The Samson Option

[Torog]

The Samson Option
July 19, 2007 | (author's name withheld by request)


Posted on 07/19/2007 2:47:10 AM PDT


With Iran attempting to acquire a nuclear capability, I'm not as worried that they would fire a slavo of nuclear tipped missiles from Iranian territory over Iraq and Jordan in a first strike against Israel as I am that they would clandestinely provide missiles and warheads to Hezboullah via Syria.

If the missiles were launched from Iranian territory, the entire world would know about it and Iran would pay a terrible price in retribution. Missiles fired from Iran would also give Israel maybe 15 more minutes response time to scramble assets in response.

Nuclear tipped missiles fired from Southern Lebanon, however, would have a much shorter flight time, a shallower trajectory, and have potentially greater accuracy. Nuclear missiles fired from Southern Lebanon would also provide Iran some minimal cover since they could argue that Al Quieda, Pakistan, or someone else was to blame.

Israel is so small geographically that 6, 7, or 8 nuclear explosions on their soil could result in the death of maybe half their population. The resulting chaos would be tremendous. Telecommunications would be severely disrupted. Government command and control would be seriously disrupted. Mobilizing military assets after a strike would be very difficult, particularly when much of your active and reserve personnel are dead and the infrastructure is in chaos.

I can envision, that with Israel being pushed to the brink of destruction by such a strike, that the Syrian army and the Palestinians, and other groups, would be motivated to take an iodine pill, put on a surgical mask, shout "Allah Akbar" and storm into Israel to finish off whatever or whoever is left, despite the danger of residual radiation, because they would claim and believe, that even if they got seriosly sick and died as a result of operating under nuclear fallout, they would believe that they would die a martyer's death and be proud that they gave their lives in the final destruction of Israel.

This brings me to the supposed Samson Option. Israel must certainly be aware of such an existential threat. Therefore, Israel must certainly keep their counterstrike capability spread out as best they can within their confined space. Israel must certainly have a chain of command responsibility worked out to such a degree that someone within the chain of command is always out of area, but within communication. Israel must certainly keep a certain number of nuclear capable aircraft airborne over Israel or the Mediteranean Sea at all times with a refueling aircraft as well. Israel must keep a certain number of naval assets constantly at sea with nuclear tipped cruise missile capability. Israel may even attempt to keep one of their few submarines with nuclear tipped cruise missile capability in the Gulf of Oman as often as they can. Israel must certainly keep their nuclear capable Jericho missiles dispersed.

The Samson Option essentially means, if you take me down, I'm taking as many of you as I can with me.

So what would be acceptible targets under the Samson option? I suppose it would depend on where the attack came from, but if the destruction of Israel is certain, I would guess that any large Arab cities would be potential targets, including cities in countries that may not have even played a role in the destruction of Israel. Damascus and Theran certainly, but maybe even Cairo, Rihyad, and Mecca. With several hundred nuclear weapons available, as many believe Israel posseses, many more Arab cities could become targets as well for the Samson option.

Comments and discussion welcome.

[Psycho4Bud]

Hey Torog.......I've read where they have 200+ nuclear missiles ready to go. This is the one aspect that people don't look at; IF Iran were to get a nuke everybody with a lick of sense knows where their first launch would be heading for. In retaliation.......a HUGE glass parking lot in the middle east. I really don't know how much of that region that Israel would really spare in the face of imminant defeat.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Torog]

Hey Torog.......I've read where they have 200+ nuclear missiles ready to go. This is the one aspect that people don't look at; IF Iran were to get a nuke everybody with a lick of sense knows where their first launch would be heading for. In retaliation.......a HUGE glass parking lot in the middle east. I really don't know how much of that region that Israel would really spare in the face of imminant defeat.

Have a good one!:s4:
Howdy Psycho4Bud,

Another aspect that many fail to think about,is that China will probably assist the Iranian's goals,or the North Koreans will and there's alot more going on behind the scenes as other countries hostile to America,will try to fight us by proxy,which is what Iran is already doing to us,in Iraq.

I look forward to the day,when we can 'tear the blanket' with Saudia Arabia,as they are behind alot of the crapola going on in regards to terrorism,despite 'helping' in the war on terror.

Meanwhile,LT is over at the other board,attacking me personally and that's gittin really old and I just want to debate the issues..oh well..lol..seems that there's plenty of folks here,who might actually comment on the issue instead of trying to distort and discredit the truth.

Have a good one ! :jointsmile:

[Psycho4Bud]

Meanwhile,LT is over at the other board,attacking me personally and that's gittin really old and I just want to debate the issues..oh well..lol..seems that there's plenty of folks here,who might actually comment on the issue instead of trying to distort and discredit the truth.

And that's exactly the reason why he's not here. Your welcome anytime bro!

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

I think we should stop worrying about Israel and let them fend for themselves. That is what has gotten us in so much trouble with the Arab world already. With 200+ nukes, they can take on most any comers and win. It really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to support the thorn in the Arabs side and expect any cooperation from Arabs. Here's the deal. The oil rich Arabs have to sell their oil somewhere. If we were more friendly to them and stayed out of their bullshit wars, they might even lower the price. The USA should worry about and protect the USA, period.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

I think we should stop worrying about Israel and let them fend for themselves.....
the us has always depended on its various alliances. to turn our backs on our only ally in the middle east would be not only foolish but nearly suicidal in an age where weapons technologies are traded like baseball cards. if america wishes to maintain any standing in the area, it cannot depend solely on its few semi-friendly arab contacts. abandoning israel to its isolated status as the non muslim state in the middle east would probably lead to even more open conflicts in the area than we already have.


The oil rich Arabs have to sell their oil somewhere. If we were more friendly to them and stayed out of their bullshit wars, they might even lower the price....
this sounds like the naive "if we play nice, they'll play nice" garbage that the "peace at any cost" crowd always seems to pull out when they have nothing constructive to add to the discussion. as long as the west is dependent on middle-eastern oil there will be an american presence of some kind there and as long as there is an american presence in the area there will be those who see that presence as a threat. until the us weans itself of arabian oil or the hardliners of the area calm down their xenophobic tendencies, there will be no solutions and very little peace.

[medicinal]

the us has always depended on its various alliances. to turn our backs on our only ally in the middle east would be not only foolish but nearly suicidal in an age where weapons technologies are traded like baseball cards. if america wishes to maintain any standing in the area, it cannot depend solely on its few semi-friendly arab contacts. abandoning israel to its isolated status as the non muslim state in the middle east would probably lead to even more open conflicts in the area than we already have.


this sounds like the naive "if we play nice, they'll play nice" garbage that the "peace at any cost" crowd always seems to pull out when they have nothing constructive to add to the discussion. as long as the west is dependent on middle-eastern oil there will be an american presence of some kind there and as long as there is an american presence in the area there will be those who see that presence as a threat. until the us weans itself of arabian oil or the hardliners of the area calm down their xenophobic tendencies, there will be no solutions and very little peace.

The naive peace at any cost crowd eh. Believe me I have some comebacks for that but it would get me thrown off the site. I think your insulting way of debating says way more than your remarks. Who made you the ultimate intelligence here? So someone with a different opinion is a naive peacenik. Be glad I want to remain a member of this site or I'd tear you a new one.

[Mississippi Steve]

Its not the country that has 200 nuke missles, but the terrorist/insurgent cell that has ONE nuke that scares the hell out of me.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

The naive peace at any cost crowd eh. Believe me I have some comebacks for that but it would get me thrown off the site. I think your insulting way of debating says way more than your remarks. Who made you the ultimate intelligence here? So someone with a different opinion is a naive peacenik. Be glad I want to remain a member of this site or I'd tear you a new one.

i don't know about you, but most folks i know would consider it naive to believe that this world is a rational place. history has taught us that kindness is seldom met with kindness in return. governments and their related organizations constantly spew propaganda and hatred, nations vie with their neighbors for the slightest edge and the people are never given more than a small glimpse of the truth. peace is fleeting and honesty is nearly nonexistent.

please try to remember that my opinions are only based on a mere half century of observation and the historical half-truths that have been handed down by the victors. my anger is aimed solely at those who have betrayed us all from both sides of the aisle and i intend no insult to my opponents in these intellectual exercises. relax, take another toke and we can start the fun again tomorrow.
:hippy:

[Torog]

the us has always depended on its various alliances. to turn our backs on our only ally in the middle east would be not only foolish but nearly suicidal in an age where weapons technologies are traded like baseball cards. if america wishes to maintain any standing in the area, it cannot depend solely on its few semi-friendly arab contacts. abandoning israel to its isolated status as the non muslim state in the middle east would probably lead to even more open conflicts in the area than we already have.


this sounds like the naive "if we play nice, they'll play nice" garbage that the "peace at any cost" crowd always seems to pull out when they have nothing constructive to add to the discussion. as long as the west is dependent on middle-eastern oil there will be an american presence of some kind there and as long as there is an american presence in the area there will be those who see that presence as a threat. until the us weans itself of arabian oil or the hardliners of the area calm down their xenophobic tendencies, there will be no solutions and very little peace.

Howdy delusions,

Yer reply to medicinal,was right on target,and I doubt if I could have said it better-thanx ! :thumbsup:

What the anti-wars and the isolationists don't seem to grasp,is that this is boiling down to a fight for the very survival of the Free World..and that what happens in the rest of the world,does impact us,here in America and our allies too.

Another thing that many peaceniks are in denial of,is the dedication that muslim-arabs have in regards to fulfilling the command of the koran to wipe out Israel and murder all Jews there and everywhere else they are to be found in the world. The koran also orders the destruction of all non-muslim goverments,but during WW2,the muslim-jihadists worked with hitler and rommel,in North Africa,to hunt down and murder Jews..their goals were congruent.

As badly as the peaceniks don't want anyone to set off any nukes,why are they willing to put Israel in a position where they have no choice but to use nukes ?

And then,there's Taiwan..they are a thriving democracy as well and have contributed much in the way of scientific achievement,yet the peaceniks would have us abandon them to the commie chinese.

Have a good one ! :)

[medicinal]

Howdy delusions,

Yer reply to medicinal,was right on target,and I doubt if I could have said it better-thanx ! :thumbsup:

What the anti-wars and the isolationists don't seem to grasp,is that this is boiling down to a fight for the very survival of the Free World..and that what happens in the rest of the world,does impact us,here in America and our allies too.

Another thing that many peaceniks are in denial of,is the dedication that muslim-arabs have in regards to fulfilling the command of the koran to wipe out Israel and murder all Jews there and everywhere else they are to be found in the world. The koran also orders the destruction of all non-muslim goverments,but during WW2,the muslim-jihadists worked with hitler and rommel,in North Africa,to hunt down and murder Jews..their goals were congruent.

As badly as the peaceniks don't want anyone to set off any nukes,why are they willing to put Israel in a position where they have no choice but to use nukes ?

And then,there's Taiwan..they are a thriving democracy as well and have contributed much in the way of scientific achievement,yet the peaceniks would have us abandon them to the commie chinese.

Have a good one ! :)

Look, you warmongers have never given peace a chance. The first sign of animosity towards our fucked up foriegn policy and it's lets bomb their asses. If we had some foriegn policy makers with a peace mission instead of a lets rape and pillage their natural resourses, maybe we wouldn't be so hated throughout the world. Even our old allies in Europe have abandonded us because of our waring tendecies. If the whole fucking world hates us, who is in the wrong. Are we Vain enough to think the world is wrong and we are right, how insane is that? We are but 5-6% of the worlds population, so you're saying that 95% of the worlds population is wrong, I believe you're delusional. We need to put this country on a peacemaking path with ambassadors to every country with a major apology for past behavior and become a part of the world community instead of trying to own it.

[eg420ne]

Look, you warmongers have never given peace a chance. The first sign of animosity towards our fucked up foriegn policy and it's lets bomb their asses. If we had some foriegn policy makers with a peace mission instead of a lets rape and pillage their natural resourses, maybe we wouldn't be so hated throughout the world. Even our old allies in Europe have abandonded us because of our waring tendecies. If the whole fucking world hates us, who is in the wrong. Are we Vain enough to think the world is wrong and we are right, how insane is that? We are but 5-6% of the worlds population, so you're saying that 95% of the worlds population is wrong, I believe you're delusional. We need to put this country on a peacemaking path with ambassadors to every country with a major apology for past behavior and become a part of the world community instead of trying to own it.
Well Said, Med...its the most sane post yet:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[PharmaCan]

And then,there's Taiwan..they are a thriving democracy as well and have contributed much in the way of scientific achievement,yet the peaceniks would have us abandon them to the commie chinese.


Just exactly how long has Taiwan been a "thriving democracy"? Do you know? More than 20 years? Fewer than 20 years? Come on, take a guess. During the majority of the time that we have supported Taiwan, have they been a democracy or a dictatorship?

Is the PRC still communist (other than just in name - you know, kinda like how we pretend that the USA is a constitutional federation)? Does the PRC have elections? Have you been to China recently (or ever) to witness for yourself the kind of country it is?

Then there's the Palestinians. They have a democratically elected government. Accordingly, I'm sure you must approve of Hamas, "democracy" seemingly being your one and only criteria for approval.

Then there's Iraq. Woohoo - giving those savages a say in how they are ruled sure worked out well, didn't it?

The world is not quite as simple as you make it out.

JMO

PC :smokin:

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Look, you warmongers have never given peace a chance. The first sign of animosity towards our fucked up foriegn policy and it's lets bomb their asses. If we had some foreign policy makers with a peace mission instead of a lets rape and pillage their natural resources, maybe we wouldn't be so hated throughout the world. Even our old allies in Europe have abandoned us because of our waring tendencies. If the whole fucking world hates us, who is in the wrong. Are we Vain enough to think the world is wrong and we are right, how insane is that? We are but 5-6% of the worlds population, so you're saying that 95% of the worlds population is wrong, I believe you're delusional. We need to put this country on a peacemaking path with ambassadors to every country with a major apology for past behavior and become a part of the world community instead of trying to own it.
i always find it somewhat amusing when the us is declared the cause of all the world's woes. aside from our cold war fiascos in korea and vietnam, most of the american interventions of late have been at the pleading insistence of the international community. it is hard to tell whether our role as the police force of the world is a result of our own hubris or if it has been thrust upon us by a world unwilling to deal with its own warlike tendencies. then, when we are attacked and react as any threatened nation would, we suddenly become the aggressor. a step to far in our retaliation and an aggressive stance in our backing of un resolutions, suddenly our european allies (?) consider theirs to be the moral high ground.

oh what grand allies they are. let's take germany as an example of these bosom buddies. a country which spent a good deal of the last century attempting world domination and even more licking its wounds and suckling at the teat of american reconstruction efforts. perhaps you mean our pals the french, famed for their fine cuisine, their great cultural accomplishments and their historical tendency toward collaboration with any enemy that overwhelms their delicate sensibilities. yes the french, whose latest aspirations seem to center around being the arms merchant of choice to anyone with two francs to rub together. it's sad to say, but for a major player such as the us friends are few and far between and more difficult to keep than to make.

is that supposed 95% of the world wrong? not entirely. america's sins are many, but the same can be said of any major power throughout history. any nation seeks to thrive and grow. what can be said for the us is that for the most part their efforts have been through cultural and economic influence instead of at gun point. instead of colonization and the suppression of the indigenous population, there is usually an effort to aid in the utilization of resources (at a profit of course, altruism is best left to philanthropists and fools) and in most cases this leads to a corresponding rise in the standard of living. call it rape and pillage if you wish (that sounds politically correct and you can probably get away with it), but those resources will be exploited and if the us wishes to pour billions of dollars into an area to create the infrastructure (which will probably be nationalized in a couple of years anyway) shouldn't they be eligible for some of the resulting profits?

in conclusion i would like you to consider the repercussions of any apology. whether you want to admit it or not, this is a world where weakness is taken advantage of. nations and peoples spend a great deal of time and effort hiding their weaknesses from their neighbors, attempting to appear healthy and strong in order to keep from being preyed upon. i don't even want to consider the chaos that would result if a world power were to grovel at the world's feet and beg for forgiveness. the economic fallout alone would most likely be catastrophic. this is reality, welcome.

[medicinal]

but those resources will be exploited and if the us wishes to pour billions of dollars into an area to create the infrastructure (which will probably be nationalized in a couple of years anyway) shouldn't they be eligible for some of the resulting profits?
You seem to lump us the taxpayers with them the corporations in this gem of an explanation for why we the taxpayers should pay to build the resources necessary for the corporations to reap the profits. Anytime the US goes into a country and sets up shop, it is with taxpayer money, when the spoils come out, it is the corporations that benefit. Why should that make me happy. I'd much rather see that money spent on our citizens for health care and infrastructure.

[medicinal]

i don't even want to consider the chaos that would result if a world power were to grovel at the world's feet and beg for forgiveness. the economic fallout alone would most likely be catastrophic. this is reality, welcome.
Who said anything about groveling? To explain to the world that there were some crazy assholes in charge of our foriegn policy before with nothing but greed in their hearts but now we were going to try and change this, would this take away from our recognized power? I doubt it. The world still knows the power behind our country. The fact that we were trying to be diplomatic instead of bullying our way would go a long way towards promoting peace on the planet. I'm pretty sure we could be compassionate and strong. Look at how the world loved Bill Clinton, he used to get standing ovations in all countries. Bush goes to a country and they have riots in the streets. There is a strong position from which we could operate and be more friendly to the world, it would just take smarter people than we've had leading us for the past 6-1/2 years.

[andruejaysin]

As badly as the peaceniks don't want anyone to set off any nukes,why are they willing to put Israel in a position where they have no choice but to use nukes ?

! :)Wrong, I support a US nucleur attack on israel if they refuse to to disarm.

[PharmaCan]

Wrong, I support a US nucleur attack on israel if they refuse to to disarm.

At the risk of another violation, I feel compelled to say that you sound like a real fucking anti-semite and, although I'm agnostic, I sincerely hope there is a special hell for people like you!

PC :S4:

[eg420ne]

damn! my backspace button on fire.....israel should disarm for peace to ooccur---------:S1: awww nevermind

[delusionsofNORMALity]

damn! my backspace button on fire.....israel should disarm for peace to occur---------:S1: awww nevermind

:S2::S2::S2::S2::S2:
i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and believing that that comment was meant sarcastically. otherwise i would have no other choice than to assert that this is one of the most absurd statements i have ever seen on these boards.

[eg420ne]

sarcasm at its worst:)