Stinky's Crash Course in "nOOb Hydro"... Welcome to the Darkside

[stinkyattic]

Hey all, can I start by saying for the record that I am a COMPOST grower- HAHAHA- just in case there was any confusion... :jointsmile:

I'm setting up another room in my house to run hydro for the winter because I really don't have a good place to store soil that doesn't freeze, and disposing of used dirt in a place that gets SNOWFALL is just ASKING for trouble...

So this is going to be set up as an example of what I consider to be a very VERY basic beginner hydro system, one which anyone can run without too much hassle.

I have always run a perpetual crop, and despite the insistence of my favorite Cannabis Consultant (you know who you are!) that SOG 2-month cycles are far more efficient, I'm going to continue.

It's not that I disagree, but I personally have amassed a collection of 35 different strains and do not want to limit myself to a single strain per cycle, and I will need to be able to move plants around anyway, so there's no reason why I should not run multiple trays and reservoirs, and simply move plants along as they get closer to harvest.

Plants are not going to be embedded in a substrate of anything; rather, they'll be put in quart pots full of hydroton- not net- pots, regular ones, and moved to keep the canopy as even as possible, and get teh proper food mix.

I will have 3 trays:

2x4 for early flower- plain bloom nutes
2x4 for mid flower- this one will get any bloom boosters I decide to use
1x4 for pre-harvest- this will contain all plants within 2 weeks of harvest and be on a constant leaching solution

Plants will be put into the room as well-rooted clones, and grown in the bud-on-a-stick fashion.

Lighting will be a single air-cooled HPS1000. Also in the room will be my spare HPS400 for retired mothers, but that is not part of this log.

The room is about 6x6 ish.

Reservoirs will be 5 gallon pails with covers. Pumps will be the cheap 'Eco' pumps from National Garden Wholesale- the local shop stocks them and they are supposed to be pretty damn indestructible for a $15 pump.

I'll be no doubt having to add additional climate control, as my attic is unheated. I may also add CO2 if my friend EVER decides to give me back my damn tank, grr, but I haven't decided yet, since I sleep in the same area and am not exactly comfortable with trusting the regulator! If I can find a high-CO2 alarm, I'd be more willing to consider it. Plus I'd have to go sealed-room. We will see.

Most likely the strains I will choose out of my collection for these hydro tables will all be squat indicas, and I will be relying heavily on the classic Power Plant and the BOG lines, along with a couple of my own lines that I feel are well suited to SOG.

For ferts, I've got 5 gallons of Botanicare Power Plant/Power Flower that I need to use up, then I'm switching to Cornucopia quite likely- it's cheap, it's local, I'm impressed by it so far, the local shop keeps it stocked.

I run city water and do not forsee problems. I've dabbled in flood n drain before and my main issues were nothing more than temps and getting the cycles right.

So as soon as I get some plastic at the house, I'll start posting up pictures.

[Weedhound]

I'm already massively confused but I'll figure it out once I get the photos.....now why flood and drain as opposed to DWC or drip?

[stinkyattic]

My goal here is to post up a very simple system that can be built for short money. It's certainly cheaper than drip for initial investment, and needs less maintenance.

The reason I have decided against DWC is that I'm really just going to be running a single point of light, and I feel that a field of small plants is more efficient under this restraint than fewer but much larger plants.

Another thing to consider is the total 'age' of each harvested plant, from the time the clone roots to the time it is harvested- by minimizing that time, you also reduce the amount of plant energy wasted putting on 'wood', and the risk of anything bad happening to it.

My plant count is already outrageous so hey... here goes!!!

[Weedhound]

Ok....here's what I don't understand about clones.....even though they are the genetic age of the mother....you're still looking at one little branch that has to put out some side growth etc before you flower it. The clones take how long to root? So really, how much faster is it from seed? Enquiring minds need to know.....:D

[weedmaster]

i can see this is going to be a very interesting thread, will be following with interest.

[stinkyattic]

Bud on a stick= side growth is actually kept to a MINIMUM.

I'll allow up to 3 leads per plant in that size pots; all other side growth will be removed after the second week of flower.

Clones take approximately 2 weeks to root at my house, then I pot them up and abuse them for another week to test viability. That's actually sort of a joke, but it's true that I don't really baby my rooted clones very much; I'd rather that they die early rather than waste work on a plant that is sickly or not vigorous enough.

So compared to the same SETUP from seed, whcih wouldn't be practical since I'm flowering clones at a size shorter than they are typically at when they initially show sex, I'm going to assume a month of time saved.

Compared to a DWC from-seed grow allowing a month of veg after the seedling stage, I'd say 6-8 weeks saved, although my per-plant yield is going to be very low of course!

[Weedhound]

And then you do a bunch of them at once and that's where your speed and high yield come in.....I get it now. Like what Rhizome was talking about with the 192 plants...hey...you're not doing 192 plants are you??? :eek:

[Weedhound]

the flood and drain makes more sense now as well.....less things breaking and less worries.....can take of everyone at once....hey....you ARE a pretty smart Growhead... :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[stinkyattic]

Funny you should bring up Rhizome... I'm not running 192 plants, but it's something akin to his basic setup instructions that I'm thinking of actually. I think he was telling dusto about something very similar except just a single-stage grow, not multiples.

And yeah, that's the point- nothing to break. Keep an extra pump on hand, because that's pretty much the only moving part in this system, lol. I will very likely aerate the res's though.

[fatsax]

Whats wrong with flood and drain its always worked gd for me and there aint much to go wrong with it.also i like the idea of having a large reservoir in the system to keep the water parameters more stable.
chronic was perfect stinky for my tables,short,fast and fat just like my women:):):)

[Weedhound]

Well, my issue with flood and drain would be the timing....I don't want to deal with the possible problems and drip and DWC don't deal with the issue (unless you want them to). But for lack of moving parts, ease of checking and adjusting ph etc as Stinky said...it would be the way to go.

[hydrocannabis]

stinky quote: I'm setting up another room in my house to run hydro for the winter because I really don't have a good place to store soil that doesn't freeze, and disposing of used dirt in a place that gets SNOWFALL is just ASKING for trouble... :quote

I'v seen some pix of a setup like this one on the web befor.

I am sure that if stinky is doing it than it should work out great.

[stinkyattic]

Oh sheesh I had a long sit-down yesterday with the guy from the shop to talk about possible setups.

My priorities, and the reasoning behind them, are as follows:

-MUST be a re-usable medium- that is why I am SET on hydroton.
The reason is to make this a good setup for an apartment-dweller who can't be disposing of soil, soilless, or rockwool slab every cycle, and doesn't feel like hauling a bale of promix on his bicycle or public transportation, lol!!!

-Should be under $200 for all parts, not including lights and climate control.
This is because I am trying to make this thread a tutorial for someone who already has the dirt experience I recommend for your first couple grows, so already HAS the basic equipment handy.

-Must be very low maintenance and also pretty fool-proof.
I want this to be easy to set-up and maintain for someone who has only limited DIY skills and can't afford a pre-fab hydro kit.

So a second option we discussed was what he calls a 'modular vertical containerized NFT', lol!!!! Or something like that- I was baked off my gourd at the time.

This is a BRILLIANT solution. It's a sort of hybrid NFT/recirculating drip. But rather than dripping, it emits a constant STREAM of highly aerated water over a pot of hydroton pellets.

A system like that has the following advantages over NFT:
-hydroton remains moist for a significant amount of time after pump failure
-hand-watering is possible in emergencies (power outage).
-Cleaning is very simple

And the following advantage, valuable to upper-story apartment dewllers, over flood and drain:
-Volume of reservoir can be much smaller!!!
This is why I am leaning towards this method. I wanted to be able to flood out of 5 gallon pails, but that would have meant multiple pumps on timers set to go on at different times, flooding the trays.
This delivery system's total volume is very small. I am not trying to haul more than 5 gallons of nute solution up my attic stairs, thanks!!!

So when I make up my mind, I'll let y'all know.

[Weedhound]

Please do because I am LOST.....where is this stream of aererated (sp?) water coming from? There has to be power to a.....(can't spell) right? Now you've got moving parts again......:confused:

[stinkyattic]

The stream of aerated water is run from a res with an airstone, by a pump pushing 1/4" flexible tubing. The pump is a given either way.

I'd also like to add the assumption to set this up- You've already completed at least one soil grow and have lights, ventilation, appropriate mother plants, and basic troubleshooting knowledge already in place.

[Weedhound]

Ummm....no...I haven't completed a soil grow.....am I out? :(

[stinkyattic]

You were probably born with a green thumb... :weedpoke:

[Weedhound]

Yeah, if the pump is a given....maybe you said it and I missed it but what kind of timing would the watering schedule be with that?

[stinkyattic]

That would be constant flow actually, like a waterfall.

[Weedhound]

So the advantage over drip......?

[stinkyattic]

Hydroton can't hold moisture well enough to get a drip system working easily.
The simple solution would be rockwool slab, drip, set it and forget it... But I'm trying to assemble a COMPLETELY re-usable system with absolutely NO waste. And don't tell me about aero... lol

[Weedhound]

I don't know anything about aero....rockwool's a pita....and its ph probs. You know.....you can buy air pumps that run on batteries in a pinch in case you don't happen to have a standby generator sitting around at your house for power outages....just a thought from a non-dirt person.....I'll go away now and quit pestering you and your thread.....;)

[stinkyattic]

NONONO Don't go, I may need you to troubleshoot my 'dro, yo!
Good call on the battery air pumps. You must keep fishtanks...?

[Weedhound]

Well I only meant for about ten minutes....I was on break from pestering....a quick doob and I've punched back in :D

I do keep fishtanks but it's more about the fact that we're in nowhere'sville.....except for the few DUI's that seem to keep finding the power poles. Sure wish they'd go hit a tree or something. :wtf: (pss....I hit a house once....drunk....:()
0

[HighTillIDie]

nice grow... i am on my first noob hydro experiment... a long time soil grower, and until i met fox farm i was a; compost, selfmixed earth, guy. The hydro is very exciting i think, of course alot more hands on, and tempremental... I LOVE hydroton, becuase i am a foliar feed retard, and it hard to over water, and if you do, the plant bounces back real quick... i also like a cotton wick, it helps me know that small plants can get moisture as they need at any time, and it flushes clean, during res change. I have been wondering what to do for air in the small res though. what is truely the best method of puttin o2 in the water?

Can't wait to see how it turns out

on a side note
i am gonna have to augment my set up for flowering, there is just no way my set up could handle even 4 fully grown flowered plants.i don't know if you are fimilar with emily's garden, but i was thinking of somehow adding an external res. maybe by using a heigth difference to keep the planters water level right, and for free drain, and a pump from the res to wherever.
does this sound about right? this should allow me to keep my setup still somewhat short, but add needed res room

[stinkyattic]

Part numbers are from National Garden Wholesale- your local grow shop should have an account with that company.
6 leach trays@ $12, NGW#707430
ECO-264 submersible pump, $20, NGW#728305
1/2" tee fitting, $.50, NGW#708420
21 1/4" tee fittings @.35, NGW#708405
21 feet black vinyl tubing ID 3/16" OD 1/4", @$.40/foot, NGW#708220
42 5.5" square pots, I fished them out of a dumpster, but they are about 50 cents each

Then the inevitable trip to Home DePot for stuff I forgot:
5 gallon pail wit cover for res- $7
30 feet of 1/2" black vinyl tubing- $14
end-to-end fitting for above- $2- then I realized I don't need it, lol
a couple pieces of cull lumber, $2
2 sawhorses- I already had these, the cheap ones you make out of 2x4s and steel brackets- no more than about $15- I'll be sawing the legs down and using them for support

And shit I already have:
50L sack of hydroton
Another small res for my leach section
Cheap walmart pond pump for same

The whole thing all together is about $200. Most of that is trays, pumps, and hydroton.

[Weedhound]

Well why didn't you just buy me a bunch while you were there? Part numbers....and you accuse ME of geekyness....PULEASE!! :D

[Rock.Steady]

Ummm....no...I haven't completed a soil grow.....am I out? :(

oh, youve completed soil grows alright,,,,,




with disasterous results, genocide queen:wtf:





please-
step away from the dirt.

[Weedhound]

heh heh....el destructo.... :D

[Rock.Steady]

Stinky.
i dont want to hyjack ur thread, but have come recommended,

Originally Posted by rhizome
Stick the Russian boy in a cardboard box someplace w/ 1 cfl on 12/12. He's just a sperm donor- no sense babying him. Girls can stay in with the thai. When he drops, you hand pollinate.

Check in w/ Stinky- she does this kind of thing sometimes.


could you come visit my log and maybe lend me some advice on my possible hand pollination project?

its a long log, if you pick up at page 20 or 21 ull be up to speed by 22 on your possible advice.

thanks in advance
Rock.

[stinkyattic]

lol Rock I'll come on by.

[PharmaCan]

oh, youve completed soil grows alright,,,,,

with disasterous results, genocide queen:wtf:

please-
step away from the dirt.

:S2:

[PharmaCan]

Hey Stinky, why is this in the "Grow Log" section? Could you move it somewhere that the thread is easier to find and check back in on? Like maybe Hydro?

This is a great thread. Can't wait to se how everything turns out. :thumbsup:

PC :smokin:

[stinkyattic]

It's really a log... and there are people FAR more qualified to give hydro advice!
This is a thread about watching a drrrty girl get her fingernails clean for the first time in almost 3 years, lol.

[BUZz UK]

When are we getting some pictures then eh?

[Purpetrator]

Hey Stinky,

I am in the process of building a system almost exactly the same. Hydroton, pots, tray, drip, sog. For the same reasons you are completely reusable, relatively low maintainence, etc. I have used rockwool ebb flow before with decent results. But, IMO rockwool is high maintainence. The problem that I have been procrastinating over is using strictly hydroton? You said you are running a constant waterfall which is basically what I want to do. I had my mind set and then started reading all the mixed opinions about it. Now I'm a bit confused. Is it ok to run a constant drip or stream using the hydroton, or can you still overwater, cause root rot, etc. Then the nut's, I assume for this I would need to run a dilute concentration since it will be constantly feeding the plants. Sorry for the lengthy post. Just want some good advice.

Thanks

[stinkyattic]

Those are questions I'm going to be trying to answer too.
The reservoir water is going to be VERY VERY well aerated and I don't forsee any problems with root rot, and I'm going to treat teh nutrient solution as if it is nothing fancier than a normal NFT.

[ProGroWannabe]

I think it's really cool of you to do ALL THIS WORK for the benefit of others. How selfless is that! You know stinky, you really are a solid cornerstone of this forum. I for one am very glad your here!

[stinkyattic]

Aw shush, I'm blushing. Honestly I have a shitload of fun with it myself so I'm not sure how selfless you can really say it is.

[stinkyattic]

PICS!!!
It's up and running at 1/3 capacity.
I ended up deciding to go with a 5 gallon pail res per 2 4-foot leach trays. My pump is a little overpowered so I am replacing it wiht the small sized Eco pump- cost is very similar.
So the pics show the sawhorses that it is supported on, the system assembled 'dry' without any of the drip fittings, the res and its pumps (water and air), the drip lines, and the whole system running with plants. Chronisseur's head looks okay too but I think his hairdresser is mad at him.
I'm running the Cornucopia Plus 3-part, which as the local hydro guy puts it is a twitchy and VERY strong fert for a nOOb to start with, but FABULOUS stuff, and I've been very happy using it in soil so far... we will see. Anyway I'm using the Bloom, the Necessary Plant Energy, TopMax, and molasses pH'd to right about 6.0 according to my cheapskate liquid test kit. I'm using concentrated HNO3 as pH down and conc. KOH for up.
The pump is not on a timer- it runs 24on- and there are no emitters; I plugged the ends of the flexi, cut at 45' angles, directly into the large hole in the rapidrooter plug, whcih as you may recall, I don't use for cloning. I cut a small slit instead for that.
Plants are embedded in a quart pot of hydroton and with the pump turned off may be moved freely throughout the system, allowing for the different feeding schedules of the multiple strains I run at all times. One res will be on plain water with molasses for the final flush, one is on regular plain bloom nutes, and the middle one will contain any bloom booster (probably PK 13/14) that I will be using mid-cycle.

[Weedhound]

Oh dear god I am so lost.......:( Looks GREAT.....even the back of the head looks good. :) I'm glad you were off doing something useful this weekend instead of your usual marijuana hijinks. :D :jointsmile: :stoned:

[stinkyattic]

Oh dear god I am so lost.......
Repeat after me:
Modified Vertical Containerized NFT... Or whatever term you want to give it. I prefer "That thing I just built to avoid hauling dirt up and down the damn stairs all winter".
It was a very productive weekend! The chick my have her own power tools, but it's nice to have a Chronnisaur around to help build shit.

[Weedhound]

Yes....sometimes better than a good draft horse.....but NEVER better than a tractor (GOT YOU CHRON!! HA :S2:)

[stinkyattic]

Yes....sometimes better than a good draft horse....
..quoth Empress Catherine the Great...

[Weedhound]

..quoth Empress Catherine the Great...

AGGG! I may be old but not THAT old.....:S2:

[stinkyattic]

AGGG! I may be old but not THAT old.....
"Alone Time" with ones 'mount' is ageless! I just appreciate that modern women can appreciate the effect of a tractor just as well of better, particularly if the engine is not in good repair and the thing vibrates excessively....

[Weedhound]

Yeah I know some guys who do that too.....;) :D

[whatsthatsmell]

since you have that up in your kitchen, can i have an order of egg's over easy, sausage (links unless you have some real sausage then i will take that) wheat toast, oj, and coffee with cream and sugar.......

[stinkyattic]

You'll have to be satisfied with kielbasa.
I DO live in the Pioneer Valley after all!
And the system is no longer in my kitchen, silly!

[Weedhound]

Yeah....it's now back out with the spa......lunch orders? :D

[Chronisseur]

since you have that up in your kitchen, can i have an order of egg's over easy, sausage (links unless you have some real sausage then i will take that) wheat toast, oj, and coffee with cream and sugar.......

...that is NO JOKE... I'm not sure if she's a better cook or cultivator!

So Stink, when ya gonna fill that biatch? Still 4 (?) left? Anymore hydroton 'dam-age'?
... I'll just leave the 'bad engine, excessive vibration thing over my head where it belongs:D

Sup Hound?

[stinkyattic]

I've got 3 more pumps (correct size) coming this week, and need just 2 more pails and air pumps and that beast will be full.

Smelly-The-Dog decided to have some clones for a midnight snack last night though... so I will have to use some runty ones.

Thanks Chron! Hey if I've got company you can be SURE that company is going to leave a couple pounds heavier than they showed up... Here's a bong, here's a pile of food, let's see what you can do.

[whatsthatsmell]

Yeah....it's now back out with the spa......lunch orders?

ok, for lunch, i want a REAL rueben, with homemade potato chips, a dill pickle, with makers mark on the rocks and a tall glass of sweet tea.... for desert, i will take vanilla 2 layer cake with strawberry filling and chocolate frosting and side of french vanilla ice cream

[Weedhound]

ok, for lunch, i want a REAL rueben, with homemade potato chips, a dill pickle, with makers mark on the rocks and a tall glass of sweet tea.... for desert, i will take vanilla 2 layer cake with strawberry filling and chocolate frosting and side of french vanilla ice cream

One peanut butter sandwich coming up.....;)

Stinky that is EXACTLY what I do with company also....here's a pair of muck boots, here's a manure fork...let's see what you can do. :wtf: Don't get alot of return company for some reason.....:(

Chron....aren't you a sweetie for helping with all that. :thumbsup: Could use you my way if you know how to handle a tractor...:D

[stinkyattic]

Well this is day five of my hydro experiment and I'm having to drop the pH twice a day. I've been brining it down around 5.8 and daily it creeps back up into the 7s. The plants aren't terrribly happy as you can imagine, but no mortality yet. Teh system appears to be working though.

[BigWeed]

:rasta::rastasmoke:Hey stinky I just read all of this log and would a ebb&flow with hydroton filled up all the way in the tray and just plant the clones in the hydroton like you would in soil in a sog style. If you want you could still add the drip to it and it will be a drip plus ebb&flow. Oh yeah and its reusable. Less moving parts to.:rasta::rastasmoke::pimp:

[xxxhazexxx]

me to just found your thread stinky this grow will be fun it mite even turn you to the darkside full time lol everything your doing is spot on.
goodluck.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

Stinky....are you using hydroton? If so....that's probably where your ph issues are coming from......drove me crazy and I finally had to switch to something else (or BACK to something else as it were.....)

[stinkyattic]

Yeah, I'm in hydroton- I should have just run the system with no plants for a couple days first- the pH appeared to completely stabilize over the past 24 hours. When I got up this morning, it was right where I'd left it.

I just picked up a set of Canna Aqua A+B anyway; it's buffered in the right range... a little more security there.

Anyway day 7 of the experiment and I can report:

-The plants are still alive.
-pH is stable (knock on wood).
-It has only overflowed twice, and hasn't fallen through the living room ceiling yet...

May I say it's an unqualified success? HAHAHA sometimes it's nice to have low expectations... :jointsmile:

[Weedhound]

I don't know.....I've honestly tried that......running the system with just hydroton and it never helped me any. I never did find the answer to the stuff. :( Glad it seems to have straightened out.:thumbsup:

Only overflowed twice eh? You're right.....that is a much better record than say.....every day or even TWICE a day so...ummm....yes.....what a plus. :wtf:

Whats causing that problem...can you pinpoint it?

[stinkyattic]

Simple. I dropped a bunch of pebbles into the leach tray, and they occasionally work their way down to the outflow and block the opening, which is only 1/2"- perfect size for a HT pebble to block!

[Weedhound]

i see......another case of operator error vs mechanical failure......shame humans have to be involved at all.....shame.....:D

[MVP]

Hey Stinky, a nOOb to the board but not a new grower... how often will you change nutes in your res?

I have a similar grow going (HT, hydro, indica - but a DWC bubbler + wick) and the girls are drinking a gallon a day. I have 6 plants in a 10-gal container that I run with 5-gal of nutes changed weekly, topped off when it drops to the 3-gal mark.

I am trying to cut down on hauling water all the time... what is your opinion on how frequently to top off vs. how often to replace and refill? Blurry pics = camera phone...

MVP
:jointsmile:

http://gallery.cannabis.com/uploads/87468/101307_2.jpg
http://gallery.cannabis.com/uploads/87468/101307_1.jpg

[Paht_Hed]

I don't know about you guys but I have a single DWC setup in a 5 gallon bucket for 1 plant and I didn't change the nutes throughout veg which will end at 8 am oct 14 for a total of about 5 1/2 weeks.

[Weedhound]

Personally....I LIKE changing my res...my plants take a lovely jump everytime I put fresh nutes in.....I can actually tell the next day so I change nutes alot...and recirculate them as well to keep everything in the best shape I can. ;)

[MVP]

I agree WH, a weekly change is working for me but I'm looking for input from others on when they have found it is best interval for nute changes.

The only drawback right now is that the flowers are so heavy they are falling over; I thought I staked it well enough halfway into blooom, but I'm finding out I didn't...

[Chronisseur]

...so how's the grass on THIS side of the fence?...Damn, it's dark in here:wtf:

So I believe I'm giving in to these uncontrollable urges to play with all this hydroton I've got laying around. This is all off the record, but once the 2 TL x MTFs finish (4 weeks), I'll have alot more space under a K hps that was lent to me by a very wonderful friend of mine;)

My reasoning:

1.) Numbers dont lie. I am all about efficiency.

2.)49% of my desire to cultivate is the 'hobby' in itself. To recreate an optimal environment for such a beautiful plant is what I would call,...umm...my pleasure.:D

3.) The amount of weed I consume for what I consider to be 'medical reasons', just yesterday, left me purchasing pearlite with quarters:wtf:

4.) ...my house is dirty enough.


....damn!

[Weedhound]

I think you'd do very well Chron....and wouldn't be dropping bits and pieces down into the system. :D

Don't suppose you have photos of the grow you've got going now....we'd love to see.

[stinkyattic]

To answer the res questions, this isn't a DWC grow so I'm not sure how that info would apply- I had planned to change the res weekly and top up with pH'd water daily.

WH- Yes, operator error. Problem lies between keyboard and chair.

Chron- Look at you, so easily seduced by the Dark Side. Shame. :D I'ma head over to chat...

[MVP]

Thanks ... most hydro grows have commonalities, IMHO, so I felt the love in the answer :D

[BigWeed]

:rasta:Hey stinky I wanted to ask you the Bog strain you have where did you order it I just recently purchased some Bogglegum from bc bud depot. Is it the real BOG genetics or just someone growing his stuff and selling his seeds as Bog. Oh yeah they still havent gotten here yet.:rasta::rastasmoke::pimp:

[stinkyattic]

Mastergrown Seeds was authorized to do a run of Bogglegum F2s which were sold on seedbay last year, but that is the only authorized BOG stuff I'm personally aware of- not to say it doesn't exist- I got my BOG stuff at Sacred Seed but they don't ship, I had to drive to Toronto from Massachusetts... hahaha quite a nice vacation actually; I went via Madison WI and Escanaba (?) ON... on the Ninja. Boy, was my ass ever sore after that one!

Well I also have an update on the system. I TOTALLY mangled the roots putting the plants in there and after a day or so they all looked dead or very nearly so, but as long as there's a green growing tip I don't consider a plant a loss... so I left them. The first to make a full recovery was a unknown cross of two unknown plants from a BOG mix pack. IT has since turned into a volleyball-sized globe of greenery. The others don't look so hot still but are STILL ALIVE!!! And all but one appear to have recovered.

I also switched to the Canna Aqua a+b, since it's buffered better fro hydro, and the cornucopia seems beautifully suited to soil. I'm a lazy bum and finally got around to my first res change this morning. lol.

I just can't believe the hardiness of this plant. My temps are in the 90s, I bused the clones transplanting them, tortured them with wild pH fluctuations, and they are STILL hanging on!

Oh and the specific BOG stuff I hold at the moment is:
-Bogglegum (male)
-SourBubble (both male and female)
-Unknown bushy mix female
-A couple crosses
-Black Indica (male and unsexed) which is actually Plan B gear but Bushy's got a hand in that project and the BI really falls in line wiht the hardiness and noob-resistance of his older work.

If anyone is growing his stuff and selling unauthorized seeds, I'd post about it over at ICMag. The guy deserves more respect than that!

[Weedhound]

Jesus.....you drove all over for the seeds? Wow...I'm impressed. :thumbsup:

I'm less impressed with the mangled roots however. You are starting to sound suspiciously like me.....what's up with that?? :wtf:

[Chronisseur]

...Ya should've seen her,...all giddy like a schoolgirl, throwin' baby plants around like crazy person...:wtf:
I told her it was not gonna help to PUCH the roots into the hydroton, but she just wouldnt listen!:D

...no, actually I was quite impressed at the quality and efficiency of her work! Not too damn shabby, for a giddy schoolgirl:thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

Why are temps in the 90's in the middle of October?

[MVP]

Why are temps in the 90's in the middle of October?

GLOBAL WARMING! That seems to explain everything.

[Chronisseur]

Why are temps in the 90's in the middle of October?

I think she adjusted her exhaust according to season, and quite honestly, the season hasnt been very compromising...rather it HAS, compromised for a 92 dg. am with a 29 dg. pm!...I'm feeling effects today to the tune of 8-10 degrees more than 'normal', putting me around 85-87 after a consistent week of 76-79.:wtf:
Location is a key factor, because no matter how much ventilation you have, if mother nature says fuck you, ...she means fuck you!:(

On the other hand I'm far more anal than most about heat just for the simple fact that I personally HATE anything above 80 degrees myself. I may smack dem biatches around every now and again, but it's only cuz pimpin' aint as easy as I make it look, and although ATM I'm fixin' to come upside they heads, It dont sttle no ribs to see dem bitches sweatin'...just aint what the playas is lookin' fo ya dig?:cool:

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

^:S2:

[Weedhound]

ummmm....no i'm afraid not. And I sincerely mean that. :cool: And I'm sorry I asked. And I sincerely mean THAT. :D

[stinkyattic]

..
...no, actually I was quite impressed at the quality and efficiency of her work! Not too damn shabby, for a giddy schoolgirl
I'm glad I have entertainment value :wtf:
Schoolgirl? hahahaha


Why are temps in the 90's in the middle of October?
Al Gore said something about fossil fuels and the greenhouse effect but I wasn't listening....


I think she adjusted her exhaust according to season, and quite honestly, the season hasnt been very compromising...rather it HAS, compromised for a 92 dg. am with a 29 dg. pm!..... if mother nature says fuck you, ...she means fuck you!
Oh, hahahahahaha Chrons in fine form today. But yeah, I rearranged my exhaust configuration to account for a spell of very cold nights we had a week ago- vented into my bedroom rather than outdoors- and then BOOM outdoor temps are back up into the 80s again!! WTF. Anyway....

This is great seeing so much action on the log, just like old times... ahhh! I feel like I should update.

I got all sassy and ordered a bunch of drip stakes for the girls. They told me they wanted the FANCY showerheads in their locker room, so I got those 6" blue emitter stakes for 25 cents each. They should be in today and I'll take pics later.

[whatsthatsmell]

I may smack dem biatches around every now and again, but it's only cuz pimpin' aint as easy as I make it look, and although ATM I'm fixin' to come upside they heads, It dont sttle no ribs to see dem bitches sweatin'...just aint what the playas is lookin' fo ya dig?

Can i get a translation book for this pleease!!


Step away from the bong....two steps min.....

[stinkyattic]

haha there should be a disclaimer on Chron's siggy, not the usual "this is not my grow it's pics I took off the internet" but "I'm probably stoned right now and practicing my comedy routines on you, the captive audience".

I'm not kidding, if you heard Chron's impersonation of the Notorious BIG... omg the kid needs to start doing standup.

Well I gotta run, it's off to the local garden centers with my buddy to hunt down some new and exciting clearance plants for the legit garden. Good times.

[Weedhound]

Well I would have laughed hysterically.....if I had understood a word of it. Maybe you had to be there??? :stoned:

[stinkyattic]

The one plant that came back FAST is doing great.
I've had one death.
The rest are starting to show signs of recovery.
The system apparently works WELL... error lies between keyboard and chair, as they say.... hahahha

Here's the lovely lady, unknown Bushy Old Grower stuff. Have no clue what it is but it's vigorous!!!

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

PEBKAC!

::In the distance, the opening notes of Taps can be faintly discerned, swelling to a crescendo before falling away to a hush::

I'm so sorry for your loss.
;)

[BigWeed]

Mastergrown Seeds was authorized to do a run of Bogglegum F2s which were sold on seedbay last year, but that is the only authorized BOG stuff I'm personally aware of- not to say it doesn't exist- I got my BOG stuff at Sacred Seed but they don't ship, I had to drive to Toronto from Massachusetts... hahaha quite a nice vacation actually; I went via Madison WI and Escanaba (?) ON... on the Ninja. Boy, was my ass ever sore after that one!

Well I also have an update on the system. I TOTALLY mangled the roots putting the plants in there and after a day or so they all looked dead or very nearly so, but as long as there's a green growing tip I don't consider a plant a loss... so I left them. The first to make a full recovery was a unknown cross of two unknown plants from a BOG mix pack. IT has since turned into a volleyball-sized globe of greenery. The others don't look so hot still but are STILL ALIVE!!! And all but one appear to have recovered.

I also switched to the Canna Aqua a+b, since it's buffered better fro hydro, and the cornucopia seems beautifully suited to soil. I'm a lazy bum and finally got around to my first res change this morning. lol.

I just can't believe the hardiness of this plant. My temps are in the 90s, I bused the clones transplanting them, tortured them with wild pH fluctuations, and they are STILL hanging on!

Oh and the specific BOG stuff I hold at the moment is:
-Bogglegum (male)
-SourBubble (both male and female)
-Unknown bushy mix female
-A couple crosses
-Black Indica (male and unsexed) which is actually Plan B gear but Bushy's got a hand in that project and the BI really falls in line wiht the hardiness and noob-resistance of his older work.

If anyone is growing his stuff and selling unauthorized seeds, I'd post about it over at ICMag. The guy deserves more respect than that!

Hey stinky sorry for taking so long. I recevied my bogglegum saturday and on the web site its says they are the exclusive distributor of the remaining authentic world-class Bog supplies available. I also received my other seeds as well today. As soon as Im able to start growing they will be the first seeds I pop and if I have any questions I hope you will help me out thanks and your plants are looking fine keep it up girl.:rasta::rastasmoke::pimp:

[stinkyattic]

Thanks BigWeed. That Boggle is a nice plant; MAKE YOURSELF SEEDS OF IT!!!!! It's almost entirely stabilized. I've only got a male boggle, a female BlueJay x boggle (thanks KD! She's a beaut), and a mated pair of sourbubbles (sour bogglegum pheno)... I'm missing the girl!!! Awwwww. I should have backed it up when I had the chance. Now I have to cube out the male or something. It's gonna be a pain in the ass.

[Weedhound]

Backed? Cubed? Is this a math thread??? :eek:

[BigWeed]

Thanks BigWeed. That Boggle is a nice plant; MAKE YOURSELF SEEDS OF IT!!!!! It's almost entirely stabilized. I've only got a male boggle, a female BlueJay x boggle (thanks KD! She's a beaut), and a mated pair of sourbubbles (sour bogglegum pheno)... I'm missing the girl!!! Awwwww. I should have backed it up when I had the chance. Now I have to cube out the male or something. It's gonna be a pain in the ass.

Oh yes I will be making seeds with all my strains I got. Since they sent me my order I will purchase two more of bogs strains before christmas Ill let you know which ones when I decide thanks.:rasta::rastasmoke::pimp:

[stinkyattic]

No, I don't have a cold, it's in my res. I was wondering why the outlet had slowed to a trickle, yanked the pump, and discovered it was COATED with slime. Not a hard fix, just take out the filter and rinse, but I had to TOUCH the slime!!! Who said hydro was CLEAN? Come here and let me smack you two time!! Yuck. Plants are fine though. Almost time to call the system a success and build the other 2 modules.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

LOL @ two time!
psssst...buy a box of cheapie medical gloves. I'm like Howard Hughes. I touch nothing.

[mike024]

Hey Stinky I just read through this thread start to finish and wanted to say Im happy to see you enter the world of Hydro with such a Grand entrance. Did this thread die out for a reason? No ones put anything on it in over 3 weeks from what I can see. Well either way I like the logic in your system hope it does well for you!!

[BigWeed]

Hey stinky I was wondering I was going to start up my grows again and I might need some help with question about breeding is it alright to ask them here in your log here or do you have another log i can post them in because there isnt a breeding log to post question in.:rasta::rastasmoke::pimp:

[stinkyattic]

The hydro log... ehhhh... the system is just sitting there doing hydro things, not especially exciting. I know, I should post some updates. Sorry... :D

BigWeed, start your own thread with questions so that other members can also help answer.

I'll try to get some pics tonight, but it looks abotu the same as it did. The plants are nothing to write home about- they have some issues (my temps are spiking back up into the 90s) so glamour shots are going to be disappointing!

[BigWeed]

The hydro log... ehhhh... the system is just sitting there doing hydro things, not especially exciting. I know, I should post some updates. Sorry... :D

BigWeed, start your own thread with questions so that other members can also help answer.

I'll try to get some pics tonight, but it looks abotu the same as it did. The plants are nothing to write home about- they have some issues (my temps are spiking back up into the 90s) so glamour shots are going to be disappointing!

Hey thanks stinky I will do that.:rasta::rastasmoke::smokin:

[stinkyattic]

Update... I took down the first couple plants out of the hydro system. Yield is looking promising! So far:

1 unknown cross of 2 unknown BOG mix-pack plants, in at the first planting (Oct 8), out as a 10" x 3" diameter single bud.
1 NorCal Daddy's girl, in at the second planting (Ehhhh... Nov 1?), out as a 8" x avg. 2/5" diameter single bud with virtually no foliage (I think I had to take off like 4 fans and a dozen sugarleaves; the bud is the most outrageously high calyx-to-leaf ratio I have ever seen and I will be running this again).

Still to come down are a bunch of Yeag's MTFs that were put in at the third planting (mid-Nov) and the largest of which is a single cola that at the moment stands 24" tall, averages more than 4" in diameter, and is SOLID and has not even begun to ripen yet. HOly crapola batman.

No pics yet (camera died) but I give 2 thumbs up to nOOb hydro.

I ended up running only the canna aqua a+b , topmax, and molasses, no bloom boosters, city tap water, no pH adjustment (or even checking lol) after the hydroton had stabilized, only like 2 res changes during the whole grow... that doesn't count the couple overflows I had, lol. And I let the res get down VERY VERY low, even to dryness, pretty frequently. Oh- and temps were up into the 90's at several points during the grow. And I got mites, lol. I literally did everything wrong and still lucked out. The system is obviously VERY forgiving.

As a side note, if you don't want to come home and find a piece of your living room ceiling sitting on your sofa, an attic hydro system should have some type of secondary containment to catch res overflows or tubes popping off their fittings... For example, a frame of 2x6s around the perimeter of the room with a pond liner draped over them...

[Rock.Steady]

.......

I ended up running only the canna aqua a+b , topmax, and molasses, no bloom boosters, city tap water, no pH adjustment (or even checking lol) after the hydroton had stabilized, only like 2 res changes during the whole grow... that doesn't count the couple overflows I had, lol. And I let the res get down VERY VERY low, even to dryness, pretty frequently. Oh- and temps were up into the 90's at several points during the grow. And I got mites, lol. I literally did everything wrong and still lucked out. ............

WeedHound is gonna lose her mind when she reads this:S2:

Nice job, get that cam crackin!:thumbsup:

[stinkyattic]

WeedHound is gonna lose her mind when she reads this
We are already less-than-sane here in the canncom grow forums as far as I can figure...

Nice job, get that cam crackin!
The first pic will have to be of the missing CHUNK of ceiling... that's fun. Calcium paint over horsehair plaster is a BITCH to restore... remove all loose chunks and vinegar wash first, dry, stabilize with oil-based primer (KILZ), patch with spackle and mudding-tape (I'm going for the woven sort rather than paper), dry, sand, and prime again, paint, reinstall hydro system upstairs, wait 2 months, do it all over again... :wtf:
I will do a plaster repair tutorial for y'alls amusement... :D

[stinkyattic]

1 and 2- Daddy's Girl bud from the hydro system. Frosty and wonderful, and when dried the pineapple smell really comes out more than the grapefruit. I'm getting RAVE reviews on her and everyone I know wants a cutting.
3- Yeag's MTF plant still in the system getting LARGE. Those are only 6" pots supporting that monster...

[hydrocannabis]

ho big was it by harvest time?

and da buds look bangen.:D :thumbsup: :jointsmile:

[GaGrown]

Stinky, why do you choose to use the HPS on your mama's? Is it that it's what you have, and it's your spare, or do you favor the HPS for veg. Because that is my choice of light source.Veg and flower.Just curious! You never fail to help me!

Ga Grown!;)

[Rock.Steady]

Stinky, that looks YUMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

well done!
2 thumbs up!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[stinkyattic]

To answer the 'how big' question, what you see is what you get- that bud was an entire plant. It also had about a half dozen fan leves on it, but I cut them off when I harvested it.
I only use the HPS in flower. The confusion over mothers under HPS is that my focus is actually on clone production rather than bud production, and I often have old retired mothers kicking around who have outlives their usefulness as clone donors, so I toss them into flower. When they are in veg, I keep them under T12 shop lights with cool white tubes until I need to harvest cuttings off them, then I put them under my MH400 and hit them with N for a week, then feed them bloom fert for another week, then harvest cuttings. The bloom fert is good because a mom at the point of being cut should be very slightly N starved and have plenty of P available so the clones will root well.
Thank you Rock. For an experiment, I thought it came out rather well.

[basementbotany]

beautiful nugs! hope to be at your level of the game soon.

[stinkyattic]

Everything is down and cleared out.

I've been scrubbing the troughs and about to run the pots through the dishwasher to prepare the setup for another round.

Now we clean hydroton... :D
Shown is a big bin with all the hydroton that the system used (equivalent to a 5 gallon pail full) and about 4 gallons of water with 40 mL cannazyme and an airstone in it. I've removed the chunks of root matter. I'm going to let that sit for about a week and then rinse it off and adjust the pH for re-use.

One thing I noticed with this system is that there is no need to adjust the res temp. Since everything is spilling over hydroton all the time, and cascading through air, it stays at approximately ambient air temperature- so if the room is at proper temp, so is the res.

It's the same deal with the airstone. It was completely unneccessary and I removed it early in the grow. The cascading action is enough to keep the res aerated.

I highly recommend this method to aspiring hydro growers.

And then we smoke the spoils! I'm a bit thunderfucked at the moment... :drool:

Uh oh... what's that under the domes? Could it be... noooo... but it IS!

OMGWTF!

TO BE CONTINUED.....

[Weedhound]

wow, I've been off track from this thread for awhile.

LOVE those colas! Beautiful. Going to grow some DG this summer outside and hopefully get a few clones (IF I can figure out cloning)

As for temps and ph etc.....my favorite saying is that's its all good.....right up until you have a problem. Stinkster didn't get a problem so she wins. :thumbsup: Unfortunately, I've had WAY too many so it behooves me to check carefully. ;)

[stinkyattic]

Lol!
I can't say that the grow went perfectly, either... I did end up with some toxic salt crap at the end because I wasn't changing the res often enough, but the effort-to-harvest ratio was very low, and in my book, that's great!
Watch out Hound, before we know it, Reaper will return to the internet, only to discover that his 'Daddy's Girl' is the new 'It Girl'! I'm doing my part to spread the love across New England. She's such a cutie.

[Rock.Steady]

and what might THAT be, under ye ole dome?????

inquiring minds need to know:wtf::D

im also gettin ready for a journey into the moistness;)

[stinkyattic]

and what might THAT be, under ye ole dome?????
Uh oh trrrubble. Rock's comin' to town...
Under the dome may or may not be a fresh round of clones with some real winners in the group...
Stinky may or may not have gotten her hands on some members of the Diesel/Chem family recently...
Only time will tell! ;)

[stinkyattic]

Oh noes... I see plaster repair in my near future...
:(

[rottenfork]

I can plaster, if you need a few repairs done,
ive got All the tools!!! he he:D

[stinkyattic]

Duuude. Plaster party at Stinky's. I've got a few tools of my own... and I'm not afraid to use them! Mwahahahahahaa!

[rottenfork]

Sounds good to me, is that ceiling falling down because of you spilling water all over the attic floor, ooops, naughty naughty:stoned:

[stinkyattic]

Ehhh operator error lol... I bumped one of the lines refilling my res one day and didn't stick around long enough to notice that the return water was now hitting the pump line and being directed to ... elsewhere... not the res...

Luckily I own the place so it's a matter of not being a lazy bum and getting up on my Little Giant (those things are bad ass!!!).

Plus, as I might have stated earlier in the thread, one of the major advantages to the waterfall NFT is the res size can be quite small- even in the 5 gallon pail I ended up running only a 3-4 gallon nute solution, so the damage wasn't as bad as it would have been had I run a flood-n-drain of the same size off a 30 gallon res! :eek:

[QWIDGYBO]

No disrespect but for a beginner I don't think that system is the best. IMO there is no easier system than an Ebb/Flow table. Why? Well temp control, operation, nute changes, margin for error are all superior. I believe that net pots filled with hydroton and not rockwool for the reusability, on an ebb/flow table would be better. No plumbing either. Although I must say for the effort it takes to clean hydroton and the low price of rockwool, with the beginner in mind it is worth buying. Plants will easily last 3-7 days in moist rockwool should the pump fail. Where I live ebb/flow tables are quite inexpensive which is why after about a year of considering all the different methods I have chosen Ebb/Flow SOG. I realise people wanting to grow plants other than donkey dicks may find it a little difficult but as far as producing perpetual, gram/watt yeilds I think it is unmatched.

Just my 2 cents.

[stinkyattic]

The ebb/flow table takes extra equipment and maintenance (pump must be on a timer and flood schedule needs to be dialed in).
The res size is much larger.
The res will need to be aerated by an additional piece of equipment, whereas the vertical NFT self- aerates.
If you use net pots, they must be sunk in some substrate or protected from light in some manner. You can use the same pots I used in an ebb n flow though.
There is in fact plumbing for an ebb/flow.
How do I know this stuff? I used to run one. It was fine. My friends run them. They are fine. They have reservoir dumps too- one guy flooded his house with his 40 gallon res. Operator error of course, but you know. Plus the expense of purchasing a large res puts some people off who are looking to try out hydro for the first time with little investment.

I'm not sure what that jab about donkey dicks was all about- do you have a problem with me that I'm not aware of? Where in this thread was Donkey Dick even mentioned?

[QWIDGYBO]

The ebb/flow table takes extra equipment and maintenance (pump must be on a timer and flood schedule needs to be dialed in).
A feeding schedule is quite simple to formulate and the timer is as self-explanatory as they come.



The res size is much larger.
Much larger than what?



The res will need to be aerated by an additional piece of equipment, whereas the vertical NFT self- aerates.
I don't think that's all together true. When the draining occurs air is sucked into the root area. I think using an air pump would improve growth rates but IMO it is not a neccessity. Only in wall to wall, high density grows is it really needed IMO.



If you use net pots, they must be sunk in some substrate or protected from light in some manner. You can use the same pots I used in an ebb n flow though.
Hydroton would do...



There is in fact plumbing for an ebb/flow.
How do I know this stuff? I used to run one. It was fine. My friends run them. They are fine. They have reservoir dumps too- one guy flooded his house with his 40 gallon res. Operator error of course, but you know.
What plumbing? Fixing the flood/drain fittings?
House flooding like that is ridiculously uncommon...



Plus the expense of purchasing a large res puts some people off who are looking to try out hydro for the first time with little investment.
They must be expensive over your way...



I'm not sure what that jab about donkey dicks was all about- do you have a problem with me that I'm not aware of? Where in this thread was Donkey Dick even mentioned?
That was not a jab but nonetheless I am sorry if I caused offence. I was merely talking about my personal situation. I am a SOG enthusiast.

[stinkyattic]

You know what? This was meant to be an instructional log, not an argument over why I'm doing it wrong. So if you are interested in starting your own log showing noobs how to build, run, and maintain an ebb and flow system from scratch, that's great, and I promise I won't come in at the end and write an essay about why mine was better, okay?

-The timer may be self-explanatory as a piece of equipment, but the flood schedule is NOT. I've spent enough time in grow troubleshooting forums to see that yes, indeed, new growers have trouble matching their flood cycles to their plant size, temps, light intensity, and ambient humidity.

-For the same number of plants, the amount of water needed to flood a table vs. keep them constantly wetted using flow is much higher. Were I to have run flood n drain on this system, it would have been a 30 gallon res MINIMUM vs. the 4 gallons I used. This is a very efficient use of water and nutrients.

-You need an airstone in your reservoir to keep the nutrient solution aerated. That's what I was talking about. This prevents unwanted chemical reactions among nutrient components, and inhibits undesirable bacterial growth, as the level of dissolved gases is kept constant (=areobic).

-Hydroton WOULD do. I used to run a BED of hydroton. As with the reservoir, the system required a solid 5x the hydroton that the containerized one needed to be filled correctly. The idea behind the containers is that they not only hold the rootball, but protect it from light, using a bare minimum of pebbles. I also found that at the end of the grow, this system required much less cleaning. The flow action kept the pebbles completely free of algae and slime.

-Maybe you haven't met enough people who have flooded their grow areas. I have. A friend recently had to re-carpet his back room due to a reservoir problem. I believe it was a stray bit of hydroton blocking the drain pipe, and 50 gallons of Canna stains like a motherfucker when it dries.

-Yes. 'Over my way' a 5 gallon pail is $4 and a 40 gallon reservoir is the same as it is 'over your way' if the local hydro shop orders through NGW:
707163http://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/images/spacer.gif50 GAL EZ DRAIN LIDhttp://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/images/spacer.gif$59.95http://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/images/spacer.gifhttp://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/images/spacer.gifhttp://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/images/spacer.gif707164http://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/images/spacer.gif50 GAL EZ DRAIN RESERVOIRhttp://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/images/spacer.gif$115.95http://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/images/spacer.gifhttp://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/images/spacer.gifThat's about $175 for the set. Plus shipping.

If you had read earlier in it as well, you would have seen that another major goal was to develop a cheap system that would break down into small components and fit in the back of a compact car for ease of moving. Mine does just that- the entire volume of hydroton needed to run it just happens to EXACLTY fill up the 5 gallon pail that had been used as the res, all the tubing rolls up into a shopping bag, and the two leach trays nest together into a 4'x6"x6" package, whcih can be stuffed in a large duffel bag. Try doing that with a 4x4 ebb n flow table and the associated reservoir.

Hope this explains why I made this log.

[QWIDGYBO]

You know what? This was meant to be an instructional log, not an argument over why I'm doing it wrong. So if you are interested in starting your own log showing noobs how to build, run, and maintain an ebb and flow system from scratch, that's great, and I promise I won't come in at the end and write an essay about why mine was better, okay?
Touchy aren't we? Would you agree it is not a good idea to post a tutorial for beginners if it is not the most effective? I apologise for the discussion. Hardly an argument though...I merely wanted to hear your thoughts on the alternative. Again I apologise. I don't think plumbing is the answer for beginners. Pure and simple...
But I digress, clearly you do not wish to continue this conversation so I will not bother...

[stinkyattic]

I really DON'T wish to continue this conversation but it has nothing to do with being touchy, so how about you keep that opinion to yourself. I consider it more of a threadjack.

And I consider this to be a VERY streamlined and simple system for a beginner to assemble. There is a very good reason that the owner of the local hydro shop has one of these things tucked in amongst the 'floor models' of Aero, Ebb n Flow, and even an Omega that those of us with deeper pockets can afford, and it is full of lush, healthy pepper plants.

The plumbing is a matter of poking holes in flexi and sticking barbed fittings in them. A fifth-grader could do it.
Effective as in giving commercial yields in a dedicated grow room? Sure, flood and drain does that.
Effective as in a small system that fits in an average sized hall closet ( footprint 18" x 5 feet) and gives very respectable yields with minimal hassle? There's not a damn thing wrong with the vertical NFT. If you are interested in busting apart grow styles, go find a Phototron thread and tell them all the reasons it doesn't make sense...

Obviously, you are FAR beyond a beginner, so I don't even see why you are bothering with this discussion... Every troll knows it is FAR more satisfying to get a rise out of a mod with 13,000 posts than a member with 200. I hope you are enjoying yourself.

[QWIDGYBO]

The plants were half dead, res changes were often and yet still not enough, significant plumbing required and pump failure results in likely death...Unless you perfected this I wouldn't recommend it but hey you know more than I do...:hippy:
I'd be interested to see how they fair at 80+ res temps...

EDIT - Simple Plumbing...But still...

[stinkyattic]

Dude, get lost.

Half dead? Whatever man. The finest shit I've EVER smoked came off a couple of those plants. I didn't pre-treat my hydroton, which resulted in stress from rising pH, and mangled the roots putting the clones in- both issues that were avoidable had I asked the guy at the shop, 'hey, how do you put rooted clones in HT, and do you have to pre-treat it?' My day temps were in the low 90s and my night temps dropped into the 50s regularly. This you would have read if you had bothered to read the thread before coming on here and acting all smug.

Res changes were NOT often- another thing you would have noticed. I think I did a total of 3 complete res changes the whole fucking grow. Your point...?

Pump failure does NOT result in likely death if you live there! This is not a commercial set it and forget it grow! Just for giggles, I turned off my pump at the end and left the remaining plants under just a shop light. After a WEEK they were still not wilting. Then I chopped them. I assume that the grower is going to stick his head in the closet once a day to see if everything is running.. is that too much to ask?

Did you notice this thread was a learning experience for me too?
Did you see me laughing at my own failures?
Did you see that I am about to set it up again for another run, with the lessons I've learned?
Did you notice the thread is NOT a sticky, and not in the FAQs?
Hell, did you even read the whole thread (apparently not)?

THIS WAS FOR FUN.

What in the holy hell is your PROBLEM?

[QWIDGYBO]

Oh you also said it overflowed twice...;)

[stinkyattic]

Oh aren't you the observant one. I was counting that in my total 3 res changes, smartypants.

Got any other nits to pick? Here... have some Rid...

[QWIDGYBO]

Quite a system you've got there. All those mistakes and still the best yandi you've ever smoked...:D
Clearly even the sun shines on a dogs arse once and a while...

[stinkyattic]

That's quite a tan you've got by the way...

[QWIDGYBO]

That's quite a tan you've got by the way...

LOL............:thumbsup:.......I knew there were still americans that can take a joke. I was just rippin ya to get my post count up...:D

[stinkyattic]

LOL............:thumbsup:.......I knew there were still americans that can take a joke. I was just rippin ya to get my post count up...:D
That's what that rip was? ...pheew go rip elsewhere, that Mexican food you had for lunch is bothering my nostrils.

Seriously though, we could use some help troubleshooting in the hydro section... As I've said time and time again... I'm not a hydro person. Really.

[rhizome]

This guy was proudly planning his first garden as of Oct 2007- I don't think he's gonna be much help.

[stinkyattic]

Right right.
Let's see that would make one full crop cycle from seed or two full crop cycles from clone.
Hey, what can I say, you can pack a lot o' learnin' into 4 months! ESPECIALLY if nothing goes wrong! It is through our mistakes that we actually learn shit...
:thumbsup:

[QWIDGYBO]

This guy was proudly planning his first garden as of Oct 2007- I don't think he's gonna be much help.

If you went through my research you would see the custom systems I have planned along with the knowledge I have gained from some of the very best at ICMAG including the infamous Lucas...
I have not the time nor the inclination to help others with their hydro problems...As you said I have been planning my own grow for quite some time...I think if more people did what I am doing you wouldn't have 2000 repeat questions every two mins. Or members tht need constant counselling...Which is why when I do finally attempt a grow I will reserve the entire first page for a concise grow log - If this forum allows it...

[QWIDGYBO]

As I've said time and time again... I'm not a hydro person. Really.

Yes that is quite evident...

Oh snap...:D

[stinkyattic]

I have not the time nor the inclination to help others with their hydro problems...So you are here only to heckle? Not to participate? Just what we need.


..I think if more people did what I am doing you wouldn't have 2000 repeat questions every two mins. Or members tht need constant counselling...
What you are doing: Trolling, essentially.
So, yes. If more people did what you are doing, we wouldn't have repeat questions because we wouldn't have any MEMBERS left to ask them. By the way, we don't even have 2000 posts total per day on the entire site, Mister Precision! We are all here to learn and teach each other. Constant counseling is not a bad thing if it's done in good humour.


Which is why when I do finally attempt a grow I will reserve the entire first page - If this forum allows it...This forum does not allow that.
So wait, you are saying 'when I do finally attempt a grow'? Oh. My. Goodness.

Let me say something formally, on the record:
I'm unimpressed with your tone in this thread, and less so now that you, never having completed a grow, have the gall to not only pick apart someone else's learning experience, but then say that you have no inclination to help others with their problems. I STRONGLY recommend that you return tothe other site you speak of. I'm quite familiar with the tone of things on the other side of the pond. Try taking this attitude over there and see how long it takes before you feel REALLY welcome, huh?

Now I'm telling you for the last time: You are not welcome on this thread. Please go do something productive elsewhere, that does not involve trying to pick fights that you won't win. I am NOT the one.

Edit... Didn't see your last post. Looks like someone needs an afternoon nap, because the babysitter is getting sick of this shit.

Oh, snap.

[DonkeyDickMan]

Well this thread sure went downhill...Not that it was ever brilliant...:D

[stinkyattic]

Welcome back, quidg... you guys don't have baseball in Australia do you? The 3 strikes rule applies here... straighten up and ride out your ban like a champ or you and your IP are history.

Thanks for sullying what was, in fact, a rather fun thread. :thumbsup:

[Penguinman]

If I recall it was you that first started the friction by saying I had a jab at you. It appeared to me that you were looking for an argument and I guess in my haze riddled mind I took it the wrong way...Look I offer my heartfelt apology to you and any members I have disrupted. If I serve out say 5 days and promise not to be hostile or aggressive to anyone again may I have another chance? I do want to contribute just by posting logs. Thats all...Again I am sorry...:thumbsup:

[stinkyattic]

The Donkey Dick jab made sense considering my current grow log has that strain in the title and you were obviously just trying to start shit. I still don't believe that it was a coincidence. I don't go out of my way to troll. Nor do I go out of my way to ridicule the grows of others.

IF you had been serious about getting on well with other members, you would NOT have made this as your first post after the ban:
"Well this thread sure went downhill...Not that it was ever brilliant...http://boards.cannabis.com/../images/smilies/biggrin.gif"

I warned you in the ban message that creating a new username will result in another ban.

You created yet ANOTHER username, which is now permanently banned.

This last one is also going to be permanently banned.

So the threat of being removed from canncom permanently really makes you change your tune fast. Considering your statements above as to your attitude etc, plus the re-registering, the bans all stand as they are. The only reason I am not going to ban your IP permanently is this apology. You may return as QUIDGYBO when your bans run out. The standard is 30 additional days per additional username created during the ban period. Your ban period is 60 days. You get penguinman as a freebie.

In the future, please conduct communication via email, which all mods have listed in their siggys or profiles. Thank you.

[rottenfork]

Wow! that was epic!!!!!!!!

[Rock.Steady]

also known as
the slap that was heard around the world

couldnt resist:D

[Weedhound]

Wow.....what a pathetic soul that is. Could we have less of a genuine life? Good riddance imo.

[stinkyattic]

Wow.....what a pathetic soul that is. Could we have less of a genuine life?
*Sniff* I tried... but Life didn't want anything to do with me... :(

Anyway... heh heh...

Here's the wrap-up... and I'm going to post this info as the first post in a new log...

What has Stinky learned from her crash course?

-Minimize plumbing= excessive on the small scale
The idea of the manifold-style plumbing might be important to equalize pressure in a larger-scale system, but in a little one like this, it was WAY overkill and ended up tangling, there were more spots to leak, and yes, the operator could easily shift it by mistake and end up with a spill.
I have resolved this by building a more streamlined emitter out of flexi.
The easy way to make flexi uncurl when it has been sold in rolled-up bundles is to put a few cups of water in the bottom of a wok set on low heat with a wire rack across it, and steam it until it softens. Take a bulldog clip and hang it by one end from the ceiling. I know you guys all have ceiling hooks, lol!!!
The new emitter is a single piece of 1/2" flexi with a half-dozen small holes cut in it with an X-Acto, and 1/4" T- fittings punched into it, and folded over at one end to seal. The thing took me 10 minutes to make... so much for plumbing being too hard for a n00b... :wtf:
The individual courses to the plants are 1/4" flexi where one side is longer than the other so I can secure the main line OVER one trough and even if the connections suck and it drips, it's dripping into the plants, not on the floor.

-Pre-treat your hydroton before adding live plants to the system if you care about them remaining live plants. Running the system empty for a week allows time to troubleshoot plumbing, inpsect for clogs, and monitor the res pH until it stabilizes.

-Cornucopia is not as forgiving as a n00b without an EC meter needs and I am now going to stick with Canna Aqua (yay, it's buffered!) since as someone above pointed out I'm completely full of shit and don't know a thing about hydro. I'll return to it at a later date when I have proper meters... lol

-More frequent res changes might be in order, and a more stable temperature is an absolute necessity!

On the PLUS side...

-The aeration from the action of the waterfall was fabulous
-The bud development was actually superior to my soil-grown plants coming out of the same room during that same time period
-It was as compact as hoped for
-It was dirt-ass cheap to build
-That $15 'ECO' pump is a champ; the res ran dry innumerable times and it is still working magnificently
-It fits beautifully under $16 worth of Home DePOT shop lights for those of you who would be vegging in it for a little while
-I saw no evidence that any plants were rootbound to the point of unhappiness at harvest time even though the roots were DEFINITELY a big clump of rootiness
-Despite gross operator negligence, the freakin' thing WORKED

That was quite a learning experience that's fo sho. See ya in the next log!

[Weedhound]

It'll work better your next time too.....;)

[melodious fellow]

That shit was the funniest shit I have read in a week.

The punch line:

"When I begin my first grow"

HAHAHAHAHAHA :rastasmoke:

[d4twamp]

Hey Stinky, I thank you for all your time and effort here...

And keep brushin of them haters, can't believe that fool said "when I start my first grow" lol absolutly ridiculous. I'm still a noob but have learned so much from your posts as well as Weedhounds just keep it up

later, D:S5:

[stinkyattic]

Hey cool~ good timing on the bump too; the big chunk of white plastic mentioned at the end of the Donkey Dick thread has just found a new spot... some cuttings have just grown some new feets... Stink's stocked up on a fresh supply of Canna juice... heh heh heh...

[FlyGuyOU]

dang this thread got feisty, but stink im wondering how do you go about putting seeds in hydroton? i was thinking maybe of putting the sprouts in a dixie cup of perilite first and then into the hydroton? is that smart? or should i just carefully place the sprout in amongst the balls? im just starting a constant flow hydro...

[d4twamp]

Fly guy, you gotta germ them seeds 1st then put them into your choice of rooter plug/oasis cube/ rockwool or you might be able to root them in perlite like you said and then go into the net pot w/hydroton like you would transplant a rooted clone from an ez cloner...just make sure they are well rooted then they can go in your constant flow system

D:S5:

[FlyGuyOU]

right on, obviously rooter plugs would be preferred, i just havent been able to find any in my town...ima check out tractor supply today if they have anything i'd need...

[stinkyattic]

Wanna hear something funny? I have heard mutterings of growers using- NOT KIDDING- fibreglass insulation as a medium. I'd treat it exactly as rockwool, soaking it in quite a large excess of water set to pH 6.0.

I've never used the shit but would be interested to see someone run an experiment with bagseed to see if you can get seedlings to survive the requisite ~10-14 days or so from germ to the time when they are rooty enough to go into the hydroton. Actually, a little plug of fiberglass in a net pot of hydroton, hand-watered until they root enough to go into your automated system.

Chances are there's some fibreglass poking out of the cracks atop your basement sills... lol... you on;y need a tiny piece. Who's up for an experiment? :D

[d4twamp]

my best wishes on YOUR new experiment Stinky...
btw I just got HT's oct issue and was wondering which brown bag was the Stinkster masked by...lol...props again on the nuggs n juggs 4th place win...the thing with the juggs is " you've seen one you've seen em all " but I could look at, and sample, different strains of NUGGS and never feel like it's the same stuff I've seen before..

thanks keep doing what you do

D:S5:

[stinkyattic]

lol... the paper bag portrait was my idea, and I spent half a day trying to find a place that would sell me a hundred bags, and ended up having to drive to a paper factory to get a case of them... and I didn't even get notified that the pic was being taken... so I'm not in it. Oh well, the jacket I was wearing that day woulda made your eyes bleed anyhow. So it's best stashed in my closet where it can't harm anyone.

I'm trying to disappear lately actually... making a mention in HT isn't helping. Hahaha! But thanks so much for the kind words.

[lunarose]

Has anyone ever tried using a portable live well? I would think the aerators here is a copy of one's description:
These aerators from Frabill are just the ticket for keeping those minnows lively in the bait bucket. Whether you're hitting the frozen lakes in search of an ice angling adventure, taking the boat out for an evening on the lake, or just kicking back on the shore of some pond, your fishing expedition will be that much better with fresh minnows.
# Available: Aerator - Extremely portable and easy to use, this handy aerator comes complete with a 30" nonkink hose and a high-output air stone. Powered by two D-cell batteries.
# Min-O-Life Aerator - Watertight case is ideal for use in any weather. Built-in LED makes it easy to rebait your hook after dark. Includes 30" nonkink hose and aeration stone.
# Aqua-Life Portable Aerator - A microbubble diffuser creates a cloud of tiny bubbles. Built-in LED for night fishing. Triple-play power (two D-cell, 12-volt adapter or 120-volt adapter port). Includes 30" nonkink hose.

Some work up to 60 hours on battery if the power goes out and the tanks themselves are insulated so that would help with the temps, come in all sorts of sizes from 4 gallons all the way to 30g

Anyway just wondering

[d4twamp]

Luna, I haven't tried it but it's been on my mind.. I made a bubble cloner and was thinking if I took some cuts from a plant a county or two away. I could theoretically put them in the cloner there, hook the cloner's air line up to the livewell aerator and transport my cuts in hydro, bubbling while I'm on my drive home then hook it up to the main air pump at home.. at least that's the plan.

D

[Rock.Steady]

...I'm trying to disappear lately actually... making a mention in HT isn't helping.....

oh???
you too??
thought it was just SNS,,,, haha, gotta catch up on my reading!:cool:

[daihashi]

Why i've never read this thread before.. I have no idea.

I will definitely be using the information in this thread to either mimic it entirely.. or to base a new design around it.

However the current design looks so fool proof I'm not sure there is much that I would change aside from a few things that have nothing to do with design at all (ie presoak the hydrotron). :thumbsup:

great article and it looks like a great way to get into hydro.

[Revanche21]

Hey stinky!

I don't want to get banned but

I have experience with soil once and hydro once and my current 3rd grow is hydro again, and your setup sort of confuses me and I consider myself still a n00b and im confused with your n00b hydro setup :(

so, does the water get pumped to the black elongated trays and just flow under nearth the lil nets? and the roots chill there and get soaked when it flows downward toward the end of the elongated trays that drains it back into the resivoire? (crap i can't spell)

when you say plumbing do you mean water pumps?

I hear those can get clogged and set you back for days

:hippy:

[daihashi]

Hey stinky!

I don't want to get banned but

I have experience with soil once and hydro once and my current 3rd grow is hydro again, and your setup sort of confuses me and I consider myself still a n00b and im confused with your n00b hydro setup :(

so, does the water get pumped to the black elongated trays and just flow under nearth the lil nets? and the roots chill there and get soaked when it flows downward toward the end of the elongated trays that drains it back into the resivoire? (crap i can't spell)

when you say plumbing do you mean water pumps?

I hear those can get clogged and set you back for days

:hippy:

The water drops down on into the hydrotron, not underneath or on top. From there the water trickles around until it finally makes it's way back out of the pot. Once out of the pot it makes it's way into the leach tray which has to J fittings (skinny dump pipes) that flow back into the resevoir acting as a type of return system.

At least that's the way I understand it.

[daihashi]

I hear those can get clogged and set you back for days

:hippy:

In regards to the pump to keep on hand.. simple solution. Buy a spare until you can fix your current pump. The Eco 185 pumps are about $15.. the 66gph ones are 8 bucks, but I would probably stick with what's already been prove. The 185 pumps.

[Revanche21]

so its kinda like a bubbleponic DWC setup from stealthhydroponics, except its bubbleponic NFT?

[stinkyattic]

Why on earth would I ban you? lol silly...
They CAN get clogged and set your grow back, and set your living room ceiling back... yes, my ceiling needs re-plastering now because I didn't check for clogs for a week...

Check for clogs, and clean out your pump filter every week when you change the res. Scrape out any algae that has grown, as it WILL, in the res, at every change as well. Make sure the clay pebbles stay in the pots.

The water flows like a babbling brook down through the hydroton and along the roots. The tray is to hold the pots upright and direct the runoff water back into the res.

[Revanche21]

so is there a hose attached to each pot that drips water thru them?

[donnv1]

what effect does donkey dick have?says up high on vancouver seedbank but also says mostly indica.(like is it couchlock high giggly or whatever) cos i saw on a thread that u grew it

[cman20118ut]

i've been putting reading this thread on hold for quite some time as i like to read ms stinky's threads very thoroughly and i'm lookin to get one 1 more soil grow in before i adventure into the lovely world of hydro...terrific read madam

[Dutch Pimp]

:thumbsup:

[stinkyattic]

WEll, thanks!
News update on this one. This system found most recent use as a final leach system so that I may flower multiple strains in a ebb n flow tray, take them out, and flush them in a separate area so that res changes are based on the needs of the growing plants, not the ones being flushed.
Since I can no longer grow at my house (fuck you Ill, you narc), it is being set up to grow culinary herbs indoors over the winter.

[cman20118ut]

WEll, thanks!
News update on this one. This system found most recent use as a final leach system so that I may flower multiple strains in a ebb n flow tray, take them out, and flush them in a separate area so that res changes are based on the needs of the growing plants, not the ones being flushed.
Since I can no longer grow at my house (fuck you Ill, you narc), it is being set up to grow culinary herbs indoors over the winter.

I must be really out of the loop....what happened if you don't mind me asking

[Dutch Pimp]

(fuck you Ill, you narc),

this is a revolting development...Snoop, struck back?..or am I on the wrong page, again?

[stinkyattic]

You're on the right page. I can't discuss it. I should be okay, but I'm NOT happy to be trying to heat my house and buy groceries on the remains of my salary of the job from which I was just laid off... Nor are my med-legal friends (4 MS cases, a chronic-vomiting sufferer, and a guy with a partially severed spinal cord) going to be happy when the next round of clones they depend on for medication does not materialize. I'm PISSED. This has shaken my trust in people very badly and makes me want to crawl back into my den.

[cman20118ut]

well ma'am good luckwith the future and im looking forward to seeing you grow in your place soon enough

[texas grass]

keep your head up, im pretty sure youll pull through ok in the end
much respect
texas

[headshake]

You're on the right page. I can't discuss it. I should be okay, but I'm NOT happy to be trying to heat my house and buy groceries on the remains of my salary of the job from which I was just laid off... Nor are my med-legal friends (4 MS cases, a chronic-vomiting sufferer, and a guy with a partially severed spinal cord) going to be happy when the next round of clones they depend on for medication does not materialize. I'm PISSED. This has shaken my trust in people very badly and makes me want to crawl back into my den.

i'm sorry stinky! i can't stand narcs! i am not really a violent person, but i want to cut a narcs throat!

it does suck stinky, but you learned a lesson. i've learned my lesson too, that's why i don't leave my den!

-shake