Mycorrhiza

[Dr. Bloor]

I was in a nice store the other day a noticed they had a bag of Mycorrhiza. When i used to work in a tree farm we always knew about it. However, it was very specific to the tree. I remember one time I took a caterpillar tractor out and very carefully lifted the top 4" of soil up so it could be loaded up and transferred to another location so they would be more able to grow the same trees we were growing. It was all about the mycorrhiza. Apparently it is in the top 4' of the soil.
My question now is,and I should have asked those experts then. Is what do you think of using it?
I am thinking about it. However if the mycorrhiza is specific to a redwood tree, as this one was, how do you know what kind of mycorrhiza the stores sell in their bags? Are there mycorrhiza specific to cannabis and what are there brands?
Thanks for reading all of this. Dr. Bloor

[Opie Yutts]

wth? This is way out of my leage.

[Dr. Bloor]

Mychcorrhiza is a fungus as I understand it that has a symbotic relationship between roots and the soil and the nutrients that are picked up. Anyone? There must be some soil expert out there for this one.

[Dr. Bloor]

Something to think about though! I would like to hear from the real experts here on this question.

[rhizome]

There are both specific and general use myco inoculants- generally, when you're using specifics, you're recreating a symbiotic relationship that the cultivar has a known relationship w/, but isn't native to the cultivar's location.

The general purpose mycos are an unspecific mix of endo&ecto sp. that are common worldwide in healthy soil- sterilization for poting mix destroys them, so you have to re-introduce. Promix actually markets a formulation that's got myco spores mixed right into the media, so it's pretty much live as soon as you water it.

I like the OGM.

[Weedhound]

Hope that's expert enough for ya......:thumbsup:;)

[Dr. Bloor]

I already was aware of specific mychocorrhiza. Well that cool! I know that the mychocorrhiza has a symbiotic realization. I know when we were inoculating the soil for a specific tree we wold use the specific Mychorrhiza. It had to be very specific. What we were doing is trying to grow trees where they were not usually grown, thats why I was driving a driving a cat around in a field with a lifting bar to bring up the top soil. 4" to bring up the Mychorrhiz. These were so specific to the tree. To transfer the mychorrhiz to another location. Specific to this tree,
So still the question I have is the mychorrhiz in a grow store specific to our plant? Otherwise it seems a waste of money!

[Weedhound]

I believe he's saying there are two kinds....and the one in most potting soils is the "general purpose". Logically I would think if you put in something specific to a certain type of plant you'd want to be listing it on the bag wouldn't you? so i think he did answer your question.....i THINK.. ;)

[rhizome]

So still the question I have is the mychorrhiz in a grow store specific to our plant?

It's as specific as it needs to be- and one of the cheapest things you can use to optimize a plant. $ 10 worth of myco will do bales and bales and bales of soiless mix/ potting soil.

Nobody's gonna put " marijuana specific" on packaging- when you do, it becomes illegal. Hell, even Advanced publishes feeding schedules for melons- who's gonna spend $700 ( 2+ series, 40 g res, 8 week cycle) to grow a melon?

[Weedhound]

Nobody's gonna put " marijuana specific" on packaging- when you do, it becomes illegal. Hell, even Advanced publishes feeding schedules for melons- who's gonna spend $700 ( 2+ series, 40 g res, 8 week cycle) to grow a melon?

lol.....no wonder I can't find it at Wallyword.....:D

[Dr. Bloor]

My question has indeed been answered! tx Rhizome!

[Dr. Bloor]

Maybe tomato growers in the valley would?

[cwesto]

I am actually a complete noob FYI, BUT i was at the local Chronic shop the other day and the owner actually percibed my plant this very fungi, i just administered it about a day ago so i will lwt u all kno if it brings my plant back to life.

[Tea Party]

Is this myco-fungi safe to use on seedlings 1-2 weeks old, or is it in the same realm as nutes?

[rhizome]

Safe as milk, so to speak...

(Sorry, old hippy referance. Don't use milk)

[stinkyattic]

I just this week am working on an experiment using long-fibre coco inoculated with Myco-Stim and Serenade as a cloning medium. They've been in for a little over a week with no mortality so far out of about 30 cuts. I did a batch alongside using the rapidrooters as a control, since it is easier to pull them out and check for roots. So far I am hopeful. Updates to come.

[Weedhound]

Stinky.....uhhh.....like I have any idea what that means....:wtf:

[Opie Yutts]

Weedhound, I think:

long-fibre coco
The long fibers from coconut husk, cleaned, dried and chopped up.

inoculated
It means to put some molecules where they will reproduce, triggering an increase in immunity to diseases.

Myco-Stim
A fungus that helps root growth.

Serenade
Helps stop fungus and bacteria. Wait, I must be wrong somewhere. No sense adding a fungus and anti-fungus. Where am I screwing up stinky?

cloning medium
Whatever stuff you use to stick your cuttings in while they root.

[stinkyattic]

Serenade is Bacillus subtilis and I added it in hopes of stopping harmful fungus- we'll see if there's any point to it.
Local temps are peaking in the low 90s today and I lost a couple to mold yesterday- I'm having terrible temp control problems.

[the image reaper]

Fox Farms makes a wonderful, mild potting soil called 'Happy Frog', that is perfect for seedlings, it also has plenty of mycorrhiza and humic acid in it ... but, what I really like, they also make Happy Frog Soil Amendment, which is the straight mycorrhiza, that is to be added to whatever soil you already use (the residue recovered from the base of rotting trees, etc in the forest, it says) ... my babies love the stuff ... for adult plants, I'm using two parts FF Ocean Forest, one part Happy Frog Soil Amendment, and a 1/2 part perlite ... :smokin:

[Opie Yutts]

Local temps are peaking in the low 90s today and I lost a couple to mold yesterday- I'm having terrible temp control problems.

I'm real sorry to hear that. In my humble opinion temp problems are the worst kind of problems.

[Opie Yutts]

So if I understand correctly what's going on here, we only use mycorrhiza to inocuate soil. This has nothing to do with hydro, or am I just out of it?

[Weedhound]

You got me Opie but thanks for the glossary....:)

[texas grass]

the hydro store down the street sells the mycorrhiza in pill form and the box says to put in soil about 1/4" below clone/seed.1 per plant
their 10 bucks for a box of 40 i think im goin to get a box and see how good they work, say real benificial for root

[rhizome]

OP- I don't like the OGM type mycos for hydro, as the carrier for the bios is vermiculite- makes a god-awful mess.

Have a look @ a GH product called " SubCulture".

[Opie Yutts]

OK, I had a look. If anyone is interested (I know I am):

From General Hydroponics
Subculture is a revolutionary blend of microorganisms that will increase vitality and yield in all plants. Whether in soil or hydroponics, the proprietary mixed blend of bacteria, actinomycetes and trichoderma fungi colonize in the root zone and media to form a symbiotic relationship with the plant. Plant root mass will increase, as well as nutrient absorption, creating bigger, healthier plants.
GENERAL HYDROPONICS (http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/subculture.html)

Another similar explanation from a hydro store
SubCulture is a biological root inoculum that contains a wide diversity of microorganism species. Suitable for use in soil and hyroponic applications; SubCulture contains fungi which colonize roots and bacteria which form symbiotic relationships with plants. SubCulture can be used throughout the growing cycle and also contains plant extracts, amino acids, humates, vitamins and sugars to sustain a living community of beneficial organisms.
Coca's Central Valley Hydroponics, Inc. Online Shopping (http://www.cocashydro.shoppingcartsplus.com/page/page/430107.htm) (scroll down a bit)

A couple 3 questions:
- Does anyone know exactly (or roughly) how much something like SubCulture could benefit an already thriving grow. I've always thought if it aint broke, don't fix it. However reading about it makes it sound like something that every grow should be taking advantage of. Maybe an increased yield by 1%? 5%?Any guesses? I donâ??t give a ratâ??s ass if my root ballsâ?? size is worthy of respect and awards if it doesnâ??t do anything for my yield.
- They say it can be use throught the growing cycle, but should I stop using it during the last week or so while I am flushing?
- Though it can be used in hydroponics applications, is it chunky enough to plug up spray nozzles?

[rhizome]

It's a "dialed-in" thing- you won't see a big differance unless things are pretty well maximized. F'rinstance, ya won't see any increase in mass if there isn't available carbon to fix, etc.
However, it'll do a world of good in a stressed garden. Very good pre-emptive disease precaution.

GH won't tell ya this, but once you have those colonies in yer rhizosphere, they'll tend to self-perpetuate... You don't have to re-apply each change, though it's great if ya can.

Never known it to clog GH spray rails, which are pretty fine. If your worried, just toss a pump bag ( pump sock) over the pump.

[Skrappie]

I water with a culture when i transplant, i've yet to see a plant stressed after a transfer(this grow). I Think cultures are great for everyone, it makes the margin for error smaller.

[Tea Party]

Mycorrhizae...I get the impression that it only needs to be added to the plant once, and then it is just chilling in there keeping itself alive until harvest. Is that true, or does it need to be administered from time to time on a schedule?

[Dr. Bloor]

So if I understand correctly what's going on here, we only use mycorrhiza to inocuate soil. This has nothing to do with hydro, or am I just out of it?

As far as I know the mycorrhiza is used to inoculate soil. Thats is the way we used it in the tree nursery. It was specific to the tree in that application.

[Opie Yutts]

Not exactly, as rhizome says on the 1st page, Have a look @ a GH product called " SubCulture".

[Opie Yutts]

Mycorrhizae...I get the impression that it only needs to be added to the plant once, and then it is just chilling in there keeping itself alive until harvest. Is that true, or does it need to be administered from time to time on a schedule?


I think rhizome is suggesting you don't have to apply nearly as often as the directions call for. I think you would still have to do it ocassionally. What is ocassionally? Anyone, rhizome?

[Dr. Bloor]

From what I have known and learned here it is a one time application to be mixed into the soil. It will take care of itself after that. Dr. Bloor

[Tea Party]

From what I have known and learned here it is a one time application to be mixed into the soil. It will take care of itself after that. Dr. Bloor
That's what I figured. There is a powdered bag for sale at the local grow shop and the directions are for 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water, but it does not say how often to apply.

[Opie Yutts]

I guess I was thinking more about hydro, where you change your nutrients often. I imagine it would be much less often for soil.

[texas grass]

i just bought some mycorrhizal tablets
heres the explination on the box
give back to your garden what the forests and jungles have naturally
improves
-plant growth
-nutrient and water uptake
-fruit and vegetable yield
-flower and tree growth
-leaf size, color and density
reduces
-transplant shock
-drought stress
directions for use
-direct sowing, place tablet 1" from the seed/clone beneath the soil surface
-transplanting, place tablets at the bottom of the planting

guaranteed analysis 17-9-5
also contains mycorrhiza in calcined clay 45%
humic acid derived from leonardite(cdfa method)35%
ascophyllum nodosum(seaweed extract)20%

MYCORRHIZA APPROXIMATELY 10,000,050 VIABLE ORGANISMS PER GRAM

ECTO
pisolithus tinctorius-9,000,000 spores per gram
rhizopogon luteolus-250,000 spores per gram
rhizopogon fulvigleba-250,000 spores per gram
rhizopogon villosuli-250,000 spores per gram
rhizopogon amylopogon-250,000 spores per gram

ENDO
glomus intaradices-20 spores per gram
glomus clarum-5 spores per gram
glomus mosseae-5 spores per gram
glomus monosporus-5 spores per gram
glomus deserticola-5 spores per gram
glomus brasillianum-5 spores per gram
gigaspora margarita-5 spores per gram

[rhizome]

Heh- I thought the endo class was limited to glomus, non-inclusively.

OP- GH's logic in replacing culture w/ res change is that there are interactions between micro-organisms that can influence plant growth/health, beyond any primary affect each organism may have. You're resetting your population ratios w/ reapplication.

See incredibly long pdf file here (http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/52/suppl_1/487) I think that you'll need to click the manual download link.

On the flip side, endo populations in particular tend to perpetuate.

I couldn't speak for population ratios in the final product, but you can grow out Subculture at home- Room temp water (gassed out), 5% grow nute, a little bit of glucose ( or whatever ya got handy), toss in a pinch of Sub, leave it in the dark a couple days- It'll breed.

Yer on yer own for dosage.

Do not kick over- stinks pretty good.

[VTDank]

I'm using Happy Frog for my big girls with awesome results, I'm even using it for my other plants, and they seem to be in heaven, the stuff is primo

also....in my plant physiology class we learned about mychorrhizal fungi (actually the one you guys are referring to is most likely Endomichorrhizae or Arbuscular michorrhizae, they are highly branched arbuscles within root cortical cells, and apparently neither the cell wall or the host's cell membrane is breached (when the fungus enters the root tips, and the nodule structure is formed transferring nutrients between the fungi and the root cortical cell) I think mainly the only thing the nodules do is provide an ''extra" nitrogen source that the plant stores in nodules in its roots...but I've never seen this in cannabis

[Rusty Trichome]

I used to grow peas and beans (string beans) and always used an inocculant, specifically to fix nitrogen nodules to the roots. Was always afraid of fixing the nitrogen to the cannabis roots, (if indeed it would react the same way) because the nitrogen would still be there while trying to flower.

Is this the same kind/type of product?

[DirtyViperMan]

I Know this thread has been dead for awhile, but i would like to pass on something i learned in class this week about mycorrhiza fungi. First off if your grow isnt 120% organic its just a waste of money to try and use the fungi. Any ferts that use salts will kill the fungi in a hurry. The fungi also can increase the surface area for the roots up 200%. But this is only really helpful if the roots arent already taking up all the space in the pots. Also the fungi have the ability to inorganic or inaccessable nutes, and convert them to the plant. Last but not least fungi breathe O2 and give off CO2. Kinda nifty I thought, and very symbotic. Sooooo in closing grow your plants in larger pots or outside with mycorrhiza, you will have to feed and water your plant alot less.

Heres a site that specialize in all sorts of fungi. Fungi Perfecti®: gourmet and medicinal mushrooms (http://www.fungi.com/).
and paul Stamets on ted kewl shit Paul Stamets on 6 ways mushrooms can save the world | Video on TED.com (http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/paul_stamets_on_6_ways_mushrooms_can_save_the_worl d.html)

ps. i bought the potting soil and rooting meduim with the extra nitrigon fixing bacteria. It is amazing i had to cut my blood meal doage in half. I was already using half the recommend amount.

Viperman

[ryguy241]

Heres a basic explination of mycorrhizae. There are two basic types of mycorrhizae, ectotrophic and endotrophic... Ectotrophic only penetrate intercellular spaces while endotrophic penetrates cortical cells of the roots.

It releases certain chemicals that increase the availability of both inorganic and organic phosphorus, because plants with the fungi need less phosphate, fert applications can be reduced. It also widens the areas of new roots hairs or older "not much used roots". they improve plant health, which lower pest problems and reduce applications of various pesticides, increases uptake of water and nutrients and also protect roots from pathogens... increase water retention, and releases nutrients of organic matter by ensymic means, trapping nutrients, and in death provides organic matter.

These fungi are common in 97% of all plants in their native environment thus going out and digging up some of your forest soils will be enough to do the job. No need to go out and buy this stuff, unless your using ALL organic mix, which excludes perlite and vermaculite which are both minerals soils...

I am leaning twords the use of sand silt and clay soil with about 1/3 to 1/2 organics. Any suggestions?

[disrupt86]

i have been using cannas version "this shit aint cheap" after talking with my friend that owns the store basically the run down that i got is,it helps keep your root mass healthy by turning old dead root matter into a useful healthy environment.hmm i really dont know how to explain what he told me.seems effective though.

[PKroniK]

Hey, if you use Fox-Farms products, try mixxing your soil with the "light warrior" seedling mix. It contains the very mycorrizae you are looking for. I ran out and read the bag, and it supposedly contains bacteria that helps your other nutrients absorb into the plant (chelate). Subcool recommends 2 parts ocean forest to 1 part light warrior, to lighten up the mixture, and cool off the sometimes hot ocean forest. It works very well and takes the plants all the way.

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

wth? This is way out of my leage.

yah think especially since you mispelled league. just fin with ya man. :stoned:

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

i have been using cannas version "this shit aint cheap" after talking with my friend that owns the store basically the run down that i got is,it helps keep your root mass healthy by turning old dead root matter into a useful healthy environment.hmm i really dont know how to explain what he told me.seems effective though.

i dont know about environment?? it is supposed to dispose of dead matter keeping roots healthier. way too much hype anymore:wtf:

[rudy2010]

Last summer I went to a several vendor days at my local hydro shop. There was a scientist (looking) guy who was discussing Mycorrhiza. His company was selling a blend of 3 types of Mycorrhiza that he said was better than the 1 type of Mycorrhiza that is found in FF Happy Frog. He also said that a bag of FFHF does not have very much Mycorrhiza in it. I don't really recall many more of the technical details of that conversation from last year.:stoned:

In my experience I have found the FFHF to be the best media for starting new young plants. I have always believed that this was due to the Mycorrhiza. I was told by a friend who went to Oaksterdam U that he heard the Mycorrhiza will attach to the roots and will cause the plant to grow hardier throught the entire growth cycle. I have tried soils without Mycorrhiza and the results were shocking. The plants in the super soil were runted by comparison to plants started in FFHF. Even after transplanting the stunted ones into FFHF they never recovered and were still smaller at the end of the season.

I am not sure if this proves anything. This year I plan on putting a little packet of extra Mycorrhiza under each plant when I put them in the ground. They also sell Mycorrhiza in about a 3 or 4 ounce jar for about $50 but that is supposed to work for several holes. I don't know where rhizome got his for $10 but maybe he will let us know.

Just my 2c sorry I don't rememer more of the scientific details. I am hoping to talk to these folks again this summer.

[MrTeas]

HI
I believe I can answer some of your questions. Im new to ANY site and have never posted in a 215 forum previous. I enjoy soil science and have been working on studies to increase the nutritional content of food crop with the help of
Dr. Elaine Ingham of Soil Foodweb.


I was in a nice store the other day a noticed they had a bag of Mycorrhiza. When i used to work in a tree farm we always knew about it. However, it was very specific to the tree. I remember one time I took a caterpillar tractor out and very carefully lifted the top 4" of soil up so it could be loaded up and transferred to another location so they would be more able to grow the same trees we were growing. It was all about the mycorrhiza. Apparently it is in the top 4' of the soil.
My question now is,and I should have asked those experts then. Is what do you think of using it?
I am thinking about it. However if the mycorrhiza is specific to a redwood tree, as this one was, how do you know what kind of mycorrhiza the stores sell in their bags? Are there mycorrhiza specific to cannabis and what are there brands?
Thanks for reading all of this. Dr. Bloor

[rockcopper]

I have tried and like the white widow brand mycro it seems to be very benifitial to the roots and good roots equal good bud.