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Torog
01-25-2005, 01:13 PM
Abortion Is Un-American (Live from the March in Washington, D.C.)
The American Prowler ^ | 1/25/2005 | George Neumayr


WASHINGTON -- Abortion is un-American. It baldly violates the first principles of the country, cracking the foundation on which all rights for Americans rest -- the right to life. Unless the right to life is inviolable, none of the rights that presuppose it are inviolable either. The Founding Fathers could not have imagined that the most perilous place in America would end up being a mother's womb.

The Washington Post on Sunday noted that President Bush has been reading Natan Sharansky's book, The Case for Democracy. Sharansky establishes in the book a "townsquare" test for democracy: it exists if citizens can protest the government in a townsquare without interference. A fine test, but I would propose a more fundamental one: democracy exists if you can be born into it without an attempt on your life.


Monday's March for Life served as a reminder that for all our renewed rhetoric of freedom America, 32 years after Roe v. Wade, continues to deny freedom to unborn babies. The fire of freedom of which President Bush spoke last week still hasn't illuminated the shadows and penumbras under which more humans are aborted each day in America than were killed on 9/11.


President Bush, in his remarks to the March for Life attendees (piped in via phone from Camp David), used a word rarely heard these days: civilization. The proof of civilization, he said, is whether the strong protect the weak. By that standard, many democracies don't qualify as civilizations, including our own if it betrays the principles of America's founding.


As democratically elected savages like Adolf Hitler illustrate, democracy is not an automatic guarantor of civilization. Separated from moral truth contained in a rule of law, democracies can be as tyrannical as the most rapacious undemocratic governments.


America should only be on the side of "democracy" if it produces civilization; otherwise the tyranny America seeks to end will spread through the very rhetoric of democracy it uses, should the bin Ladens and Hitlers be democratically elected to power. The Founding Fathers, it is worth remembering, didn't call King George III a tyrant because he was a monarch; they called him a tyrant because he violated basic human rights. They knew democracy could devour itself through its own tyrannies unless it was subject to a truth higher than democracy itself.


A nation that kills its own children is a democracy without civilization and a people without a future -- literally. Not surprisingly, pro-life events such as the March for Life are popular with children, the survivors in the random lottery of life Roe v. Wade conducts year by year.


Unlike the children dragooned into service at last year's pro-abortion "March for Women's Lives" on the national mall -- those children looked about as happy as tots at a casting call for The Omen -- the youth attendees at the March for Life braved the freezing weather willingly to protest an obvious injustice against their generation. Naturally, the mainstream press took little to no interest in this largely youth event.


Most youth causes -- particularly if they are infantile and dangerous to the common weal -- command the media's most solicitous attention. But if thousands of youth descend on Washington, D.C. in biting weather to protest abortion, that's a non-event. The Washington Post barely mentioned the march, though it did find a paragraph in its brief Metro story on Sunday to let a Planned Parenthood official smear pro-lifers as "people who love fetuses but hate babies and children."


Would the Washington Post have published a pro-lifer saying that Planned Parenthood hates fetuses, babies, and children? They do. As Margaret Sanger's son Alexander has put it, the unborn child is a "liability, a threat, and a danger to the mother." Child abuse follows from abortion in principle, a fear children whose siblings were aborted have confessed to psychologists. If they could have done that to my brother or sister, why did I survive? they wonder. And why couldn't they do violence to me now?

This year's March for Life featured among other politicians Senator Sam Brownback ("Brownback in 'O8" signs dotted the crowd), Hoosier Rep. Mike Pence, and a slew of Kansas congressmen. The insipid Main Street Republicanism of Nancy Kassebaum and Bob Dole is now a dim memory -- no wonder elite journalists are shrieking, "What's the matter with Kansas?" There were plenty of clergy too, plus a new group of activists the mainstream media certainly won't cover -- women who regret their abortions. Abortion is violence against women, they testified, both for mother and child.

But violence against women and child abuse, normally topics of lively interest to the press, are of zero interest to a pro-abortion press corps that regards abortion as a glorious "freedom" -- perhaps the only one they demand Bush export to the ends of the earth. What they don't realize is that the pro-life movement will succeed without their attention. If the country is to survive and prosper, a practice as abhorrent to its founding principles as abortion can't.

Torog
01-25-2005, 01:17 PM
Abortion ,should be the last resort..and I do find that it's wanton practice for convience's sake---is un-American.

Just say NO ! To the Left's culture of death

juggalo420
01-25-2005, 07:38 PM
the death penalty, and the war in iraq isnt the rights culture of death?

and a fetus isnt a human, are you against masterbation too, i mean when a guy masterbates he kills millions of sperm (life).

Nullific
01-26-2005, 06:41 PM
I've quoted Bill Hicks before and I'll do it again, the man was fucking brilliant.


Childbirth is no more a miracle then eating food and a turd coming out of your ass.


We gotta come to some new ideas about life folks ok? I'm not being blase about abortion, it might be a real issue, it might not, doesn't matter to me. What matters is that if you believe in the sanctity of life then you believe it for life of all ages. That's what I hate about this child-worship syndrome going on. "Save the children! They're killing children! How many children were at Waco? They're killing children!" What does that mean? They reach a certain age and they're off your fucking love-list? Fuck your children, if that's the way you think then fuck you too. You either love all people of all ages or you shut the fuck up.


Go back to bed, America, your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed America, your goverment is in control. Here, here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up, go back to bed America, here is American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on the living in the land of freedom. Here you go America - you are free to do what well tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!

Reefer Rogue
01-26-2005, 07:01 PM
in my opinion its the womens choice. This is a place where the government should keep out of. personally i know if i impregnated a girl rite now i would want her to have an abortion but it would be her choice and i would support her either way. pro choice!

braindead
01-26-2005, 08:34 PM
Abortion ,should be the last resort..and I do find that it's wanton practice for convience's sake---is un-American.

Just say NO ! To the Left's culture of death


So killing iraqi babies is great, but terminating a pregnacy that resulted when a 12 year old got raped by her brother is bad. Maybe thats why you people are so inbred in the heartland?

F L E S H
01-27-2005, 05:42 AM
I've quoted Bill Hicks before and I'll do it again, the man was fucking brilliant.
Wow null, that what some pretty extreme shit, but in a way I can't deny anything he says. I'm impressed...

NowhereMan
01-27-2005, 09:38 AM
the death penalty, and the war in iraq isnt the rights culture of death?

and a fetus isnt a human, are you against masterbation too, i mean when a guy masterbates he kills millions of sperm (life).


and a fetus isnt a human, are you against masterbation too, i mean when a guy masterbates he kills millions of sperm (life).[/QUOTE]


yes it is a life,and a human one.,
and no when your jacking off you aint fertilizing no egg just dirtying ya moms sheets

and the war in iraq aint got shit to do with it

too many idiots on here lately

juggalo420
01-27-2005, 02:44 PM
yes it is a life,and a human one.,
and no when your jacking off you aint fertilizing no egg just dirtying ya moms sheets

and the war in iraq aint got shit to do with it

too many idiots on here lately
how about read the entire thread first genious. torog was implying that abortion was part of a so called 'liberal culture of death', therefor bringing up the war in iraq which the right supports helps so the hypocracy in torogs original statement.

so a fertilezed egg = a baby?
how about this, no one will force your wife/girlfriend to have an abortion, therefor it doesnt concern you. liberals can rely on medical science to determine when a fetus becomes a baby and you can rely on your bible. Abortion shouldnt concern people, if abortion were illegal that would just mean the mother would get a so called backalley abortion and suffer health consequenses from it, just like pre roe v.wade

altwnyguy73
01-29-2005, 05:21 AM
what ever happened to seperation of church and state....or isnt that important anymore?
Of course forcing our political and spirutual beliefs are all the rage these days...
lts a womens choice
...change that , just one more step toward a facist state where the government tells you exactly who, what, where and when....and you dont dare ask why...
Vote your opinion....dont force it on me or anyone else!

Buck268
01-29-2005, 05:23 PM
Governmental legislation of morality is unAmerican!!

Encatuse
01-31-2005, 09:52 AM
Abortion isn't unamerican...

It's what's for dinner.

Torog
01-31-2005, 01:33 PM
Abortion isn't unamerican...

It's what's for dinner.
Howdy Encatuse,

I presume that you are joking ?

Encatuse
01-31-2005, 01:40 PM
You've presumed correctly Torog. I think abortion is disgusting, depressing, and overall an incompassionate thing to do.

But, I believe it's our right as an American.. though if I were female, I'm 100% positive I wouldn't be able to have one.

Button Basher
01-31-2005, 04:17 PM
EDIT:
Fuck it, decided not to post this. Just remembered i'm not interested.

Encatuse
01-31-2005, 08:13 PM
EDIT:
Fuck it, decided not to post this. Just remembered i'm not interested.


hahaha thats awesome ^.^

Nullific
02-01-2005, 01:34 AM
Howdy Torog,
What a nice cute picture of a fetus at 20 weeks, which in my opinion is pretty late for an abortion if the mother knows she can't support/does not want to carry a child.
Take a look at some of my pictures. You'll see the cute little baby after 30-40 years of growth.
Look at all the other embryos, they're cute too, and some have striking resmeblace to that of the human, maybe we should outlaw killing them too.
If you're xtian you'll believe that childbirth is a miracle or something like that, others believe that this only creates the physical being and the spiritual being will move on if development of its body is aborted. Lets not get religion mixed in with this issue, because religion isn't law in america and ultimately it is the womens choice.

Encatuse
02-01-2005, 01:58 AM
Nullific - You'll get Torog started on a whole different issue, because in his opinion ((though it isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact)) America's law is based on Christianity.

GooseBear
02-01-2005, 02:50 AM
I'm completely pro-choice
If a women is raped and dosen't want the child what is she to do. Another thing the man gets off with nothing. There should be laws about his sperm/testicles then if there is laws about a womens own uterus. If the government can control a women's body there is something wrong.

What will they say next "Women shall have the depo shot because men find it disgusting and "wrong" that they bleed from there crotches every month" I mean it is the women's own body and she can choose to do whatever she wants with what is growing on, inside, outside where EVER it may be!

I do not think however that it should be used as birth control.

Enactuse it's easy to say "if I was" , your a guy and you will never understand how it is to have a female body.

GHoSToKeR
02-01-2005, 10:35 AM
Governmental legislation of morality is unAmerican!!That's the best thing anybody said so far.

Torog, the debate isn't whether abortion is wrong or right, American or unAmerican.. The debate is whether the government should be allowed to make their laws based on their own morals and religious beliefs. The answer to this should always be no. I don't like the idea of abortion, but I understand that sometimes it is neccesary, and so I am pro-choice; I am never going to be in position where I need an abortion, so why is it up to me to decide whether it is wrong or right? Youre never going to be in that position either, Torog, and nobody is ever going to force anybody you know to have an abortion, so why are you calling for it to be banned? Also, Church and State should be seperate, so the government should always be pro-choice.

"the tyranny America seeks to end will spread through the very rhetoric of democracy it uses, should the bin Ladens and Hitlers be democratically elected to power."

Now, correct me if im mistaken, but havent the bin Ladens and the Bushs been pretty good friends up until recently? Im sure - and, again, excuse me im if wrong - that the bin Ladens have been lining the Bushs pockets for a long time... Also, if you look closely enough, you'll see that the Bush of today isnt so different to the Hitler of the 1930's... http://www.falloutshelternews.com/BushHitlerLinks.html

Anyway, as I was saying.. Governments should always be pro-choice in matters of ethics and morality. There's no two ways about it, and if you are against governments being pro-choice, then you are wrong. It's that simple.

F L E S H
02-01-2005, 02:51 PM
I'm completely pro-choice
If a women is raped and dosen't want the child what is she to do. Another thing the man gets off with nothing. There should be laws about his sperm/testicles then if there is laws about a womens own uterus. If the government can control a women's body there is something wrong.

What will they say next "Women shall have the depo shot because men find it disgusting and "wrong" that they bleed from there crotches every month" I mean it is the women's own body and she can choose to do whatever she wants with what is growing on, inside, outside where EVER it may be!

I do not think however that it should be used as birth control.

Enactuse it's easy to say "if I was" , your a guy and you will never understand how it is to have a female body.

I'm with GooseBear 100% on this (even though I'm a guy :D)

This issue is important to me, my girlfriend had to go through an abortion a while ago (from me, nothing traumatic, it was a problem with the birth control, and it hasn't happened ever again) and she didn't even need to think twice about it. All I could do was be there for her, listen to her, support her, because ultimately it's HER choice, not the goddamn government, nor yours, Torog. You think it's easy for a woman to just walk into a clinic and get an abortion? It's a horrible experience, and people should take necessary steps to avoid it, however the choice MUST ALWAYS be there.

What gives you the right to decide what other people should with their bodies? Sure, start by saying abortion is illegal, after that, what's next? Again, GooseBear gives a good example with the depo shot. Then what? will it be illegal to get a tattoo because some people think a body is sacred and shouldn't be messed with? Will it be illegal to get a body piercing? will it be illegal to grow your hair long? (believe it or not, I heard on the radio today that Kim Jong Il has made it illegal for men to have hair longer than 5 cm (2 inches) because to him it's anti-socialist... and to think in the US having long hair is anti capitalist... LOL)

A person should be free to do with their body as they see fit, and as far as I'm concerned, an embryo before 3 months is still part of the mother's body.