

stay cool all you beautiful ppl

peace out:hippy:

[rhizome]

http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/132514-noobs-guide-growroom-set-up-work-progress.html#post1634834

[sweetgreenbuds]

hey cheers for the link rhizome v useful. according to that link a 25 cfm fam would suit but the only 1's i cam find that small are pc cooling fans and i think i'd prefer something with a bit more beef so was thinkin of something along the following lines: a carbon scrubber at least1.5' long mounted on the roof of the grow cab with the 4" pipe connected to a bath room extractor fan which, mounted on the outside of my cab is rated at 90 m3/hr which roughly works out at (ball park figure) 40cfm. i think this should work out sweet.

on another point i'm going dwc and just went down the pet store and got my air pump and am a lil concerned that i aint producing enough bubbles. the pump is rated at 73 gallons/hour (275 l/hr) if any1's had any success with dwc could ya please post and just tell me the rating of ur air pump,cheers

peace out

[sweetgreenbuds]

ok so movin into my new place sooner than expected so gonna start puttin stuff together real soon:thumbsup:. the box will be close to the window, like 8", so was thinkin of instaling a regular extractor fan in the window ducted to a carbon scrubber mounted in the roof above the light.
the light will be a 250w cfl for veg and 400w hps for flower.
i managed to pick up some serious seeds bubblegum so im bouncing with exctiement.
and the last question(well nearly) is what nutes should i get, ive heard some people rave about foxfarm as its organic (i think:smokin:) and im all for that as i hear it also yields slightly higher. but im not sure i could source this as im not in a position to order it and as it cant show up on my cc bill so might have to go with gh nutes which i know are good and available:jointsmile: sorry im rambling but what addatives should i get with which nutes im still a little vague in this area, i know to keep it basic in veg just water for first 3 weeks then 1/4 strength nutes then build to full but i'd like to give them a little kick in bloom so any comments or links'd be great

cheers guys

:joint1::Tomcat:

[Opie Yutts]

ive heard some people rave about foxfarm as its organic (i think:smokin:)

I highly reccommend Fox Farm. They are organic-based, not organic. Pretty much the same, but not quite.

[ProGroWannabe]

i'd like to give them a little kick in bloom so any comments or links'd be great

cheers guys



NO!!! Don't kick em in the blooms! J/k felt the smartass comin out in me, sorry.

Either nute choice will do you fine. As far as additives--pick your poison. All I'm using right now is Earth Juice Catalyst with me adding extra molasses. Seems to do the trick for me. Also, just in case you were wondering, there is no one-absolute-best bloom booster. Some might be better than others, but the fert competition is fierce. Good news for growers! So again, pick your poison there as well.

Keep us updated!

[sweetgreenbuds]

firstly think i'm gonna go with foxfarm nutes if i can get my hands on em:thumbsup: cheers opie

and cheers also for the heads up on the bloom booster pro gro all info shall be rewarded with pics along the way:joint1:
was just tryin to have a sneek peek in the cuboards of the pro's :D

[ProGroWannabe]

Glad to assist....:)

[sweetgreenbuds]

ok so just got the go ahead for my new place and as soon as i renovate the place im good to start.
so another few questions bouncing around in the brain:stoned: firstly, will a standard bath room extractor fan be enough to vent my grow cab through a carbon filter?
second, is a passive intake (just a sealing flap on the side) ok to use in conjunction with this.
cheers guys and may plentiful bounties be bestowed upon you all:thumbsup:

[ProGroWannabe]

Can't you get an inline for similar cost...compared to the bathroom fan? The reason I ask is all the "fart fans" that I've had to turn on (lol) were loud as hell. I would think almost any inlines would make a more manageable humming-type sound. For the record, I don't use inlines. I run dedicated a/c (since there's 1600 watts in there as of today:D).

But anyway, back to your question...unless you have one on hand already, making it free---I'd look for an inline. Most cabinets need waaaaay more ventilation than they get. Look up the image reaper, he's been runnin a cabinet for a good while. He'd be a good person to ask ventilation questions to.

Good luck!

[Opie Yutts]

Unless your grow is about 2 cubic feet, and you use one CFL, you'll want something bigger than a bathroom exhaust fan. And that's not even counting using a carbon filter. Don't even get me started on HID. And inline fans are quieter.

[sweetgreenbuds]

ok so another decision made looks like its an inline fan then so any toughts on a passive intake?
plus i know it prob belongs in another forum but i picked up some bubblegum seeds by serious seeds, any1 used these or got any feedback on them?

[ProGroWannabe]

Ideally your intake should be located in the bottom of your cab. or as near the bottom as you can get it since the air near the floor is usually a few degrees to several degrees cooler.

Serious Seeds seem to get a good rep whenever I see them mentioned. I have not ran any of their stuff. But for what its worth, whenever I decide to run AK47, it'll prolly be their's unless my grow bud has some seeds at that time;).

[Opie Yutts]

Marijuana Seeds (cannabis, pot) shipped worldwide (http://www.kindseed.com) is really good, but a little on the expensive side.

Also, Buy Marijuana Seeds and cannabis seeds from Holland - high quality marijuana seeds (cannabis seeds) (http://www.amsterdammarijuanaseeds.com/) seem real good and less expensive, but I've never ordered from there. I may try them soon.

[sweetgreenbuds]

man this shoppin list is gettin bigger. my tds meter just arrived and i tested my water.
8 4 0 p p m cant believe its that high:mad:, but such is life so guess i'm shelling out for a r.o. filter. so does any1 know where i can pick 1 of these up for a decent price and also what kind of spec do i need. cheers guys.
peace out

[ProGroWannabe]

This should do ya: Cheap Hydroponics - Discount Hydroponic Supplies, Grow Lights, Hydroponic Fertilizers, and much more - Eliminator Reverse Osmosis System - 90GPD (Powered by CubeCart) (http://cheaphydroponics.com/cart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=498)

[sweetgreenbuds]

cheers pro grow, and opie. its brilliant to have the availability to draw on the experience of others, and feel confident in doin so after reading ur previous posts. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
cant wait to start putting this together but its gonna take time as its not top priority but at least its lettin me research and lets me sort out the best set up for me to start with.....
thanks again ppl:jointsmile:

[Opie Yutts]

No problem glad to help.

[sweetgreenbuds]

ok so this 1's an opinon call i guess but said i'd just throw in the question.
im livin in an apartment block and the room i'll have my cab in has a window and on the opposite wall there's hole into a vent system which coocker hoods and bathrooms etc are vented into if ya catch my drift. it would suit my room set up better if i could vent into this duct but if you's recon this is a bad idea i could redesign and vent out the window.
in our new place i've been given 1 room (small) to have as my own. in here i intend to have a bar, my well disguised grow cab, my fish tank and all my photo's from home etc. so i'm plannin this down to the inch if ya know what i mean.
cheers guys and have a happy day:hippy:

[sweetgreenbuds]

ok so pardon the consecutive posts but its my day off and just stoned n bored:jointsmile:
so just a couple more questions. firstly, if im going for 400w hps in an air cooled reflector in my 2'x2'x8' cab should i just mount the light at the top of the cab as i will be lining it with mylar
or should i have it so my light can be lowered over the plants????
and pro gro i really appreciate the link for the ro filter but does that have to be connected to power as im running 220v where i am and i think thats all 110v as its u.s. based, i think:(
but ill look up something local, well my side of the atlantic at least:thumbsup: cheers guys

[Opie Yutts]

It is always best to keep the light as close as possible to the plants without stressing them. You can do this by raising and lowering the plants or the light or both. I'm sure 220 RO machines exist.

[ProGroWannabe]

Yeah, I'm sure there are 220 volt units made as well. And as for the venting idea, it would be fine as long as you run a carbon filter setup before it gets into that vent. Either run a 400--or so--cfm fan going into the carbon filter and exhaust hot air from the top of the cabinet with another fan, or look into a carbon filter design that would utilize an inlet/outlet on each end so you can pull air through it------>to the vent in the wall. Either way, I just wouldn't feel safe running unfiltered air into that vent.

[sweetgreenbuds]

dont know if im just fillin up a thread with useless questions or if any1 else is benefiting from this thread but i'm learning volumes along with other research so cheers guys:thumbsup:

ok so the next question is; so originally i was goin for a diy carbon scrubber(design i found on this site), but now i've decided to go with a vented reflector(which i'll prob make myself from a regular reflector as i cant get 1 local and i've access to a good workshop) so i'm thinkin i'll need an inline filter, has any1 ever made 1 out of 2 4"-6" reducers back 2 back with carbon in the 6" flanges and 4" duct on either side if ya know what i mean. guess my question is has any1 ever done anything like this or any opinions?

anyway cheers guys
peace out:hippy:

[Opie Yutts]

I haven't heard of it but that don't mean a whole bunch. Sounds feasable. Just remember if you do that you are going to want to double (roughly) the size of the fan on that duct line.

[ProGroWannabe]

I've thought about doing that too. Here are my thoughts...

If it's gonna be a simple design, I thought of twisting the inside piece of screen so that it forms a cone.
Then plug the small end with a good grade of silicone.
Repeat the above one more time starting with a much larger piece of screen to form an "outer cone".
This should (in theory) allow one to pour the carbon into the big end just prior to attaching the inlet flange.
Now, temporarily pin the inner cone so that it won't unravel.
Adjust it to be the same size as the inlet diameter on the flange, and pin it together permanently (a few safety pins should work).
Now it would be time to fit the outer cone around the inner cone in such a way that it would allow the gap between the two to be filled with the carbon.
Adjust the outer cone like ya did the inner cone with one exception. The outer cone should obviously be as large as possible while just barely allowing you to squeeze the flange onto it.
Now that you have a filter element with a flange on one end, attach a piece of pipe long enough to extend past the small end of the cone to the flange.
Attach the "outlet" flange to the piece of pipe and VIOLA'! You have an inline carbon scrubber! This should do the trick quite nicely. The design is used in other industries to filter other compounds. In most of those that I've seen, sintered bronze was the filtering media used.

[Opie Yutts]

I think I follow most of that. Cool. Looking forward to seeing this come together. Pictures please. Needs to be a sticky or faq.

[sweetgreenbuds]

once again another amazing responce thanks so much guys, :jointsmile:
pro gro(think ya could drop the wannabe) your idea for an inline filter sounds sweet think my plan is something similar.
shopping list:
2 x 6"-4" reducers
6"pipe, 6" long
hexagon wire mesh
a pair of tights
1. cut circles in the wire mesh, following by cutting a radius line(from edge to center)
2. twist two sides of the cut over each other, forming into a cone (gaugeing the the depth of the cone to fit from the 6" flange back into the 4" flange, but not touching) and then when happy fix in shape with cable ties or tie wraps. make 2 of these allowing the to cone protrude past the 6" flange.
3. stand 1 of the reducers 4" end down, place 1 of the cones (point up) on top of the 6" flange with excess past the flange. this should now be covered with 1 leg of the tights. now force 6" pipe onto the 6" flange trapping the tights and the excess from the cone between.
4. on the other cone cut the tip off the cone so you have 1" diameter hole. now line the inside of the cone with the other leg of the tights with the toe protruding out past the hole you just cut in the top.
5. place this second cone down into the other reducer pulling the toe of the tights through the 4" flange. at the base of the cone put cuts in the mesh from the base to the flange and bend these tabs back over the flange then froce the flange onto the other end of the piece of 6" pipe again trapping the mesh and the tights. (these flanges can then be backed up with clips if needed)
6. now it can be filled with a funnel through a hole cut in the toe of the tights and when full and tapped down tie a knot in the tights and join the edges of the hole with cable ties

not sure if thats exactly what you described pro gro as... well..... ive had a few and to be honest i couldn't picture yours. but as soon as i'm putting mine together i'll post some pics and it'd be great if you could post some of yours cause different designs might suit different peoples needs.

peace out ppl

[ProGroWannabe]

Well....to be honest, I haven't made mine yet. I DO plan on making it, though--lol. Thats why my above post said "my thoughts were..."

It would be cool if you did a build-a-long on yours. I'm not sure when I'll have time to build mine. It will be a while though.

And thanks for recommending that I drop the wannabe part, but until I am happy with my grows for a while, it'll have to stay as is. :)

[psychocat]

I've been using these for 2 years and they are simply the best lights I have ever used, they give off so little heat , they cost less to run and the harvests I have had have been pretty damn good too. I love mine.


Lamp Envirolite â?¢Reflector
100cm long X 50 cm wide X 20cm deep

[sweetgreenbuds]

ya pro gro,time costs more than money eh, i'm workin 60hrs a week and tryin to renovate an apartment at the same time:( aint always easy but i'll try get that filter together this week and i'll post a few pics as soon as i can.
hey phsycocat cheers for postin but i've decided to go with hps but harbouring thoughts of buildin a smaller veg cab so might use 1 in there
peace out ppl

[lmdesade]

Hey, Psycho... How much have you been yielding with that setup? I love using 125 watt cfls from Farmtek. Yet, that looks like an interesting seutp.

[sweetgreenbuds]

would be really intrested to see yield sizes from them myself, but if i may just jump back to the previous topic of carbon scrubbers, as a filtration medium i was thinking of using lightly burned then crushed charcoal as this is almost pure carbon, right???????
any1 tried this or any opinions for or against, just going to light it up first to burn off any lighter fluid in it but apart from that im guessing it should be ok.

[ProGroWannabe]

It WILL work, but it won't be as effective for as long of a time. Carbon actually adsorbs. It does not absorb. It works by trapping the odor particles in it's crystalline-like structure. The air can still go through but odor particles attached to the air molecules can't make it all the way through since their physically larger.

The whole industry got started in dry cleaning (as I understand it anyway). And at first it WAS activated charcoal. Once industry realized it wasn't the "charcoal", but rather the carbon structure that trapped odor molecules, they went to a purer carbon, and began to chemically treat it bringing about the "activation" technology.

Here's what wikipedia had to say:
Activated carbon, also called activated charcoal or activated coal, is a general term which covers carbon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon) material mostly derived from charcoal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charcoal). For all three variations of the name, "activated" is sometimes substituted by "active". By any name, it is a material with an exceptionally high surface area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_area). Just one gram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gram) of activated carbon has a surface area of approximately 500 m2, typically determined by nitrogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen) gas adsorption (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adsorption), and includes a large amount of microporosity. Sufficient activation for useful applications may come solely from the high surface area, though often further chemical treatment is used to enhance the absorbing properties of the material."

[sweetgreenbuds]

sweet, cheers pro grow for the techie low down:thumbsup:
so can ya recomend any other filtration medium which is also easily available as i dont have the luxury of a nearby hydro store.

also i've decided to build a veg cab in my room but will be a little restricted by size (2'x3'x4'). i've just finished making my light system, i made a reflector from sheet aluminium and i've taken apart 5 x 24" 18w flouros, mounted the bulb holders in the hood and the ballasts will be outside the cab to reduce heat build up.

my flower cab will running dwc under 400w hps, so my question is will it be ok to build a shallow dwc set up or do the roots need a certain depth of water, as i dont wanna sacrifice height in there but, if i did it dwc, it would be easier to transplant into my flowering chamer, or could any1 recomend another set up which will facillitate ease of transplant and a shallow base.
hope this makes sense an not just more stoned babbling

peace out

[ProGroWannabe]

First-off, your welcome on the tech.
Secondly, you have several options as far as where to get good carbon. Do you have ANY stores nearby that sell aquarium supplies? They use a good grade of carbon in some aquarium filters, and that makes it available from aquarium supply places. Even local pet shops have it most of the time. If nothing else seems available you can get it online, or just go back to the crushed charcoal--it WILL work, just a bit less efficient.

Third, are you asking for ideas for your veg. setup? ANd then planning to transplant into your flowering chamber?
If so, how long are you planning to veg for? The reason I ask is because if you do DWC, then you can easily just move the entire bucket into the flowering chamber and not have to transplant at all, assuming your not planning to veg for more than 30 days or so.

Opie....don't you have some DWC experience? What are your thoughts on this one?

[psychocat]

Hey, Psycho... How much have you been yielding with that setup? I love using 125 watt cfls from Farmtek. Yet, that looks like an interesting seutp.

I was harvesting around 12 - 15 ounces every two months because I had a split veg/flower set up and added 5 plants every 8 weeks. I had my mother plant in permanent 16/8 and cloned on a regular basis. This meant that with the constant rotation I was always using maximum space. I found with the Northern Lights that 8 weeks grow followed by 8 weeks flower on cloned plants I was getting the best out of my set up.

I recently had a few problems with the law and have since sold all my equipment .

[Opie Yutts]

psychocat is correct about having separate veg and bud chambers. Of course you get to harvest twice as often this way. Search sog and scrog if interested.

And ProGrow is correct in that I do have DWC experience. I recommend starting like I did, with an Emily's Garden set-up. Run that through a search engine to learn more, but it doesn't take up much room vertically, it's extremely simple, and it produces fantastic results. It didn't take long before I built a couple of them, since they are so simple, which anyone can do with limited craftsmanship skills. The net pots are a little taller than normal, but they sit directly on the bottom of the reservoir. I recommend altering it, by substituting a bigger air pump and by adding 4-6 small air stones. The bad part about this is doing that will take up a little more room, since you have to find a place for your new bigger pump. The small pump that comes with it tucks neatly under and inside the reservoir. You will still get great results without alteration. I also put some extra holes in the pots near the bottom, since I didn't quite think there were enough.

[sweetgreenbuds]

so as i've had such a delay on my plans (i wont even get into it) i've designed a new vented lamp shade with built in scrubber. not in a position 2 post pics at the moment but i will soon:thumbsup:
the two ends will be flat sheet aluminium at 90 deg to the base shaped like topped triangle and the sides are just rectangles to fit the sloped sides of the ends (hope ur followin this:stoned:)
on one of the the ends cut a 4" diameter semi-circle from the center of the top. then on the other end fix a 4" circle of mfd/ply wood half on half off on the top

for the top take some 4" plastic pipe and sit it into the semi circle and over the piece of wood leaving a few inches over the end.
now attach some aluminium to fill in the sides.
on the piece of pipe exposed inside the lamp shade drill as many holes as possible. god i know there'll be questions lol. now take some 6" pipe the same length as the 4" and cut it in half along its length and aslo pepper this with as many holes as possible.
fix this length inside the shade over the 4" and fill the space between with carbon.

now simply fix a bulb holder inside and hey presto a vented lamp shade with carbon scrubber thingy......i hope:jointsmile:

know your gonna love this pro grow:bigsmoke: