A serious question about alien, illegal, immigrant policy.

[Spoken Word]

I realize this topic is very controversial and I understand why.
So my one and only question will be simple so it doesn't spark any negative debate.

Before you read my very simple question I'll give you some background information about me so it does not affect your answer.

I was born here in the United States.
I am a second-generation immigrant.
I have other U.S. born, second-generation "immigrant", close family members(first cousins) that have served in the navy and marines. It might seem cliche to even mention hispanics and the armed forces but unless you have served in this country's military it says a lot about my cousins pride in "our" country.

Our first generation immigrant family members(the original "aliens") have gotten all their "papers" legit and all of them have their citizenship and most have great careers in fields like real estate, engineering, construction, and numerous kinds of police and law enforcement(police officers, agents and lawyers).....to name a few.

as far as my second generation family and hopefully, the rest generations....
We're all "colombian" by background but "american" by birth and general culture, wether "america" likes it or not.

----------------------------------------

My honest question to you all.. since i hold the mature people on this forum in high regard......

I have "illegal" asociates. They are good people that provide more for the U.S. society than a lot of "americans" but with horrible and dangerous home countries.
A couple of them pay taxes and social security, weekly, at their jobs.

at first, the only thing that makes sense is that the jobs are shady right????
that might be the case but I don't think so.

The question is why do some illegal aliens pay federal taxes and social security??

is it a "let em until we catch em" kind of thing?
because it doesn't make sense to me since illegal immigrants are now a "disease" to the united states and also since the majority of "americans" want illegal aliens out.

i understand if no one wants to try to answer the question.
thanks for your time.

[The Colonel]

Are you sure they are paying federal taxes?
because i know a lot of the contreversy over
illegal immigrants is because they dont pay taxes,,
atlest most dont.

[Hilder420]

My mother came to the US when i was 2 years old. She entered the country illegally, got her residency because of the amnesty the president Reagan approved. When I was 5 years old she went back to Mexico and smuggled me, my sister, and my cousin. I went to school here, graduated from high school, and did some nurse training. Yes, I smoke marijuana, but I've never been in trouble with the law and I'll keep my fingers crossed and take precautions so that I never will. To this day, I'm now 23, and have been approved to recieve my residency, but I have to wait untill they get to my priority date to recieve my visa, so I can get a ss to work in the US which could be another 10 years. I've been waiting since I was 9yrs old. I have had several jobs, and have all been "under the table" with out me paying taxes. I had no choice, what was I gonna do? Go up to the IRS offices and explain to them I'm here illegally, give them my name and number and my money so they can deport my ass? Thats ok, I think I'll skip that. If the government would give me and million others like me a chance to work legally, get financial assistance, attend college, get health benefits, medical care for our children, and I'm not talking about all the benefits retired and seniors get, I'd be more than happy to pay taxes as are many other immigrants. Hell, most of us just want to work for a chance to live out our dreams and make our lives something to be proud about. It's not like we plan to come here take your menial jobs, and say "I'm not paying taxes, just to fuck the government over." For Goddesse's sake in California, these people can't even get medical care and continue to pick fruit and clean your toilets! In Texas, you cant get a drivers license, or an I.D.
I think that the government and media has put such a negative spin on what immigrants come into this country for. Sure there are of course the bad apples, but every community has them. All my life, I've heard about how illegal immigrants come to take advantage of the overflow of money in these united states. What most people come here for is to work toward a better life, a better education for their children, to give them a better chance at life that the previous generation who couldnt or werent even given the opportunity to have in our home countries. This great country rose to greatness on the backs of european immigrants. Why is it so bad now, that other immigrants are trying for the same success your great grandparents had? Sure, there are people who refuse to embrace the language and customs, but we're not all so against becoming "americanized". Hell, I speak and communicate better in english than in my native spanish, even though I am fluent in both. The generalization that the government puts out there applies to alot of people, but leaves the majority out. I think the government should pay more attention to those of us who have or at least tried to make this country better than just assuming we're all here to run you over with our taco trucks, and take all your monies....ese LOL WHOO!! ok thats the end of my rant. I'm gonna go roll a fatty cuz now i have a headache. :jointsmile: Peace- Hilder

[Peruvian Devil]

All i got to say is that without immigrants the US economy would fall on its ass. before you answer to this really think about it, make connections and you will understand

[PharmaCan]

The question is why do some illegal aliens pay federal taxes and social security??

is it a "let em until we catch em" kind of thing?
because it doesn't make sense to me since illegal immigrants are now a "disease" to the united states and also since the majority of "americans" want illegal aliens out.

i understand if no one wants to try to answer the question.
thanks for your time.

The vast majority are working using false identification and real SS#s stolen from legal workers.


All i got to say is that without immigrants the US economy would fall on its ass. before you answer to this really think about it, make connections and you will understand

:S2:

Let's test your theory. Send all the illegals back where they came from and we'll see if Americans prosper. If not, we'll invite them back.

PC :pimp:

[medicinal]

In answer to your question. The employers of those that pay demand payment, whether they send it to the government or not is another question. I'm guessing unscrupulous employers would find this a way to pay even less to the workers they are exploiting. The real deal is this: there are millions of people all over the globe that want to come and be part of the American experience. Why should they be penalized by having to wait for years to come legally while by virtue of you being a neighbor you can waltz in unanounced and take up residency, feeding off our medical, schooling, welfare and Jobs, while lowering the standard of living for legal citizens. I realize this is not entirely your fault and the employers who most assuredly know you are illegal are mostly to blame as no jobs, no immigrants. Go back and apply like all the rest of the world, and while you're there, try and change your corrupt government for the better.

[Bogart]

:jointsmile:

They think that even thought they are here illegally if they pay taxes the government won't round them up and send them back because they are paying taxes. The same reason Citibank has allowed them to get home loans if they register for a TIN to pay taxes and the IRS encourages them to get a federal tax payer number to pay taxes. The IRS doesn't care if they are legal or not as long as they pay taxes.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I don't have a solid stand on the issue, but it annoys me when people argue in support of illegals with "This country was built on imigrants!". Just because they're all called "imigrants" doesn't make them the same people, it's a vague generalization. There's a difference between legal european christian imigrants who came to found the country, and illegal south american imigrants looking to mooch off the system. I'm by no means painting this picture to apply it to all people of any group of course, I'm just sayin' it's a stupid comparrison using vague reasoning.
It's kinda like people who attack christians by saying "well christians did such_and_such an atrocity!". Doesn't make you vicariously guilty by religious association. And likewise, mexican illegals shouldn't get credit by mere linguistic and situational association.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

....but I have to wait until they get to my priority date to receive my visa, so I can get a ss to work in the US which could be another 10 years....
....Thats ok, I think I'll skip that. If the government would give me and million others like me a chance to work legally, get financial assistance, attend college, get health benefits, medical care for our children....
and why should it be easy? some of us were lucky enough to have been born in this country, that doesn't mean that the rest of the world is entitled to the same benefits as we enjoy at the drop of a hat.

i'm sick of people whining about how difficult it is to become a us citizen. isn't it worth the trouble? take a look at some of our south-western cities and you'll see the result of uncontrolled entry into the country. the closer you get to the border, the more the towns resemble tj on a bad night. this is the result of people who would rather hop the border and take advantage of the promise in another country than stay where they are and work to improve the conditions in their own country.

the world isn't fair; get used to it, get over it and get on with your life. the only ones who believe that the playing field can or even should be leveled across the world are simpletons and those with nothing to lose.


....in California, these people can't even get medical care and continue to pick fruit and clean your toilets! In Texas, you cant get a drivers license, or an I.D.....

oh, they can get medical care - at taxpayer's expense, no less. that's one of the major reasons that ers are being forced to close throughout the south-west. as for ids, they are a privilege reserved for citizens of the united states. why should they be handed out to any fool just because they can show up at the dmv?

[bongerstonerd00d]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peruvian Devil
All i got to say is that without immigrants the US economy would fall on its ass. before you answer to this really think about it, make connections and you will understand



Let's test your theory. Send all the illegals back where they came from and we'll see if Americans prosper. If not, we'll invite them back.



AMEN PC, sounds like a stellar idea to me.

b0nger

[Spoken Word]

Well, I investigated a little and the couple of people I knew have expired but legit "papers".
Let me clarify... The one guy I'm close with, got a visa through his grandmother when he was 6 (17 years ago)... He came to the country legally, the U.S. gave him his own SS# and he got a liscence through the DMV. His grandmother died 10 years later. He has been told by numerous lawyers that his status is "illegal" because he was supposed to leave the country since his dead grandmother didn't renew the Visa.

What doesn't make sense is that he pays income tax, social security and does his income tax with the same lady as me. He gets the check back and everything. This guy even has a bank account.

Like I said, maybe since he isn't causing any trouble the gov't lets him be. I mean, I don't think anyone is stupid enough to throw away free money!! Much less the U.S. government.
It's interesting though.....like kind of ironic.

Money, money, money........

[snowblind]

if where gonna be honest here 99% of americans are imigrants. the natives, well you all know what you did to them. we have the opposite problem in the uk, they immagrants that are illegal claim assylumn and get jacked up on benefits, but because they are undergoing the sylumn process which is so backlogged it can take up to 3 years, they have no national insurance number and dont have to pay tax.

fuckers

[Spoken Word]

:hippy:


:stoned:

In my opinion.....

and not that I don't respect any other views or answers but these certain replies stuck chords with me.


try and change your corrupt government for the better.
i think every single country has people trying to change their gov't.. Which fight actually works in the end????? Hardly any. Because governments are made up of people and people are grimey and self-centered by nature. Even the peaceful types. Wether thay admit it or not.


There's a difference between legal european christian imigrants who came to found the country, and illegal south american imigrants looking to mooch off the system. I'm by no means painting this picture to apply it to all people of any group of course, I'm just sayin' it's a stupid comparrison using vague reasoning.
Oh believe me, I know. These moocher types are the ones to spit all this shit about how bad U.S. policies are. I usualy want to tell them to get the fuck out since they hate the U.S. so much but I'm too nice to do that. lol Why make people feel like shit?


i'm sick of people whining about how difficult it is to become a us citizen. isn't it worth the trouble? take a look at some of our south-western cities and you'll see the result of uncontrolled entry into the country. the closer you get to the border, the more the towns resemble tj on a bad night. this is the result of people who would rather hop the border and take advantage of the promise in another country than stay where they are and work to improve the conditions in their own country.

the world isn't fair; get used to it, get over it and get on with your life. the only ones who believe that the playing field can or even should be leveled across the world are simpletons and those with nothing to lose.


oh, they can get medical care - at taxpayer's expense, no less. that's one of the major reasons that ers are being forced to close throughout the south-west. as for ids, they are a privilege reserved for citizens of the united states. why should they be handed out to any fool just because they can show up at the dmv?


If I make someones life harder, I can't sleep at night.

[thcbongman]

i'm sick of people whining about how difficult it is to become a us citizen. isn't it worth the trouble? take a look at some of our south-western cities and you'll see the result of uncontrolled entry into the country. the closer you get to the border, the more the towns resemble tj on a bad night. this is the result of people who would rather hop the border and take advantage of the promise in another country than stay where they are and work to improve the conditions in their own country.


If part of their conditions were caused by the US, does that justify them coming here? Absolutely not. That's why this is an incredibly bold, but avaricious argument.

The solution would be to nip the main source of the problem: a drain to government resources. Their right to live here could be argued all day. But one concept isn't: they should pay taxes to have access to resources.

I don't believe most employment should be tied to citizenship. That's why there should a tax on all workers, regardless of citizenship status. Treat employers not keeping their workers on the books as tax evasion. Most income of illegal immigrants may not be proportional to what American citizens pay, but we should start collecting now.

Still, America has very lax immigration laws. They should tighten them, but without harming the economic benefits illegal immigration brings.

[wickerbill]

The question that you originally asked has been answered. Of course this type of discussion has a tendancy to take on a life of it's own, so I'll throw in my 2 cents. First of all, I served in the US army infantry for 12 years so I respect the fact that some of your relatives served. I think that people have problems with illegal aleins, aside from what has already been posted, is that it is ILLEGAL. All of us who are not native americans, are immigrents who's family's had to go through the LEGAL process to live & work here. We are also supposedly under terrorist attacks that could breech the borders while posing as "undocumented workers". Personally, I don't understand why people who live in countrys that are corrupt, that could modernize, that are rich with resorces (my god, that sounds like what we are becomming) take back your own country and make it work. If I went to your homeland will they give me health care, a job and housing even though I can't speak that country's language?:)

[Spoken Word]

Listen, I agree with having any country free of dangerous, illegal immigrants.
And maybe U.S. policies have changed recently but I already stated that my "alien" family all have their citizenship. And the rest were born here.

I was born here. I have studied the history of the United States. I know about our culture. Shit, I know about both northern and southern cultures. I think i know more since I'm not "blinded" by any preference.

I see the U.S. culture on t.v... It's easy to point out.
Ford, GM, NFL, NBA, NASCAR, Transformers etc.
Great music.....Diners, drive-throughs, fast food...
I can go all day.... No one in this world doesn't know everything "american".

everyone seems to hate on the U.S....I think it's because we are so great at everything....well other than all the WAR stuff.
in other words, if we were meaningless, no one would talk about us.
But sizing, comparing, judging others....that's just human nature.

Since my roots and background run very deep in colombia, I have conflicts with ignorant people in both countries.
In the states, negative people treat me like a dirty you know what.
In colombia, negative people treat me like an arrogant you know what.

I'm fine with it, I can care less as long as my family is safe.



what I don't understand is when people jump on the bandwagon and for some weird reason, talk about some policy that their preferred political party agrees with.
Cause in reality, that's all they are doing.....talking.
Everyone agrees with kicking illegal aliens out. Shit, my family did it legally and we are fine but i guess recent policy is different and it is much more difficult now.

you can make yourself feel better by thinking that the "aliens" want to destroy but the only truth is that "aliens" have nothing to lose. but everything to gain.
The only real solution is to build a wall around the country.

and I also don't understand when "aliens" come into a country and talk shit about it.
it makes me sick.

but again, we're all human, all we can do is post about it on some message board.:stoned:

[medicinal]

Here's mexico's take on Immigration to mexico:...............1. If you migrate to this county, you must speak the native language

2. You have to be a professional or an investor. No unskilled workers
allowed.

3. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no
special ballots for elections, all government business will be
conducted
in our language.

4. Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they
are here.

5 Foreigners will NEVER be able to hold political office.

6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no
food
stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs.

7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount
equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.

8. If foreigners do come and want to buy land that will be okay, BUT
options will be restricted. You are not allowed waterfront property.
That is reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.

9. Foreigners may not protest; no demonstrations, no waving a foreign
flag, no political organizing, no badmouthing our president or his
policies, if you do you will be sent home.

10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be hunted down
and sent straight to jail.

Harsh, you say? The above laws belong to the immigration laws of
MEXICO!

[Spoken Word]

mexico is one of the most currupt countries in the world.
The general public usually agrees with any of the Million factions, instead of the gov't.

Most spanish-speaking countries are the same.
With exception of Chile, I believe, they seem to be doing well.....considering the curruption of every latin american country.

i'll say it again so it's clear..
I think this is a great country and I wouldn't raise my children anywhere else.