Hydroponic Guidance Needed! Which is better?

[GDS StonerBoy]

Okay i've now decided for my grow i no longer want to use ebb/flow trays! I want to go with something like these 2 and i would like to know from others which one would they prefer. Also what type of lighting would be adequate for these systems.

Multi Flow Hydroponic System - Greentrees Hydroponics (http://www.hydroponics.net/items/details/multiflow.asp)

Water Farm 8-Module hydroponic drip system - Plantlighting Hydroponics (http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/water-farm-8module-hydroponic-drip-system-p-56.html)

[Megatron]

Go with the first one. Its a better system IMO. Im not that big of a fan of the square buckets,or the drip system on the waterfarms.

[rhizome]

Hmm...

I like the multiflows ( also known as the ebb-n-grow), but the waterfarms are more forgiving. If you go w/ the multiflow, pay very close attention to the upper float switch- trust me.

If you're shipping, the waterfarms will be a lot cheaper.

Each of these systems has some flexibility in configuration, but I'd be surprised if you could fit either in less than a 6x6- so you're looking at either a 600 or a K.

Either system- remember to rinse the media during res changes, as salts will accumulate.

[Opie Yutts]

My understanding is that both of those work really well. Anytime you can water the entire root system, but also let it have as much air as possible too, you're plants should do very well.

The 15 minute timers are ok, but you really want a cyclestat. They are more money, but you have infinite control overy the duration of watering as well as the frequency. (about $140). You want abou 7 minute frequency and 1 minute duration (depending), and you can't come close to doing anything like that with the cheaper timers included in those set-ups.

My advice: Get a good timer and build your own system. Those are very simple to build and plans are all over the place. You won't need a float if you get a good timer. It would probably cost abouty half, including the good timer.

[Opie Yutts]

Lighting? The more light, the more weed. (duh). If I could afford it, I would get one of those light poles that has a rotating head with 4 different HID lights. Otherwise I would think you would need about 1000 watts, or 600 for veg and 1000 for bloom. A little more would be better, like 2 1000 watters.

[GDS StonerBoy]

Hmm...

I like the multiflows ( also known as the ebb-n-grow), but the waterfarms are more forgiving. If you go w/ the multiflow, pay very close attention to the upper float switch- trust me.

What happened with the switch? Just would like to know because im pretty sure if its a bad problem im gonna base my decision on just that! Dont really want anything simple going wrong during this grow, i have already had a few probs.



If you're shipping, the waterfarms will be a lot cheaper.

How do they come shipped anyway? Are they in one huge box?



Each of these systems has some flexibility in configuration, but I'd be surprised if you could fit either in less than a 6x6- so you're looking at either a 600 or a K.

Dont worry room is not a problem i just want to make sure i have sufficient light for 8 or 12 healthy dwc plants?!:thumbsup:



Either system- remember to rinse the media during res changes, as salts will accumulate.

Yes sir, you got it!

[GDS StonerBoy]

The 15 minute timers are ok, but you really want a cyclestat. They are more money, but you have infinite control overy the duration of watering as well as the frequency. (about $140). You want abou 7 minute frequency and 1 minute duration (depending), and you can't come close to doing anything like that with the cheaper timers included in those set-ups.

My advice: Get a good timer and build your own system. Those are very simple to build and plans are all over the place. You won't need a float if you get a good timer. It would probably cost abouty half, including the good timer.


Honestly i really dont have the time nor skill to build this just off of a plan therefore i'll just purchase this one and if i ever need another i'll have something to look at with the plans making it much easier!

But can you post a link to this timer?! Is that timer really that much of a factor can the one that comes with it now, not do a good enough job? Just asking because i'd like to spend extra money on more light if needed!

[Opie Yutts]

Green Air Cyclestat 4P Control Hydroponics New! - (item 140144470994 end time Aug-09-07 23:07:15 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/Green-Air-Cyclestat-4P-Control-Hydroponics-New_W0QQitemZ140144470994QQihZ004QQcategoryZ43555Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Not entirely needed, but real nice to have. 15 minutes on is too much on time in my opinion. Kinda like drowning the roots instead of letting them have the air they need.

[Opie Yutts]

Oh yeah, most cyclestats also come with an electric eye that shuts everything off when the lights go out, if you set it to do so.

[rhizome]

What happened with the switch? Just would like to know because im pretty sure if its a bad problem im gonna base my decision on just that! Dont really want anything simple going wrong during this grow, i have already had a few probs.

The top float is controls a NC relay which will keep the system from pumping out all over your floor ( catastrophic failure, as you'll lose your res contents and potentially your plants, as well as attracting a lot of attention from your downstairs neighbors) by killing power to the feed pump if an over-high water level occurs. Failure is caused by calcification, built up nutrient salts, organic material, or debris blocking the upward movement of the float. Just flick it w/ your finger once in a while to make sure that it moves ok.

The low float kills power to the return pump if an overly low level occurs. Less important, IMHO, as a failure could only result in the roots sitting in nutrient until you discover the problem- low O2 in the root zone, but nobody's calling the cops)





How do they come shipped anyway? Are they in one huge box?

Waterfarm 8-packs come in one box. Multi's are usually a truck ship, what w/ that big ol' plastic barrell. You probabley want to pick this up somewhere, as opposed to having it delivered to your working address. Another option is to buy the controller and a couple of the extension packs, and score the plastic barrell on your own. I know I can pick up the same barrell for $10 at our local pickle factory- free sometimes. They smell like pickles for a long, long time though. Will ship cheaper, and more discreetly.

Either system yer gonna need a bunch of hydroton as well, which is another pricey ship. Try to pick it up from a retail shop if ya can, or get a binding shipping quote before you choose your vendor





Dont worry room is not a problem i just want to make sure i have sufficient light for 8 or 12 healthy dwc plants?!:thumbsup:


Umm- neither of these is a dwc system. Multi's an ebb-n-flo, WF are recirculating drip.

Either will fit under a K, configured properly.

[rhizome]

The 15 minute timers are ok, but you really want a cyclestat. They are more money, but you have infinite control overy the duration of watering as well as the frequency. (about $140). You want abou 7 minute frequency and 1 minute duration (depending), and you can't come close to doing anything like that with the cheaper timers included in those set-ups.

Those parameters would be very difficult to acheive in an ebb-n-flo of any size. Certainly mine take much longer to flood, and much longer to drain. I think that the flow rate required to fully flood several hunded liters of hydroton in sixty seconds would be injurious to the plants. That's a timing schedule that I normally associate w/ aero.

I greatly prefer electromechanical for this application- the cyclestat is overkill, and less reliable. For timer based CO2- they're great.

You won't need a float if you get a good timer.

The floats are a failsafe. You don't need them until the timer screws up- ie system is pumping in, is at high level, power blinks, resets cyclestat, cyclestat begins pump in cycle, system pumps out all over the floor.

Saying you don't need the floats w/ a cyclestat is like saying that you don't need a seatbelt if you have high-end brake pads. Ya don't- until something goes wrong.

Oh- you'd need two cyclestats synced@180 degrees, or some fancy delayed action relays. Two pumps- one fill, one drain.

[GDS StonerBoy]

Wow rhizome your the man! I'm really glad i decided to ask about this before i bought it! It seems as if you've had experiences with both of these systems, if so which one gave you the better yield?! Anyway thanks alot i think i'll be going with the waterfarms because its easy shipping and i like that fact that you said they were more forgiving.

Thank for your help everyone

[swisha]

i would plop the buckets on a shelf and let gravity to the work and just drain back into the res. then drip feed the buckets.

[rhizome]

i would plop the buckets on a shelf and let gravity to the work and just drain back into the res. then drip feed the buckets.

The advantage that these systems share is minimal height- in order to gravity return, the bottom of the grow container must be lower than the top of the res- bucket+res is gonna be an easy 24" vertical, which is more valuable to some than others.

I gravity return whenever possible, as it's idiot-proof- and I have been that idiot. But if it's not practical, these are a fine way to go.