Need some help

[Sativagrowin]

I have a friend who is in desparate need of some advice. He has 4 great looking plants that have all of a sudden started to develope yellow leaves with spots all over them. The spots are white in the center and have a burnt brown ring around them. I am having him email me some pics and hope to be able to attach them here. They are all grown outdoors. We have had a LOT of rain this summer so at first I thought they might be too wet. He has let them dry up until the point that you see leaf wilting. Then he watered with rain water and fertilizer. He is using the "Earth Juice" products as directed. Grow, Bloom, and catalyst.

I have been suspecting either a potassium or perhaps Magnesium. he has tried all remedies for those deficiencies without success. He removed all yellow leaves yesterday and today he called and said there were 20 more. This problem is getting bad fast.

The plants are about half way through flowering at the moment and without and large fan leaves left I don't see much chance of them finishing. The plants are keeping all the bud sites green and healthy looking but the rest of the plants are fading fast.

Can someone please offer something else to try.

I just got the pics. The first two show the progression of the problem over the course of 4 leaves.

I am going to visit him today and would love to bring him some new things to try. He is getting desperate and was even considering harvesting them early.

PLEASE HELP!!!!

[Chronisseur]

Im not a pro, but tryin to learn myself so bear w me!:D

Halfway through flower? Hmmm...the N should be on its way out, which would leave da fans to yellow and some fall off. Whats your PH?


STIIIIIIIIIIINKYYYYYYYY! Where areeeeeee youuuuu?:D

[Sativagrowin]

to 6.7 after mixing the fertz.

He has added some organic potash to the watering to try to treat for potassium deficiency and sprayed with a 2% epson salt solution to try to treat for Magnesium deficiency.

[Weedhound]

Chron here's what I usually end up doing with the soil people because i'm so clueless with soil. ;)

International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - The Complete guide to Sick Plants,pH, and Pest troubles! (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688)

Give to your friend. It's excellent and I hope it helps his plants. :)

[Weedhound]

Oh and what size pots are they in? Could they be rootbound?

[Chronisseur]

Good call ya ole hound dog! That may help me as a reference in the future as well!
Those look like 10"-12" pots, but they look like they may be short, which looks like you may be right:cool:

PS: I never knew I was into "beastiality" until I saw your Rhinos:D

[Weedhound]

Woof :D

[Ganja Guerrilla]

PH spotting generally from wild PH swings, nitrogen is already locked out, you need to get this under control ASAP, this will stop bud resin production

To rule out PH related issues complete a soil runoff PH test.......
with PH corrected water (6.5-6.8PH ) pour enough water in the pots so the water runs out the bottom of the pot ...test the PH of this water....

If the PH reading is out of optimum range 6.5-6.8 PH, you need to flush your plant.
Flush with PH corrected water, till in optimum PH range, 3 times the volume of the pots rule of thumb but may require much more flushing if the rootball is thick & sour

EG: 1 gal pot = 3 gal. flush

add 1/2 strength nutes to the last gallon of the flush.


your buddy needs to start ph correcting EVERYTHING that goes in the pots

[Weedhound]

Good info GG....Thanks. :)

[stinkyattic]

What sort of soil are you running?
Do I see long fiber coco in there?
Is there any peat?

[ohkelly]

I don't know anything about ph and weed, or fungus and weed, but most round, irregularly spaced holes that I've seen in other leaves are from fungus. Fungus grows in a circle.

Those plants are definitely N-starved, but those holes just don't look to me like they are deficiency-related. That tends to be pretty symmetrical when it happens, like around the leaf margins (edges), between the leaf veins, at the leaf tips or over the entire leaf. Those look like the leaves were hit by birdshot, holes scattered everywhere. There are fungi called "shothole fungi," and that's what that looks like to me. I just don't know if it affects weed. If I'm right, you should see little watery lesions on the mostly healthy leaves, then gray dead spots on the somewhat sicker ones, and holes in the sickest.

And you might be chasing your tail. What were the initial symptoms that led you to apply the potash? Or the magnesium? Do you see those symptoms in the pics, or are they gone, as though you fixed those symptoms? If you still see those symptoms, point them out, because I don't see signs of either. Did you know that excess potash can cause nitrogen deficiency? (And magnesium deficiency, too, but I don't see that.)

Read this page before you do much more:

Deficiency and Toxicity Symptoms (http://hort.ufl.edu/teach/orh3254/DefSymptoms.htm)

Keep in mind that the info there is mostly related to field crops, but it's generally relevant to most vegetative plants.

[ohkelly]

Sorry, the board monkeys won't let me edit my post any more, so here is a revised version:

I don't know anything about ph and weed, or fungus and weed, but most round, irregularly spaced holes that I've seen in other leaves are from fungus. Fungus grows in a circle.

Those plants are definitely N-starved. N deficiency causes the oldest, lowest leaves to yellow and die, while the new growth stays green. The plant actually moves the N from the old to the new.

You might be chasing your tail with the nutrition. What were the initial symptoms that led you to apply the potash? Or the magnesium? Do you see those symptoms in the pics, or are they gone, as though you fixed those symptoms? If you still see those symptoms, point them out, because I don't see signs of either. Did you know that excess potash can cause nitrogen deficiency? (And magnesium deficiency, too, but I don't see that.)

Read this page before you do much more:

Deficiency and Toxicity Symptoms (http://hort.ufl.edu/teach/orh3254/DefSymptoms.htm)

Keep in mind that the info there is mostly related to field crops, but it's generally relevant to most vegetative plants.

Those holes, though, just don't look to me like they are deficiency-related. That tends to be pretty symmetrical when it happens, like around the leaf margins (edges), between the leaf veins, at the leaf tips or over the entire leaf.

Those look like the leaves were hit by birdshot, holes scattered everywhere. There are fungi called "shothole fungi," and that's what that looks like to me. I just don't know if it affects weed. If I'm right, you should see little yellowish, *maybe* watery lesions on the mostly healthy leaves, then gray dead spots on the somewhat sicker ones, and holes in the sickest. If that's it, I don't know what it will do to your plants, or what the proper remedy is for something you plan to burn and inhale. Google tobacco and shothole and fungicide and see what you find.

Also see:
AZ Master Gardener Manual: Determine Causes (http://cals.arizona.edu/pubs/garden/mg/damage/determine.html)

If they were mine, I'd probably flush hard and fertilize with a balanced fertilizer with minor elements and see what happens. If they perk up and start growing, you can probably forget about the holes if you can't find a smokeable fungicide. I'm too lazy to look for one right now.

[stinkyattic]

If they were mine, I'd probably flush hard and fertilize with a balanced fertilizer with minor elements and see what happens. If they perk up and start growing, you can probably forget about the holes if you can't find a smokeable fungicide. I'm too lazy to look for one right now.

This is what I'd say as well.
The reason I asked about soil and coco etc is that Calcium and Potassium deficiencies can weaken a plant' tissue and its immune system, respectively, allowing for fungus to take hold.
Coco is notorious for interfering with Ca and pH issues make K uptake a no-go.

[Sativagrowin]

Thanks to all who have replied.

The plants are in 24 quart planters. He went out and purchased some 32 quart planters and one 48 quart for the biggest one. I didn't know they came that big. lol. That's one big pot!!!!

The coco fibers that you see are only on the surface. He said he had some extra coco laying around and he wanted to get rid of it so he just covered the top of the soil with it. It is not mixed in with the soil.

When he transplanted them there were a lot of roots compacted at the bottom of the soil ball. They now have approx 6" of fresh soil on the bottom and about 2" around the sides. No new leaves have yellowed. He watered thoroughly with PH adjusted water and on the last flush used full strength Earth Juice.

Some of you have had some good points about the fungus. The only thing is that the leaves start out green and healthy and then the spots come and then the leaves start to yellow and eventually die. That would mean that the fungus is attacking the exact same leaves that the nutrient deficiencies are hitting first. Wouldn't the fungus hit all over the plant? The bud sites look great no spots and no yellowing.

He only needs about 3 or 4 more weeks of flowering so I hope that the transplant helps him till then. He wanted me to thank everyone here for their help. He's kind've paranoid about the net so that's why I'm posting for him. You guys/gals have been great.

Let me know if there is anything else you think of after reading this.

Thanks again,
Sativa

P.S. The Haze we've been getting around here has been mindblowing!!!!!! That is a strain I could definately see myself taking the risk to grow. lol