In the beginning was the Word . . .

[JunkYard]

John 1:1-14

Your "personal" take? Christ himself? The Bible? Spirit? There are differing schools of thought concerning this "Word". What's yours?

Just curious . . .


Junk :hippy:

[jdmarcus59]

junkyard, have not seen you for awile how you doing?... the word. myself I hold to what the bible says, in John ch 1 it says In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God ,
and the Word was God....verse 14 the Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us

the word is christ. it is pretty clear on that one. the sun is out were iam at seattle area so
Iam going to the fair, take care see you latter, peace.

[JunkYard]

I'm doing great, jd. Thanks for asking. I was hoping there would be some familiars still around. :)

You believe Jesus was the Word; does this mean you also believe Jesus was God, then? I'm somewhat in agreement, jd. Only I view the Word to be what he possessed rather than what he was. Was Jesus [the man] in the beginning, or the [Spirit] that manifest itself in Christ bodily?


Junk

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I would have to say in the beginning there'd be God, not "the word". I know the word is god, but "the beginning" would predate language so the term "word" wouldn't have relevance yet. I'd have to say god would become the word, when there's somebody for it to be spoken to.

[JunkYard]

Did God actually 'become' or was he already?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Did God actually 'become' or was he already?


Well, what I usually hear is that god was already, existing forever without beginning. Of course then theists insist that the universe couldn't have existed forever, that it must have had a beginning, and a beginning must have a creator. But the creator himself.... on no, that just works out by itself, nobody had to create him.

[JunkYard]

:D

What about Christ, then? Was he God, or simply a vessel of God's essence (Spirit).

[jammin26]

could care less, more worried about junk becoming a problem

[JunkYard]

you are a cheeky one, aren't you? ;)

No worries, bro. We're all in this life together . . .

[jdmarcus59]

:D

What about Christ, then? Was he God, or simply a vessel of God's essence (Spirit).

christ was God, and is God, for he was in the begining with God
as it states in the beginning of the gospel of john.
Jesus christ is God in the flesh, Lord of all creation. and the lord
of the new creation. He is the expressed reflection of the invisible
God. He is eternal, preexistent, omnipotent, equal with the Father.He is supreme and complete. fore by Him all things were created, things in heaven and on the earth visible and invisible,
whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities, all things were created by him and for Him. He is before all things and in Him all things hold together.:)

[JunkYard]

Where does Christ state that he was God? I'm aware of the "I Am" references, and fully believe that Christ had the fullness of God within him bodily, but did he speak of himself when he taught, or of the father that dwelt in Him?

The Word was before Jesus [The Man] it is my opinion that the Word is eternal, unlike Jesus whom was born of a woman. I believe the Word is God's Spirit, that which was made manifest in Christ, and decreed before the beginning of the world.

[natureisawesome]

junkyard said:


You believe Jesus was the Word; does this mean you also believe Jesus was God, then? I'm somewhat in agreement, jd. Only I view the Word to be what he possessed rather than what he was. Was Jesus [the man] in the beginning, or the [Spirit] that manifest itself in Christ bodily?


John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.



John 14:10-11, 16-18.
10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake....

...16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.



1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


Jesus Christ is God in th flesh, just as the bible says. He is the word of God. He is one both with the father and the spirit. The word is Spirit, and is a manifestion of God's Spirit.

[natureisawesome]

Gandolf said:


Well, what I usually hear is that god was already, existing forever without beginning. Of course then theists insist that the universe couldn't have existed forever, that it must have had a beginning, and a beginning must have a creator. But the creator himself.... on no, that just works out by itself, nobody had to create him.

That's because God is eternal.

[natureisawesome]

junkyard:


Where does Christ state that he was God?

several times. How about I am the way, the truth and the light. And the I am statement, he conceded right there. And in the above post I made. And others I believe.


The Word was before Jesus [The Man] it is my opinion that the Word is eternal, unlike Jesus whom was born of a woman. I believe the Word is God's Spirit, that which was made manifest in Christ, and decreed before the beginning of the world.

It says he is the word not has the word.

[JunkYard]

junkyard:



several times. How about I am the way, the truth and the light. And the I am statement, he conceded right there. And in the above post I made. And others I believe.



It says he is the word not has the word.

â??God is loveâ?� (1 John 4:7-17) Love is the very essence or â??Spiritâ?� of God, and Christ was the manifestation of that essence. Jesus was Godâ??s only begotten son; the fullness of God dwelt within His human body. (Colossians 2:9) This does not suggest that Christ was God himself, but rather a vessel of Godâ??s spirit. Born of the flesh and of the Spirit, Christ possessed both a divine nature and a human nature. He experienced the human struggle fully, yet through the indwelling of Godâ??s Spirit, he was able to conquer the carnal attributes of his flesh .

(John 1:1-14)

1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2. The same was in the beginning with God.
3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The scripture quoted above speaks of the Word of God and its manifestation in Christ, the only â??begottenâ?? of the father. When reading these passages, it is helpful to keep in mind that when Christ taught, he did not teach of himself, (The man) but of the father that dwelt in him. (The Spirit) This helps to form a more accurate view when discerning Johns teaching on the Word, imo.

Christ himself speaks of the Word as being something he possessed rather than something he was; this suggests to me that Jesus was not the literal Word, but rather a vessel for the Word.

John 5:24 24.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 8:31-32

31. Jesus therefore said to those Jews that had believed him, If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples;
32. and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Christ speaks of Godâ??s â??Spiritâ?� in John 14, which again, is the fullness of God that dwelt within him bodily. Christ and the father were in complete unity through this spirit, and of one accord. (See also: John 10:30)

(John 14:10-11)

10. Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Those who embrace Godâ??s word are made clean through its power. Christ speaks of this to His disciples whom had received it in heart. They followed Christ in truth, becoming one with Him, and in unity with the spirit that dwelt in Him. We are to do the same, becoming Christâ??s disciples also. We are to worship God in the beauty of holiness, and in spirit, and in truth. Only with a pure love can we do this.

(John 15:1--17)

1. "I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.
2. Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
3. You are already made clean by the word which I have spoken to you.
4. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
5. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
6. If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned.
7. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you.
8. By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be my disciples.
9. As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you; abide in my love.

10. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
11. These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.
12. "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
13. Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14. You are my friends if you do what I command you.
15. No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.
16. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
17. This I command you, to love one another.

Christ tells us above to abide in his love, which is Godâ??s â??Wordâ?�, whereby we are made clean, becoming his disciples. This was stated previously by Christ in John 8:31-32 "If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." Godâ??s word is His Spirit, which manifest itself in Christ. Born of this Spirit, (Godâ??s essence) Christ commanded that we love one another as he has loved us. Paul also speaks to this in Ephesians:

(Ephesians 3:14-19)

14. For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,
15. from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named,
16. that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with might through his Spirit in the inner man,
17. and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
18. may have power to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,
19. and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

The only way to comprehend Godâ??s fullness, is by experiencing His love on a personal level. Through His love we die to our natural selves and become a new man â??createdâ?? in the likeness of God. We die to that which harms us inwardly, and to the things which cause us to offend others. We in short die to sin, and to the roots thereof. We can accomplish nothing of ourselves, but through the Spirit, we become new creatures in Christ.

Christ is our salvation, but he wasn't God, imo. He was God's only 'begotten' son, full of God's Grace and Truth.


Junk

[Pass That Shit]

Jesus is the Father
Jesus is the Son
Jesus is the Holy Spirit

I can back it up with scripture if you like. :jointsmile:

[Hardcore Newbie]

Jesus is the Father
Jesus is the Son
Jesus is the Holy Spirit

I can back it up with scripture if you like. :jointsmile:Where have you been? I haven't seen you around for a while. then again, I do frequent the boards

And when has anyone ever had a problem finding scripture to back up their view? :p

[Pass That Shit]

My wife and daughter just got back from France this week. I've been spending time with them. :thumbsup:

And you are correct about backing it up with scripture. The bible appears to contradict itself, but it really doesn't.
People use scripture to say what they like, but we need to compare scripture with scripture to come to the truth.
The word fits together perfectly like your favorite puzzle. :jointsmile:

[JunkYard]

Jesus is the Father
Jesus is the Son
Jesus is the Holy Spirit

I can back it up with scripture if you like. :jointsmile:

I'd love to have a discussion on this, if only to expand my own view. :hint hint:

We're bringing out the Big Book boys!! :D

Btw, how are the ladies? Your decorated WW looked pretty good last christmas. :cool:

Junk

[natureisawesome]

"...they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US."

--MATTHEW 1:23



John 8:12

12Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

He didn't say I have the light of this world. He said I am. God is the light of this world.


Jesus]...author of eternal salvation...
-- Heb 5:9


"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11

Jesus is the only Saviour.
...the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 1 John 4:14

...our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 3:18

...God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 1:1

...the Christ, the Saviour of the world. John 4:42

...the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. Titus 1:4

a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11

Neither is there salvation in any other (than Jesus): for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
--Acts 4:12


Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; .....

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. .


I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself. Isaiah 44:24

U]nto the Son he saith...Thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands. Hebrews 1:10

y him (Jesus) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth...all things were created by him, and for him. Colossians 1:16

All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. John 1:3


I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 41:4

Jesus said, "Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:17


"[W]ho can forgive sins but [B]God only?" Mark 2:7

Jesus...said..."Son, thy sins be forgiven thee." Mark 2:5



... Then saith Jesus unto him... Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:10

While [Jesus] spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him... Matthew 9:18

And again, when [God] bringeth in the firstbegotten [Jesus] into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Hebrews 1:6

And Thomas answered and said unto [Jesus], My Lord and my God. John 20:28


...unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder...and his name shall be called... The mighty God, The everlasting Father... Isaiah 9:6


I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another... Isaiah 42:8

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5

[A]ll men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 5:23

But unto the Son he [God] saith, Thy throne, O God is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8



And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Exodus 3:14

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58

[O Lord God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself. Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a reward to the proud. Psalms 94:1-2


[Abraham to God]...Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? Genesis 18:25

[T]he Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: John 5:22


[T]he Father hath life in himself; John 5:26

In [Jesus] was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1:4


"...CHRIST JESUS...being in the FORM OF GOD, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

--Philippians 2:5-8


"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: and THESE THREE ARE ONE."
--1 John 5:7


"Hereby perceive we the love of GOD, because he LAID DOWN HIS LIFE for us...
--1 John 3:16


"And they stoned Stephen, calling upon GOD, and saying, LORD JESUS, receive my spirit."
--Acts 7:59


"GOD...hath in these last days spoken unto us by his SON...who being the brightness of his glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON..."

--Hebrews 1:1-3



"For in [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
-- Colossians 2:9



"The voice of him [John the Baptist] that crieth in the wilderness, PREPARE ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway FOR OUR GOD."

-- Isaiah 40:3


"The Jews answered [Jesus], saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
-- John 10:33


2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1 John 4:2-4


Revelation 17:14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

I confess that Jesus Christ is God, that he is come in the flesh.

[JunkYard]

I can see that, natureisawsome. How about we go through these in context? S.L.O.W.L.Y let me get a feel of where 'you' are coming from. :cool:

There is no doubt in my mind that Jesus came in the flesh. That is not where we are in disagreement. Christ revealed to us the truth and he showed to us the light of God. Through His life, His death, and His resurrection, we have heard the â??word â??of the father, and have been made known the power, the all encompassing love of God, which is the good news of Christâ??s gospel.

Junk

[Hardcore Newbie]

Take this in jest but.....

BIBLE FIGHT :p

[natureisawesome]

aliright Junkyard, let's start with this one:





John 20:27-29

27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


This is crazy junkyard, there is no other interpreation. I showed you numerous examples. JUst believe. JEsus Christ is God, and if you deny him you deny the father. Why do you think they called him LORD? That's a title for GOD. " We have seen the LORD".

Here we ahve god speaking to his son, clearly adressing him as God. No confusion here:


But unto the Son he [God] saith, Thy throne, O God is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

[JunkYard]

Take this in jest but.....

BIBLE FIGHT :p

No fight here, Hardcore. The man might be on to something. :smokin:

[Pass That Shit]

JY,
Check out the link below to my current grow log. Don't overlook the video in the first post. :jointsmile:
----------------------------------------------

The biggest misconception about God is that he is three "persons". This is NOT sound doctrine. God is ONE.

I hear some preachers on here saying that Jesus is God, but not the Father.
If Jesus is God, but not the Father, then you are saying that there is more than one God. This is not true, cause God is ONE.

The most important teaching that most people fail to understand is that Jesus is both son of man and Son of God.
If you understand what this means, you can understand God.
The Son of God is God himself. God is a Spirit. The Lord is that Spirit. There is ONE Lord. Jesus is LORD.

The Son of God has no beginning of days or end of life. He has no decent. No father or mother. He abideth a high priest continually.
We know that Jesus (son of man) was born through Mary his mother, and Joseph was his father.

According to the bible, only the Father is to be worshipped. Didn't believers fall down and worship Jesus?

Jesus says that where two or three are gathered together in his name that he is there in the midst of them.
How can Jesus be present with them if he isn't the Holy Spirit?

Jesus says that if you see him, you see the Father. You don't see qualities, you see an image. Jesus is the image of the invisible God.

[natureisawesome]

Pass that s**t,

You are right that God is one and that Jesus is God.

But I just want to mention that I feel your user name is very crude, and I don't feel good about not saying aything. I feel It's not something Christ like and If God is in you I think it isn't a very good way to let Christ shine through you to the rest of the world. Not trying to attack you or anything, but just saying I can't possibly consider Christ saying " pass that s**t.

[JunkYard]

I'll attempt to explain my view as good as I can, cool?


The first scripture you quoted shows the separation between the son of man, and the father's Spirit dwelling in the Son of man; Thomas recognized both, Jesus as Lord, (Master) the inner dwelling of God's fullness the other. "My Lord and my God"

Jesus was the son of man, [Flesh] Christ the son of God. [Spirit] Christ means annointed one; annointed also refers to spirit, and/or oil in biblical language. Jesus would be correctly referred to as "Jesus the annointed one" Not "God"

Then there is Hebrews, and the part you failed to post:

Hebrews 1

1. IN MANY and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets;
2. but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world, or [ages]

Here, the author who is 'unknown' speaks about God's son. [Christ] "Through", which is a very curious word implies a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal, or occasional):

--after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause)...fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through(-out), to, wherefore, with(-in). In composition it retains the same general import.

VERY wide applications, imo. Consider also [world] which means "a Messianic period" or age


3. He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,


Again, this speaks of Christ who is now sitting at the right hand of the Father. If Christ was God, how can he be sitting at the right hand of the father?

o.k. so my head is hurting from research, lol.

Resume tomorrow?


Junk

[JunkYard]

JY,
Check out the link below to my current grow log. Don't overlook the video in the first post. :jointsmile:
----------------------------------------------

The biggest misconception about God is that he is three "persons". This is NOT sound doctrine. God is ONE.

I hear some preachers on here saying that Jesus is God, but not the Father.
If Jesus is God, but not the Father, then you are saying that there is more than one God. This is not true, cause God is ONE.

The most important teaching that most people fail to understand is that Jesus is both son of man and Son of God.
If you understand what this means, you can understand God.
The Son of God is God himself. God is a Spirit. The Lord is that Spirit. There is ONE Lord. Jesus is LORD.

The Son of God has no beginning of days or end of life. He has no decent. No father or mother. He abideth a high priest continually.
We know that Jesus (son of man) was born through Mary his mother, and Joseph was his father.

According to the bible, only the Father is to be worshipped. Didn't believers fall down and worship Jesus?

Jesus says that where two or three are gathered together in his name that he is there in the midst of them.
How can Jesus be present with them if he isn't the Holy Spirit?

Jesus says that if you see him, you see the Father. You don't see qualities, you see an image. Jesus is the image of the invisible God.

I can go with most of what you say, only the language bothers me. Christ was the manifestation of God's spirit; I get that. The fullness of deity dwelt within Him bodily; I get that. The son of man, son of God, I get that too. Only, the son of God was just that, the "son" of God. Can you separate "Christ" from Jesus; yes! He did it, and so can we. Can you separate God from Christ; yes. He did it, so can we. Jesus never exalted himself, but always sought to glorify the father. I imagine that when people worshiped him, they worshiped the Father within...not the image of the man!

Tell me, are you what you look like? Is your appearance you, or are you something else? Our bodies are images, PTS but they are not who we are. We are much more than our shells. We are defined by our characters, qualities, and spirit.

When I die, I pray God I'm not remembered by what I look like, lol. I pray I will be remembered by my contributions, my character, my inner qualities, and by the spirit I walked in. This is where God is in us, and we in God. All and in all through his spirit.

Jesus is Lord, or [Master] but he is not God himself; Christ was the essence of God, but only by the indwelling of God's spirit. Jesus was a Vessel, but not the father himself, only a full representation of the father "inwardly".

God's spirit is God's Word; Christ carried His Word to the cross. God raised Jesus from the Grave and several days later, he ascended to sit at the right hand of the father.

That's the beauty of salvation. A son of man exalted to such a level is not a thing to overlook. If he were infact God, our faith is in vain (IMO) Jesus conquered his human attributes through God's spirit, and we are to follow in his footsteps. He did not leave us comfortless, he is recieving us to himslef daily.

The Bible is fairly clear about who christ was, and about his relationship with the Father.

God is the source, all things radiate from God. God's spirit is God's essence, and Christ was the manifestation of God's essence. All of which share a common bond . . .


Love

[Pass That Shit]

natureisawesome,

Don't let my screen name offend you. I selected that name when registering in here as a joke. I would have liked to change it, but as far as I know, the site does not allow it. Besides, to me, words are not curses. Cursing is when you curse God in your heart, which I do not.

By the way, are you a Cannabis user?
---------------------------------------------------------------

To the site moderators.....

Do you consider s**t a curse? Cause I was told that curses are not allowed in thread titles so I'm wondering why I was allowed to select this screen name? Can my screen name be changed so others don't take offence to it?

[Pass That Shit]

Pass that s**t,

You are right that God is one and that Jesus is God.

But I just want to mention that I feel your user name is very crude, and I don't feel good about not saying aything. I feel It's not something Christ like and If God is in you I think it isn't a very good way to let Christ shine through you to the rest of the world. Not trying to attack you or anything, but just saying I can't possibly consider Christ saying " pass that s**t.

But do you believe that Jesus is God the Father?
Most christians on here say that Jesus is God, but deny that he is the Father. If you deny that Jesus is the Father,
you are in agreement with Junk without knowing it.

[Pass That Shit]

I can go with most of what you say, only the language bothers me. Christ was the manifestation of God's spirit; I get that. The fullness of deity dwelt within Him bodily; I get that. The son of man, son of God, I get that too. Only, the son of God was just that, the "son" of God. Can you separate "Christ" from Jesus; yes! He did it, and so can we. Can you separate God from Christ; yes. He did it, so can we. Jesus never exalted himself, but always sought to glorify the father. I imagine that when people worshiped him, they worshiped the Father within...not the image of the man!

Tell me, are you what you look like? Is your appearance you, or are you something else? Our bodies are images, PTS but they are not who we are. We are much more than our shells. We are defined by our characters, qualities, and spirit.

When I die, I pray God I'm not remembered by what I look like, lol. I pray I will be remembered by my contributions, my character, my inner qualities, and by the spirit I walked in. This is where God is in us, and we in God. All and in all through his spirit.

Jesus is Lord, or [Master] but he is not God himself; Christ was the essence of God, but only by the indwelling of God's spirit. Jesus was a Vessel, but not the father himself, only a full representation of the father "inwardly".

God's spirit is God's Word; Christ carried His Word to the cross. God raised Jesus from the Grave and several days later, he ascended to sit at the right hand of the father.

That's the beauty of salvation. A son of man exalted to such a level is not a thing to overlook. If he were infact God, our faith is in vain (IMO) Jesus conquered his human attributes through God's spirit, and we are to follow in his footsteps. He did not leave us comfortless, he is recieving us to himslef daily.

The Bible is fairly clear about who christ was, and about his relationship with the Father.

God is the source, all things radiate from God. God's spirit is God's essence, and Christ was the manifestation of God's essence. All of which share a common bond . . .


Love

If you lack understand of who he is, I can't make you understand it. Understanding comes from above. All I will leave you with is that Jesus was killed cause he claimed to be God. They said, that Jesus as a man, claimed to be God and they did not believe him. So they killed him for blasphemy. Sorry to say it Junk, I link you with those that put him to the cross. You would be in agreement with them to kill him cause you don't believe that he is God. By their law, he had to die cause he claimed to be God himself. Any other man that would be killed for claiming to be God would be fitting, but not Jesus cause he wasn't a liar. Jesus is LORD.

[JunkYard]

If you lack understand of who he is, I can't make you understand it. Understanding comes from above. All I will leave you with is that Jesus was killed cause he claimed to be God. They said, that Jesus as a man, claimed to be God and they did not believe him. So they killed him for blasphemy. Sorry to say it Junk, I link you with those that put him to the cross. You would be in agreement with them to kill him cause you don't believe that he is God. By their law, he had to die cause he claimed to be God himself. Any other man that would be killed for claiming to be God would be fitting, but not Jesus cause he wasn't a liar. Jesus is LORD.

I know Christ quite well, brother. You and many others however, have adopted a view that is not biblical. He was crucified because the religious leaders of the day viewed him as a threat to their way of life. They did not understand what Christ was saying, and sure, more than likely thought he was claiming to be God himself.

Read in context those I Am statements, the I and the father one statement, and the "if you have seen me, you have seen the father" statement. His speach was was at times, difficult to say the least.

I'll not insist that you see things the way I see them, but if you cannot explain your view to me, and "back it up" with scripture, then you are ducking the issue, which leads me to beleive that you are one who blindly follows "Church" doctrine as oppossed to what Christ himself taught.

As for me nailing Christ to the cross; didn't we all, PTS? That was his charge, for all humanity. None are innocent of His death; not even you.


Junk

[palerider7777]

I would have to say in the beginning there'd be God, not "the word". I know the word is god, but "the beginning" would predate language so the term "word" wouldn't have relevance yet. I'd have to say god would become the word, when there's somebody for it to be spoken to.

how can u say that i would think they were all around at the same time as each one completes the other do they not??

meaning, father, son, and the holyghost.

[jdmarcus59]

Ill put my 2 sence in later, if need be although there has been some good answers
so far, but I have to ask a qustion. what does btw mean? I finally figured out what lol
means. Iam not to hip on compuater short cuts lol. I just learned how to type this last
year. Iam out dated, and old ha ha. I dont even have a cell phone lol.

[Pass That Shit]

btw= by the way

Junk, the reason I didn't give you scripture last night was because there was plenty on the table for you from natureisawesome, that you obviously didn't believe. He shared some good scripture with you that clearly showed that Jesus is God. I know that beating it into you won't work. I'm not looking to convince anyone, I just give my testimony. I take it to another level, Jesus is not only God, but he is the Father. As far as me preaching what the "church" preaches, you are far from being accurate on this one, cause I don't know of any religion that teaches that Jesus is God the Father. Do you?

I'm gonna go out for a boat ride cause we are having a beautiful day today. I'll be back later and share scripture. I can back up EVERYTHING I said with SOUND DOCTRINE. You added so many things that are not given in the bible. This is called private interpretation which we are NOT to do. The truth is told with scripture, not with our opinions.

[palerider7777]

I know Christ quite well, brother. You and many others however, have adopted a view that is not biblical. He was crucified because the religious leaders of the day viewed him as a threat to their way of life. They did not understand what Christ was saying, and sure, more than likely thought he was claiming to be God himself.

Read in context those I Am statements, the I and the father one statement, and the "if you have seen me, you have seen the father" statement. His speach was was at times, difficult to say the least.

I'll not insist that you see things the way I see them, but if you cannot explain your view to me, and "back it up" with scripture, then you are ducking the issue, which leads me to beleive that you are one who blindly follows "Church" doctrine as oppossed to what Christ himself taught.

As for me nailing Christ to the cross; didn't we all, PTS? That was his charge, for all humanity. None are innocent of His death; not even you.


Junk

first off this meaning the church did use"They said, that Jesus as a man, claimed to be God and they did not believe him. So they killed him for blasphemy"this was there excuse so they could have him killed. but if u look the Pharisee/church was all about power and jesus was a big threat to that. and if u read the bible u can clearly see that jesus was not for the Pharisee/church as it clearly shows many times where jesus denounced them.

and went to there meeting telling/showing them there faults.also remember where jesus went to the church and tore the place up and called it a den of thiefs.so i have to agree with junkyard on this as he seem to have a better understanding.and if u really want to trace jesus back as to why he had to come to earth for all our sins read about saul and then david.if u open ur mind u can understand alot more don't just listen to sum preacher trying to make money. as most churches are all about the money it's big business now.i will say this and hope im clear as to how i write it out.

u know preachers/churches try to tell u that the bible is a book made to show u how to live ur life better and for the lord and can show u how to make money if u give to the church and all that. but the truth is, all god really wants is for u to see him as king of kings. and his own people"the jews" but they always turned there backs on him and only called on him in need.so read about saul thats where alot of stuff started as the jews wanted a king as the other tribes that was not even for god but sum man made god, and he told them but im ur god/king and that was not good enough for them. they wanted a ruler they could see.and all god wanted is the complete love and faith of his people and they would never be faithful to him.

thats why when i see everyone coming down hard on the jews and blame everything on them, and yes it might be true but it says in the bible eventhough thats the case u do nothin to them as god will judge them in his own time. as to this day they still don't believe he's been here.and the book of rev is mostly about judging the churches for being so corrupt, so if the jews would have had the faith and love for god that they should have had this would have never happened. and by the way even saul the first king of israel he did'nt even mind god so thats where david came in and i might add that david was one of the closest to god.and he could'nt even get the jews to be good.i could go on but it would be to long.

[natureisawesome]

Junkyard said:



The first scripture you quoted shows the separation between the son of man, and the father's Spirit dwelling in the Son of man; Thomas recognized both, Jesus as Lord, (Master) the inner dwelling of God's fullness the other. "My Lord and my God"

No. that's just ludicrous. You're reading things into the interpretation. Do you really think God would let a mere man be called "the savior of the world" and "my LORD and my GOD" or how about "prince of peace" "mighty God" "wonderful councelour" "HOLY ONE" etc. No.

Men bowed down and worshipped Jesus. They didn't worship God merely in Jesus.


Hebrews 1

1. IN MANY and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets;
2. but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world, or [ages]

Here, the author who is 'unknown' speaks about God's son. [Christ] "Through", which is a very curious word implies a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal, or occasional):


No, it's not curious at all. When God created the heavens and the earth, he spoke them into existence, through the word. This is Jesus Christ. The word is God. God is eternal. He says he changes not " The same yesterday, and today, and forever".



VERY wide applications, imo. Consider also [world] which means "a Messianic period" or age

No, It can mean an age or perpetuity also, but that dosen't maek sense and doesn't fit the context.


Hebrews 11:3

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

In any case that's irrelevent to this topic.


Again, this speaks of Christ who is now sitting at the right hand of the Father. If Christ was God, how can he be sitting at the right hand of the father?

How can God be in heaven and his spirit in us on earth at the same time? The answer, all things are possible for God.


Can you separate "Christ" from Jesus; yes!

No!


If he were infact God, our faith is in vain


The Bible is fairly clear about who christ was, and about his relationship with the Father.

Yes that's true, which is why what you're saying is totally outrageous and blasphemous.


God is the source, all things radiate from God. God's spirit is God's essence, and Christ was the manifestation of God's essence. All of which share a common bond . . .

Where does it ever talk in the bible about Jesus having God's "essence". This is an idea you made up. It's not from scripture


"...CHRIST JESUS...being in the FORM OF GOD, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

--Philippians 2:5-8


It says Jesus is equal with God. Noone is equal with God but God. He will not givehis glory to another, as my previous quotations pointed out.


Isaiah 9:6

6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

He's directly calling the son, clear and plain - GOD. It doesn't say God in the son.


Here Jesus Christ says that in the spirit he will come to comfort his disciples (that is, he is one with God, meaning he is God .)

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;



John 14:16-19

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

I don't want to argue about this anymore. If the Father clearly calling his son GOD doesn't convince you then there's not much more I can do.

[natureisawesome]

Don't let my screen name offend you. I selected that name when registering in here as a joke. I would have liked to change it, but as far as I know, the site does not allow it. Besides, to me, words are not curses. Cursing is when you curse God in your heart, which I do not.

By the way, are you a Cannabis user?

I would ask a moderator to change it for you. I'm sure they could. Even if not, I still think it's a good idea to change it. The way the word is being used like that is derogatory, and you claiming yourself to be Christian should know how powerful words can be. No, it's not cursing , as in the kind of curse you would curse someone but it's just not languange that should be coming from anyone striving for godliness. Jesus wouldn't use that language and you know it.

I don't want to argue about it a lot , but I thought it was worth saying something.

Yes, I use cannabis and it's not unlawful as my signature points out.



But do you believe that Jesus is God the Father?
Most christians on here say that Jesus is God, but deny that he is the Father. If you deny that Jesus is the Father,
you are in agreement with Junk without knowing it.

If Jesus had no distinction from the Father then there would be no Jesus Christ. I am far from agreeing with Junkyard as he doesn't believe that Jesus Christ is God at all and I do. It's not proper terminology to call Jesus the father, but on the other hand he is in the sense that he is one with the father and God is one. Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit are all one = God.

I'm done with this thread. I think I've said all I need to say.

[natureisawesome]

edit: I quoted my previous post be accident.

[jdmarcus59]

yo junkyard what up man, are friend natureisawesome has put together a very good
argument to prove that Jesus is God and that he claimed to be God, I dont know how much
simpler it can be drawn out, it is taught through out the whole bible that He is God..

one more time" IN THE BEGINING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD,
AND THE WORD WAS GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! peace as always.

[JunkYard]

Junkyard said:




No. that's just ludicrous. You're reading things into the interpretation. Do you really think God would let a mere man be called "the savior of the world" and "my LORD and my GOD" or how about "prince of peace" "mighty God" "wonderful councelour" "HOLY ONE" etc. No.

Jesus was not a mere man, and I have attempted to make that clear. He possessed both the fullness of God [within Him bodily], and the fullness of our own nature, knowing the human struggle just as we know it. Jeses the "anointed one" was Holy, a wonderful councelour, the prince of peace and mighty God as it is written in context. The term for God here is 'el pronounced (ale) which means: strength; as adjective, mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity)

Christ was deity "lower case", meaning: (god), X goodly, X great, idol, might(-y one), power, strong.

Isiah also states that he was the "everlasting father". The term here is 'agan pronounced aw-gan, which is in context a primitive root; to debar, i.e. from marriage

Men bowed down and worshipped Jesus. They didn't worship God merely in Jesus.

They bowed down to their Lord (master) and through Him worshiped the Father.


No, it's not curious at all. When God created the heavens and the earth, he spoke them into existence, through the word. This is Jesus Christ. The word is God. God is eternal. He says he changes not " The same yesterday, and today, and forever".

The word is the Spirit of God, nia not Jesus the son of man. Jesus , the son of man died, was also transfigured, but the Spirit that dwelt within Him bodily never changes.


No, It can mean an age or perpetuity also, but that dosen't maek sense and doesn't fit the context.

Look it up, nia the messianic period was the age spoke of in this passage, not nescessarily the creation of the world. Although, the Word as Spirit was in the beginning, established before the beginning of creation. (Proverbs 8:23) The connection is there.



How can God be in heaven and his spirit in us on earth at the same time? The answer, all things are possible for God.

Because His Spirit is essence, and is omnipresent.


Yes that's true, which is why what you're saying is totally outrageous and blasphemous.

Only blasphemous because 'you' view Him as God.



Where does it ever talk in the bible about Jesus having God's "essence". This is an idea you made up. It's not from scripture.

es·sence [éss'nss]
(plural es·sences)
n
1. identifying nature: the quality or nature of something that identifies it or makes it what it is

2. most important feature: the most important element or feature of something

3. perfect form: the perfect or idealized form of something, especially when embodied in a person

All things have an "essence"


It says Jesus is equal with God. Noone is equal with God but God. He will not givehis glory to another, as my previous quotations pointed out.

The term here for "equal" is isos pronounced ee'-sos which simply means (through the idea of seeming); similar (in amount and kind

He's directly calling the son, clear and plain - GOD. It doesn't say God in the son.

I've already explained the terminology and meaning previously in this post.


Here Jesus Christ says that in the spirit he will come to comfort his disciples (that is, he is one with God, meaning he is God .)

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Indeed, He does come, the Spirit, the comforter, the very essence of Christ. HE comes to abide in us forever. The Word, which is God's spirit and essence.


I don't want to argue about this anymore. If the Father clearly calling his son GOD doesn't convince you then there's not much more I can do.

Again, take in context and the conclusion doesn't lean towards your view. Christ possessed the fullness of God bodily, but this does not suggest that he was God himself.

As for arguing, I see no argument, only a disagreement of terms, bro. Beleive what you will, but Christ was not God; He was God's only 'begotten' son. Just like the bible states

Junk

[JunkYard]

yo junkyard what up man, are friend natureisawesome has put together a very good
argument to prove that Jesus is God and that he claimed to be God, I dont know how much
simpler it can be drawn out, it is taught through out the whole bible that He is God..

one more time" IN THE BEGINING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD,
AND THE WORD WAS GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! peace as always.

What up, jd? It was a good post, but to get to the meat, you have to dig in.


Much Love

[jdmarcus59]

What up, jd? It was a good post, but to get to the meat, you have to dig in.


Much Love

yea I know I have to dig in and go through everbody post.
Ive just been to lazy today lol. I was just trying to get away with
stating the obvious.:thumbsup:

[Pass That Shit]

I would ask a moderator to change it for you. I'm sure they could. Even if not, I still think it's a good idea to change it. The way the word is being used like that is derogatory, and you claiming yourself to be Christian should know how powerful words can be. No, it's not cursing , as in the kind of curse you would curse someone but it's just not languange that should be coming from anyone striving for godliness. Jesus wouldn't use that language and you know it.

I don't want to argue about it a lot , but I thought it was worth saying something.

Yes, I use cannabis and it's not unlawful as my signature points out.




If Jesus had no distinction from the Father then there would be no Jesus Christ. I am far from agreeing with Junkyard as he doesn't believe that Jesus Christ is God at all and I do. It's not proper terminology to call Jesus the father, but on the other hand he is in the sense that he is one with the father and God is one. Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit are all one = God.

I'm done with this thread. I think I've said all I need to say.

â??For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.â?�

â??But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.â?�

Don't you believe that Jesus is LORD?

â??Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:â?�

"When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

How do you pray to God if you don't know his name?

"And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me."

Jesus is cleary saying that he is the Father.

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Did we recieve the Spirit of Jesus or the Holy Spirit of our Father?

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

It's clear from your testimony that you deny Jesus being the Son of God!

[natureisawesome]

pass that stuff:


It's clear from your testimony that you deny Jesus being the Son of God!

You've lost it. How many times do I have to say it? I believe that Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God, that he is Spirit and he is Life. I believe he is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit. I believe that Jesus is the Son of God. I believe Jesus is God.

You heard me say it's not proper terminology, but then you seem to ignore the fact that he is the Father in the sense that he's one with the Father and the Holy Spirit. You just need to keep in mind that Jesus has his own mind and his own feelings, which are in subjection to the Father. There is a distinction between the son and the father, or else there wouldn't be those two differnet names!

I hope that clears things up.

[Pass That Shit]

You don't need to justify yourself to me, but it's clear that you only believe that Jesus is the son of man, not the Son of God.

What happened to "it's not proper terminology to call Jesus the Father"? Do you not belive the scriptures?

Here is SOUND DOCTRINE:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Are there 2 everlasting Fathers? I think NOT!
What's not proper about it? Jesus is LORD. LORD is God. God is Father.

[Pass That Shit]

natureisawesome wrote:
I don't want to argue about this anymore. If the Father clearly calling his son GOD doesn't convince you then there's not much more I can do.

JunkYard wrote:
Again, take in context and the conclusion doesn't lean towards your view. Christ possessed the fullness of God bodily, but this does not suggest that he was God himself.

As for arguing, I see no argument, only a disagreement of terms, bro. Beleive what you will, but Christ was not God; He was God's only 'begotten' son. Just like the bible states

I write to Junkyard,
Isn't it ironic how he's telling you that the Father is calling the son God but yet he doesn't believe that Jesus is the Father? I still say that you two are in agreement. You don't believe that Jesus is God and he doesn't believe that Jesus is the Father.
Am I missing something here?

[jdmarcus59]

btw= by the way

Junk, the reason I didn't give you scripture last night was because there was plenty on the table for you from natureisawesome, that you obviously didn't believe. He shared some good scripture with you that clearly showed that Jesus is God. I know that beating it into you won't work. I'm not looking to convince anyone, I just give my testimony. I take it to another level, Jesus is not only God, but he is the Father. As far as me preaching what the "church" preaches, you are far from being accurate on this one, cause I don't know of any religion that teaches that Jesus is God the Father. Do you?

I'm gonna go out for a boat ride cause we are having a beautiful day today. I'll be back later and share scripture. I can back up EVERYTHING I said with SOUND DOCTRINE. You added so many things that are not given in the bible. This is called private interpretation which we are NOT to do. The truth is told with scripture, not with our opinions.
btw.......thank you:)

[Pass That Shit]

;) :thumbsup:

[hazetwostep]

Pass that s**t,

You are right that God is one and that Jesus is God.

But I just want to mention that I feel your user name is very crude, and I don't feel good about not saying aything. I feel It's not something Christ like and If God is in you I think it isn't a very good way to let Christ shine through you to the rest of the world. Not trying to attack you or anything, but just saying I can't possibly consider Christ saying " pass that s**t.

you can't see jesus saying shit... but can you see him participating in a blatently illegal action like smoking a controlled substance??? just curious

[Pass That Shit]

I know right. He can't picture Jesus saying PASS THAT SHIT, but he can picture Jesus passing it? Or is Jesus a Bogart?

I don't think he realizes how hypocritical he sounds. He thinks it's ok just because his signature says so.

Hey natureisawesome, PASS THAT SHIT, stop bogarting it! :jointsmile:

I guess he comforts himself by telling himself that getting high is of faith. But I'm well aware that whatever is not of faith is sin. Sorry to break it to you, but smoking weed is not of faith. But on the other hand, I also know that God does not judge me for it. I don't even judge myself. But I also know that God doesn't judge me for saying PASS THAT SHIT!

[Pass That Shit]

And just for the record, PASS THAT SHIT will retire @ 1k posts. :pimp:

[natureisawesome]

pass that stuff:




You don't need to justify yourself to me, but it's clear that you only believe that Jesus is the son of man, not the Son of God.

What happened to "it's not proper terminology to call Jesus the Father"? Do you not belive the scriptures?

Here is SOUND DOCTRINE:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Are there 2 everlasting Fathers? I think NOT!
What's not proper about it? Jesus is LORD. LORD is God. God is Father.

You are starting to really bug me. Stop slandering me, I already told you that Jesus is God and he's one with the Father.

I don't know why you're attacking me, I beleive that Jesus is God , but you just are not letting it go. Jesus and The Father are both God. But Jesus has his own will, which is in subjection to the Father.


John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.



Mathew 26
39And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

[natureisawesome]

know right. He can't picture Jesus saying PASS THAT SHIT, but he can picture Jesus passing it? Or is Jesus a Bogart?

I don't think he realizes how hypocritical he sounds. He thinks it's ok just because his signature says so.

Hey natureisawesome, PASS THAT SHIT, stop bogarting it!

I guess he comforts himself by telling himself that getting high is of faith. But I'm well aware that whatever is not of faith is sin. Sorry to break it to you, but smoking weed is not of faith. But on the other hand, I also know that God does not judge me for it. I don't even judge myself. But I also know that God doesn't judge me for saying PASS THAT SHIT!

No, actually I think ideally Jesus wouldn't smoke anything. Marijuana can be ingested you know. Actually, God will judge everyman according for his works, and that includes you. And if you abuse his love, it's won't be good for you. If you abide in righteousness then God will be with you, but if not you will be cast away as a branch which will be thrown into the fire.

You've said that marijauna isn't of faith, but you see it wrong because your heart is wrong. You see it wrong because your eyes are darkened. I have faith because I recognise God's righteousness, the same righteousness that you disregard.

[natureisawesome]

hazetwostep:


you can't see jesus saying shit... but can you see him participating in a blatently illegal action like smoking a controlled substance??? just curious

I thought my signature was pretty self explanatory. cannabis is not against the law, because God's law is higher than mans law. Man cannot disanull Gods law. So it is not wrong at all. If other people look at it with darkness in thier hearts, and if others associate it with a counterculture that's them, not me.

As I said above, I don't think Jesus would smoke weed because he could eat it. I'm going to stop smoking weed soon and start vaporising so there's no problem. It's that counterculture and mindset people get and they associate is with weed and they have this connection in thier minds. That's why some people don't marijauna to be legal, because it takes away the sense of rebellion, which an evil way of thinking.
.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

But I'm well aware that whatever is not of faith is sin.


What exactly do you consider "sin"?:wtf: I thought sin, at least to most people, is an act against god. I'm sure god didn't give us weed, tulips, opium, butterflies, orgasms, and sunsets because enjoying them is all sin...

[Pass That Shit]

pass that stuff:



You are starting to really bug me. Stop slandering me, I already told you that Jesus is God and he's one with the Father.

I don't know why you're attacking me, I beleive that Jesus is God , but you just are not letting it go. Jesus and The Father are both God. But Jesus has his own will, which is in subjection to the Father.

How have I attacked you? My observation of you is that you only believe that Jesus is the son of man not the Son of God cause it's obvious that you DON'T know the difference.

"Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

[Pass That Shit]

What exactly do you consider "sin"?:wtf: I thought sin, at least to most people, is an act against god. I'm sure god didn't give us weed, tulips, opium, butterflies, orgasms, and sunsets because enjoying them is all sin...



Actually, NOTHING! I don't even judge myself.

[Pass That Shit]

pass that stuff:



You are starting to really bug me. Stop slandering me, I already told you that Jesus is God and he's one with the Father.

I don't know why you're attacking me, I beleive that Jesus is God , but you just are not letting it go. Jesus and The Father are both God. But Jesus has his own will, which is in subjection to the Father.


I'm not attacking you, I'm EXPOSING you!

You ignored most of the questions I asked because you can't answer them with SOUND DOCTRINE!

[tabuwn]

Sound doctrine = Doctrine that agree's with Pass That Shit's own interpretation of scripture

Expose = I'm showing my ass


lmao

[Pass That Shit]

Not exactly. I don't mind if people don't agree. But he's the one who started by correcting me but hasn't backed up his point with scripture yet. If you're gonna come against me, you should be ready to back up your point. We haven't even got to the point where either one of us is interpreting because he hasn't even provided scripture to back up his original point. It seems that he only wants to carry a conversation with unbelievers.

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

Why is it not proper to call Jesus God the Father? Cause you don't believe that he is? If you can call him The mighy God, so can I call him The everlasting Father. I know that there is only ONE everlasting Father. Jesus is LORD!

[tabuwn]

Mighty God = Mighty Strength (Check out the Hebrew Lexicon)

Everlasting Father = Eternal Ruler/Cheif (See above)

As you see, your oneness doctrine differs from my own, and both views come from the very same scripture.

Who's right?
Who's wrong?
Does it really matter?

Nope!

:hippy:

[Pass That Shit]

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. I'm not responsible for anyones' beliefs except my own. It's not about who's right, it's about finding agreement!

Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God?

It's very clear in scripture that the Son of God has no father! It's recorded in both the old and new testaments. I can provide the scripture if you like. And like I said, the only reason I got into it with him is because he was trying to correct me on my personal beliefs. If you don't agree, give your testimony. He pointed out that what I was preaching was improper, but he never backed it up with scripture. As much as people try to make God "three seperate persons", it's clear througout the bible that God is ONE.

Jesus is the image of the invisible God. Period. If you deny that Jesus is God the Father, you're denying the truth.

[tabuwn]

What shall we agree upon? What is 'truth' to you? If Christ is that truth, what exactly do you know of Him, other than what the oneness doctrine has lead you to believe?

[Pass That Shit]

There's alot to know about him, are you asking something in particular?

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."

[tabuwn]

Have you experienced Him in your life? If so, how? What does it mean to know Christ?

[natureisawesome]

Pass that stuff:


It's very clear in scripture that the Son of God has no father!

I don't need to refute this. Even a pagan with minimal study knows that scripture clearly declares that the son of God has a Father. Here is just one:


Psalm 2

11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

You're reasoning is abolutey rediculous! Who's son is he then, if he has no Father??


It's very clear in scripture that the Son of God has no father!

You're contradicted by your own logic!

I already answered you with scripture several times, including # 53, which you have not addressed. Either you must be totally blind or just plain ignorant.

No, the Truth is you are the heretic. You are the one who does not keep God's righteousness and commandments and therefore you are the one who does not abide in Christ.


John 15

4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. ...

..9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

You are already cast forth, you are ready to be thrown into the fire. You have cast off the Fathers instruction, and you are a bastard (being without discipline) according to the faith.


Hebrews 12
8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.


I guess he comforts himself by telling himself that getting high is of faith. But I'm well aware that whatever is not of faith is sin. Sorry to break it to you, but smoking weed is not of faith. But on the other hand, I also know that God does not judge me for it.

If what you say here is true, you willingly and knowingly sin, and once saved after such an act there is no more hope of repentance for you.




Hebrews 10

18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. ..

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Prepare then to meet God's wrath. If what you say is true, you are accursed, with no hope of repentance. You have done despite the Spirit of Grace, by which you claim to be sanctified.

You have walked astray to the heresy spoken of in the bible, eternal security:




2 John 1

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.



2 Peter 2

1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

7And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

8(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds)

9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

10But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

11Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

12But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

13And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

14Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

15Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

16But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.



Jude 1

4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Woe unto you!! I fear to imagine the wrath that God has stored for you. I fear for myself, to imagine the terror that's befalls such as those that attempt turn the grace of God into a liscense to sin such as you, and I pray the God of heaven and earth will humble me and put great fear into me, knowing that I am a mere man.

[Pass That Shit]

It's very clear in scripture that the Son of God has no father!

I don't need to refute this. Even a pagan with minimal study knows that scripture clearly declares that the son of God has a Father.


Oh really? Let's see you come up with ONE that says the Son of God has a father? Where you go wrong is adding something that's not given. You saying that the Son of God has a father is a private interpretation of scripture on your part cause that is NOT given anywhere.

I know that Jesus is the son of man so there's no need to point that out, but where does it say that the Son of God has a father?
Like I said, you don't know the difference between son of man and Son of God! You keep denying that Jesus is the Son of God!

"For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."

"Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God."

[Pass That Shit]

That's why I said that you were agreeing with JunkYard without knowing it. You were telling him that Jesus is God and he was denying that. If Jesus is God as you say, I ask you the same question? Does God have a father? NO! Therefore Jesus, the Son of God has no father or mother. Jesus is LORD!