Ambassador sees fear in Iraq, says U.S. troops must stay

[Psycho4Bud]

(AXcess News) Washington - U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker, testifying via video conference from Baghdad Thursday, told a Senate Foreign Relations Committee Hearing that "fear" is the one word he would use to describe the atmosphere in Iraq.

Committee Chairman Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., called on Crocker to deliver an assessment of the situation on the ground in Iraq that focused on the political situation.

"If there's one word I would use to sum up the atmosphere in Iraq, on the streets, in the countryside, in the neighborhoods and at national level, that word would be â??fear,'" said Crocker, who has been in Iraq for a little less than four months. "For Iraq to move forward at any level, that fear is going to have to be replaced by some level of trust and confidence, and that is what the effort at the national level is about."

Earlier in the day, Crocker and the U.S military commander in Iraq Gen. David Petraeus briefed members of Congress on a video link at the Pentagon.

Crocker warned the Senate committee against troop removal and said President Bush's surge is just now beginning to produce results, especially in curbing sectarian violence in Baghdad.

"There has been some return to normal life," Crocker said, "But we need to stay long enough so that we don't spiral down into that violence that put us here in the first place."

The ambassador also cautioned against legislative benchmarks. Crocker said benchmarks are a useful metric, but they are unable to calculate Iraqis' attitudes about each other and their willingness to work toward political reconciliation.

Congress asked the White House earlier this year to report on what progress has been made in 18 political, economic and security areas in Iraq. The Bush administration told Congress last week that there has been mixed success in achieving these benchmarks. A more detailed report is due in mid-September.
Ambassador sees fear in Iraq, says U.S. troops must stay (http://www.axcessnews.com/index.php/articles/show/id/11675)

The senate approved Gen. David Petraeus with a unanimous vote. He was and is pro-surge.......why approve a man and then pull the rug out from under him?

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

What about the fear in every mothers heart that her son or daughter may come home in a box or missing body parts, the fear in every son or daughter, every sister or brother of every US soldier, Marine or military person in Iraq. Do those fears count as much as the fear of the Iraqis?

[Mississippi Steve]

What about the fear in every mothers heart that her son or daughter may come home in a box or missing body parts, the fear in every son or daughter, every sister or brother of every US soldier, Marine or military person in Iraq. Do those fears count as much as the fear of the Iraqis?

You forgetting a couple of things....First, its an all volenteer military. They are there by choice. Second, there are 100s of people killed by drunk drivers to every 1 that is killed in Iraq. They are *SAFER* in a combat zone than on the public streets here.

[Krogith]

You forgetting a couple of things....First, its an all volenteer military. They are there by choice. Second, there are 100s of people killed by drunk drivers to every 1 that is killed in Iraq. They are *SAFER* in a combat zone than on the public streets here.

WoW is all i Can say.
This is a A+ for our Media for doing exactly what there Paid For^
Look what sheeple they make.

There are going to be just enouf Sheeple to let it happen thats what is sad. There to bizzy to look into it. There perfectly part of the system.
Humans could Never Rule Themself.

[Mississippi Steve]

WoW is all i Can say.
This is a A+ for our Media for doing exactly what there Paid For^
Look what sheeple they make.

There are going to be just enouf Sheeple to let it happen thats what is sad. There to bizzy to look into it. There perfectly part of the system.
Humans could Never Rule Themself.

Thats what the left wing, liberal media wants you to believe. Don't condemn the soldiers unless you have walked a mile in their boots. They are there because they *WANT* to be. All the media cares about are sensationalism and ratings. They could give a rats ass about the truth.

[MajMike]

About ten minutes spent researching MS Steve's statistical comments will show they are absolutely correct, 'sheeple' to me are the folks who won't find out the truth for themselves or act upon it once found.

Sometimes the facts support the position, sometimes they don't, the point is to ALWAYS verify for yourself BEFORE you attack others in error. Of course, we've all made that mistake at one time or another, but that is how we learn.

MS Steve

I was born in Kosciusko, and grew up in mid-Mississippi (Winona mostly). Where are you at/from?

[medicinal]

You forgetting a couple of things....First, its an all volenteer military. They are there by choice. Second, there are 100s of people killed by drunk drivers to every 1 that is killed in Iraq. They are *SAFER* in a combat zone than on the public streets here.

Well, if it's such a cakewalk in Iraq and I guess you have no-one that would care if you died or were maimed, why don't you volunteer for Iraq. I'm sure every mothers son volunteered to go to Iraq and patrol for IEDs, You've missed the point, but that is typical of people with your mindset.

[Mississippi Steve]

About ten minutes spent researching MS Steve's statistical comments will show they are absolutely correct, 'sheeple' to me are the folks who won't find out the truth for themselves or act upon it once found.

Sometimes the facts support the position, sometimes they don't, the point is to ALWAYS verify for yourself BEFORE you attack others in error. Of course, we've all made that mistake at one time or another, but that is how we learn.

MS Steve

I was born in Kosciusko, and grew up in mid-Mississippi (Winona mostly). Where are you at/from?

Hattiesburg area

[delusionsofNORMALity]

I'm sure every mothers son volunteered to go to Iraq and patrol for IEDs....
though no one wants to come home in a body bag, that was always a possibility and everyone knew it when they signed on the dotted line. mourning our fallen soldiers is one thing, but calling them innocent victims is an outright lie and dishonors their sacrifice.

[Mississippi Steve]

Well, if it's such a cakewalk in Iraq and I guess you have no-one that would care if you died or were maimed, why don't you volunteer for Iraq. I'm sure every mothers son volunteered to go to Iraq and patrol for IEDs, You've missed the point, but that is typical of people with your mindset.

As was previously stated, you haven't done your homework. I served in the military for 22 years. I retired from active duty in '96 and have been a business owner since then, providing employment and a paycheck to some of those who don't understand the sacrifices that have been made so that they may voice their uninformed opinions without fear of retribution. When 9/11 came along, I volenteered for recall to active duty(even though I couldn't afford the pay cut) for 2 reasons... First, because its the right thing to do, Second, because I have qualifications and certifications that were in very high demand(Mechanical Engineer and HAZMAT Technician Specialist).
The only reason they couldn't take me was because I couldn't pass the physical....something about back surgery.

I have earned my "mindset", and it has come at a very high price.

FWIW, In 1977, I came back from a 1 year overseas deployment, I flew into SFO. We were required to travel in uniform... When I got off the plane I got spit on just because I was in uniform. They didn't care what branch of the military, just that I was in uniform.
You can be just as ignorant as you want, hundreds of thousands of people like me have made sacrifices so you have that freedom.

[medicinal]

As was previously stated, you haven't done your homework. I served in the military for 22 years. I retired from active duty in '96 and have been a business owner since then, providing employment and a paycheck to some of those who don't understand the sacrifices that have been made so that they may voice their uninformed opinions without fear of retribution. When 9/11 came along, I volenteered for recall to active duty(even though I couldn't afford the pay cut) for 2 reasons... First, because its the right thing to do, Second, because I have qualifications and certifications that were in very high demand(Mechanical Engineer and HAZMAT Technician Specialist).
The only reason they couldn't take me was because I couldn't pass the physical....something about back surgery.

I have earned my "mindset", and it has come at a very high price.

FWIW, In 1977, I came back from a 1 year overseas deployment, I flew into SFO. We were required to travel in uniform... When I got off the plane I got spit on just because I was in uniform. They didn't care what branch of the military, just that I was in uniform.
You can be just as ignorant as you want, hundreds of thousands of people like me have made sacrifices so you have that freedom.

Me- Viet Nam Vet, Draft casualty. I certainly wasn't stupid enough to volunteer to go to a war zone for assholes like standard oil that thought there was a huge oil deposit in the Mekong delta, and these "volunteers you talk about are a large portion of reservists and National Guard that would never have volunteered to go on IED patrol. This "we volunteered" bullshit is left for the few egomaniacs that joined the rangers or special forces. People that will never fit into a peaceful society. These are the same dudes that used to play football and pick on the less physical among them, I remember those jerks, so stop with your patriotic gibberish and face the facts: outside of a few Idiots. every one of those troops would like to come home, fuck the mission, and speaking of that, "the mission" outside of trying to stay alive, what the fuck is it. Don't give me that crap about trying to save Iraqis, we've killed over a hundred thousand and counting. The "Mission" is trying to secure the oil reserves for the oil barrons and if you can't see this then you may be retarded.

[Mississippi Steve]

Come on down here, and hang out at Camp Shelby for a while.... this is where our soldiers get there training before going to Iraq, and Afghanistan, most on their second or third tour.
Don't believe me......talk to these guys and ladies. Hear it from their own mouths for yourself.....or you can believe what you see on the likes of CNN.

As far as the oil monopoly, The biggest problem I have is that they artificially inflate the cost of gasoline/fuel/oil even though they are making the highest profits EVER. I also have a problem with non action by the government to do anything about it, OTOH, the govt has no incentive to do anything about it because they are getting 30 cents on the dollar in taxes. How many tens of millions of fuel/gasoline are being sold every day at $3.00/gallon???
But that fodder for another thread.

[MajMike]

I have been to the desert several times, and talk regularly to troops going back and forth. The vast majority of them do believe in the mission, although none of them have blinders on regarding the oil issue or the dangerous nature of their work.

Their biggest complaint is the lack of rest/time between deployments, and in that they are justified. The other complaint (also justified) is lack of specialized equipment and training for IED's, including the new armored vehicles (which I just saw they are finally ordering more of, 20,000 I think) and advanced body armor.

Note: I thing 'oil' should be declared a national asset and profits should be limited just as they are with many utility companies today. Their 'record' profits of the last few years are obscene, given the ever-growing death toll.

[Psycho4Bud]

I had the opportunity to sit down and chat with a 24 yr. old Marine at the bar last night. Just got back from Iraq and was also involved in the Fallujah mission. This dude told me quite a bit about our troops feelings....from the aspect of his area of service of couse.

His biggest piss off was our press. His exact words were,"The press were disrespecting the troops there and not telling of the things that they were accomplishing." May not be word for word but damn close. He also stated something on the order that our Congress and Senate are currently acting like cheerleaders for the enemy.

Out of a sign of respect I bought a few rounds of shots for my new friend and fired up a fatty with him and his friend....good thing his girlfriend was with, I don't think that they were used to "higher grades"... LOL. This dude has shrapnel scars, a machete scar on his arm and he's going to reinlist in another week.

Have a good one!:s4:

[rebgirl420]

^Like my brother who is a sergent of infantry. He knew the risks when signing up when he was 18, fresh out of school. He too hates how the liberal media does nothing but kiss the asses of the enemies there. He especially hated the phrase that "the war was already lost". He too is going right back. He's been to Afghanistan and Iraq. He trains in camp Lejune too.

[TallCoolOne]

The US Amabassador, who works for the US Goverment who wants the US to stay in a war. Gee, the Ambassador said he thinks the troops should stay?

[medicinal]

Having spent three years in the military, I know a little about the hype they are fed on a daily basis. There is the civilian news (Skewed by right wing nut joibs) and the Military news (Extremely skewed By right wing nut jobs) they hammer an Idea into your head untill you finally believe it. They take a young person (18-25) when they are at their most formative years of adult thinking and Brainwash them in their skewed beliefs, IE the military is always right even when it's wrong. To take a soldiers view about the war is very misleading as they are taught to think as a unit. What is good for the Army is good for the unit. what is good for the unit is good for you. They have seen the worst and don't want to think it was in vain. It was. We need to bring them home and de-brief them with a prolonged de-briefing into civilian life, something I think some of these people posting on this site never recieved. For example: I was in Germany when the Cuban missle standoff was going on. We were never informed of this and I never even knew of this untill I rotated back to the states. they completely covered this up

[medicinal]

I had the opportunity to sit down and chat with a 24 yr. old Marine at the bar last night. Just got back from Iraq and was also involved in the Fallujah mission. This dude told me quite a bit about our troops feelings....from the aspect of his area of service of couse.

His biggest piss off was our press. His exact words were,"The press were disrespecting the troops there and not telling of the things that they were accomplishing." May not be word for word but damn close. He also stated something on the order that our Congress and Senate are currently acting like cheerleaders for the enemy.

Out of a sign of respect I bought a few rounds of shots for my new friend and fired up a fatty with him and his friend....good thing his girlfriend was with, I don't think that they were used to "higher grades"... LOL. This dude has shrapnel scars, a machete scar on his arm and he's going to reinlist in another week.

Have a good one!:s4:

You go to a Bar, blasphemous. I had more respect for you~LOL~. If you've ever been in the military you should know they are subject to much more Brainwash than the average citizen, and we've been brainwashed since Kindergarden. It is the free thinking that I so love on these sites, and the brainwash that I so abhor.

[BoilerUp]

Having spent three years in the military, I know a little about the hype they are fed on a daily basis. There is the civilian news (Skewed by right wing nut joibs) and the Military news (Extremely skewed By right wing nut jobs) they hammer an Idea into your head untill you finally believe it. They take a young person (18-25) when they are at their most formative years of adult thinking and Brainwash them in their skewed beliefs, IE the military is always right even when it's wrong. To take a soldiers view about the war is very misleading as they are taught to think as a unit. What is good for the Army is good for the unit. what is good for the unit is good for you. They have seen the worst and don't want to think it was in vain. It was. We need to bring them home and de-brief them with a prolonged de-briefing into civilian life, something I think some of these people posting on this site never recieved. For example: I was in Germany when the Cuban missle standoff was going on. We were never informed of this and I never even knew of this untill I rotated back to the states. they completely covered this up

*In Family Feud Voice* Good Answer, Good Answer!

[Thepossumdance]

umm if im not mistaken it seems as though the ambassador has in fact contradicted the image our administration is trying to forward... it seems to me if we have fought this hard for so long... and our troops have already sacraficed this much... but the only emotion in Iraq is still overwhelming fear... then it seems we havent accomplished much... besides creating a wonderful training ground for terrorists... we should just redeploy in Afganistan, finish everything we wanted to get done over there and then just tell the middle east to suck it and leave... doesnt anyone else miss a government that feels somewhat limited by basic morality and common sense? obviously i have no idea what is going on in Iraq right now I only know what the news tells me... but if the troops really are getting a lot accomplished it seems our ambassador is seriously disrespecting them

also trying to create one unified iraq is such a fucking stupid idea... split it 3 ways... just because religious groups tolerate each other over here for the most part doesnt mean we can make it work over there... they fucking hate each other even more than they hate us... (btw thats a lot) its arrogant to think that if we stay long enough and kill enough people that its just gonna "work" one day...

[PharmaCan]

also trying to create one unified iraq is such a fucking stupid idea... split it 3 ways... just because religious groups tolerate each other over here for the most part doesnt mean we can make it work over there... they fucking hate each other even more than they hate us... (btw thats a lot) its arrogant to think that if we stay long enough and kill enough people that its just gonna "work" one day...

This is one of the more astute observations on this thread. Great Britain created Iraq - it was never a country or kingdom like Iran or Saudi Arabia. Look how well the Kurds are doing, just being left alone except for having been protected from the other "Iraqi's" for almost 20 years.

PC :smokin:

[Psycho4Bud]

To take a soldiers view about the war is very misleading as they are taught to think as a unit.

Is this another John Kerry joke?

Have a good one!:s4:

[medicinal]

Is this another John Kerry joke?

Have a good one!:s4:

Absolutely not, It's called objective reasoning, from experience. If you had been in the military, you would know exactly what I meant. Military think is all about the military. They tell you right up front that you are property of the government. Different laws apply to you, and you can be tried for treason for thinking like a civilian and expressing it. What information that they do not give you, does not apply to you. Have you heard Of GI. That stands for Government Issue and they mean it. It took me a few months to regain my senses when I got out and I was a rebel. I never fell for the brainwash, I just realized it for what it was and avoided the consequences. From the moment the reality of Basic training hit me untill the day I walked out that gate, I hated the military and what they stood for. Taking the cream of America and turning them into pawns for politicians and their wicked ways, cannon fodder for the rich. We're told from kindergarden on how all these brave soldiers died so we can be free, what a load of crap. they died so politicians and corporations could feather their nests. Outside of WWII, which had it's own sinister reasons, every war since that's been fought by the USA has been for economic gain by the elites. So when a soldier gives you his opinion, you must sort through the military rhetoric before you make a judgement call.

[MajMike]

Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but it seems you are saying that if the troops agree with you they are correct, and if they don't they've been brainwashed?

Also, forgive me if I say three years as a grunt doesn't really give you any perspective on the military as a whole. Everybody knows the grunts life sucks, it's always been that way and technology isn't going to change that.

Lastly, many people had good experiences with the military, as I did despite my combat wounds and eventual disability from them. In fact, those days on the edge were some of the best of my life, primarily because of the relationships formed then. I'm closer to some of those men than my own brother, and damn proud to have been beside them.

Peace. MajorMike

Note: I advise you to be careful when addressing issues for which you feel 'hatred', don't let your passion subdue reason. Take twice as long to choose your words, and you'll have reason to retract fewer of them. I say this truly to all of us, including reminding myself.

[Dutch Pimp]

Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but it seems you are saying that if the troops agree with you they are correct, and if they don't they've been brainwashed?

Also, forgive me if I say three years as a grunt doesn't really give you any perspective on the military as a whole. Everybody knows the grunts life sucks, it's always been that way and technology isn't going to change that.

Lastly, many people had good experiences with the military, as I did despite my combat wounds and eventual disability from them. In fact, those days on the edge were some of the best of my life, primarily because of the relationships formed then. I'm closer to some of those men than my own brother, and damn proud to have been beside them.

Peace. MajorMike

Note: I advise you to be careful when addressing issues for which you feel 'hatred', don't let your passion subdue reason. Take twice as long to choose your words, and you'll have reason to retract fewer of them. I say this truly to all of us, including reminding myself.

....so ...what your're saying is grunts can't see things as a whole?...Major Air Force?...sir...:wtf:...

[MajMike]

I didn't mean that grunts couldn't understand/figure out what is really happening. What I meant was that they only see a small portion of the overall operation of the military (excluding the many non-coms who actually run the military), and specifically I was referring to medicinal's short 3 yr stint as too little for him to have a chance to see the other side.

My Dad is a retired Army National Guard Sergeant Major, my Uncle was a retired Navy Chief Petty Officer, and I worked my way through college in the Army Guard as a forward observer (13F/13E, made Spec 4 just before getting out). I have nothing but respect for our enlisted folks, and owe all my successes as an officer to them.

Peace.


p.s. I saw your CFMB, kudo's to another medic (got mine in '96).

[Dutch Pimp]

..you are probably right...E-4's have a limited view of things overall....:thumbsup:...(two years was plenty, for me) :hippy:

but what they see is crystal clear....peace, MajMike

"Conserve the Fighting Strenght"

[medicinal]

Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but it seems you are saying that if the troops agree with you they are correct, and if they don't they've been brainwashed?

Also, forgive me if I say three years as a grunt doesn't really give you any perspective on the military as a whole. Everybody knows the grunts life sucks, it's always been that way and technology isn't going to change that.

Lastly, many people had good experiences with the military, as I did despite my combat wounds and eventual disability from them. In fact, those days on the edge were some of the best of my life, primarily because of the relationships formed then. I'm closer to some of those men than my own brother, and damn proud to have been beside them.

Peace. MajorMike

Note: I advise you to be careful when addressing issues for which you feel 'hatred', don't let your passion subdue reason. Take twice as long to choose your words, and you'll have reason to retract fewer of them. I say this truly to all of us, including reminding myself.

So us grunts don't deserve an opinion! Well, thats exactly the way the army treated me, cannon fodder and shut the fuck up. At least now I'm free to tell assholes what I really think. It was officers like you that sent the "grunts" to their deaths, I wonder how much that bothered you. I'd say with your disrespect for "grunts" they were no more than numbers on your charts. Every life lost in war is as precious as yours, just because you think you are better than a "grunt", your life is worth not one penny more. The elitest attitudes of officers always pissed me off. I saw maybe a half dozen officers in my three years that I would follow, real good men, the rest, I wouldn't of pissed on them if they were on fire.

[MajMike]

Did you even read the other posts, where I discussed my own stint as a grunt and my respect for them to this day?

I think you hear what you want to hear. You are one who said that whoever didn't agree with you was 'brainwashed', I merely pointed out the fallacy in that.

You seem to think you know everything about the military after a short three years, but if you really did you would have to recognize that people can differ in opinion without being 'brainwashed' by the opposition.

There are some poor officers in the military, just as there are poor performers in every large organization, but the idea that they all suck is just as bad as the idea that they are all perfect.

Caveat: I can understand your opinion better if it was about the military of your experience, a draft heavy group sent to fight a shitty war overseas. The Army was so fucked up then I share your thoughts about the officers they sent to you, and the politics of the 'Nam made the grunts already shitty life even worse.

But, today's military is very different, even if a shitty overseas war is on again and the Army is stretched thin. I spent more time in combat zones than you spent in the military, and I've worked at every level up to and including the Pentagon (left 1 month before 911, lost friends there too). Despite this, I recognize that I don't know everything about the military, or even the Air Force for that matter (PJ/CSAR).

Lastly, let me reiterate, you definitely have the right to your opinion and your viewpoint is as valid as mine. All I'm saying is that extreme views no matter what the perspective are usually wrong, or at least not well balanced (see our politicians).

Whatever our differences, I'm glad you made it here for us to discuss them. To another survivor I say, welcome home brother.

[medicinal]

Did you even read the other posts, where I discussed my own stint as a grunt and my respect for them to this day?

I think you hear what you want to hear. You are one who said that whoever didn't agree with you was 'brainwashed', I merely pointed out the fallacy in that.

You seem to think you know everything about the military after a short three years, but if you really did you would have to recognize that people can differ in opinion without being 'brainwashed' by the opposition.

There are some poor officers in the military, just as there are poor performers in every large organization, but the idea that they all suck is just as bad as the idea that they are all perfect.

Caveat: I can understand your opinion better if it was about the military of your experience, a draft heavy group sent to fight a shitty war overseas. The Army was so fucked up then I share your thoughts about the officers they sent to you, and the politics of the 'Nam made the grunts already shitty life even worse.

But, today's military is very different, even if a shitty overseas war is on again and the Army is stretched thin. I spent more time in combat zones than you spent in the military, and I've worked at every level up to and including the Pentagon (left 1 month before 911, lost friends there too). Despite this, I recognize that I don't know everything about the military, or even the Air Force for that matter (PJ/CSAR).

Lastly, let me reiterate, you definitely have the right to your opinion and your viewpoint is as valid as mine. All I'm saying is that extreme views no matter what the perspective are usually wrong, or at least not well balanced (see our politicians).

Whatever our differences, I'm glad you made it here for us to discuss them. To another survivor I say, welcome home brother.

Thank you, thank you very much. Maybe had I known you, I'd have known 7 good officers. Most of the ones I came in contact with were shitheads. I drove a sedan at 7th army headquarters for a while, so I got to drive a lot of officers. Mostly majors and colonels, with a few captains thrown in. I also drove a few 1 star generals and General Clark once. There were a couple of times that they treated me like an equal, but generally speaking it was the hey private thing, shut up and drive. I had one major thet was a good old boy, came up through the ranks in Korea. He respected EMs. He invited me to eat with him and hang out at the bars, that guy could drink. we'd both get in that sedan shitfaced to the max and head for the barracks. Of course he went to the officers quarters and I to the enlisted barracks, but he was a real character.

[Mississippi Steve]

Thank you, thank you very much. Maybe had I known you, I'd have known 7 good officers. Most of the ones I came in contact with were shitheads. I drove a sedan at 7th army headquarters for a while, so I got to drive a lot of officers. Mostly majors and colonels, with a few captains thrown in. I also drove a few 1 star generals and General Clark once. There were a couple of times that they treated me like an equal, but generally speaking it was the hey private thing, shut up and drive. I had one major thet was a good old boy, came up through the ranks in Korea. He respected EMs. He invited me to eat with him and hang out at the bars, that guy could drink. we'd both get in that sedan shitfaced to the max and head for the barracks. Of course he went to the officers quarters and I to the enlisted barracks, but he was a real character.


FWIW, the best officers I ever had the pleasure of working with/for were mustangs, or warrents. The best was a CWO4 that was my CO at a SAR station(search and rescue)... he had been in so long, that Admiral Gracey (then comdt of the coast guard) had worked for him as a seaman when the warrent was a 3rd class.
The worst officers were the snot nosed kids where mommy and daddy bought their way into the academy.