Ebb and Flow..what size pots?

[razzapiggy]

Planning a 3000 watt Sour Diesel grow, switching from SunShine#4 (hand watering) to a EBB and flow type system. Have a few questions from people who have done ebb and flow.

I am going to use Hydro Rocks (expanding clay) but I am a bit unsure of what size pots to use right now. I currently use 3 gallon pots for my project, but I am guessing that is over-kill with ebb and flow. The weight of the hydro rocks alone would be pretty heavy for a table wouldn't it? Would two gallon pots be enough or does one gallon even work? I have friends who do NFT in tiny little containers with hydro rocks, but that's kind of comparing apples to oranges isn't it? I plan to veg for about 1.5 weeks, but keep in mind the diesel grows pretty darn tall...I know with most mediums you need a gallon per foot of growth, but this doesn't apply to hydro right?

Second question, I don't like trays because it makes it very difficult to move plants around, kind of like playing one of those games where you need to slide the little pieces out by finding the perfect combination of pieces to move in order to get it out. What can be used as an alternative? I am not super familiar with ebb and flow, but I know that the plants have to be suspended in air off the table so that the roots aren't jammed into the table. I was thinking just cut a few holes in the table and place metal rods in it to suspecd the plants...does that work or am I not thinking of an easier method?

[Opie Yutts]

I use 5" net pots and my plants end up 2-3 feet tall. You are always supposed to have a way of securing the stems so they don't break or fall over when the get heavy anyway, so with hydro you can get away with some really small pots. That's one reason I scrog. It is usual for much of the root mass to grow out of the net pot, that's why they have holes in the pots. Good choice on expanded clay pellets. These work wonderfully. Just lay your sapling on some capilary matting and gently fill in the pot around it with the pellets. Very easy.

Sounds like metal rods would work for what you are trying to do. I was lucky enough to have access to a CNC, so I cut 5" holes in 1.5" plywood, just big enough so lip of the pot rested on top of the plywood, and the rest was suspended undernieth.

[razzapiggy]

Cool, how was your yield Opie? I was planning to grow em a bit bigger than 3 feet I think... them diesels get big in a hurry.

I'm also brainstorming ways of holding the ladies up. I am trying to avoid doing a SCROG because of the messy-ness factor, and also I would like to be able to move the plants for a few hours in case of an emergency... SCROG makes that rather difficult. Was thinking I could attach something to the edge of the tables and tie em up that way, just need to make sure I can get access to each plant to do so, but with 4X4 tables seperated by a foot or two of each other, it should work just fine.

Sweet call using the CNC, did you paint the wood with some sort of anti fungal or did the water never go up that high to touch the wood I'm guessing? Thanks for the reply and help. Got a link to any of your grows? Would love to check it out.

[stinkyattic]

Razza, another possibility is to hang a whole bunch of lightweight chains from the ceiling and use small hooks and twist-ties to support your plants.

[razzapiggy]

Thanks Stinky... you da woman. Do plants need to be suspended with a flood and drain or do they just sit in the table? I always assumed they were suspended otherwise the roots would get squished into the table but my friend is telling me they just sit there. If so, that's a pretty damn simple system.

[Opie Yutts]

Sure razzapiggy, here's a link: http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/63247-your-ak47-your-ak47-stadium-scrog-any-questions.html (http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/63247-your-ak47-your-ak47-stadium-scrog-any-questions.html)
It doesn't show a whole bunch, but you can get an idea, and the thread may answer a couple of your questions. Got more some where... but where...?

If I had to move my plants often (or at all I guess) after they started flowering, I suppose I would make each plant and tie down method self contained. You cant have any part of the plant tied off to any part of your grow area if you plan to move it. Therefore I would probably use 6" pots, and put about 4 garden stakes in them to tie the stalks to when they start getting heavy. At that point the roots should be big and entangled enough to help support the stakes in the pot of pellets. Anyway for what you want you'll need to be able to move the plants and the support method at the same time.

No, I didn't put an antifungle on my plywood. I water sealed it. The nute level never gets high enough to touch the wood, but occasionally some mist from popping bubbles would land on it. Should last for quite awhile, but if I could have it in a strong plastic, of course that would be better. My current one was free though.

Plants do not have to be suspended. It is better though for a few reasons. For one, you would like to be able to move your plants and put them back. In case the pots are sitting directly on something, (the resevior bottom?) you just have to be careful that you don't smash the roots when you set the pots back in.

[Opie Yutts]

Oh yeah, for a 5" pot sitting on the resevoir bottom, don't have the nute level any deeper than about 1.5 inches. You don't want to drown your plant.

[razzapiggy]

You grow looks nice, best of luck in the next few weeks... keep us posted.

Haven't had someone say to just pop the little bamboo stakes right in the root structure, but I will take your word for it until someone claims otherwise - but I never have heard of that. Keep up the good work

[stinkyattic]

Naw you can do the bamboo stakes just FINE. Put them in early, as soon as they can stand up on their own. That minimizes root disturbance down the road.

Although come to think of it, if you can find INERT stakes, made of PLASTIC, like pieces of small gauge PVC pipe, that would be better, since bamboo ones can rot. Plus you can run PVC through the dishwasher to sterilize it for the next grow.

But I think bamboo would still be okay. I use them in soil but it's a different ballgame.

[starmark]

use trays and just rockwool by itself ,no clay pebbles, way too much work to clean....4 in rockwool is plenty big enough to grow all the way thru harvest and you can move your plants around if needed....chicken wire 2 or 3 ft above will allow plants to grow thru and keep them from falling over

[Opie Yutts]

Naw you can do the bamboo stakes just FINE. Put them in early, as soon as they can stand up on their own. That minimizes root disturbance down the road.

Although come to think of it, if you can find INERT stakes, made of PLASTIC, like pieces of small gauge PVC pipe, that would be better, since bamboo ones can rot. Plus you can run PVC through the dishwasher to sterilize it for the next grow.

But I think bamboo would still be okay. I use them in soil but it's a different ballgame.

I was thinking more of the heaveir duty garden stakes. They have metal inside and a plastic coating outside. Should be in the same section as bamboo stakes. And I was thinking of putting the stakes in at the same time you fill the pots with pellets. Actually, just before.

[Opie Yutts]

You could even twisty-tie the stakes to the pots since net pots have holes in them.

[Opie Yutts]

use trays and just rockwool by itself ,no clay pebbles, way too much work to clean....4 in rockwool is plenty big enough to grow all the way thru harvest and you can move your plants around if needed....chicken wire 2 or 3 ft above will allow plants to grow thru and keep them from falling over

I know many people swear by rockwool. There also many people that hate it, including myself. The main reason is it holds too much moisture. I started out using rockwool, and kept having too much trouble with rot and stuff. I switched to clay pellets and have never had a problem since. I'll never go back.

[starmark]

your rite opie about the rot problem that can be associated with rockwool,but i found that flooding only twice daily solves the problem .sometimes i have to up it to 3 floods a day during these hotter months but i havent had a root rot prob since i changed to flooding less(i hope i didnt just jinx myself)...

[crazywill]

You can try this with net pots or 1 gal pots tie plastic tubing to the sides with zip-ties before you fill with clay balls.that way if you need to stake them you can.PEACE

[razzapiggy]

Thanks for all the help gang. I think I've decided I will buy plastic stakes, and put them in the net pots prior to filling em with hydro rocks. It's great to see such a collaboration of ideas on this website, a very cool thing to be a part of.

Now if I could just get rid of these fucking mites that caused me to need to take down this harvest about 1.5 weeks early and lose tons of weight on my bud... life would be perfect!

I'm growing in a bedroom... it has a carpet... seems they kept coming back - I am sure they were hiding in the carpet.

[razzapiggy]

P.S anyone who wants to throw in their two cents about what size pots they use, feel free still.

I usually grow my plants to about 4.5 feet tall, I'm thinking 5 inch pots may be a bit small..

[Sleepyhead1]

5 inch pot will be fine if ur in hydro. The plants roots will become SUPER Long so really dont have to worry bout too much outgrowing