Christians on board?

[JD1stTimer]

Hey all,

I've been surprised to see several posts on here coming from a Christian perspective. A Bible-believing Christian myself, I'm curious how many of you are like me, not just Christians because we were baptized or have the surname Smith or whatever, but cannabis users who actually practice and live the Christian faith. I include all forms, Gnostic, Coptic, Orthodox, Catholic, Rastafari, you name it. And please no bashing of anyone else's choice. If you are non-Christian feel free to say so too, but please keep your comments about your own life only. I'd also like to hear how you reconcile cannabis use and your faith, if yours is one in which the use of cannabis is generally considered a sin. Thanks, and I look forward to all the great posts out there!!

[Hardcore Newbie]

I live by common law standards, the original law. Don't hurt anyone else, don't break or take their belongings, and don't engage in fraud in your contracts. Don't impede on anyone else's rights unless they, directly conflict with the law. If everyone could abide by these rules, the world would be much safer, and everyone would be free.

I reconcile my cannabis use by the fact that I'm not hurting anyone. If someone doesn't like it, they have the right not to like it, but they shouldn't have the right to impose their dislikes upon me, as my cannabis use doesn't affect them at all.

[Pass That Shit]

Christian here!!! :jointsmile:

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life"

[palerider7777]

I live by common law standards, the original law. Don't hurt anyone else, don't break or take their belongings, and don't engage in fraud in your contracts. Don't impede on anyone else's rights unless they, directly conflict with the law. If everyone could abide by these rules, the world would be much safer, and everyone would be free.

I reconcile my cannabis use by the fact that I'm not hurting anyone. If someone doesn't like it, they have the right not to like it, but they shouldn't have the right to impose their dislikes upon me, as my cannabis use doesn't affect them at all.

wtf lol,did u read what u just wrote? but does 'nt ur weed use conflict with the law? and common law standards wtf is that where did it come from? just some old guy from way back...

[palerider7777]

my avatar should say it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hardcore Newbie]

wtf lol,did u read what u just wrote? but does 'nt ur weed use conflict with the law? and common law standards wtf is that where did it come from? just some old guy from way back...
Common Law is not "Law", it's the exact laws that i've mentioned up there.

Do not harm any person.
Do not damage or take another's property.
Do not engage in fraud in your contracts.

That's all their is to common law. It's the original law from many countries, The States included.

[Coelho]

Well... i dont know if i can say im Christhian... i was born and raised Christian, but then i left my parents house, and didnt went to the church anymore. In the meanwhile, i started to learn about oriental religions, mainly buddhism, and also the way of the knowledge (don Juan teachings), so now im a complex mix of many religions.
But i try to merge them as nicely as possible, so for anybody that looks at me from the outside, would say im very Christian... what is partially true. Im Christian, but not only Christian.
And i dont think the act of smoking weed is a sin. The sin is what you do while stoned. If you smoke and do wrong things, the wrong things you did are the sin, not the fact of smoking itself.
But for me weed always was a great help for the spirituality. After i started to smoke, i became a FAR more spiritual person. So, for me, weed is a God's gift, to allow we poor humans to get closer to Him and His knowledge and wisdom.

[xbeadsx]

Well, I'm a red letter Christian, I only focus on what Jesus had to say. I don't go to church but do go to Worship sometimes to network and make new friends, I don't think weed really interferes with my spirituality or helps, the only things I keep in mind is that the only thing Jesus wants you to do for him is help the needy and not brag about it, by helping someone in need and then blurting it out. You will not be rewarded... but, if you do a good deed and keep it to yourself and the person you helped, father will reward you in the afterlife. For more info read through Matthew 5-7 :)

Happy Tokin' =]
Beads :jointsmile:

[txbuddz]

im totally christian... i had a stint of athiesm and some religious exploration but that was a weird time in my life. after seeing my way out i found god and accepted jesus into my life. i sound like a fundamentalist dont i? im not... dont worry

[JD1stTimer]

Good replies everyone! txbuddz, being born and raised in TX myself I think that's a pretty cool avatar, although, it does look a bit like sacrilege to me. ;) I'll accept it on this messageboard but if I see it in front of your house I'll have some harsh words for you, lol. xbeadsx, don't the Xs mean you are straightedge? I'm curious if you make an exception for pot or if I'm misreading that. Peace.

[Baker420]

catholic..kind of...im changing to a non denominational church like my parents.

[SomeGuy]

I'm a Christian though I cant say my religious beliefs all fit under Christianity... Ive drawn important principles from other religions (and some modern physics) too....but am a Christian at the core.

[Bogart]

I am a practicing christian. I like to smoke before church as it does help me with focusing on the word and also feeling the spirit when it prompts me.

[JD1stTimer]

Bogart, I like to smoke to pray and stuff too. I've always been too nervous to go into church stoned.. (Pretty conservative church)

[sorgens_kammer]

I would say I am a Christian. I would say I am most like the early church, meeting in houses, very free-form you might say. I read the bible and thats what I believe, and I won't let what someones opinion behind a microphone affect my faith, but rather review it in my own time to see if I share the view with what I have found in my bible. Marijuana has brought me a lot of happiness in hard times and has encouraged a more active pray life in my situation... not to mention it relieves a lot of pain from my body that for the most part chemical medicine compounds don't seem to help.

It is different living in a world where doctrines have overridden the word, but thats what I try and stick to... the word! As xbeadsx said, its what you do while your high that determines whether you should be doing it or not (imo) read Romans 13:14 for a good example of certain things being harmful to some and uplifting to others.

[slipknotpsycho]

I live by common law standards, the original law. Don't hurt anyone else, don't break or take their belongings, and don't engage in fraud in your contracts. Don't impede on anyone else's rights unless they, directly conflict with the law. If everyone could abide by these rules, the world would be much safer, and everyone would be free.

I reconcile my cannabis use by the fact that I'm not hurting anyone. If someone doesn't like it, they have the right not to like it, but they shouldn't have the right to impose their dislikes upon me, as my cannabis use doesn't affect them at all.

my way of life would be like this.. .only i believe in karma, no supreme being, just a a force beyond explination of equalness...

[jdmarcus59]

I am a practicing christian. I like to smoke before church as it does help me with focusing on the word and also feeling the spirit when it prompts me.

you only think it does cause your stoined, lets be honest.:)

[amnesiac]

I am absolutely a Christian. It is my opinion that using the truths we experience when stoned (universal love, importance in art and music etc), we can further explore our faith. Plus, I read Daniel when high and it completely changed my perspective on how the Bible was written. As sorgens said, it's about what's uplifting to others. If I am being a stumbling block for someone by smoking around them or being high near them, then that is wrong. Also, though, I think it is absurd to assume that weed is a bad thing. As Ben Harper (a Christian) said: "before you knock it, try it first." Also also, in the first freaking CHAPTER of the bible, it basically promotes the use of any green plants on this earth: "3 Every moving thing can be food for you, as I gave you the green plants, I give them to you."

[natureisawesome]

Hello,

I am a Christian. I havn't been a Christian for many years, and I'm not really that old, I'm 22.


There is a lot I can say, and when someone asks me about my beliefs I am sometimes tempted to start typing a many paged discourse on my beliefs, but everything in it's proper place and time.

I am a Christian, and while I don't go to church I would love to have a family of believers to go to find fellowship and worship together. I havn't found anyone who I have found is compatible enough with what i believe to call a friend. How can two walk together, except they agree.

I'm not sure how everyone views fundamentalism or how they personally see it or define it, but I suppose I would be extremely fundamental except for my smoking marijauna.

I used to be a total pothead rocker and one of the biggest "potheads" in my neighborhood, but now I have a much different view. I see it now as a medicinal herb to be used in moderadtion, not something that by nature has anything to do with a spirit of rebellion or counterculture.

I like being sober much more, but I find that the suffering I go through emotionally, spiritually and physically can be so harsh sometimes that marijauna does a great deal to help me overcome these daily challanges and I see that as a gift of God and give him thanks. I wish I had a vaporizer really, because i see the act of smoking anything into my lungs as harmful. I know in moderation though, the harmful effects are practically nothing, and I hope to find a better way of ingestion soon. I also see the act of smoking as a form of ritual as something that I believe to be spiritually inatractive to say the least . Notwithstanding, incense is a different matter.

As was noted above the 1st Chapter of Genesis does iclude marijauna in God's delcaration that plants were originally given to us for food.

29Then God said, "Behold, (AK)I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;

30and (AL)to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so.

While marijauna is not smoked for food, it is defenitely consumed, and furthermore when eaten it's medical effects can indeed be felt as well. In fact it's first use as a medicine was through ingestion, and smoking marijauna only gained popular within the past few centuries as tobacco use became widespread.

The core of my faith is abiding in God's love and Him abiding in me by keeping his righteousness and commandments (john 15), most importantly loving God with all my heart mind soul and strength and loving my neighbor as I would want to be loved. I trust and obey my Father and Lord Jesus Christ. I work to be perfect, even as the Father is perfect (Matthew 5:47-48), and allowing his grace and power to work in me leading me into all truth, perfecting me in righteousness, and comforming me to the image of his beloved son.

I have a rare faith (not that being special is important to me), and I enjoy talking to others about my faith.

[Reefer Rogue]

I've recently become a spiritual person. It has all made sense to me. I wear a sterling silver cross around my neck. I say the 'Our Father' Prayer when i wake up and before i go to sleep. I praise Jah before i smoke cannabis. I recently went to church with my grandparents while i was away for a few days, out of choice, and thouroughly enjoyed it. For Rastas, the body is the temple, however i feel i will still go to a christian church aswell. At the moment in my life, I live in London, England. Ganja is not legal, it is tolerated more then most places though, However, after this last year i shall move to Amsterdam. In my job at the moment i am not allowed to have a beard... They said they prefer short hair and my girl says the same. As soon as i move to dam i am growing my dreads and beard in dedication to Jah and i will be able to freely express my faith in the highest possible way. My beliefs and philosophy may confuse some people but i am content and am completely clear. Praise Jah and may peace be with you.

[rebgirl420]

My family is catholic though I am a firm atheist. Though I respect others right to worship whatever way they wish...as long as I don't have to be involved in ANY way. I want absolutely NO religion in my house. I will raise my children to be atheist when I have them. When I get married I will not have ANY religion involved. Common sense runs my life.

[LegalizeTheGreen]

Do not kill, do not rape, do not steal. These are principles which every man, of every faith can embrace.
These are not polite suggestions. These are codes of behaviour. And those of you that ignore them will pay the dearest cost.
-The Boondock Saints

I am a christian, though I disagree with many aspects of the church. I believe that while the church may have started out good, through time and the corruption of power, and the oppression of so many, the church has left the "true path" and forged their own, which I don't agree with. I try to live my life the best I can, and hope that God will understand I am doing what I feel is right, and am doing my best. besides, maybe when I die I'll be going to chill with Buddha or Allah, I have no way of knowing I am right any more then scholars "knew" the earth was flat. I just make my spiritual way the best I can.

[jamstigator]

I was born and raised Lutheran, but somewhere along the way, I decided that assuming the existence of something that cannot be proven...well, that just wasn't something I could do. You all know what they say about assuming, blah blah.

But, as long as religion stays out of politics and schools, and as long as nobody tries to proselytize in my direction, well, it's like gay sex between consenting adults in the privacy of their own home -- it doesn't affect me at all, and thus doesn't bother me. More power to yas, if it makes you feel better.

[JD1stTimer]

These are all interesting takes. RebGirl, I'm curious... lets say if you had someone over for dinner and they prayed before the meal... would you ask them to leave? Or just for you and John? And if your kids are like "Sally and Jimmy invited us to VBS" would you say they couldn't go? Personally I wouldn't allow wicca or satanism in my house, and if my kids asked if they could go to an equinox ritual or whatever I would say no... but that's because I believe there can be real metaphysical aftereffects. Just curious how it plays from an atheist perspective.

[jdmarcus59]

Iam a christian, and I enjoy sharing the hope that is in me to all that rise qustions about
my faith, I dont like arguing with people who just like to argue, but Iam willing to answer
any qustion from people who are searching for answers, and thoses who hearts are open
to honest feed back. peace

[JD1stTimer]

JDmarcus, I think you're an okay guy. One question, and if you already answered here then I'm sorry I missed it. How do you reconcile using marijuana with your faith? And re: your post to Bogart, do you think that marijuana can't help you get in the right mindset for spiritual exercise? Because I have definitely been able to communicate with the Holy Spirit much easier if I have smoked cannabis. At least to me, it works.

[Sir Bliss]

Christian here.

Never was huge on religion, but I was very involved with the church in my younger years. Went to ccd and whatnot. I consider myself a fairly religious person. I actually had one of the most unbelievable religious experiences of my life about a week ago. It does no justice explaining in words...especially when this high. But it was indescribable and amazing.

[deadfan420]

Hahahaha this thread reminds me of that episode of "That 70s Show" when the stoner Leo (played by Tommy Chong) goes to church and says he loves it because "that dude up there tells stories and that chick over there wails on the organ" (or something like that).

I was born and raised Christian but haven't practiced in years. Islam has been my current religious interest and I have many Muslim friends - some of the nicest people I have ever met.

But I'm still "soul searching", trying to make some sense of my spirituality. I'm not looking for "organized religion" specifically, I'm open to pretty much anything. I tend to believe in God, but He somehow feels distant.

In the meantime I live my life by a few basic principles:

-Everyone deserves to be treated with respect and equality (I'm all for gay rights/marriage and stuff)
-Don't steal
-Don't murder
-Don't harm innocent animals (I'm a HUGE animal lover)
-Try to do something to make the world a better place (ie. volunteer, charity, etc - give back!)

I'm also trying to figure out where weed fits in to my spirituality as well.

sorry for the long post. Great topic though!

[choppile420]

I love mary jane with all my heart. But i love god a trillion times more. Im christian to the core, and i would do anything for him. Although i do smoke weed, I still find it that if im not hurting anyone else, it shouldnt matter as much. and that the punishment should only be as harmful as the thing itself. Some president said that.
Also,,, im not sure.. but isnt there a verse in the bible that says that we should enjoy all seed bearing plants?.. idk for sure. PM me if there is.

[Pass That Shit]

It's not what enters a man that defiles him. It's what comes from the heart and out of the mouth that defiles him. :jointsmile:

[jaGerbom]

lol the bible is a interesting fiction story

[liberate_etu_me]

if you are using pot to get high then you are committing a sin in the eyes of your god, the bible says ,about any substance that affects the workings of your mind or body is a sin if you use it to the point of becoming intoxicated. You can use it but if you use it as a means to alter your state of mind then you are committing a sin of your body which is supposed to be the temple of your god, therfore it is not keepping with the rules of this christian faith. think about that. i am not believer in god or karma. my faith is with myself and my own abilities. Jesus is and was the only true christian imho anything else is a manipulation of his beliefs to subjugate and control the ignorant masses at the time of its creation. look through hjistory and see there has been more death and destruction in the name of the christian god than any other cause ever thought up. keep the teachings of the bible but discard the rest as fodder for the weak minded and easily controlled.

[the image reaper]

Hahahaha this thread reminds me of that episode of "That 70s Show" when the stoner Leo (played by Tommy Chong) goes to church and says he loves it because "that dude up there tells stories and that chick over there wails on the organ" (or something like that).

I was born and raised Christian but haven't practiced in years. Islam has been my current religious interest and I have many Muslim friends - some of the nicest people I have ever met.

But I'm still "soul searching", trying to make some sense of my spirituality. I'm not looking for "organized religion" specifically, I'm open to pretty much anything. I tend to believe in God, but He somehow feels distant.

In the meantime I live my life by a few basic principles:

-Everyone deserves to be treated with respect and equality (I'm all for gay rights/marriage and stuff)
-Don't steal
-Don't murder
-Don't harm innocent animals (I'm a HUGE animal lover)
-Try to do something to make the world a better place (ie. volunteer, charity, etc - give back!)

I'm also trying to figure out where weed fits in to my spirituality as well.

sorry for the long post. Great topic though!

Islam ? ... 'don't murder' ? ... animals ? .. Islam regards animals as filthy, unlcean beasts for the most part, un-worthy of life ... yeah, and we've all seen how they have "strived to make the world a better place" ... don't fall into the "only Islam radicals feel that way" crap ... read the Koran, it is a vicious, murderous cult full of hate for non-believers ... as a Christian, I won't hate you if you turn to Islam, (or anything else), but I will pray for your salvation ... hope you work it all out, while you still have time ... :smokin:

[jdmarcus59]

JDmarcus, I think you're an okay guy. One question, and if you already answered here then I'm sorry I missed it. How do you reconcile using marijuana with your faith? And re: your post to Bogart, do you think that marijuana can't help you get in the right mindset for spiritual exercise? Because I have definitely been able to communicate with the Holy Spirit much easier if I have smoked cannabis. At least to me, it works.

to be honest I dont smoke weed any more, Iam 47 years old and have smoked it most my life, mostly for mood stabelizer, but in this last year I thought I would give it a try once more for back pain, because of what I have read on it, and that is why I came to this web site to read what other people have to say about it
but it did not help my back pain, and to be honest it just made my mind cloudy. But I dont think we need it as christian because God has given us the holy spirit to guide us, no where in the new testment does it teach that we should smoke bud to have a relationship with God. Now if we smoke bud does that mean we will go to hell?? NO. the apostle paul tells us that all things are lawfull to us, because we are no longer under the law, but not all things are profitable. so it is between YOU an GOD to discuss if it is somthing He wants you to do. I have chosen to keep my mind clear so that when the Lord speaks to me through His spirit, I know that it is him, and I dont have to be concered about the qustion,( was that Him or am I just baked lol ) God bless.:)

[Hardcore Newbie]

Islam ? ... 'don't murder' ? ... animals ? .. Islam regards animals as filthy, unlcean beasts for the most part, un-worthy of life ... yeah, and we've all seen how they have "strived to make the world a better place" ... don't fall into the "only Islam radicals feel that way" crap ... read the Koran, it is a vicious, murderous cult full of hate for non-believers ... as a Christian, I won't hate you if you turn to Islam, (or anything else), but I will pray for your salvation ... hope you work it all out, while you still have time ... :smokin:You haven't read the Bible lately either, have you?

[Pass That Shit]

if you are using pot to get high then you are committing a sin in the eyes of your god, the bible says ,about any substance that affects the workings of your mind or body is a sin if you use it to the point of becoming intoxicated. You can use it but if you use it as a means to alter your state of mind then you are committing a sin of your body which is supposed to be the temple of your god, therfore it is not keepping with the rules of this christian faith. think about that. i am not believer in god or karma. my faith is with myself and my own abilities. Jesus is and was the only true christian imho anything else is a manipulation of his beliefs to subjugate and control the ignorant masses at the time of its creation. look through hjistory and see there has been more death and destruction in the name of the christian god than any other cause ever thought up. keep the teachings of the bible but discard the rest as fodder for the weak minded and easily controlled.

Almost everything we do is sin. Whatever is not of faith is sin. You'd be surprised how much sin you have that you're not even aware of. But the lesson in the saying, it's not what enters a man that defiles him, is that no sin can defile our faith.
Unlike religion, where you'll either be kicked out or not accepted because of sin. :asskick:

[jamstigator]

Didn't Jesus preach that one should never (and I mean *never*) commit violence, to always turn the other cheek, no matter what? How many of yas actually practice what the man preached? If you had a gun, and three guys were raping your mother/sister/father, you wouldn't cap their asses? You don't believe in self-defense? No wars are ever moral? We should've rolled over during WWII and ignored Japanese and German atrocities?

Absolute pacifists -- e.g. those who really practice what Jesus preached -- those are really the only ones I would personally consider 'true Christians'. Going to church on Sunday and giving lip service, then going home and voting for wars (*any* wars), or polishing a handgun, well, that's more than a wee bit hypocritical. And yet, that seems like the most common type of Christian, at least in my experience.

I'm *not* an absolute pacifist, which is why I cannot in good conscience call myself a Christian; I believe self-defense is fine, even if the Son of God says that's not so. I believe there are times when violence isn't just okay, but even a moral imperative -- even if the Son of God says that's not so. I would, therefor, consider myself a hypocrite if I *did* label myself Christian.

[UTD Toker]

if you are using pot to get high then you are committing a sin in the eyes of your god, the bible says ,about any substance that affects the workings of your mind or body is a sin if you use it to the point of becoming intoxicated. You can use it but if you use it as a means to alter your state of mind then you are committing a sin of your body which is supposed to be the temple of your god, therfore it is not keepping with the rules of this christian faith. think about that. i am not believer in god or karma. my faith is with myself and my own abilities. Jesus is and was the only true christian imho anything else is a manipulation of his beliefs to subjugate and control the ignorant masses at the time of its creation. look through hjistory and see there has been more death and destruction in the name of the christian god than any other cause ever thought up. keep the teachings of the bible but discard the rest as fodder for the weak minded and easily controlled.

If you use cannabis for a medicinal reason is that also a sin in the lords eyes? Just curious....Christian here, although I don't go to church anymore, I pray everyday and follow what the lord would want me to do. Personally, I find no problem in my smoking as it's to ease my medical condition. Also, just because someone doesnt go to church it doesnt mean hes not a devout(Sp) christian. My family stopped going to church, and I'm the only one out of all my friends that are a christian :( I know this is not a good excuse, but I'm waiting to find a significant other or friend that I can go to church with, as going to a new church by myself seems too hard for me to pursue...

If you ever find yourself in a tough position, just pray. The lord works in mysterous ways my friends:)

[jdmarcus59]

Didn't Jesus preach that one should never (and I mean *never*) commit violence, to always turn the other cheek, no matter what? How many of yas actually practice what the man preached? If you had a gun, and three guys were raping your mother/sister/father, you wouldn't cap their asses? You don't believe in self-defense? No wars are ever moral? We should've rolled over during WWII and ignored Japanese and German atrocities?

Absolute pacifists -- e.g. those who really practice what Jesus preached -- those are really the only ones I would personally consider 'true Christians'. Going to church on Sunday and giving lip service, then going home and voting for wars (*any* wars), or polishing a handgun, well, that's more than a wee bit hypocritical. And yet, that seems like the most common type of Christian, at least in my experience.

I'm *not* an absolute pacifist, which is why I cannot in good conscience call myself a Christian; I believe self-defense is fine, even if the Son of God says that's not so. I believe there are times when violence isn't just okay, but even a moral imperative -- even if the Son of God says that's not so. I would, therefor, consider myself a hypocrite if I *did* label myself Christian.
you have a God given right to defend your self and your love ones
God is not a fool, what jesus was talking about when He said turn
the other check was centered on some one ofending you, we are not to return insult for insult. we have a God given right to defend are selfs from all kinds of evil, once again we can not take a verse
out of context.:)

[jamstigator]

Well, *you* say we have a God-given right to defend ourselves, but that isn't what Jesus taught.

Here are some examples:

"But I say to you, Offer the wicked man no resistance. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also; if a man takes you to law and would have your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone orders you to go one mile, go two miles with him."

No self-defense there. It's pretty clear what he's saying: if people hurt you, allow it. You can also go to the 10 Commandments: "thou shalt not kill". There are no exceptions; it doesn't say "thou shalt not kill unless someone is trying to kill you" or anything like that.

More from Jesus:

""Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who treat you badly."

"You know the commandments: you must not kill..."

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you."

So, while you may think you have a God-given right to self-defense, Jesus would not agree with you. That puts you in a disagreement with the Son of God, and I'm pretty sure He wins all those arguments. This means that you aren't *really* Christian, as I am not, because while I don't think God gave me the right to self-defense, I assert that right for myself, despite the fact that it is the antithesis of what Jesus taught.

There are many more examples of Jesus' pacifism of course.

[jdmarcus59]

Well, *you* say we have a God-given right to defend ourselves, but that isn't what Jesus taught.

Here are some examples:

"But I say to you, Offer the wicked man no resistance. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also; if a man takes you to law and would have your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone orders you to go one mile, go two miles with him."

No self-defense there. It's pretty clear what he's saying: if people hurt you, allow it. You can also go to the 10 Commandments: "thou shalt not kill". There are no exceptions; it doesn't say "thou shalt not kill unless someone is trying to kill you" or anything like that.

More from Jesus:

""Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who treat you badly."

"You know the commandments: you must not kill..."

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you."

So, while you may think you have a God-given right to self-defense, Jesus would not agree with you. That puts you in a disagreement with the Son of God, and I'm pretty sure He wins all those arguments. This means that you aren't *really* Christian, as I am not, because while I don't think God gave me the right to self-defense, I assert that right for myself, despite the fact that it is the antithesis of what Jesus taught.

There are many more examples of Jesus' pacifism of course.
my freind I do not know why you are hung up on this, but I tell you the truth, we have a right to defend those who can not defend them selfs, if you saw a man hurting a child would you try
to stop the man, or would you let the man kill the small child. by stoping the man you are doing good not wrong. in the old testment
many men of God like King david went out and killed the enemy of God at God command, so that Gods people would rule. if you dont belive me read it your self.now is it the Lords will that we should fight are kill each other? no of course not, but we live in a fallen world. when Jesus was talking about turning the other check, He was talking about if some one wrongs you do not try also to hurt them, but to forgive them, He was not talking about self defence, or are right to defend are selfs aganst evil, for the new testment surly teaches that we are to stand aganst all form of evil. And as far as me being a christian Iam, and it is not right for you to judge
for it is written " Do not judge, or you to will be judged. and that is all that needs to be said on this subject. If you are concerend about the things that Jesus said, then be concerend about your own soul, are you Born again? cause Jesus said " no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again"

[natureisawesome]

Jamstigator, you are right in that Jesus taught pacificm, that we are not to retaliate when others try to hurt us or take advantage of us, period. It's not right for us to stand up and say " this is too far. I know what Jesus said but this is just too far". No, it's not too far. Jesus gave the word and we must obey. And those who disobey will recieve the consequences.

But as far as the commandment "thou shalt not kill", it's clearly speaking of murder, of taking a life without just cause. When the Israelites put someone to death, it was because someone broke the laws that God had given them. Therefore it was not them taking action into thier own hands, only carrying out God's ordinances. And if they did not keep justice, they recieved severe discipline from God.

But God has given us a new commandment since that old levittical law has been abolished (not the 10 commandments mind you) saying we must not repay evil with evil period. But rather we should do good to all men, and do kindness to those who persecute us.

Jdmarcus,

that's not what is meant by judge when Jesus says that. Go study it in the Greek.

If you want to talk about judging, judging is when you retaliate on another, even if he has done something wrong to you. That's real judging. You judge him guilty and carry out the consequences by hurting him or some other way, taking things into your own hands. We have the freedom to have an opinion, to speak out against wrong, and not live in ignorance.

When it comes to judging, I don't vote for that reason. Besides the fact that this country was founded upon rebellion, and that the us.. is preserved by the same principle, voting is outright judging of others. You excercise power over another through your ballot to do what you think is right. That's judging.

Now judge yourself so you will not be judged, and follow after the spirit and righteousness, and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. I see a lot of flesh in this thread, and I wish there was more Spirit.

[deadfan420]

Islam ? ... 'don't murder' ? ... animals ? .. Islam regards animals as filthy, unlcean beasts for the most part, un-worthy of life ... yeah, and we've all seen how they have "strived to make the world a better place" ... don't fall into the "only Islam radicals feel that way" crap ... read the Koran, it is a vicious, murderous cult full of hate for non-believers ... as a Christian, I won't hate you if you turn to Islam, (or anything else), but I will pray for your salvation ... hope you work it all out, while you still have time ... :smokin:

No offense, but how many Muslims do you know personally? How many mosques have you been to? I have many good Muslim friends and have been to several mosques.

I don't want to turn this thread into a Islam vs. Christianity thing, but I must respond to your, what I perceive, as insults:

-The only animal Muslims perceive as unclean are pigs. If an animal must be killed for food, it must be done swiftly, cleanly and not in the presence of babies (animals). The animals also must be well fed and given plenty of drinking water, with lots of room to roam around. Compare that to the slaughterhouses and factory farms we have here.

-The Qur'an. Have you read it? It's filled with allegories and metaphors, just like the bible is. And you can't rely on a translation, because Muslims don't regard that as the true Qur'an. For example, the popular myth of the 70 virgins thing is merely a metaphor. In Arabic, Virgins are a symbol of purity. And the Arabic number for 70 (or whatever the exact number is) is like saying in English: "I called you a million times". Of course you don't mean that literally. But that's the problem with translation, it doesn't grasp these concepts that exist in the Arabic language.

-As far as Muslims being a murderous cult, you can say that about any religion. Christianity has a brutal history. Bush (a devout Christian) himself said God told him to invade Iraq. So much for that love and tolerance I keep hearing about.

-Muslims hate non-believers? Maybe some do, just as some Christians are intolerant of non-Christians. The Qur'an says non-believers must be protected and treated with respect. The famous verse about killing unbelievers was revealed at a time when the Prophet was being constantly attacked by pagans and God basically gave him permission to defend himself.


Again, I don't want to turn this thread into a smear campaign against religions, I don't believe in that. I apologize if anyone thinks that's my intentions.

But don't judge a religion until you know something about it. There's a lot of propaganda out there and you can't believe everything you hear. The best way to learn about Islam is to (here's a shocker) make friends with Muslims, check out a mosque and learn what they really believe - not what some preacher thinks they believe.

The Muslims I know have a deep respect for Judaism and Christianity. They don't judge. Even when I told them I smoked weed they were very curious about it - never rebuked me like some of my Christian friends did.

This is the one thing I can't stand about religion: that "holier than thou" attitude. You displayed it in your own post. You said your going to "pray for my salvation" - like you're somehow above me and I need your prayers. Well don't waste your time. I'd rather have no one praying for me at all than one person who is so intolerant of other's beliefs. You're not giving Christianity a good name. My parents, who are strong Christians, might not like my interest in Islam, but they can at least respect it. They can at least know when to ask questions and they know the difference between propoganda and real beliefs. They really do espouse the christian ideal of "love and tolerance." You don't seem to have that.

Sorry for the rant.

[deadfan420]

I should probably also mention that I have been to the Middle East. Their hospitality over there really puts the west to shame. They love talking and learning about other cultures. The call to prayer (played over a loudspeaker five times a day) is beautiful and the prayer times really give them a perspective on life. For almost 30 minutes a day they forget about business, war, and other worldly problems and focus on their spirituality - and it shows in their demeanor and attitude.

[jdmarcus59]

Jamstigator, you are right in that Jesus taught pacificm, that we are not to retaliate when others try to hurt us or take advantage of us, period. It's not right for us to stand up and say " this is too far. I know what Jesus said but this is just too far". No, it's not too far. Jesus gave the word and we must obey. And those who disobey will recieve the consequences.

But as far as the commandment "thou shalt not kill", it's clearly speaking of murder, of taking a life without just cause. When the Israelites put someone to death, it was because someone broke the laws that God had given them. Therefore it was not them taking action into thier own hands, only carrying out God's ordinances. And if they did not keep justice, they recieved severe discipline from God.
in
But God has given us a new commandment since that old levittical law has been abolished (not the 10 commandments mind you) saying we must not repay evil with evil period. But rather we should do good to all men, and do kindness to those who persecute us.

Jdmarcus,

that's not what is meant by judge when Jesus says that. Go study it in the Greek.

If you want to talk about judging, judging is when you retaliate on another, even if he has done something wrong to you. That's real judging. You judge him guilty and carry out the consequences by hurting him or some other way, taking things into your own hands. We have the freedom to have an opinion, to speak out against wrong, and not live in ignorance.

When it comes to judging, I don't vote for that reason. Besides the fact that this country was founded upon rebellion, and that the us.. is preserved by the same principle, voting is outright judging of others. You excercise power over another through your ballot to do what you think is right. That's judging.

Now judge yourself so you will not be judged, and follow after the spirit and righteousness, and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. I see a lot of flesh in this thread, and I wish there was more Spirit.
in matthews ch. 7 jesus teaches about criticizings others He tells us to examine our own MOTIVES and conduct instead of judging others, as in removing the plank out of are own eye, my point was that are dear friend here should not judge my faith, but first take a look at his own heart first. it was a simple statement, not one to be taken out of context.Jesus statement "do not judge" is against the kind of hypocritical judgemental attitude that tears others down in order to build one self up, as in you are not a christian because ect......like I said before this was a simple statement, one that should not be taken out of context. and I think we are clear on this. it is not somthing to argue over. peace:)

[jamstigator]

I'm not 'hung up' on Jesus' pacifism. It is what it is. I greatly respect the few who actually do practice what he taught. But it's an unworkable stance in the real world, unless you want evil to just roll over everyone. I *would* help those who can't help themselves, even if I had to commit acts of violence in doing so. But in good conscience, knowing that I would violate the teachings of Jesus if I deemed it necessary to save lives, I cannot call myself Christian.

Jesus taught what he did because what he promised was bliss in the afterlife; he never said you'd find bliss in *this* life, pretty much just misery and suffering. Likewise, the evil folks will pay for their misdeeds in the *afterlife*, not necessarily in this life. So, in that context, complete nonviolence does make sense. Let evil take over, it doesn't matter, they'll pay for it later. However, being from the Show Me State, I have seen no convincing evidence that there *is* an afterlife, and if there isn't, then the teachings of Jesus just results in evil rolling over people in *this* life. And I can't accept that.

[LegalizeTheGreen]

I have to say it is disgusting to see some of the anti muslim campaigns going on by some people from this site. By generalizing like that you not only embarress yourself, but your country, faith, and family.

now as for Jesus being all passive, remember when he went agro on the moneychangers in the temple? even the son of God can raise a little ruckus, so I don't think he meant everything completle literaly, more figurativly. He did afterall have a thing for parables ;)

[BlueDevil]

now as for Jesus being all passive, remember when he went agro on the moneychangers in the temple? even the son of God can raise a little ruckus, so I don't think he meant everything completle literaly, more figurativly. He did afterall have a thing for parables


LOL@ the WoW reference! But you're right, there's this popular image of the one they call Jesus being some kind of pacifist, which is odd as we know on one occasion he incited a riot where people were likely killed and he himself employed a whip - a weapon that focuses on pain creation mind you. Funny behavior for a pacifist!

Anyway, I'm another ex-christian. Had my doubts at an early age but didn't stand up to my mother over it until my teens, it was quite a family flap. The various versions of the bible are all products of man, and for them to be referred to as 'the word of god' is not only entirely false, but almost comical given the sanctity people place on the tradition. While I don't have a problem with people practicing whatever gives them hope or a sense of belonging, it would be a little easier to take christians seriously if they actually acted a little, you know, christ-like. That many talk down to those that have the nerve not to view the world through a similar idealogical lens just makes their image all the worse.
If they follow the teachings of this Jesus, why emphasize the gospels and not the Beatitudes? If "the bible" is sacred and holy, why do mortals get to edit and/or ignore the parts of scripture they don't agree with? Why were 19 commandments hacked down to 10? I refuse to place such sanctity on something that's been impaired by centuries of ego, bias, politics, and in places good ol mythology.

With the exception of evangelicals, I like christians and count them among my friends and family.

With regards to the Islamic posts earlier, I feel it's germane to share some of my own experiences. I spent a number of years living in the Middle East as a kid, specifically Qatar and Oman. Later in life, I attended high school and college in the deep south (the Bible Belt is an apt term). In 5 years of living "downrange," I never had a single muslim confront me, ridicule me, or insult me for being a Western non-Muslim. On the contrary, my family and I were shown every hospitality and treated like near royalty. Fast forward to college - being hassled by Baptists on campus was an almost weekly event. Local churches would picket bars and clubs and heckle people going in or leaving, same with concerts. Six blocks from my apartment a woman's clinic doctor and his bodyguard were assassinated by a gunman while I was unpacking my car from a road trip -heard the shots fired and subsequent police sirens.

Now don't take that as willful ignorance concerning the existence of bomb-ladden jihadi, I just harbor no illusions that every religion has it's share of wackos (Westboro Baptists anyone? KKK?)

[rebgirl420]

These are all interesting takes. RebGirl, I'm curious... lets say if you had someone over for dinner and they prayed before the meal... would you ask them to leave? Or just for you and John? And if your kids are like "Sally and Jimmy invited us to VBS" would you say they couldn't go? Personally I wouldn't allow wicca or satanism in my house, and if my kids asked if they could go to an equinox ritual or whatever I would say no... but that's because I believe there can be real metaphysical aftereffects. Just curious how it plays from an atheist perspective.

No I wouldn't make someone who prayed at my dinner table leave. Though I would tell them that I am indeed atheist (as is my future family) and in my house I don't want any prayer. And I dont know what VBS is but I assume its a christian event and no I wouldnt let my children go. But dont assume that I wouldn't teach my kids about other religions. They need to know about all of the religions so that when their adults they can make their own decisions about faith.

[nightlight]

LOL@ the WoW reference! But you're right, there's this popular image of the one they call Jesus being some kind of pacifist, which is odd as we know on one occasion he incited a riot where people were likely killed and he himself employed a whip - a weapon that focuses on pain creation mind you. Funny behavior for a pacifist!

Anyway, I'm another ex-christian. Had my doubts at an early age but didn't stand up to my mother over it until my teens, it was quite a family flap. The various versions of the bible are all products of man, and for them to be referred to as 'the word of god' is not only entirely false, but almost comical given the sanctity people place on the tradition. While I don't have a problem with people practicing whatever gives them hope or a sense of belonging, it would be a little easier to take christians seriously if they actually acted a little, you know, christ-like. That many talk down to those that have the nerve not to view the world through a similar idealogical lens just makes their image all the worse.
If they follow the teachings of this Jesus, why emphasize the gospels and not the Beatitudes? If "the bible" is sacred and holy, why do mortals get to edit and/or ignore the parts of scripture they don't agree with? Why were 19 commandments hacked down to 10? I refuse to place such sanctity on something that's been impaired by centuries of ego, bias, politics, and in places good ol mythology.

With the exception of evangelicals, I like christians and count them among my friends and family.

With regards to the Islamic posts earlier, I feel it's germane to share some of my own experiences. I spent a number of years living in the Middle East as a kid, specifically Qatar and Oman. Later in life, I attended high school and college in the deep south (the Bible Belt is an apt term). In 5 years of living "downrange," I never had a single muslim confront me, ridicule me, or insult me for being a Western non-Muslim. On the contrary, my family and I were shown every hospitality and treated like near royalty. Fast forward to college - being hassled by Baptists on campus was an almost weekly event. Local churches would picket bars and clubs and heckle people going in or leaving, same with concerts. Six blocks from my apartment a woman's clinic doctor and his bodyguard were assassinated by a gunman while I was unpacking my car from a road trip -heard the shots fired and subsequent police sirens.

Now don't take that as willful ignorance concerning the existence of bomb-ladden jihadi, I just harbor no illusions that every religion has it's share of wackos (Westboro Baptists anyone? KKK?)
i just watched the westboro baptist church documentary last night. that shit is out of control. i wanted to put my fist through the screen the whole time and that is rather out of character for me.

[BlueDevil]

just an FYI, KKK members are no more christians then the nazis were. as with most religous fundamentalists, they are simply hiding behind religion to cover their sadistic and psychotic tendencies. this is a sadly common practice nowdays *cough *cough George Bush *cough, and it isn't limited to one religion that is "used".

I completely agree with you on both points, however just FYI your avatar kinda gums up your cred regarding Bush - and I say that as someone who thinks that brainless chimp belongs in the Guantanamo Hilton with free rides on the water-board express for the all the harm he's done to our nation.
Retarded tool, dishonest crook, and worst president ever of my lifetime? Absolutely. The second coming of der Fuhrer? Not quite. Not trying to pick on you, I actually got a good laugh from that pic the first time I saw it. ;)

I take it you've heard of Godwin's Law?

[burnable]

It's too bad that the term 'christian' is so interchangeable. When someone says they're a christian, the fact that they used that term indicates to me that they are less like christ and more like a conformist.

Why do christians look at christ like he's a care giver? Hand over all your worries and he'll liberate you. Wouldn't a better approach be to look at him like a mentor? Y'know, "be ye therefore perfect, even as I am perfect." I forget the reference. It seems to me that when he implored his followers to cast off their burdens, he was speaking of earthly, materialistic burdens, and in doing so one accepts far greater, ethereal burdens.

If we're supposed to strive to be like christ, life should be unequivocally selfless and difficult, not personally enriching by doing so-called good deeds, which are abused in the sense that people feel justified with themselves for reaping just another form of pleasure, albeit a nonsensual form of pleasure.

No christian should have a hard time reconciling their pot use with jesus. "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles a man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles a man." Sorry again, no reference. The act of cannabis smoking alone doesn't define your spiritual status, but what you do after. Some people have very christlike attributes after puffing, others invariably don't.

I personally feel that Christ is the supreme role model. I'm skeptical about someone's decency when they claim christianity, I'm more impressed when there's no mention of it, and instead there prevails the countenance of Christ in their daily behavior.

[LegalizeTheGreen]

I completely agree with you on both points, however just FYI your avatar kinda gums up your cred regarding Bush - and I say that as someone who thinks that brainless chimp belongs in the Guantanamo Hilton with free rides on the water-board express for the all the harm he's done to our nation.
Retarded tool, dishonest crook, and worst president ever of my lifetime? Absolutely. The second coming of der Fuhrer? Not quite. Not trying to pick on you, I actually got a good laugh from that pic the first time I saw it. ;)

I take it you've heard of Godwin's Law?

aw, just because I dislike Bush means I can't be logical when discussing his "brilliant" presidential career? I also feel I must add that while not exactly Hitler, they do share some striking similarities, at the very least, enough to parody.

as for Godwins law...
"However, Godwin's Law itself can be abused, as a distraction or diversion, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. A 2005 Reason magazine article argued that Godwin's law is often misused to ridicule even valid comparisons."
-Wikipedia

not to say anything negative, but just because it is an exageration doesn't mean it isn't true in some respects ;) .

some similarities are their dislikes of minorities (such as the Gays)... their religous fanaticism... their vast propaganda machines... and their love of blacing blame on others to justify their agendas (hitler=jews, Bush=terrorists).

I'm simply using a funny avatar that sums up alot of my views in one picture to broadcast my political views in one swift stroke.

[Hardcore Newbie]

I'm simply using a funny avatar that sums up alot of my views in one picture to broadcast my political views in one swift stroke.Two strokes... there's a gap in the moustache hahaha :)

[imitator]

It's too bad that the term 'christian' is so interchangeable. When someone says they're a christian, the fact that they used that term indicates to me that they are less like christ and more like a conformist.

Why do christians look at christ like he's a care giver? Hand over all your worries and he'll liberate you. Wouldn't a better approach be to look at him like a mentor? Y'know, "be ye therefore perfect, even as I am perfect." I forget the reference. It seems to me that when he implored his followers to cast off their burdens, he was speaking of earthly, materialistic burdens, and in doing so one accepts far greater, ethereal burdens.

If we're supposed to strive to be like christ, life should be unequivocally selfless and difficult, not personally enriching by doing so-called good deeds, which are abused in the sense that people feel justified with themselves for reaping just another form of pleasure, albeit a nonsensual form of pleasure.

No christian should have a hard time reconciling their pot use with jesus. "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles a man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles a man." Sorry again, no reference. The act of cannabis smoking alone doesn't define your spiritual status, but what you do after. Some people have very christlike attributes after puffing, others invariably don't.

I personally feel that Christ is the supreme role model. I'm skeptical about someone's decency when they claim christianity, I'm more impressed when there's no mention of it, and instead there prevails the countenance of Christ in their daily behavior.

Exactly.

I would think that a God(s) would be more impressed, and happier with those who were able to live their teachings, without the need of a carrot on a stick to get them to do so. When you ask most chrisitians why they do something, its because the bible said this, or jesus said that, or god told me so. Its never because THEY feel its the right thing to do, but because others told them so.

It is in a mans actions, not their beliefs, that you find who they are. Many christians have been horrible human beings, and many athiests/agnostics/other religion based people have been amazing human beings, and vice versa. Its not the religion that makes the man, but the actions. And any true diety would recognize that, and want that. Why wouldnt a god want people to be able to live life how that god wished, without needing to threaten or bribe said person in order to do so?

I dont need the threat of eternal doom, or the promise of eternal bliss to make me want to live a good life. I just want to. I dont need a carrot on a stick.

When you really get to the basics of any religion, it was about lessons. The bible is a book filled with great anecdotes and such, showing how to lead a good life. Examples for which you should take into consideration, and try to learn from. MAN took that and used it to their advantage in many many ways.

Every religion is trying to teach their followers the way to live a good life. And every one comes down to the basic laws that were mentioned earlier. And in the end, that is what matters. Living a good life, wether it be in Christs name, Buddha's name, Zeus' name, or any other diety, is what matters, not who's name it was done in.

A good act done by a believer of Zeus is no less good then the same act done by a believer of Christ. There isnt a difference, outside of those who wish to put themselves above other men, using their religion as a form of superiority.

Some people are able to find their path, and do good things, and feel no need to affiliate themselves with religion in any way. Others feel that they need religion, they need God in their lives to live a good pure life. Some might call the second group weak, but not myself. I personally feel, that as long as you are able to live a good life, it doesnt matter how you are getting to it. Some people are able to find the path to such a thing without assistance, great, if they need help, then thats just as great as well.

Everyones path is different, and there is no one answer that is right and true for all. To think so would be ignorant in my opinion.

And any God so petty that he would punish his/her/their children for not doing things in their name, while they were still living their life the way said God wanted all followers to, is no god that I wish to have any part with ever. They should be happy that their children are living how they wished them to... how self absorbed and full of ones self do you have to be in order to refuse to recognize anything that isnt done in your name?

Personally though, I dont think thats the case. If a God(s) exists, they care how people live their lives, not for whom they live it for. Why? Because the entire idea of a God is someone who is omni-prescent, omni-potent, and eternal, and above all the faults that humans have, because it/they are perfect. Being petty like that would be above them, as they are perfect... so once again we see that its very likely that man put the idea of God(s) punishing those who did good, but didnt do it in their name.

[DarkHairedSativa]

Hey all,

I've been surprised to see several posts on here coming from a Christian perspective. A Bible-believing Christian myself, I'm curious how many of you are like me, not just Christians because we were baptized or have the surname Smith or whatever, but cannabis users who actually practice and live the Christian faith. I include all forms, Gnostic, Coptic, Orthodox, Catholic, Rastafari, you name it. And please no bashing of anyone else's choice. If you are non-Christian feel free to say so too, but please keep your comments about your own life only. I'd also like to hear how you reconcile cannabis use and your faith, if yours is one in which the use of cannabis is generally considered a sin. Thanks, and I look forward to all the great posts out there!!

I am a Bible believing Christian,Not due to any legalities,just simply saved through Christ.I smoke weed and the way i look at it is,it's natural.It's not man made by intermixing a bunch of chemicals.I'd much rather take a bong hit to relieve nausea and/or pain than take a pill I'm not quite sure what it's made out of.I believe that God gave us all we need to to survive naturally.I'm a firm believer in the medical marijuana movement.I do NOT think it is a "gateway" drug.That's a lame perspective.Anyhow,that's my take on it....;):jointsmile:

[BlueDevil]

aw, just because I dislike Bush means I can't be logical when discussing his "brilliant" presidential career? I also feel I must add that while not exactly Hitler, they do share some striking similarities, at the very least, enough to parody.

as for Godwins law...
"However, Godwin's Law itself can be abused, as a distraction or diversion, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. A 2005 Reason magazine article argued that Godwin's law is often misused to ridicule even valid comparisons."
-Wikipedia

not to say anything negative, but just because it is an exageration doesn't mean it isn't true in some respects .

some similarities are their dislikes of minorities (such as the Gays)... their religous fanaticism... their vast propaganda machines... and their love of blacing blame on others to justify their agendas (hitler=jews, Bush=terrorists).

I'm simply using a funny avatar that sums up alot of my views in one picture to broadcast my political views in one swift stroke.

Not at all, I guess what I'm saying is (and this probably isn't a surprise to you) is that there is a very loud, somewhat dim crowd who forgoes the thought process involved in appraising Bush's various, mostly bad decisions and dives right into almost childish ad homs and nonsensical ranting. You are obviously someone who has been paying attention these last 6 years or so, and I commend you for that! I suppose it irks me that those like you and I are dismissed by the bushbots and other partisan ideologues as part of 'that crowd' precisely because we don't have a problem with humor like the icon. Hitler's visage has become almost interchangeable with the deliberate extermination of millions of innocents. Bush's instantly conjures notions of stupidity, nepotism, incompetence, crony-ism, conflict-of-interest, to name a few. If being initially dismissed over the chasm of difference there is ok with you, then it's fine with me - not like you lack any ability in clarifying yourself and thus, differentiating yourself from the very group you obviously are not part of.

Quite a list that was! Not to mention more than a little disturbing. Right there with ya in regards to the thread itself btw. Am I correct in thinking the mention of Kyoto is false? I thought we didn't ratify it - pretty sure that's different than scraping it altogether a la the AntiBallistic Missile Treaty.

[jdmarcus59]

Exactly.

I would think that a God(s) would be more impressed, and happier with those who were able to live their teachings, without the need of a carrot on a stick to get them to do so. When you ask most chrisitians why they do something, its because the bible said this, or jesus said that, or god told me so. Its never because THEY feel its the right thing to do, but because others told them so.

It is in a mans actions, not their beliefs, that you find who they are. Many christians have been horrible human beings, and many athiests/agnostics/other religion based people have been amazing human beings, and vice versa. Its not the religion that makes the man, but the actions. And any true diety would recognize that, and want that. Why wouldnt a god want people to be able to live life how that god wished, without needing to threaten or bribe said person in order to do so?

I dont need the threat of eternal doom, or the promise of eternal bliss to make me want to live a good life. I just want to. I dont need a carrot on a stick.

When you really get to the basics of any religion, it was about lessons. The bible is a book filled with great anecdotes and such, showing how to lead a good life. Examples for which you should take into consideration, and try to learn from. MAN took that and used it to their advantage in many many ways.

Every religion is trying to teach their followers the way to live a good life. And every one comes down to the basic laws that were mentioned earlier. And in the end, that is what matters. Living a good life, wether it be in Christs name, Buddha's name, Zeus' name, or any other diety, is what matters, not who's name it was done in.

A good act done by a believer of Zeus is no less good then the same act done by a believer of Christ. There isnt a difference, outside of those who wish to put themselves above other men, using their religion as a form of superiority.

Some people are able to find their path, and do good things, and feel no need to affiliate themselves with religion in any way. Others feel that they need religion, they need God in their lives to live a good pure life. Some might call the second group weak, but not myself. I personally feel, that as long as you are able to live a good life, it doesnt matter how you are getting to it. Some people are able to find the path to such a thing without assistance, great, if they need help, then thats just as great as well.

Everyones path is different, and there is no one answer that is right and true for all. To think so would be ignorant in my opinion.

And any God so petty that he would punish his/her/their children for not doing things in their name, while they were still living their life the way said God wanted all followers to, is no god that I wish to have any part with ever. They should be happy that their children are living how they wished them to... how self absorbed and full of ones self do you have to be in order to refuse to recognize anything that isnt done in your name?

Personally though, I dont think thats the case. If a God(s) exists, they care how people live their lives, not for whom they live it for. Why? Because the entire idea of a God is someone who is omni-prescent, omni-potent, and eternal, and above all the faults that humans have, because it/they are perfect. Being petty like that would be above them, as they are perfect... so once again we see that its very likely that man put the idea of God(s) punishing those who did good, but didnt do it in their name.

my friend by what you write, I can only belive that you are not
a christian, and if you are not a christian the dont presume that
you know what goes on inside my heart, and if you are not a christian then the spirt of God does not live in you according to ARE faith, there fore you know not God are the things of God, so dont come on this web site and start puting people down, when you do not know what you are talking about, the rules of this web site is RESPECT, so dont say we are donkeys being led around by a stick, instead of coming on this web site and and out of the blue
start putting down a faith that you really dont know anything about, Iknow you think you do but you dont, why dont you talk about things you do know, like your fore fathers being monkeys.

[imitator]

my friend by what you write, I can only belive that you are not
a christian, and if you are not a christian the dont presume that
you know what goes on inside my heart, and if you are not a christian then the spirt of God does not live in you according to ARE faith, there fore you know not God are the things of God, so dont come on this web site and start puting people down, when you do not know what you are talking about, the rules of this web site is RESPECT, so dont say we are donkeys being led around by a stick, instead of coming on this web site and and out of the blue
start putting down a faith that you really dont know anything about, Iknow you think you do but you dont, why dont you talk about things you do know, like your fore fathers being monkeys.

Ignoring the irony in you accusing me of assuming things while assuming so much yourself...

I was roman catholic for 18 years. Devout. I didnt just believe in the things that were taught, and the stories that were given, ... I KNEW they were true. And then one day, after seeing so many horrid things, I slowly became less brainwashed(in my opinion that is what it was... I was never shown any other religion, never allowed to foster any beliefs in anything else), and started to question and explore other things.

Also, considering I am about 2 classes away from my Philosophy and World Religions bachelors, I would have to say that I know your religion, and quite a few others better then most, id even wager better then yourself. However, I am not condescending, I wont tell you what you do or do not know, because in the end it doesnt matter. Just because you do or do not know a specific thing doesnt mean your opinion, and your thought process isnt as important as mine or anyone elses.

Not to mention, the comment about the carrot on the stick wasnt directed towards your religion of choice, or anyone elses, but the ideology and methodology of most religions. The fact that you took it personally, and assumed it was a personal attack directed towards you in any way is telling, but that is neither here nor there.

You can not deny that a religion that tells you that if you do good you are eternally rewarded, but if you do bad then you are eternally punished isnt trying to bait people into actions. If its not baiting, then what is it? And if they really wanted to reward and punish, they wouldnt tell people of the rewards and punishments, just state their "rules" and go at that. The people who followed the rules get rewarded, those who dont are punished, but neither side gets to see the end prize before they are finished with the "game".

Oh, and the insults were uncalled for. I know you thought you or your religion were being attacked in some manner, but that isnt the case, and might I remind you that the personal insults or attacks are not very christian.

Now, back to the subject at hand...

Do you personally feel that a good action done by someone of a one religion or belief system is any more or less good then the exact same action being done by another religion or belief system? If so, why?

I have no problem having a rational, non-insulting conversation with you about anything being talked about in this thread. But I do ask that if you cant keep the insults and jumping to conclusions down to a bare minimum, that you just refrain from responding to my posts, I dont much care to deal with people who dont have the respect for themselves or others to present themselves in a decent manner and show respect to other posters.

[deadfan420]

What was the original topic of this thread again?

[Psycho4Bud]

Seems what we had in here was a failure to communicate......I believe that is now taken care of. ONE MORE TIME.......RESPECT!

Have a good one!:thumbsup: