growrooms x 2 questions?

[baldyhippy]

Hi Folks.

In a bit of a delema here,Ive just cropped 12 plants wich were from clone and vegged for 3 weeks potted up along the way finishing in 6.5 litre pots.

Theses where in a room sized 6foot x 6foot x7foot high so 36 square feet,under 1 600hps and 1 400 hps & I only managed an oz per plant..roughly!

Now after some maths I realise where I went wrong yield wise..not enough light covering the floor space :thumbsup:

All Ive got are the combined 600hps and 400hps and without splashing out more money,I was thinking of turning my flower rooms around and using my veg/clone mother room to flower in,the size of this room is a nice 6 foot x 3 foot wide,Im hoping to veg clones till october and flower intime for xmas,what you rekon folks then?...should I swap things around and will a combined wattage of 1000 wts be sufficient in my little room...Ive got 4 inline fans ranging from a 10" to 3x 6" for intake extraction,so thats covered....any ideas suggestions most welcome.

Baldy :hippy:

[Weedhound]

I was taught that you usually go by 100watts per square foot (we're talking HID's here.)
A 1kw should cover a 10 x 10 room so it certainly sounds like you have enough wattage to me.

Just guessing.....but it also sounds like you are just cramming too many plants into too small a space so none of them get the space and ventilation they need to thrive.

[psteve]

100W/sq.ft. is great, but the bottom line is 50W/sq.ft.
If you can get above that, you'll be 'in the zone'.
A smaller room should help a lot.

Weedhound, your math is wrong.
10x10 is 100 sq.ft.
1000W would only be 10W/sq.ft.

Baldyhippy...
Your 6x3 room is 18 sq.ft.
so you need at least 900W, so your 1000W would put you in 'the zone'.

[baldyhippy]

Cheers guys for your time in replying.

Steve Im thinking more and more now about the little room Cheers bud....maybe in time Ill fill the other room I rekon I would need 1800wts for that space.

Plan is to extract into my attic (its above my grow area) via a cf & 10" fan,intake will be via an open window and probally a 6" fan for this..sound good?

Once again cheers folks.

Bh.

[HighTillIDie]

sounds like heat problems, maybe you have really bad light spread... and bad nutes... either that or you fucked up and harvested your plants at the completely wrong time

also if i'm not utterly retarded, your grow pots seem a little small

[psteve]

Cheers guys for your time in replying.

Steve Im thinking more and more now about the little room Cheers bud....maybe in time Ill fill the other room I rekon I would need 1800wts for that space.

Plan is to extract into my attic (its above my grow area) via a cf & 10" fan,intake will be via an open window and probally a 6" fan for this..sound good?

Once again cheers folks.

Bh.
I'd recommend three 600W HPS, for best efficiency and coverage, or two 600W HPS and two 400W MH for broader spectrum, and even more lumens. ;)
Venting upwards is usually best for heat extraction. :thumbsup:
Fan size depends on CFM (fan efficiency) and room size.

[baldyhippy]

Again thx Steve the 3 x 600 would be great in the room ive been using,but like I say I dont want to go spending more cash on upgrading my lights (not yet anyways) ;) Doing a little search Ive decided on the 6x3 this time around and hopefully better my yield,my fan efficiency will/should be ample for a good air exchange,so with 18 square feet to play with if ive read the maths correct that Ill be a nice 59wats per s/foot...with room for upgrades :)

Many thanks.

Bh.

[Weedhound]

I'm sorry....I may have said this wrong but I stand by my info.....1kw should cover a 10x10 room fine. This is information I got from someone who's knowledge I trust completey so whether or not I do math right.....1kw should be plenty for his room. Mines 8 x4x 8with 1k watt and no problems or yield issues unless I just get too greedy to give everyone enough space. I still think he's got too many plants. I fit four-6 decent sized in mine. He's got 12.

I did always suck at math. :D

[baldyhippy]

Weedhound Im listening mate just getting confused...heres how I now see things!

Ok the room Ive just used to flower 12 plants in was 6x6x7=36 square foot of floor space.
In here,they where under a 600hps and a 400hps=1000wts.

That should av worked out around 30 watts a square foot so in a 10x10 room it would be lower as steve said 10watts per square foot.

So my new room of 18 square foot is half my last rooms size but with the same 1000wts should get me around the 59watt per square foot...surley being better?

My 12 plants weren,t massive things,flowered at 18" and ended up about 2 and a half foot,there was just so much spare room around them I knew it was the lights,so either I had to upgrade my lights or downsize...so downsize it is,and im probbally going to try and fit a 25 plant sog in this area...Ill let you know how it goes.

Thanks.

Bh.

[jamstigator]

Not much light at the edges of a 10'x10' room with just one 1k light. I use a 1k light in a 4'x4' hydrohut, and that seems about right, maybe a tad overkill. That comes out to about 60-ish watts of light power per square foot, so just a little more than the optimal 50. I could cover more area, but I'd have to raise the light significantly to do it, which would increase the distance between the light and the plants. And light intensity doesn't diminish linearly with distance, it's much worse than that. Let's say you're generating X lumens/sqft at 1 foot distance. At 2 feet, it's half that. At 3 feet it's 1/4 of that, at 4 feet it's 1/8 of that, and at 5 feet (the center of a 10'x10' room to the edges) it's 1/16 of the light intensity that exists at 1 foot from the light.

The general rule of thumb is: 400 watt HPS light = 3'x3' square. 600 watt light = 4'x4' square, and 1k light = 5'x5' square. Thus, a 10'x10' room would, realistically, need four 1k lights, if you used the entire space for flowering, and wanted reasonable yield from all of the plants. If you don't care about yield, then sure, you could use one 23-watt CFL in a 50'x50' room. Just wouldn't get much from each plant. ;)

[Weedhound]

Baldy.....I use 8 x 4x 8. I grow hydro. I've been getting about 4-5 oz with 4-6 plants in the space. That's 4-5 oz per plant...not total. I use a 1kw light. Everyone can add the numbers up any way they want and hash over watts per...in my HUMBLE opinion you have enough light and that's not your problem. if you have enough air space per plant then check your soil space....how big are you pots? And if that isn't the problem I'd start looking at your nutes and ph etc....just as HTID said above.

I've crabbed out my piece so will now leave you guys to decide.....Good Luck:)

[psteve]

Not much light at the edges of a 10'x10' room with just one 1k light. I use a 1k light in a 4'x4' hydrohut, and that seems about right, maybe a tad overkill. That comes out to about 60-ish watts of light power per square foot, so just a little more than the optimal 50. I could cover more area, but I'd have to raise the light significantly to do it, which would increase the distance between the light and the plants. And light intensity doesn't diminish linearly with distance, it's much worse than that. Let's say you're generating X lumens/sqft at 1 foot distance. At 2 feet, it's half that. At 3 feet it's 1/4 of that, at 4 feet it's 1/8 of that, and at 5 feet (the center of a 10'x10' room to the edges) it's 1/16 of the light intensity that exists at 1 foot from the light.

The general rule of thumb is: 400 watt HPS light = 3'x3' square. 600 watt light = 4'x4' square, and 1k light = 5'x5' square. Thus, a 10'x10' room would, realistically, need four 1k lights, if you used the entire space for flowering, and wanted reasonable yield from all of the plants. If you don't care about yield, then sure, you could use one 23-watt CFL in a 50'x50' room. Just wouldn't get much from each plant. ;)
This is pretty much right on. The 400=3x3 and 1k=5x5 room is pretty much the max that those lights can handle efficiently.

[Weedhound]

Look guys perhaps I'm not saying it correctly so let me put it differently. What I am getting from your answers to his thread is this: Without a bunch more light he cannot hope to get a better yield than one ounce per plant in a six by six space by simply using 1kw. Sorry, but I find that to be ridiculous. A good friend of mine grew in a closet larger than that with a 400w hps and yielded two ozs per plant on his first complete grow.

Baldy if you look through some of the grow logs you will find many many people here who easily yield more than an oz per plant without using three times the wattage, including me. I think you have enough light......it certainly would be plenty for me.

Peace.

[Markass]

I'm with weedhound on this....I used a 250 w/ cool tube with 3 ladies...they all gave me around 2 ounces each, 6 ounces total..something wasn't right if you had a 600 and 400 and only got 1 ounce per plant...

[psteve]

Look guys perhaps I'm not saying it correctly so let me put it differently. What I am getting from your answers to his thread is this: Without a bunch more light he cannot hope to get a better yield than one ounce per plant in a six by six space by simply using 1kw. Sorry, but I find that to be ridiculous. A good friend of mine grew in a closet larger than that with a 400w hps and yielded two ozs per plant on his first complete grow.

Baldy if you look through some of the grow logs you will find many many people here who easily yield more than an oz per plant without using three times the wattage, including me. I think you have enough light......it certainly would be plenty for me.

Peace.
The point isn't that he needs more light for his six plants, it's that he's wasting light buy using the whole room. He can get a better yield from his same six plants under his same 1000 Watts by reducing his room size.
And yes, he can probably also increase his yield by increasing his pot size to 5-7 gallon.

[Weedhound]

And I'm sorry Steve but I still disagree. I don't think he's wasting light at all. My understanding of the question was this....could he increase his yield using the specs he had (vs smaller space)? I say yes. And I still think you will find that there are plenty of others who "waste light" and still easily yield better than an oz per plant.

[baldyhippy]

Morning guys.

Looks like you chaps continued this discussion while I was tucked up in my bed...respect to you all for discussing in my absense,let me try and explain this morning without my stoner head on.

Ok so I tried 12 plants under a 600+400 in a room 6x6x7 and only managed roughly a oz per plant,Ive done some more research into (why) thats all I got and what I could have done better.....a big wrong on my part was yes I potted up along the way ending up with 6.5 ltr square pots to flower in,however instead of letting the rootball form properly I think I was premature in switching to 12/12...Flower was started as soon as i seen roots at the bottom and height wize they were around 18" so there i guess was my first mistake,a bigger rootball/mass would av given me bigger yield...yes? Yield is important to me,Im growing for 2 (the wife) and myself,im just looking on how to improve things with what ive got,I still class my self as a newbie to all aspects of growing.

Weedhound Fair play to you mate If your pulling 4-5oz dry from a single plant can you tell me if theses are rooted cuts and how long do you veg them before switching to flower? Ive tinkered with hydro myself on and off (nft 901) and my best after 19 days veg period was 3oz per plant (strain was mazar) So why change things I hear you saying.....well its only another experiement really to try and become self effcient pluss i like the fact that i can now move single plants about easier much better if im running into probs with mites ect: tbh i think if i let the roots fill their final pots properly and possibly use bigger pots and wait for it....the smaller room,surley i can double my last attempt at least...time will tell my friend,meentime thanks again folks,please keep your opinions coming.

Bh.

[psteve]

And I'm sorry Steve but I still disagree. I don't think he's wasting light at all. My understanding of the question was this....could he increase his yield using the specs he had (vs smaller space)? I say yes. And I still think you will find that there are plenty of others who "waste light" and still easily yield better than an oz per plant.
Yes. It is definitely possible to consistently grow more than an ounce per plant under less than ideal conditions.
I've seen patients with good luck pull more than an ounce from plants grown under CFL's in a corner of their living room.
But if you want to maximize your plants potential for density, potency and yield, >50W/sq.ft. is pretty much the accepted standard.
My advice is...
Pot size up, room size down.

[Weedhound]

Steve....I hear you and I think we are talking about different things here. I believe you are stating the maximum ideal conditions in which to grow correct? I have no doubt that you are right in what you say..... the absolute BEST conditions for lighting etc.

Perhaps I misunderstood the question....my understanding of it was that Baldy felt his only problem to a better yield was that he felt he did not have enough light. This is what I am disagreeing with. I think there are all sorts of things he could try that would improve the yield using the specs he had.

PS....my math DOES suck. :thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

bh, I grow from seed because I like variety myself. My veg (and germ) time is usually between 4-5 weeks....I do flower them at about 10-12 inches. Do you have any photos of your grow?

[baldyhippy]

Heres a mixture of pics ive dug out wh mate,the room ive just used and i think i have one of my veg area the room i now plan to use.

Keep your thoughts coming its much appreciated.

Bh.

Ill try find a veg room pic...bare with me.....

[baldyhippy]

Heres a couple not to good ones of the room i plan to use....

Bh.

[baldyhippy]

Few more.......Bh.